Damn, I should've added a poll just to see statistics...
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I 'd suggest your friend sees a doctor asap. Obviously a person who doesn't find a meaning in life has a problem and needs immediate assistance.
You ask for reasons? Where to start and where to end? Countless reasons. Every moment we pass living is yet another reason
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And what does the doctor do? Tell her how to find a meaning?
and how is every moment another reason?
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The doctor checks him. If he/she is experiencing depression or other thing.
People normally shun this as if it something weren't important (or real) but even medicaments can change our brain chemistry and induce some effects in this way.
Seriously, he/she should find help. It's a health issue.
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The doctor helps you through talking to understand your mistaken point of view.
Every moment it is another reason as there are countless things to do at every moment.
Below you will find my suggestion to your friend's problem. It is how i found the solution to my problems. Before you read it, know that my suggestion will sound biased to some SG users.
You want me to give you a meaning? Go to a church (Orthodox, not Catholic or Protestant) and ask a priest "what is the meaning of life". Then listen him and think.
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mistaken point of view
Ah yes, I see this whole argument has no point...
I've talked to Christians, but not Orthodox so that might be worth a try, although I don't know how since most of them probably only speak Russian...
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Are you asking for a good reason to live or what our motivation to live is?
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Do you happen to have both? :D
I don't know, any, and all
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I don't have a good reason to live.
Why I live is because it's easier than killing myself. I don't have the motivation or strength to really kill myself many ways. Most ways besides a gun require way more effort than I'm willing to put into it and I can't get a gun until June so I'm just passively living until then.
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Did he answer you and delete it?
If so then I can imagine what he said...
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I talk to her every day and it seems like she's doing okay. I haven't shown her the thread (or even mentioned it) since she probably wouldn't approve...She's pretty antisocial and doesn't want to get anyone involved.
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This! 2 years ago I went to a 4 day trek in the Himalayas. It was so beautiful! Snow up to the top of my legs, wind so fast I could barely stand, no sigh of civilization or technology anywhere! Now whenever I feel hopeless I just think about that. Moments like that, seeing something truly beautiful, is what I live for! Beauty like that can't be just found in traveling, you sometimes see it in art, and sometimes, even in people. You just need to keep looking! And when you find that someone or something with the kind of beauty that stays with you, impacts you, and only gets better with time, don't let go!
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There can be lots of valid reasons to live... the main one would be the pursuit of happines, whatever that may mean for a person. It's dependant on a persons interests and values.. do what makes you happy, try to have a different perspective on things, find those little things within the big picture.
You never know how your life will turn out being after a while, either because you begin valuing things you didn't previously notice or just because you meet people who give you that feeling of happines for whatever reason.
A different reason might be trying to make the world a better place.. that's quite idealistic, i know. But you can try having an impact on other peoples lives by helping them in some way or just changing things for the better so that others wouldn't have to go through the things that made you suffer to the point of wanting to throw it away.
There's a lot more to say on that topic but that's just some brief ideas that came to mind for me ^^
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Yes, but what if you can't do what makes you happy and probably never will...
You never know how life might turn out, it might even turn for the worse, it would be much easier to end it now.
One of my main flaws is that I'm idealistic, but the problem is that none of it matters. I help a person and then what? Everyone dies and everything ends, it's just deceiving yourself.
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That is not idealistic ^^ Noone can do more than try to make a difference, if it works out in a positive way - great. If it doesn't, try to figure out where it failed and why. There's always room for improvement in someway. If you helped a person lead a better life and maybe even spread that further, then that person will lead a better life than without your help.
Religion or spritualism aside death is pure nothingness. Life is the one shot you get at making a difference for yourself and/or others.
Personally i don't believe any bieng wants to be truly malicious, people who act that way are just ignorant of the big picture and only try to act positively for a small part within their own horizon.
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Motivation to live? mm... food... thats a biggie right there...
But in a more serious response... to prove people wrong :) i was told time and time again when i was a teenager that i would fail and anything i did (this is coming from all sorts of people both close to me and not so close) and now after quite a few years (you can't just expect things to change overnight) I am doing better than most of those people that were criticising me, so now its just about maintaining that and relaxing a bit :)
Another one? travelling, there is a whole world out there to explore
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To be honest I think reason to live for each person are different
By saying your friend have no point in life does it mean he is in depression?
If yes, you should consider consult a psychiatrist. If it's depression disorder your friend need to take a pill. It can't go away by itself.
Oh, and I may suggest anime name "Clannad" and "Clannad After Story", both give me motivation to live quite well.
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reasons to live:
gaming
idling cards
leeching
giving away stuff
making others happy
watching movies and tv-shows
meeting with friends and close family
well, i think that covers my reasons. maybe you will like some.
Since apparently nobody likes puzzles
>:3
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I said my puzzles :D
but I like that you can enjoy such things ^^
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Well, it is hard to convince someone who has no reason ..... depending on his relations to his parents it might help to tell him/her that his life is a gift of his parents and he should maybe treat it with the respect it deserves.
Other than that it reminds me for this song here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbnY4cCebog
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She has been abused her whole life (including sexually) by her parents and she has basically noone, all she wants is to disappear without anyone noticing...
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Yea, that sounds like a hard job for convincing. Did you listen into the song? The lyrics cover actually a pretty hopeful tone but it might not work at the moment. On the other hand it is not that she "lost her reasoning to live" rather she never posessed it. You may argue about it but actually it might be easier. Have you thought about partially giving in to her wish in the sense of disappearing as just starting over somewhere completely new. Maybe it is best to let her "disappear" where she is at the moment and "reappear" somewhere else in the country. Or is there something that attaches her to the place she is? It might be a problem of money and age, don't know about that.
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When I say disappear, I mean literally disappear, to not die, but to not exist...Starting a new life would be possible, but that would require a lot of willpower and money and she doesn't really have either.
It's a great song, I like it
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Bump. There's countless little things to add enjoyment to our lives. All it takes is a little but continuous effort find them, both in everyday life, but also in hobbies, and having fun with other people. Seing different parts of the world/places could also help to widen one's mind. Your friend obviously needs help asap to change his/her way of thinking if he/she really does not find any single thing interesting in life... It's sad, and would imo require immediate attention cause it does sound quite serious...
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I'll try to keep that in mind, I was just planning to invade Russian next winter :D
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Just try to be a good friend. Talk with them. And please don't try to argue a moral high ground.
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When I was considering suicide as an option since I couldn't find any reason to live, I came to my position about reason for living from the opposite side. You see, death is inevitable. Whatever you do, there will be a moment in life that will be your last. So really, when thinking about ending a meaningless life, you choose between living and possibly finding your meaning and something good at all, and loosing any chance of getting it.
So really there's nothing to loose. If there is no meaning in your life right now, keep on living, it may appear in the future.
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Of course there isn't nothing to lose, but if living hurts and you only want to rest, why continue, especially if you're not interested in the future?
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Because you just don't know what might happen. You may not be interested in the future NOW, but things might change, and if you knew what's coming you'd be more interested. Plus, the final rest will never escape you anyway, there will never be "oops, missed my chance, not able to die now" situation.
Then again, if you, say, are experiencing a disease that hurts you a lot and there is like a 100% guarantee that life will not get better, then euthanasia is a considerable option.
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I left this comment else ware as a reply too, I am posting it again so you see it.
2 years ago I went to a 4 day trek in the Himalayas. It was so beautiful! Snow up to the top of my legs, wind so fast I could barely stand, no sigh of civilization or technology anywhere! Now whenever I feel hopeless I just think about that. Moments like that, seeing something truly beautiful, is what I live for! Beauty like that can't be just found in traveling, you sometimes see it in art, and sometimes, even in people. You just need to keep looking! And when you find that someone or something with the kind of beauty that stays with you, impacts you, and only gets better with time, don't let go!
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But not everyone is interested in beauty, some of us just want kindness(?)...
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I don't mean beauty literally, my friend! By beauty I mean anything that touches your soul. External beauty is irreverent, internal beauty is what I speak of.
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I didn't mean physical beauty either, you can be blind to both...
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Oh, look, a typical Estonian thread.
Well, my life has been shit, but I never seriously considered the exit. Why? But because this is the only chance I get. Being an atheist, I believe once I die, I'll just cease to to exist, there will be nothing. Now, being alive, there is something. It may not always please you, but sometimes it does, and it's the only chance you get. It's a privilege. And let's face it, Estonian life is not that bad. Sure, the second world country problems are there, but most of us have homes and enough food to eat, and that's already a reason to be thankful. Teach her to be thankful for what she has. Life may have no real reason, but in the end everyone can make up their own reason, or even "why?" -"why not?" kind of reply to those existential issues.
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Ah yeah, I was expecting that opening sentence ^^
But what would you do if you live in constant fear of your parents and don't have the means to leave...
And some of us have seen too much of life already, I'd just like to rest in peace. If there was something after death it would be just horrible...
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don't have the means? Just grab a backpack, stuff in as much food as you can, take all the money you have, and just start walking
do not do this if you're a minor child. the world is a dangerous place
I never got this whole "I can't" crap. The only thing stopping you is you.
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Yes, but all the money means like 10 euros and when I said means I meant mental as well. She can't find the will to leave, it takes too much effort and her parents would call the police and so on..
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What dingbat said. Just leave. Or punch the parents in the kisser if they abuse you. Maybe you should save her, like a prince on a white... duck.
And lol@that "have seen too much of life already". It's some teens saying it, every time. Or in the best case, someone in their early 20s who's not used to adulting yet, so confused.
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When I go back home, old friends always talk about how my sister and I just up and left - moved to another continent. Someone will say "I wish I could..." or "you're lucky to be able to..."
Nope. Everyone can. It's just that most people don't.
Same as when I hear someone say they don't have a choice, they must, etc. Just because the alternative isn't something you'd ever want, doesn't mean you don't have a choice.
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Sorry, should've said "enough of life", bad wording. But how do you punch someone 30? kg heavier than you and a lot stronger. She has been working out lately and it's one of the few things keeping her going...
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But how do you punch someone 30? kg heavier than you and a lot stronger.
With a knife.
Well, okay, no punching. She could just get a job and move out. It can be an easy job that anyone can do, or one of those better paying jobs that women can do, IYKWIM.
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If only I were a women and hot, I'd be rich by now :d
or dead
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If she's working and saving money, it's only a matter of time until she has enough to leave. Just hold tight and keep in mind that life can be mostly fun, with few and far between downs. It's worth the effort, but without doing what's needed to get there she'll never know.
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First, I ask you a question. Do you want your friend to live and be with you? If the answer is yes, I think this is one of the reasons to convince her to live.
And if not you, there are other people who would like her to live. I lost a friend, I had no idea he wanted to end his life... It's been more than a year and I still can't wrap my head around it. I still live even though my life is not perfect and I keep him in my memory but I would rather he kept me company... You don't know how many people your life and death can affect.
I hope your friend seeks some professional help and I beg you to help her go through it. Even if you can't find a definite answer, just keep her company, please. Encourage her to live.
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I do want her to live, but not if she's unhappy. It would break me if she killed herself, but I wouldn't stop her.
She has found professional help and was in a psychiatric ward for 3 months and took antidepressants and nothing.
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Being happy and unhappy is not a state of life. Both things happen, some people are happy for longer, others suffer from chronic unhappiness. But I suppose she's is still quite young and eventually she might find a way to be independent (as from what I've heard she has some issues with her parents). It's never easy to live with someone who disagrees with you constantly but I suppose her parents care for her but probably not enough to see there are very serious issues. The best would be if her parents talk to a professional too but I suppose it's very hard to make them see that...
It's good she already tried some professional help and I'm very sorry it didn't work out. What are the doctors saying now? 3 months is a very short time and depression is not easily vanquished, even with modern chemicals. I hope she didn't stop because the antidepressants didn't help her after 3 months of taking them?
I suppose deep in her heart she wants to live, that's why she went to a doctor and that's why she talk to you. Be with her, try to make her smile, even if that would be a short-living smile. Find something she can pass time with... Just pass time, she won't probably 'enjoy' her time at first. Just make her not think how unhappy she feels.
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Um, what I meant was that she was like 3 months locked up in a psychiatric hospital. I don't know the exact details.
I haven't even seen her for 3 years or maybe more, all I can do is try to cheer her up online.
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Ah, yes, I somehow thought that after that she wasn't under professional care anymore. My fault.
That's very hard for both of you if you can't see each other. Is it nearly impossible (very long distance or the journey is not easy to make) to see her even 1 day per week? If so, try to talk to her personally through skype (not just writing) or phone. Check on her from time to time with some funny picture or gif.
But the most important - I think you should tell her that it would break you if she died. Maybe she thinks that you will not feel it so deeply? Just don't say it out of blue ;) Only when she starts talking about it again.
Not sure if she enjoys this kind of picture, but here you go:
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There may not be a point in life, but it beats the alternative.
Quite frankly, we're all going to die eventually, and we don't know what comes after, so we may as well make the most of what comes before. Having the viewpoint that there is no point in life can actually be beneficial, in that it gives one a certain freedom to do things other people would be afraid to do.
Tell him/her to go on an adventure. Whether that means traveling the world, or just taking on a nearby challenge, s/he should just do it, because, what have ya got to lose? You might not find meaning, but you will have stories to tell. Hopefully, s/he'll have some fun along the way as well.
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so we may as well make the most of what comes before
But why? What if she is completely uninterested?
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I saw it before you deleted, but why would you get in trouble for it? :D
But that is a pretty dangerous mindset, that's how you lose people, especially when you say it outloud to them.
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There's actually one fundamental, logical reason to live:
While we are alive, there is potential, and death is always willing to embrace us at any turn.
When we are dead, we lose all potential at life, and can no longer pursue death.
From a purely rational, economical viewpoint, killing yourself off while there's still potential for change- no matter how improbable- is simply missing the point of life entirely.
Moreoever, speaking as someone who has been suicidal and known plenty others [including several who have died], overwhelming suicidal compulsions are solely due to chemical imbalances.
Now, before that invalidates anything else, let me clarify:
Those imbalances typically occur because your mind basically starts closing in on itself in a self-destructive loop, due to pressures or dissatisfaction from life.
Suicidal thoughts are normal, and even the most healthy individuals will potentially contemplate them if their lives are at an unfortunate turn [in fact, in many ways it's the fact that we have death as a potential escape, that makes life bearable].
And those thoughts can lead to compulsions.
And if the basis for those thoughts is an inhibition to the potential for change- ie, you're dying already- then you may be able to rationally give in to those compulsions, as the underlying thoughts themselves are a rational enough reason.
So, put simply:
Nothing your friend is feeling is wrong or shameful, and the basis for why she's feeling those things is likely quite valid as well.
However, the reason she's reacting so intensely to it, without special basis to do so, is due to a negativity loop-
Essentially, chemical imbalance creates negative thoughts, which generate more chemical imbalance, which creates more negative thoughts..
The easiest way and often most effective way to break free from that kind of loop is a complete change of environment.
So, the question your friend needs to ask herself is:
"If I'm willing and ready to kill myself anyway, what harm does it do, doing something extreme like joining Peace Corps or backpacking Europe or something instead, first?
I can always kill myself afterward, anyway, if that change of environment and perspective doesn't help."
And, of course, as a last resort, or if the initial trigger is a chemical imbalance, rather than environment, medication can help as well.
Basically, the sum of it is:
There may be no justification to live, that you can see or appreciate at the moment-
but there's even less justification to kill yourself, without trying desperately to live first.
Not necessarily because life is just so darn awesome, like others will indicate, but because death is permanent and life is not.
Always run down your options as long as you're able, before burning your bridges behind you.
And, if your friend is intellectual, she can mull this over:
If life is so shoddy, but death is guaranteed, then why am I so concerned with dying faster?
Because the world sucks, right? Sure, but.. if it sucks or not, if I can't feel terrible about that fact, I wouldn't want to kill myself, right?
And while I can rationally say, given what I know now, that life isn't worth living- though there's always the potential that there are things I've yet to see, that'll change my mind- the overriding desire to kill myself doesn't make purely logical sense; since if I CAN kill myself at any time, I shouldn't need to feel rushed into it- if I'm actually acting out of rationality, rather than an imbalance.
For what it's worth, it does change.
Especially if she's still in the preteen through mid-20s range: Many people seem to have profound increases in suicidal tendencies at that large age range, due to the hormonal elements. And people of that range are so sure in their emotions, that it can become overpowering. Which isn't to say the sentiments are wrong- to the contrary, most teenagers I've noticed are actually quite right in their thoughts. They do, however, lack full perspective.
A child is not stupid for not knowing things, they simply lack experience and the same breadth of cognition as someone older. A teenager is the same way- even if experience can't change their sentiments, that change in cognition that comes from continuing to grow, usually does it.
Thus, the youthful suicidal, they get caught up in the moment, in the compulsion to kill themselves, while pushing aside the obvious fact that they can always do it later.
And it's understandable- that unknown wait for answers and changes that may never come, it's crushing, overwhelming, devastating.
And those overwhelming emotions, they do pass.
But, does life get better?
Hmm, that's the question, isn't it?
It's one you can't really find the answer to while dead.
So: Is feeling like killing yourself wrong? No.
Does killing yourself make you weak? No.
Is killing yourself wrong? No.
Is giving up on life without admitting to the possibility that your viewpoint might be unnaturally influenced by chemical factors wrong? Very much yes.
If you're going to go out, do it confidentially, knowing the decision truly was your own, standing on a burning car, laughing at everyone with your middle fingers raised.
If you need to kill yourself in a dark corner, ashamed and in pain, then there's something wrong with your approach, and the premises behind your desire.
So, if your friend needs a less indefinite answer to 'when will life get better/when is it okay to die' than 'someday', then simply say this:
When she's 30.
Make that bet with her.
She can give up the next 2/3rds of her life, if she can struggle through the first, doing everything she can- through medicine, adventure, pursuit of ambitions, and otherwise- for the remainder of that third.
If you've deliberately fought to change your fate, who can call you weak for one day giving in to it?
But simply giving in without trying?
Oh, it's inviting, but, and pushing aside silly words like weak and easy, it is, at its heart, a shameful thing. Not because you're killing yourself, not because you're giving up on life-
but because you're giving up on yourself, without fighting for yourself first.
And that's understandable- the suicidal, they tend to think of others before themselves.
But in this, your friend needs to take the time to learn to think of herself, before committing to something so very final.
While I make assumptions about the age range based on probability, you can just exclude those sections for reference if they don't apply- the rest certainly still is valid regardless.
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This is really an interesting point of view. Thank you for the good read. And while I agree for the most part, I don't see why would someone suicidal bother with doing something extreme. I have never been suicidal so I wouldn't know myself, but I had many friends who were going through this stage in their lives, and with severe depression, they are mostly not interested in doing anything. Although it is true that the alternative is worse and they have to (at least) try, these people can not think healthily and this is the reason they are having suicidal thoughts in the first place. So I don't see it likely for them to find the motivation for putting effort into some formidable action.
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That's a point I was trying to make, actually.
You're referring to people with clinical depression, who are having suicidal thoughts.
That's a big difference to people with suicidal compulsions, which require a certain emotionally charged mindset that one study I read suggested as being very similar to the mindset you have when you kill someone in battle.
Whether that study was accurate or not, it is a reckless, driven. overwhelming, desperate thing, which is a notable contrast to the more apathetic despair that comes with depression.
The usual inhibitions toward self-harm not only vanish, but basically reverse, making your hand eagerly cut that knife into flesh, rather than jolt to a pause upon contact with it.
While the negative (and even suicidal) mindset behind [non-clinical] depression or suicidal thoughts may be fully justified and reasonable, the overwhelming depression or suicidal compulsions are not, and indicate chemical imbalance.
Put in a different context, someone may determine rationally they neither want nor can support their newborn, and drop it off at a safe harbor location. A mother with postnatal depression may or may not have those same underlying rationales, but feels compelled to completely dismiss, ignore, devalue, or hate the child. It's overwhelming and emotional, versus the first, which tends to be more of a rationalized, forlorn conclusion.
You may cry either way, you may hate yourself either way, but one is under your control, and the other is not.
A main reason you go to see doctors [even if, in my experience, nearly all are incompetent] is to get confirmation that you don't have compulsions that are affecting your judgement, so that you can validate your rationalizations as, in fact, actually being rational.
If you learn that it's an affliction, you can try and devote your negativity toward it, rather than the world- assuming, hoping that if you can conquer your affliction, the world will be alright after.
If you learn that you're primarily thinking rationally, then you can focus on trying to conquer or change the world directly, or determine that, yes, this is in fact as far as you're willing to explore life.
Also, toward one of your points: Suicidal thoughts are not unhealthy. To the contrary, it can serve as an affirmation of sorts. Since death does exist as an escape, knowing that it's available and refreshing your mind on that with a passing suicidal thought or two, can let you catch your breath and move back into things. Alternatively, you can just view it as a simple stress response [that presumably you drink away and forget], which it is.
But persistent long-term suicidal thoughts either reflect an unhealthy mind, or a calculated abandonment of life.
Overwhelming suicidal compulsions, the need to kill yourself right now, the overwhelming despair and anxiety of life.. that appears to be purely an imbalance, in every single instance.
Think of it this way- assuming you're like most people, and like sex:
That's basically the distinction at play, here. When it becomes an overriding compulsion that affects your behavior, rather than a simple mindset, then it's a sign of a disorder.
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I'm not sure I can say anything but I agree 100%. Your message covers almost everything that I would be saying, but much more eloquently.
The only other thing I would add is exercise - I believe studies have shown that exercise can be used as a tool to help combat depression. It's not a reason, but exercise may help remove the need for a reason.
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Other than the general endorphin boost and so forth, there's actually a strong psychological as to why exercise helps- regardless of if you enjoy or don't enjoy exercising, the end result is a more responsive, healthier, vibrant, self-reliant, self-possessed body. That sort of self-validation, that sensation of being able to count on your body in more and more ways, adds a massive confidence and encouragement boost, when dealing with life.
If you're disabled or otherwise feeling broken, it can be all the more massive a gain.
After all, the effect of all the worst issues we encounter in life, is us having to feel feeling helpless and powerless.
And this, developing ourselves, helps us feel a bit less so, in every thing we do.
:)
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Hey guys...
Since apparently nobody likes my puzzles, I thought I'd make it easier this time. Here is a step-by-step guide to get to the giveaways
Step 1: Pass test: SGtools
Step 2: ???
Step 3: PROFIT
Now that I have none of your attention, I've got a real puzzle for you.
I hope it's not a bannable offense. I was hoping one of you could give me a good reason to live.
My good friend sees no point in life and I don't have any valid arguments (because I don't see either)
Besides the classical ones like it's selfish/it's illegal/god said so/life is great, so yeah. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
TL;DR: Vote for Bear instead of Trump at the God-Emperor "election"
Edit: Fuck me, I didn't realize SG uses a calendar with Sunday as the first day of the week (first time I noticed) and I wanted the giveaways to end on Sunday not Saturday :D
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