Should people who don't activate their games get new keys they win?
If a guy does this bullshit twice it should be bye bye forever. Perma-ban. A much better solution, if you ask me.
Comment has been collapsed.
Bingo. Understandable. It's a free site, and they have to generate revenue through eyeballs. Most of the eyeballs are not the people giving away games, but those trying to win them. I'm surprised there is budget for admin to actually manually go in and investigate these type of things, often for games in a bundle I might've paid 2.50 for 5 games, or something similar.
Comment has been collapsed.
+1 This is only viable option in my opinion. Why would you give a new chance for a guy who has already broken rules two times? I know that not everyone reads the rules but you could also show a notification for a guy who hasn't activated the game for 3-5 days after receiving the key / gift. If someone ignores this two times and hasn't read the rules, ban is a right way to go.
Comment has been collapsed.
To be honest, everyone should just read the rules. If they don't then it is their own fault if they get banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
+1. I am about to have to take a hit on my ratio because I refuse to give a game to someone who did not activate wins THREE times.
Comment has been collapsed.
If they didn't activate three times they should have been permabanned.
Comment has been collapsed.
Maybe he was caught for not activating games after he won those three and he already was suspended for that and now chairmankao has to give the gift (according to SG rules). Or maybe he wasn't caught yet, and he will only be suspended a short period of time because it's his first offense.
Comment has been collapsed.
Support checks past history. Those who don't learn from their mistakes (and chastisement) are eventually perma-banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
I understand, but I was talking about the fact that there are (reasonable) situations in which someone has 5 not-activated and can get away without a perma-ban.
My point was that chairmankao wants to reroll an user who has not-activated wins, which is fair, but there are situations in which you cannot reroll even a user with 5 not-activated. For example: if that winner won all those not-activated gifts 12-20 months ago, and he was caught that he didn't activate them 11 months ago, he already "served" his time, and now you cannot reroll on him anymore.
Comment has been collapsed.
i think that the number of unactivated wins doesn't count unless it's extreme (maybe like 10 at the same time), so you could get suspended once for not activating 5 games, but not banned since it counts as a single suspension (but obviously extended since it's 5 games, not 1).
if it can be shared in public it would be nice to get a confirmation from support :3 , since lots of people think sg staff is to lenient with the rule-breakers. things like this help clearing up confusion.
Comment has been collapsed.
I suspect he was suspended once for multiple non-activations, so maybe Support counts that as one offense rather than multiple offenses?
If Steamgifts doesn't want to permaban the guy, that's just the game rules that we have to accept. But I feel like I should have the option of not giving the person gifts ever.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't know if he was suspended on separate occasions for each, or whether any of his suspensions covered multiple non-activations, but I was told by one of the mods that since he's been suspended before and those non-activations were from more than one month ago, it wasn't a valid reason to re-roll.
A little frustrating that I'll ultimately be penalized because I don't want to freely give a game to a dickhead.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh you meant three unactivated games rather than being caught three times.
Comment has been collapsed.
Don't activate or regift more than once and I believe you should be permanently banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
+1
Enforcement here is way too soft and always has been. There are rarely meaningful consequences for such transgressions and it generally amounts to littte more than a slap on the wrist.
Comment has been collapsed.
-1
banning someone for life for not activating 2 cheap bundle games 1 year ago is way to harsh. people can change, and they should be given a few chances to do so. a 2-strike rule, with the end result being a perma-ban, like you guys propose, is absolutely not what we should do here. you would never apply such harsh rules in real life, why do it here? i agree that the measures to prevent regifters etc. are not sufficient. but i strongly disagree with perma-banning people for just one or two mistakes. why not do very long suspensions instead (after 2 or 3 strikes)? one month, or even two. that would teach people that they can't really get away with not activating games, but leave them the option to learn from their mistakes and become better SG users. i mean, if someone steals a pack of cigarettes, you don't sentence him to death. even if he does it twice.
Comment has been collapsed.
I wasn't suggesting perma-ban. I was suggesting that giveaway creators refrain from delivering the key to such winners until they activate all their past wins.
Comment has been collapsed.
So you are suggesting to violate the Terms of Service ?
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, civil disobedience. Sometimes it's the right thing to do, but most frequently it's just wrong.
Comment has been collapsed.
But we are not talking about laws here, but about a ToS to which every user agreed when they started using this site
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, and they might still not agree to some aspects of it and choose to not follow it, even though not following a ToS you accepted when signing up is obviously a bit different from not following a law. However given SG's place in the landscape of Steam GA sites there's no real alternative, just like for most people there's no alternative to living in the country that they were born in.
But I'm getting too philosophical here. If they choose to violate the ToS in response to somebody else violating the ToS, so be it. They will face the consequences.
Comment has been collapsed.
I assume you're referring to this part:
within 7 days of the giveaway ending, you will use reasonable efforts to send the Gift to the Winner using the Website services, or the e-mail address the Winner has provided;
Yes, that's what I do. I actually go beyond "reasonable effort" and will keep the key indefinitely for the winner, until he/she activates his/her unactivated wins. CV be damned.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but by comparing a permanent ban on SteamGifts to a death sentence I think you undermine your argument a bit.
Comment has been collapsed.
This. Someone can not understand rules (language barriers) or just forget or something. But people who regifted / didn't activated more than few games should be parmabanned. It always leave bat taste in my mouth when I send re-roll ticket and it's denied, because someone already served suspension for those few cases. It was only once when someone regifted like 6 or 7 games that he/she was permabanned.
Comment has been collapsed.
To that end, it would be nice if a non-activated/regifted game appeared on their list with an indicator that it was non-activated/regifted AND that they have already served their suspension. It would save us time in requesting rerolls, and them having to look into it and deny the re-roll.
Comment has been collapsed.
There was suggestion that this information should be visible on profile in some way (so that I'd know that someone already was suspended and creating re-roll ticket is useless). But there were concerns about punishing users that way - creating some kind of shame boxes (albeit it would cut down number of unproductive work for support).
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes. I too think that if regifting were taken more seriously we wouldn't even have to think about these issues - which are a big time sink for users as well, resulting in less giveaways and more paranoid ones at that; e.g. I now only deliver keys by chat and double-check the winner both automatically and manually, both at the time of delivering the key/gift and 7 days after (like in ringu, lol).
Obviously this makes me (and a lot of others, I guess) much more paranoid when it comes to public GAs, and sometimes it gets to the point that I pile up on games that I could gift but don't because it's too much of a stressful and time-consuming thing.
Comment has been collapsed.
That been proposed already: http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/lHp76/suggestion-make-bans-for-non-activating-gifts-permanent
Be sure to delphe into the detail-comments.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just to re-iterate - the proposal in the OP has nothing to do with permanent bans.
Comment has been collapsed.
If they have to be told to activate a gift after a week or they are clearly re gifting, then there is a problem and they have to be banned permanently :/
Comment has been collapsed.
+1 People should just read the rules before using this site (or any site that has rules). If they don't know they have to activate it or just regift it knowing all to well it is wrong, they deserve a ban.
Comment has been collapsed.
I will admit, when I created my first GA I didn't read the FAQ. After browsing the forums, before even entering my first GA I seen things that raised questions and instantly read it. Its not difficult to read it, there is no excuse!
Comment has been collapsed.
they should get perm banned if they regift it. cuz its obvious that the games u win are for your own use and not for selling/regifting
Comment has been collapsed.
I suggested a similar rule but many people say I'm too harsh...
Comment has been collapsed.
nope, you suggested 1st regift = permaban rule, I suggested similar: http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/lHp76/suggestion-make-bans-for-non-activating-gifts-permanent#Kry6BVH :D: But to tell the truth both me and many others has suggested this for a long time and multiple times, so it's nothing new ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
I explained there, that ban should be lifted, but only after activation. But your suggestion is fine too.
Comment has been collapsed.
Its just an error prone process. And errors leads to need of user support. Lots' of it.
Also errors lead to friction between users / staff / site. Can make feelings sour.
Comment has been collapsed.
Let's not discuss it here again. I answered about errors back then a couple of times.
Comment has been collapsed.
Not a bad idea. Anyone can make a mistake and should have a chance for redemption. Only one chance, though.
Also, this obviously couldn't apply in the case of games that are no longer available.
Comment has been collapsed.
They should be prohibited from entering GA unless their wins are activated, but not perma-banned imo.
If they do it for more than once and have no intentions to correct their mistakes, permaban might be the best way to deal with them.
Comment has been collapsed.
Nah, bad idea. It would cause to much problems for support, which already is overhelmed with work. Not to mention a little thing like how much time would winner have to 'clean his history'? And given that, why GA creator should wait who knows how long, when (s)he wants to gain some nice CV?
Honestly, I think this is overthinking easy problem - check by yourself, ask for reroll, report. I would only add something like "fouls system". For example - you didn't activated 3 gifts? Permaban.
Comment has been collapsed.
but we already have reroll request with a reason that user didn't qactivate / regift their win. It's just timed now - you can request only if it happened in one month time which is silly as most lvl 0 accounts don't win several times a month anyway, and high level accounts don't regift. So all we're saying is removing nonsensically small time-frame from the rule that already exist.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, I know this exist, this is what I said. And I think there is more that you are saying. Removing time frame is one thing, and permabanning everythink is second thing (as some people proposed in comments, including me).
Like I said, I see it that way - leave it as it is (well, and remove that time-frame). Report people for non-activations, and regifting. If user have, let's say, 3 notacitvated game at account - permaban (of course it would have to be checked manually by support). For rerolls - get evidences, report. If there are two prooved cases of regifting - permaban.
Comment has been collapsed.
Not only that, but I think that if they get suspended within the time frame it's still not enough. They should activate the games, or not get any further keys (either enforced by the giveaway creator, or (preferably) by the site rules).
Comment has been collapsed.
but that's what I'm talking about. Give everyone an option to request a reroll if user ave not activated wins - doesn't matter if he didn't activate them one week or 3 months ago, if he was suspended for it already or not. He may always buy a key and activate it. BUT - it should be an option - aka GA creator requests a reroll, not something that is enforced because it may disencourage some GA creators. Some may don't care - I believe they're wrong, but it's their money, their gift, their decision. Some may don't have time to bother checking - because they run big few hundreds copies developer GA and if you force them to check winners manually they will decide not to make GA. Some may make many GAs, some may be going to vacations in 15 minutes and they just have these 15 minutes to send gifts before kleaving and so on and on.
Comment has been collapsed.
The one month rule afaik is only for Activation, I recently had a user win who had won a mass GA then ReGift it - it was over a month ago but he had not been reported yet - and was suspended for 2 weeks for the infraction with my reroll approved.
Comment has been collapsed.
We all make mistake and again and again but again ?! no, not again !
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it's possible a new user who doesn't understand could make a mistake and mark received before actually activated the game, but then again, the first thing I did after registering was reading the FAQ and everything you need to know is in there. So I think everybody should be aloud a mistake, if they rectifie it, then they should be banned, but more than once is just not OK. I mean you make a mistake, then you should know not to do it again once somebody tell you how it works. But regifting is a different matter althougether, that I think deserve to be ban. You should know to enter a GA, if you actually want to play the game. I would be rather insulted if I found out that someone regifted a game I gave them instead of asking for a reroll, that's just a matter of common sense.
Comment has been collapsed.
It should be only those that are non-activating / re-gifting reoffenders who are at least barred from entering giveaways and this should be done automated and not by SG users reporting other SG users.
Comment has been collapsed.
the problem is it cannot be automated, because STeam API returns a lot of false positives (you have game in your library but it doesn't apper in API) so it would result in a lot of unfair bans bbbecause of API bugs.
For example all these games return false positive: http://www.sgtools.info/whitelisted plus probably many more we just don't know aboiut yet, because noone reported them yet, because there were no or very few GAs of these so they weren't spotted yet etc.
Comment has been collapsed.
There's an obvious technical solution to this. I think the SteamGifts devs are just too complacent and don't want to improve their site.
Problems detecting DLCs, subs, and other things by the current SteamAPI names should be rectified.
Steam Syncs should be mandatory, and the user's game list difference-checked after the "Received" button is pressed. (Actually, they should use the Steam API to activate each key.)
The site should detect when the user has seen any keys on their winner page.
There should be an option on by default for email notifications upon winning a giveaway.
Automatic rerolling after a week of not checking the winner page (when key is given on SG).
Someone should not be able to win the same game twice, such as from the big concurrent vendor giveaways.
Comment has been collapsed.
Problems detecting DLCs, subs, and other things by the current SteamAPI names should be rectified.
The only people who can fix this are Valve employees. No one here can do a thing about this since it's the unreliable Steam API that's at fault here.
Steam Syncs should be mandatory
It is, once a week.
the user's game list difference-checked after the "Received" button is pressed.
I agree, support should have a page with flagged users where they can review cases where the game doesn't appear on the next sync after marking as received.
Actually, they should use the Steam API to activate each key.
There is no steam API to activate keys. Valve implemented something at some point that was used by Humble, IG and Groupees, but they removed it long ago.
The site should detect when the user has seen any keys on their winner page.
I could see the key while travelling, but I won't be able to activate it until I'm back home. This could work for your auto-reroll idea though, but it's no guarantee that there's a valid key being given away.
There should be an option on by default for email notifications upon winning a giveaway.
An email option would definitely be nice for those who do not visit the site on a daily basis. (it would be annoying on re-rolls though, when someone receives an email, go to SG and doesn't have any win because it's been re-rolled.)
Someone should not be able to win the same game twice, such as from the big concurrent vendor giveaways.
Once you've marked a game as receive it should definitely count as owned, whether you have it or not in your library. Preventing double wins can cause issue if the 1st one is invalid then you miss out completely. (Not that you would know.) Since the new rule for featured giveaway is in place, there are no ore multiple dev giveaways for the same game so it should be less common.
Comment has been collapsed.
I will not agree with the last option. You should not enter GAs you won because you should own them already, but in case something happens to your win and it get's removed from your library you get punished twice for doing nothing wrong. I've once had a situation when my won GA got revoked from my library - apparently GA crewator got chargeback-scammed. He was good guy so he got me another copy and delivered it again, but in case he didn't should I be permamently prohibited from trying to win this game again just because I activated it, marked (so did all according to rules) and then it got revoked?
Comment has been collapsed.
I've once had a situation when my won GA got revoked from my library - apparently GA crewator got chargeback-scammed
You would just go back and mark the game as not received until they delivered another copy. AFAIK you can do that even years later.
Comment has been collapsed.
The site should detect when the user has seen any keys on their winner page.
This I agree with. I think keys should be hidden and the winner should have to click "show key" for it to show. Before the key is shown, the winner should have the option to request a re-roll (one that does not have to go through support, but that happens instantly when you hit the re-roll button). At this point the gift giver will be notified about it and will have to send the key anew to the new winner.
Comment has been collapsed.
"I think the SteamGifts devs are just too complacent and don't want to improve their site."
Your impression is incorrect.
Comment has been collapsed.
honestly, i feel this is better than banning people for regifting, since rule-breakers will have a chance to fix the issue AND it prevents them from exploting more GAs by winning > not activating won gifts again.
but
i think in practise it will create a lot of issues since steam api will return errors form time to time and it will block some legit people from entering GAs.
Comment has been collapsed.
thing is we, and especially support, are all well aware of what games give false positives in Steam API :> If support see that you requested a rerol, because winner for example didn't activate Crazy Machines 1.5 they will not grant you a reroll. If they see winner didn't activate let's say Witcher 2 they will grant this reroll :>
Comment has been collapsed.
But ... but ... hat happened to your avatar??? I almost didn't recognize you O.O
So, nowadays you're smoking pumpkin, yes?
Comment has been collapsed.
i didn't reply because i thought it was an impostor :3
here, fixed avatar
Comment has been collapsed.
well - I change my avatar every October and Xmas - it started 2 years ago when we had thematic events for Halloween and Xmas on SG - everyone were making their steam profiles look more festive or scary depending on holiday - for xmas everyone wearing santa hats - for xmas having scary avatars ;) Even if we don't have halloween forum event this year - I always do change my av and/or profile :>
Comment has been collapsed.
What I'm actually suggesting is that instead of waiting for SG to implement it programmatically, we (giveaway creators) can do it by not delivering the key until the winner activates all their un-activated games. The winner can of course decide not to do it and mark as Not Received, but there are negative consequences for them too - they don't get the game they won, and they put the spotlight on them and risk in being blacklisted by others.
Comment has been collapsed.
you can already do this - you won't get suspended or anything if you get not received. But wouldn't better option than wasting GA slot, having "not received" etc be just being able to request reroll, give your game to someone who deserves it, gain your GA slot, gain your CV etc? :>
Comment has been collapsed.
Most of my giveaways are bundle games and this doesn't happen very frequently, so I'm fine waiving CV goodbye. If I gave something like Valve Complete Pack it would be more difficult to stomach, that's why I'm never going to do it in a non-whitelist GA.
With the current site rules, the only option I see (with users who were already suspended and don't agree to activate their wins) is getting the occasional Not Received.
Comment has been collapsed.
but since you won't get a big hit on cv for not delivering , who not follow the site rules and send the gift to the winner, even if he has unactivated wins? (after being denied a reroll request)
i wouldn't do this with a expensive game like you mentioned, though...
sooner or later those users will get banned. and you can blacklist him after sending the gift so he won't bother you again. :3
Comment has been collapsed.
I just feel better about getting a Not Received in these cases than gifting bad users.
Comment has been collapsed.
In a Venn diagram, how big is the intersection between "people who don't activate their gifts and trade them or sell them or whatever" and "people who don't activate their gifts and trade them or sell them or whatever and are willing to buy a copy of each of those games at full price and activate it to amend their sins"?
Comment has been collapsed.
if not activating = no more free games for you - it may be motivation to repair your previous wrongdoings. As it is right now there is no motivation to do right thing to GA creator who in good faith sent you key/gift you regifted. You wait out your 5 day suspension, you loose nothing as low level is not likely to win so often that 5day susp would make any difference and you're happy that you get away with barely a little slap on your hands. If you have to repair the damage with your own money - first you are much less likely to do it again, second - regifters who are aware that what they're doing is wrong but do so anyway because they find the risk worth it wil much less likely do it in the first place.
Comment has been collapsed.
You certainly have a point. What I am saying is that in practice, few people will shell out ten bucks to buy that bundle game that they won and regifted. Is this is intended as a deterrent and there'no expectation that people will actually "repair", then it's all good.
On the other hand, I think most people regift out of ignorance, as they don't really have much to gain from doing so, so the deterrence might just not be there.
Oh well, fake giveaways are a bigger problem anyway, if you ask me. I personally see nothing wrong with regifting.
Comment has been collapsed.
the big problem with regifting is:
1: breaks SG rules
2: is disrespectful to the GA creator, who paid the gift so the winner could play it (not resell, trade or gift it to someone else)
3: contributor level exploit, since won items can be regifted several times (specially in a closed group dedicated to this)
fake giveaaways have minimum impact in the site "balance":
1: eats points and delivers nothing to the users/winners
2: creates false hopes and makes people cry :3
Comment has been collapsed.
I missactivated my key once onto my girlfriends account, and some guy instead of calling me a scammer and reporting to steamgifts and shit wasted 15 minutes if his time to point this out and suggest how to fix everything. Glad not all people are butthurted rednecks
Comment has been collapsed.
erm - to tell the truth you were the one who didn't meet the rules. Ok - it was an accident, but nonetheless you did not meet the rules. If you are caught speeding in the city by a policeman, because by accident you didn't look at your speed meter, does policeman is just butthurt redneck because he gives you a ticket? No he enforces the rules you broke.
I also two times accidentally activated won games on my fiancee's account - and you know what? I simply bought or traded for another copy of the game to activate it on right account instead of calling names people who just want you to follow the rules - problem solved.
Comment has been collapsed.
He's saying that the person took 15 minutes of his time to help him instead of calling him a scammer and reporting him for not activating it on his account.
Comment has been collapsed.
and he also saying that if another person reported him that means this person is a "butthurted redneck" (error quoted, it should be butthurt ;p)
Comment has been collapsed.
Butthurting over nothing as usuall, yeh, glad you realised that i talk about people like you :3
Comment has been collapsed.
For people who like to screw the System, meaning repeat offenders, I would implement system where System will screw with them... Simply, let them keep entering giveaways and be part of community, but in data base would flag them as invalid winners, meaning in case that if they are chosen as winner System will automatically re-roll for new one. And as keeping them as part of community they have chance to redeem themselves and get their flag removed.
I think this way they stay "perma-banned" by their own merits, but not ex-communicated so they are irredeemable.
And for always vigilant concern citizens "who will code this" .... anyone with any knowledge in programming can tell you its few lines of code in winner choosing method, additional column in data base and single field data base update. Of course there might little more work in background due my lack of knowledge for SG's system.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oooh... I like that. I can imagine a regifter entering thousands of giveaways and not understanding how come they don't win anything anymore...
Comment has been collapsed.
I think that it would be nice to get something so that you have to play a game you win before you get more...
I kind of felt cheated when I gave away a game and the winner never played the game at all (for the record I think that even if the winner played for 1h it would be enough, just so that he's actually interested at all in the games he wins). After my first GA the winner asked me what the game is. He told me he entered all giveaways that were on the first few pages of Steamgifts without even looking at what the games were :/
Comment has been collapsed.
I think there should be a two-strike system. Not as in 2 regifts and you're out, but if actions are being taken against you for doing it once, and you still end up not activating gifts/re-gifting after that, then you should be out forever.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's almost how it currently works. There's an extension on a repeated offense, and a permanent for the third time. Although you can get a permanent on the 1st or 2nd suspension if there are too many infractions.
Comment has been collapsed.
Unless the user tells SG support that Steam won't let them redeem keys and they're waiting on Steam support to fix this (who knows how long that'll take). Right?
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for a profit, I can tell you my key is a bundle crap. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you activate all your past winnings, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
Comment has been collapsed.
at least dont let them join other giveaways unless they have all the games they won :S
Comment has been collapsed.
This goes without saying. Anyone who has unactivated wins gets on my blacklist, though they can earn their way out by activating these games (it hasn't happened yet, but I'm hopeful it will).
Comment has been collapsed.
Regifting/non-activating is a slap on the wrist here (a few day suspension) because that's policy handed down by the owner to volunteer admin/support.
The owner wants people to keep coming here, it increases ad revenue.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it's fair to only deliver a key to winners with questionable history (i.e. not activating / re-gifting) after they clean their history by finding alternative ways to get the keys they somehow lost, and activating the games. Your thoughts?
Here, have a giveaway. And if you have some un-activated games, maybe take care of them before joining? :-)
Comment has been collapsed.