There, its out of my system. I stood up at 2 AM to write this because it wouldn't let me sleep if I didn't write this posthaste.
PS: It's alive! IT'S ALIVE!!!
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And, part two, I'd just like to say that you haven't really given any reasons to support banning other languages. The site would gain nothing and lose something, and your talk about "shrouding illegal activity" doesn't correspond to anything I've seen on the forums. Hell, I can't remember the last time I saw someone use a language other than English on here. Point(s) B is pretty much just your opinion, Point C doesn't really come into play, and Point A is an unsubstantiated claim that, again, gives no good reason to require English.
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"English is one of the most easy to learn languages . . ."
Yeah, I'd like to see that source. Not everyone picks up languages easily, or were taught English consistently in schools. Use of English should be encouraged, but those that do not (and possibly are not able to) speak English should not be discriminated against. It is also unfair to assume that people speaking their first language do so to insult people and talk about them behind their backs.
That said, I like the strike system.
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Doesn't something like a sub-section for a certain language split the community a bit akin to point B where "refusing to use English isolates...from the majority of this community" and what the Addendum that states:
"Whether they expect it to co-exist peacefully with the main community; If history has taught us anything, then that that isn't gonna work. Not without bloodshed."
Point B.1 appears to be unfair however.
For the sake of not double posting:
I haven't seen a sort of language issue with the forums. If anything the use of languages other than English shouldn't be punished. It's hard enough for non-fluent speakers to get their points across I imagine.
Since this is a forum, you have all the time to highlight and copy paste into a translator to get an idea (but not exact) of what someone is saying in case they use their mother tongue to say something they can not express in English.
So far the only repercussion of not using English is people either ignoring the post or having a rough idea of what is being said. Let's leave it at that.
And to avoid any conflicts that may require subsections for different languages the community needs English speakers members not to be snooty about common mistakes from non-fluent speakers and non-fluent speakers not be crash with the use of their language (i.e insulting people in a language they don't understand).
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English is one of the easiest languages to learn, are you kidding me? It's pretty concise grammatically, compared to most languages.
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Just because it was easy for some to learn does not mean it is easy for everyone. I've heard the exact opposite from more people than I've had tell me it's easy to pick up - ease and ability in terms of learning second/third/etc. languages is not universal.
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its nothing near as gramatically complex as any european language i know of. how many genders does english use? just one. french, spanish, german, etc. they all use at least 3. just one example. ever tried looking into japanese? they have 12 ways of counting. that means 12 different words for every number.
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It might not be the easiest, but it's definitely one of the easier languages to learn.
Why would it be discriminating? The whole site is in English and there is no way to change the language, so why should the community suddenly start using different languages? Quite the contrary! I think it's kinda rude to join an English speaking community and only talk in my native tongue.
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English is actually one of the most difficult languages to learn. It's a world language, however, due to the large number of non-native English-speaking countries that teach it at a very young age. We (Native English Speakers) have a lot of words that sound the same, but are spelled differently...lots that are the same word with multiple meanings...I could go on and on. IF we truly want a universal language, that's easy (quite literally) to learn, then I'd recommend Esperanto. =P
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Interesting. I like the idea of a strike system, but imo I don't think that we need to enforce a rule to speak only English.
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Personally I have to agree with this. Either Steamgifts needs to adopt a primary language and require it to be spoken by all of its members, or there will need to be separate instances of the same forum for every spoken language.
In the second case, we would then also have to look at the right to put added provisions into giveaways (One recent example would be where you have to have one of the games of the bundle in order to enter and receive the gift. Why? Because what is to stop someone from adding provisions similar to that in a language that the majority of Steamgifts can not speak? It would wind up creating giveaways people would not enter if they had known they could not possibly win, but since they do not speak the language they are essentially cheated out of their points for entering and being excluded.
Edit: Just thought, if new forums are created specifically for other languages, then steamgifts would also be required to have mods who can speak multiple languages. No clue how that would effect anything though.
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It seems kind of silly to worry about all these hypothetical situations where people /might/ try to take advantage of their minority status. There is a thing called Google Translate, and it works plenty well enough to enable moderation and/or comprehension of conditions.
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You could use Google Translate as an argument for making there be only one language used as well. It's not really a good point to make for either side. After all, if someone can't speak language Z then they can just type in their own language and translate it into language Z, grammar be damned.
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Yes, but it's a matter of convenience. I imagine most non-English speakers would prefer to post in their own language than go to the trouble of translating it into a language they don't understand, whereas an English speaker seeing a fully non-English thread isn't likely to be terribly concerned. Again, given the very small numbers of non-English posts, it's not like we'd miss much by allowing them, whereas the inconvenience might preclude some of those few non-English users from bothering to post at all.
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I have seen someone translate the entire FAQ into russian, which is fine in itself. but it was posted on a thread that has nothing to do with either the FAQ itself, or russian users. so i replied "wrong thread". the answer to that came in russian...
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yes, that plays into it. but the grammar is very easy as well. quoting my answer from above:
it's nothing near as gramatically complex as any european language i know of. how many genders does english use? just one. french, spanish, german, etc. they all use at least 3. just one example. ever tried looking into japanese? they have 12 ways of counting. that means 12 different words for every number.
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the only thing in english that takes some getting used to is the pronunciation. personally, I don't like that in american english, most vowels are pronounced differently than in any other language I know, including british english for the most part.
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One of the less rich grammars I've learn, and I've learn 5 languages and several other languages' grammar are my acquaintances.
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Well, there are grammatical mistakes in your post, so...
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The ease of learning languages depends on the cultural background of the person. Despite the inner complexities (alphabet or no alphabet, phonetic hint or no phonetic hint) of the language, there are babies learning them and toddlers speaking them.
What really makes a language hard to learn is a different alphabet (as in Japanese, Greek, Arabic, and Russian) or reading order.
Really there's no objective fact about what language is hard to learn.
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Added a penalty limiting invite creation/distribution. Also see the addendum about foreign languages
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I always thought English was one of the harder languages to learn? maybe I am crazy. I still cant figure out if I is before or after E. And I'm an American. Would hate to see someone who is ESL figure that out. Then again if they know 2 languages they are pry smarter than me anyway.
I like the strike idea though.
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Seems like almost everyone saying that English is hard to learn comes from the US. Maybe there's a connection? =P
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Also, on the rest of the point, mainly the 3 strikes system.
3 strikes works only in Baseball. And even then, without trying other systems in baseball we can't be certain it's the best system. Usually banpoints work best whereby a person can receive banpoints at the discretion of the mod to the extent that a mod feels appropriate and when the banpoints reach a threshold the person is flagged for review and potential banning by a higher up.
Because most of all it'd be really stupid to kick some shit from the site entirely for doing a few stupid thigns here and there. And even if the bans cleared on their own after a set point it would still be overly simplified, because everything equals 1 strike. Yes, some things could be warnings, but what it would come down to would be like this:
Strike Don't enter for games you have
Strike Don't trade games you win
Strike Only one SG account allowed per person, so if you have two steam accounts, you still only get one SG account.
Strike Don't enter for anyone other than yourself
Warning Don't use the site as a way around regional pricing
Strike Do NOT sell/trade invites
Warning Always thank submitters
Strike Do not submit exploited games/keys (Dark Messiah of Might & Magic Multiplayer, Eets, etc)
Strike Do not submit Steam accounts.
Warning Please make sure the people YOU invite follow these rules
Now, as you notice, some of these seem either too low or too high of a penalty, and obviously if someone keeps up with doing the same thing, he should be punished more than if someone were to... Submit an exploited game and enter a giveaway for a game he wants his friend to play with him (but not win it). That right there is anywhere from 2 to 4 strikes. And all he did was not read the rules the second he joined. His first thoughts were "I wonder what I can do here to help Others." Why ban someone for coming to the site and wanting to help people?
In an ideal situation he'd receive a few banpoints with a note as to the reason for them, and based solely on the judgment of the mod. Or maybe even just a warning if the mod were feeling especially nice. These banpoints would likely eventually expire, or maybe even be worked off over time by being a productive member of the forums that other members notice and flag as a good member for something he does. Like if they notice a really good suggestion by him they might "+1" that post and when a certain amount of posts are +1'ed by unique members, it removes banpoints.
Although truly, the best way is to handle each member on an individual basis dealing with each case differently.
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There are great many forums that require English to be used. Posts that are not in English, as well as in-game communication/messages/PMs, are regarded as an offense and a warning ticket is issued. It results, essentially, in non-English speakers to just "be silent" or communicate in such fractured sentences (a la google-translator) that it's almost laughable.
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seeing the first 20 or so comments of a new giveaway entirely in russian gives me a headache
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Just as the giveaways are subject to guidelines that have to be followed, the forums should be, too, as they are a major part of the community. Which brings me to main point 1:
As this is an international community that commonly uses the English language, I believe that it should be obligatory to speak English in the forums. I will elaborate in the following points.
Mind you that I am not being racist or anything, and I do not condemn foreigners, as I am a foreigner myself. English is not my first language/mother language either.
Addendum:
Consciously or not, by using their mother language, users are constructing a sub-community within the community. Whether they expect it to co-exist peacefully with the main community; If history has taught us anything, then that that isn't gonna work. Not without bloodshed.
Regardless of my opinion, the sub-communities would have to be moderated, or they could be trading invites or something, right on this site (although that example in particular doesn't make sense). And that would require at least one mod for every prominent language. For now that is only Russian, but soon, others will follow, like Spanish and Polish.
Suggested course of Action:
The strike system
I was thinking up a 3 strike system that works like this:
1st strike: 0 or more penalties
2nd strike: 1 or more penalties
3rd strike: Ban
Most penalties are time limited. The penalties and their time limits should be chosen by the mod performing the strike, depending on the offense and it's gravity. Alternatively, the time limit could default to a week. These penalties could include:
Of course, mods can clear penalties and remove the strike if the user successfully clears the suspicion on him in some way.
Not to forget my main point 3: People are not wearing enough hats!
Criticism, insults, opinions, thoughts, spam and death threats follow now.
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