What do I expect every time when I hear muslims shouting
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That`s some serious driving skills around the two minute mark.
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The video you shared tells me about you that how far far away you from Islam. It means you don't know about Islam, only you know is just what media tells. I think you even don't know what Islam word mean. Islam means "peace", and Islam has no connection with terrorism. In Islam, to kill an innocent person is like to kill all humanty. So who kills person just for nothing (like terrorists do) is can not be a Muslim. So, how can you share this video to us? If you don't know about something (and Islam is not "something", Islam is a religion like Christianity and Islam has a holly book like Bible) how can you say something about it? Please, don't.
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In fact, it actually means submission (to God).
Muhammed being a warlord, in fact, wasnt peaceful per say. Wahhabism is not very peaceful either since it is in fact connected to terrorism. Islam is not a religion in the conventional way since it has its own laws in fact, like Shariah which is if we are being honest, not 100 percent compatible with the Western Culture of free love and expression.
It all depends on the interpretation of the Quran I suppose.
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Sorry, my aim is not to extend the subject, but to clarify some points. First of all, Shari'ah is the whole order that Allah (or we can say God) deems appropriate for His servants. This order cannot be called just a law. What God wants from us is that we live in accordance with his order. In order to understand and practice this way of life, we must obey the holy book he sent and the prophet he sent. The way of life of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is sunnah and sunnah cannot be considered separate from the Quran. Sunnah and the Quran complement each other. If you look at the life of Muhammad (pbuh) you will see that he is always on righteousness. This means that as Muslims we have to follow him and be on righteousness. Everything that is far from this understanding, that is, from the Sunnah and the Qur'an, is also far from Islam. So, secondly, I have to say that Wahhabism has nothing to do with Islam, because Wahhabism is far from sunnah. People assume that everything alleged or described in relation to Islam is Islam itself, but the truth is not so.
If you search enough, you will see that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is on righteousness like the Prophet Noah (pbuh), the Prophet Moses (pbuh), the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and other prophets.
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I have acquired some understanding of Islam through my travels, having been fortunate enough to study under some of the biggest Islamic scholars of our time. You do not know of my "credentials," but in the interest of perpetuating the truth, I wish to share a few things with you.
1) There is no such thing as "Wahabbism." The term was invented by those who had a political axe to grind, and it was done with the intention of misleading and dividing the Muslims.
2) One of the principles of Shari'ah is that there are prerequisites (Ar. sharoot) for its implementation. Non-Muslims cannot be expected to know and understand this, but there are a surprising number of Muslims who also do not know and understand this, even though they should. Calling for the implementation of Shari'ah when those sharoot are not in place is misguided.
3) It should always be kept in mind that there are going to be people who claim to adhere to a particular belief without actually following it. You touched on this in your response, but it bears repeating. Many of the things about which people complain in connection to Islam and Muslims are actually forbidden in Islam. While it is nonsensical to judge a religion based on the actions of one person claiming to adhere to it, it makes even less sense to do so when the vast majority of a religion's followers act the opposite. This does, however, point out the fact that every Muslim is seen as "representing" Islam, whether that is actually the case. Practicing Muslims should therefore strive to be good role models.
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Saying wahhabism doesn`t exist, regardless of motives, is cool with me, no sweat off my back or how would you say this, but you can try telling that to the +1 million people who actually do follow this movement that follows the Quran literally (probably much closer to 10 million).
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No idea what the prerequisites are for Sharia law, nor what ar sharoot is. Sharia and Islam are however intertwined indeed. It is a confusing aspect as there are for example 130 Sharia courts in the UK but here in Indonesia, having the largest Muslim population, we only have Aceh which has Sharia law.
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Can you help me understand this point? Let
s say I am complaining as an outsider towards Islams intolerant viewpoint on homo sexuality, which they consider to be a sin. Are you saying that I am wrong to think of this as a bigoted aspect of Islam and that devout muslims are in fact pro same sex? Mind you, here in Indonesia they even banned same sex emoticons and what not.
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Now I'm really curious. I mean, the point about homosexuality of Islam. Or is this kind of bigotry fine - unlike anti-religious points of view formed exactly because of homophobia (and I'm not even talking about misogyny)?
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It was not my intention to turn this thread into a discussion of Islam, so I will limit my response.
1) What you describe does not actually exist, and I am in a position to know. Contact me if you wish more information.
3) Being homosexual is not a sin. Sexual activity between people of the same sex is a sin. Going public with that activity is grounds for punishment. That punishment is prescribed, so there is no leeway in it. However, there are conditions for implementing Shari'ah.
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So you can be homosexual but you can't act like homosexual anywhere? So if someone see you have homosexual sex what is the "prescribed punishment" for this?
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(setting aside the fact that non-homosexuals are capable of performing homosexual acts...)
If you are within the Islamic State (which does not currently exist), and there are four (or more) witnesses willing to attest in court that they saw the defendant commit such an act, then the matter may be taken to an Islamic Court. If the defendant is then judged to have committed such an act, the prescribed punishment is death.
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WOW! Well thank you for that information. It makes islam look really really bad.
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Also, the punishment for bearing false witness is commensurate with the punishment of the crime accused, so better make sure all four witnesses are solid before taking the matter to Court.
And you are welcome.
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3) Imagine a new law declaring any islam-related activity like prayers illegal. Would it make it any better to say that believing in Islam itself was still allowed, just acting on it in any way gets you imprisoned?
Being gay is not a choice. By declaring homosexual activity a sin you deny them the right to follow their natural state. But of course that's rather new scientific knowledge and god didn't know about it when he wrote the quran and the bible. ;)
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Yeah, that's the point exactly. A person belonging to a religion that prescribes death for consensual sex between two adults blames people who strongly dislike Islam for "bigotry" . Man, the extent of your hypocrisy is insane.
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A person ... blames people who strongly dislike Islam for "bigotry" .
You have it wrong. I believe in Free Will, that how an individual feels about anything (religion or otherwise) is his or her choice. It is only when said individual does something that impacts others that it becomes public domain, and other people have the right to react. On a personal level, I am not bothered by a person's dislike of Islam, nor by his or her bigotry (if applicable). That is his or her choice. However, being a Moderator on this site means I have to respond when someone pees in the pool since to do otherwise would be seen as condoning the behavior done in front of me. On the flip side, no matter how much I might dislike some of the anti-social behavior on this site, if I determine it is "within the rules," I have to keep my mouth shut. My personal feelings are irrelevant.
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Thanks for the reply and teaching me your positive views. May you spread your positivity unto your surroundings even further.
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I know I’m. A week late, but you complain that Islam is not a religion because it also has its own laws.
Does that mean that Judaism and Mormon and Catholicism (among many others) aren’t religions? Those also have their own laws. The Talmud covers not just religious doctrines but also health code, laws regarding business dealings, and a whole lot more. Catholics have ecclesiastical courts. The Doctrines & Covenants of LDS are also quite extensive
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Thanks for the reply, I didn't really complain, you can interpret whatever i say however you like, that is up to you, just wanted to say, not complaining :)
Also, didn't say Islam is not a religion, just not a conventional one which you actually prove for me. Maybe you are in a hurry and didn't really read what i said but I think we probably actually agree mostly. Although, we can argue semantics and explain the difference between guidelines and actual law and even go back in time to see how religions evolved and how their power, regarding laws, have become very limited, unlike with Islam where you prove my point indeed that it is not a conventional religion, but a whole system, with is own laws like here in Aceh, not just religious law/guidelines.
Have a good day my dude.
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I'm agree with you since I'm a common man who doesn't dive into the details of different religions, believes Islam can be peaceful, and just awaits from all christians, hindus, buddhists, muslims and other representatives of world religions to refuse to detonate bombs and to organize massacres with knives in all countries
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The problem ofc is that the media is around to confuse people who are easily confused and fear sells so it's in the media's best interest to propagate fear of others and they do so gleefully.
Terrorists are psychopaths. Whatever excuse they give themselves for being terrorists is irrelevant. And yet the media keeps hammering away at their "religion" as if that was in any way related to what they're doing. Because it sells.
Muslims and Islam are as responsible for terrorism as the Pope is responsible for serial killers and the KKK, which is not at all.
Unfortunately once that link has been made and repeated ad nauseum every time a crazy person detonates a bomb somewhere, it's hard for people to get it out of their heads.
And sadly it's been a leit motiv since the 80ies at a time when the media has gone from the news to 24/7 fear-mongering.
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True, but terrorism is not the only problem with religion (in fact it's a pretty small one in comparison). If you look at this rather famous poll, some of the stuff there is pretty disturbing. People have the right to believe what they want. But if they say their views should apply to everyone - with in some cases very serious consequences - then that's clearly a problem.
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While I am in agreement with your main point (Freedom of Thought), your interpretation of the poll seems to be a bit "off." That is hardly surprising, however, seeing as the information presented is incomplete and somewhat misleading.
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Yeah I wish there were more info on the way the survey was conducted. It's useful to see questions in these surveys
There's also a matter of degree in serious opinion polls that seems to be missing.
For example, if you ask Christians who attend church every Sunday in the US, if they believe the Bible comes from God, you probably also will get the same answer as you get here. If you ask them if the 10 Commandments are more important than the Bill of Rights, you'll probably also get similar answers.
If you ask them, however, if they believe that the US would be a better place if the 10 Commandments were the law of the land, you'd get a lot of yes but that doesn't mean they would support the 10 commandments becoming law if it was an actual thing, If you asked them how much they would support it, the results would vary.
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Yeah I wish there were more info on the way the survey was conducted. It's useful to see questions in these surveys
There's also a matter of degree in serious opinion polls that seems to be missing.
+1
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People have the right to believe what they want. But if they say their views should apply to everyone - with in some cases very serious consequences - then that's clearly a problem.
I agree with you. Most people in the survey did say that it shouldn't apply to non Muslims though. And, as I was telling Khalaq, I wish the survey had degrees because these kind of opinions tend to come with various degrees of conviction.
Also, if you ask similar questions to church-goers you'll pretty much get the same results, so Islam is not to be feared any more than Christianity is.
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Good if you can remove this. I'm sure this is all in good fun, but it is slightly inappropriate when people are just making small celebratory comments. (And that beat was horrible.)
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So, you hijacked this thread to post something bigoted and offensive to the rest of us?
Do you even see how you are behaving in the exact way you (claim to) abhor?
I very much doubt you were unaware of the nature of your post when you created it, but on the off chance your brain was malfunctioning, I will simply request that you correct your mistake. Remove the link.
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...and substituted another offensive video in its place. I do not know why you choose to be confrontational in what is supposed to be a "season's greetings" thread for Muslims, but I did give you a chance to "take it somewhere else." Take a time out, and when you come back, remove the link.
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Well, I guess the suspension was well deserved.
Thanks for trying to have this thread under control. I wonder every time, why people come around (so quick) to just offend others.
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It does make you wonder. There were many ways he could have gotten his message across while avoiding suspension, and only one way to get suspended, yet he chose the one way. Then, when he was given a chance to dodge the bullet, he chose to step in front of it, instead. Go figure.
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There was. I totally agree. We definitively should act on it as a community. Hate (even camouflaged as a "joke") should be given no room. Thanks for being on watch in this case :)
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Just remember that just because something might offend you, it doesn't mean it should be censored. Hate and being offended are different things. This thread wasn't really the place for the video he posted but it doesn't mean the video shouldn't be allowed to be shown somewhere else.
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Excatly the other way around: Things that offend people should be judged by people, who are offended by it, not people who use it as a "joke" or whatever. That would be what the modern debate calls "white supremacy".
I wasn't talking about censoring or even forbit anything. If someone wants to watch anti-muslimic, racist or whatever kind of videos at home, I guess I can't help him/her/*. I was just talking about that we as SG-community should stay together, when it comes to be respectful to every member of this community. That video in this thread was disrespectful.
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When things that offend people got judged by people who are offended by it:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/17/teacher-decapitated-in-paris-named-as-samuel-paty-47
That teacher was too disrespectful to the murderer and his accomplices by showing them caricatures. Or maybe he was a "white supremasist" and those democratic guys taught him a lesson?
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Come on. That has nothing to do with this thread. I don't take any position to murder someone over that kind of matter. Just stay in the discussion. We could start posting articles about "white cops shooting unarmed black people" or "Charlie Hebdo" or whatever position one want to point out. Does that lead to anything, but even more generalising?
People were offended by your post, you were ask to delete it. That would've been even easier to do, then creating the post (two clicks I guess). Just try to empathise. If you can't, have it your way. Being offended by not getting the chance to offend others is a point of view I can't understand. You may think about it or you don't...
But let me tell you, that there are a lot of places on the web, where you can post that video without people being offended, if that is what you're looking for.
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You can judge things all you want. That doesn't mean you get the right to censor it because you are offended. It is not white supremacy. This gets thrown around way too freely these days. I did say this thread wasn't the right place for the video but that doesn't mean it can be shown anywhere on SG.
You saying everyone should be respectful of members of this community is true but when a portion of people ban together to silence someone because something might offend the few then that is not being respectful of members of the community. Just the ones you deem worthy.
Excatly the other way around: Things that offend people should be judged by people, who are offended by it, not people who use it as a "joke" or whatever.
This is not being respectful of others. This is you picking who is worthy to judge the offensive item. So if say 10 people find it offensive but 15 don't, does that mean it is not offensive then? Who gets to decide that whatever you do one day is offensive? Then does someone get to say what you do is "white supremacy"? Or does it not work that way?
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You still don't get the point: I said, that what is offensive should be judged by the people, who are offended by it. Actually it doesn't even matter, how many they are. Actually the problem lies with "minorities" most of the time and I think they have a right to be protected. Human dignity is the point where so called "freedom of speech" has in fact boundaries.
But I guess we will not meet in our opinions, but that is ok (and should be ok). A discussion should always be possible, even if people disagree.
In fact, I did not suspend or ask for a suspension. That was decided by a mod of this community. I just stated my agreement, with the background, that the user could've deleted the video, when he/she/* was asked to do so. The video still would've been posted and the whole "who judges who"-discussion wouldn't have been taking place.
I do also think, that SG is not made for offensive content nor a political discussion (my opinion/position included).
I get the feeling, that you are offended by people being offended. I don't get it.
But maybe we just agree to disagree and leave it at this point. I will think about, what you've written and maybe I'll get something out of it.
Just to let you know, because you might have entered the discussion later. I deledet my first response, because the video was changed. It had the question whether or whether not the video was offensive, which is quiet different from stating that it is. What you can tell from the other responses is: It offended quiet a lot of people.
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Like I said you can judge things all you want. What I am saying is just because you think something might be offensive doesn't mean others can't post it somewhere. I also did say this thread was not the place for the other user's linked video as that's not what this thread is about. I'm also never said you suspended the person or asked for it.
My reply to you was about how you said things shouldn't be given room if you consider it as hate, even jokes. This is censorship and it shouldn't be like that. If a person was attacking someone over race, religion, etc. inciting harm then yes it should be removed or taken care of. But we can't just block everything we find offensive. Human dignity is all based on people being decent and you'll never get everyone to be like that. Sometimes people want to troll or be assholes but they can be like that all they want.
SG not made for offensive content is definitely not true considering you can give away adult-themed games. Some people find that offensive but it's allowed because you can just ignore it.
I'm not offended over anything in here. I just felt that what you said wasn't right about as a community we should start rallying together and blocking things certain people find offensive. I feel that can just become a bigger problem than we would want to deal with.
I have no ill will with you and to let you know I talked with Borsch and got them to remove the video. I agree this wasn't the thread for that as it was meant for a peaceful discussion. I have no loyalties with anyone on this site so I don't choose sides. If you asked me to look into something because you thought it didn't belong, I would do that. I can't guarantee it'll be in your favor as it all just depends on the context.
In the long run, I do believe we should all be better people and show more kindness but we will have to deal with things we don't always like, and that's just how life is. We can always agree to disagree and that's fine. We had a discussion and we may not see eye to eye on it all but it didn't become uncivil and that's a good thing.
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Wow. Can't say you didn't warn him.
I wish the people trolling the LGBT thread next month would get a time out that fast.
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I happened to be here in this thread, but your main point is solid. LGBT thread. Merry Christmas thread. Spaghetti Monster thread. And so on. The threads themselves are usually fine, but it seems there's always someone who wants to pick a fight.
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I really wasn't blaming you for acting quick, quite the opposite.
And yeah there's always a troll trying to rain on someone's parade for some reason. Like threads are mandatory and you can't just stay out of those that are not meant for you or be civilized if you do wander in.
Oh well. By any modern internet standard, I think we're still doing fine at SG ;) and thanks for being on watch.
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Please do not take the conversation in that direction.
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lol, i often watch these videos back then, it's hilarious
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It can be, yes, but the time, place, and manner in which he chose to post that was poorly selected. It doesn't take much thought to come up with alternate ways for him to make his point without getting himself into trouble, but there you have it.
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Here is a Sionist who honored me by blacklisting me for being a Muslim. His kinsmen are also busy bombing children in Gaza. Thank you and your 10 friends who honored me by blacklisting me. You give me a double holiday.
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HALT! This donkey-lover called me a jew!!!!11 Call the police lol
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I am human-lover and I am also an animal rights advocate. Thanks for complimenting me.
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animal rights advocate
I have already understood it earlier, there's no point to continue your presentation. But you may want to reciprocate by calling me 'muslim child eater'.
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A child is a child. It doesn't matter what your religion is. And if we are human, we should not react to the killing of innocent people. I did not tell you the child eater, but unfortunately there are those who kill, if not eat. I hope you are not one of them.
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I have never got this scrupulousness about not eating what had alredy been killed...... but at least i don't bring my agenda to this innocent site whrer ppl try to relax a bit.
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Please do not pick a fight in our forum. This post was unnecessary and inflammatory. I suggest you drop the "argument" before it becomes more heated.
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Count me in, I don't mind innocent women and child murderers blacklisting me too.
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just to make clear: i didnt Blacklist you for your Religion but for this aggressiv Post ;)
but still: eid mubarek!
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Ok you are a little different from the others. But the person I wrote here blacklisted me because of my religion. I can say 2 words while I catch him in the drop. I'm sorry for the attacks on Palestine, which is already today, and someone of the man comes to a person who wishes well, Shalom! says. This is to officially make fun of him. Anyway, thanks, it's not important, but I don't think my post is offensive. Anyway, I don't want to discuss this further.
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While I understand your anger, calling someone by ideology/race/nationality/sexuality in a negative manner is not ok. And I'm saying this a someone who has you whitelisted, despite this comment.
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Yes, you're right, despite all the injustices, I should have spoken more carefully. I don't care if they blacklisted, I even said it was a source of pride for me. It is also a source of pride for you to whitelist. What annoys me is that people who are not sensitive give bad replies to people who write a message of support for Palestine.
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Isn't that a "political agenda", like you don't want this thread to be used for?
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The original response was a prayer for people in an area of conflict, regardless of race, gender, religion, or politics. However, things seem to have devolved since then, and now I have to step in.
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Yeah, I guess things get out of hand quickly, if there are people stuck in their way of interpreting the world.
My post wasn't so much related to what you said, more to the one you answered. I mean this post was meant for Muslims celebrating a special day of the year, not to discuss anything about Isreal-Palistine. As you see with the reaction to the "Shalom"-Post it gets heated fast.
Seems there is still work to do.
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Eid Mubarak! Happy holidays everyone and stay safe!
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I first heard of Eid on SG many years ago (but only heard it pronounced for the first time the other day on the radio). Hope it's cool for a non religious person to also wish you all a happy Eid!
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It's always good buddy. Cheers, Eid Mubarak to all my brothers!
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عيد فطر سعيد
I wanna take this opportunity to share a comedic bit from one of my favorite deadpan stand-up comedians!
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Yeah, I'm going to say to you what I said to BorschtLover, above. Hijacking this thread for your own political agenda is not cool. Please fix your post.
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Well it's more that I felt the thread was too vapid and needed some topical references, and less of a political agenda.
But you can view it as you wish, I don't see anything there to be fixed however.
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Apparently, I was not direct enough. Take some time to think about your mistake, and then remove the link when you come back.
To everyone else: If a Mod points out that you are in violation of the Guidelines and asks you to correct your mistake, please do it. If you wish to argue the point, it is better to do so after you have complied.
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So posting videos that a mod doesn't like is a guideline violation now? LOL, sure
Edit: there's literally nothing in the guidelines that prevents people from posting links in their comments. Way to act hurt and suspend someone because you didn't get your way 😂🙄
Not saying I agree with the video content but they literally didn't violate any guidelines lol
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If someone posts a "Merry Christmas" thread, and someone else goes in and posts: "This is boring. How about a video of Donald Trump wishing everyone a Merry Christmas (if they are not from one of the Eastern oriental churches, since Donald doesn't like those places).", then that may not be intended as straight out harassment, but to me that seems to be rather trolling one way or another than anything else.
I mean, if someone wants to talk about the MidEast, and about particularities such as the Sheik Jarrah issues, or about how people are starving in Gaza while Hamas seems to have plenty of money for rockets, or about how Mr Netanyahu seems hypocritical to some, and so on, SG may not be the best place for such a discussion, but I don't think that such a thread would be forbidden. But similarly to how it would be quite derailing to turn a "Merry Christmas" thread into a discussion about whether Trump or Liz Cheney is better, so it is here. (And yes, this comment also isn't on-topic, which is why I won't reply to eventual reply in this thread.)
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Oh, I'm not saying it was a good move from OP to post what they posted but for a mod to just go "this hurt my feelings, I'm just going to abuse my power and suspend them" really ain't it.
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Actually, it is more like a Ukrainian thread, where people are wishing each other "Merry Christmas" (despite being invaded by Russia), and then someone posts a Vladimir Putin video where he is saying, "I want to wish all of our fellow Ukrainians a Merry Christmas." As you say, a discussion might be just fine, but the time and place are way off.
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So posting videos that a mod doesn't like is a guideline violation now?
No. Hijacking a thread with a post designed to offend the people posting in that thread is a Guideline violation. Specifically, it may be considered harassment.
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Well, then I hope you're this thorough with any and all cases of harassment on this site, not just the ones that are targeted towards issues dear to your heart.
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I respond similarly when I come across this type of thing in any thread. Regardless of how I may personally feel, I am expected to respond to misbehavior because I am part of Support Staff. I obviously can't read every post in every thread, but if I come across a potential problem, or someone else calls my attention to it, I check it out.
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Hijacking? They posted one insensitive comment and YOU chose to sink to their level and engage. It would have barely been noticed until you decided to “make an example” of someone posting in “your” thread.
I see you just did the same to another callous commenter as well. When people complain about favoritism and hypocrisy in the mod team, this is the kind of shit they’re talking about. It’s so coincidental how only certain threads are given this type of “attention” from moderators.
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If you feel there is a potential issue, and no one in Support has yet intervened, please contact us. We are required to investigate all complaints.
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lol, thanks for that i really needed a laugh after the day i had.
You know that doesn't mean shit when mods are the ones investigating thier own complaints, especially since most of that investigation is just ignoring the users they don't like and closing their tickets with no comment or with a super bitchy aggressive one that would get the person making it suspended.
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As a general rule, we Mods do not handle complaints that involve our ownselves. We let the other Mods handle those.
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that didn't really address my points but okay.
I've made it pretty obvious i don't respect this site or the mods (besides Jatan) but i do respect the bullshit you have to go through. Y'all get a lot of unjustified hate thrown your way, and I know it does take a toll on you. the problem is, not all of it is unjustified.
Y'all are extremely biased. Bias isn't Nesscarily a bad thing, there should be a community that you're focused on creating, but it is an issue when your bias makes you moderate certain users differently. users Y'all dislike will get suspended constantly for "aggressive" or inciting posts and comments that other users can post similar ones of and while the newer mods and the people you like have free reign to be as aggressive as all hell. And it creates a really toxic environment.
mods allow people to tell others there going to hell for being trans in support threads and will allow posts that question if gay people deserve human rights, but you quickly suspend people who criticize islam in your threads. You have to understand why it doesn't feel like a "it's against the rules to incite drama in threads not about it" and more of a "don't criticize my religion or I'll ban you" kinda thing.
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Pride month is coming. There will be lot of trolls and haters as well. Will you be fighting for their rights and freedom of speech same way?
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i mean, I'm not against that type of inflammatory speech being banned 'cause it causes drama, I'm more annoyed at the hypocrisy of what and who is or isn't punished.
like personally if i was a mod i wouldn't allow it either, but again it doesn't seem like a suspension because "it's against the rules to incite drama in threads not about it" it feels more like a "don't criticize my religion or I'll ban you" kinda thing.
If they wanted to craft a community where these types of controversial things weren't discussed i'd disagree but wouldn't mind, but it feels very hypocritical compared to the stuff they've left up and okayed, and it's really annoying to only have controversial things the mods are personally invested in punished while allowing free reign to attack and disparage the identities of others they don't personally relate to.
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- Topic is not about discussing lslam, it's about a holiday celebration. But yeah, ofc some people just can't ignore something they hate.
- 1st person got suspended for obvious trolling/harassment. Second one - for political bullshit, which could have been ignored Imo.
- *Community Guidelines: "4. Personal attacks or hate speech. Threats, harassment, and slurs (e.g. insults towards a user's race, sexual orientation, or gender) are not allowed."
Did I miss someone getting suspended for discussing things?
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It's a religious holiday, it is inherently regarding islam. But it isn't really about the religion as a whole, just a festival they celebrate. The people who got banned left comments that were probably inappropriate and i don't really mind them getting banned for it, but i mind how the guidelines are applied unequally. Also criticizing a religion isn't a a personal attack, threat, or slur.
if the precedent was that bringing controversial inflammatory comments into a thread not explicitly discussing it i wouldn't mind, but I've had mods ignore people calling me a man, predator, and telling me I would go to hell for my identity, and letting go people telling me to kill myself, including one who they did later make mod.
If all that stuff actually got people suspended i wouldn't mind, but mods only suspend when its something they are personally involved with or when someone they dislike does something technically against the rules that they let others do all the time and / or do themselves.
the issue is that kalaq only seems to ban people when they critize his religion, but other just as inflammatory things are introduced to topics about stuff mods don't care about all the time and that's seemingly fine.
And my issue specifically with the mods is that a mods can tell me to kill myself and not be punished but i call him a cunt because of it and suddenly personal attacks are punishible. And saying fuck Amerikkka is inflammatory while questioning if gay people even deserve rights is fine.
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Also criticizing a religion isn't a a personal attack, threat, or slur.
Those specific things may or may not be included within the criticism, but criticism itself does not necessitate them. There are examples of criticism which are not personal attacks, threats, or slurs in this very thread, albeit mostly digressions from the main topic.
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I have opened one about that over a month and a half ago, but hey, nobody reads those. Neither does anyone read the harassment one that I summited a week after that, that I had to edit 4 more times in the mean time because nobody has bothered to look at it.
Actually I was curious and checked: out of 661 tickets (tbf some are auto deletions but still leaves over 600 of them) I have made not a single one was solved by you so it sure comes as a bit rich to tell people to contact support. Especially since there have been complains about the horrible slow support times for years. And I get it, we are all people but I have seen rerolls taking over 7 days and user reports year+ which is frankly ridiculous and something should be done about it.
I hope I don't get banned for "hijacking" thread as well, but good god it is frustrating to see a mod going on a rampage in their own thread but when you ask for help all you get is cricket noises back.
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And I get it, we are all people but I have seen rerolls taking over 7 days and user reports year+ which is frankly ridiculous and something should be done about it.
Agreed. I am basically retired from SG, but I myself have contacted CG about the lack of staff on multiple occasions, and I know I am not the only Support member to do so. Ever since I discovered SG, it has always been a struggle to both recruit and retain Support Staff.
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i'd love to do it but sadly i am not well known enough to get selected
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i'd love to do it ...
No, actually, you would not. But if you are serious about taking on such a burden, I will put your name in the pool.
[Edit: Oh, you have only been with us for a very short time. That is going to remove you from candidacy. Nevermind.]
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ok - whatever i like to help out others which from my limited dealing with you seems to not be what people think you do - i couldn't say as i have not had to submit anything to support, but then again you can't please everyone
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I feel you. I also joined Support because I wanted to be helpful. However, Support Members are quite restricted in what they are allowed to do or say. It often feels a lot like being in the stocks for a crime you never committed, with some people throwing rotten vegetables at you and you having to just "take it" because you are prevented from defending yourself. That is your daily reward for tackling a never-ending workload which will eat up as much of your life as you let it. Few people can tolerate that, and those that can do so will only last for so long before "burning out."
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Few people can tolerate that, and those that can do so will only last for so long before "burning out."
Case in point.
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It often feels a lot like being in the stocks for a crime you never committed, with some people throwing rotten vegetables at you and you having to just "take it" because you are prevented from defending yourself. That is your daily reward for tackling a never-ending workload which will eat up as much of your life as you let it
Pretty much. Out of dozens of mods on SG in these 10 years, I know at least 6 that quit due to how horrible they were treated by the community. Just to point out some more "fun" examples from the bunch:
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One of the first mods on SG had a death threat not against him, but against his newborn child (he became a parent two weeks earlier)
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Another one was added and got told their address and was given a picture of their house from Google Street View - followed by death threat, of course.
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Another banned user figured out the Facebook and Reddit accounts of one former mod and continued their harassment there.
I would like to say that things got better with time but looking at one support ticket that was created only 4 hours ago, where one user is mentioning himself and my mother in some pretty intimate positions - I'm not so sure anymore (and that's pretty much the sole reason why they created a ticket)
So yeah, to keep up with that, you have to be either incredibly emotionally numb to these things or just tone down your moderator activity immensely. Most people choose the latter, understandably so.
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Oh the humanity!
Take a break if you’re burned out, don’t use it to excuse sloppy moderating. It’s really not that hard to be impartial, but egos tend to inflate over time.
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It often feels a lot like being in the stocks for a crime you never committed, with some people throwing rotten vegetables at you and you having to just "take it" because you are prevented from defending yourself. That is your daily reward for tackling a never-ending workload which will eat up as much of your life as you let it
you don't get to relate to that when you're the most aggressive mods and previously have harassed users and told them they wished they killed themselves.
mods have to deal with a lot of undeserved hate and anger but a lot of the shit towards you is justified.
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I am basically retired from SG
I was not aware of that. I seen you pop up and "tell people off" for their behavior from time to time so I was not under that impression.
but I myself have contacted CG about the lack of staff on multiple occasions, and I know I am not the only Support member to do so
Not sure if you can comment on that, but has there ever been a response as to why more people are not getting added? Because I think that is a shared frustration of everyone who has ever had to make a ticked about anything on this site (and the reason why I reacted the way I did in the previous comment). From what I can tell looking at the announcements the last time someone has been added was almost 3 years ago?
Ever since I discovered SG, it has always been a struggle to both recruit and retain Support Staff.
Not really surprised and honestly I don't blame anyone for it. I have(had) my low scale experience moderating with it Playing Appreciated and PAGYWOSG and the amount of times I just wanted to throw everything out of the window is too damn high. I can't even imagine having to it on a higher scale. I just wish it wouldn't be like this and the site would get more support.
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i know a very good friend of mine who knew and could prove that a game they gave away was then just turned in to a giveaway by the winner and the submitted ticket was just ignored
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If you feel there is a potential issue, and no one in Support has yet intervened, please contact us. We are required to investigate all complaints.
That's a joke.
You people (including you) do nothing but deflect, blame-shift and derail support tickets directed at support. I have a nine month old support ticket (with replies from you and Gaffi) containing multiple infractions by a member of support (including suspending people for personal reasons, begging, and rude behavior) that's been all but ignored (minus the deflection and derailment).
Investigate? All you'll do is cover up evidence and close relevant threads and tickets, effectively brushing everything under the rug.
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Tzaar, I remember this ticket. There was a big discussion about it. Not just on the ticket, also in the staff forum, with several staff members. And the suspension you were complaining about was actually revoked. So, it's really not like you represent it here. Your criticism was taken seriously, the matter was discussed and action was taken.
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Apparently you don't remember the ticket, because it was two wrong suspensions, made for personal reasons, along with a complaint about the same mod begging for gifts, divulging suspension details to unrelated users, being snarky and rude when presented with a support question on the forums, and even wishing cancer on someone for their YT video being too long.
One of the suspensions was revoked three months after it was issued, no apologies were made to the parties involved, and that same moderator continues to behave poorly, as recent as a month ago suspending another user for no valid reason. I can link every instance I've mentioned, if you'd like.
And, as I clearly stated, all that was done (by support) in the ticket I submitted was blame-shift (to me, of course), deflect from the issue, and derail the ticket.
"Discuss?" Yeah, that's all that will be done. It's all that is ever done when it comes to wrong-doing from support. You (support) want all of this kept to support tickets, and I used to vehemently agree with that, in order to keep upheaval off the forums. However, that's simply led to nothing being done about support's behavior, and made it all that much easier for it to be covered up and forgotten.
Edit:
and action was taken.
Action? What action? A slap on the wrist? The lot of you giving him a stern scolding? Telling him he was a "bad doggy, no go potty on the floor!?" Hell, I'd bet my PC and Steam account I got far worse than he did in the God-damned ticket I submitted about all of it.
A regular user commits a foul, they receive a suspension, aren't allowed to enter/win giveaways or post on the forums, and they're often publicly scolded on the forums by support (and typically other users) for their behavior. A moderator commits a wrong, and they remain a moderator (often continuing the same behavior), they continue to enter/win giveaways, spam the forums, and no suspension is ever levelled at them. The worst they deal with is other users pointing out their wrong (often facing suspension themselves, myself included), and a support ticket that no one but other support ever sees.
And the very fucking least a moderator can do, especially when suspending someone for personal reasons, is apologize publicly to those individuals and accept accountability for their behavior.
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Those comments were disgusting, just like those bans were. What I've read in this thread is downright scary though (I mean a certain mod calmly explaining that murdering people for having consensual sex is perfectly fine).
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When the only accountability in support is "discussion" by their peers (which is also their idea of "action"), there is no accountability or impartiality in support.
The mod should have been warned the first time they wrongly suspended someone (and they should have apologized). The second time, they should have been removed from their position.
As far as this thread goes, the moderator posting it appears to be a moderator whenever it suits him. You're either a mod or you're not. You don't hang onto the support tag and police your own threads/causes/friends while dismissing other issues with "I'm semi-retired."
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that murdering people for having consensual sex is perfectly fine
Where did some one say that? 0_o
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/HgKmn/eid-mubaarak-eid-al-fitr-2021#V8hGCWL and below. Or did I misinterpret it again?
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I think he's just answering a question, not giving his opinion on something. (At least that's how I understood it)
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I mean a certain mod calmly explaining [about Shari'ah] that [according to its rules] murdering people for having consensual [homosexual] sex
is perfectly fineis a thing).
I do think you misinterpret it, or at least your comment looks like you filled in the gaps with your own thoughts and that may have turned it out quite differently by the end.
I can talk about:
some vegans thinking that eating meat is an act of atrocity against nature;
that capital punishment is still in use in the US;
that "enhanced interrogation" (torture) is in also in use in the US;
That many leaders turn their backs on genocide when they want to have good points in the book of who commits it;
and many other things;
Without actually supporting them, or communicating that it's "perfectly fine".
Also a reminder, that while some countries legalise and support same-sex marriage, in other countries the church and/or the government is out for them. Not to kill them, but to stomp on them and actively ruin their life. Better than death, but we still have a lot to go in other countries/regions too.
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I don't even know how "comedic bit from one of my favorite deadpan stand-up comedians" passed under your radar as normal and not me mocking the vile creature appearing in the video.
Your decision to suspend me was shoehorned as hell especially after just one comment and without trying to find out what I meant by the video.
You immediately jumped to conclusions and assigned me a violation of guidelines that I still don't understand, while giving the actual offender earlier in the thread the benefit of the doubt till later on in that day and only then you suspended them, even though their intentions were clear as day.
It's funny that I thought I was being singled out for mocking the Israeli president, turns out I was classified as an insensitive comment towards Palestinians, like what the hell is this?
Actually, it is more like a Ukrainian thread, where people are wishing each other "Merry Christmas" (despite being invaded by Russia), and then someone posts a Vladimir Putin video where he is saying, "I want to wish all of our fellow Ukrainians a Merry Christmas."
For a person having a space in their Steam profile for links about the Palestinian situation almost all the time, and making a giveaway right after my comment just for this thread, I'm still amazed at how quick this turned into a shitshow but not necessarily mad cuz it probably brought more and needed attention to the Palestinian cause.
I think this is a great example of hormonal modding instead of fair and just modding.
As for the people who got excited because they thought I was trolling in favor of the genocide leader, tough luck, even half of his country's population thinks he is a vile piece of creation.
Here's the giveaway, and if I get suspended again by the time this ends for a mod's false interpretation of my shitty attempts at comedy without giving me the benefit of the doubt for longer than 10 minutes you can contact me on Steam to get the key.
And stop gaslighting my comments and intentions by putting words in my mouth and ideas in my head which I didn't say nor think.
Edit: I just think about how different this comment thread would have been had you not acted like you speak in the names of Muslims in this thread, like I really want to know if you even got any complaints or you just completely are fine with suspending people cuz only you missed the point?
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- I have no way of knowing what is in your head any more than you do of what is in mine. (Your misinterpretation of my actions demonstrate that.)
- I handled your comment in exactly the same way I handled the other four comments that appeared "out of bounds." Two people complied, and that was the end of it. One guy doubled-down and was suspended. Your response I interpreted as dismissal/non-compliance, and you were also suspended.
- You are the one who chose to post that video in this thread (of all places). You are the one who chose a sarcastic and ambiguous comment to go with it. You are the one who, when things appeared to be going sideways, responded with apparently more sarcasm and flippancy. On top of that, you still refuse to comply with the directive issued to you by a Moderator of this site. Instead of taking responsibility for your own choices, you are instead blaming me for responding to your provocation.
I am not unreasonable, but your choices continue to be counter-productive. There are numerous other ways you could be responding to and/or approaching the situation, so I suggest you change tact. Compliance would be a good start. (The link to the video is still there.)
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There's no other way of understanding it, you went all Minority Report style on my comment.
I didn't know SG would be the first place to get Thought Police.
You're still talking about the link even though I explained it wasn't used for the purpose of hijacking the thread, just a bad attempt at comedy. So, how does the secret guideline that's not even in the rules still stand? Like where is the violation?
I'd be happy to comply with the rules and have never been suspended once for the past 6 years of me using this site. But when it seems like someone is flaunting their power and authority without reason, there's nothing to comply with.
You're almost taking the rule of Israeli armed soldiers being offended by finger-gun wielding Palestinian children.
Also, you avoided to answer if anybody actually complained because of the comment, because in 10 minutes I hardly believe anybody had the time to see it and process it. And IMO your overzealous response can be blamed for at least half of the negative light the comment was taken in by others.
You are the one who chose a sarcastic and ambiguous comment to go with it
Yes, and? I'm sorry for not being PC enough for your liking but I don't think that's a violation of the rules.
You are the one who, when things appeared to be going sideways, responded with apparently more sarcasm and flippancy.
I don't even see the sarcasm and flippancy in my response, like I genuinely felt like that thread needed something more than 100+ messages saying "Eid mubarak" that's why I made a giveaway and put that comment to lowkey bring attention to what's going on in Palestine.
There are numerous other ways you could be responding to and/or approaching the situation.
This is reaching psycho-analysis and shrink levels, like why am I getting all this advice on how to act and talk as long as I'm not violating the rules?
I'd rather you stick to the subject of explaining how this is a violation, especially after me explaining that I wasn't hijacking it for anything nor trying to be insensitive.
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I'd rather you stick to the subject of explaining how this is a violation...
...especially after me explaining that I wasn't hijacking it for anything nor trying to be insensitive.
Thread Hijacking: When one or more individuals commenting on the original posting go off topic, creating a separate conversation.
Here it seems you acknowledge your post being off-topic:
I genuinely felt like that thread needed something more than 100+ messages saying "Eid mubarak" ...
...me mocking the vile creature appearing in the video...
Here it seems you acknowledge the video probably being offensive to the Muslims posting in this thread:
As for the people who got excited because they thought I was trolling in favor of the genocide leader, tough luck, even half of
his country's population thinks he is a vile piece of creation.
That would seem to fit the definition of thread hijacking. And now you seem to be stuck on this point:
Also, you avoided to answer if anybody actually complained because of the comment
The answer is obvious. There were complaints. You may find some in this thread if you look. If I had no reason to step in, I would not have done so. (If I were not a Mod, I would simply have registered your post as a self-centered act and ignored it.) However, I took into account that you may have been oblivious to the insensitivity of your post, so I brought it to your attention here. Instead of removing the link as requested and/or asking for clarification as to what the problem was, you admitted you wanted to stir things up, announced that you didn't care what I thought about it, and refused to change anything. Ergo, you were suspended.
If you had posted that video in a thread appropriate for it, if you had stuck to the topic, if you had chosen to post something non-controversial, if you had simply removed the link when requested, if you had communicated clearly and/or been more forthcoming about your intentions and confusion regarding my reaction, in other words, if you had chosen any other course of action other than the one you took, it is likely that you would not have been suspended and the matter may have been resolved without the drama.
By the way, you still need to remove this link/video. Are you going to comply?
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Well yeah, this got way beyond its intended limits tbh. So, now it links to my second favorite comedian.
Plus I'm partially convinced by the evidence provided for the unintentional hijacking I did at this point.
But here's a clarification for what you quoted me on wrongly there:
Here it seems you acknowledge the video probably being offensive to the Muslims posting in this thread:
As for the people who got excited because they thought I was trolling in favor of the genocide leader, tough luck, even half of
his country's population thinks he is a vile piece of creation.
"people who got excited" as in pro-Israel/Israel's PM
"genocide leader" as in the same PM mentioned before
"half of his country's population" as in Israel's population search for "protests against Israel's PM"
I don't know why you considered half of Israel's population = Muslims.
Palestinians are citizens of Palestine only and aren't all Muslim. Also I'm pretty sure the opposition of that PM aren't all Muslim.
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So, now it links to my second favorite comedian.
That works.
I don't know why you considered half of Israel's population = Muslims.
Palestinians are citizens of Palestine only and aren't all Muslim.
Actually, I interpreted "half" to be non-specific. I understood you to be making a generalization, and it is unlikely that there is an exact count of how many people dislike the guy. Also, when I think of "Palestinians," I think of those living in that area, not any specific ethnic or religious group (and by extension, those who used to live in that area).
meh... That last sentence could probably have been worded better, but I am too tired to fix it, right now.
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Happy Eid! Although I'm spending the festive season at home under quarantine 😢
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Eid Mubarak! May this special day bring peace, happiness and prosperity to everyone.
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Some very insensitive replies to this thread sadly.
Eid Mubarak to all those celebrating!
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'Eid Mubaarak to all of my Brothers and Sisters in Islam. Kullu 'Aamin wa Antum Bi Khair! May every year find you and yours in the best of conditions. Aameen.
This year has been difficult for everyone, what with COVID-19 and other happenings affecting much of the globe. Hang in there, Brothers and Sisters, and remember that this life is only a test, a proving ground for us to provide evidence for or against ourselves on the Day of Judgement. May Allah (AWJ) keep our feet firmly upon the Straight Path and make us from among the People of Heaven. Aameen.
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