Last changes
- Contributor lvl gain slow as hell
- Advertising now with Patreon banner and functions (Equivalent to "give me money pls" paypal donate button)
- Fresh strange point system
Motivation is decreasing more and more
Instead of those changes do something about gotys, dlcs, collections where users can participate several times, even though they own the titles. As written the bots will just change their interval and nothing will change except for the mass (as ever)
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I am confused. When did any change influenced "Contributor lvl gain slow as hell"?
cg can't do anything to fix the DLC problem as Steam does not report users owning the (most) DLCs.
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As Oppen said. Nothing can be done about DLCs / collections.
Steam doesn't report most of DLC user own You need to add someone to friend list, and then try to buy certain DLC and give it to user to see that "mskotor already own this DLC".
Only thing that could be done was to forbid users to enter in DLCs they previously won here. And it was implemented here
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20 points per hour..hmm..i dont like this new update
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Well I know no one will read this, but the new system sucks. I have been here daily for 4 years and now I will likely stop coming all together very quickly. cg, should have looked at this differently. 5 points every 15 minutes is garbage, I do, however like the level cap increase, but at my normal pattern of coming, I will never even come close to maxing out.
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Try to look it as a positive thing. For example, by having less points, you need now less time on the site, and you can dedicate more time to play those 900 games someone gifted you yet you never touched. They will feel better, you will feel better, totally win-win for everyone! \^_^/
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I don't like this system AT ALL
I'll repeat my comment from "discussion" topic:
MAIN «problem» with extremely simple solution. PPM so high cos of huge amount of GA from bundles ("mahjong" for everyone!). Do the same thing what you did with exp gain (for games from bundles). Game was bundled? Decrease points distribution for creating GS by 50-65% - problem solved! Beer for everyone.
There will be lots of bundles in the future, but with this - PPM graph will be much stable and straighter. At least without 50000+PPM "Everest". Just lower points distribution per created GA ONLY for "bundle games" list. Decrease by 65% I think is fair - there is a LOT of GA with games which was bundled once (year/two/five ago). Right now there are too many "old bundle games" list games in GAs, and more than 65% could significantly change this site in my opinion.
We will feel the bundles releases, but not with 2000PPD.
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While that sounds good on paper, generally a lot of giveaways are created before it's added to the bundle list, so in the end it wont make much of a difference.
It's like all those Outcast giveaways generating massive points because staff isn't expected to live here 24/7, which this would entail.
And you can't backwards recount points as you can CV.
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Lots of bundles are created with games already added to the "bundle list".
Yes, my thoughts not perfect, partly you're right, but it would be much better than it is now.
They wanna decrease time users spend on SG? They failed! For me it was 10-15 visits per day with 30 seconds each to join all my wishlisted games (vivat smartphones!). Now I waste x3 more time to choose GA to participate.
Yes, staff don't have to listen our opinion and we shoud be thankfull for their work... but... for me - new points distribution system was the worst decision admins made.
Some whiners want to increase minimum GA time from 1 to 6hr or even a day - if admins buy this... that would be their 2nd worst decision.
I think old system was better even with 300 points cap. IMHO
Thank you for your answer! Greatly appreciate!
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Hmm... so this is the reason points go up way slower than normally.
What are upsides?
- Generally I can either log in once a day and that's it or hunt 1 hour giveaways.
- Autojoin scripts... they shall get fewer entries (same as active users).
- Less active users have... same chances to win on daily basis as more active users (?!).
- Fewer entries, fewer scripted comments.
- Shorter time watching advertisements and/or commercials on the website ^^
- Generally I know I have no points and I won't have enough to enter some giveaways before they end... so no reason to lurk around.
- Shorter time here means... more time to be spend on my thesis :D
What are the downsides?
- I need to balance points more so I can enter giveaways I want to enter... this generally means entering high cost long term giveaways even if I don't want the games so I can exit and have points in the future... annoying bugging.
- If I want to make long train I need to expand time for it... or shorten it if I want to get more than 5 entries.
- Generally making many giveaways ending at the same time (basically most of my giveaways) now mean I'll have even fewer giveaways with more than 5 entries.
- I will never have enough points to enter all giveaways for the game I really want once it's released in the bundle.
- It's somewhat slowdown as I'm active on this site quite much so... now I'm quite much limited to discussions as generally I'm low on points... or generally spending less time on the site.
- Generally low level giveaways are goodbye, aren't they? Time to hunt short times high level giveaways :)
- Well, I join fewer giveaways, read fewer comments, descriptions inside... half of my WL is based on those.
- The system is somewhat boring... I visit website and have predicted number of points... still constant value. No big moments of surprise... and no more fun when new bundle shows up out of nowhere. Few times I even forgot about HB Monthly and then bang xD
To be honest I preferred old system. From my activity around the website and well, my greedy selfish perspective. Still, anyway I planned to tart with thesis from this week on so I guess this might be somewhat good ^^
I guess it's just a matter of changing behavior... but I simply don't like changes in systems, websites, balance changes in games.
Anyway, thanks for making this website work!
I think most people forget about it.
Some propositions/observations/questions:
I was wondering how about making number of points per time being variable on level of the user? Autojoin bots generally don't make giveaways, more active users would also have a chance to enter more giveaways. I don't mean much more just somewhat more. It's just a proposition though.
Also doing something with 5 entries limit would be nice... at least for public and/or only level limited giveaways if it's still the case.
[Edit]
It made me wonder... why bundled game have reduced CV value to giver but have original value to participant? Just saying/wondering.
More points for some special holidays (or extra ways to get points) would be nice, for example for Christmas or big Steam sales.
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"Also doing something with 5 entries limit would be nice... at least for public and/or only level limited giveaways if it's still the case."
Actually there hasn't been limit for Public ones for ages - you get CV even with 1 entry :)
"...why bundled game have reduced CV value to giver but have original value to participant?..."
Where did you take that? you get Bundled value for giver/winner both (check with sgtools)
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if it's still the case
I'm unaware of all the changes in the system. Better safe than sorry :)
@PieceOfMind understood me better... I was talking about points needed to enter and CV value.
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Yeah, np, just pointing about what's already here :) Same as I told to PieceOfMind, this 1:1 CV and entry points is not good :/
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I know... basically there are no good solutions, only the solutions we use here and there. That's why I said:
Just saying/wondering.
Hmm, I'll rename section name from Some propositions to Some propositions/observations. I just pointed few things that came to my mind after reading and let the administrators do their job - surely they have more experience in this case than me and they now what they are doing. Doesn't matter whether me and/or other users agree/disagree - it's their site after all :)
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Public giveaways don't have a 5-entry requirement for the creator to earn CV. For example, this giveaway I did ages ago received only 1 entry but I received CV for it.
EDIT.. Ninja'd by Hauakaevaja
@Hauakaevaja, I think he was talking about the points required to enter for bundle games mismatching with the CV they give the creator.
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Yup, he was a bit faster. Still it's 1:1 if you ask me :)
[Edit] I meant PieceOfMind vs Hauakaevaja09 xD
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I don' t think this CV and entry points should be 1:1, I think what is now is okay, but points regen should be twice as fast :/
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I feel like giving each level a 25 to 50 point cap increase would have been better.
That way people who give much could join more as a reward for making the site happen,
and botters would only have like 150 points unless they actually level up making them less ultra-leechy, and level 10s would have like 600.
But great that you're trying to do something about it :)
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These changes made surface such a miserable group of people...
So many people with around and below 5% *played* wins complaining about winning less and the site being "less fun".
You know more fun than entering giveaways, guys? Playing the games you entered for and won, instead of acting like an entitled child who wants another toy never to be played with.
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it's like a vice for them, like playing in a casino.
spend all points, win win win, wait to regen, spend more.
their wins are nothing just like people betting money.
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To react.
I like have good games and try to play as I can my wins with rules that I put myself:
-20 games played at the same time. You can think it's enormous but see my others rules.
-Giveup games only if it's extrememy boring (only once for a game I think unplayable).
-Can stop if you finish the game.
-No add to playable games if overal of succes is below 50%
-You can pick a game on backlog when you have 50% or more.
So rules push me to explore games before giveup and play better I think.
The other side is I can't play every game at the same time but I will in theory by beginning by the better strangest or funniest that I think.
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I'll be short as I have to go. Check the lower right corner of your stats https://i.imgur.com/ijpgwoo.png
you at least bothered with 24% of your games to unlock at least 1 achivement. You started them and tried, or something. People with exactly ZERO % are complaining about winning less. Someone with 1k wins and 3-5% "at least 1 achivement" score complaining about winning less, and/or the site being less fun.
I feel like your stats show that you try your games at least, so don't feel like you need any excuse. This is why I emphasize the getting at least 1 ach. stat, and not finishing games, because not every game is as fun a sit looks like. But one can try:)
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Sorry, I fell pointed with your reaction of miserable group of people.
I had try to explain why this system is not so good as some think.
It will be more strategik and more like poker point lacking.
In fact strategik users will win more than lambda users and the goal to spend less time on SG will not being atteint.
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I already give my reasons why user won't spend less time on sg with that system:
-Optimisation by looking for best using of points cause they are rare now.
-Looking for how the other using points on rush times and using it like on poker then you tink the other are in lack of points.
-Concentration on only some ga and decrease of entries on the other and no entries trying.
Future will by interesting ;)
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I am happy with the new changes although it would be cool if we got a little more points per 15 minutes - like 10, but i might have just seen more giveaways now because of the changes, and the current changes to turn out more than okay. Anyway - thanks for listening and improving the site based on the users' feedbacks!
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Holy shit, that was a realy bad change
I lack points all the time now xD
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I don't mind the changes, I even like them, but that's still not the thing that I'm looking for.
What I want the most are fixes to expensive games that I gave away and they count still as 0 points.
I have only a few, but I guess there are hundreds of those.
Examples from my sent list:
PAYDAY 2: Ultimate Edition (2 Copies) (0P)
Battleborn (0P)
Darksiders™ (0P)
Darksiders II (2 Copies) (0P)
on the other hand the game (base only) that I won, counts to me somehow as "Complete collection" (Aliens: Colonial Marines Collection)
thanks for spoiling my ratio :P
btw I think that when there will be really good and expensive games given away (f.x. from HB monthies), then small giveaways with short duration won't get even 5 entries...
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- PAYDAY 2: Ultimate Edition was originally "PAYDAY 2" (without the DLCs) but they converted it to "Ultimate Edition" with the same AppID, so all the GAs created before the conversion would unfairly get more CV. I don't see an easy solution for this case.
- Battleborn is now F2P, as happened with a lot of games, like DOTA 2. No solution.
- The original "Darksiders" includes Darksiders Warmastered Edition, open a support ticket so they can change your giveaways to this version and you'll get CV again.
- Darksiders II was removed from the store, you can open another ticket so they can manually add the last price registered to SG database.
EDIT: regarding Battleborn, if you gave the full version you could ask them to change your game to Battleborn: Full Game Upgrade
DLC, because the original includes the DLC: https://steamdb.info/sub/102340/apps/
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You didn't understand me.. I don't care what they are now, I gave them away when they were still unbundled games and costed a lot.
I know very well, why they are now 0 points, but that's not excuse and not my point.
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That's how this site works and that's what you have to do if you want part of your CV restored. I only wanted to help.
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okok, I know how it works, that's why I want it to be fixed :)
You know, I would not buy them and not give them away if I know that they are going to be free or priceless now, but I still did and someone won it.
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It can't be fixed because this site depends on Steam API. So you'd better ask Gabe :)
My suggestions are workarounds and you'll recover all your CV from these games except the CV from PAYDAY. I personally lost around $300 of CV for games that became F2P.
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I know it's connected to steam store, but what I would like is to make some permanent point for them with their last price, I don't do it just for myself (of course mainly for myself) but there are probably thousands of people like me, so it should be already solved. I'm kind of pedant you know ;p
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I would like is to make some permanent point for them with their last price
If you're talking about games that became F2P (DOTA 2, Battleborn...), it can't be done. If you're talking about games removed from the store (like Darksiders II) it's possible to manually add the last price before it was removed from the store, and also re-add the game to the database if someone wants to create a giveaway for a removed game.
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We should give the new system a chance. It will take some time for the GA probability to adjust and we should not look at the stats atm. It's only been a day. We'll see if it works in a week or two. :)
Average win chances with the new system (rounded up to 500p to spend per day):
Entering 10p games with 1:2000 average entries = average 1 game per 40 days
Entering 10p games with 1:1000 average entries = average 1 game per 20 days
Entering 10p games with 1:500 average entries = average 1 game per 10 days
Entering 10p games with 1:250 average entries = average 1 game per 5 days
Meaning:
- Bots are at a disadvantage, since they cannot choose what to enter or not (which is great and hopefuly removes them alltogether)
- People who log in every hour still have an advantage
- You have to choose wisely what you want to enter (or not it's up to you)
- We can still check the site often for those 1 hour GA chances
- While you do the hourly check you make choices what GA's to enter
- That means people will probably swap from GA's a lot in the remaining hour, or check hourly and then decide which GA's to enter
- Banking does not really help because the chance remains the same, it is only shifted to a later week. You can enter more GA's then... but gave up on the earlier GA's so it balances out.
I disagree with the "less points regeneration/less time on the site" argument :).
It will come down to personal strategy and time you can spend on the site.
Will you only enter GA's with 500 entries or less, or go for the big title games.
will you bank and pass out on GA's or not. Will you do hourly checks or save up 500p to go on a entering spree.
In the end we should all feel lucky whenever we win, have fun playing those won games, stop arguing and give it a try.
See if it works and re-evaluate in a week or two. :)
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Some counterpoints:
- But they can just join each 1-hour giveaway without regards for the title, and have massive chances since most people abandon those for lesser games. Meaning much higher success rate for bots, making them far more attractive for people into that.
- Which is counter to the apparent goal behind this point-change, making it all... pointless.
- True, but I still think lesser points but dynamics intact would be better than this static system
- Indeed, thus not changing anyone's behavior of frantically checking at all, which this was supposed to counter.
- Busywork.
- More busywork. Also more need to actively use the site, rather than passively as intended.
- That's under the assumption supply is equal. You bank during the Playstation bundle when nothing interesting is there, cash out for the Monthly. Seeing the amount of 1H giveaways after a bundle release, and the static points, banking is your best shot for bundle-releases, and will definitely give you the advantage, maybe even requiring it to have a shot at new bundle releases all-together.
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Yeah I also feel it is a lot more busywork.
Well just have to see how this enfolds I guess:)
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you can set fixed time for rolling. for example 00:00, 08:00 and 16:00. Or 00:00 and 12:00. Or every 2 hours.
with a minimal awaiting time 1 hour. so, if i create a GA at 23:45, it will be rolled the next iteration, not 00:00.
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so no point to do long giveaway trains anymore as noone would be able to get to the end with this point recovery speed
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Perhaps I missed an explanation in the 9 above pages, but why do deleted giveaways/giveaways for games that you won after entering them (and thus are automatically removed from) not give back the points you invested in them? Unless this was already a thing before the big change and I just didn't notice it because of the plethora of points coming from the plethora of giveaways...
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It's been like this since before this change and as far as I can tell it can be considered a bug, or at least a missing feature waiting to be implemented.
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I think this new system has merit, but needs points to be given quicker.
I'm having to come here every hour just to see if I've got enough points for any GAs that are about to end
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I mean, for people like me who have almost every single game they want it will become harder to get games, because everyone will get more points.
500 points is heavy.
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The reload time is too slow or it is good for leechers (Level 0), but it could be faster as leveling up.
Level 0: 5/15minutes, Level 1: 6/15minutes, Level 2: 7/15minutes, Level 3: 8/15minutes, Level 4: 9/15minutes, Level 5: 10/15minutes,
Level 6: 11/15minutes, Level 7: 12/15minutes, Level 8: 13/15minutes, Level 9: 14/15minutes, Level 10: 15/15minutes.
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+1, this seems cool. i myself am not high level but people who are have proven (or so i think) that they are not here just to leach others ga's so they should be rewarded for their contribution for this community.
this would also greater motivate people to ga and achieve higher levels.
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+1
Well, not to be those exact, but still admins have to see how much extra games there are for every next Level. ;)
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I don't know if it's just my impression but I think my wishlist giveaways are gradually getting less and less entries than before, because people will start to feel the need to enter only what they like or points will run out fast, so thank you so much for these changes cg.
As far as the entry point cap i have no formed opinion because i dont usually enter for 60 points AAA games that i know my toaster will not run properlly.
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Here's a few comparisons for before and after the update, to see the difference in entry numbers. It will of course vary depending on the game, but the numbers are pretty illustrative.
My method for these was to go through the archive of finished giveaways, and choose a particular game and level and check for giveaways that ran for somewhere between 55 and 70 mins (flash GAs).
Tattletail
Before update:
Lvl2 - 362 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/c4BXE/tattletail
After update:
Lvl2 - 189 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/Nb3oQ/tattletail
Lvl2 - 263 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/t4Ccl/tattletail
The Corporate Machine
Before update:
Lvl0 - 618 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/sAGfN/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 443 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/BRv8Q/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 402 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/xxtPG/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 714 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/Ec1Em/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 678 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/BvXx6/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 630 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/fwJR3/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 361 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/VN3NI/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 272 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/OsNZ7/the-corporate-machine
After update:
Lvl0 - 123 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/erpBK/the-corporate-machine
Lvl0 - 196 entries. https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/BMXNP/the-corporate-machine
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You could check for yourself. I don't have any more time tonight to do it.
https://www.steamgifts.com/archive/closed
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+1
We all keep pushing it get more points in higher levels, as we have more games to choose from. ;)
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In my experiences & when has been written here:
1 Users receive 5 points every 15 minutes.
Well this is the "worst thing", as it's not the same for people who are on higher levels to gain access to more giveaways & the same amount of points as those on Level 0. So if we keep this receiving of P per time only, then people on higher Levels should earn more points in those 15min. How much? Well, see how much more games they got to choose from. If it's 40% increase of access to games from Level 0 to Level 1, then give people 40% more P or +2P per those 15 minutes.
To be frank with you all, I prefered the old system, as more points poured in from games, you got more to spend. True Capitalism.
2 The point cap has been increased from 300 to 500 points.
I like this increase to 500P, but it's still not enough P. As we see that 45k P we have in Sep, so it means than in 30 days you only earn 15k P or can enter 30% of giveaways.
Also, to reach 500P you need 100 times per 5P per 15min, which is 1500min, which is 25h. So actually you can't reach 500P in a 24h period, as you can only get 480P if you play frequently here! Which is also bad calculation by it own.
What I'd like more is to have is a "average of last 3 months" & people get 1/3 of that in P monthly or 1/90 P daily (or make it any fix percentage you'd like, but make it fix percentage of the all giveaways). We can expect that 45kP not going to be last long & it's going to increase in future. So in order to do the math, we have to have some kind of calculations. Saying that it's 500P today per day might not be enough in Jan 2018, so that's why 500P is a bad thing.
& if people give more, we should have more points per month. If people give less, we all should have less points to enter. Again Capitalism, or should I stop playing Civilization? :D ;)
3 The maximum number of points to enter a single giveaway has been decreased from 100 to 50 points.
Well, this is not a good thing either, as many expensive games or software is now capped & not worth as ti should. If the software is $100, why not list it as 100P? If people want it, let them earn it.
Hope you all like the inputs. & BAN those auto-scripts fro 2+ weeks & they stop doing that. ;)
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Before level 0 would still get the same amount as the point generation didn’t care who really could ebter those gas
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Yes, but you were pumped by the P that were given...on Level 0 you got the P from that Level & when you leveled up, you seem to got more points as you were collecting points from Level 0-X. ;)
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huh, what are you talking?
everybody always got the same points
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How is everyone being equal "unfair"? It is the goddamn definition of "fair".
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Well, being on Level 0 you got (for example) 100 games to choose from, but on Level 2 you got 150 games to choose from.
So why would anyone on Level 0 earn P on games posted in Level 2 or Level 6 or Level 9?
But it's an ex-system...so leave it be! ;)
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I really would like to know where users get the fairy tale of high-level treasure trove from, because in reality, 0.3% of the giveaways have been made for the highest two levels, whereas the lowest two levels make up 70%.
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Hi SG,
After the recent discussion, updates to the point system are now live. They are as follows:
I think these adjustments will provide a number of improvements for the site. However, I'll keep an eye on user feedback, and try to make sure the changes are working as intended and meeting the needs of the community.
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