I like how 2 is called " The intelligent thing"
Not sure about what can be done about it though ...
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duplicated bundle key = let me get you another key *sends request to bundle site to revoke the old one* here you are, this one works.
duplicated expensive key = ok, bad luck, mark as not received *i was sure this key was fine* -> blacklisted and reported to support
if that person keeps doing it and everyone reports him, he will be caught and probably warned or banned.
so no, not very intelligent.
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I'm not quite sure if some bundle sites really revoke keys on demand.
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they do. Humble has done it for me many times without any problems, IndieGala provides support only for 60 days after purchase but in this time they will do the same for you. Most of official retail stores (not reseller ones) will do the same as they get eys from publishers/devs anyway so these don't lose anything - one key revoked, another given. If you buy from reseller like G2A, kinguin, HRK or some games from GMG (which is known to not get all keys from publishers but some from grey market) - ni this case it's not possible, that's why you stick to official sources while buying games for GAs :)
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I once trade away a Grid 2 from HB. I was unfortunate enough to get a possible retard who didn't know how to activate keys. (Lol) He said that the key didn't work and demanded a second copy. Didn't have one so I had to hit up the HB ninjas. They were kind enough to provide me a second copy of the entire bundle up to BTA.
However it turned out that the guy figured out how to use the key before HB got back to me and I guess I ended up scamming them out of a second bundle. The keys from the first didn't get revoked from my account or the friends I gifted spare games to.
Guess times have changed.
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At least from a retail perspective, dealing with physical merchandise, it is sometimes more cost effective to give a customer an item for free then it is to investigate possible fraud. Same with discounts on items. If you have an irate customer that eats up 2 man hours @ 10 an hour over a 10 dollar discount on something the store is already making 40 dollars profit on, its simply more cost effective to give the customer a 10 off discount. Of course, this is an oversimplified explanation.
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You still have to consider that by revoking a key you might affect a totally legitimate person that traded for the key you gave away. It depends how you look at it, really.
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Doesn't matter - if a person traded for the key or bought it from some reseller instead of legitemate source it's their risk and they should be aware that they can never be 100% sure of the outcome. Why should I be the one paying the price for some stranger deciding to take that risk in order to save a little bit?
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I'm not necessarily talking about shady resellers (G2A, Kinguin, etc.) but more like trade websites, or even the trade section on SG. I can definitely see where you're coming from, but think about the other side of it. Using the trade section is by no means anyone's fault if one of the key they traded for is unactivated. I totally agree with you, but the key you are revoking is not affecting the person that didn't redeem it, it affects a person that could be totally innocent and was just unaware of the means used to get the game.
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well - it is partially affecting the person - he will be -rep because of that. But long story short - trading is not safe. If you trade it's totally fine ofc, but after all if goods end up being stolen - you lose them. similar if a thief stole your car and some guy bought it. He was not aware, but the car will be returned to you oif police finds out. Noone can expect you to pay the cost for being the victim of a crime
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As I said, I agree. But I have to put it out there just how much I hate when people compare a game with a car/house/etc. It's not realistic, it's the same as saying killing an ant is the same as killing a human being and both should be treated as murder.
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well - cars are simply the easiest and most common to trace by police, which makes this comparison more hooked up in real life. But it doesn't matter what it is - if someone stole you anything, - car, tv, phone, book, shoes, whatever and then sold it and the good would be defined as originally stolen from you - it is taken from buyer and returned to you. Like I said - used car as example as cars are easilly identifiable as legal/stolen not like shoes ;p
Similarly I don't think that someone who stole you video game would serve the same punishment from legal standpoint as car thief, but the main fact remains intact - he stole goods from you, you have the right for your goods to be returned to you no matter if he managed to sell them to someone else or not.
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Yeah, they will, if they're reputable. Humble will definitely revoke a key for you with great ease, which is why their keys are more valuable to traders and gifters. You don't mess around with Humble.
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not warned - he is basically trying to scam another key from users. If it ends up being confirmed - scamming is permaban on 1st ocassion, no suspensions or warnings.
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it's very difficult to confirm that, it's the creator's word vs the winner. but i think 2-3 cases will be enough to see through the lies.
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that's why I told about "confirmed" - one case may be a mistake, 2 cases unlikely, more than that happening all the time - there is something in law called clircumstancial evidence :> Like in court you can sentence someone for murder even if you don't have the body if you have enough evidence that give clues that murder did happen ;)
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Yes but circumstantial is not conclusive....
And it is not a law lol....it a way to describe having some proof of guilt but not enough to prove without a doubt they did it,but it may be enough to get a conviction but not without risk and lower odds of conviction.
It akin to going to a gun fight with a half loaded gun....sure you still may come out the victor but odds are less bullets means less chances to win the fight.
And in murder it is not always easy to convict without a body as without a body it can be hard to prove the person is actually dead or if they where just injured or are missing.That is why it better to also have other evidence on top of that to tie the person to the crime along with a motive to try convince people that person did it.Though sadly this is why people still get convicted of things they did not do because a lot times they do get convicted on very little evidence.
In this case a dupe key would be hard to prove unless you could some how find out where the key was activated or what account.This was a lot easier when it used the old gift links where it showed what account redeemed the said game.
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Dupe key may be a mistake. GA creator claiming that it could not be as he just bought it on official store (not hoarded the key for month without giving it away) is strange but totally possible - GA Creator forgot. 2 trusted GA creators reporting that they were 100% sure but key was reported dupe? Raising Suspicion. 3, 4, 5 or more people all claiming the same against same person? Too many coincidences.
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Those are valid and logical options in my opinion. I just would like to point out that:
- It took Humble Bundle more than a month to revoke a key when I was in the same situation not too far ago.
- User Reports are rather useless here, in the sense that they take so much to being taken care of that it gives enough time to make some damage.
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you can wait a month, just tell the winner you need time to get a new key. if he's cheating you he will probably wait patiently.
i would use the other category to report someone like that, it can be seen by everyone in support, not just mods, and the queue is probably way shorter.
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Yes when I've created a ticket in the other category, I usually got an answer pretty quickly. Ticket for users report on the other hand, just sit there unanswered.
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I don't know about that. I figured that if I were given a bad key and the guy said he needs some time I'd say "That's fine I guess. But I'm not changing it to received until it happens.". Giving the guy who gave a bad key the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best. Which if a scammer were trying to double up on keys, wouldn't they do the same?
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of course you shouldn't mark as received, you didn't get a working key and you risk a suspension unless the game is in your library.
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Not what I meant. I'm saying as follows
If I were to scam and claim it wasn't working after giving it away: "Yeah sure, but until you do I'm not marking it as received."
If it didn't work and I needed to get a new key I'd also say : "Yeah sure, but until you do I'm not marking it as received."
...also I just reread some of the posts and realized you meant the plan was to get HB to revoke the scammed key.
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yes, that's what could happen, since there's no way to know who's right the first time that happens.
if someone is so naive to give a second copy of a $40+ game to someone knowing that key was fine, it's his fault for feeding a scammer. i'd rather take a non-received, or contact the site where i bought the key to have it revoked. unless it's a non-authorized reseller, like zelghadis mentioned
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"a win-win" situation is when BOTH parties get benefit, not one party gets twice the benefit.
Though, if someone suspect you of faking a "duplicate key, another one, please" then you will get permabanned pretty much sooner than "Mark as received" and get suspended.
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"a win-win" situation is when BOTH parties get benefit, not one party gets twice the benefit.
Thank you for the clarification. =)
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If creator bough the key from legitemate source - like official store (not reseller) official bundle etc - he will contact support and inform that the key was duplicate. For official sources in most cases he will receive a new key and the previous one will be revoked. So the game will be removed from your another account and GA creator will be sure it's legit key this time so you cannot pull this again.
If you do so more it may get noticed - 1-2 times - it may be GA creator mistake, especially if they were not 100% sure about key themselves. But if Ga creator was sure and it happens more than 2-3 times it will become pretty obvious by deduction what you are doing. It will fall into scamming category so no suspension, insta permaban for 1st offence. It doesn't mean it prevents it from ever happening but will scare off most ppl who may try it.
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That's why it is better to set lvl restriction. There is bigger chance to find scammer/ leecher in all lvl0 than in lvl4 users. I trust someone who made effort to get lvl 4 won't try do dirty tricks just to get extra key.
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Well, you never know :3 But the chance is quite slim. Most of my GAs is only 1+ and I've never had any problem with winners
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I had problem with winner once, it was public ga. Dude won second copy of the same game which he won hour earlier. Damn lvl 0 leecher. From that mom i don't make FFA GAs. Good thing, he is per baned now.
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That's why I only hold public GAs for games I don't care about :P
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That's not really fair to him, I enter multiple giveaways for games I want all the time, and often don't check after each one to see if I won, so it'd be possible to win two copies of the same game really close together so I don't see how that's his fault?
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I could agree with you but he entered my giveaway after winning first one.
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still possible and explainable - it happened to me lately - I won GA, activated it but didn't sync my profile. 3 days later I enered the same GA by mistake while being on mobile phone (so without a way to check if I own it) and won it. Simple human error - nothing to be angry about. Same as countless of my winners did before I simply wrote a comment so the dude request a reroll and 1.5h later it was done.
People make stupid mistakes, no matter what level they are. You cannot asume that all want to cheat you, give them benefit of a doubt unless you have real reason to think otherwise.
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Excatly. I nevery understand why there are so many 60 P giveaways for like fallout 4 which are lvl 0. I was I level 0 once, like everyone. But now I practically despise them
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they are usually from devs or people promoting groups/greenlight/sites. they don't care much where the game ends, it's just to get some spotlight.
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Oh well, that does make sense. Shame that they make it 0, but like you said, they are promoting the game and want as much audience as possible
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When I remember to do it, I usually record the screen when getting a key from a bundle and adding it on the giveaway page, just to be safe :p
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That doesn't prove the key is valid; it could still be a duplicate by mistake of the distributor. Argument that could be used by the winner to screw on the creator.
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but to be honest how many times it happens to receive a duplicate key from a bundle? :)
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can a key be revoked if it was activated on whichever steam account ?
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only publisher/devs can revoke the key. But if you got the key from a legitemate source - like official store or official bundle site - they get keys directly from publishers/devs ;) So you can contact store / bundle site support and they will pass it to publisher/dev and revoke the key ;) I know that's what humble did for me when some of my keys turned out being used. Used keys got revoked and I got new ones.
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Key can be revoked at anytime, on the request of official buyer, as long as both parties - customer and the company, agree on such action.
Not every company does agree though, grey market such as G2A can't revoke keys for obvious reasons.
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ok, just to understand the entire picture...
a winner of the giveaway claims to have a duplicate key (but uses it on a friends account)
i revoke the key and receive a new one...
but the key is already used and added to the library of the unfair giveaway winner...; will he be able to continue playing or will the game be removed from his list ? does steam undertake actions like that ?
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it will be removed, like valve revoking games from libraries because of credit card frauds or chargebacks.
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ive created 11 giveaways in the last 3 days, and the very first winner claimed it was already used. i presented him with another key from another game, since it would have been hard to give away games with bad rep only....
these keys to all 11 games, were bought in a bundle well over 2 years ago... by any chance would they still revoke-able ?
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i presented him with another key from another game
And I hope your winner didn't mark the game as received, because they would now risk a suspension for not having the game they won in their library.
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so because of my sense of decency (providing the giveaway winner with a working gift), but also due to my lack to provide a key for the same game i created the giveaway for, the winner of the giveaway now has risk of being suspended ?? i kinda asked him not to give bad rep, cause it would be the 1st rep i would receive at all.
what would be the most logical step for me to do, besides taking full responsibility and notifying the giveaway winner ? do i need to inform site moderators of what has transpired ?
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ticket created @ support. explained the situation as is. also sent a ticket to indiegala where i bought the bundle very long ago, asking if it can still be revoked ... hope this will be enough for now.... if not,,, please notify me with list "still to do"
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I think the best course of action is to get a copy of the game you created the giveaway for and make sure the winner redeems that on their account. If that is not a possibility, ask them to mark as Not Received and bear with the red mark. =(
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i reached out to support and this is what he/she suggested:
quote "In this situation, the best solution would be to delete the giveaway. Ask the winner if they agree with this and ask them to post a comment on the giveaway (or take a screenshot of your conversation), then submit a "Delete Giveaway" ticket."
so now im waiting for the winner to add me on steam, comment on the giveaway, or ignore me completely (the last one is ill advised for him, but i explained that by sending him a mail)
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Just make GA in a Group with good and fair people: good ratio + only positiv trade feedback :)
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And whats about a zero trade feedback like me? im that untrusted because of dont having any feedback? :P
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no you can be trusted too ;) just avoid people with a lot of -rep ;)
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thank you, im new, always greateful about "sg oldies" like you :P
Hope my ratio getting soon the same amount :D
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Actually its only my account beeing old ;) I started to use SG 10 months ago but my account is almost 3 years xD
Currently your ratio is better than mine ;)
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Still counting my ratio like 0 / 0 because im totally new to SG :D
Member for longer than 2 Months but my first GA started an week ago or some like that xP
impossible to explain that with my english skills, but its like getting a baby, its there, either when you cant believe it.
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from my expirience if you can prove at support that the key was a working one many ways to do that (for me once it happened it was one game from a bundle i given away the rest of the people activated their wins a few hours after my ga ended and one person gifted the key to his friend he didnt even bother to log into his steam account) anyway a reciept or the fact that other people activated games from the same bundle is proof enough i think so you can request a recieved status and it will be granded to you also you need proof that you sent the same key that you can do from the sent key page. A clean profile is also a positive all your other GAs never had a problem or you have activated all your wins so why change your ways now
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To spare the trouble, I usually just do high level / Whitelist / private groups / SGTools private giveaways. I haven't had to reroll as much after I follow on this pattern.
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That's what I started doing as well, long ago. Apparently some people black list for that, but then, people black list for just about any excuse imaginable.
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It's not like it doesn't make sense, not everybody has the money to get to a high level and stuff, so they wouldn't want their giveaways to go to people who won't give them a chance. I don't do it, but I don't see anything wrong with it.
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That sucks but I guess it's everyone own rights on how they use their blacklist. It's not like I don't want to contribute to the lower levels but most of the time, I find more rule breakers and "leechers" (I'm not sure when is this term appropriately applicable but I've seen people with 0 or 1 sent gifts and 80-100 wins) than the actual non-fortunate. Not to mention the non-grateful winners.
Aargh, I'll stick with the usual gifting habit, thank you very much =.='
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Wait, what?! Really?! People blacklist for not doing low level giveways? How does that even happen?
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Thanks for making me afraid of making low lvl public giveaways. ;)
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I don't need your protection, I can look out for myself
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Is that from over the top movie?i may be wrong it just made me think of the movie and Stallone
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Well, the sentence is just me, and movie is Cobra. Great action cinema. Old, dark, brutal style.
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Well i had my doubts i was right,but still the glasses and how he looked still reminded me a lot of that movie lol
I do not think i seen the movie as i do not recall watching anything called Cobra
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The first game I ever bought back in my youth was a copy of Cobra for the ZX Spectrum, The image alone brings back tons of memories. Thank you.
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Support on here actually takes longer then Steam support...
This site needs more support,it is not like people are being paid so i am not sure why they do not step up support some...as most of the time it just a waste of time and effort trying to report someone and wait for a reply.
All the while if they mark it not received,you wait months if not longer to plead your case and hope it gets changed if you are wrongfully accused.Mean while some of the community shuns you for a fake GA,or even a black list and so on.
So in the end when it comes to bundle games a lot time it easier to just hunt down another copy and make it right vs eating it if you do not want a mark on your record.
And people wonder why i am against the black list...it mostly used for the wrong reasons and stupid reason...and i have seen people accused of giving a free game and being black listed because the GA was created the same day or close to the same time it went free.i have also seen people accused of re-gifting because they gave away a game they won,without checking and so on.
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I guess it depends on case, because sometimes they reply within hours.
However, I wonder how many tickets they have. I once reported one user for very toxic behaviour, multiple times. None of these tickets were checked by support and I'm not gonna close them myself.
EDIT:
Also "it easier to just hunt down another copy and make it right vs eating". No. You can't. What if next key will also be 'duplicated'? If you will let them exploit you, they will exploit you more.
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Well whenever i needed support it took months to get a reply,i am sure for re-roll and such it might be a lot faster but to check if someone has been punished for non activated wins,that took months just to be told they had ,so i just ended up giving the gift to the person so i did not get a mark for not giving the game while i waited for support,this was before SG tools had the check system they do now.
I meant it easier to hunt down another copy if you do not want a mark,as if the person is out to screw you,if you ignore them they will still mark it not received.Also if they are trying to scam you,there not going to ask 3 times for a key,they are going to most likely use the next key on there account to not get a mark.I am aware some may still not but most are not going to go to that much trouble.
This system works on the honor system so no matter what safe guards you put it someone is going to abuse it,all i am saying is it a lot easier to scam people then it is getting supports help.IMO that is not a good thing.
As you could easily save a bundle key for a game that you want to win,when you do activate your key for said game,then trade said won key or better yet activate that key and sell your key and bam you done cheated the system.
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well, there's one more issue to consider.
If the scammer activates the key, then the game will show up in his/her library.
If the scammer doesn't activate the key, the scammer runs the risk of the GA creator giving the key to someone else
And if the GA is in the form of a gift link or a steam gift, then there will be a clear record of the gift
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Bullshit, no scammer is stupid enough to activate key on his own account, if I was about to scam anybody, I'd activate it on totally different account, and I'd make sure it's not connected with my main in any way (friends/groups)
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This is one of the main reasons most my Ga's are now Group,Whitelist or level6+ just to much shady stuff going on in the low level public Ga's
ive had this pulled on me a few times, the last time i just said ohh sorry and asked for the Ga to be deleted, the key was brand new from humble so the odds of it being used were very unlikely and i wasn't about to give the guy another key.
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I have the feeling it's going to happen again.
Last weekend I sent the key to one of my winners; it's there on the site itself.
Winner is online daily, but hasn't activated the game on his Steam account, has yet to mark it as Received and is not responding my messages.
I foresee another unjustified red mark on my profile, for reasons unknown.
Let me show a little prejudice here and tell that the fact their Steam profile says they are from Russia but they speak Portuguese was a good indication of problems. Maybe it's just I'm too dented by experience.
Anyway, given the situation at hand I once again wonder, how do we avoid this without sacrificing the community side of things?
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Clearly level 2+ isn't enough, raise that limit to at least 3+, or just switch to making forum giveaways, preferably with SGTools.
The community side of things? If you switch to forum giveaways, you'll be dealing with the best part of the community.
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Well, I wanted to believe, so I made a few publics recently. It's simply... not satisfying, dealing with low-level users.
They use bots and scripts to automate entries, ignore descriptions, post random (and useless) copypasted thanks when they enter, but not when they win, they're fast to activate keys, but not to mark them received...
Also, they usually have awful ratios, and by awful, I mean something like 200 Won / 0 Sent with 1000 games in account (so not even justifyable).
Of course, there're surely many nice users among the lower levels, but they'll level up sooner or later anyway.
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I have had someone do this to me after regifting the key.
I sent proof of the key purchase to support and they gave me my received feedback. Then he unmarked it again, and I linked them to the previous ticket. Then he unmarked it again, and they suspended his ass. He hasn't done it again since.
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Let's suppose I've won a giveaway. As I'm ill-intended, I had no plans to redeem the key on my own account as the site rules demand.
Instead, I did my business, and the key is now activated on someone else's account.
So, I'm faced with two options:
The question is: What guarantees are there for the people that keep this site rolling, at expenses of their own money?
This is just a debating topic about something that's been worrying me a lot lately. I hope no one gets mad by the way it's presented here.
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