Should asset flips and non-games be purged from Steam ?
lol too bad they were not purged from my library as well
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You can purge them yourself if you actually care that much :)
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You can always remove them yourself but now that they are removed they are like a very rare fossil of dinosaur poo (or any other extinct species).
It's still crap but it's rare crap :D
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One key gives all games and there are several places that have either given them away either recently or currently are giving them away. They aren't even close to rare.
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Yeah, I know :D This was mostly a joke about collectors mentality when it comes to removed games even if they are utter garbage. I'm guilty of that myself sometimes. (NotGTAV)
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He did the "Digital Homicide" drawback from steam move!
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So it was a voluntary decision ? I couldn't find out more in the Community Forums of his games but I have to admit I didn't check them all.
I probably interpreted that wrong since Digital Homicide didn't cut ties with Steam voluntarily neither.
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I did lookup all his games and the Steamdiscussions. Many users mentioned he was also acting aggresivel vs those who badrated the games also he wanted to get into lawaction against em ^^
So Steam did cut the ties cuz of abuse
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hums "When will they ever learn ? When will they eever learn ?"
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Sorry, took me a while to realize I should probably add this to OP since the Why is one of the most important questions when games get removed. Too many messages to reply to and stuff to verify ;)
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So sad, another high quality game developer bites the dust. :V
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Sorry, I didn't mean non games as in movies, kinetic novels and other stuff that doesn't necessarily qualify as a game but rather non-games as Steam used the term in their recent AMA with I think it was Total Buiscuit.
Which means games that are not intended to be played but rather solely programmed to cash in on Trading cards (and potentially that new thing with tiny games that have 1000+ achievements that can be gotten in half an hour but that wasn't a thing yet back then so I think they didn't mention it.)
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I thought the term they used was "fake games."
That entirely possible. I didn't participate in that AMA but rather just read the summary here on SG afterwards.
Sadly I can't edit the poll so I'll just hope that everybody reads the full original post so they can see my clarification.
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Lot of responses considering nobody cares...
It might not be the first time this happened but a lot of people still do care.
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I do care about not constantly getting bombarded with recommendations from steam for these kinds of games, due to people around me card-farming them mr. Cheatcode :P
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depends of what you are talking about by "non-games" walking simulators? visual novels? or purely "games" that dont work? or what?
(asset flip, yes of course)
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Yeah, sorry I phrased that a bit unclear. I just clarified that in OP and in my reply to Movac.
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yep, i agree with that definition to some extent the thing is... just pressing a button for it to pass images/text can be concidered a videogame? are visual novels videogame? what makes that different from an ebook or even fricking encarta?
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Wasn't there a lot of bundles from this so-called developer on sale this week? All of them announcing 2000+ achievement as clickbait? sounds like he knew he was about to be kicked out from the store.
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Yeah, they also changed some depots this week so that if you owned 1 of their games suddenly you owned all 6 but I'm not completely informed on that matter.
Torch Cave 2 turned in 6 Crimson Duck Games Vol.2 - strange repacks
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Funny is I still can drop (and sell) Torch Cave cards. I never cared to drop those, but since I remeber those cards in my badges list I checked and Torch Cave cards are still available to drop. Isn't this one of those market-ban cases? I'm guessing people will drop the shit out of those cards and this Crimson Duck asshole will have a small victory here with his cut from the sales.
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Yeah, if what moppelmurks pointed out is correct that Steam cut ties because they threatened to sue Steam users for badmouthing their games just as Digital Homicide did, that's really weird because IIRC with Digital Homicide removal from Steam and market ban happened at the same time.
Edit: I was wrong. There were ~ 5 month between removal from Steam and market ban.
All Digital Homicide games have now been delisted from Steam 8 month ago
Digital Homicide wants to sue Valve for having their Steam games removed from store 8 month ago
Digital Homicide's cards are now Non-marketable 3 month ago
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All Crimson Duck games removed from Steam
i'm sure "Zonitron" and "Crimson Duck" - its the same developer, so not all games removed^^
Zonitron Productions
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Thanks for pointing this out.
Since it's one of the top posts anyway and not confirmed for now I guess I won't be adding it to OP for now ?
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Not confirmed ^^
Check devs friendlist with steamrep historical Data 😊
Also Crimson Duck Studios greenlight page
I can't find Sleengster 2 :О
EDIT probably Silicon Echo=Zonitron=Crimson Duck 😝
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Also Crimson Duck Studios greenlight page
I can't find Sleengster 2 :О
Maybe at that point they already had credibility with Steam so they didn't have to go through Greenlight anymore ?
Although that thought made me laugh out loud :D
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check Domain info, owned by 😝
Silicon Echo Studios kickstarter, check info about company - verified person
GrabThegames=Silicon Echo+Zonitron+Crimson Duck 👀
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Ok, seems legitimate. I'll add it to the OP.
Any idea if those are asset flips as well or just bad games ?
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maybe lets wait for more proofs? ^^
idk why valve removed this, maybe they found that Sleengster sold only 1 copy in steam store and there're ~179,567 owners of this game (key activation)😝😝😝
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Your research seems fine to me but unless they are asset flips as well I'm not completely sure it necessarily belongs into this same thread. On the other hand from what I can tell all of them seem to be really bad games and people might wanna know about the connection to a known asset flipper.
Since you found out about it I'll leave the final decision up to you. (until then I'll leave it in the OP for now)
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I'm quite sure Zonitron and Silicon Echo are not the same, if only because I know Zonitron from when they just released Why So Evil and actually tried to listen to feedback... Zonitrons devs are from Croatia, and their only connection to Silicon Echo is that their publisher is the one that started Silicon Echo... Crimson Duck is also a different developer, with the connection being Grab The Games again... Although Zonitron acted as the spokesperson and english writer for Crimson Duck, that was on request of Grab The Games, as Crimson Duck itself doesn't speak english, that is also where the connection ends but it's also where people got the idea they were the same. I think Crimson Duck is Chinese, as the 3 company names they had since they started on Steam were all registered in China by the same person (not 100% sure though). Grab The Games seeks out devs that are willing to make quick, cheap games, offers them a publishing deal and then pushes them to act like this... The deal they get varies, but its basically "we pay you more the faster you release games with trading cards".
Quite a few of the bad games with cards had a connection to Grab The Games, and it probably won't come as a surprise that a lot of them only earned money through the card sales... They have a few legit ones to keep up a front, but most of the devs they get on board are only in it for a quick buck...
There's a lot more to it, but this should cover the basics...
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That seems a reasonable explanation as well. Since I wasn't sure if this information belongs in this thread anyway since (so far) none of the games by Zonitron Productions and Silocon Echo were confirmed as Asset flips I have removed that information from OP.
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Yea, it's all part of the Grab The Games drama, but that's an entirely different story.
Also, the reason they got removed might not have been due to it being asset flips, but due to them attempting to cheat the new trading card system by creating legit owners for all their games by converting them all into bundles. I had a ticket open with Steam support about this, and the last reply I received before they closed it was that they would investigate, right before the games were removed from Steam. Can't say for sure though, it may take a while until we know the reason this really happened, if at all.
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Indeed. As I said in my reply to Tristar a bit earlier all we know for sure for now is that the vast majority of Crimson Duck's games are Asset flips (with the possible exception of Barclay) and that they were removed from Steam. Everything beyond that is speculation for now.
By the way Thanks for investing your time by asking question and bringing this to Steam's attention. It's people like you who help holding the hobby we all love to a higher standard ;)
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I was extremely annoyed that these games all suddenly appeared in my library the other day. I did not ask for them, nor want them in any way, shape or form. I hid them in my library right away, but when I idled card, there they were. It took hours and hours to really get rid of them. I wish there was an opt out of being forced to receive shitty shitty games.
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Yeah, that repackaging BS can be really annoying. I think I can even remember a case where they added a Trial version of Game A to the depot of a different game that prevented you from activating the full version of Game A. And you couldn't get rid of it without deleting Game B as well.
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Aha, I just checked indiegala, and I had gotten "Torch Cave 2" from one of their freebies. Still, I never did ask for the rest. This whole "give all my games away so they can farm cards, so I'll get a cut", is something steam should look into. They should really curate their stuff way better instead of allowing asset flippers to operate for a longer period of time.
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Interesting. You went for the free game when it was on IndieGala with the intention to get a +1 in the library and potential to farm the cards of, but when you get another 5 with the exact same intent, you are offended. Strange contradiction.
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I can see where you're coming from, but I wasn't aware it was an asset flipper game. I don't want to support such things, nor have them in my library to help give them legitimacy. Being aware of it, I certainly didn't want the rest of their catalogue.
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personally, I don't give a s#!t if the game has 1 ou 10k achievements but I'm glad they're gone either way,
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Although the "fake game" problem is worse than just "achievement fraud". I mean gettin 1k+ achievements in an hour is ridiculous but at least some of those games are ok-ish puzzle games if you ignore the achievements.
Actually that was just me putting "achievement fraud" in the same category as "fake games".
I think in the sense Steam used the word recently "fake games" are games created with so little effort they are not made to be played but rather solely to cash in on Trading cards.
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Yes, of course. I know that crapware devs uses 1k achievements as clickbait, and it's not that I'm ok with that. It was just a personal note.
I'm glad Valve is getting slowly rid of those guys. If it weren't for them there wouldn't be the need to make all that noise about Greenlight vs Direct stuff.
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Just wanted to clarify because I was afraid I might confuse some peopel with a) using the term non-games instead of fake games and b) throwing "Achievement fraud" and "Fake games" into the same category ;)
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Yesterday I "played" a game that gave 1500+ achievements -- simultaneously -- after only 5 minutes of playtime...
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96% of players have 100%'ed the game. That means 4% of people thought it was so bad they couldn't even idle it for 5 minutes. :P
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Damn... I missed part of the point the first time I read this.
So all of those chievos just for starting up the game and playtime ? (if they are unlocked by idling)
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Yeah, you get the first 24 (or so) achievements about once every 10 seconds. And then you get 1500+ plus all at once. Regardless of whether you're playing well, you can literally start a game and just sit there and get killed over and over and you'll still get the achievements.
And if you look at the achievements, it's literally just the same generic one over and over again. Not even vanity achievements like letters.
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this is why i only do exchange and don't use steam market for shitty games.
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Never heard of any of those names (neither dev nor games).
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If it wasn't for developer begged GAs here on SG I would have never heard about them neither.
coughFreesteamkeysforucough
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I'm afraid those devs are probably prepared for something like that and already generated a gazillion keys to give away for free just like Digital Homicide did.
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I am afraid that those games gave him enough rep in the key extortion business to continue with the next shady publisher.
On the plus side, thanks to him being a clumsy idiot who did not even know or care about putting the keys under the real names, we identified a few thousand bot accounts. And probably made a few thousand tickets, blatantly rerolling all those who marked the wrong games received. :D
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Nah, that is often normal for "Developer" accounts. Due to rounding, you stop getting any CV after 105 or so copies, and if they promote the same few games, they stop earning CV completely.
I still regard this higher than those "developers" who just extort all kinds of keys to have enough variety to skyrocket themselves to the highest levels. coughStalzcough
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Yeah, we customers as just as much at fault for supporting that kind of crap and selling our Greenlight votes for cheap Greenlight Bundle keys :(
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At first I read "Duck Game removed from Steam" and was extremely afraid. Thankfully I don't care about this particular kind of ducks.
(I remember there was a giveaway with a huge amount of "7 Crimson Duck Games" keys, or something like that, week or two ago. Last-minute attempt to make profitz?)
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SteamGifts was recently flooded with all of their games (first seperately than as packs after the repackaging) otherwise I would have never heard of them.
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Now if something could be done about the Arcane Raise (and sequels) spam as well I would be grateful :x
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I didn't even know about that yet. At first I thought you're talking about that Withing Kingdom: Arcane Wars game (which also had 2 version on Steam that seem to just have different camera positions).
Too many shitty devs on Steam to keep track :(
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He is even on steamgifts and gave away many (thousands) of his games because he could easy generate the keys on steam. I cannot say his name because it would be "calling out" but I think you know who I mean.
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I think my cough is acting up again.
Yeah, I know who you mean ;)
But I didn't know it was the dev personally. I just assumed it was the usual developer begged GAs BS. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Am I crazy or was there not a bundle on Steam containing the games under Silicon Echo?
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You're not crazy.
Well, maybe you are but you're still right :D
Crimson Duck, Zonitron Productions & Silicon Echo the same person ?
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don't forget steam isn't innocent here too.
the reason steam acts so slow in such cases, is it wants to earn on it too. eventually, when the well is almost dry steam turns it off to show us how much they care.
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You're right. In my opinion even we as the customers carry part of the guilt as well for selling our Greenlight votes for cheap Greenlight Bundle keys and generally supporting behaviour by devs that is detrimental to gaming.
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you're right too.
greenlight wasn't even close to guarantee the quality of its games (btw: i voted 2 or 3 times, for games i simply liked).
and again, it's steam to blame for bright idea of greenlight (with such catchwords us 'quality', 'players choice' or 'support the indie devs') poorly hiding the real one: to get more income. moreover, steam moved the responsibility to us, the players, as 'we' were deciding by voting. now greenlight is closed and what do we have instead of it? another tool for (even easier) steam income.
steam is a tool to make so easy and so big money, that the 'pocket' became so lazy to do anything, think anything or even care about anything, including itself. it has learnt it (doing, thinking and caring) is useless - the money will come anyway. that's the reason steam now is going down. even if most of us can't see that. or maybe don't want to see?
i'm pretty sure there will be more 'crimson duck's' soon.
much more new games, much more new easy achievements, much more new easy money - a swan song?
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cards are still marketable, which makes a forced termination unlikely
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Possibly but although I have said differently above IIRC with Digitial Homicide I think they first got removed from Steam and only then after a few month where they kept flooding the internet with free keys Steam made their cards not-marketable as well.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
All Digital Homicide games have now been delisted from Steam 8 month ago
Digital Homicide wants to sue Valve for having their Steam games removed from store 8 month ago
Digital Homicide's cards are now Non-marketable 3 month ago
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because they were the first case, now it happens immediately
as of now, the real reason is still unverified
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I agree with you that right now we're mostly guessing. That's why I used the word apparently in the things other people found out after my original post because the asset flip thing is confimed, the rest is partly speculation.
Maybe the dev saw reason on his own and decided to quit "making" games and is now becoming a baker ?
I would instantly support that decision :D
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At this rate the Removed Games Collectors group will probably up the 130 removed games requirement again.
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Probably but at this point I have pretty much given up on ever joining that group.
Frankly, I don't even see the point anymore... (in collecting bad removed games, not in the group itself)
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I joined in August 2015 and then you needed 60 games.
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Well, the card system got fixed to make it much harder to do that, so we should see a steady decrease of that kind of game. Unless a certain amount of people buy the game on Steam, the card drops won't start. The amount depends on review scores and prior reputation, so a dev who released 3 good games before will need to sell less copies than a first time dev, but one that released 3 bad ones will need to sell more. This also means that if a bad game is released, it likely won't meet that requirement and never get card drops, so the devs of such games won't have a reason to release it on Steam anymore. Exceptions to this are verified and well known devs with a good reputation that have sold a large amount of game copies on Steam already, but those generally know how to make good games. :)
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I had an idea earlier... it's harsh but I see no other way to fix the problem. It's not really a new idea but would fix the current system in my opinion.
No trading cards at all till a certain threshhold of sales directly from Steam has been surpassed. (5000 - 10.000 maybe). Key activations don't count at all even if they get "played".
I know that would fuck over legit Indie devs as well but I see no way around it because otherwise this scum will always find a way to weasel around the rules.
Edit: Actually it might be a bit too early to use this sledgehammer tactic yet... Probably better to observe the long term results of the recent changes first.
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That sledgehammer tactic is actually almost exactly what Valve is doing, there's some more variables to determine how many copies need to be sold on Steams store, but that's also why some companies started aggressively bundling their games to meet those numbers. In that regard, it kinda backfired.
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Crimson Duck Studios is back. :(
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?developer=Crimson%20Duck%20Studios
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so
- valve removed all Crimson Duck games from steam store
- valve closed greenlight but decided release all probably good games on this week
- Crimson Duck Studios greenlight page
- Break The Wall released, and probably 3 new Crimson Duck games coming soon.
😮
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release all probably good games
But wasnt he banned becasue all his games were shit?
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i have only one explaining - valve don't even look what kind of trash they release 😭
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You don't get booted off the store for releasing shit games.
You do get booted off the store for being a shit developer (sending death threats, threatening with frivolous lawsuits, posting fake positive reviews for your own game etc.). I thought that's what happened here.
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valve closed greenlight but decided release all probably good games on this week
We'll see. Steam Direct officially starts the 13th I believe, so starting from then we will know if there's more shennanigans like Destruction 48, which apparently hijacked the store page for Slippy Slug (the threads on it's discussion forum about the fact have been wiped already, surprise surprise), and the packages for which initially did not actually contain the game (supposed to be fixed now, I'm not going to spend anything to try and find out).
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+2 games Crimson duck games from greenlight
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?publisher=Crimson%20Duck%20Studios
So, its true - valve don't even look what kind of trash they release 😭
Valve bulk approves "many" of the lingering 3400 Steam Greenlight games
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break the wall released on 9th june, today is 11th june, the game not purchasable.
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check the time of the post, it wasnt available at that day. it is now
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I don't think that their previous games were removed by Valve and cut ties with the developer.
Otherwise there wouldn't be any more new games being added and the game card/emoticon/wallpaper sales would have ceased at the market.
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Rejoice because another disgusting Asset flip developer has been banished from Steam :D
I just noticed that all Crimson Duck games have been removed from Steam. Crimson Duck is / was a notorious Asset flipper and not a single one of their games was developed by them (except potentially Barclay: The Marrowdale Murder since it's not mentioned in the video linked below but since the game was released after the video I highly doubt they programmed that themselves neither.) but instead they bought them as is from various Asset stores. I wasn't aware of this until I stumbled over this video from SidAlpha linked in a review in one of their games.
Developers like this seem to have no shame at all so I'm glad Steam is finally doing something about it and starting to purge their Store (even if slowly).
Removed games include:
Since the Store pages have been removed I can't look into this properly so if there are more games from Crimson Duck that have been removed please tell me and I'll add them to the list.
Just to clarify: I use the term non-games in the way Steam did in their recent AMA not for movies, kinetic novels and other stuff that does not necessarily qualify as a game but rather for games that are not intended to be played but rather solely to cash in on Trading cards and Achievement fraud (1000+ achievements that can be gotten in ~half an hour)
As moppelmurks pointed out the dev apparently pulled a Digital Homicide and threatened to sue Steam users for badmouthing his game so Steam cut ties because of abuse.
Thanks to everybody who went the extra mile and looked into this matter further than I did. Your researching skills are top tier SteamGifters :D
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