Do you think that SGTools giveaways should be compatible with privacy?
The advantages of SG tools clearly outweigh .Conclusion:If you don't like how SG tools is currently working,ignore/don't enter SG tools giveaways.Problem solved !
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By "clearly outweigh", you mean like 54% vs 46% (the current status of yays vs nays in the poll; sure, there are two yes items, but that's the balance of those who care nothing about privacy against those who care something). Those numbers at least give food for thought.
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Hi mv,
forget your bullshit poll ! It's not representative for entire SG Community ! If you have problems with your privacy don't enter SG tools GA's.It's your (personal) problem not SG tools.Deal with it.
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I really should start using SGTools more, seems like more and more useful tool everyday.
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I understand the purpose of privacy. Privacy is a great thing for many people.
However, this is a community, and in order to be part of a community (especially where you can get free things) you have to abide by the rules. SGtools relies on public profiles to check to see the eligibility of users based on certain criteria, and that's a sacrifice I'm willing to accept. I've taken up checking all (well, except for some groups which regularly vet) my winners and I've only come across, what, two private profiles? When I check a private profile, it makes me somewhat uncomfortable and while I send the key without knowing if the user is compliant, I'm not always happy about it. I know there are legitimate reasons for private profiles, but it also opens loopholes for abuse, and I think using SGtools giveaways can prevent that loophole. Now, I've only created a couple of giveaways (or maybe just one? My memory is fuzzy) back in early beta to help KnSYS test, but I appreciate having the option. Honestly, the portion of people with private profiles is pretty slim and I don't think it affects a statistically significant portion of the community (judging by my winners' average private/public profile rate, which is somewhere around 1%) and that portion includes some users (not every, but it's hard to tell how many) trying to game the system, which is a legitimate reason to be concerned about private profiles.
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Where do I say the minority is insignificant? Statistically insignificant, perhaps, but that is a technical term referring to data., usually referring to a value of 5% to 1% depending on field or focus. There's nothing meaningless about a minority in this case; I'm merely making the argument that there aren't a ton of people affected. I do, however, find the ways some people use private profiles to be problematic. I'm simply making the argument that:
1) The number of people impacted by private profiles is a very small portion of the user base of the site.
2) Some of those people use it in ways that attempt to evade the rules, though not everyone and it's difficult, by the nature of private profiles, to verify who is following the rules and who isn't.
3) Private profiles are a legitimate concern because of the difficulty of confirming rules violations. SGtools can be used to reflect that concern.
Whether you like it or not, I'm just laying out some thoughts about why people dislike private profiles in the context of Steam Gifts.
Now, if you want my opinion, I dislike the use of private profiles on this site entirely. If you want to have privacy, or hide your inventory, or whatever, you should NOT get in the way of me verifying that my winners have actually activated their gifts. I send my gifts to users on the assumption that they are going to activate the games on their account and this is what I do when I win a game. There's a phrase "trust but verify" that I think is relevant, especially considering the vast scope of non-activations here, especially at lower levels. Even a batch of twenty or so level 2 giveaways I did resulted in ten or so "bad" profiles (multi-wins or non-activations) and multiple cases of repeat offenses. In the case of a private profile, I either have to contact support to get them to sniff out whether the user has activated their wins or assume that they have activated their wins, and given the rate of abuse I see going on, especially in the lower levels, I find this deeply problematic. This doesn't mean that this group is less significant; they still make up the same size and proportion and can be legitimate as winners whether or not I like them. However, I find it to be a problematic option because of the opportunity for abuse, since given the statistical distribution 1/3ish level 2 winners are in violation of some rule on their profile, the majority of which being non activation, as many as 1/4 level 2 (bets are off for lower level) private profile users are either intentionally or unintentionally concealing rules violations, assuming that no intentional concealment is going on that would skew the ratio.
TL:DR, private profiles make it easier for rules violations to go unreported, and given the rate of rules violations among low level users many users with private profiles could conceal these violations, even accidentally.
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Fair enough, see the edit to my previous response. What I'm trying to discourage is the mindset that a minority isn't worth making the effort to accommodate.
I'm not trying to "get in the way" of you verifying my conformance to the rules. I will make it is easy as I can without abandoning something that is important to me, and I'm keen to see it be made as easy as it can be by whatever technical means this community can come up with.
sgtools might well be the answer, if it can overcome the issue I've raised.
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When you're considering around 1% of the steamgifts community, statistically speaking, I don't see why it wouldn't be easier for that 1% to adapt to the rest of the 99%, instead of trying to change the whole system altogether. Majority wins, that's just a given in life. As you've said, minorities shouldn't be ignored, but at the same time, if 99% of users can use their steam profile on the public setting comfortably, why can't you?
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I think there are a few legitimate reasons to have a private profile; I do think, however, there is a legitimate question of whether the use of a private profile is for a good reason or just to hide offenses. Since there's almost no way to guarantee the validity of a profile if it's private (activated wins, etc) it's a pretty big issue. It's supposed to be bypassed by syncing so you can't enter for games you own, but the issue then is that there is no automated "synced games does not include wins" system (mostly because Steam API is trash and doesn't report DLC, some games, and packages well) to verify that winners do, actually, follow rules.
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At least I don't really enter giveaways that much anymore, but I like my private profile both because it heavily cut down on scammers bugging me, and because it lets me leave notes for myself that no one else can read. Note to self: Pick up Check, Cash Paycheck, Buy Milk.
You would not believe the amount of beggers and scammers I had adding me every day when I was public. Even this weekend when I forgot to go private again after a trade I got quite a few before I switched back to private.
I've always felt bad ever since a a couple of fans on separate occasions clicked on links on my profile that a scammer had placed there and I had not noticed in time to remove. I tried disabling comments but then people who used to comment kept asking me to turn it back on so they could comment. I did miss all the funny comments I used to get so I went Friends only with comments open. Unfortunately a sweet talking scammer got me to let them stay on my friends list and once again a link got placed there, and the second fan fell victim to it.
Fans getting scammed and unending flood of bots trying to trick me or beg from me I figured that was enough. I went pure private. No one can complain about not being allowed to comment if there are no comments showing. No one can slip a bad link in if I forget to turn comments back off, if there is no opportunity to leave a comment. Private profiles get ignored mostly by scammers and bots because they think you might be one of their own kind!
From the past weekend when I forgot to go private again I even had someone asking me for 20 copies of Rocket League (5 of the 4 packs) and a brand new scam link added in the comments section. I just hate the way they can be insidious. Start talking all friendly, you enjoy the conversation then bam, beg or scam. I am a nice person and I hate turning people down, sometimes their requests are reasonable and I still feel bad turning them down because I don't have the funds to give everyone everything they ask for.
I don't mind being excluded from SGtools GAs because like I said, I don't enter much anymore. Perpetually at 300 points. Just I think it is kind of harsh to assume everyone who is private has something to hide or are evil, shifty, terrible or out to get you. It could just be they want to be left alone or that they are tired of all the annoyances of running public.
I am not a social butterfly for those comparing Steam to social sites, I prefer being alone playing single player games and I don't need everyone knowing what I am playing... it could be something embarrassing like Secret of the Magic Crystals due to being a closet Brony! That kind of info leaking out would really damage my image as being a vulgar game person!
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Not everyone with a private profile is trying to break the rules; technically, according to SG rules, you're actually allowed to have a private profile.
I do agree, however, that if someone broke the rules, they could use a private profile and be basically undetectable without constantly watching unless their violation was multi-win or forum related.
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normally my first reaction to someone with a private profile is they are trying to hide something, maybe that's incorrect, but I really don't see how letting people see what games you own could be a downside. My profile is always public.. sure I get the occasional person adding me to beg for games.. I typically give them some old insightful saying, then remove them as friends.. possibly block communications. I just don't see the purpose of a private profile, but if someone wants to use one they need to also accept the fact that it's going to make them seem suspect to some people...
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I think it's up to the creator of sgtools to choose how he does this thing, as he is the one ultimately implementing this tool to help GA creators having a better way to check their winners.
I don't know if my experience is representative, but most rulebreakers on this site i've met didn't have a private profile. Don't know if this is because there are a lot more public user that private ones, or most rulebreakers just don't care if they're discovered, because they just want free games with no hassle, but it would probably best for everyone if there would be a way found to let everyone participate in the GAs, as long as they have followed the rules stated. I think i've read some ideas for it in here how that could be done in theory, but it would be good to see if they could really be done in that ways.
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My two cents, which really isn't worth much. I don't really check, but I mostly give out the best games for the higher levels, and well groups. But I did do a giveaway recently. It was a pack of three games. The person who won asked for a reroll because they already had two out of the three games (my first reroll ever). The new winner's profile was blocked, I couldn't see their inventory etc. I still sent it anyway, I don't know if they had two out of three games in the trilogy pack that I gave out. I simply bit the bullet and gave the game away, but it didn't really sit right with me. I don't go searching for rule breakers, I don't have the time or the inclination, I just hope that someone plays the games or enjoys what I give out.
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So much drama. I don't understand why someone needs to make their Steam profile private at all. The first thing I think when I see one is that they're hiding something, and I prefer those to stay away from my giveaways, so I voted "no".
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my profile is flagged for "unactivated wins or private profile"
I've activated my wins(rule checker says i did)
I've changed all privacy to public(including library)
I've re sync, logged out, multiple times
but still i'm flagged
am i doing something wrong?
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you probably need to wait a while, because your info is cached.
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To the wonderful SteamGifts community, a wee word if I may...
A recent change in the implementation of sgtools.info means that giveaways created with it are likely to exclude entry by those with a private or friend-only Steam profile.
sgtools generally helps people automate checking SteamGifts policies or additional policies of their choosing for giveaways, but this is a serious divergence from SteamGifts policy (i.e. SteamGifts has no problem with private or friend-only profiles, so long as the profile owner opens it up for just long enough to sync at least once a week). and it seems to be currently implemented without the knowledge of the giveaway creator (I've just asked the sgtools.info maintainer to at least make it clear that this is happening).
In the meantime, I'd like to at least try to make folks creating giveaways via sgtools.info aware of this, since not respecting the privacy of others when creating a giveaway should be an explicit choice (I won't go so far as to say it shouldn't be allowed at all, as much as it irks me!). If you respect the privacy of others, I urge you not to use sgtools to create giveaways until/if this is resolved.
I would have no problem if I could just open up my profile long enough to enter one of the affected giveaways. but apparently this isn't possible due to some cacheing implemented by sgtools (partly as an anti-cheat mechanism, I'm told). The sgtools maintainer is reluctant to even tell how long you would have to keep your profile open to allow the cache to expire, but it's apparently longer than a minute and shorter than two days.
Thanks for listening, and feel free to use the poll to help gauge the community's feeling about this.
EDIT: some folks find my wording to be a bit one sided, and Sooth has suggested an alternative.
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