You can click that you live outside of EU or you can use vpn
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I know, i just ask becuase i want to know if i am only one who doesnt pay taxes:D
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Ich wollte nur wissen, ob ich der einzige bin der das nicht macht:D
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It is not always about trust sometimes it is about the principal of things.How sellers get there keys and so forth and i am not talking just about fraud.I am talking re-selling of bundle keys ect.I also want a cut of the money i actually spend on a game to go to the publisher and when you use those sites none of "my money" goes to them.
That G2A Shield is a ripoff they must think they are the online version of the Mafia and shaking you down for protection.I will never shop at a site that you need to pay extra to guarantee a working product.That site is noting more then a glorified flea market.How about they take more steps to monitor there sellers and hold them accountable nope it is easier to scam your users out of money with G2A.
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Thats right, but they oftenly get money but not that much, with games like FC: Primal.
i oftenly buy games from little publishers from the steam store too:)
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Well i just want to be clear while i do not approve of using the site nor would i suggest anyone doing so i would not go on a witch hunt to stop people or any of one from using the site everyone has the right to shop where they want but i will let them know what i think.Also that site and a few others is also one of the reason why we get more and more tier keys from the likes of Humble,yet they are the same ones who bitch about it kind of ironic when they are part of the problem but yet bitch about it.
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i would not be concerned about most publishers, ea or ubi and activision pay their developing studios a flat fee.
most developers don't hold the IPs so they get no royalties either.
the publishers finance the development do the marketing and are responsible for the distribution.
they take the biggest chunk of the money
i'm only concerned about small self publishing developers.
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Also i did say the Publisher and i do know how that all works so now it is my turn to share a little deeper on that..
I do understand how the cuts work and who gets what and that the developers already have been paid.The cut they get from me to the Publisher though still does matter even if it does not directly give the Developer without the publisher getting a cut from game sales they are less likely to give more work to the developer and even close the studio.So while they may not get a direct cut of of what the Publisher gets i am still supporting them by letting the publisher know i liked what they did and keep them making games.
The way you make it seem that if the Publisher misses out on cuts because of sites like G2A that it has little impact on the developer since they have been paid when it could have huge impacts on them getting more games to do or even having a job as sales of games they make is how they stay making games.
Your money can go where it wants to but to act like the big guys will not miss out on some cuts you are right over all one bad game by one studio may not put a dent into there profit,but do it to support the studio that made the game by letting them know i liked the game they did let them make more.See how that works?
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you should not care about the publishers, they make enough money.
the developers are the ones you should be concerned about .
what they get amounts to 10%-20% of the wholesale price.maybe
big publishers make billions nowadays.
without much risk or effort.
and they tend to push development to more mass appeal and shorter development times.
which gives us games like mass effect 3 ,simcity, the last two assassin's creed's and CoD's
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I do care about the developers hence why i buy there games do you think most just buy a game by publisher alone?It not as simple as you put it,there are other things that drive the need to make money,like stock holders,the pressure to produce money.
Why do you think Take 2 put shark cards in GTA V even a company that makes huge money off such games felt the pressure to add them to get a more steady cash flow as stock holders and investors want to see a return on there investment every quarter not just whenever they release a big game is when they take in the most money and survive off that for years.
In the end the developer in most cases is paid regardless of how well the games does so while publishers make billions if you look at it most make those off one or two big franchises like Take 2 and there publisher R* if it was not got GTA they would have not taken risk on Red Dead Redemption and Bully they admitted that Read Dead Redemption was lacking because they did not invest as much time and money as they would have liked because they projected sales to not be high enough for a big budget.
It all a risk,also all you see are gross not what is taken out after the fact...sites just publish gross earnings not usually profits after cost have been taking out,GTA V may have grossed over a billion but it also had a budget that was around 250 million by the time you take out the cost of making the game and paying other bills just off what the game alone cost to make is 1/4 of what they grossed.
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thats right, but as a student you dont have much money
but seriously, who pays 60€ for a Game?
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Some do,though not having much money should never be an excuse/reason for most as i find it usually boils down to just being cheap regardless if you have the money to buy at full price or without much discount...as you said it yourself..
but seriously, who pays 60€ for a Game?
So regardless if your money situation i highly doubt you would still pay that even if you had more money.
I do not like paying full price for games myself but that just because i am cheap though there are times i can not afford a game but even when i can i am cheap thanks to big sales and bundles it has turned me into a cheap gamer.This may be why Steam sales discounts for big sales of late have not been discounted as high they may be catching on that with all these sales they created a bunch of cheap gamers who will not buy a product unless at a good discount.
Though in the end being cheap and how people spend there money is fine but i do not think people think of the long term impact of buying game at huge discounts and why so many pc gamers get the shaft because while games may sell millions at times a lot times that after they have been hugely discounted and so forth so yeah PC sales are not even near what console sales are even if they sell the same amount of games over time.Look how fast games get a discount for PC,
So in the end us being cheap has giving us more bad ports let me be clear it not the only reason but it is still a big part of it.I mean why would they invest million into a good port if they figure the sales they make is not worth the money or effort they will just release a half baked game and if it sells well they will fix it later if not they will just abandon ship.
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But i want to play a game now, i cant wait 4months for the next sale
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the pc games market is not much smaller than the console market.
as a matter of fact ,PSN and Xbox Live are pushing digital distribution because of their losses through hard copy resale.
you can't resell a steam or PSN and Xbox live game.
your thought about publishers getting bankrupt is funny.
ubi for example is a holding with many sub companies like publisher spread across the world ,this enables them to perform very efficient tax evasion and maximises the amount of government grants they can cash in around the world.
region locking salles politics are also just to maximise profits not to create a fair playing field.
they sell games in countrys like brazil or russia for half the price because if they would not, people would just pirate their games.
and they still make a buttload of profits even if the price is only half .
noone in their clear mind should think of giant faceless corporations as the poor beaten victim of these bad consumers who just want to get a cheap deal. don't forget they probably steal your taxes.
the word "licensed"seller that people throw around just means that they get the keys directly from the distributor.
in the end every working steam key is "licensed " but the problem with unlicensed sellers like G2A is that you can't say were the key comes from. it could be a "licensed"key obtained through credit card fraud or similar illegal means.
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When did i mention about anyone going bankrupt??Maybe it is time to fix that tin foil hat.It time to realize not everyone is out to get you or screw you over.
Anyhow this thread was about the pricing of games and using grey market sites and you seem to turn it into spreading your propaganda of how evil you think they are and say they invade taxes,commit fraud and region locking is some conspiracy to max profits which actually is the name of the game.So unless you want to have a business to make the least you can your in it to max profits,aka make as much as you can.
The region locks where simply to keep people like me from the U.S. to buy games dirt cheap from say Russia or Brazil if they where about max profits all the time they would have had used region locks from the go.
I never said that every steam key was not license of course it is in some shape,way or form.That was not the issue the issue is if i buy a fucking game from G2A the publisher does not see a dime of my money and the whole reason i buy a game is so they get a cut.Well minus humble bundles i use that to give to charity.
I want to see more games by a developer i must also support the publisher it just how it works,unless the developer is self publishes but those are rare.So in the end how can i not give my money to a publisher and still expect a developer i like to have a chance to make more games or have a chance if i do not give money to the publisher since they are usually the ones who pay the developer.
There are times i would like to tell the publisher to fuck off and i do but it still does not solve the issue of supporting a developer by ignoring the publisher when they are the ones they pay the developers.One can not exist without the others.
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I see there is no point in arguing with you ,your capitalist views are hardwired and cannot be broken as it seems.
there is absolutely no need for big publishers doing what they do.
good examples are paradox, doublefine ,bethesda and countless others.
your opinion of the pc market hurting the gaming industry is just not true.
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I'm not shooting myself in the foot with a 27% tax on top of the game price + hidden fees, no thank you.
My government will be imposing tax on internet access, that's more than enough as it is. I'm not sponsoring the corrupt politicians private real estates.
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It's a little different here. State income is constantly increasing, along with the taxes, yet they have 5-25% budget cuts each year on healthcare, education, social welfare. But somehow there is money to build a couple new stadiums (one at the backyard of the Prime Minister… and I mean literally, this is his house with the stadium)…
So, let's just say that the inclination in the people to pay any kind of tax is dropping a lot in the past years.
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If you're not happy with your government, use your right to vote, become politically active, take part in the democratic process. Evading taxes is just another kind of cynicism: "They're scums, so shall I be."
Take the moral high ground and don't forfeit your place in society.
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I did at start, then my friend was are you mad, and then i stopped :D
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You can easily bypass them: If you add G2A Coins, you dont have to pay paypal fees
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Tons of people do that.
Me included and nothing happened:D
And i really dont think hat G2A is shady, i hear news about them and they spend money to child's aid
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They spend twenty times more on self-promotion. Plus when you don't really pay taxes, you can be generous. The extreme of this analogy is that drug barons are revered as saints near their homes, since they use a little fraction of their money to create good living conditions to the people living around them.
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Its safe, and if you want to go sure you can buy with G2A shield, then you get the money back if the key does not work:)
You can save very much money with G2A:)
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It isn't about them being honest or dishonest, they just offer you an insurance. Sure, they might offer that service as a standard, but that would logically increase prices for all their products. But as we are all aware, customers tend to demand the best possible prices, thus it makes sense to sell the insurance as an extra . And there is nothing wrong about offering customers a choice.
I don't use G2A either, because their sources are indeed questionable. And I'd pay my taxes.
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Well they are only the platform, not the seller. Amazon or ebay aren't responsible to grant you a safety net either, when a third party should cheat you. Of course they still might (or actually) do so, but that's not because they might be legally required to do so, but because they (might) consider it a good business decision.
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This insurance is mandatory for all online retailers. You don't see eBay ask you for more money for fraud protection, because it can't.
Also, Shield in reality is useless. Try to open three reclaim ticket on G2A. You can have Shield for a year, they will start ignoring you completely.
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Dude...
Its just an 'extra' insurance.
You will get your money back even without the shield.
G2A shield is just a way to make money with the fear of people.
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In my experience, the G2A Shield is a bit of a con. I've bought without it and still gotten a refund. They just get on it much quicker and more aggressively if you buy the shield. They are a little shady in that regard. As for the resellers, they have a feedback system and buyer protection for that reason. Also, I've sold a number of times on G2A, with 100% legit keys.
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Its safe, and if you want to go sure you can buy with G2A shield, then you get the money back if the key does not work:)
You can save very much money with G2A:)
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No, it's not.
Even if it was, Insurance doesn't make sense for products (cd-key) that can't break. Well cd-keys can be revoked if they're stolen, so effectively it would be guarantee of "if we sold you stolen product, we give you new".
Besides it seems people can't get replacement even when they paid for it, so it's scam too.
and you can always use Paypal Dispute if that's how you paid. No need to pay for g2a shield. Although they probably will ban your paypal account from using the site. Wouldn't be big loss tho.
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I never used G2A shield, and will never do it.
I bought very much games from them and every key worked.
And i really dont think that so much games from them are stolen.
The worst thing that can happen if you buy from them is that your key gets revoked.
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@ madjoki because of the price.You dont have much money as a student
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G2A never, EVER had the best price on anything. Everything you see there was accessible for cheaper sometime somewhere. If you would really want to be cheap, you'd use isthereanydeal to monitor the games you want to get or look at the newly-made bundles and use the Group Buys Steam group to purchase only those games you are interested in from a bundle.
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What if you video record ur paypal or paysafecard etc's ballance and the purchase and activations?:) that way you have proof :)
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You don't get it, huh?
If G2A really would be a safe store to buy stuff at, then why the fuck would I even need a "insurance" in order to be 100% "safe" in case something goes wrong?
They basically let you think that you could lose your game/key by not buying the extra insurence, which, if you ask me, is another evidence that they have something fishy going on behind closed curtains.
Where as licensed game stores will either instantly charge back your money or give you another key to replace the revoked one - without even asking.
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Its a risk, but as a student you dont have much money.
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Maybe some of their games are illegal, but as i said, MOST of the games on their store are bought from bundles, Steam store and retail. Maybe 0.01% are bought with credit card frauds
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In Germany (which is where you live), it's illegal to sell license keys that were seperated from retail boxes (-> most of them are then scanned and stored digitally to keep it easier to work with). And that is exactly what stores like G2A sell.
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I know, but nobody will care. There are so much germans buying on G2A. They cant bust 100k people.
btw its only illegal if you buy retail games, if you buy keys which never had a box, its still legal
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I dont but the most games ARE from bundles or something else. Only AAA games from G2A are retail.
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Edited to 90%. Wasn't meant to be 99%.
And do you have a proof for "maybe 5-10%"? I don't think so.
I'm the admin of a group that has pertnered up with GamesPlanet - a fully licensed game store - and therefore have the information that at least 90% of the games in the catalogue of a unlicensed store are scanned retail keys.
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They cant bust 100k people.
They can, they just chose to not care about it as they have bigger fish to fry. Law firms shake down a lot of people each year in Germany, and they usually win. In this case they don't have a specific client, so this is why you are safe yet.
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Bad excuse. If you really don't have much money, then you wouldn't even bother to buy the insurance crap anyway. Beside that, G2A isn't even cheap compared to other unlicensed/unauthorized stores. So if money really is a factor, there are cheaper alternatives to pick from.
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If you want cheaper prices, you have to go to the real grey market.
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Trust me, if you ever traded a key(which you probably did) atleast one of them was bought from G2A:)
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I found out that many famous people are using the G2A Goldmine.
G2A Goldmine
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i am not young, i am not naive. I just want to say that it cant be that bad when so much people buy on there.
And why is that a Grey market? Just because the prices are so cheap? And 0.001% of the games are bought with stolen credit cards?
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See, that's the problem you just don't seem to understand. You think that if someone big does something at least half-illegal (hence grey market), it legitimatizes the store and everything else surrounding that store. But that's not how the world works. That's just straight up naive.
It's a gray market because G2A didn't get their keys officially from the developers/publishers. They buy them from companies that accuire tons of retail boxes in "cheap countries", scan the keys and sell the key batches wholesale to stores like G2A. That's the grey market part of the whole thing, because, as already mentioned, it is (at least in some countries) illegal to seperate retail box product keys from the storage medium they were supposed to be sold with.
Again, I know how this works because I'm in close contact to an officially licensed store and they gave me some background info on that.
Beside that, G2A is a Polish company, but their head quarters are located in Hong Kong. Now guess why that is... Hm?
Because they don't want to pay taxes. But why don't they want to pay taxes? Because they're dubious as fuck.
The whole "choose to pay taxes" thing is - again - illegal, as every company has to pay taxes to the country the buyer is living in. So if you live in Germany, G2A has to pay taxes to Germany, if you live in the UK, G2A has to pay taxes to the UK etc...
This isn't an optional thing, though, it's a law. Does G2A care about this? No, they make it optional - but it's not suppose to be optional as it is not up to the customer to decide. That's an law within the EU.
And again, the prices are NOT cheap at G2A. There are tons of cheaper stores (all of them are unlicensed though).
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Does Apple pay taxes? Its not an Grey market just becuase some people buy legally some Games officially and sell them without an box, its illegal in Germany, but in other countries?
And if you want cheaper prices, then you have to go to the real gray market, where 50% of the games are stolen.
btw i saw that you are an admin of For Uncut!, are you German?
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http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/apples-steuertricks-duerften-deutschen-fiskus-millionen-kosten-a-902370.html
Apple soll Steuern zahlen?
Natürlich hat G2A Ihren Sitz in Hongkong um die gewinne zu maximieren. ist doch nix neues, genauso wie Apple, IKEA und Co. solche Steuertricks benutzen.
Apple does not pay taxes (or a very little amount), just like houndreds of other companies, they all do that because they want to make more money. It's logical.
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Hast Du dir den Beitrag auch nur im Entferntesten durchgelesen? Schon im allerersten Satz steht, dass Apple vollkommen legal agiert - G2A hingegen tut das nicht und hat es auch nie! Steuertricks kann jeder (auch Du und ich) anwenden, und solange sie gegen keine Gesetze verstoßen, ist dagegen nichts einzuwenden. Wenn dem nicht so wäre, würde man das vom Finanzamt zu spüren bekommen - und zwar heftig! Auf Steuerbetrug steht Knast.
Dass Firmen wie Apple, Google und Co. ihr Barvermögen (das ist jetzt wieder etwas anderes als das, was Du verlinkt hast) in Steueroasen bunkern, um dieses Vermögen nicht immer und immer wieder in ihren Heimatländern versteuern zu müssen, ist schon wieder haarscharf an der Grenze zur Illegalität und wird von den zuständigen Behörden entsprechend "bekämpft".
Nur vergleichst Du wieder (wortwörtlich) Äpfel mit Birnen. Aus diesem Grund bin ich hier raus - Du verstest ja eh nicht, was man Dir erklären will. Viel Spaß noch beim (wissentlichen und somit vorsätzlichen) Gesetzesbruch.
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Ich habe nie gesagt, dass ich das, was Apple und Co. da abziehen, gut finde oder befürworte. Ich sage nur, dass sie - zumindest aktuell - gegen keine Gesetze versoßen. Es ist nur eine Frage der Zeit, bis diese Schlupflöcher geschlossen werden, und bis dahin ist es zwar ohne Zweifel fragwürdig und eine Frechheit, aber eben nicht eindeutig illegal, da sie sich immer noch im Rahmen der Gesetze bewegen.
Aber wie gesagt, ich bin hier raus... Bringt eh nix.
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Die EU (insbesondere Deutschland) kriegt sowieso genug Steuern, warum noch mehr?
Schönen tag noch, hiermit bin ich auch raus.
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Apple optimises taxes, meaning they pay as little as possible, but they still pay some. G2A has no track record at any country to ever pay taxes. Dunno, maybe somebody should ask the Polish Tax Office once if their European branch pays all the VAT they are supposed to or not.
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g2a basically uses the fact that the buyer pays the vat to the seller and the seller pays the vat to the country the buyer lives in .
if the buyer lies about where he comes from g2a is not responsible for the tax evasion.(or at least the EU and US have not much power to pursue this in hong kong.)
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You are naive. G2A sponsors a lot of profilic streamers. They have the money for it. Did you know that their profit margin is close to Apple's? As in, if you buy a key at their store for €1.00, the seller sees about €0.15 of it and that other 85% goes to them? They have money to burn to advertise themselves, and they did. Spam bots on Twitch (to the point where all moderation bots had to be equipped with auto-filters because at the worst times, there could be up to TWO THOUSAND G2A spambots at any given channel), partnerships with the gold mine contract, even funding some smaller online tournaments.
Then all of these slowly started to stop. Even pewdiepie isn't promoting them any more, and he constantly had a large G2A banner up for a time. And during that time the largest pro-G2A argument was that "pewdiepie is partnered with them, they must be legit".
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You really dont know about it, man...
The fees are 40cent and not 85 for 1€.
And i really dont care about the youtubers/streamers and i dont buy on G2A because of them!
I found out two days ago that they are supporting G2A, and i posted it on this thread to show how big G2A is.
But yes, it would be better if i wouldnt do that.
btw i probably dont respond on your next message, because otherwise this wont find an end.
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Posting the first 15, and cashout still costs you money, regardless of number of sales. Plus you have to sell them within the time they remain listed before you have to pay another 15 cents/10 games to remain in the store. This is one of the prime reasons you can see that it's only a few groups under single accounts getting the majority of the money, and fewer and fewer new sellers entering.
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Yeah and the stupid thing is they don't even understand the international vat rules. I've tried to explain to them that they make major mistakes with this what results in double taxes. Asked them to contact their accountant as by wanting to do it right to badly they are doing it wrong. This was months ago and the still have not made any changes and did not come back to me. So no g2a for me anymore.
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What I don't understand with this kind of fraud is why people bother paying anything. If you can't afford the game, you either don't play it or you steal it (or pirate, or whatever, it's just semantics). But I don't see the point of giving money to a shady handler whose sole merit is to know how to abuse the system and who doesn't add any value.
I'm sure not a fan of EA or Ubisoft, but I still prefer giving my money to this kind of company than to parasites that buy keys in Soviet Russia to resell in the Free World.
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I still prefer paying somewhat more and be 100% sure that they key is working - licensed distributor site. The single fact that you, as a consumer have to pay extra to have a safety net (G2A shield) in case of the good are unusable is against the EU law, yet they still get away with it.
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Did you create this disscusion to encourage people to buy from g2a or just to ask them a simple question ? To clarify one thing ,if no one clarityed it already , a percentage of resellers uses stolen credit cards (or they will ask humble for a refund) to buy humble bundle keys which later will be revoked and the game will get removed from your steam library , it's already risky trading here with someone selling keys from bundle due to revoke risk and it's more dangerous to buy a key from someone you don't know. G2A shield shouldn't even exist because this kind of site should fix these problems without asking for money in return.In any case this site is like russian roulette , if you don't get scammed today you eventual will. My advice us if you will continue to buy from g2a is to avoid buying humble bundle keys or any kind of bundled game , but overall you should avoid g2a at all and wait for your wanted games to get discounted on steam , trading with people from steamgifts or even waiting for those games to get bundled.
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None of my keys gots revoked:)
EDIT: i will close this discussion soon, my question has been answered.
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No. They don't pay taxes, so why should I give them more money? The taxes, the shield, and the PayPal fees are actually just all rip-offs. Real taxation is automatic based on your payment location information, PayPal fees always are charged to the site and they build it in the normal prices, and the shield is a mandatory, law-enforced feature they cannot charge money for. So if you buy from them, make sure to avoid most of their scams as possible and pay only for the key. Even if you have the shield, they give you back the money 2-3 times maybe before support stops responding to your claims.
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Same i think:)
They are making more with fear of people
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im sure they pay taxes in hong kong. the shield is a trick they use to earn money but they also charge fees from sellers and selling users.
as for the they only giving you the money back once or twice thing. they are theoretically bound by their TaC and by hong kong law but i don't think anyone buying there is financially capable to fight a lawsuit in hong kong.
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I do not pay VAT, but still prices in G2A 30% more expensive than other stores in my region. I do not understand why everyone says that there is a cheap prices. Even here on trades sections u can find better deal than any on G2A.
For example: METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN RU/CIS
G2A minimum price $9.80
steammoney $6
....
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never heard of steammoney, and G2A is a big site, but there are still pretty cheap deals on G2A
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Is steammoney region locked or does it say if its region lock?
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its community market, ppl sell what they want, but there no fees from site ( only some premium if ur want donate for devs) and devs dont pay for advertising ( so u dont heare abot it)
Most of seller from RU region so gifts locked but not all
I think in each region exist analogue
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I mean taxes not fees, but thanks for you answer:D
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