The callout though. Implying you'd like to become a mod whilst breaking a rule in the very same thread.
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You can't call out a bear for being covered in fur.
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Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear- but fuzzy wuzzy had no hair.
Fuzzy wuzzy wasn't called out, was he?
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Perfectly fine by me, and in fact I prefer it that way. But I also don't want to hear a word from anyone whenever someone exposes a scammer in the forums. That's what you would call a double standard.
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No, a scammer's misbehavior isn't obvious to anyone with working eyes.
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I could say the same here. If you think this is somehow different then you are subjectively making it so.
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He could have posted nothing more than a link to the guy's SG profile. That can't possibly be calling out, right? And anyone following the link there to his Steam profile will know exactly what he did. This is in no way true for an alleged scammer. Someone coming and posting a bunch of screenshots (or even worse, copypasting text) that could easily be fabricated or be an impersonator or otherwise cause an innocent person to be the subject of an unjustified witchhunt is a hell of a lot different than something like this.
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Now you are splitting hairs. You know exactly what he did? What did he do exactly other than seemingly copypasta someone else's profile? And how do you know that he did anything nefarious? Are you going to tell me that the conversation above is any different from the things that can be fabricated that you mentioned?? And what is calling out if not drawing attention to someone's alleged misdeeds? The fact that their guilt is perceived by you to be a foregone conclusion is no more relevant than it is for any perceived fake giveaways on here that you guys are more than happy to do absolutely nothing about because innocent until proven guilty, right? I'm not saying that I agree with such a naive philosophy but that seems to be the standard stance on such things here. Anyway, this here is implying that they actually did something wrong, calling them out on it, and is no different than if someone else posted the same kind of 'evidence' that you claim could be fabricated. Yes, the profile is a copypasta, but you can't say more than that with the guidelines that you have set forth.
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The misbehavior I'm referring to is the act of impersonation itself, which is as plainly obvious as I stated. The calling out rule exists to prevent ugly incidents resulting from the kind of insidious mob mentality that occurs when those kind of things are allowed to happen. When you plainly impersonate a well-known figure, you remove any possibility of a reasonable doubt.
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The misbehavior I'm referring to is the act of impersonation itself, which is as plainly obvious as I stated
Yes, and that in and of itself is not an act of guilt without some kind of follow through on a scam attempt. I could copy cg's profile right now too but unless I actually do something with it then it does not matter. And with the guidelines you have laid forth, presenting evidence to that effect is in and of itself apparently an act of 'calling out'. Again, not saying I agree but that's what it is.
When you plainly impersonate a well-known figure, you remove any possibility of a reasonable doubt.
That just you putting your own subjective spin and level of 'importance' on it because it's convenient for you to do so. Because it is cg it is okay? What about someone else? That does not seem objective at all.
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Right, because people impersonate others with good intentions all the time. I said a reasonable doubt. Who's splitting hairs now?
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So basically you are allowed to make a decisive and conclusive determination about someone's guilt and summarily rule against them so to speak without respect to any 'evidence' (which by your own admission could be fabricated and therefore is not admissible)?? Again, why is it okay to expose someone in this manner when it involves cg, but not for Average Joe?
And what exactly is reasonable doubt? Different people certainly have different opinions and views on what would be considered reasonable doubt. It is definitely a subjective thing, no matter how many 'rules' anyone tries to put on it. As an example, there are numerous giveaways that happen all the time that I would consider to have reasonable doubt, but yet they are allowed to remain because someone sees it differently.
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It doesn't have to involve cg. I wouldn't consider it calling out regardless of who was being impersonated.
And when I don't know of a single case where someone was impersonated and there was nothing amiss, I consider it reasonable to think that one probably implies the other.
Yes, there is some subjectivity involved, but that argument is an easy one to make and not particularly productive. Part of our responsibility is making subjective judgement calls on matters like these.
I'm not really sure what your agenda is, but this isn't SteamRep and we're not trying to be. If you want some place to complain about scammers so badly, there are places out there for that, but this isn't one of them.
Anyway, I'll be busy for a while, so don't expect timely responses for the time being.
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Well that's the admission that I was looking for. Fair is fair after all and I would except anyone else to be afforded the same leeway. If I have raised it as a point of contention it is because they are not. This isn't actually about scammers, this is about certain double standards that occur here at times that are not right.
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The staff here has a history of issues with rule interpretation and enforcement, no doubt.
But as far as the steam profile/calling out public figures, they've been consistent in the circumstances I've personally seen, in not counting it as calling out.
Of course, the calling out rule- and it is phrased as such- exists to protect SG site members.
The individual in this case is not an active site member.
Ergo, not a valid application of the rule, any more than 'calling out a celebrity for infidelity' would be a violation of the rule.
It's not relevant to the site, ergo, not relevant to the rule.
At least, that's been the working interpretation.
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I find this funny, because back then it was specifically you who suspended me for calling out an impersonator.
No hard feelings though. :]
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It's not the impersonating that got you in trouble. It's the accusation of scamming. You didn't even post conversations like most people do. You just opened a thread and called somebody a scammer.
What if I just opened a new thread and linked to your profile and said you just tried to scam me? Take away the rule against calling out, and there's literally nothing to stop me from doing it. Sound silly? Only because I don't have a reason.
Now say maybe you have an impersonator and my IQ magically drops about 70 points and I get taken in. Now, with no rule in place to stop me, I go and post about how you just scammed me. Suddenly, your profile is flooded with hate and insults and you're on a few hundred blacklists and your profile is swimming in negative rep. And it's not even your fault.
The rules are there for everyone's benefit. Mob justice is no justice at all. The only thing people accomplish even when they're right is to tip off the people who are up to no good so they can get rid of the evidence before staff (you know, the people who can actually do something about the situation) get to see it, and then they get away with it.
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Indeed. Clearly I was suspended for calling out a scamming impersonator who is now, in fact, trade banned. Thanks for the clarification.
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The rule forbids calling out. It doesn't forbid calling out except if they actually did it. Whether or not the accusations are true is immaterial. You put it in a report and let us handle it. You don't try to rile up the torch and pitchfork crowd. All they can do is make a mess. We can throw them off the site.
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AFAIK, referencing impersonators is not calling anyone out.
That seems deeply counter-intuitive. :P
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Here's my initial comment to that :)
tl;dr, if it's something independently verifiable, non-site related, or the individual is considered a public figure, the staff has not applied any sort of protections in the past.
But as far as impersonators specifically, since that's independently verifiable on steam, that wouldn't be calling out.
Moreover, it's counter-intuitive because the calling-out rule exists as a protection, and impersonators shouldn't fall under it, namely since the protections apply to the actual account, not the impersonator's.
As such, you're not calling out an actual person, since that person doesn't exist.
You're notifying of a security breach in an existing user's account presence, which is a notification that doesn't target the user in question.
It's more akin to saying "Someone stuck a racist comment in your profile" than it is "This person is a racist".
And therein is the distinction.
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This user has also played as:
chronicdiscord
cg
kek'd
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it's funny to see the name history of "cg". he has like 5 alt-accounts on this site according to it. :3
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I asked cg if it would be calling out. He didn't reply. I figure it would be okay since who would be dumb enough to impersonate sg and link that alt account to Steamgifts? I guess we have our answer.
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Considering that this guy is perma banned on steamgifts, you're not calling out, more like stating the fact.
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the calling out rule is so subjective that i might even refrain from mentioning people that i'm talking to in the same thread -.-/
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So he did get suspended, same guy added me but was careful enough not to accept and report him :p
And I am not even popular here lel
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thank you for recounting your shameful story for the PSA. we wil be diligent. also.
HEHE chairmankao
hehe
hehe
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I'm only wondering how stupid he was considering he added a guy like you who would not fall into such pathethic thing. Smart scammers choose people that are new or that do not trade a lot so they're much easier to scam, adding a guy like me is a pure time waste. I had one scam attempt in my whole life, a guy impersonating Blue Rayla, and when I asked him a developer question regarding his steam bot, he couldn't even come up with any valid response, because he simply didn't know what I'm talking about. And I had like 3 more nice ideas how to play with him, sadly he lost interest that early :(.
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I immediately accepted the invitation,
lel for a moment
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heh, 'smart' scammers... to me, the victim has to pay attention since steam gives you the wonderful feature of past names, profile levels, games owned, friends list, steam ID (in html source if not part of url), & of course steamgifts having a link that goes to the real profile
a smart/good scammer would have the password of the real profile & login with it for some proper damage
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This guy added me a few days ago. Unfortunately for him, I have the real cg on my friend list :)
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Yeah, I got a request yesterday from an CG imposter too. I was so excited. FINALLY CG ON THE FRIENDS LIST! I found out pretty quickly though what was going on. :(
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Mmmm trading threads of permabanned members should be automatically closed
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So ... I had a conversation with this CG guy yesterday ... the impersonator ...
amusing conversation where he tried to scam me and make it seem like he was the real cg and would therefore have the powers to promote me to contributor level if i donated 10-15 games each week .. to his inventory >_>
terrible english and grammar as well.
I'd post the conversation but i do not think many people would be interested.
Edit: I put convo on pastebin here
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i like the way the impersonator spells "contribuate" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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This one makes me laugh too
cg: I have saw your profile steam, And we are very interessed from you
interessed
Oh and this one sounds very forceful...
2:53 PM - cg: Your items on inventory, Give them to me
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Such cringe, wow.
Also, I'm amazed at your level of politeness with scammers :3
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cg is a scammer, he took my Heart and only gave me 2 dollars for it
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I got one too. Here's the conversation:
Barefoot Monkey: Hello. I received your friend invitation. How can I help you?
cg: Hello ! I m contacting you because you are the winner of our official giveaways ! (x10 copies CS:GO , x10 Copies Garry Mod , x5 Copies of GTA V) Congratulation against!
Barefoot Monkey: Oh really? That's quite a nice surprise!
Barefoot Monkey: I don't remember entering that giveaway though
cg: That randoms sélection giveaways from our SteamGifts registered member :)
cg: Are you happy ?
Barefoot Monkey: Very :D I wasn't expecting this
cg: Yeah :) A bot created for the giveaways is ready for give your reward
cg: And you ?
Barefoot Monkey: Sounds great. What do I need to do?
Barefoot Monkey: Oh look - steamgifts came back online :)
cg: You have to setup your bot :3 Here his email : CSGOLounge02@outlook.com
cg: Oh ! They have accepted our IP
Barefoot Monkey: Nice. Pity that whole problem had to happen, but congrats on getting it fixed.
cg: You need help for setup your bot ?
Barefoot Monkey: Yes please. What do I do now that I have that email address?
cg: You have to modify it from Steam.
Barefoot Monkey: OK. How do I do that?
cg: You have teamviewer ?
Barefoot Monkey: I do
cg: Tell me your ID + Password.
Barefoot Monkey: Hold on... I need to start it up so I can get those...
cg: Not problems.
cg: What happens ?
Barefoot Monkey: Thanks for your time. I've finished reporting you.
In hindsight maybe I should have waited for his response before blocking him. It might have been worth seeing.
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I got suspended 2 years ago for "calling out" an impersonator. What is this double standard? lmao
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I'm surprised you didn't write to him personally. :P
Me: Oh. Well, if you want me as a Steamgifts mod, I'm still available.
cg: Hehe.
Me: Uh, cg?
cg: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
..Rofl! The burn?!!? xDD
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So I received a Steam friend invite from "cg". I excitedly thought, "Finally ... the man has come to his senses and wants me to be a member of the Support team. Now is my time to respond to the call of duty and serve my community!"
I immediately accepted the invitation, went into Steamgifts chat, and sent a PM to cg.
Me: cg, I am ready.
cg: Ready for what?
Me: You added me. I'm going to be the best Support staff you ever had. You won't regret this.
cg: I didn't add you.
Me: Wait ... this isn't you? http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198007655861/
cg: It's someone else, that's adding people trying to get free games.
Me: Oh. Well, if you want me as a Steamgifts mod, I'm still available.
cg: Hehe.
Me: Uh, cg?
cg: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Anyway, the moral of this story is, everyone, watch out for those impostor profiles. A new one has surfaced.
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