Are people vindicative when the key happens to be duplicate ?
Or are there simply so many people giving away keys they're unsure about and want to cover their ass so they don't get a Not Received?
It works both ways.
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Some people are less organized, but lets be fair, if you have old keys from a crap site like Indiegala or worse, you are not sure if they work either.
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I think I'm in a "then gift it to friend/family/forum dump" camp.
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Same. It's not worth the hassle giving away keys unless I'm relatively sure they're good.
It's a hassle for me, for the winner, and then for support.
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i'm not sure my brother would appreciate 'Super Sexy Furry Hentai Walking Sim' and if he would, I'm not sure I'd want to actually know ;)
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Problem with that thread: you're feeding key ninjas.
Creating as a GA at least gives your game to people who actually wants it (or rather, actually bothered to spend their free points to enter).
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its so easy to prevent that and actually this method is used by quite a lot of people.
make a short and easy equation 45-(10x12) for one digit or.......or split the key into 2-3 parts...
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They are still key ninjas.
My definition of key ninja = people who constantly scan for key drops and snatches keys as fast as they can, no matter which game they are getting.
Creating as GA at least give people a few hours to join in, and have a fair share of win rate.
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well yeah sure, you are right, no doubt. i do that sometimes too. but still, i did the same with a few keys i had left, left a note in the giveaway that i am not 100% sure if it works. in the end, just one key didnt work and the guy made such a fuzz that i still have this *1 not received giveaway on my steamgifts account.
well....
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Me too, I have one. Well, I don't really care about it anyway.
Just blacklist that fellow and move on.
Anyone sane enough can see that you didn't do that intentionally.
Usually people who agreed to let me delete a faulty key GA will earn a place in my whitelist.
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yeah sometimes you meet realy greedy peeps here.
but nice to share the same thoughts.
have a nice weekend pal
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I have thousands of unused bundle keys, and most of the times the keys still work.
But, very rarely, devs actually deactivated unused old bundle keys (Indie Gala keys has the most issues on this).
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Pft back in my day if I made a give away and the key didn't work or was the wrong key I when and got the right key for the person, none of this agreeing to delete a giveaway nonsense. <mutters to himself about how kids today all have it so easy>
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Git off ma lawn!
(I still replace bad keys with good ones.)
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So much this.
The stigma attached to a NR seems to be part of the issue, when really all it means is one couldn't deliver the game and gets no CV for it.
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Couldn't it be related to SGtools protected giveaways as well ?
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I never seen an SGT GA with limiting users who have not received GA. I'm not even sure if there is an option for that.
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What about the contrary, someone who has not given what they should have ?
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Sorry, I don't understand this. Winner does not get what they should = not received.
we're back to
never seen an SGT GA with limiting users who have not received GA.
People use SG as a filter for having not acivated wins, not having non-delivered ones. (and here we're obviousy talking about the creators, because it would make no sense in the other way)
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I was speaking on the gifter point of view, if you didn't give one gift, can you end up locked out ?
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Sorry for being boring but
I never seen an SGT GA with limiting users who have not received GA. I'm not even sure if there is an option for that.
There is absolutely no filter for having not delivered games, not even the crazy-customizable additional options. You can check it for yourself if you start creating a filter for any private giveaway (ended ones also work)
People are just wanting their precious CV. So many places to drop the key or asking people who wants the game.
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You're not boring, I thought I just didn't manage explain that I didn't mean it on the winner part, but on the giveaway creator part since you said that you didn't understand.
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Man, how would be the winner at fault? For not activating a game they never got? :)
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You know, I'm not native speaker and English self taught, so when someone tell me that they didn't understand, I take it on me, I tell myself "I didn't explain well", but when someone uses my attempts to make things clear to clearly mock me after they said themselves they didn't get it, it's rather uncool.
Not everybody speaks a perfect English and not everybody blames the other side if they don't understand. Be nicer, it doesn't cost anything, but at least it helps making everybody's day better.
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Nobody mocked your english, sorry if it felt that way, wasn't my intention.
I wrote what I wrote because if the winner literally can not be punished (and I know it), then I know what you were talking about, and I was responding accordingly from the start. You were just running circles overexplaining that you aren't talking about things (winners) to which I referred multiple times that I know that we're talking about those. I often do that when nervous or overeager, it wasn't supposed to be patronizing, just the chill man, slow down, we know, let's get back to the topic - way.
This is one of the reasons why I couldn't understand where you were (and kind of, are) going - the winner activates the correct game, replies / marks as not received for an incorrect one. It is that simple. As long as working keys are activated, the winner is good. (multi-win is another topic)
(And that "on the contrary" is supposed to be used in a way " A is nice. On the contrary, B is not nice".So me talking about creators, and you saying "on the conrary, what about creators" meant that you misunderstood me for talking about the winners, which is impossible as winners are unaffected by the non-received system and its punishments. Likely that misunderstanding contributed a lot to it)
if you didn't give one gift, can you end up locked out ?
I never seen an SGT GA with limiting users who have not received GA. I'm not even sure if there is an option for that.
There was your reply for that at my very first comment, and that's why I was confused for you asking it at least two other times afterwards.
There is no filter, no way (in SG, or SGTools) to filter out if someone has given a game that was not received ( = having a non-received GA). I even checked it for you in SGTools (as mentioned in the "sorry for being boring post of mine) that there is no filters regarding it, nowhere.
So there is no punishment unless overzealous people go and check profiles one by one to blacklist them. But blacklisting is another circle of just-don't-care-about-it, everyone will get blacklisted for something
TLDR: sorry if I accidentally offended you.
To simply put:
If I make a giveaway, you win it, I can't deliver it, you mark it as not received:
you are OK.
I will get warned/ suspended by admins after a few occurences/if they suspect I did it intentionally
I can still pass all SGTools, and very few people bothering to check the stats will may be angry at me. But anyone can be angry at me so ... happens.
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It's ok, you didn't exactly offend me, I just found the sarcasm unkind while I had the feeling that I was struggling to explain and / or understand the answers. Now at least I got it, hope I didn't offend you the same, I was genuinely trying to understand / make what I asked clear, not trying to troll.
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see, i did the exact same thing.
i warned them in one of my giveaways that it might not work.
and still the winner made a huge fuzz about it. now i got this -1 not received for like 2 years i think.
but to be honest, idc
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The stigma attached to a NR seems to be part of the issue, when really all it means is one couldn't deliver the game and gets no CV for it.
The only thing I can think of that would increase NR stigma are private groups who will deny applicants or kick users gifters who have/get an NR - Is that accurate?
I assume SG mods don't suspend accounts on the grounds of "Fake Giveaways" unless there are repeat NRs or blatantly fake keys/URLs are given like humblebundle.com/?gift=uSuck
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Thanks for answering my question clearly, I was wondering if SGtools could take that in account too, in the end, I'm just trying to understand why I see so many of those requests / rules because, let's be honest, it doesn't make any sense to me if there is nothing bad coming out of it.
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One user has blacklisted me after providing me with the right key instead of invalid one (not to be confused with the duplicate). So it probably depends...on something
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Same. Luckily I've only been caught out with a bad key a couple of times but each time I went and bought a fresh key/gift and sent it.
It's the decent thing to do after all.
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I used to do that too. Until one day Steam decided to make my Steam store one of the cheapest region in the world.
I can't gift to anybody thru Steam now.
Ugh... 3rd world problem.
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Bottom line, while people MAY write that, it does not cover them whatsoever.
if someone decided to be a dick and disagree to delete, they have to either suffer the not received, or provide some sort of "benefit" to the guy so he deleted(off the book of course), be it a random game, cards, or even the original game itself.
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The statement itself doesn't really make sense since it's not enforceable by site rules. People just appear awkward instead when trying to make conditions that aren't real. And honestly, getting fair marks of Not Received on the off chance that a winner doesn't agree to a deletion, which they almost always do anyway, is not really a huge deal when it's clearly genuine mistakes. So no, I don't believe it's a widespread problem at all.
It makes more sense when the creators are honest and simply state that they aren't sure if the key will work because they're unsure about it, so the entrant is warned about the potential hassle beforehand.
In the end the statement doesn't change anything because "vindictive" people, as you put it, still have the right to mark as Not Received either way, and people who'd willingly agree to deletion won't change their stance because they are commanded to. If anything, it feels rude and misleading to try to apply arbitrary conditions that aren't real in an effort to intimidate the less knowing entrant. I see this type of behaviour very often around this site and in specific groups where the end result is that people who don't know their rights are basically tricked to forfeit them.
TL;DR: Writing the statement as a general warning is a nice gesture. Writing it as a rule is rude (and might even make people less inclined to follow it), doesn't prevent people from ignoring it anyway, and encourages the general spreading of misinformation harming everyone who don't know the exact rules to begin with.
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I don't really care, I see that statement every now and then too and I'm always 100% ok to delete the key if for some reasons it's dupe, non-valid, revoked or whatever else.. it's just a matter of giving away games and being kind to each other so I have always been extremely supportive with the giveaway creator when the key I won turned out to be already used or invalid..
But I can't speak for every other user here so I don't really know their perspective.. in my opinion I'm here to spend some free time, have fun and make someone else happy so I'd never care about these issues.. if the key doesn't work, who cares.. I'll win another time ^^
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+1
I totally agree, but I also understand the issue behind those made up rules. But I would never insist on getting a won game if the key is duped for whatever reasons.
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I have no problem either, but with ESGST showing me the description of the giveaway I see this so often either as request or rule that I really wonder why they feel the need to add it.
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In my case I've always added it as I often saw it done by others TBH. Assumed it was the standard I guess.
That & various mental reasons LOL.
I've mostly included it since having to contact support when someone won a giveaway; activated it & did not mark as received after a few weeks. Especially since I'm a newer member & it interfered with my usage at that point as my giveaway limit was so low.
As such I usually include a please mark as received as I hate to bother support disclaimer at the least. Though I'm well aware that there's no actual rule or anything to back up the statement. A large reason I put up the disclaimer is honestly; I hate to bother support. :)
Though as I said it might just be a mental / personality thing in my case. Just my 2 cents if that's of any use.
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When I make a giveaway for an older bundle key, I sometime will write that the key is old and that if there's a problem I'll do my best to fix it. In my case I write it mostly just to warn people entering in the event of the key not working as lately older keys don't seem to be as reliable as they once were. I agree though that I don't really like description like those "by entering this giveaway you agree to delete...", not to mention they can't enforce it and some people just write it in every single one of their giveaway.
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For the "every single" it may be because they use a Template, ESGST allows you to save the informations put in your giveaways such as the date, the hour, the group, the level and the message going with. All my giveaways go with a message stating that I check my winners (which I do since a mod told me it was helping ^^), it's how I made my template :) !
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Actually, the thing I don't get is why people would even create giveaways for keys they're not sure about.
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There are some keys you get from specific places such as lootboy which can be duplicate.
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Then they shouldn't make giveaways for it, especially not making up rules. We-re back at the comment you replied to :)
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they prefer to risk the +1 instead of using the orphan keys thread.
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There exists a group for people giving away keys from lootboy, the only rule is to accept to delete the giveaway because it's a well known issue.
In any case, I see this comment or rule, in many giveaways, not always stated as a rule, so I was wondering if there was a time where there were a lot of duplicate :)
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I bought my keys legit from Indie Gala. They are unused bundle keys.
Most of the times it works. But like 1% of the time, the devs actually deactivates unused keys from old bundle.
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Following this logic, each and every key GA should be accompanied by the said warning because there's always a tiny degree of uncertainty. Usually though it just means that either they were acquired via grey market, or an owner is unsure if they've already activated/given away/traded a key.
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the winner has no obligation to accept it. It is up to him and he is not an "butt hole" if he refuses to delete the giveaway. It is the responsibility of the giveaway creator to provide a working key for the game he gives away. Don't make a giveaway for a key you are not sure about. Or pray for the mercy of the winner.
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It's all relative, im ok with creators deleting GAs, and i've accepted that and quite surprisingly many times. And in my opinion, most often ,the people that don't are the most self entitled.
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Since neither the giveaway creator nor Steamgifts can guarantee that a key will work, that's not a reasonable bar, and it's also not what the Terms of Service require. What is required, reasonably, is that giveaway creators supply an UNUSED key.
I can control, to pretty good certainty, whether I have USED a Steam key - opened it, redeemed it, given it to someone. There is absolutely no way that I can take on the responsibility that the key WORK - that's not anything I can control.
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I guess that's why the penalties for not supplying a working key are so small that the odd one here or there has no practical effect and the creator shouldn't be afraid of an honest "not received".
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How do you know if the key is duplicate because you used it or because the developer revoked them or the place where you got the key gave it to another person as well ? The message is the same ^^"
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I track them on a list, and in most cases, except for the very oldest ones (and I'm mostly done with those), I reveal the key for the first time when I'm making the giveaway.
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Makes sense, for long I had no idea what the key was fetched only when it's revealed.
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I guess I took an example of sentence that doesn't reflect all the ways the request is written, some state it as a rule, but they are more rare then those who request with a "pretty please". My reflection about being a "butt hole" is I consider that you're given a gift, it happens that some people keep those keys for long and some are revoked (I'm looking at you, Flat kingdom), if such issue happens and the person ask politely if it's ok to delete the giveaway, saying "no I want my free stuff" feels entitled, even if you won it, it's still a free stuff and it's uncool to make a fuss about it if the person approached you in a gentle manner. I hope I made it more clear ^^" !
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I've bought a lot of bundles over the years, and I'm slowly giving away everything I don't want. The bad keys run something less than 1% of the total, if I had to estimate. That means 99% or more are good, and why shouldn't people have them if they want them?
(I also check each game I give away in the Steam forums and the Revoked-Keys thread here to see if there have been issues with any given game; if so, I don't make the GA.)
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Same here I've been slow to giveaway older key and it didn't used to be an issue, only recently have started to revoked older key so I'm still left with a lot of unredeemed (even uncovered) games that I'd like to giveaway. I also take every precaution to check in the appropriate thread, honestly I've given many older key and out of all of those only one time did I had a problem with a key.
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This new habit is really annoying. Sometime I feel like entering all those giveaways just for a chance to NOT AGREE to delete it in the case key were used. This giveaway deletion thingie needs to be addressed; either by forbidding giveaway deletion completely, or by automating it.
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Honestly, this. Maybe it's just me being a schadenfreudian (is that a word?) bastard, who knows
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You could just say co-ashamed to make it an English word. There is a word for it in almost every other European language than English but for some reason Americans think it's only German.
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Co-ashamed isn't what I mean though. I'm not talking about being embarrassed by others' behaviours but about enjoying the misfortune of others, so no, co-ashamed doesn't work.
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By my experiences, "sadistic" is the usual term an American would use in that context, regardless of whether or not there's a better option available. Now you've got me wondering at the distinction between "sadistic" and "schadenfruedian", though.
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In my mind there is quite a difference but I guess that'd be close enough since the other isn't really a word in English, I don't think. Thanks! :)
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I'd imagine it has more to do with being happy seeing others have misfortune on their own than sexual pleasure from causing them suffering.
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http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-epi3.htm
Yeah my bad, I remembered some TV series using it in a totally different meaning. Finnish still has a word for both. :)
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Huh, super interesting, I had no idea! Thank you for sharing!
And yes, German has a word for both of those too! :)
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I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't read the rules and actually think they have to agree to what's in the giveaway description.
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"What do you mean we can't make our own rules?"
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The only time I think a warning of possible redemption/region is 100% justified is when there is a blatant absence or conflict regarding region restriction information available regarding a game. Otherwise, seems like key mismanagement or doubt in reliability of where the key came from.
Let me give my own and only personal example of a justified warning: I want to giveaway Frozen Synapse Prime that I acquired from GMG which says there are "no regional restrictions", yet another site often updated by some members of SG says there can be "region lock issues" without any info on what regions a key could be locked to. So I don't put any region restrictions on the GA (implying that I have some trust in GMG), but warn people that there is a chance there might be region issues.
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Are those giveaways mostly from the lootboy group?
I don't see this message that often outside of the group (but might be just my impression since I have hidden most trash games that often come from questionable sources :P)
In case of the lootboy group, it's just an internal group rule, that members have to agree to delete the giveaway if they want to stay inside the group. Of course this doesn't affect the sg rules in any way. Users could still refuse to delete the ga, but then they would be removed from the group. So far there were no problems with this and I never had to remove anybody :3
It's also not necessary to post that rule in the ga's, but I guess people just put it there as a reminder for the group members...similiar to the Playing Appreciated group wich also has their "Play this in 30 days"-message in every giveaway :3
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I'm part of the group as well, but I have the description of the giveaway appearing when I enter one thanks to ESGST, this "rule" or "request" appears really often.
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Maybe that's where I originally saw it? As a new member I immediately setup ESGST & other user scripts etc.
So I may have seen it there & thought it was the normal. I never really paid attention to groups when I first joined. So that could be possible. Thanks for mentioning that again. My apologies for responding to your post in 2 places. :)
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Bit of common sense here should prevail. If someone has given a key that they cant replace and they have gone to reasonable lengths to get a replacement, you should not be a douche and insist on the key. Humble bundle not replacing keys due to so called trading/regional restrictions with appropriate proof would be more than enough for me to agree to deletion.
Ever since otaku/gogo went bust and keys were being revoked left right and centre, situations like this have made people more nervous about giveaways and include the disclaimer to try and help mitigate those situations when keys no longer work. I still have stacks of keys from them which I don't make giveaways for as I don't trust the keys anymore.
I personally don't giveaway keys unless I am 90-95% certain the keys work so I try to have standards that my keys will most likely work before making the giveaway. If you worry about a giveaway and cannot afford to replace it, then don't make the giveaway. Simples!
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For the keys you don't know, you can use lootboy SG group. It's required to accept deletion or you get kicked.
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I used to use Ninja retreat for keys I wasn't sure about in the past but i'd just prefer not to give the keys away now. I've given over 7,000 games away on SG and have yet to receive a not received. I wouldn't want to spoil that now.
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:) Are you trying for the "always sent" achievement or something ;)
I have a not received myself. Well, life goes on.
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Let's be real, if you make enough giveaways you're bound to eventually reuse a few keys you've already used / given away, or run into a bad key from a bundle site. Even though they're not required to, the reasonable thing for the winner is to agree to delete the giveaway and I have never have a problem doing so. Insisting on a new key because you "won it fair and square" just seems so entitled.
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550 games sent, only had a problem once. Well, it sometimes May happen.
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I think I've only used that once or twice but I prefer to get people the key they asked for, even if it's late (18 days late in my most recent one) the only time I ever deleted one was because they took 3 weeks and the key had expired within 10 days of the giveaway ending and since I could've rerolled him we just decided to delete it. Still, I can see why people would do it but I just don't do it since I think if I put something like this up and don't take it down beforehand I should give out the payment, even if it's a month late
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should be against the rules to say that, just like begging or asking for donations.
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I mean, I do think it's odd when those disclaimers come in heaps, but I mean, what with all the revocations etc lately, who even knows anymore if the keys really will work despite having had them for a while. It makes me wanna sift through keys to get rid of them sooner rather than later too, not that I intended to hold on to them for years or something to begin with.
And I mean unless one user explicitly repeatedly deletes every GA (which I believe is something that wouldn't go unnoticed by support) I usually just shrug that notice off and hope for the best. No idea how many of those that I entered were deleted in the end though.
On that note I only had won a bad key once, and even the replacement key was a dupe, but I don't blame the GA host, since the key source could have been at fault just as well. At the same time I am paranoid about receiving the red X on one of my GAs haha. So yeah it goes both ways I think.
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I have asked for one deletion, in a case where I literally could not replace the key. It was an old indieroyale key, so the original source couldn't replace it. The game isn't currently sold anywhere besides Steam, so I couldn't just go buy another key somewhere else. And to top it all off, the user is in a region where the price is higher than mine, so I couldn't gift a steam version either. After we discovered that it was impossible for me to gift the game in any way, the user agreed to delete the giveaway and I gave them a different game as an apology.
That said, I don't see a need to have the disclaimer there. It can't be enforced by support anyway, so it just makes you look kind of silly.
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It's a lot about how the creator asks the winner to permit giveaway deletion, I think.
Some people will write "By entering, you are obliged to agree to delete the GA." in the description of every other giveaway they create, and expect the winner to comply. I'm sorry, mate, that's not how it works.
On the other hand, if you get a duplicate/invalid key and the creator apologizes and asks if you'd be fine with him deleting the GA... many of us will have no problem with that.
People see not agreeing to giveaway deletion as the winner being an a-hole. Instead, it should be seen as kindness if the winner does agree ;)
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It's starting to appear to me that there's a ton of reasons why this occurs as well as strong opinions on the topic, having read the entire thread.
In my case I joined the site, setup ESGST, saw lots of disclaimers & assumed it was the norm. I never even considered anyone would take it as being rude. That never occurred to me. I figured the opposite TBH...
I'm autistic & have anxiety issues perhaps that's why... But I thought it was polite to post a disclaimer!
Just in case there was an issue that was out of the control of the person making the giveaway. Such as a key revocation. I figured a disclaimer mentioning that possibility; stating to please mark as received in a timely manner (along with a WL encouragement for doing so; in my case); as well as the obligatory (again for me personally) Please & Thank You was the proper & polite way to do giveaways.
Thanks to those that have posted there perspectives. It's interesting to see the various perspectives. If any of my disclaimers have ever offended anyone, my humble apologies! It was not intended to do so!
I'll have to follow this topic. As I don't want to offend someone in an attempt to be polite & logical. Very interesting perspectives that I never even would have thought to consider being a possibility. Thanks again to those that have posted in the thread & provided said perspectives.
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Umm... I think you mean "vindictive?"
(Yes, I realize you can't edit the poll once it's made. Inconvenient, but also pragmatic.)
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Sorry about that, I'm French native speaker and mostly self taught in English. Vindicative is the French word so the auto-correct didn't point it as a mistake ^^" .
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No worries. Even native English speakers have trouble with English. ).
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I see that in many many MANY giveaways and every time I'm like.. "Are there so many butt hole who are making a huge fuss when the key happens to be duplicate so people try to protect themselves that way ?"
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