I would rather solve the problems in my own country first
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I'm sure w/e problem in your country is as bad as rampant disease, poverty, and starvation. Q.Q more
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While some help can be given to others, it's also necessary to fix your own shit before you focus on fixing someone else's. For example, a country with as much debt as America shouldn't be given economic lessons to anyone.
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Earning more money and achieving a better lifestyle is the incentive that makes people go to school/collage/university, start a business/start-up, and them spending their hard earned money (or not so hard) fuels the economy and creates more jobs.
if you punish the rich, stop them from making more money and take it away, you are basically creating 1. communism, 2. a society of under achievers in which nobody bothers to better themselves because a janitor, a doctor and a CEO make the same salary at the end of the month, so why even bother.
it's a really short version of this topic, but any longer will probably cause (INB4) 'too long, didn't read'.
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Thats the basic Liberal economy but what happened in 2008 is a moral hazardous action of the well known free market. If you pump the best of best and quality range drops. People tend to put more money into their pockets.
And Russian experiment of equally divided sharing system is failed due to the lack of control mechanism. But China is moving foward and in 10 years they will be the #1 in the world with India and Liberal economies will turn into the Controlled system again like in 1930 and 1970s.
So driving ferrari is not pumping economy just pumping ego.
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It is certainly more than just the mismanagement of resources.
"Not our fucking business" - yet external factors are at play.
Global politics is a reality. "I'm not here this isn't happening" is a poor course of action (or, rather, inaction).
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I wish they had better living conditions. That's my view on their poverty.
In terms of solving it, wtf? I'm just some guy, and it's way too complex of an issue to boil down to a paragraph.
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people try (my uncle's a diplomat and he's in charge of meeting with authorities in Africa to encourage things like agriculture)
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The problem is that Agriculture is giving most of the farmers a bad return and if they try to sell to western countries they get to high penalties.
In other for them to get a healhty living standard they have to isolate and get themselves running because agreeing to trading etc.
The help they get are sometimes flawed. I remember back in the 90's when the German gov, gave aid to Africa.. the way it worked was.
Germany gives old Agricultural machines and vehicles, in return for cheap raw goods. there was just one problem, they didnt have the knowledge nor power etc to use this machines etc and thus they didnt gain anything from it.
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Let the whites rule them again (no racist), like the old days in South Africa and Rhodesia. Then stuff will get done properly.
Example: Congo. The Belgiums build a highway but after the indepence they didn't maintain it.
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Are you kidding? Please go to Wikipedia and search for Leopold II of Belgium. Africa would have been a better place if the white assholes never set a foot on that continent.
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hmm not really considering before the white man came, there was already wide spread slavery going on in Sub-Saharan Africa and cannibalism was very common between tribes. They would take prisonners and sell their meat in markets, those prisonners were alive before being butchered until a client choose which part he wanted.
It was shit before the white man came, and it was shit after he left. You should read about the first European explorers who got there.. No wheel, no trained animals, no crops, slavery and cannibalism.
Some of our European ancestors sure ain't went there to help, but they didn't destroy Africa like you can hear on TV either.
Western influence was probably the best thing to ever happen to the world. Decolonisation was a fiasco though. In the end slavery was also abolished by western powers anyway.
Anyway routemaster, being member of a nation which slaughtered over 3 million innocent Christians all over Anatolia not that long ago and enslaved much more people than the whole of Europe ever did. You have no right to call any people out-there "assholes".
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I assume your history is cleaner than a new born, hence not bringing up African colonies or French Indochina into the discussion. Now GTFO.
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I'm just stating my opinion. I have nothing against black people.
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But you just said they should be ruled by the white race because of their incompetence of running their own countries.
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Yes. For me that's more or less facts, nothing to do with any racism.
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He actually said the whites are far more superior than the blacks. But he is not a racist.
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I assume you are white, so a question from one white guy to another white guy; what makes us that precious so we should govern other nations?
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it's Belgians
and WE caused the genocide in Rwanda
We should've left them the way they were
just give them technology and ways to purify water
and ps are you a dutch nerd who uses a girl as his profile pic
want boerenlater is nie meteen de profielnaam vn een meiske
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Just to comment on the racist remarks against the OP.
I might not agree with him, but he is no racist. !! another thing to add to this discussion. most of the time (not always) racism is a word used to police people with opinions when there is no reason to police it, infact it only goes one way in our current world. (some countries are better to discard than others ofc)
The most stupid thing of all. People don't distingus between Racism and Discrimination!
Last comment.. its stupid to discuss Racism, because we are all the same race! take it as a man and fight your way back with cleaver words instead.
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Maybe I don't see it as racist because I don't see people in colours. Unlike you,
The Native Africans was inferior in modern ruling, but well thats pretty useless now ^^
As for the OP, I think he was ref. to the imperialism, thats how I see it, again. I do not agree with him, but I don't call racist each time I can't counter write in words.
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So if he had wrote "green, yellow or orange" it would make a difference ? if "white people" as a word is enough for you to call racism, then you have a problem im0.
Its so stupid that people still cry about this in this modern age, if he was discrimiating a individual then I could understand ^^
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Politics in general are not stuck on things like ethics and morals such as good and evil. If a dictatorship were to be necessary to improve the socioeconomic direction of a nation then it should be done regardless of whatever it seems like it is. I'm not saying a dictatorship would improve anything at all by any means but I'm just pointing out that your comment was just unnecessary.
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Can you please back up your claim with one single example?
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I agree. Monarchy is a form of dictatorship, in which one person rules, but it isn't inherently evil or bad.
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you prefer communism? or just total anarchy, survival of the fittest...
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i prefer education over armies and false wars to gain more cash for private corporations, social engineering is far more in depth in concern for human safety than you'd think, i believe that you should check some other ideas of building a society.
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was joke I know what's happening there...
and if we ever want to end the wars we should stop mass producing firearms
(I do like shooting sport but I think we do have a lot of firearms around the globe and don't have numbers on how many firearms are built each year)
and If we ever solve the problems in Africa
we have a long way to go...
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Sell a man a fish and he'll be fed for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you'll have ruined a perfect business opportunity. Summarizing, as long as there are two people left on the planet, someone will be selling them guns.
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true
but anyway let's face the truth
as long as there will be man
there will be war
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You're ignoring my point completely and flying off to the land of hypothesis and assumption as to where I never actually meant to lead you to in the first place. If a man doesn't know how to fish properly you can sell him fish you caught in front of him and profit out of it. This is believe it or not basically the entire secondary base of capitalism in a nutshell.
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Disarmament is usually a prelude to an atrocity. I say everyone over 25 with a clean bill of mental health and a little gun safety training should own an assault rifle. The world would be a safer, friendlier place.
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hahaha NO.
where I live that's not a good idea
people tend to crap their pants when they see kids with toy guns (I'm not joking)
I think people should learn the differences of guns and learn how to handle them
but not everyone should own an automatic rifle (not assault rifle people in the sport shooting community will nerd rage when you say assault rifle)
And some people just don't like the idea of having a firearm around
but you are right disarmament won't help
and the gun safety training will help
damn gun laws here do take away our godgiven right to protect ourselves
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There are actually alot of different forms of Capitalism and Socialisme, furthermere different regions and cultures, all have different ways to solve and run a country.
As for the US, they owe more money than all African nations combined and they score lowest all in aspect of stuff.. even poverty, not to mention their education sucks and are at a very low lvl compeared to example most Eurupean countries.
Since this discussion is about Poverty in Africa maybe we should stick to that.
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You do realize how terrible communism is don't you? Also it has never been implemented with any real success on a large scale.
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Unity. I'd spend a lot on uniting Africa. Africa has probably spent more on war and fighting than anything else, and war kills a lot of able, hardworking people.
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If humans want to operate efficiently as a multi-world species, I think that a one nation world would be required.
One government, one currency, the whole shebang.
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A one world government is probably the worst thing that could possibly happen. Governments should be as small as is possible and have as little power as possible.
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Unity lol... there is not unity anywhere else in the world (believe it or not) why would it be fast in Africa. As for war, Europe have been much more in war and fighting history wise..
But if we look at that thing, then we are way beyond our current topic and should talk about culture, religion and idealism instead.
Another side note. Sometimes war can bring profit ^^
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Chinese are trying to mine in Africa
for their own cheap recources
and they bring their own people so africans still can't get work
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...and other countries don't take advantage of their resources (including labour)?
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well yeah but the chinese build their companies without restrictions --> they give africans money but don't tell them they can't buy guns or start wars
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well...Asia is not a good example of failure right now... and America Latina is rising now, we are better than 90s; and Africa, sadly is the wasteland of this world, many corporations and others countries, take advantage of that, is not just a problem of the countries in Africa, is global.
poor and ignorant people is usefull for the people in power, but that is not new...
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Most of Asia is pretty bad. A few countries are doing really good.
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Well its pretty easy, Africans are poor because the avg joe is stupid (no offense) They lack education and thats really the key, you have to remember some of the worlds riches people live in Africa ^^ its a matter of milking the poor and stupid..
Another thing is the fact that Europeans and Americans, live well from the current situration in Africa... In some ways, we still benefit aswell as we did in the colonial days.
A side note.
The aid organisations are a joke, looke at their overhead and not to mention the people that benefit from it (often the rich line their pocked with the aid) the only good aid programs I've seen is national aids by giving better education..
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Its harder to Rush science than you think. first off they lack educated people and state wide funding for great programs, they are simple to far behind.
There is also a huge problem getting this to work, since maybe would do all to stop it, Europeans and Americans espicially gain alot from Africa being poor and behind ^^ believe it or not.
Some countries have the possibility to speed up this and even get well ahead of others (we have actually seen this in some parts of Africa)
You also have to remember that in the countries with democracy this will be slow paced (yes thats actually true) compared to a authoritarian country.
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All those well-educated people in the poor countries quite often move to a richer country instead of trying to make things better in the country they were born in. That's why immigration is actually a quite bad thing.
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You need to teach them that it's better to solve their problems with dialogue, collaboration, and unity. Not AK-47s. Good luck with that. Better off firebombing all of the rebel factions. Their "claim" to freedom always seems to be at the expense of the innocent population.
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wait, wait, wait...
"You need to teach them that it's better to solve their problems with dialogue, collaboration, and unity. Not AK-47s"
And then...
"Better off firebombing all of the rebel factions."
Did you mean "they think they're better off...." or are you suggesting they firebomb the rebel factions?
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No, in a nutshell what I said was that the chances of teaching them to solve their problems without guns is so small that you're better off just firebombing the rebel factions. They'll never agree to peace or unity unless they're the ones in power.
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Create a "Luxury Tax" that would be applied to every commodity which isn't an essential good. So from McDonalds to an Audi R8 everything would be taxed. Things like, computers which both serve as important access points to information/culture/etc as well as entertainment platforms would have a lower tax then, for example, a diamond ring which only serves a luxury purpose. Entrance to a nightclub would have an higher tax then, for instance, a movie ticket (even if it's a crappy movie), etc.
This tax would be enforced in EVERY DEVELOPED NATION IN THE WORLD. The revenue would be split first between third world countries and then by developing nations. Also, this money wouldn't be given to governments. It would be given to NGOs who would make sure the money would be spent on building water wells, free clinics, farmer markets, etc. instead of paying some random dictator to rape innocent girls.
This isn't a solution. Just one measure I think would help spread money around the world.
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Thats not going to happen.
There is several reasons for this. But one of the most simple is the fact that the vast majority of people, would not give up even a tiny bit of their high living standard, just to help others.
Then you also have to remember, that this would demand totaly unity in the world (thats not going to happen unless alias attack and kill almost all of us)
Another faulty thing you forget, just because its not a democracy does not means there is a dictator, in many areas it is much better for the African countries to pick authorianism instead.
Many countries and unions in the world that you call democracies, actually have higher tyrany and corruption than some countries you call dictoatorships (some of them are just authorian)
Take the united states as an example, they are very high on the corruption list, this is due to their system, it also gives to much ability to "buy" the power (lobbyism)
Last point, some African countries have a less % of pop thats poor than the States (In0 the states are a bad example, but people seem to have no clue)
Nah if you ask me.. Authorianism would benefit some African nations alot...
Also, giving poor countries money and making them rely on that is a even worse choice.
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Let me just say this as someone born and raised in Africa , The Africans hold on very tightly to their culture so It will probably be impossible to get them to live in houses rather than mud bungalows However if youve actually lived with them all that stuff that you see on the television and news is just a small part of Africa ! Go live there for 10 Years and then decide what you think of Africa because if Africa was not invaded by all the Europeans We would never have had as MANY problems as we do now . So Africas condition is a result of westernization ! Western thinking is terrible because the Wester world is driven by greed and they have taught that to Africa . Nothing anyone in the world does will change Africa . Throwing money at Africa wont Change it , Sending Missionaries wont change Africa . If the Western world would just mind its own fucking business for a change the Africans will stop killing each other and start building themselves up from their ashes . However this is very unlikely to happen so Africa will just keep tearing its self apart and replying on charity instead of building itself up .
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I agree. America (my country) and the rest of the west should pull out of the east region in general, not just Africa. We have our own problems to handle and don't need to keep wasting resources trying to help other countries when they obviously don't want our help. It is a waste of time for both sides.
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Also, United States of America. America is the only country in the Americas to have "America" in it's name, thus it has the right. If one is talking about the continents, they're gonna say either "North/South America" (if they're talking about only one) or "The Americas" if they're talking about both.
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Africa did suffer alot from the colonization, but also the entry of Abrhamic religions have mad it a warzone (and thats not a new problem!!)
There are alot of different cultures in Africa and I agree with you that they wont just change (even after the colonization)
The news certainly try to overdo alot of problems (they always do). they also seems to forget that alot of African Countries are doing very well and don't have major problems, they also seems to forget that the elite in Africa is a very very strong elite.
I still think more education and better toll agreements would help abit in the countries/areas that are trying to become modern.
I am very happy to see that you agree on the charity aid. its ruinign Africa more than helping it, it just makes you rely on it as I wrote before in this thread.
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Ive left Africa because I have been offered a good studying opportunity but my feelings remain the same few of us ever saw past charity most of the people who where in my school would never study cos they wanted to live off charity and welfare only me and a handful of others worked and somehow I got out of there and am not Studying in Spain . Thank god
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Let them die, then occupy and claim myself an African, achievement unlocked
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They wont die if Every Country trying to Aid Africa would take care of its OWN bloody Issues first then Africa can pull its self together !
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Africa was fine, as fine as any continent actually, before imperialism. I'm not saying "we" did that, we weren't even alive back then, but the guys who share the citizenship and all did that.
If only somebody could go back in time and convince old Victoria/Leopold/etc to do other stuff, such as invading America again or taking brazil from portugual (would be really cool).
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Thats not entirely true tbh.
You may argue that left untouched it might have been different in some aspects. You also have to remember that long before that people invaded eachtoher :) we can go back many 1000 years.
Africa suffered in many different time lines in history, so did all continents.
Your arguementation is pretty cheap, (even if all have a factor in history) but then I could claim that the Aksumite Empire fall is the reason for Sudan and Egypt to have so many problems today (see where I am going)
Its better to keep our discussion on the current reaons and how to diminish them.
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In some aspects it made it better aswell, all changes have their + and -
Thats why I rather not, that your try to pin point that as a major reason (since there is many)
Notice that I don't totaly disagree about the effects, but lets focus on the current problems and how to solve them now!
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we can never solve our problems only try to reduce them. in the end humanity's cruelty toward each other will be our destruction.
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I say the UN completely pulls out of Africa, let them fend for themselves. All the UN is doing with it's humanitarian aid is fucking things up for them by encouraging them to not grow and just live off the dole. People want to sit and talk about how horrible people like Mugabe and Kony are, yet there were people just like them 500 years ago in Europe.
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Well, we only portray people as bad, if they are bad for our interest (thats common knowledge)
One day a authorian ruler is a friend and keeping the peace, if interest shift he becomes a evil dictator. thats how the world works sadly.
I agree with the UN, I rather see major wars that are crazy, but would end the power struggle, its more benefitical (thats what happened in europe for over a 1000 years.
Thats only the problem in many other areas, we protect against the factors that helped shape Europe to a more stable region ^^
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Its pretty hard for them to work harder than they do, you have to remember they have huge tolls and some countries have inflation to the roof.
The avg joe is not asking for aid money (often they don't get it either, 70% is overhead at charity aid and they give it to corrupt "educated" people that smart it out to themselves.
Its hard to break the cycle they are in without a more educated population and without manipulation, but there is alot of hope, since there is progress in some countries and they do quite well..
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The problem is that there's no such thing as "the African problem". To believe in something like that is pure ignorance, and the idea that you've got the solution to it is pure arrogance on top of ignorance. First of all, Africa is huge, and contains many different climates, countries, ethnicities, and ideologies, so there's no point in coming up with one big solution to fix all of it. Besides that there are many different problems. There's poverty, lack of education, lack of healthcare, lack of infrastructure, widespread corruption, ongoing wars and revolutions, large areas with very little water/fertile ground, the exploitation of people and resources by foreign nations and corporations, and so forth and so forth. You can't hope to solve any one of these without addressing the others. There's no point in sending food if most of it is seized by a corrupt government. There's no point in educating children if they're dying of starvation. There's no point in building hospitals if they're going to get taken over by warlords.
If decades worth of international specialists can't think of a one-stop solution, a bunch of gamers who only know what they hear on the news certainly aren't going to do any better.
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We are not just gamers all of us, I got a masters in Pol.Science.
As you may have seen, alot of people argue that most of Africa is doing fine, they are discussing the problems in some regions and the big picture put up by the media.
Don't worry, not all people think Starving Marvin is the avg African.
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I don't think anyone claimed there was "the African problem" and he/she has the solution. I certainly did not. I did, however, open a thread to encourage discussion about about the poverty problem (and poverty IS a problem) many African countries suffer from.
The discipline of philosophy often poses questions that are inherently impossible to answer, and yet by discussion and thought man can elevate himself mentally. There is worth in trying to answer impossible questions - using your brain actually trains it. Look at Darkie - his/her intelligent and knowledgable replies have, for example, provided me with information and food for thought I did not have previously.
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As we all know, poverty is a problem is gigantic proportions in africa. From spending aid money on weapons to lack of education (or even clean drinking water) there is a basis for improvement that makes economists vomit with rage. Personally, though, I believe there is no problem that cannot be solved, even if the solution may elude the most educated men for centuries. Still, doesn't mean, we shouldn't try, right?
Here's your task: Solve the poverty problem in Africa. What would you do if you managed African ressources and wanted to improve the overall GDP within the next, let's say 10 years?
PS: There is no hidden giveaway here. Just like the economic climate in Africa, this thread does not give you anything for free.
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