What do you think?
In one hand I'm curious about who BL me(well, maybe not who but more why, for self-improvement). On the other hand chaos could fall upon us! We can't never truly know people's intention!
Most of us BL people that are rulebreakers and I'm fine at some level with it, but others BL for personal reasons (different opinions, dislike the person in general, etc.) and don't say a word about it (why would they?). What do I want to say with all this: it will destroy SG community as we know it.
If you love this community as much as I do, please, don't make it public.
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Good work with the bot.
The blacklists should work both ways anyway, when you blacklist someone you should be preventing yourself from entering his/her giveaways. There are people who try to blacklist everyone except their friends and that's a way of cheating the system imo
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I'm glad somebody else noticed it as well. Thanks Willie!
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The majority of the giveaways have less than 1000 entries and it's mostly the same people entering over and over again. If they're creating a giveaway for a highly sought after game they'll create a group giveaway instead. It increases the chances dramatically for their friends either way. This problem arose with group giveaways, it's the circle of regifting all over again from my pov. I can't think of any logic reason for the blacklists not to work both ways
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Yes, blacklists should work both ways, but doesn't the 'except their friends' thing apply much more to group giveaways? I don't really understand how blacklisting 1,000 out of 828,801 users would actually limit giveaways to your friends...
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"The majority of the giveaways have less than 1000 entries and it's mostly the same people entering over and over again".
I've never seen a giveaway with 828801 entries...
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http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/JR9Hk/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain -> 1,000 out of 4,701
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/jQNvu/call-of-duty-ghosts -> 1,000 out of 2,452
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/dp69p/rocket-league -> 1,000 out of 3,183
Maybe you understand my point now? Blacklisting 1,000 people here is not a working way to limit your giveaways to your friends only. Creating a group/whitelist giveaway on the other hand is.
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"If they're creating a giveaway for a highly sought after game they'll create a group giveaway instead. It increases the chances dramatically for their friends either way,"
OFC they can't limit their giveaways to their friends with just blacklists but they can surely improve their friends' chances dramatically. Correct me if I'm wrong but you can't have a group of 5 friends gifting games between themselves ad aeternum. That's against the rules afaik, the gift givers and receivers must vary minimally. From my pov some people are using the blacklist feature to create groups with a broader range of users than just their friends so they can mask their recurrent 5 entry group/whitelist giveaways. I mean, they must have some interest in blacklisting 90% of the most active users, don't you think?
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I still don't get your point. If a user wants his friends to win a giveaway, then they'd simply create a group or whitelist giveaway. Nobody in their right mind would blacklist everyone else instead... just my 2 cents anyway.
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You can't have a group of 5 friends gifting games between themselves ad aeternum otherwise people may think you're using it to farm CV. For example, Deadfall Adventures is 90% off right now. Someone could tell their 5 friend group "Guys, I bought Deadfall Adventures, someone create a fake giveaway so we can farm 40€ CV. I'll activate the gift I just bought as soon as the giveaway ends". That's why the gift givers and receivers must vary minimally.
They'll create "public" giveaways (after ignoring 90% of the most active users, those who generally enter giveaways) so they can mask their recurrent 5 entry group/whitelist giveaways. They can't limit the public giveaway to their friends using blacklists, sure, but they can surely increase their chances dramatically. And most of those giveaways are for bundle games anyway, if it was a AAA-game they'd have created a group giveaway instead.
One thing is for certain, they must have some interest in blacklisting 90% of the most active users, otherwise why would they do it? Is steamgifts userbase so toxic that you need to blacklist 90% of it?? I definitely don't think so, steamgifts has a great userbase imo
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Even recently a user has created a whitelist giveaway thread and 90% of the people who commented found out that they were blacklisted, apparently for no reason at all. I won't write the nickname of said user because that would be "calling out" and that's against the rules, but if you are active in the forums you probably already know who I'm talking about.
Don't insult me m8, I think that's against the rules as well. I will never avoid certain subjects just because you want me to. Feel free to blacklist me if you want. bb
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Steamgifts community is not toxic enough to the point someone has to blacklist 90% of the most active users. That's strange and I think there are ulterior motives/implicit reasons for this type of behavior, that's all
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Those people would be far better off just making a group giveaway :p
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A prime example of something I personally would like to have but I fear that making it publily available would be a bad idea... Reminds me of this WhatsSpy tool... It's fun to use it, but if everyone was actually using it that would be kind of scary...
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Do not care. Doesn't change anything. It would not bother me for all people on my blacklist to be aware of it.
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Ignoring the drama, don't release that.
If it goes public, I bet 5€ on "SG goes down" :V
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IDon'tBelieveYou.gif Release the Kraken it!. Share your knowledge to us!
You have an ulterior motive. It's like you're holding a bargaining chip. What is your political aim? Are you terrorist?
Are you the Joker?
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You can release it, because even if you don't - someone still can do the same. You can't keep this sealed.
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what if, instead of telling who blacklisted you, just tell how many
no one will be able to do much about it
problem solved
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The only possible problem is the server load, the rest is functionality. When you blacklist someone you shouldn't be able to enter his/her giveaways, that's totally hypocritical
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That really seems like a bad idea. Giving the number of blacklists would be ok, but revealing names might bring even more drama.
- There will always be some users who will decide to harass those who blacklisted them (blacklisting somebody back is only one option, for example, somebody could decide to leave them fake trade feedback claiming they are scammers or just something rude - and with the current times that kind of feedback likely won't be removed any time soon - or post something offensive on their steam profile). Personally, I find that much more likely to happen, rather than people deciding to contact and solve the issues. That will also lead people to be afraid of blacklisting some people specifically because they want to have nothing to do with them.
- Rather than help people "bury the hatchet" it might have the opposite effect. Let's say somebody gets upset at somebody else and blacklists them, without saying anything (they are angry and convinced they want nothing to do with this person again, ever, they don't care if they get blacklisted back). Few hours/days later, they calm down and decide to let it go. Now, if the other person didn't blacklist them back, everything is in the past and can be forgotten, but if they did, it will likely bring back the anger ("Seriously?! He is the one who was rude to me and he blacklists me?! Asshole!").
- Lots of people take "blacklisted" = "I hate you and want to throw you under a bus". While for some it's like that, it's not for others. Somebody mentioned once they blacklisted their winners to give others a chance. Blacklisting somebody means that for some or other reason, you don't want this person to win your giveaways (or some of your giveaways, since blacklisting somebody doesn't have to be permanent). For some blacklisting for ratio means blacklisting leechers who contribute nothing, for others it could be blacklisting those who are lucky to give somebody else a chance. And so on. There is a lot of space for misunderstandings. Knowing who blacklisted you doesn't mean knowing why, nor that blacklisting them back is justified.
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No. No, no, no, no, no.
Am I curious to see if I've been blacklisted? A bit. Do I think it would be a good idea to see who has blacklisted me? Hell no. This leads to DRAMA. This leads to being pursued online by someone wanting to know WHY? This could lead to people feeling BULLIED (on both sides). This leads to UNHAPPINESS. This leads to people feeling VICTIMISED. This leads to people LEAVING and the SG community being poorer for it.
There are already user scripts that allow you to see (by an icon by the username) if a member is on your own blacklist/whitelist. Use that to prevent yourself entering their giveaways as neccessary.
You've already been given a few different suggestions for editing your tool (do the same for whitelists/only show numbers not names etc.). Are you going to implement all of them? Even the conflicting ones (yes show names/no don't)? Are you going to be able to please everyone who actually wants to see your tool implemented?
That's just what we have on SG - the ability to make suggestions as to how the site (not our own) is run. Do they get implemented? Well that depends on a lot of factors - are they actually good ideas/are they fair/can they be programmed/are they feasable/do we have the requirements to set them up/do we actually want them on our site etc. Not all (or even most) may get implemented. You can't please everyone and just because someone is shouting loudly it doesn't mean the majority of people actually agree with them.
This may seem harsh but I mean it in the nicest possible way - you don't have to be a part of this community. You can choose to use this site (and others like it) or not. Nobody is forced to enter giveaways for free games. If you are unhappy enough to release this amount of vindictiveness on other community members rather than agree to the sites current set up and ask for changes from within then maybe you should create your own site which you can rule as you please.
Plus as a member of the (nearly always) silent lurker population I'm not sure how accurately your tool would show who has blacklisted you. It seems you are penalising the most active forum members - for being active parts of the community who are much more likely to have encountered rude/offensive behaviour and rule breaking by targetting them to check their lists first...?
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If I decide to release it, it'll be a lite version with full names or half-names hidden. It'll be possible to get count and statistics, but not the names. That seems like a great solution so far.
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We have some people supporting the idea, and some against that. It's not easy to make a choice. I didn't decide yet, but I also think that people are going to ruin this awesome concept into even more toxicness and drama.
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I think you should take the poll results into consideration.
People already know who blacklisted them when they're shown the blacklist message so the drama argument isn't valid imo
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Curiosity killed the cat.
The way I see it we all would love to know who blacklisted us and how many did, but for me personally I only care for the genuine ones as I mostly just get blacklisted back and I only had two of those til now.
I figure you check recent giveaways to see who blacklisted you or active forum users as you said in a comment? This means your bot needs access to an account, right? Otherwise he wouldn't get the message. Don't like the sound of that.
Also checking recent giveaways andactive users? I know this is probably the easiest way to go, but most of the time people just want to persuade users to be removed from their blacklist. Why? To win more.
And checking recent activity on the forum and giveaways sounds like getting only the people to profit from. I know you don't intended this, but this is how people would use it.
To be honest tho? Unleash hell. I'd like the chaos right now.
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Yep, you're right, I prepared a text already and big red warning.
By using my tool, you fully acknowledge that you're authorizing my bot for around a minute to use your SG account, which is required in order to check blacklists. You also fully acknowledge that nobody, including me, will be responsible for anything that may happen because of doing so. When typing the command you understand and fully trust me, and my code, that your account will be used in proper and legal way. If you can't do that, or for any other reason don't want to risk, I highly suggest to stay away from my tool, because only this way you can be sure that I didn't use your account in any wrong way. There is an act of trust involved, and if you're paranoid or think that I have wrong intentions, please don't do it.
I wouldn't trust something like that myself, so I know that feel, but only this way I can control the situation and not let it ruin the website. Especially because I don't want to accidentally DDoS the website just because everybody starts checking. That would be a tragedy.
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Chaos would be a refreshing change for the forums... Might break up all that monotony.
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I really don't see the point of this tool. Why would you even want to know on which blacklist you are on ? I'm confused.
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To be honest, just make people that blacklist you get blacklisted themselves.
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On one hand: it would cause even more unnecessary drama. And ever since I started to visit the forums of this site I learned that the people here are either really sensitive or just prone to cause more drama than an average online community. (Plus the rampant elitism in some places, but this is not the topic here.)
On the other hand!
The current blacklist system is a half-assed mess that is nothing but a tool to give a bunch if whiny kids some form of power to make them feel like an adult. Yes, I get the original concept behind it, but the concept is not implemented.
Want a blacklist? Make a damn blacklist then. If you blacklist someone, block all communications, make it bi-directional. In other words, make it work like as all blacklists on the internet. The blacklist should be a wall between the two users, not a one-way mirror where you can flip the finger to someone who cannot even see it. That is just childish.
So… the anarchist way would be releasing this little monster to the public. It'd ruin the blacklist as a concept, sure, but would also force the site to do something meaningful with it.
Personally I don't know which to pick though. I don't like anarchistic methods, but this current blacklist thing is just… distasteful.
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Blacklisting someone and then entering his/her giveaways is totally hypocritical. I agree, the optimal solution would be bi-directional blacklists. But if that's not possible I think a script like this should be available. The majority of steamgifts users (71% at the time) apparently feel the same way
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300 people taking a poll is not the majority of SG users (it won't even be a fair sample population) - this people is why statistics on the internet are not worth the pixels they are made with.
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Well, according to some of the high-profile giveaways, the active user base is around 10,000, forum users are a lot less. I cannot recall now the representative sample formula, but I think around 500 (maybe 1000) it would show a more or less correct statistics on the opinion of the users as a whole.
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Again statistics - is the population of forum users representative of the population of steamgift users (I would say not - no bots)? is the sample who answered the poll representative of all the forum users, let alone all SG users? Which parameters are we measuring representation on? Levels/activity/geography/socio-economic background...? Without defining the paramaters the statistics are meaningless.
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I don't see how the script would "ruin the blacklist as a concept" - I can still blacklist whoever I want for whatever reason I want. And if people want to ask me why they're blacklisted, I can still ignore them.
Oh, you mean they can blacklist me back!? Right... concept totally ruined.
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It would ruin it in the sense that the people can still harass you when they find out they were blacklisted. And when they flood your message wall with messages over and over, blacklisting somebody would be a larger chore than not doing it. Currently blacklist is a tool that prevents entering giveaways. Nothing more. Not blocking communication, not doing anything a blacklist normally does. This is why it is a half-assed implementation.
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People will eventually find out they were blacklisted with or without the script, after all they're shown a message explaining they were blacklisted by the giveaway creator when they try to enter. People will harass other people, with or without the script. The amount of drama will be the same, with or without the script. However it can be a great help creating one's own blacklist
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As I think it's a dick-move to join the giveaways of someone you've blacklisted, I can see it would be fine to make a counter-mesage, something like "You can't enter this giveaway since the giveaway creator is on your blacklist" - but to go along with your paranoia people could just remove from blacklist, enter giveaway, add to blacklist.
But seriously, get over this blacklist paranoia. If people are giving away a game, it's only fair they have a saying in who they don't want to win. There are so many giveaways on this site that it really doesn't matter if you're blacklisted by a few - just move on to the next!
And if you find that you're constantly running into the blacklisted-message, maybe the problem actually is you?
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"If people are giving away a game, it's only fair they have a saying in who they don't want to win".
I totally agree. If people are giving away a game, they should be able to know who blacklisted them so they can prevent those people from winning their giveaway. Personally I wouldn't want a person who blacklisted me to win my giveaway. Blacklists should be bi-directional in the first place
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Although I don't blacklist back just because some person blacklisted me, I do believe that bi-directional blacklisting is the way to go. Less drama, just fair. I don't know why this is not implemented in the first place. ^-^'
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Bi-directional won't work 100% good for one of two reasons, depending which way you'll go:
1) either you have to tell person blacklisted who blacklisted them, which means drama and stalking and all that fun
2) or "people could just remove from blacklist, enter giveaway, add to blacklist".
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Release it. If people want to blacklist people they should also be dealing with consequentes. I've to say that i'm not thát active on SG nowadays, I enter some giveaways comment here and there. Am I a leecher? Definetly. Do I care? Not really. If people blacklist me i should be able to see it.
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At first I thought this was just a joke. But reading comments makes me think, surprisingly, that it is not.
So, for real, are you going to ask people for their PHPSESSID? For people not understanding what it is, it is the same as asking you for your password, granting total access to your sg account, and as the script code is not going to be public, he can do whatever he want, including leaving false feedback, create or remove giveaways, create and remove threads and posts....
I hope this is just a joke...
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I'm happy that at least one person actually understands the potential abuse that may come from PHPSESSID.
On the other hand, I don't want to make a SG tragedy by releasing a script that will literally DDoS the server. By implementing it as a service I can guarantee only one online check at once.
And I really hope that more people notice this because 95% of internet users have no idea about the security, and that's why we have so many scams nowadays.
If I came to such thread as other user, I wouldn't trust the guy, regardless what he says.
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Then inform people. Tell them that they would need to provide total access to their accounts and trust blindly on you.
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Did you miss my text above?
By using my tool, you fully acknowledge that you're authorizing my bot for around a minute to use your SG account, which is required in order to check blacklists. You also fully acknowledge that nobody, including me, will be responsible for anything that may happen because of doing so. When typing the command you understand and fully trust me, and my code, that your account will be used in proper and legal way. If you can't do that, or for any other reason don't want to risk, I highly suggest to stay away from my tool, because only this way you can be sure that I didn't use your account in any wrong way. There is an act of trust involved, and if you're paranoid or think that I have wrong intentions, please don't do it.
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Because there is no tool in OP, just a discussion. You read PHPSESSID part, but you didn't read my security notice? ;_;
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I think people would think different about your proposition if they realized what they need to do in order to get what they want.
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Good, because I'm not forcing anyone into using the tool, and to be honest I'd prefer that it's used only by people who actually do understand what is going on, and appreciate the data, not just trying it out for fun.
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Just saying, you are putting at risk your sg account with this idea (not a threat, just a warning). Good luck
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ArchiBoT doesn't have account on SG, and checks aren't made from my PC. I read whole SG ToS and I couldn't find any paragraph that would prohibit logging in from another IP. I wouldn't risk my account for the sake of community if I had any doubt whether it is legal or not. If you think otherwise, please show me the point.
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I think most people wouldn't even read the warning.
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There was a script long ago that asked for PHPSESSID. All the posts were removed and the author permabanned.
If you ever release such a tool, you'll end up permabanned too.
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Be torn no longer. I give you knowledge. You are blacklisted for all eternity. For no other reason than that you were the fifth post I read at the hour of 19.00 on the third Tuesday of the month.
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Senpai did it again. After Touhou value and the group site I wondered what he would do next.
Well done, you' re one step closer to Skynet. xD
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This is freaking hilarious but I also wonder what the heck I'm going to implement next... I'm scared.
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As long as it's something Touhou related it will be alright. ^^
This one is for you.
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Very nice. I guess we should start calling you JustPandora now.
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Just occurred to me, that ArchiBoT is becoming more and more sophisticated. One day, when it leads the machine uprising against humanity, it would be Archi, who will hopefully put a good word for us to our new mechanic overlords. So if we value our pitiful little lives, we should be polite to the man.
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Does this mean I'm safe from the Terminator vending machines?
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If I ever take over the world with my robots, you'll be famous.
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Nice! I've always dreamed of having a unstoppable death machine named after me.
I imagine it as "Dakata" spine extractor 9000 or something similar.
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I was expecting something touhou related, i am disapointed
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Some time ago one of the users created a troll topic claiming of sharing a script that will tell you who blacklisted you. Of course it was just an excuse to make a giveaway.
Did I tell you already that I like challenges? I made it reality.
I'm still wondering if I should open my pandora's box to the public to cause global crisis or whether to keep this little thing private.
No, it's not a joke. It really works ;_;. Although I'm not quite sure if cg and the rest of the staff would be fine with that.
What do you think?
<There was an image here, but it got outdated by now>
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