is ot ok to rip of a game, changing its graphics and selling it on your own?
McMagic Productions [developer] 20 Feb @ 12:45pm
It looks like a game series I Recognize
Yes, it's true.
Everything is absolutely legal and does not violate any law. This is a spin-off or evolution of a genius concept.
As we write on the main page:
The Wild Age is inspired by the "Kingdom" game series, and we do not intend to keep this a secret. At first glance, it may be a mere conversion of the game into 3D, but the opposite is true.
From our point of view, it is as more about the evolution of a very interesting concept which deserves further development.
We want to offer players similar gameplay but enriched with new features which we find interesting and beneficial for the game as a whole.
We love the original game, but the concept deserves some enlargement.
The basis must remain the same (that is what the concept do it).
But we want to add more elements + mainly to involve the community and their possible ideas.
The first changes are already implemented in the game and are described on the main page.
And yes, we have informed the authors of the original game.
And no, the authors of the original game are not connected (at work, personally or at another level) with our game.
We want to bring this concept to players who do not much like the 2D style of playing and are also more casual.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/732160/discussions/0/1742231069944199240/#c1796278072824892216
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In essence being inspired or totally rip it off, there is a truth to it.
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i have read this and its good that they dont lie but lets be honest, nobody would believe them when they would wrote something like "it was our idea"^^
did you played kingdom and at least the demo of this game? it looks to me like the developer just wanted to gain as much money as they could with almost no effort^^ i have never seen such a 1:1 copy of a game
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Not really, but as Elda says games are usually copies of other games, not that i can think of examples but i saw worse cases of copying 1:1.
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I don't see any problem with building upon other game's idea and improving upon it. In this case, while the game mechanics is the same, the graphical implementation is sufficiently different.
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If you're trying to make money with almost no effort, developing a videogame (a real game, not an asset flip, or an achievement spammer) is certainly not the way.
He's most probably a fan of Kingdom and wanted to make his own version of the game. It's a pretty common desire of game devs, actually.
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Honestly i don't see any problem with it. games have and always will be copies of other games, with a few rare exceptions, and there is nothing wrong with it if the new game will at least try to improve the old game mechanics
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Never heard of Diablo clones (in both 2D and 3D), Doom clones or even Age of Kings clones (including one licenced Star Wars strategy game... and one with cowboys and Native Americans).
Sure, it's a clone, but looks like it's not only graphical difference so let's give them a chance and see if the game is any good in its own.
Oh yes, and one simple Dune 2 provoked so many clones we have an entire RTS genre now.
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Further, one must mind that Diablo and its derivative "Diablo-likes" in turn developed based on earlier Rogue-likes, which naturally derived themselves from Rogue, which in turn was inspired by games preceeding it by nearly a decade.
Mimicry is a foundation of any design field, regardless of if the consideration is entertainment or otherwise.
Moreover, it's considered a healthy business practice for any field (hence why copyright law is generally rather open to allowing such endeavors), and is even encouraged to some degree for artists, musicians, and writers as part of their developmental process. Of course, such encouragement is typically based in the expectation that you'll eventually develop your own unique style out of your experiences; On the other hand, artists selling recreations or musicians selling covers or their services as cover bands aren't at all unusual occurances to encounter.
And then, take D&D- it was a massive influence on western fantasy concepts, but copied straight off of Tolkien (to the degree that 'Halflings' were first included in the original D&D as 'Hobbits', a name which was only changed for later editions due to legal pressure), with most adjustments to the core races infamously having been directed by racial prejudices of the time [thus being responsible for lingering modern associations of Dwarves with Irish cultural concepts, Elves with Japanese cultural concepts, and Orcs with African cultural concepts]. (Just imagine if Warcraft's Jamacian Trolls had caught on more generally..)
Hell, most of the browser-based games of the 90s were strongly based off one another, and such was considered normal. Even now, it's hard keeping the typical flash, mobile, social, platformer, or RTS game apart from the rest. While AAA games and Hollywood blockbusters can typically invest enough money to mask their usually rather derivative origins behind high-end production values and expensive casting, imitation has always been a part of fields such as gaming. For fledgling developers, it's a way to create the game you want to see, after encountering an appealing concept. For established creators, it's a way of catering to market niche, while still being able to offer your own creative expression.
Generally, there's no exploitative intent behind such actions, regardless at what level they occur at. Well, with the expection of blatant cash-ins that mimic other offerings of a particular style, without adding anything new or putting in any effort to add polish or depth. Like Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms. Yech.
Tower Defense and MOBAs are also subgenres that have thrived off people rushing to explore the concept in their own way, after they were first introduced as part of Warcraft 3 modding. If we consider Kingdom [which actually has already had multiple derivatives outside of the one the OP notes, notably Regions of Ruin and Aground] as its own subgenre of the civilization-builder simulation genre, then this isn't at all unexpected or shameful [unless one plans to treat the entire game development industry as being shameful].
(Though admittedly, The Wild Age may potentially be a bit closer to form than something like Regions of Ruin or Aground, both of which incoperate other genre influences into their design.)
The concept of spiritual successors (or derivatives in general) isn't at all new. So long as the offering has its own distinct presence and the quality and invested effort to compete with what it's imitating, then there's not really anything to criticize. As far as that.. well, I was lucky enough to win a copy, and I've already got it installed. I guess I'll be needing to give my feedback in this thread at some point, huh? :P
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game looks actually nice, thanks for recognize me, wishlisted :)
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Inspiration alone is never a ground for copyright infringement. It'd be against the law only if they without permission used the assets, code or other resources developed strictly for the game. Just because the game plays the same doesn't make it a rip-off.
That of course assuming that they took the original concept and tried to improve it in some way, but I doubt any game developer would make 1:1 clone without even putting anything extra, it'd be stupid considering the amount of work done to clone the game in the first place.
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Most RTS were inspired by Dune 2, most FPS were inspired by Wolfenstein..
Think about all the open world games inspired by GTA and Elder Scrolls, go farther back to the Atari Adventure game and everything that has led to.
There is a fine line between ripping off an idea and building upon it I think. I haven't tried this new game so I can't really judge myself.
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More like most RTS games were inspired by Command & Conquer, which built upon Dune 2 and was made by same developers, same with DOOM that inspired shooters, that built upon Wolf 3D, and again, same developers made those. For a long time RTS games were called C&C clones, and shooters were called DOOM clones.
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I mean the devs of Dune 2 invented the term 'Real Time Strategy'. I am not sure how much more influential you can get. xD
But I understand where you are coming from. =)
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I don't think that's a rip off at all.
A rip off is when you put the two side by side and see a lot of similarities with almost zero effort put in it.
I think this is different, It has a "fresh-ish" graphics, more features, more ideas, etc... and as a game dev myself I guarantee there was a good effort put into this.
So Calling it a "rip off" is somehow harsh. View it as a fan project who liked the original and wanted to add on it.
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actualy i started the game and also watched a lets play of this game and i have to say: there are improvements like you can see a counter how many units of each type you have. but they are the same types, require the exact same amount of gold, the same buildings and so on... i would have no problem with this game if they would had their own ideas implemented. but they almost just changed the graphic into a better locking 3d graphic and letting the player moving like 2cm up and down as well (which makes no difference in gameplay^^)
they could used the new dimension for example to let pathes cross, or add new buildings like a fisherman or a forester. they could have used kingdom as inspiration to create something own but sadly they just copied the game
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According to what they said in the link Lugum linked it seems that the developers of The Wild Age are fans of Kingdom and that they want to not just recreate the game in 3D but add more things to it to make it even better. I don't think that's a bad thing, especially since they notified the developers of Kingdom about this and those didn't seem to have an issue with it.
I think the bigger issue would be that the developers of the original game are releasing new Kingdom games and at higher price each time, even though those newer games from what I've read so far are almost identical and probably should have been introduced as small DLC's instead rather than a more expensive "new game" releases.
Either way, I wonder what people like about that game. I was given Kingdom: New Lands as a gift from someone so I gave it a try and I dropped it relatively quickly because it was so boring. Maybe I didn't gave the game enough time, but from the little I played it feels like the game is very monotonous and has almost no depth and variety.
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90% of the game industry is ripping off each other, there's nothing wrong with clones, as for example Doom has inspired some darn good games, some less blatant than others, but it has always been a part of the industry and progress has been done with less creative teams,
on the other hand, games that create a subgenre of their own, are always far more popular and critically acclaimed
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90% of creativity is plagiarism.
unless where talking about christian rock, then its more like 99.5%
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Played Kingdom... wishlisted The Wild Age.
And no, this is not a "no effort asset flip" Seems like a labor of love. An evolution of something prior. Just like anything and everything since Pong.
I don't get your point in all this tbh ✌
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People just don't appreciate Pong-derivatives enough.
..then again, considering the quality of some of the games that make it into my library 'cause of my eagerness to watch balls bounce around, I can attest that such appreciation does neccesitate being paired with a certain self-destructive recklessness.
Speaking of, we need more Jezzball successors.
Warning: Video was rather loud for me. May want to lower volume before clicking.
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I have a severe love for balls myself 👀 A whole category containing Kula World and Breakout/Arcanoid "ripoffs", and I cherish them all.
Recommend Polyball and Grey Cubes
And yes, +1 for more Jezzball
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I love the Kingdom Series! But this game, im not so sure, there are something off with its graphics that just dont suit for me !
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If they let me remove archers from towers, instead of having to plan for a permanent front line, then I'll buy it.
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There's a world of difference between "inspired by" and "copy."
If anything this looks more like a successor to Kingdom.
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nope, they had almost no effort (the creative work and risk had someone else) but just want to get money for nothing
and everyone voting for this is entering giveaways for the game ^^
sg-hypocrites™
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To be fair, both of his poll results are "leading" the crowd.
I found that I couldn't vote at all.
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is ot ok to rip of a game, changing its graphics and selling it on your own?
No, obviously.
Is "The Wild Age" that kind of game?
I don't think so. Biased poll is biased.
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Lol.
They've stolen even such little features like deer-bait with mount
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Taking a fairly complex 2D game and building a copy of it yourself in 3D is the opposite of no effort. Triply so if it actually works and isn't completely broken. Coming up with ideas for games isn't all that difficult, what separates the good games from the bad is implementation and iteration. So I don't know what you're talking about with the accusations.
Also, your poll is sucky. Why do you assume everyone thinks the graphics are better on this one? I prefer Kingdom's graphics. Which is not to say I don't like these, they're quite nice as I like this fairytale art style, but Kingdom's graphics have more... charm, I guess?
Also, thanks for letting me know about this game, insta-wishlisted.
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the game has 3d graphics but you can still run only left and right^^ they didnt changed anything of the game so there is no chance to let it get broken^^
if they would use kingdom as inspiration to create a typical 3d map where you could move in 360°, it would be pretty nice. but as i said, they didnt wanted the effort to think about anything... they just copied and changed the graphic^^
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I don't think you have even the slightest idea how game development works. Not that I'm an expert myself, but still.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the trailer, the game has free movement inside a corridor, which programming-wise is no different from free movement on an open map. The corridor is a design choice, it doesn't make developing the game significantly easier.
And in any case, it doesn't matter the slightest bit that they're copying the design, they still have to code all the gameplay, the buildings, the units, the AI, the animations, the interface, etc. Copying the design has fuck all relevance to the numerous bugs that inevitably appear while making a game that isn't based on an existing polished engine from a previous project. You must be quite clueless to think there's no chance for anything to get broken just because the design isn't unique.
Also, they have to optimize the game so that it works on the low-medium tier hardware they've put in the minimum requirements. That takes major effort, and it's why minimum-effort games almost universally run like shit even on high-end hardware.
And the game has a consistent art style, which means they didn't just buy some asset packs and lump them together, they had to actually create the art themselves.
So, really, just fuck off with this bullshit already.
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Nowadays, so many games are asset flips or pure shovelware.
I think any project that is clearly a labor of love is extremely welcome.
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actualy a new developer appeared on sg, promoting his game and giving many copies away. the games looks not bad, but if you ever played kingdom (and just to be sure, i also watched reviews and tried the demo of "the wild age") its mostly exact the same game. the gameplay looks like they played while programming their game kingdom the whole time so they knew what job, building and so on they had in implement... so i wonder: do you know the game "kingdom"? what do you think about to copy a whole game with almost no changes, selling it just few bucks cheaper?
(if you dont know both games, here is the original version:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/496300/Kingdom_New_Lands/
and the copy with new graphics:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/732160/The_Wild_Age/
I for my own put the wild age on ignore list^^
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