I agree, to an extent. Private giveaways at least you can often find in the Discussions. Group giveaways, on the other hand... A lot of people only make group giveaways (for groups with, say, fewer than 100 members).
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And you are angry at those groups because they wont take you in ? Since all you contributed was 4 copies of that CV exploit called clickfusion.
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I'm not angry and I haven't applied to any groups. No need to jump to conclusions. I'm speaking to the point of the OP, which is that giveaways for a restricted, very small number of people relative to the whole SG community, be they whitelist or group or what have you, don't contribute much to "the community". So, as far as people being upset about ratio and contributing to the community, giveaways for 5-20 people aren't much better.
Same point: https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/u2AqqtL
P.S. Thanks for the blacklist. I already won a game from you earlier, which is regularly on sale for 21 cents on Steam. I was happy to win it anyway, but I guess I could have said, gee, thanks a lot for a 21-cent game. See, I can be pissy, too.
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That wasn't a strawman... He asked a question, then made a statement to imply if his question was indeed correct, it would be a bit ridiculous to expect more from others then oneself.
Strawman
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
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It was precisely a strawman. The complaint is about people who get their CV from ratio groups and such acting all high and mighty to people with less impressive ratios despite not actually having contributed much to the general SG community. The point is that they should keep that phony elitism to their cliques (or drop it entirely, but that's asking too much of them), and not that 5n or the OP want to join the circlejerk. So DontBeSilly trying to redirect the argument towards the latter is very clearly a strawman.
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I don't find 5n and the OP share the same opinion, I find that 5n misinterpreted the OP. He seems to have an issue with group giveaways in general because they're exclusive. Thus to me, DontBeSilly's comment was more or less calling him out for thinking he has justified reason to question how people choose to giveaway their games. In a sense, you can then argue that 5n is being elitist himself, by thinking he's better then those who make exclusive group giveaways, giving him the right to call them out. That's not what I'm saying personally, just saying the argument could be made. Anyway, in the end, I still don't see it as a strawman, if anything, I'd say it could be considered an ad hominem, because more then anything, it's attacking 5n's character or value to the site. Would I have done the same as DontBeSilly? Not likely, as I don't give a flying **** what people think. I'll giveaway games in whatever manner I like, and tough luck to those who have an issue with it.
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Eh, everybody will always find a reason to complain. My region restricted giveaway was for a region restricted game, my private giveaways were for better games and puzzle threads. There's never a point in talking anyone down, that won't contribute anything.
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Private often means forum giveaways: trains, puzzles, or just dropping them to one of the threads that center around collecting such stuff (you are not alone, giveback, peace, positive, drop-your-invite-keys, and so on).
Region-restricted focuses only on a group of people, like group giveaways. Both are exclusionist based on whether you are in a certain kind of circle or not; whereas private ones usually only ask you to read the forums, otherwise more open.
Granted, SGTools filters changed a lot of that. Still, when you see any random non-bundled game on the arhive and for example meet 80% of a new one locked to CIS* and the other 20% being private, which one are you more mad at? The ones you may have found at the forum somewhere or the one that uses a built-in 50% price discount to farm CV through the roof without you having the slightest chance to participate?
*Or China. Right now only these two regions do this en masse. Interestingly, other cheap countries like India, Malaysia, Indonesia, or Brazil don't tend to join this race. part of me is a bit curious why.
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part of me is a bit curious why.
According to comments I've come across by users from those regions, part of it is just the nature of the site's statistics: All the regions mentioned (with the notable exception of Brazil) apparently only have a very small number of representative users [ie, more likely gravitating toward a count of hundreds versus thousands]- meaning they'd have a hard time making a visible display of region-restricted giveaways, compared to the much higher represented China and dominantly represented Russia. (Regardless of how accurate that impression is, just reviewing the stats page indicates they can't have much more than a third the representative population of China.) Couldn't say why you're noticing Brazil being less represented in that regard to China, given Brazil's twice-as-high representation stat.
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Not in general, in this particular behaviour. You can choose pretty many games with a higher value and good marketing, and a hefty portion of their first 10-30 giveaways will be CIS-locked, or for the past few months China-locked. I am curious on why no other cheap regions do it. SEA and SA do pop up, but more like occasions and not with clear groupings like that, plus often months later.
I mean, okay, they are CV farming. It is not that difficult to find the level 9–10 users with 80%+ region-locked CV. But since high levels are e-peen and have no real return investments, there is no harm done in doing that. I am not even questioning their motives, I am curious on why we don't see similar larger number of people from other regions (like Brazil, which also has quite a few users) doing this. it is just strange that this is a very localised bandwagon. :)
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Well, purportedly there are quite a few Russia/CIS sites and groups related to Steamgifts- not surprising, given how significant a portion of the community they represent. What you're seeing may still just be a minority which utilizes the less positive groups, those dedicated to CV-exploitation and giveaway leaks. In other words, it may be a visible subcommunity of Steamgifts, where other regions may tend toward less organized interactions.
I've no hypothesis to offer for the other regions, though.
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Was those Russian/Chinese users, or just Russian/Chinese Giveaways?
Maybe there's more of those because those are the cheapest, so NA/EU users are gifting those region-locked games to better ROI on their CV farm?
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Giveaways, true. The only way to determine if someone is from a certain region or at least manages to fake it convincingly enough even for SG is to check their wins for region-specific giveaways.
Although I have to add, India in this case could also be a good target. I have seen them being the second after Russia on SteamDB price lists. (Then again, finding a working and stable Russian proxy is usually easier.)
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Because South America it is not a cheap region. We pay ROW prices but have restricted gifts.
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Not Brazil, they are usually cheap. But the regions here put the entire continent into one.
Same goes for CIS, by the way. Only Russia and maybe Ukraine get the super-low prices. There are CIS countries that use a higher (but still sub-ROW) price called CIS US price.
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+1
If is not a steam key from Bundle Star (not all of them btw) or HumbleBundle, Kinguin, G2A (having problems all the freaking time with this site), etc. WE CAN'T GET ROW COPIES OF A GAME IN SOUTH AMERICA and at least in here (Argentina) we pay full USD ROW prices for games and get RESTRICTED COPIES.
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Do you really think that people from restricted regions intend to "use a built-in 50% price discount to farm CV through the roof"? Sure, there may exist some jerks that actually like to exclude people from other regions, but mostly we just buy unbundled stuff via Steam like others when we want to make high quality GAs. I don't approve limiting GAs to region-restricted ones at all, not when there are tons of cheap bundles out there, but "getting mad" feels a bit too much, we haven't exactly chosen this restrictions.
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Not think, know. I did a 50-key level 10 giveaway and I checked each person's SGTools stats individually. You'd be surprised how many have at least 75% region-locked CV. (Coincidentally, it was one of my most painful giveaways with the highest reroll rates in a recent while, and I dropped a few hundred keys to level 0 public since then, to give some comparison.)
At any rate… CV is practically useless so I don't really care that much about them doing it apart from my usual curious nature; giveaways over level 5 are rare, over level 7 are rarer than a blue moon, so it is not like they get anything from it.
Still, region-specific CV in general feels like a much more painful topic on this site than private CV ratio. But group CV as well, so it is not something that is limited to cheap regions; before they were a thing, the small, almost insider-trader few-people groups were the targets. Strangely, I don't recall the last time they were mentioned though in this relation. Apart from the comment a little under this, I mean. ^__^
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giveaways over level 5 are rare, over level 7 are rarer than a blue moon.
Region-restriction typically works as well as a level 8 cut-off in terms of entry count, and that's for the highly represented North America. Region-restricted regions may find a bit more difficulty in what they can offer to the site, but they tend to receive similar site benefits in exchange, as region restricted giveaways will likely be common for them and with low entry counts.
While criticizing region-restricted users as a lot isn't agreeable (though I'm sure it doesn't help impressions that Russia/CIS specifically seems to tend toward having more comments bragging about CV exploitation than it does positive comments like Psycho's), I don't imagine it's unfair to expect a bit more ROW-contribution if the users in question are benefiting heavily off of those. For the smallest regions, where region restricted giveaways go back to being a minority, that's clearly not a concern- but for better represented regions, there's no clear 'we have an advantage/disadvantage compared to other site users', as far as giveaways go.
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CV exploitation through the Russian store is a complex question anyway. It is not a secret that Steam enacted cross-region trade locks because entire groups there were living by selling games to ROW people. Then this entire thing moved to G2A, and now non-Russian users also like to exploit that store to get some nice CV.
Still, exploiting it to get some decent level is one thing, but somehow I cannot imagine someone doing this past level 7 at worst. I mean, what would be the benefit? Especially if they cannot participate in region-locked giveaways in return.
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I don't recall ever seeing a EU-only giveaway. Never, ever.
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I asked it to be a region, but it was denied. This was when NA was added as a region (instead).
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Yeah, I don't see why we can't just have an Europe option and if it needs further specification the description says so (as it does now). Optionally with a "NO GERMANY" options for all the many games banned there.
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Just to chime in -- I am from Brazil myself. It just sucks that, everytime I want to give something from Steam to someone, I HAVE to do it region-restricted. I have no option on this! Actually, I do have one option, that would be not give it at all. So, what should I do in order no to be branded as "South American Region Exploiter"? Only buy bundled ROW stuff?
:(
What I am trying to say is, instead of looking at the % of region-locked CV, I would ask people to look at how much the person gave, or, if one really cares about region-restricted gifts, how much the person gave in non-region-locked gifts, in absolute values. Because one way for me to decrease that "% region-locked CV" would be NOT to give region-locked gifts, and that does not seem to be the right spirit for the site.
But anyway, it is pretty clear from your post that you do not care that much about CV anyway, so maybe I am "raining on already wet stuff", as we say in Brazil. :)
Just my 2 region-unlocked cents! :D :D
Cheers!
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We look at percentages because it is not really easy to attach a function when one creates an SGTools filter; the place where this question can practically come into play.
As for your question: bundle keys or buying from ROW key stores, which naturally means +20–40% in price. With cheaper regions, it is a bad situation: you either buy the games technically adjusted to your purchasing power (I say technically because in Russia and mainland China are special in this regard) but get high region-locked CV in return and 80%+ of the site never even seeing your giveaways; or give away less as you need to pay more to give something to the more general public.
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Exactly! I admit I got lots of CV that I would not if I were in another region, but, really, does it make sense to pay 30% more for 1 gift, when I can make 2 people happy for the same money? And these people, well, they are unknown to me -- it is not as if all people in my region were my personal friends or my clique or something (which is quite a big difference from small group GAs)...
I only disagree with one detail of what you said: instead of looking at percentages, people could look at absolute values. I mean, they could use rules like "real-sent-region-free > $xxx" or something, sorry, SGToolese is not my first language :) :) instead of ratios, where $xxx is whatever they feel right. This way, you do not discourage them to give region-restricted stuff, but you do encourage them to try to give region-free gifts when they can
(And, as you said, CV is not as useful as many people think.)
Just my 2 c... Wait, I spent $0.04 already! Where is my CV for that? ;)
Cheers!
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To be honest, neither "side" should care. It's the fact that battle lines were drawn years ago that this still pops up time after time. As I said below, its gotten to the point now that things that used to be a bit of a joke have now become serious insults towards peoples behaviours. The forums lost their positive sheen a long time ago, we're in a cycle of "what to hate on now".
A few months time, creating puzzles will be bad like they were for a time as they "exclude" people.
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Aren't puzzle-makers, who mostly create giveaways like that, already among the highest-ranking members in terms of being blacklisted?
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Most, if not all my blacklists stem from events and puzzles. Mainly from jealous people who can't enter for one reason or the other. One event led to a guy trying to negative rep me and posted a bunch of abuse on my profile.
Point is, people around here just love to hate...stuff...doesn't matter what it is. They cling to it, drain it and milk it, then move on to the next thing.
I barely ever see complaints or even mentions of SGTools now, going back further than that, no one complains about people who say "thx 4 skyrim", we've come 360 on giveaway replies now people HATE comments whereas NOT commenting was the old hate. People don't hate these things, they like complaining and getting people to pay attention to their opinion.
Stuff blows over pretty quickly nowadays and I think a lot of it is wearing pretty thin.
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(Well, to be honest, when I had a month of over 500 "thanks" giveaways, it was annoying. I never ask people to not do that, but I am grateful when they just enter silently or post some conversation-starter instead. The old site didn't have one million users and several thousand entry bots and even more users of the one-click-entry-and-comment methods that can result in massive spam.)
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True, I'm still old school, it used to be a community, we've definitely lost that. I'm actually surprised with all the cliques now that a breakaway site hasn't started.
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it used to be a community, we've definitely lost that
Happens everywhere after some popularity-breaking point. Unless you create an echo-chamber and ban everyone who is not echoing.....
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I got most of my blacklists from puzzles. Although to be fair, hiding them in flamebait discussion topics probably wasn't the most sensible idea...
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That and when people don't understand the puzzle and think you are trolling them(eg, using closed old gibs as part of the puzzle).
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using closed old gibs as part of the puzzle
Oh shit I'm doing exactly that right now >_<
Yeah I get most of my blacklists from puzzles and SGTools gibs too :3
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I got most of my blacklists to date from just a good old regular SGTools protected train.
shrug
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Making the wrong kind of giveaways will cause more upset than just not making giveaways. Logically speaking, anything anything other than silently leeching is just asking for trouble.
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That's true. On the other hand stepping out of the shadows of silent leeching can earn you some whitelist spots. And what's better? Getting blacklisted by some people never doing any GAs or some nice whitelist GAs?
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That is nice. If you are going to draw attention to yourself and hope for white lists then you generally also need a decent ratio. Which means you are already failing at leeching...
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I can't quite get your point. But I edited the thread to clear mine. Please, re-read it, if you please.
About region-locked giveaways, I always assume they're region-locked gifts, since it's not easy for everyone to convert their currency to dollar or euro in order to buy ROW gifts (that would require changing their Steam region as well, which could give them a ban) or ROW keys. That's something so simple to understand that I'm surprised some people can't.
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The point was to your original message. As you can see in the responses, it wasn't that clear. =)
Also, private giveaway means here that it is invite-only. I get now what you tried to say, but we still call them WL/small group giveaways or some similar longer thing for a reason, because it is easy to mix up their types with single-word descriptions.
Since your point is that the site likes to be elitist: well, yeah. And: well, duh. I am nearing 3 years here and even then the elitism was rampant. Heck, I'd say the site is VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY slowly improving on this.
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Maybe elitism/segregating will always be part of human nature, I suppose
That doesn't mean we should accept it as normal or not refraining ourselves from doing it, of course
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There's a huge difference between having a right to have an opinion and using that opinion to hurt anyone
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There's a huge difference between not being able to give away games, and simply choosing not to (while also attempting to win more games to idle).
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I suppose you're right, but you can't really know who is doing that. That's why I think judging is not the right approach
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To hurt = to insult = to express their opinion about other people's business when no one asked it = on this context, to make people feel inferior about something on SG just to enlarge their e-penis
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I'm not hurt. I'm just mocking people who like to mock other people. It is the very same. I like inverting situations and having fun when I see how judging people act when they are judged. It's hilarious because they don't like it either.
By the way, you said something which is related to what I said as a reply to other comment:
About giving games to people who will actually play them... well, sharing is sharing. If you give something, you can't expect to make rules about how someone will use that something. It's not yours anymore. You have to be aware of it when you decide to give something to someone. That's what I think.
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People that are accusing leechers of not offering anything to the steamgifts community, but they are only making group/whitelist/private giveaways with 5-10 entries each to offer games to their "friendlist community". xD
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86.1% (229/266) with playtime, 0.00% (0/160) with ≥1 achievement
I usually don't care about it how much a person have won but this is kind of depressing. I mean yeah you didn't like some of your wins but ..
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A script to see how many games a member have played. Also it shows average playtime etc. For example from the same member;
Average Playtime 2.3 hours per win, 2.7 hours per played win
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Yeah, but who did the first one? :P Anyway, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people are making giveaways for their "private steamgifts community".
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After seeing this i think they might have a right to make a private steamgifts community of their own and some person with 0 playtime on his/her every win doesn't have a right to complain about it imho. I guess that answers your first question too. Hope this is not really calling out.
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WOW. SOMEONE FINALLY GOT THE POINT OF THE THREAD
YOU DESERVE AN AWARD, REALLY. YOU'RE MUCH ABOVE AVERAGE (I'M BEING DAMN SERIOUS)
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There's always a new flavour of the month, a new evil, its tiresome. I can't keep up any more. The new one appears to be this, meh, within a month people won't like people who give away to level 6's or games with the word "The" in the title. Anything to complain about basically by a bunch of people who have nothing better to do. Its becoming slightly comical now tbh.
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Don't worry too much about it, I have blacklisted you already ages ago.
Most private are forum giveaways. Most region-restricted... well, you would know, eh? ;)
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I'm from Turkey and when I buy a game on steam to make a giveaway of it, it'd be a region restricted copy. So I have to do it as region restricted giveaway. I have a 2 option here and I'll let you decide which is better one. I can either buy a game from steam and make region restricted giveaway which I have to if I buy it on steam or I won't do any giveaway of that game. I try making public GAs whenever I have a region-free copy/key of a game. OP is also from a country using its own currency on steam which means products bought on steam will be region restricted for them. Also if you will blacklist me for doing bunch of region restricted giveaway, please go for it.
Edit: I have to add this in case you want to use it against me, I don't if the OP's products were region restricted or not and I don't really care. However, you should know that everything is not how it looks like all of the time.
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Your ratio and that of the OP are like water and fire though ;)
(Just to make sure, the OP is not blacklisted for region-restricted giveaways only, just check it. Also fairly sure I checked it after getting bored by +100 pointless topics, and then that ratio... yeah)
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Wow, a generic post just to tell me I'm blacklisted, as if I gave a fuck, lol (seriously, do you really think I'd be creating this thread and many other threads if I gave?)
Even so, I think you didn't get the point. Don't worry, I've edited to make it clearer for slow people like you
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Oh, I get the point... boohoo I have used region giveaways, make a thousand pointless topics and my ratio sucks (of which I play none at all!), why do people hate me so much?
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Wow, a generic post just to tell me I'm blacklisted
They just want to look like a better person than you. That's all. Honestly that's all this site is all about 'I have more GAs, therefore you suck'
Kind of those Apple elitists over Android.
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Private giveaways can be forum giveaways, events or stuff you shared as if youtube channels, group chats, etc. making private giveaways doesn't mean they are "secret" and for the chupipandi.
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There's nothing wrong about private giveaways. Maybe you didn't get the point and should re-read the thread
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What's the difference? They make puzzles or trains or event related givs while you just leech games away.
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You're always so angry about it that it makes you cute and funny
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People can give their games away however they want. Deal with it.
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Say!
I like giving games in all the ways I can!
I do! I like how they need no single plan!
Why, I would give them in a boat!
And I would give them with a goat.
And I will give them in the rain.
And in the dark. And on a train.
And in a car. And in a tree.
They are so fun to give, you see!
So I will give them in a box.
And I will give them with a fox.
And I will give them in a house.
And I will give them with a mouse.
And I will give them here and there.
Say! I will give them anywhere!
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That's what the thread is about, if you didn't realize
Just re-read it
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in both cases a game is gifted. ultimately no difference.
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Stopped giving a flying fuck about this ages ago.
People will always make excuses for how they give, and someone will always complain about it.
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Just correcting you: people will always try to find a way to feel superior to other people
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You stated your interpretation of what I said.
That's fine, but it has nothing to do with what I said.
Please, do us both a favor and cease trying to explain to me what I meant. ;)
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Everyone just wants to get a +1 to their vidya count. Not like anyone actually plays 'em, so there isn't a difference.
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I am one who does care about ratio but its more because of the groups I've been in. I much prefer giving to my "private" groups because well... Look at the stats... Taken from the first page of my giveaways.
"Private and exclusive"
64.8% (339/523) with playtime, 7.76% (26/335) with ≥1 achievement
61.1% (179/293) with playtime, 11.4% (23/202) with ≥1 achievement
60.0% (9/15) with playtime, 80.0% (8/10) with ≥1 achievement
2.08% (14/672) with playtime, 3.00% (11/367) with ≥1 achievement
61.5% (177/288) with playtime, 18.3% (34/186) with ≥1 achievement
15.3% (15/98) with playtime, 14.1% (11/78) with ≥1 achievement
20.0% (11/55) with playtime, 16.2% (6/37) with ≥1 achievement
49.8% (849/1705) with playtime, N/A (0/0) with ≥1 achievement
56.1% (522/931) with playtime, 8.72% (51/585) with ≥1 achievement
69.4% (520/749) with playtime, 11.5% (49/427) with ≥1 achievement
Average = 17.1% of wins played
3 have played their wins from me. Two finished it and told me they enjoyed it. One I know is playing through the previous games to play the new one he won from me. All expressed their thanks for the gift.
Public
0.00% (0/45) with playtime, 0.00% (0/29) with ≥1 achievement
25.9% (7/27) with playtime, 33.3% (5/15) with ≥1 achievement
64.1% (41/64) with playtime, 6.67% (2/30) with ≥1 achievement
68.5% (61/89) with playtime, 0.00% (0/50) with ≥1 achievement
23.5% (39/166) with playtime, 1.19% (1/84) with ≥1 achievement
72.7% (8/11) with playtime, 0.00% (0/6) with ≥1 achievement
59.3% (35/59) with playtime, 23.5% (8/34) with ≥1 achievement
56.5% (26/46) with playtime, 6.45% (2/31) with ≥1 achievement
Average = 8.9% of wins played
0 of the winners played the games they won from me. A few I blacklisted because they didn't even say thank you.
My conclusion from this is... I'm going to stay happier with giving to private community. Not only is the average on wins played higher but they show their thanks outwith the minute of winning the giveaway. You might say "oh but its not like there is much difference in stats" to me there is a massive difference. Recently people are focusing on people actually playing their wins and this just shows that hand picking their entries will be satisfying to the giver and the winner. I'm definitely not one who plays a lot of their wins but when I do I always take screenshots or comment on the giveaway a second time to tell them how much I enjoyed it.
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That's very interesting. Are you using a script that shows you this data on your gifts sent page? I know about Do you even play bro? but I have to scan every person's won page individually and ain't nobody got time fo' dat. I'm curious about how many of the games I've given away have been played.
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Yes, it's a script.
Look at the comments above, there's a few mentions of it.
It's in a group recruitment thread, can't remember the name of it.
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49.8% (849/1705) with playtime, N/A (0/0) with ≥1 achievement
I'm surprised about this one... does that mean none of their 1000+ wins have achievements or is there something wrong with how the script is run o_O
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It checks for a certain time. 1700 game is much and SadisticKitten probably didn't wait it to load.
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There's nothing wrong about private giveaways. I suppose you didn't get the point. Maybe you should re-read the thread
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I've taken abuse for in the past for mostly making private giveaways - although they were mostly trains and puzzles that I posted in the forums with very low entry requirements. That obviously doesn't apply to everybody that makes mostly private giveaways but I'd say from experience you really can't judge somebody on that alone.
And just because somebody has a terrible ratio it doesn't make them a terrible person - there have been plenty of users who haven't given a lot but have been kind, helpful, funny, etc in discussions.
But overall I think it is fair to say that while people from the first group may or not be a benefit to the community it can often be demonstrable fact that people from the second group simply aren't. Certain criticism may simply be factually accurate rather than laughable.
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That's what thread is about. Judging people and e-penis. Can't we just share what we want, when we can? Lol
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Well, you asked a question and I was giving an answer. You have to take things on a case by case by basis - but there are some very generous users who just like to make trains and puzzles and events in discussions and they may seriously be of more benefit to the community that people who offer nothing more than terrible ratios. It may be elitist for someone to bang on about it, but the concept isn't fundamentally wrong or necessarily laughable.
You've since edited your target to group and whitelist giveaways rather than private giveaways - but the same points broadly apply and again you still have to take things on a case by case basis. Some groups may be elitist circle-jerks or ways to game the system - but plenty of groups are made for puzzles and community events or to give unlucky users a chance to win some games. The same as whitelist giveaways or region restricted giveaways they aren't necessarily a good or bad thing - it is just how people use them.
People should just be able to share what they want when they want. Nobody should be forced to make giveaways they can't afford. But that only tells half the story of a shitty ratio. Just because somebody can't make many giveaways there isn't anything forcing them to auto-enter every available giveaway and hoard hundreds of games they won't ever play just for +1s to an e-peen and a different way to feel superior.
You talk about 'judging people' who 'can't share as much' which is fair enough - but I don't think that is what getting people generally get criticised for. There are plenty of people here who can't share much but don't have awful ratios because they only enter giveaways for games they will play.
But on the other hand there are people here who have only given a single piece of cheap DLC and have won hundreds of games while owning 4,000+ games on Steam including all the latest AAA titles and boasting about their expensive gaming rig on their profile. Are bad ratios and people who 'can't share as much' really the same thing?
Everybody should have the right to come here and try their luck as long as they obey the rules - but should they necessarily be immune to criticism if they are acting like a fucktart? Should people really not be entitled an opinion because they like to give their games to a group for people who haven't won their first game yet?
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I've edited the thread because someone said private giveaways are necessarily those ones from puzzles, cakes, i.e., invites. I didn't know it, so I had to change it to address the right point I wanted to talk about.
About giving games to people who will actually play them... well, sharing is sharing. If you give something, you can't expect to make rules about how someone will use that something. It's not yours anymore. You have to be aware of it when you decide to give something to someone. That's what I think.
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And one of the things I was saying is that many of the same points can apply to group and whitelist giveaways as private giveaways. I don't think you know what point you wanted to talk about. It looks as if you just wanted to make a bunch of assumptions and have a rant - it doesn't look any better than the kind of people you were probably trying to criticise.
I'd agree people shouldn't give something and then be unhappy about how it is used after the fact - but that doesn't change anything to do with what I was saying about bad ratios and not being able to give much not being the same thing. You say people should be aware of it when they give something to someone - and people are increasingly aware of it and that is why you are seeing so many 'restricted' giveaways now because certain people who are taking the piss are ruining it for everybody and people are finding that actually they can make rules before the fact.
There is all kinds of bullshit that goes on around here - my own least favourite is when people who share the least decide it's important to remind everybody else that this is a 'sharing' site and start telling everybody else what the 'right' way to share is. It's just a place for people to try and win games and a tool for making giveaways according to various criteria. People can easily spend their 300 points on entering giveaways whether they are a 'good' or a 'bad' user. If people don't want to give games to people with bad ratios or to people who won't play them it is up to them how they want to run their giveaways. Does there really have to be so much moaning about what other people are doing? Do we really now need topics moaning about whether other people are entitled to moan about what other people are doing? For fucks sake...
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But the thread is exactly about being so moaning about what other people are doing.
As I said at the very beginning: there's no right way to share. That's why when people start to criticize someone's contribution as if they were part of some kind of generous elite, they should look at themselves.
And I'm not intending to be better than anyone (see my ratio). I've just found out an ironical fact and wanted to make fun of it.
By the way, as much as someone has the right to choose how to run their giveaways, people have the right to react to a toxic frequent behaviour. And this one contains a real fact about some toxic people. I like pointing toxic people who like pointing their dirty fingers to other people. It's a fun way to see their excuses, their reactions, their sense of self-importance and to invert the situation, since there are so many judging people here who are annoyed about being judged.
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You actually didn't say at the beginning 'there's no right way to share'. You just made that up. What you have done is criticise how other people are sharing and tell me what your idea of sharing is and what others can and can't expect when they share.
And you didn't find any 'ironical fact' at all. You just decided to stereotype and start attacking a group of people on the basis of a bunch of false assumptions about private giveaways. And then changed it to group and whitelist giveaways when you don't really seem to understand those much better.
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I've seen a lot of people here complaining about other people's ratio or their giveaways consisting basically on region-restricted giveaways
However, I realized that a lot (really a lot) of those people who complain about that just make restricted giveaways.
Do you see the word "all the people" instead of "a lot of people" here? Sorry, but if you see, I don't. Maybe someone else can see it. Some invisible words are being seen here. That's what I call a false assumption.
By the way, when I started to answer those who had misunderstood the thread and thought I was classifying giveaways as right or wrong, I did say there's nothing wrong about private/restricted giveaways and that the point was the complaining people.
Even if I haven't said that in my very first answers, note I may have not said on my thread that there is no wrong way to give games away, but I also didn't say there is a wrong way. Again, false assumptions, great Sherlock.
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What point are you trying to make with that quote?
Are you trying to say that is you saying 'there's no right way to share' right at the beginning? Because that isn't there. Or are you're trying to say that's your 'ironic fact'? It's neither ironic or technically a fact - that is just two different things that you claim you have seen.
Yes, there are elitist pricks with good ratios who should stop moaning about other people. But they may or may not make 'restricted' giveaways, and people who make 'restricted' giveaways may or may not be elitist or just making fun events for the community.
And yes there are people who use groups and restricted giveaways to game and leech the system and aren't in any position to criticise anyone else - but those aren't who you are talking about as the name of the topic specifies high ratio people making restricted giveways - and that isn't those guys.
If the irony is supposed to be that its laughable that users might have an opinion regarding bad ratios because they can't be any better regardless of ratio because of 'restricted' giveaways then the connection just isn't there. As you have now yourself decided, if different types of giveaways aren't 'right' or 'wrong' then that only leaves ratio to judge people by - and clearly people can have a 'better' ratio.
There are a bunch of people who could stand to stop moaning about region restricted giveaways. But that's a discussion that is probably best not confused by bringing ratio into it.
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You just decided to stereotype and start attacking a group of people on the basis of a bunch of false assumptions about private giveaways
I thought the point of the quotes was clear enough. Let me draw: there are no generalizations, so it's not stereotyping
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It's as clear as mud. In the context of your edits and all the stuff you have changed your mind about there are at least two ways of looking at the quote.
Either you are generalising 'restricted' giveaways as objectively bad and stereotyping the people making them. Which would make it the 'ironic fact' that you feel this discussion is based on (that people are criticising other people for being 'bad' while doing 'bad' things themselves). That would at least make sense but contradict much of what you said later.
Or that as you are now claiming there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to make giveaways. Which would mean the quote was simply two random unconnected things that you have seen happening and doesn't explain why you thought it was laughable that people doing the latter were criticising the former. And also that I'm still waiting to hear what the 'ironic fact' is that is apparently the reason for this topic.
Alternatively you could have meant that some but not all of the people making restricting giveaways were being hypocrites - but your initial post didn't bother to specify that some people could make restricted giveaways and still be a benefit to the community. And that would also mean that you have to be judging restricted giveaways as good or bad which would contradict what you said most recently about their not being a 'wrong' way to give a game away.
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I don't see any problem with people doing region restricted giveaways? Even if all their giveaways are like that, so what? It's there choice to giveaway what they want to whoever they want.
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These topics about SG's equivalent to dick-measuring contests always end up entertaining :].
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I only create private giveaways for the forum because that's the people I care about, not people (and bots) who just auto-enter everything on the front page and were never active in this community. I also don't give a single shit about whether or not that displeases some people, because it pleases me, and I'm a greedy person.
Also I don't care about CV much so I got that going for me which is cool.
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There's nothing wrong about any kind of giveaways. I had to edit the thread to make it even clearer (if it was possible)
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I didn't assume what you thought, I thought it was clear enough you were asking a simple question, not judging anyone. Not sure why everyone's getting pissy about that. :P
I was talking about people who judge you for creating certain giveaways (it's rare, but I've had people attack me for only creating private giveaways).
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Private =/= Inaccessible
That said, you do have to actually create giveaways for them to be accessible to anyone.
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Is a person not entitled to the sweat of his Gib?
'No!' says the Publicer, 'It belongs to the level 1'
'No!' says the achievemtentalist (sp?), 'It belongs to those who get 99% achievements.'
'No!' says the SGTooler, 'It belongs to those with 5:1 ratio No VAC ROW only.'
I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... SGtopia, a city where the gibber would not fear the blacklist, where the puzzler would not be bound by petty CV, Where the groovy would not be constrained by the dull! And with the sweat of your gibs, SGtopia can become your city as well.
'#Make SG Groovy Again' 😺✌
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MAKE GIVEAWAYS GREAT AGAIN
LOL. I'm one who doesn't fear blacklists (you can realize by seeing my threads)
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Fucking great game. Can't wait to finish the second and the third ones :D
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In what country is there a place for people like me?
IS IT SOMEONE NEW??
THE CV!! I NEED THE CV, LITTLE SISTER! I DON'T WANT TO HURT YOU!! GIVE ME THE CV!
YOU DON'T BELONG HERE. BEGONE, PARASITE! RYAN, FONTAINE, SHANTI, YOU'RE ALL GOING ON MY BLACKLIST!!!
My daddy has more powers than cg, has made more GA's than a dev key hoarder and generates CV with a snap of his fingers! Are you as good as my daddy, Mister? Not if you don't visit the Gatherer's Garden, you aren't! Smart daddies farm at the Garden!
THOSE GAMES AREN'T GETTING BUNDLED UNTIL I SAY SO! IT'S MY CV!! IF YOU WANT IT, COME AND GET IT!
Welcome to SGTopia! Now would you kindly read the FAQ and hand over the CV?
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That was too good :O Quadruple whitelisted ^(💙ᴥ💙)^
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