What does it take for you to consider someone your co-citizen in your country?
Personally, there are plenty of people who do not respect my country's laws or culture and I would still consider them citizens. I mean, I don't like all of the laws or culture - who does? As far as I'm concerned, if someone genuinely considers themselves British, they're British.
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The key word is "genuinely." If someone is sincere and is leaving their family behind and spending years going through reams of legalese paperwork then I'd say they're British. If you haven't done these things, I suspect you're maybe just making a frivolous comment online, so it wouldn't be genuine and I wouldn't say you're British.
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So you are suggesting that my nations roots as a British colony are not enough to consider myself British? Way harsh bro.
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As a british man i consider myself a moon man
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Well that's a refreshing point of view, most people highlights what they feel about the outsider but being willing to accept the "outsider"'s point of view is rare
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I think kchild hit the nail on the head when he said that its about feeling a part of the community, not where you were born or raised.
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Hard to say - i guess whetever is the definition stated in the law, as long as said law isn't overly retarded.
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It's more about what you feel than the law's view. Who would you feel to be "your people"?
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Those born in the country, those who got the Permanent Stay Card(basically, you get most priviliges of citizenship, except... i don't know - being called a citizen i guess?) and those who somehow gain citizenship anohter way.
There isn't much immigration to here so there isn't much debate about it. Generally, slavic and asian immigrants have a better chance of being accepted and treated like "one of us" but there still isn't enough of them for people to start thinking "what does citizenship even mean here".
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Citizenship isn't quite the right term as that generally means being eligible for the passport of that country.
You can live somewhere all your life but if you're visibly different and have a foreign name you will always be an outsider until people get to know you. This takes time to change. Most percerptions change when more and more foreigners with the same views and behaviour as the general population becoming more and more visible through media like local/national TV, radio etc. Then it doesn't become so foreign for people to assume you're one of them even though your name or appearance is obviously not local.
Edit:
Answer: "Citizenship is something that can be acquired, through assimilation of my culture and respect of laws" as proving that is normally a prerequisite for attaining citizenship. It still can mean you view some things entirely different than what the law states.
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I know that citizenship is not the best term, but couldn't find anything better to explain what I intended. I'm sure anyway that you understood what I wanted to say.
Anyway you think that things need simply time to change?
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Not just time, but time certainly helps.
Atm I can't think of the right term myself, it's in the back of my mind ;)
Anyway, for some people your heritage will always mean being a foreigner. Even your kids and grand-children will be considered foreigners. Well, those people aren't that important and thankfully are the minority. Most people will watch first and see your bahaviour and mannerisms. If they aren't too far out of their general breadth of experiences you will eventually be considered a member of their community or group of friends.
One thing to remember about having a different name or appearance: You're not just another person, another number in the masses. People will notice you. Of course, in some instances that may be not what is wanted. Especially if you commit a faux-pas at an event or such :D
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"Nationality" is probably the most appropiate term:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality#Nationality_versus_citizenship
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Maybe 'countryman' is more like the term you're looking for.
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I agree that citizenship is maybe not what you're talking about here. Being recognized as "legal" by the government isn't the same thing as being accepted there. I am a US citizen, but I grew up in Peru (from age 4-18). I considered it home, and for the most part, I felt accepted by the people I spent time with. However, there were always looks from everyone else because our family didn't look like most of the people around us. I don't remember anyone being mean or anything, just that feeling of separation or being different. My brother was born there, so he was a Peruvian citizen, but because of our ethnic background I think that distinction was probably there for him as well.
(Also, a bump for the GA.)
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Shamefully , most of us peruvians , consider people of white skins as gringos, outsiders. That is changing but slowly, as it is way too rooted on our society.
Hopefully you had fun when you were on peru and that didn't bother you too much. Also it depends a lot on what city where you .
I guess growing on Peru made you love all the flavors on our food :)
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I love most of the food, I really need to make more myself now that I don't live there anymore. I've found that lots of the spices used are very unique to Peru, and it's hard to perfect the flavor with substitutes. I never acquired a taste for ceviche, though.
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Yeah, ceviche is almost always a hit or miss , or you hate it or you love it.
Where you based on Peru?
Also getting most of spices are hard and taking them to another country is even harder (and expensive)
I see you are based on usa now.
When I go there , my friends ask me to bring some inka cola :P
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Yes, your name will continue to be an obstacle, but it is also a strength; it teaches you how to be strong in ways that many other Italians will never have the opportunity to know. It is through adversity that we grow and you already sound much more mature than most.
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"Citizenship is something that can be acquired, through respect of my country's laws but one can keep his own culture as long as it doesn't go in conflict with mine"
That sums it up for me. Although, people decide conflict, not their culture. One can disagree or have differing cultural views without conflict arising (despite what's going on in the world today). :X
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For me it's just being eligible to have a passport of that country. I don't believe in any real meaning of country cept legal, culture is just too vague (would you say that sicilians have the same customs as the padovans?).
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Nationality is simply a way to find a common ground with other people; 10-15 years ago some people from northern Italy kept saying that people from south are lazy or worse things. Now that concept evolved in "non-italian are bad" and "non-european people are bad".
My question was "what does it take for you to find that common ground with other people?"
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looks under her feet
Common ground! XD
Seriously, what common ground? Common ground to me means either the same ideas or the same experiences or the same desires. While there is some influence which comes from the customs in the country you live/are from (ex. monogamy vs polygamy, democracy vs other types of government, etc) in the end those concepts are too abstract and too global to claim we can have some common ground just because we were born/live in the same geographical zone. Take two people from two different europeans countries, throw away the fact they speak different languages, throw away the sentence "they live/were born in _", how much is left to distinguish where is each of them from?
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If someone aspires to be a citizen, through their thoughts and actions, who am I to stand in their way?
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bump
for me borders are totally artificial and I consider myself (and everyone else ) as world citizen (guess I'll be BL for that^^).
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People of the same kind stick together, that's how nation states were formed eventually and it's also a driving factor in why let's say turkish immigrants in Germany often end up living next to other turkish immigrants and creating so called parallel societies. It's the same with things like Chinatown or whatever. I simply don't see any example where multiculturalism really works as intended and I don't know any reason it would either, at least not with current politicians.
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Interesting topic. I think you are a citizen of whichever nations ideals you embrace (from a philosophical perspective). From a legal perspective you are a citizen of whichever nation you have a passport from.
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I actually think that citizenship in that context that you use it is an obsolete context. Through a globalised world people are migrating and intermixing much more that they used to and culture has to adapt accordingly. Either though locking foreigners out or through embracing their culture and mixing it with their own.
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For my part I think borders will be seen, in some far future, as reliefs of tribalism, and will be long gone. If mankind makes it and doesn't destroy itself before growing up, of course :)
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"Assimilation of my culture" covers a very broad range. Language is essential for example, while religion is optional and everyone's free choice. Religion should never be ranked above the constitution though. With no exceptions. And that includes 'domestic' religions.
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not every country in the world has religious freedom and some countries constitution are intertwined with their religious beliefs.
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The poll and topic are about our personal views. Not about what might be in other parts of the world.
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Extremely relevant(especially the link)
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I don't care much about citizenship, maybe it's because I live in a (kind of) 3rd world country ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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I meant that I wouldn't treat people differently just because they were citizen of my country :/
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Some time ago I commented on a thread sharing part of my story, and I noticed that the topic was very interesting for many so I'd like to open the discussion to a wider range of audience, and also understand how ways of thinking change according to countries.
Long story short: I was born in Romania and lived there for 9 years, then I moved to Italy because my mother found a job here. I grown up in Italy, went to school and university in Italy, have italian friends and cook italian food BUT I don't have a italian name, so every time I have to give explanations about it, and so sometimes people change their behaviour towards me.
Most o the time it's simple distrust, like when I went to a friend's home and he told me that his parents spent half an hour to hide their belongings and jewelry when they knew I was coming. A couple of times it came to open statements like "you will never be italian", "your people are all violents and thiefs", "you should go home to where you came from".
The very most people here are not like this, I have lots of friends and know lots of awesome people so I will never blame the population for these episodes. But still they happened, and became more frequent in the last years with the arrival of immigrants on our coasts. If I'd had to say what I feel to be, I'd say italian for sure because it's the only culture I know and have, but lately I started to question myself "will I ever be fully accepted in this society or my name will be an obstacle for my lifetime?".
I've made a poll and I'd like you to share your opinion, and if possible, to say where are you from.
I've also added 10 sweet giveaways for you:
6y7rq
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