You have 1 Community Market listing on hold.
luller must have something against that person? -shrug-
There wasn't anything wrong with that thread. It actually provided relevant information, whereas this thread is borderlining spam and was probably just an excuse to throw up a pointless poll. It doesn't even have a giveaway. At least it was filed under Off-Topic I guess.
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Is there any good reason for you to not have the mobile guard on?
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Even with mobile guard it is bullshit. Needing to confirm every listing regardless of price is not security, it is a pointless waste of time.
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Really? I remember I only needed to confirm prices for a bit more expensive items.
Either way, I prefer mobile guard then emails confirmations or any other kind of security that has been in place. Just the fact that you don't need to wait 7 days to trade/sell on a new bandwidth/computer is a win for me
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Yup, came with the change. As someone you builds wallet from cards, selling them in the hundreds is beyond tedious.
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Wasn't aware, seems kind of retarded to confirm every single item. I guess if people still want to make some money on cards they've got to deal with it =/
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Hey Cj, in some other thread I was reading you are using auto confirm with WinAuth. Do you know if this also works for the Desktop Authenticator? What are the differences between these two programs, do you happen to know?
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You must have me confused with someone else since I'm using my phone. Can't really help since I don't know the answer, sorry :(.
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Ah, thanks anyway, TheCyberDruid knew the answer :)
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Yep, the Desktop Authenticator just got an update and it has auto confirmation now. I actually switched from my tablet to the authenticator because of that ;)
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I only had to confirm one listing, out of around 10 I made last night. Their FAQ also state that people using the mobile guard shouldn't see any change.
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I guess Valve just hates me because I'm being forced to confirm for every card. Tried it again a few minutes ago and no change :/.
Edit: Have you ever used the refund system by chance?
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No, never have. Probably why I'm also among those who get card drop within the first 2 hours of play as well.
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I wonder if that might be the issue since I've refunded a few times. Wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.
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I wouldn't be surprised, either, but it seems a bit asinine of Valve to punish people for using a feature they advertised quite heavily and actually encouraged people to use for a while there ...
My relationship with Gaben is becoming a confusing one, where I love Steam, but hate Valve. :X
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I've never refunded anything and I had to confirm every listing I made today... argggghh
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maybe it doesn't work on his phone. (for example the steam guard and trade confirm doesn't work on my phone and tablet, only chat and store works in the steam app -.-)
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That sounds weird a couple of functions working and others malfunctioning. There's still alternatives if people can't work with a mobile device
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Do you have push notifications enabled? Also, I've noticed that sometimes a notification will pop up on one of my computers and/or phone that has Steam open but not show an alert on the other devices.
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yep, btw i can't even check it inside the app itself, at confirmations and at steam guard it just shows nothing.
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If Voe is you, you can afford a new phone :p
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Looks Scandinavian. Oh God, I want to go to a Scandinavian country so much. <3
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Yeah I'd travel for the likes of her too xD Probably better than these Irish women lol <3
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And better than a lot of Greek women. :/ Meehh, c'est la vie.
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Ah who am I kiddin, I'm an alco and a nerd, so I probably wouldn't have a chance with those kind of women xD Forever alone :'(
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Cut the alcohol. :B Being a nerd though isn't necessarily bad. ;)
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Well I am Irish, so stop being Irish? Hmm lol well I'm not too bad, I only drink every 2-3 days now xD You tell that to women :P
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Every 2-3 days doesn't sound bad. o.O Maybe you drink big quantities though? :P
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I used to be able to drink 12 pints (568 ml) a night, Now 3/4 is my limit and I'm fucked xD I think it's my liver telling me I'm dying lol
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568 ml? Are you sure? That's a bit more than a bottle of beer here in Greece. Is that supposed to be a lot? o.O What's 3/4? You mean 3/4 of 568 ml or 3-4 pints?
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https://www.instagram.com/emiliemnereng/?hl=en probably digs for gold though.
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There wasn't really a lot of information about her. o.O But I checked her out on instagram, from a link that a guy posted above.
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If I'm correct steam doesn't support windows phones. Still Nezarn posted a solution for you =)
There's a couple of programs that will let you run the mobile guard with your laptop/desktop
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I wonder how safe it is to give your account details to a third party but I guess I don't have a much choice.
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I think it's safe to use an android emulator on your pc for this. You are not given your account details to third party.
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No, Valve apparently assume everyone on the planet owns an iPhone, then as an afterthough they cobbled together some Android version.
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Its not just valve. Pokerstars did the same and they probably make way more money then valve does. Its a world generalization sadly
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a) privacy. We can't possibly give Valve more personal info after what happened on Christmas last year
b) phones are a security risk - they are the 1# hacked devices on the planet. E-mail guard is much safer
c) you lose your phone, you're locked out of your account for a long time, possibly permanently
d) some people don't have Android/iOS smartphones, and/or can't afford one
e) it doesn't work well. I have a new HTC, tried to install the app, it keeps screaming there's not enough free space for it. Appereantly 2GB of free space is not enough.
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The Android version is more or less getting bashed since release. The list of complaints is… almost humorously high.
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loose phone ? cant you use bluestacks insted then ?
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Yes. Android emulators work, mostly...and Winauth apparently has been adding more functionality beyond generating steam guard codes like auto confirmations for market transactions, so no need for memory hogging emulators.
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But doing that, you're pretty much locket out of your account anywhere but at home. I log in at more than one place, and not having access to Steam Guard on the go I would have settled for email confirmations as well.
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a) A service didn't run perfectly in perpetuity. So what? A partially or fully successful hack or misconfiguration is to be expected at some point of every service. Nothing is impenetrable, no one is perfect. At least it was a misconfiguration, not an actual hack. Shit happens. You just have to hope they can maintain a high standard of care. That's all you can do, else you have to stay on Tor and only use throwaways because privacy is forever in peril. Also, what personal information are you giving Valve in order to do Steam Mobile? A phone number. Big whoop.
b) I don't even know where you get this sort of statement from. I've never had to help someone with a malware-ridden phone. I have had to help with a malware-ridden computer many times. More importantly the known Steam phishing and hacking attacks have all been desktop OS based--all Windows, IIRC. If/when the Steam attacks go after Android/iOS users, either through vulnerabilities in the OS/app or through social engineering, then your point may have merit.
c) There's the recovery code. It's what allows you to get into/reset your account even when lose access to your authentication device. This is true for all good 2FA. And as with all good 2FA if you don't have access to the device or the recovery code, then you are either permanently boned or you're going to have to put in major effort to prove you deserve access to the account/service. As it should be.
d) If you can afford to have a computer sufficient for gaming, and buy games, you can afford a smartphone. Anyone who can afford to have a desktop computer and internet access sufficient to use Steam should be able to get a smartphone for literally for a couple dollars if they really need one. Anyway, the sort of people that can't afford smartphones aren't likely to have much use for the market as they don't have a lot of games in the first place. Because they don't have money for smartphones. And even if the other points weren't true, and even if it weren't true that Windows Phone doesn't have a Steam Mobile app, if a person just needs to be able to authenticate and confirm, they can use an Android VM. Since you think computers are more secure than phones this shouldn't be a problem.
e) Sometimes an app has problems with being perfectly compatible with a wide variety of hardware for a very diverse platform. AFAIK this isn't a big Steam Mobile issue. But maybe it is. I don't know. I just needed to write something for e. Personally, I have a Moto G. It isn't fantastic, but it's very inexpensive, more than good enough, and most importantly to this discussion--stock Android.
f) I'm not a Valve fanboy. I mean, maybe I am. I dunno. Maybe I'm the biggest fanboy ever, and I have a GabeN tattoo on my left tit. Or maybe I don't. Anyway, it just seems like you have a bit of a bone to pick with them so I chose to counter each of your statements. A couple I think are just flat wrong or misleading. Others are solid criticism that I chose to counter anyway, because of the tone of the entire post.
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a) not an excuse for a massive data breach. Also, phone number alone is a pretty big deal. Suddenly the asshole who beat you at DOTA2 has an identity. A phone number. This opens multiple possibilities. I won't go into detail, I don't want to write a tutorial on harasing people.
b) in 2013, the most hacked mobile device was.... the iPhone. There are multiple articles, just Google. Android phones can be hacked with a malicious MMS (yes, this goddamn hole is still open) and in many other ways. The numbers go into hundreds of thousands a year.
c) I'd rather have a 2FA on something I can't physically lose. Recovery codes are easly lost or forgotten. But yeah. Anyway, my e-mail is infinitely more secure than my phone. If I had to permanently attach a thing to my precious Steam account, a physical device that can be lost would be the last.
d) Not really. You can get a computer for gaming for cheap, or you may have bought one and then things turned really bad, preventing you from buying a smartphone. Thing is, Steam app doesn't really work well with older, cheap smartphones. And to use SMA you need Internet access, and that is problematic, and usually means you have to get a mobile plan, which is an additional cost.
And what?! Just because some people are poor means they don't matter?! You're an asshole.
Anyway, the point is that people have Windows phones, for example, and these are pretty legit. Other people DON'T want to have a smartphone (as soon as my plan expires, I'm getting rid of my HTC and I'll get a normal phone - I need a tool for work and comms, not a toy). Sure, Android and iOS dominate the market, but Valve has essentially cut off everyone who doesn't have one of these two. And that's a lot of people. Using a Virtual Machine is problematic as well. I log in to Steam from various places, my home, my office, my girlfriend's house, often in a different city (I travel sometimes)... it'd be a pain in the ass to make sure I have a VM installed everywhere. And what if it gets corrupted or deleted? And I don't have my rec key on me?
e) It sure is a SMA issue. There are untold (literally) thousands of apps that work on all phones, with their only requirement being a specific OS or newer, while Steam's app just doesn't work well. Their mobile app is just sloppy. They screwed it up. I studied Applied Computer Science, I've had to write a mobile app for Android on my third year. I wrote an Internet browser with on-line chat, for fun. It worked on all deviced that had Android Gingerbread or newer. If I could do that, Valve should be able to do better.
f) That's an odd way to approach things. Are you a Sith? Only Sith deal in absolutes.
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a) It was a misconfiguration that revealed the information of users attempting to visit specific pages randomly to other users trying to visit the same pages. A caching error. It affected a tiny portion of Steam users. It was not the same as a targeted attack that allowed for a specific target to have information revealed. It isn't irrelevant, but it wasn't what you're pretending it is.
b) "The most hacked mobile device in 2013" does not back up your original assertion that mobile devices are bigger security risks than computers. Valve's concerns regarding security are limited to Steam accounts--which heretofore have been compromised via the Windows OS.
c) Your preferences regarding 2FA have no bearing on whether mobile devices have been useful and secure authenticators (they have) compared to the alternative (no 2FA).
d) Nice ad hominem red herring. I never said poor people don't matter. Learn some reading comprehension. The fact is, for someone to be majorly affected by the new rules regarding the market and trades, they need to actually have more than just the occasional trade, which means they need to actually have a lot of items. The overwhelming majority of people using Steam aren't sitting in a shack with nothing but a computer and a broadband connection. The overwhelming majority of non-casual users affected by this change have the financial resources, or can engage an alternative method like running a VM for authentication.
e) You say Steam Mobile is terrible, but I don't actually hold your opinion in high regard. Might wanna find some more meat on that bone.
f) Please work on your reading comprehension. There's nothing there about dealing in absolutes.
Edit: For technical accuracy. A breach is as a breach does.
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a) Still unacceptable. An error on level that basic ruins the trust. It was embarassing.
b) https://www.quora.com/Computer-Security/Are-mobile-phones-more-susceptible-to-being-hacked-than-computers (mentions various research and data, only Verizon denies it, but they have an interest in denying) ; http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/32507/are-smartphones-at-least-as-safe-as-regular-computers-for-personal-data (included because mostly experienced people post there) - most Steam accounts are hijacked, not hacked, via phishing or scams. Now phones, these can be breached in many different ways.
c) K. I guess.
d) Ad hominem red herring? Let me quote you: "Anyway, the sort of people that can't afford smartphones aren't likely to have much use for the market as they don't have a lot of games in the first place.". This is how I understood this: Since people that can't afford smartphones won't be using market much, screw 'em. What about people who don't want a smartphone or don't have an SMA-compatible smartphone? Or a blackberry? Huh? Screw them, too, because they picked the "wrong" phone?
e) So basicly you don't know how to argue this point. Good. It's okay not to hold my opinion and experience in high regard, I'm just a random dude on the Internet who values his anonymity. But you could at least do basic research before speaking - general consensus among mobile software engineers is that SMA isn't well written, and doesn't work well.
f) You sure? You quite literally said "I disagree with some of what you've said, so I'll argue all of it because of the tone". "None or all" are absolutes, aren't they?
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Backwards!
f) If you say you like Ghost Dad, Zardoz, Battlefield Earth, and The Godfather, I can criticize them all even if I love The Godfather. That has nothing to do with absolutes. Stop being obtuse.
e) The general consensus of software engineers. Link to that like you linked to evidence of mobile devices being less secure. Oh wait, your links there were nonsense.
You expressed an opinion as if it were gospel, and I treated it like the anecdote it was. If you want to persuade with a general consensus then demonstrate it.
d) "Asshole" ad hominem. Red herring because what you interpret is mock outrage nonsense for the poor. All I pointed out was that the vast majority of people who do a lot with the market aren't living hand to mouth, and not only can the vast majority of them afford to have a cheap Android device, but even if they couldn't, if they really wanted to use the market, they could put a little trust into a desktop authenticator.
You mentioned Blackberry. Hahaha. I almost believed in your troll. Let's mention Windows Phone, an actual minor player in the market, unlike Blackberry, which is a zombie. Well, Steam Mobile for WP doesn't exist. But you could say ____ for WP doesn't exist for lots of different things. It's a minor platform. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
Very, very few people absolutely can't get past this authentication thing. That's the point of being dismissive. Steam has tens of millions of active accounts, and many--perhaps most--do almost no trading or marketing. Of the ones that do, only a small percentage don't have a mobile device, and of the ones who have a mobile device that doesn't run iOS or Android, that's only a small percentage. And then even those people can run a desktop authenticator or emulate Steam Mobile. And even if one is paranoid and doesn't want to run an desktop authenticator, they could do it in a sandbox or VM that has no way to phone home.
c)KNY
b) I don't want to be too negative regarding your efforts in finding support for your statements because that's the right thing to do but the links themselves do little. I think I liked it better when you just pretended that your original assertion was true and that I was just supposed to accept it.
The reality is that the nexus for attacks on Steam accounts has been Windows OS--not mobile. That's irrespective of how you feel about mobile security. And I bet somewhere in those links someone probably mentions the difference between safety and security. As it relates to Steam accounts to this point in time, regardless of which of mobile or desktop is more secure, mobile is far safer. Now that may change, but until that change comes it is what it is what it is what it is.
a) Trust is important. That's precisely why there's no mass exodus of users from the Steam service nor are there continued heated discussions about Valve's massive failure in December. Because everyone realizes stuff happens sometimes. Valve hasn't lost that much trust. Or is there a general consensus I'm unaware of?
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Reverse! You're trying to confuse me! I shall play your game!
f) No, seriosuly. What do you call it then, when you argue everything because you don't want to argue only a part of my post?
e) Do your research. Look around. Read. You obviously don't trust what I'm saying, so put some effort.
d) Excuses excuses excuses. Some people don't have an iPhone or Android smartphone, or don't want a smartphone. I keep asking what about these people, and you keep dodging the question.
b) The first link contains links to actual research done on that topic, by companies that deal with this crap daily. If that can't persuade you, nothing can. I can't teach a blind-born man about colours.
"The reality is that the nexus for attacks on Steam accounts has been Windows OS--not mobile" - like I said before, that's not because these people are hacked, but because they are f*cking stupid. They get phished, scammed, or download viruses themselves. As opposed to phones which are actually, literally, being hacked by thousands, daily.
a) There is no mass exodus from Steam for two reasons. First, people are stupid and are fanatical fanboys - they will sell their mothers for Steam's -75% discount, they will defend Steam at all costs, all the time, disregarding all logic. "Glorious PC master race saviours" etc is a meme some people truly believe.
Secondly, and MUCH more importantly, you can't get away from Steam. You can't take the games/licenses you own. They are being held hostage by a company that doesn't own neither the copy of the game nor the license for it. So the number of users can't possibly decrease. However, GOG is booming. People don't want to buy Steamworks games, and when they have that option, they take it.
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Your entrenched anti-Steam position, obtuseness regarding how Steam accounts have been compromised, and generally pedantic or rigid points have not persuaded me, nor do I think you've effectively countered anything I've said, but clearly no matter what I say you're just going to reply to the contrary.
We're not getting anywhere. We're just ships passing in the night. I guess in this analogy I'd be solidly in the Port of Steam while you're going out to that big blue wide in search of something or other or another. Cool.
I'll keep you in mind if I ever want to bitch and moan about every aspect of the Steam experience.
Cheers.
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Meanwhile you're refusing to accept that sometimes Steam screws up, and that even with SMA, people will still be scammed. Just now a dude posted on Steam forums that despite using SMA he lost his items. Can't cure or block stupidity of people that gave Steam to force SMA upon us (the 77k people/month, that Valve themselves classified as victims of scams and phishing, not hacking).
Alright, let's just agree to disagree then, good call.
Good luck and see ya.
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Where do you find my reluctance to accept that Valve are fallible?
Again your misinterpret me because of your bias.
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I thought we agreed to disagree.
Where? In the places where you keep making excuses for Valve's amateurish cache incident, their sloppy app, and the fact they punish users for not having an iOS or an Android smartphone (which are not mandatory to live, last time I checked some people prefer phones over toys, or have a Windows Phone/Blackberry <yes, people still use them!>).
Punish, how?! Well, during the next sale, people without these two types of smartphones won't be able to sell off their Steam Sales cards, and this can be a hit, as those cards can amount to a cost of a single game... (every big sale I got to buy one game from selling Sale Cards alone, not anymore I guess)
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You are again interpreting things without basis in fact. I decided I wasn't going to continue to contest the specific points we were arguing, and I made a characterization of your behavior. You made a characterization of mine, but also another nonsense interpretation of what you think I believe.
"Meanwhile you're refusing to accept that sometimes Steam screws up, and that even with SMA, people will still be scammed."
Except I contested the degree of your outrage and offense regarding December's incident, not whether or not it happened. No one said it wasn't a screw up, if you go back and read what I said you will find inconsistent an intelligent parsing of what I said and the conclusion that I "[refuse] to accept that sometimes Steam screws up".
And I never proclaimed that 2FA is infallible. Again you infer a position I do not advocate. My specific contrast of 2FA was with the absent of it. I prefer 2FA to no 2FA. You can infer nothing approaching a belief in its infallibility.
The sloppiness of the app is your opinion. I'm sure others may share it. Regarding a general consensus regarding its sloppiness in contrast to other apps from reputable firms--I have not seen one.
Only having apps for the two dominant OSes may be imperfect, but it is hardly "punishing" people who own lesser, older, marginalized smartphones as this marginalization exists throughout their phone experience and app catalog. It isn't Valve ignoring them, it's most everyone ignoring them. Do you endeavor on behalf of WP, Blackberry, et al users whom are shut out of other services and features because of their choice of an inferior mobile platform?
Let me digress a bit with an example. Most American cable companies (as well as the large traditional telcos who have made their way into the market like Verizon and AT&T) have apps that allow subscribers to view television programs on their mobile devices. In the case of my own cable provider (DirecTV), they initially had an iOS app and took quite some time to come around with an Android app. I understood that first targeting iOS had the benefit of an extremely popular base of compatible devices sharing similar hardware and features in contrast to the fractured chaos of Android. It was easier and more lucrative at that time to ensure that one had an iOS app. But I didn't like it. I don't like Apple mobile devices. I don't want Apple mobile devices. So I had to wait. However, I didn't think Apple, or DirecTV, or Google, or anyone was punishing me. I understood that there were realities beyond what can possibility make every consumer happy, or feel warm deep down inside because they are special. I also noticed that this iOS-Android gap existed in quite a few other areas. I again accepted it as part of the tradeoff, not as punishment.
Anyway, my problem isn't that there isn't a point to be made regarding the incident in December, or the absence of support for other mobile OSes, or that the new restrictions are excessive, or that having to confirm listings over and over for most of what you do in the market isn't overkill, my problem is that your position on any of the individual criticisms you have had about Valve have been harsh, extreme, and short-sighted.
Contrary to what you want to "interpret", it isn't that I'm some huge fan of these recent changes. It's more that I think you're overstating them and being obtuse about it, and my points herein.
To use another delightful analogy, I'm not standing by proclaiming, "nothing happened!" after a man got punched in the ribs and stomach by another guy. I'm just telling the man who got punched that he's overreacting when he yells, "HE TRIED TO KILL ME! HE TRIED TO KILL ME!"
And the reason I agreed to disagree is because our argument had long since become unproductive. Your rebuttals to my positions are to try to undercut them by reducing each issue to a binary right or wrong, on or off, black or white sort of thing. I disagree. And this is why I have to respond when you say, "Meanwhile you're refusing to accept that sometimes Steam screws up, and that even with SMA, people will still be scammed." You can't find anything in what I said to indicate that sort of belief in the infallibility of Valve or their implementation of 2FA. That's not my position. The opponent who has that position, he exists, but I am not him, and as far as we are concerned here, he exists in your head through your bias tainting your ability to parse.
Cheers, big ears.
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Wow, that was a long post. Someone's tilted. Anyway, I am too lazy to answer all of it, I'll address only one part:
"Only having apps for the two dominant OSes may be imperfect, but it is hardly "punishing" people who own lesser, older, marginalized smartphones as this marginalization exists throughout their phone experience and app catalog. It isn't Valve ignoring them, it's most everyone ignoring them. Do you endeavor on behalf of WP, Blackberry, et al users whom are shut out of other services and features because of their choice of an inferior mobile platform?"
First of all, these platforms are not "inferior", this is only your opinion, which I may add is really stupid. These platforms are different. Like I said before, some people prefer normal phones to toys - I call, I SMS, I MMS, I check my mail. There's no reason for my to own a smartphone, especially considering an important factor which is battery life. I currently have HTC Desire Z and a HTC Desire 510, both of which I am looking to get rid of in favour of a classic phone. On a side note, Windows Phones are pretty damn good. Better than many Android phones.
Anyway. Steam made the market unusable to people who refuse to let them in on their mobile device (especially during sales, which you conveniently omitted) - if this isn't a punishment, what is it?
As for sloppyness of the app - have a simple design flaw - the new system is just annoying. You have to confirm every single listing individually, regardless of you owning the app or not. One trader I know now has to spend over 4 hours confirming listings every time he trades.
I will admit I didn't read past that. This is going nowhere - you're refusing to answer my key points, omitting them. Your faith in Valve is set in stone. Oh well, each to their own. I for one hate monopolies and value my privacy. I refuse to support the former and encourage breaching of the latter.
So much for "agree to disagree", Mr. I Must Have The Last Word.
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Aw, you're a little steamed, huh?
"These platforms aren't inferior, wah."
Calling someone stupid for saying that WP and Blackberry are inferior platforms shows the depth of your fanboy rage. Calm down. Stop being butthurt. Describing those marginal platforms as inferior is no great controversy, and turning into some weasel who has to be like, "no, they're not inferior, just different," when you have tried to set in stone your specific feelings about the incident in December, or the quality of the mobile app is, well... is perfectly in character for you based upon our interaction thus far. Somehow now that someone is expressing an opinion comparing the lesser mobile platforms negatively to the major ones, opinions aren't good enough because they're just different and by golly must be defended, how dare you, sir?
Get your head out of your ass.
And it doesn't matter if you read past there. You are terrible at reading comprehension. You are to reading comprehension as the inferior Blackberry OS is to the U.S. mobile market.
And nice burn about me needing to have the last word. Insightful. You're probably above that. I guess you'll demonstrate the maturity you possess (though it has not been in evidence given your penchant for name-calling) by not succumbing to the urge to have the last word.
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Dunno about Blackberry, but I will stand by Windows Phones. How are they worse than iOS or Android? Tell me. And don't you dare mention market share - if popularity was the way to measure quality, we'd long be screwed as a species.
Name calling? I called your opinion about "inferior platforms" stupid. You, on the other hand, insist on insulting me in every post. Get a reality check, mate.
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Whether a product is high quality isn't the end-all, be-all regarding superiority and inferiority. Ask Betamax about being considered technically superior but being clearly inferior in a few areas that actually mattered to consumers.
Let's say I have DirecTV and I want to use the app to watch TV on a mobile device. iOS phone/tablet? Check. Android phone/tablet? Check. Kindle even? Check. Windows Phone? Nopers.
I use 2FA for accounts other than my Steam account. I like Authy. Authy doesn't have a WP app. Maybe there's an app like Authy on WP. That would be nice. I didn't see one in my very brief search. But there is an app like Authy for Android. It's called Authy. I'd probably like that one best of all that apps that are like Authy.
Oh, and Steam Mobile. Let's not even go there, huh. That wound is fresh on you.
Now you might want to tout the loveliness of your awesome Lumia. And I'd probably agree that it is a slick, sexy piece of hardware. But that doesn't make up for the current lack of apps that I value for the platform. This might not be an issue for you, or the awesomeness of the hardware and Microsoft's ambitious plans may be enough to whip you into a frenzy. Great. The other 96% of the market disagrees. Sorry.
And you began with the ad hominem attacks. If your knowledge of this fact is fuzzy, refresh your memory by reading earlier posts between us. (Try Ctrl+F, "asshole".)
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So, lack of apps is your only concrete argument. This doesn't stem from a platform being inferior, this stems from the market share it has*. Which is small, true, but note that WP are much younger than iOS and Android. WP are not an irrelevant player, and it's market presence is going up again.
What else? Is there anything else, that would actually support your "inferior" claim?
*app development for another OS costs money, and few people are willing to take the cost, thinking, not wrongly, it might not be worth it. Valve isn't in this priviliged position, however, they don't get a free pass for alienating their users, after making SMA non-optional (all we want is "I forfeit Steam Support support, you lift 15-days lockdown" checkbox somewhere).
PS: I called you an asshole because it seemed like you claimed poor people don't matter because they don't generate as much Market profit for Steam. Under that impression, can you really say that calling someone an asshole isn't justified?
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I don't need to make another argument that negatively contrasts WP to Android/iOS. The argument I made is great.
Oh, but if the market share were higher, WP would have more apps because it would be worthwhile for developers to make apps for WP. Yeah, that's true, but it doesn't have that share, and thus doesn't have the apps. And the apps it doesn't have, the things I can't do with a WP is part of the problem. What is a consumer supposed to do, buy a WP even if it can't do some of the things they may most value out of their phone just because it has some nice hardware? Why not just get a nice flagship Android or iPhone?
My fall upgrade/build was Skylake. Before that I was an AMD man. I just don't like Intel as much. I don't like Intel's anti-competitive business practices, or how with both their CPU and GPU divisions AMD embraces open-source solutions while Intel and Nvidia prefer proprietary solutions. But you know what else? I wanted a good gaming PC. So I went with Skylake. Sorry AMD. You need better than my bias, or admiration, or fanboyism. You need a product that I feel is not an inferior option for my current needs. WP is at the same point with me currently. And, it seems, many users. And I've talked about phones with tech-savvy friends many times. It isn't necessarily representative--it's just anecdotes, really, but they overwhelmingly go for Android because it checks off enough pros for them and doesn't have the cons of iOS (iSheep culture, Apple's authoritarian control) or WP (where da appz at?!)
P.S. Justified? Not if you don't want to get called names back.
P.P.S. Show us a pic of your sweet ass phone. I'm serious. I have a Moto G. The Moto G is like a Honda Civic. It'll get you there, and you'll be satisfied, but you ain't gonna get strange jumping in the passenger seat like you would with a Lambo.
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My sweet ass phone? Like I said, I currently have a HTC Desire 510 and a HTC Desire Z. I also have an iPhone 4, but I only use it to take photos (my camera is broken and I didn't have the time to fix it). My contract still has 18 months to go, I'm not looking for a normal phone at the moment, because one is bound to be released during this time - I'll just grab a new model, or an older one, no point in looking right now. I'll probably end up just digging my Nokia (yes lol) E51 up.
And no, apps alone aren't enough to call a platform "inferior". This is very shallow and immature - most apps are nothing but toys, and almost all utility apps have an equivalent on WP. This is not a justification for not having an iOS or Android as opposed to WP. Apps are subjective, they are not a necessity for everyone - some people absolutely need the ones on iOS/Android, some people don't. Some people don't use apps whatsoever - the only ones I use are SoundHound and 10k Sudoku, and WP has more than enough substitutes for these two (and most other generic/standard apps). My girlfriend's twin has a Lumia - and she's satisfied with it.
So all you can come up with are apps. I'm disappointed in you.
Most adults don't choose phones based on apps available...
PS: Authy doesn't have a WP app, but they have a Windows app that can be run on WP. There are also numerous alternatives, like Duo Mobile, Token2 Mobile, etc
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Yes, apps alone are enough to call a platform inferior. The thing that really separates smartphones from feature phones are the wide variety of apps.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/03/microsoft-nokia-windows-phone_n_3861707.html
It's an old article, but the basic point is still true to a degree. An industry analyst is even quoted describing the "dearth of apps" as the reason why people don't stick with the platform.
Your nonsense about how people choose their phones is refuted directly by an article that directly links returns of Windows Phones to the absence of apps.
Now while the WP app selection is much better now than it was then, it still lags behind the two leaders, and is still perceived to lag behind them. No matter how much you want to try to engage in tortured semantics in order to argue that being inferior to one's competitors in an area which consumers absolutely do care about--even adult consumers--doesn't somehow meet the criterion for being described as 'inferior', you are wrong.
Stop being obtuse.
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Funny thing is that article was wrong - in 2013 and 2014 WP arguably had it's best times. In 2015 was a big drop, but now it's going back up. Also, three years old article. Good job. In IT, this is ancient history. Come back when you have an opinion backed by professional experience, rather than old articles on layman websites (also, fun comments, go directly against the article).
And no, apps are not enough to call a platform inferior. That's a simple fact. But you can't think of anything else, so you desperately cling to that childish idea. Also, quality over quantity.
And, FYI, there are things you could use to support that idea - but you just don't know. You simply have this stubborn direction of supporting and defending Steam in spite of reason. Hell, your whole motivation to argue my post was because it felt "anti-Steam" to you, even though you admitted it had some strong points. I am not being obtuse here (you love that word), I am simply refusing to get infected by your fanboyism.
Listen, this is not an opinion, this is a fact: Valve screwed up by releasing SMA on only two mobile OS and not providing the rest of us with a way to avoid the stupidly severe consequences. If you argue this, know that you are a mindless drone. I bet you have an "OBEY" hat.
Petersaber out. I'm not going to respond further to this stupidity. Get your personal Steamboy validation elsewhere.
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I've read the whole argument. It was good until it turned into a duel for shitting on each other.
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I disagree, mrt39. It was never good, it has been a waste of time from the beginning.
I'm sorry you suffered through our circlejerk.
♥
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Right. WP was riding high in 2013.
You are delusional.
"And no, apps are not enough to call a platform inferior. That's a simple fact."
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
"You simply have this stubborn direction of supporting and defending Steam in spite of reason. Hell, your whole motivation to argue my post was because it felt "anti-Steam" to you, even though you admitted it had some strong points."
Fact: I never said you made strong points. See, this is what it looks like when someone presents a fact. I never said that. That's a fact.
And I don't support Steam "in spite of reason". I deny your Steam bias because it is obvious and I thought it had infected your ability to be objective but I can see now that you just lack objectivity overall. I think the recent changes by Steam were excessive, but that doesn't mean that your anti-Steam stance should be my gospel.
"Listen, this is not an opinion, this is a fact: Valve screwed up by releasing SMA on only two mobile OS and not providing the rest of us with a way to avoid the stupidly severe consequences."
That is the very definition of an opinion. Whether or not Valve "screwed up" is an opinion--not a fact. That Steam Mobile is only available on iOS and Android--that's a fact.
If you're no longer going to participate in this "discussion", then that is just awesome. Clearly I cannot get your head out of your ass and you require the assistance of a professional. I would say that my last sentence there is a fact but unlike you I know the difference between facts and opinions.
Seacrest out!
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in a way maybe we need the choise to use it or not blizzard also have authenticator but doesnt punish you for not using one (plus you can get an physical authenticator not only mobile which i prefer over mobile) steam seems like taken a road that it does punish you
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grab the latest winauth beta from here. https://github.com/winauth/winauth
you're welcome.
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I second that. I use SDA, and it is rather comfortable for trading.
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Does that work the same way as the Desktop Authenticator?
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Trading has never been the main goal of any DRM, in steams case it is just and optional brilliant extra that many people around the world are abusing. The main goal is to sell games with full retail price and trading is affecting this badly in many ways.
You can still trade with steamgifts by adding trade partner to your friends list and doing gift to gift trades fast. Sadly you cant do it with Cs:Go skins, trading cards, etc and this is a big middle finger especially to those who own a windows phone - no mobile guard support for us.
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Yet one of the largest sources of income for Valve is the CS:GO/TF2/Dota trading scene, so they are partly shooting themselves in the foot now. They get quite a good chunk of money from the market, no wonder they were so happy to implement the paid mods for Bethesda, because they got a good cut fro that too.
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I don't think Valve minds trading half as much as people think.
For example Tom Clancy's The Division costs U.S. $60. Assuming 30%, Valve makes $18.
In Russia, the game costs 1999 rubles, or approximately $28-$29 dollars. At 30%, Valve makes $9.
It trades for not less than 25 keys. After taking into account the cut that Valve makes on the sale of keys, they're not losing all that much, and the indirect benefit received from the secondary market is enormous (it keeps Steam as the dominant platform)
The problem is publishers. Activision has already pulled all new games from the system, only Origin. Ubisoft could do the same with Uplay. Now that TellTale has their own version as well, what's to stop everyone and their uncle from doing likewise? TakeTwo Interactive certainly has both the money and the titles to go exclusive. Same with Sega. C1 could give it a go. Paradox Interactive and Bethesda certainly have the anchor games required.
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Well steam is the only reason I bought games. Remove that incentive for me and back to the good old days of not spending. :3
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exactly. They know where their bread is buttered, and they don't do these things lightly.
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Same. Likewise with iTunes and Music. Used to pirate, but then they made the legal way so convent that why not. (and got bonus pts when they finally forced all the studios to go DRM free)..
Steam having everything in one place, regular sales (even if not as good as the olden days, are still decent sales), un-obtrusive DRM for most titles (and I ignore the ones with 3rd party DRM anyway), it's great.
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Umm that's why region lockswere implemented, so the world can't really do anything with a russian steam gift
. I just don't get it why Steam makes it harder to sell my little cards on the market, that will eventually create profit for THEM.
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I don't know where it comes from, but, I can get The Division for 25 keys (from several different sources).
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If you're talking about csgo keys that's more than retail price. 1 key at the moment worths 2.5USD$/2.2€
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that will be the start of trading accounts - not gonna happen
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Implementing their own system means they are trying to go against a platform that has what, 85% of the market? Not to mention the need to build the infrastructure, design a DRM system that is not a basket of fuck looksatUPlay and in the case of selling not just their own products, making deals with other publishers.
Honestly, I think we'll see Origin or GOG getting to the point of being a serious competitor faster than see other publishers starting their own platform and not failing miserably. (Although I have a feeling Bethesda will try. They certainly think really highly of themselves.) Heck, even Battle.NET is existing only because WoW, mostly since SC seems to be losing massive grounds against MOBAs.
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But then they offer the game at a discount, because they don't need to pay Valve 30%. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I guarantee you that every major publisher is thinking about it. Origin seems like it's doing fine (took many attempts before they got it right). GOG is succeeding. UPlay is a f8@# up. Battlenet is hanging in there. TellTale is making their attempt. So it's not like a company is guaranteed to fail.
From a business perspective, there's less risk in using steam, but the potential reward of launching their own platform is pretty tasty. It's a risk/reward calculus, and some companies are more willing to take the risk than others. But in the end it's all about the economics.
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On paper. In reality, I never saw an Origin sale where the price was even remotely near a Steam sale one, and I'm ROW region, EU2, so it's not particularly easy to impress me with a good deal being in the second most expensive Steam region. Even GOG can be considered really expensive on newer titles where there is a GOG and Steam version, but at least they now have a compensation system and competitive prices in the retro section.
As for TellTale, they have their system for ages. Heck, for a long time, only their store sold was the digital seller of their games, they later started to release them on other platforms, including Steam. And their own store didn't really become much bigger, despite their large success since they switched to interactive films from old-school point 'n' clicks.
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Activision has already pulled all new games from the system, only Origin.
citation please
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correction: pulled some in-demand games, and doesn't put new games on Steam, only on Origin
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again: link or anything (or example)? I haven't found any news regarding that
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Battlefield 3 and 4 are not available on Steam
Crysis 2 was pulled from Steam (later made available again)
Dead Space 3 is not available on Steam
Dragon Age II was pulled from Steam
Dragon Age Inquisition is only available on Origin
FIFA and FIFA Manager games are not available on Steam
Mass Effect 2 requires activation on Origin
Mass Effect 3 is only available on Origin
Need for Speed games are no longer released on Steam
The Sims 4 is not on Steam
Titalfall is not on Steam
Generally, any big game released by EA after 2011 requires Origin, and isn't available on steam
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*cough* okay lol. You meant EA but wrote Activision ;-)
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All it means to me is I don't bother with EA games.
Except Mass Effect, but I drop that on my consoles anyway. I won't deal with Origin.
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On the other hand, if Activision would go to Origin, that would mean millions of new accounts from the little children who must have the yearly CoD to remain cool in school.
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All the small things
True care truth brings
I'll take one lift
Your ride best trip
Always I know
You'll be at my show
Watching, waiting, commiserating
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Please confirm an action on steam. Most annoying sentence of 2016.
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I don't know. I don't list many items on the market so it's not that painful for me to click that confirm button. App works well on my device.
And yeeees, they are being paranoid making users confirm every trade & listing, but that might me an aftershock from christmas fail. We'll complain about that for couple of months and it'll end up like that 2h block on card drops.
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Steam's official app for it is called "some sort of bypass" in this poll?
I just used "some sort of bypass" today. It was 2 taps or something, not even worth mentioning.
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Not everyone has an Android/iOS device. So we use the bypasses.
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I realize that, but most people do have the app on their real phones. It's just funny it's called "some sort of bypass" here, as if it was too rare to even make a separate poll option for it, or mention it in this option.
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sell 50 trading cards, and then let's see if you still think it's not worth mentioning. ^^
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Yeah yeah. Luckily unluckily :( I don't have 50 of them, and if I had, I would've sold them as soon as I found out about the new thing. :)
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even selling 5 cards annoys me to death. i'm all for security and stuff, but this is just stupid. ^^
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Following what KillingArts said, try selling 5000 trading cards like I did last week.
Even email notifications become a hassle when dealing with any sort of quanitity, and let's face it, Valve is still getting their cut.
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You don't. This is your punishment for daring to choose a phone that cannot be hijacked in 2 seconds by a kindergärtner using a wifi router.
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stop being such crybabies if you have the app, it literally takes no time to confirm something even if its cards, to whoever doesnt have a phone for it i heard theres some app for chrome that can do it so just look it up
*edit: Why isnt there a "i dont really care" option in the poll
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rofl.....yeah, when you dont use it, it is ez for you accept this change, but dont talk about "crybabies" .... this update is really fucking annoying, i have 11,032 transaction on market so far and now i must accept every fucking card to make valve happy? rofl, only idiot can bring this stupid shit idea to steam
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Well I installed Winauth beta and it does everything I need, thank you very much Nezarn and others who tried to help. Lets just hope valve won't come up with some sort of devious plot to prevent these bypasses from working.
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do i need wait week, when i switch from mobile to this? cant wait even one day without trading
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just try it and it says i already have authenticator.......so probably need remove it from mobile and then add it at this app, so 1 week without trading......not acceptable.......so fuck you Valve
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All you do is complain. Instead of being so negative maybe try and look and the things with a different point of view. If you're that unhappy with valve you can change to other platforms. The steamguard isn't that bad and 1 week without trading goes fast. Just analyze yours options mate
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lol.....adapt or shut up.....really nice....if you dont like it move on.....really good attitude....do you apply it on everyting in your life? so i dont like my neighbour, why complain, just move on
btw i already have steam guard, bcs some idiots get ez scammed.....i have about 1000 trades and 11000 transaction and never lost account
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Maybe I've phrased it wrong but I didn't meant for you to shut up. You had some emphasis on the need you had to trade above therefore I've said you had to analyze your options and adapt and your response was 3 smiley faces and a couple of words. I was just trying to help you since I also understand your point of view. I'm assuming you trade games, well, I trade csgo skins and sometimes it can be a pain in the ass but if I want to keep making money on it I've to deal with it.
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have you used the steam desktop authicator? its way less annoying than using the phone.
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Use smartphone
Use desktop app simulator
Problem solved.
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m... im wonder why, people with hundread games on steam dont have smart phone?
well, me too XD
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yeah I dont have a phone anymore so no bypassing that for me -_- steam keeps coming up with more and more dumb policies
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So no more buying bundles for cards for me I guess. Only games I want now. Thanks valve for helping me save! :D
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Imagne, that soon without reason, Valve will remove gifting because security matters! And all gifts you get by steamgifts etc, might be deleted!
Valve pls...
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Yeah, I'm actually quite mad at Valve now. I could deal with all their shit and just determine to barely use their service outside of bundles, but this confirming every, single, fucking card listing is so over the top it's fucking ridiculous. It comes across as a clear fuck you to me from Valve. There is simply no reasonable justification for it. Well, fuck 'em. I'm tired of being treated like shit. They've really lost me with this.
Here's the thing: they will keep fucking us over in new and interesting ways, so it's best to write Steam off as a viable service and invest elsewhere.
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What I don't understand is why Valve is setting the same restrictions on $0.05 trading cards, backgrounds, emotes, etc as they are on $2 keys, $100 skins and the like. It would have made much more sense to leave something as trivial as trading cards alone and allow them to be traded/sold the same as always, or even instantly. They could have simply imposed some sort of "price ceiling" where, after a certain sale price, the listing requires a confirmation.
For some reason I am picturing, as a child, trading baseball cards with friends, but being required to call and verify every sale or trade with a broker beforehand. -_-
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+1. Or at least provide an opt-out. The problem is, even people who opt out will complain when they get screwed over, which mean Valve Support gets tapped.
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I'm 100% for an "opt-out" method, but I'm not even asking for that much ... I just want a simpler method for selling or trading extremely low-cost items like cards, etc. It kind of defeats the purpose of calling them trading cards when they're imposing so many restrictions on them. Even the email confirmations for card trades were a bit over the top IMHO.
I understand why they won't ever implement an opt-out, but I don't necessarily agree with it. It's easier for them to treat everyone like idiots rather than deal with the ones who opt-out and get scammed anyway. ;_;
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"Valve: avoiding Steam customer support at any cost since 2003."
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It was that way before. I've only had to confirm market listings for items above 10€ if I remember correctly. To be honest I think this might be a little mistake on their part. Either that or they really want everyone who uses the market/trading to have the guard on
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Cant you just use the mobile authenticator thingy ?
I Dont get what the drama is about .
It literally takes ~10 sec to confirm a listing .
Also what does that even have to do with trading :?
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They bumped the non mobile auth trade hold up from 3 days to 15 days, just to make sure more people get mad at them :D
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Thats fair enough , there are ways to use the authenticator even if you dont own a mobile phone ... so i dont see a reason not to use one .
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Well , i would love to see your reaction if you got scammed m8 :)
It may be annoying and sort of a nuisance , but would you love the anarchy from a year ago ?
When ppl ware getting invited by hundreds of bots a day , when there was a i got scammed post several times a day ?
Not really ... atleast i dont want it :)
Also ppl keep bringing thousands of market listings ... its not like you sell 1k things a day .
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I (used) to buy/sell around 250 sticker a day whenever there's a big cs tournament around. the new policy is a huge pita
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well i used to clear the market of some new anime bullshit game cards , and resell them for huge profits when there wasnt the 7 day no trade / resell restriction on steam :)
It was nice days .
And 250 listings should take ~an hour to confirm ... doesnt sound like to much extra effort .
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This really grinds my gears.
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