a sad +1 T.T the new generations seem to get worse and worse.
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TL,DR: It's due to a lack of being raised properly.
For starters, more and more of the people you meet on the internet are young kids, so a level of immaturity is expected. The problem, however, goes much deeper than that.
Younger generations are receiving less parenting than previous generations, and their parents are less-educated about how to parent properly than previous generations. This has lead to younger generations receiving much of their skills in social-interaction from non-parental sources (friends, peers, TV, etc.) These non-parental sources are more likely to be devoid of good social skills, compounding the problem by passing on bad habits.
For a living example of this, take a child we shall call "Ann." Ann's parents both work. One parent spends only a few hours a day with Ann, the other parent is only home for 3-out-of-4 weekends a month. Neither parent has been educated in psychology, social psychology, child psychology, education, child-rearing, or any other field which might be helpful to raising a kid. Both parents received minimal rearing by their own family. In short, they have no background to give them any idea on how to raise a child, nor have they sought to teach themselves. Where does Ann learn how to interact with her peers, her juniors, and her elders? From her schoolmates, and from TV. As for her schoolmates, many of them are in similar situations and don't know how to behave properly. As for TV, Ann is allowed to watch anything she wants and watches mostly shows that demonstrate anti-social behavior. Ann is growing up thinking that it is funny and cool to disrespect other people, ridicule those she disagrees with, harm others in pursuit of her own goals, and deceive others if it serves her purpose. In short, she is becoming an ignorant, entitled, lying, selfish brat. To make matters worse, Ann's parents feel guilty because they know they are not there for her, so their reaction to any correction of the situation is to become defensive and blame others for any trouble Ann causes.
I am a school teacher. About half of the students I see in the classrooms are kids like Ann. It is quite likely that Ann will grow up to repeat the same mistakes her parents did, perpetuating the cycle. If you don't want your own children to be like Ann, learn how to parent properly.
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Agree very much with all you're saying here, but I'd like to add that one of the main things missing from these kids, nowadays, aside from everything you said, is a sense of a conscience, and empathy. Those two are intrinsically linked, and need to be taught to kids by showing them the more negative sides of life, also. I grew up with a dad who explained death, watched nature documentaries with me, went for walks in the woods with me, showed me how to gut and clean a fish myself, from a fairly early age. He taught me to respect others' suffering and pain (of whatever kind, physical or mental), and realise how they must be feeling, and taught me that harmony is always a good idea. Kids nowadays are not only extremely sheltered in the west, limiting their growth in the areas of empathy, respect, and self-awareness (including awareness of consequences and a conscience); the lessons they might learn from some "real" moments and talks with their parents that older generations did benefit from are all presented to them by videogames, TV shows, and other extremely unrealistic portrayals of such situations and lessons, or even worse: by other kids who don't know shit about shit yet, themselves - further compounding the problem, exponentially. All the while, these kids are getting a false sense of self-awareness and act accordingly, acting like little wise-asses about things they know nothing of.
Then there's the apparent demonising of childhood and innocence you see in mass media (because innocence means naivety, that you're weak, a pushover, right? Grow up!), alongside the "Facebook-ing" of everyday life, turning real communication more and more into a contest of witty quips, to garner validation from those around, rather than having an actual conversation with no attempt to "sound cool", these two factors causing kids to further want to act like little adults, way too soon. They're learning that interaction with others is all about self-serving motivations, purely for their own amusement, or recognition / validation. Or more often, purely so they have someone to spout their uninformed, reactionary, impulsive, selfish opinions to, rather than it being an actual back-and-forth, as in a real conversation; where you're as much interested in voicing your thoughts and getting real feedback (so not mindless indulgent validation) as you are in hearing others' thoughts, as well as partaking in conversation just for actual human interaction. They don't really listen when you talk to them, they're just waiting for a chance to speak. And when they do, they talk with a tone that says "I know everything about everything, I am so wise, aren't I?"
Kids these days lack self-awareness, a conscience, empathy, respect, and all this compounded by a general lack of emotional depth to them, which all have the same root cause(s). They're turning into vapid, senseless, selfish, spineless little twerps with nothing profound, or meaningful to their character, no sense of what words like "integrity", "morality", "conscience", "care", or even "love" mean. To them, the only concepts and emotions they understand are impulse-driven projections, or attempts to get things they want, now. Anything they can put out into the world, do to the world, tell the world, or take from the world, and damn be all introspection or understanding, or meaningful connection with others.
And this is exactly what the powers that be want for the future world - nice little impulsive, short-sighted, uninformed, sheltered, callous wage slaves with no empathy, morals, dignity, or principles. Animals. Cattle to herd however they choose.
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I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
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One of the problems about I've noticed while complaining about the future generation, is that those younger then the poster by a generation or so will dismiss the evidence as a sign that the "current generation is becoming obsolete" and only those around the same age and upwards will agree. After all it has become a known trope in society for the elders to complain about youth, and so consequently most youth will only see the complaining of middle-aged members of society as the gradual decline into madness.
TL;DR Old people complain about the young'uns
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"..is that those younger then the poster by a generation or so will dismiss the evidence as a sign that the "current generation is becoming obsolete" and only those around the same age and upwards will agree." What do you mean with this part of the sentence? Do you mean "..is that those younger than the poster by a generation or so will dismiss the evidence as a sign that the "current generation is becoming obsolete" and these younger people will say that only those around the same age and upwards will agree with the poster"?
Anyway, while it's true that it's a known trope (current gen bitching about newer gen), that doesn't say anything about any one generations' truth in their critique. Just because the current truth is expressed in a way that conforms to older (often times overdrawn or outright false) forms of expression, doesn't mean it's not true. Everything I said is readily apparent to anyone with any hint of understanding of human psychology and human nature. Go talk to an average 10 - 15 year old, see for yourself. Try to have a meaningful conversation with them about anything - good luck. Try to have them have a moving reaction to another persons' suffering - good luck.
Earlier critiques of "kids these days" by curmudgeonly old people during let's say the 50's and 60's was mainly pointless offence at young people challenging needlessly restrictive social norms and unwritten rules that only stifled creative, individual thought and self-expression. And mainstream media went right along with this critique, showing shock and offence at these kids' new ways of talking and thinking about stuff, trying to hold on desperately to the old ways of limiting personal growth, rote learning, and overly strict, restrictive and in many ways outright abusive upbringing. I wonder why the media at the time did that.. Hmm..
Now what am I critiquing here? Kids being senseless, unempathic, having no mores, no respect for others born from respect for meaningful existence and empathy. Kids being devolved into mindless consumer drones, entirely impulse-driven in even something so human as communication, nothing meaning anything of worth to them, no sense of responsibility for their word and deed, no conscience when they do see the consequences of what they've said or done, no sense of human, deep emotional response.
And is the mainstream media acting similarly shocked and appalled at this devolving of human behaviour and interaction? Nope, because it's all leading to the same carefully engineered outcome that was already in place before without media manipulation, when our parents were kids, and their parents before them - a world full of neat consumers, who won't rebel, or speak their mind freely, or do anything about injustices around the world, because they're too busy with themselves and their own survival. Back then it was social control keeping people in check, and when that began to fail the media tried to shock and frighten people back to the way things were.
Now, it's mass media manipulation enabling and encouraging negative behaviours that only serve to destroy harmony and understanding between people. It's about making it so that people don't have a strong mind to speak freely with, don't have anything interesting to say, because all they want to say is their first impulse driven opinion about something, without bothering to inform themselves, and even then merely to garner some validation, rather than actually weigh in with something of worth.
And the one common denominator in all this? The people who own and run the media, in every form it has taken throughout the years. And nowadays, "media" is an extremely broad thing.
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someone who understood mediated culture FTW. A great video to support this idea
link books but. . internet.
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"Earlier critiques of "kids these days" by curmudgeonly old people during let's say the 50's and 60's was mainly pointless offence at young people challenging needlessly restrictive social norms and unwritten rules that only stifled creative, individual thought and self-expression."
No. That is how it was painted by the "progressives," but that was not the reality. While there were some things which needed to be challenged (corruption, consolidation of power, etc.), many of the social mores and common practices of society were in place because they were important. Instead of pulling the weeds out of the social garden and keeping the crops, the "younger generation" burned everything to the ground. "Old customs" were rejected simply because they were "old," without any consideration of merit or benefit. This left the "younger generation" adrift, ripe for the manipulation and re-education of the "progressives" and their agenda. In truth, many of "modern" society's ills are a result of abandoning those practices which prevented said ills.
You see this pattern a lot throughout human history. In an attempt to avoid being manipulated, people fall into blind rebellion and thereby allow themselves to be manipulated. The details of life may change, but the human condition remains the same.
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I agree that this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated, and that normal people (as opposed to sociopaths and narcissists) can do better. However, judging by things I've read in history books and heard from my grandmother and others who actually know what it was like back then, people have not become less empathetic or more ignorant. Good manners can mask ugly things. I'd rather see things dragged into the open. Life Law #4: You cannot change what you do not acknowledge.
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Younger generations are receiving less parenting than previous generations, and their parents are less-educated about how to parent properly than previous generations.
Neither parent has been educated in psychology, social psychology, child psychology, education, child-rearing, or any other field which might be helpful to raising a kid.
Ehh, how does this comply with each other? You think the older generations got educated in that field? From what I have heard from older generations (parents, grandparents, friends of the former two) it was pretty common to beat a kid if it didn't listen, at school for example.
Or do you think it is a bad thing that doesn't happen anymore like it used to?
Yeah, I bet you just want to beat up some of your students right? (just kidding here off course :P)
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When average people started to use the internet, thats when more people became really rude and idiotic.
I have been on since the days of the 14.4 modem and even then there was rude people, specially kids who think they can get away with everything on the internet.
It was around before the internet but not as many people were that idiotic because back then, you pretty much had to be rude to peoples faces that stopped many people from being rude like that.
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did you follow the early days of NES emulation? Nesticle was a godsend, then came genecyst.. and the swine do nothing but complain about them.
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what they said to Anita Sarkessian ain't nothing compared to what they did to destroy her reputation..seriously, google Anita Sarkessian Vandalism, some people are just too messed up in the head to do such things or perhaps it is because pf the anonymity provided by the internet to such fucktards (regardless of the authenticity and how true her opinion is, nobody deserves such harassment.)
oh, people have been rude and mean to others since wayyyyy before men bitching about the paint job of their car..probably around the birth of penis envy.
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Was this the woman who made a kickstarter project just so she could make youtube videos, or is that someone different?
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To be fair, Anita herself makes extremely broad, generalising, absolutely thoughtless and often exaggerated comments that make about as much sense as a badger swimming in a burning tub of marmalade. She has some good points, says some smart and thought provoking stuff, then comes out with stuff that makes you think "really? Seriously? Like, for real woman?"
Although, of course, any criticism levelled at her that isn't a proper critique of the more asinine things she says (maybe with a little sarcasm or vitriol, sure) is unfortunate, and pathetic. Screw all these idiots on the 'net acting like little provocative shits, trolls, posting things that really not only go way too far in their level of insult or outright harassment / threat, but also are things they wouldn't dare say in a public place in the real world, for fear of being smacked upside the head or seeming like brainless little jackasses. Which, of course, they are.
Just want to make sure that in your reading up about the Anita issue, you're seeing not only the sea of turds floating to the top of your attention because of how much they stink, thus perhaps purely wanting to defend Anita - but that you also see what kind of posts of hers provoked this tide of absolute morons and unscrupulous kids with no sense to them to act so horribly (although I am in no way condoning or approving of what people are saying / doing; screw those rude little shits, shame on them).
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Yeah, I don't support Anita but like you said, it really doesn't excuse any such behaviour towards her. It really disgusts me that people can act in such a way. And while some of the arguments she makes can be stupid and the counter to her arguments can be valid... sometimes some people just got carried away and just went completely blind to anything else she said because of those other points. Then there's people who go beyond insults to her and just insult women in general based on her words and actions and it's never right to judge a group based on just one person (esp in this case the group being half the population). Makes me rather depressed looking at all those types of comments, really. =/
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Specifically concerning all that "insulting all women" bullcrap - it is merely them trolling and trying to piss people off. Maybe a fraction of a percent of the people posting those things genuinely believe in / mean what they're saying, and are genuinely that misogynistic.
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It doesn't matter if they're trolls. Saying "They're just trolling" is equal to saying that that kind of behaviour is acceptable. "Trolling" does not excuse saying that type of stuff. I will never understand that mentality. There is no reason ever to say the type of stuff that those people say. It's plain disgusting.
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I mentioned this later on down but there is a fine line between trolls, of which I think is somewhat healthy- sometimes even entertaining- and a level of grossness. I get the feeling that most people are misinformed of the difference. There is a level that people go from being a simple troll to becoming a criminal. In many cases, I just used the first example that came to mind, there has been an evolution of the way people go about trolling.
I mean it is one thing to make a counter argument and have fun with it. There is another where people shoot insults back and forth. Then there is the level where if it were a one on one basis someone would be going to jail.
This is the subject I have brought up, seeing it is more commonly found in gaming circles that there are these cases of people going to this third level. In the news I see it and online. Yes, Facebook and other internet groups have these events. . . but it does seem that gamers have take it to a different level. I think of LOL and COD when I think of shit talkers. . . I think of gaming threads when it gets worse. I think of Mr. Fish. . . Wollay and ___ game dev who are seeing constant threats over theer game. Game devs are just doing it for the love. Though there are more praise then what is threat, not in Mr. Fish's case. . . but is shocking to see that it has become so frequent that even here we are like "meh, just part of the industry now". I don't know when it happened but there was a line from it being generally discussing to socially acceptable. . . err tolerated. . . an accepted fact?
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Except Gamestop never said that DLC was. People are just stupid if they think the DLC would still be there.
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If a dev says don't buy it. . fuck no. You buy it, knowingly that the dev has stated "don't buy my game it is broken right now" then you have signed off all rights to says shit. To open your mouth and say hey "you sold me a broken game you mislead me". . is pretty much a testimony of one's own idiocy.
That being said other then Dayz. Sure you have the right to say something but my reply is more to the fact that devs wouldn't be doing this if people weren't paying for it. Saying Dev's are cheating consumers due to selling them what they want is like yelling at the step for stubbing your toe.
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They are selling you the game, before it's done, at the finished game's price. Think of it as a pre-order where you can actually try the game as it's taking shape instead of having to wait for release day. They're offering you the opportunity to try the game as it develops and give your input to help in shaping the final product.
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Planetary Annihilation and Wasteland 2 were different cases, coming from Kickstarter, where it was a privilege and reward for higher tiers/people who have paid more to get their hands on the product earlier. So the devs couldn't just shit on those people right away and immedietely offer the same thing for less. But finer details like this are even more likely to escape people.
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The point I was trying to make: you had to pay/kickstart more to receive additional access to worse version of game.
Zomby2D made it sound like EVERY early-access or kickstarter is "pay same, get more", while it only applies to selected games.
Doesn't change the fact they actually charged less from some people (Russian region FTW :P - Planetary Annihilation Alpha was for $30-40, while US and Euro had it for around $90).
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There are special cases like those, but they're not the norm. Plus, honestly, no one is forcing anyone to buy them.
If you want to buy a fully developed, released game then just ignore the early access ones. How hard can that be?
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this. its their fault they released it unfishished and at a markup. they were asking for these messages. They knew their forum was unrully dicks from back in the early kickstarter days. I'll have to find it but I know i read a mod/dev's long post asking the community to stop chasing people away.
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if you aren't receiving death threats, or having people that hate you, then you're doing it wrong.
you cannot please everyone
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I've noticed the same thing. Recently (by recently I mean past 5-ish years), I have noticed that people have a huge sense of self-entitlement. Developers release their works early so people who are excited for the product can try it out and help the developer find bugs and such. When you purchase an early access game you are supposed to be aware you are spending money to try something before it is actually finished, but for some reason people don't understand that. They pay for it then when they find out it doesn't stack up to their expectations (either because its a not finished product or just not what they thought it would be) they demand for their money back. It's easy to blame the internet for the new found pride in people since you can go on any social network site, create an anonymous account then flame people or leave bad comments. Easy to do when your hiding behind a screen. It's sad that developers are receiving death threats. I believe it was Tommy Refenes who said "People will always be assholes just to be assholes. They hate when other people are in the spotlight and they're not, so they will attack/flame them just to get noticed." I read a good article about how hard it is to be a developer in these times. I'll try to find it.
EDIT: Found it, but unfortunately you can't find it through the site but here is a cached version Clicky
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I think it's definitely something new, something borne from the surge in both the internet/online gaming and PC gaming as a whole. To be honest, I both love and hate that the Internet makes everything so readily available. As a kid I used to save up a couple of dollars at a time til I could afford to buy a new game, and all the waiting and effort and not knowing much more about what you're getting than seeing a short review in a magazine or playing it on a demo console at the store made it all so much more exciting. You'd count down the days til the new Pokemon came out and it was a really cool thing you would get excited about with your friends, not pissy about because it's not happening fast enough. A lot - not all, but a lot - of gamers these days are rude, impatient and self entitled. My logic is simply this; either you want to play early access and accept that the game isn't finished, or you can view the date of full release as the release date. I just don't get how people read the notice on the store page or dev website of a game that clearly states that early access isn't a full release and they STILL expect a 100% perfect, working, completed build. Not to mention that I'd bet no one with that mentality has ever developed a game worth playing, they clearly have no idea how much time, effort and resources goes into making games.
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1: Some people have always been impatient. Especially in a generation when things are often availble instantly and at the touch of a button. Its a popular game of course some people that like it are going to be dick heads.
2: Unless her point was something along the lines of "watch what happens when I troll bait over on 4chan" no it really didnt. Unless of course you want to agree with her and her supporters that trolls represent every gamer. Playing the professional victim the way she does basically removed any credibility she could ever possibly have had. So yeah, trolls are dicks, the internet already knew that, has known that since the very first troll. Thats not bad gamers thats just trolls being trolls and if you actually look you will find countless logical and well reasoned refutations of her work where her supporters treat the people making the refutations just as bad as the trolls making the stupid comments that she parades in her public appearances as the only non-positive responses she gets.
3: Again this is a case of a decently popular game having some impatient dick heads playing it.
4: Just another case of a popular game having some impatient jerks among the community.
Your question is invalid. It has nothing to do with gamers, every community has some dicks, every community has impatient people. This is just you noticing it more because its in an area of things you enjoy.
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for 2. Her point was that games create a potentially dangerous mindset among male gamers. With people replying "show us your tits" and " I hope you are found in a dark alley and raped" kinda proves that point no?
For my point I come from when games first started coming back I remember working hard to learn how to partition, manually, so I could run Mechwarrior 2. Back in those days gamers were not the most popular group. Mostly geeks. Upon meeting other gamers once Quake came out, most would trash talk but after a game was done we'd chat about things. . . Very few gamers would be so crazy to go outside of their web and attack other people. Over the past few years I've seen people, gamers go from being patient gamers. Hell we waited for Duke Nukem forever for, errr ever. Now I've noted that the vocal majority are attacking Devs, Trolling each other. . . In Some ways I'm starting to understand Mr. Fish more and more. These situations are based around videogames, as gamers we all have a common tie: we play video games. . . In many ways that should be a unifying factor, more often then not these days it has been less so.
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Well if thats actually the point she is trying to make she is doing a worse job than even I thought, and she has zero credibility in my mind.
All she does is lie about games, remove context, just make things up about said games and then troll bait. She has actually been accused of actively censoring reasonable responses in her youtube comment section while letting the troll comments right on through.
All she has done is get a few trolls to chase after her and then use that to silence any and all opposition to her work. Why do you think that at every public appearance her number one repeated claim is "hey look at all these nasty comments I get online". That doesnt prove that games make guys dangerous. Thats as dumb as the usual media blitz any time they find out a killer stood next to a video game at some point in their lives.
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meh, It is part of the socialistic mindset. she is part of the Feminist Theory cannon. Many parts of sociology deals with theories that are broad and thus many people refute them due to the lack of understanding that these are just theories. I studied under a professor who studied the idea that religion was a result of a mental disorder. . . I mean the guy could only teach once a week with all the people out to kill him.
Though I understand the unpopularity of views like hers. . . she has the right to study them and express them. As do you. . . There is no right for someone to threaten someone for that idea. Anitia has the same view as Killing Us Softly. . .
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Yes. People have different views on things and just because of how we're raised or where we come from, we are so quick to dismiss other peoples ideas. If we don't agree with them then it's easy to just call them crazy and say they're wrong. With the internet it's now easier than ever for anyone to make multiple accounts and bash others for their ideas and make death threats just for being creative and thinking outside the box. Dave Chappelle was right when he said we live in a sick environment.
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no one but trolls are saying she shouldnt speak.
The issue is her supporters try to label any one that tries to respond to her work as no better than the trolls she parades around as her only responses. They try to silence the opposing view while the only people trying to silence them are trolls.
She isnt part of feminist theory cannon. There are many feminists that despise the way she is going about things especially with the professional victimhood, makeing herself no different than the trope she tried to speak out against.
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I don't think we need people trying to play the victim when there are multiple people out there who actually get bashed for saying things and also creating things.
Good example is David Vonderhaar who got death threats for patching the DSR in Black Ops 2. He got threats such as "im going to tie you up and rape your family if you dont fix the dsr" and "i hope you die in the gas chambers like your parents did".
Another person who got death threats was Laurie Penny who said in an interview:
“Efforts, too, were made to track down and harass my family, including my two school-age sisters. After one particular round of rape threats, including the suggestion that, for criticising neoliberal economic policymaking, I should be made to fellate a row of bankers at knifepoint, I was informed that people were searching for my home address. I could go on,”
These kind of things happen so frequently that we don't need someone to pretend and make public statements just to get trolls and haters reactions.
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I think in times like those you should remember a couple things.
First of all, that in many cases such voices are just vocal minorities, not really representing all of people playing that particular game.
Second, it is also possible that people are rudely voicing their opinions on the internet more often nowadays, but for some of them it's just a matter of that they're young/emotionally immature so they are yet to learn how their attitude and words may hurt others, even on the internet. But it's a matter of personal emotional development overall, in all areas of life, not only internet/gaming things.
Third, I guess some people are real dicks. But we should try to look at those people with eyes of compassion: they often have problems in life and they come from certain background that taught them this smart-ass attitude. And I'm not saying that you should think about how miserable those trolls often are to make yourself feel better, but to perhaps understand them a bit and don't reply with a message that only adds fuel to the fire.
And that's the end of my smart-pants post :3
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People dont understand Early Acces in all, thats why most of them are bitching
and also because we have arrived to a new genre of gamers known as entitled as fuck and if things are not like we want to be then we will blame the evil greedy corporations and dev and screaming scam at everything
sigh Its a shame really
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Answer to the topic title would be bad poor reflexes/eyesight/age.
The feminist part of the topic... I'm not touching that since I really don't want to look up what she said to get such hate against her. All I know about her comes from that segment of the Angry Joe Show someone linked, where she says she doesn't like video games.
And the kids crying about their early access game updates are just plain dumb and don't have anything better to play at that time.
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Most gamers just want stuff to be here and done and be playable right this moment and if it's not they start bitching about it. It's just sad :3
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So, when was decided "Gamers" are not human beigns?
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Anita literally scammed thousands of gullible fools. Same old a fool and their money is soon parted gig. None of what she did was authentic and all of her supposed "gameplaying" was recorded and copied from others. Best way to make money these days, pretend to be a champion for social justice warriors and get smothered with their parents' money.
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First off, she never scammed anyone. She has delivered on everything she promised in the kickstarter. She did use images from some people's lets plays, but the footage falls under fair use, sadly the term works all the way down the line. She is one of the world's leading women in changing the world for the better. All ignorance aside. She is an upstanding citizen doing what she feels is right. She saw a social issue and instead of just sitting a computer trolling people all day, because she doesn't like what they are doing, she went out and is doing something about it.
Like her opinion or not. . . it doesn't matter threatening to rape and kill someone over speaking up isn't right in any book. So unless you are saying that the people are valid about threatening to rape her over, as you say. . scamming gullible fools. . . I'd suggest not fitting into the bad gamers that I speak of. . . For her opinions are not the core of what I spoke of. Again, I'm speaking about the people who literally stated that she should be harmed, in many, many horrid ways. So your comment here is stating that these people are just?
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Oh man, I was ready for some white knighting, but you took it way further. If you call scamming people out of their money by claiming others gameplay videos were her own is "perfectly alright" and an "example of a world's leading women" which in itself is laughable as calling first world problems about video games a world issue is hilarious.
And no where did I even threaten to rape or kill her, so where'd that come from? The only ones who did that were /b/ trolls, the rest just disliked her obvious scamming bullshit and falsehoods about everything. Now if you think the opinions of /b/ trolls whose entire purpose is to incite buttrage are legit, then what can I say?
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Then why defend the people who are doing so? The core of the point I made was about the people threatening her.
to dumb it down for you the argument went like this:
ME "People are sick for telling a woman that she should be raped due to her voicing her opinion"
You " But she's a bitch"
See you saying that makes it sound like you are validating why people are saying what they are saying.
IF I had said:
"Her opinions are kinda valid, and people are reacting kinda harshly"
and you responded:
"She's a bitch"
then you'd come off less defending of people attacking her. Understand the core before you start to refute.
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Now I'm just confused. Where are you getting all of this stuff about my defense of /b/ trolls or rape and murder? I made a comment on Anita being a scammer and as such should expect attention from trolls looking simply to incite emotions and rage, not a comment about me being a cheerleader of rape and murder.
Anyone who becomes a controversial persona on the internet will at one point or another be shitlisted by /b/ or /v/ or whoever. Now a scammer who purports herself as a feminist and a sjw? That's prime trollbait and no one should be surprised when the trolls come out to play. That was my point.
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yes, you made a justifying argument to counter my point no? The more you argue to validate why people are saying that this person should be harmed, the more you are defending them. See yeah ok, you may not like her. . . but on this discussion the core of the argument isn't about her, rather. . . people who are threatening her. Not about her points. . . rather the gross idea that people went as far as saying she should have harmful things happen to her.
How do you not understand that by coming in here and saying "but she's a scamer" do you not get that you are coming off as defending the people threatening rape? Under a different thread maybe your point would come off as a valid argument/statement. Under the CONTEXT of my ARGUMENT. . any rebuttal towards my SUBJECT is a COUNTER-ARGUMENT. your counter argument here due to the subject of my statement is a validation of the people going overboard. Anita isn't the core subject, more of an abstract.
I'm not being demeaning just pointing out how/what you are doing here. IF you support people stating that X should be threatened with harm then you put in well. . .X did this. . . you understand.
Take Anita's views out of the dammed equation and you'll see how stating "but she's a bitch" makes you actually supporting the people who are saying this stuff.
If the core of my argument wasn't Bad Gamers your comment would have different context.
I only state this over and over for understanding this concept could save you later in life. Opening your mouth to state an opinion isn't always as such. Missing the core of an argument could see yourself on the short side of the law: people discussing some event where people were killed and someone hears a key word and inadvertently justifies the crime. Or a good beating: Missing someone is talking about their sister and stating that "she has a nice ass". A core to survival is understanding the core of a statement before just blurting out something you have a strong opinion over. But this has enlightened me a bit about what makes Bad gamers: blinded by privilege to the point of losing logic.
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Validating? Is this your first day on the internet? Trolls do this shit for fun, purposely outraging and making people angry is the game of the internet. It's not just pissing off one group of people, it's pissing off everyone.
Your logic is complete doublethink. Because some trolls shitlisted her, no one else can criticize her because they will suddenly support the trolls? You don't see the blatant nonsense there? I brought up that she's a scammer to give you a reason of WHY she was targeted with trolling. And why other controversial people on the internet are targeted as well. As I said previously, if you don't understand that this is done for laughs by people who don't give a shit, why am I supposed to justify their behavior for you?
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You completely miss the point. . you are like a bull who sees red. Her views have nothing to do with what I was speaking of. The WHY is nothing. . . it don;t matter much. you brought up the misinformation of her being a scam artist in justification of the WHY.
If you don't get that you are making yourself into that very category of which I speak of. . .the core of my argument.
Trolls are ok. . the people I speak of have done far worse then just a simple troll. . . they have going on to do criminal acts that people are not referencing because they don't want to be caught in the web of shit. There is no validating these people that are being loosely referenced here. You are a fool to think otherwise. Rape is not a laughing matter. Nor is posting fake sexual images. . . there is a fine line between criminal activity and having a giggle.
You aren't supposed to justify anything. . just stop trying to justify the criminal actions of others.
you can not like her all you want. . . .just understand that you are not making a counter argument over the validity of Anita's statements with your line here you are still, foolishly, justifying the treats of harm over expressing opinions. . I know this isn't what you meant do do. . I think. You have yet to state otherwise.
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You're the one claiming I should justify the trolls and the rape threads, do you even read what you write? I just stated in my previous post why you're expecting me to justify them, and now you once again claim I'm justifying criminal actions.
The point I stated was simple. You asked why "bad gamers" spammed shit about rape and murder or what not, I stated that it's inevitable that controversial personas will be obvious trollbait. Then out of nowhere you started saying I validate them and demand that I explain why I support murder or rape. This is where I have no clue where you went. Do you see my posts and just add additions of your own that aren't there?
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again I've never said you said these things, rather that you missed the point that you are giving an argument for why these people are valid in doing so. . . constantly offering you a way to point out that that isn't your intention. . . and pointing out that with your previous statement of she is a scammer is, in fact, a pro argument for alluded comments and actions towards her.
I'm not stating this is your intended argument, rather stating that you should check yourself for this is the argument that you have made. . intended or otherwise. Though you are merely expressing your opinion you are doing so in support of, and continue to do so, justification of these people's actions. No where do I say you are doing these activities, nor do I state that you are activity justifying such. . . rather you have mistakenly supported these actions by. . . well following in these people's footsteps.
My OP speaks of the madness of how far people went against her, yes many people have been hit with criminal charges with how far they went in "trolling" her. These people went waaaay over board. It doesn't matter what she did or said. . . the actions of these people is the core. Your statement, far so be it as false as it is, goes in parallel of the people I was addressing.
Your statement of "Anita literally scammed thousands of gullible fools. Same old a fool and their money is soon parted gig. None of what she did was authentic and all of her supposed "gameplaying" was recorded and copied from others. Best way to make money these days, pretend to be a champion for social justice warriors and get smothered with their parents' money." Is a direct retort to my statement of the overboard, despicable things people did to her. You, accidentally or not, are actively making an argument for these actions.
By you actually sticking your nose out and saying something negative puts you in the support grouping of the people doing the heinous actions I refer towards. Not because your opinion holds ground or not, but in context of how and when you presented it. I'm trying to educate you her not attack you in anyway.
Which is why I'm repeating myself and what I am saying over and over. . in different ways. You constantly are rehashing refusal to admit that people went overboard and are constantly attacking Anita. . . practically saying that you are one of these people who trolled her. Making it seem like you are defensive over prior actions. For that is the context that is in the road map of your line of statements.
In counter to my mentioning the overboard trolling you
A: said an argument to support the why these people are doing what they are doing
B: Stated a red-herring of white knighting avoiding the part where I said you don't understand what you are saying
C: Have not stated that there could be the possibility that these people have gone overboard.
Again I'm saying that your missing the point of your point. I don't believe, for a second that you are in support of these people going overboard on her and constantly trying to educate you into attempting at refining your statement.
You kinda started with "alidating? Is this your first day on the internet? Trolls do this shit for fun, purposely outraging and making people angry is the game of the internet. It's not just pissing off one group of people, it's pissing off everyone." but missed the part where you actually separate yourself from the activities of them.
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Alright, I finally get your argument. If I don't explicitly state that trolls go overboard all the time which should be common sense, I'm actually supporting and validating the trolls simply by stating the fact that she is a scammer and as such will attract attention from trolls like flies on feces. I understand your point now. I unquestionably disagree, but I understand.
Could have said so from the start though, instead of putting words in my mouth and then getting frustrated when I don't actually think that way.
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Yeah its actually pretty funny (and somewhat disturbing) how he opens a topic to give his opinion on certain matter, then proceeds to disagre with anyone who had different point of view, labeling them as "rape supporters", "trolls" and whatnot
I guess if you dont share the same opinion as i do, youre nothing more than part of the problem. Flawless logic right there
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I never said he was, rather that is the context of delivery, I was pointing out the flaw. . . not saying the statement. Perfect logic. . . flawed comprehension skills
edit. . . I constantly said over and over and over. that I was not putting words into the mouth of Paradosi just pointing out the context of his statement and the dangers of such. Trying to refine, and understand what was said and why it was said. I actually made very clear, on many occasions my intentions and also my reasoning.
Edit 2: I never disagreed with anything. . . I even say he had the right to his opinion. Always missing the fact Xarabs. . . just to prove how much of a dick you can be eh? Shame to we used to be buddies too what happened to you?
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One of the things you should do when starting an argument or presenting your point of view, is to leave at least some possibility that you might be wrong. You entered this topic with already deeply ingrained views and no ammount of facts and constructive criticism will affect you at this point. I don't think i should even explain you why such conduct is wrong.
So here we are now, with you playing the cheapest cop out ever a.k.a "i thought we were friends, what happened" card.
It is completely unreasonable when you're friends with someone to expect that they should unquestionably agree with your views just for the sake of good relations
EDIT
Also it seems like you did zero research regarding Anita or at least just saw one side of the story. Ansatsunin, MysteriousRacerX and Paradosi gave some really good posts but you mostly wrote them off
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Schalart, do you remember what I said to you in your last thread? About how you're just insulting everyone and how that isn't helping even the people who agree with you care about anything you say? Yeah, you're doing that again. You're not reading their posts. You're rewriting them so you can dismiss them easily. You have always done this. Stop it and actually read and respond to what is written just for once. You come in here every time and you state your opinion as absolute fact by refusing to accept other people have anything useful to say that isn't exactly the same as your opinion.
"I posed a question and am listening to everyone else here. reading everything."
That's what you say. What you're actually doing is listening to those who agree with you and dismissing those who don't. Just like you did last time because some people dared to use Adblock of all things.
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who have I insulted. You trolls are just full of yourselves now. QQ more Jade QQ. I have refuted nothing. Just noted a mistake here. your belligerence amuses me jade. . Love how you and xarabas have actually constantly been overlooking every fact and reality of the situation with your convoluted ideas.
xarabas is full of shit. I have been back and forth and not ignoring anyone. . . but I see you are that messed up too. I love how you two have personally taken it upon yourselves. to take upon every opportunity to publicly try and make me seem like a bad guy.
I have the right to be opinionated. just as you two have to right to be of much of asses as you can to me, like you have been. It is a pity that you guys have gone this far off the deep end to figure that it is your duty to try and smite me and convoulute every thing that I say. I mean I brought a good discussion here, it is engaging for most people here.
I have not refused any thing I have agreed to this threads idea. Too bad you two are too stupid and fapping at the idea that you think you have the ups on me again.
enjoy your circle jerk with each other. I honestly want to know what people think of the issue brought up and am learning lots from what is being said here. So please jade next time you want to step up and be a fucktrard to me: Make sure you have some validity behind you. Now please politely go ____ yourself
Edit: I know you guys are talking shit amungst yourselves. conspiracy is bullshit.
edit 2: you remember how I wrote an honest apology about it how I had gone overboard over the adblock thing? and how the adblock thing wasn't an ablock thing abut about youtube and the people effected?
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naa, the only thing that proves Jade is that you truly have some kinda out for me and are a True form of an asshole. Any Support member who actually attempts to plan to character assassinate or attempt to plan to ban a member is a whole world of fucked up. The problem isn't me. I'm just responding to you and your fucked up misguided shit. Talking to me as if I were a child/ personally targeting me.
For a case and point You have jumped in and actually proven you have no clue of what you are speaking of. You claim I have been insulting people. . . yet no insults given. You Post that 'm not reading or responding. . . yet I have.
The only point proven is that You an some of your buddies are actually trying to ban me. . . Pretty fucked up. . buy hey If I'm not wrong. . . why not actually grow a pair? I mean I've only hear from people saying that you and you little shithead partner were talking about getting me banned cause you are tired of me. . yet I've been a pretty nice guy. . so why not, instead of being a little shit head man up and quit talking?
A plan is only good as it's weakest link?
Or did you see that your too fucking stupid to actually ban me once you noticed Xarabas was full of it. That I haven't insulted anyone? and are now really pissed off that I legitimately told you to fuck yourself and you cannot ban me because this was a failed attempt to ban me. Idiot
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I did with my 2nd post ><.
Note not putting words in your mouth, more pointing out the fallacy of the structure of your statement. The structure of said rebuttal was in contrast of said subject. You did, in fact state an opinion that, though indirect, supported justification towards these people. Just doing my community service here. Disagree or not, that is what you did.
It's not what we intend to do, still trying to understand yours, rather how and, more importantly, when
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It's less about them being "gamers" and more about the pressing desire to express every single opinion that forms in one's mind. Call it Internet-syndrome or being lost in a growing population, people just want others to care about what they're saying.
The irony, of course, is that no one is really listening. Each simply waiting for their turn to speak.
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it's funny, you can find newspapers from the 1950's or older with articles about how the next generation is the worst ever and things were so much better back 30 years ago, and how [insert new technology here] is responsible for it all. People don't change.
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and if someone in the 50's thrown into the 1900's it'd suck, and if someone in the 1900's were thrown into the 1850's it'd suck.... Not because people are getting worse, but because we've adapted to a different environment. Sure you COULD spend all your time training to trap game and learning to build a shelter outdoors, or you could spend that time in college earning a degree that will provide food for you and your family without the constant threat of being mauled to death by bears.
And as a counter-point, someone from the 50's that was thrown into our times would probably end up homeless and/or dead due to not knowing how to function in a modern society.
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Oh I don't doubt life was harder back then. But that doesn't make people from that time period necessarily better. And my point was that every time period has people that think that the one after it is worse and the previous time period was better, yet history continues to prove this wrong (we've gained women's suffrage, civil rights, international aid programs, etc...). People in the 50's had their own shit that made them think the next generation was worse than the previous generation. Every generation has that shit. And since you have a front-row seat to your own shit, and since most people tend to romanticize the past, they end up thinking that the previous generation was amazing and the current one is awful, when in reality they're basically the same.
Also, I'd bet that the 2000s BCE were more unlivable than the 1930-1950s CE. Yet I'm sure the people in 2000 BCE thought that the next generation was awful.
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totally! every progression makes life easier. I tend not to romanticize the past.
I have a working theory that empathy is the result of this phenomena. With the progression of society and the production of tools to make life easier, come less of the need from immediate survival which in turn spawns the development of new pathways in the mind that allow for new, more evolved emotions.
Like it has been less then 70 years that the notion of racial ignorance has taken a grasp in the common collective. That took over 200 years to become common day practice. This issue I lay is part of that research. Solution - problem solution problem. One of the new forms of societal issues is boredom. With less of a need of survival and an imbalance of social interaction, tied with a major lack of community. . . I find that some of these issues coming up are partially part of this.
With no doubt there are better things out there now then bad. Like all the freedoms that have been acquired. It is an interesting thing to watch. We have grown so fast in the past 10 years that even people born in the 70's have a hard time keeping up with the times. Though there is a generational gap usually of 20 years (approx time from families to copulate between each other) there is a large gap found, even within 5 years now. Pretty crazy.
Edit: Though most of us will never have it as bad as it was from the 60's before. . . at least we have 9/11. Yeah I'm Canadian, but we feel the paranoia left from it
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I skimmed through the post, but I think I get the general idea. The problem, I believe, is ignorance. We all get anxious for things but we do not understand the work behind fixing the issues and we do not understand that maybe for companies like Rockstar there is no excuse while for small indie companies, we need to give them a little bit of slack. If everyone were to have a house built for them, they would know that if it is a small team of guys, they wont be expecting it any time soon, but if it is a large team of workers, we know to expect it in a yearish period. People understand what it takes (for the most part) to build houses, so they understand, to an extent, that there is going to be a lot of waiting involved. However, when it comes to wiring and plumbing issues, we might get anxious because it is such a small part of a house, why would it be faster to install than fix? Some people cannot comprehend that magical wands cannot magically fix our problems and immediately tell us what is wrong and what will work. This applies to everything, the only reason it is noticeable on the internet is not because the crowd is worse on it but because it is larger. Instead of a small family complaining how long it is for the damn tech guy to fix their internet issue, it is a whole human race that is hooked to the internet. It is easy to point the finger to blame at the new generation, but this has been a problem since the dawn of time.
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well, yes. people is impatient as fuck, specially those who doesn't know shit about developing process, and how much time that requires. that + internet == huge amounts of pricks... but that is what happens when you want money for an unfinished thing.
even if you do the proper thing, and explain in every possible way, that your game is in BETA (or even alpha), and is not finish... those pricks doesn't care about that, hell, they don't even know what beta means... they just want to play the game, they pay for it.
i think is part of the deal, devs accept the pricks in order to have the money to finish their games.
if you need the money, then you have to tolerate the pricks. (si te gusta el durzano, bancate la pelusa)
it's sad, but it's true.
with the anita thing, i'm not going to post my opinion about it, because you are going to call me a murder psycho rapist bigot...
but yeah, is not about gamers, is about people.
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not going to call you that. . nor did I say that before. . . if say you opened with I don't think that people had the right to go as far as. . . but this is what I think of her. As said before the core of my point was not of her. . . rather how disgusting the comments towards her became. There is no reason on this planet to threaten personal harm over opinion. The things people did go far beyond what I've stated here, yes the r word is mild compared to what people have done. I wasn't saying to said person that they were doing it/ just pointing out they were making an argument for the people doing the crime. . . missing that as the subject.
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But the point of early released games is to get feedback from the community in the form of bug finding and ideas for improvement, but the only feedback they seem to be getting is death threats and lawsuits.
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early release shouldnt be full price then. funding completion is what kickstarters are for
and deadlines not met should be honestly moved instead of halfassed and "we'll fix it later" especially bugfinding. do your debugging and testing before it hits your customers, at least the most obvious ones you can't get them all fine but you should get the majority(cough bethesda broken mainquest for a month after release cough)
its just a crappy trend that seems to be spreading and I think some of the vocal users are getting fed up with it in general more than starbound specifically and others are just assholes yes :P.
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Why not? It's the developers decision to make it whatever price they want, not the consumer. If you want to make a game and then release it early and half price it go ahead. They have a huge warning telling you its a not finished game so only buy if your ready for bugs and crashes, so you're aware of what your paying for. It's not the fault of the developers that people have the "gimme now" complex and jump through the fine(BOLD) print to buy the game.
EDIT: And most of the Early Access games I have seen don't sell the game at full price. Example that comes to mind is ARMA 3. They sold the game through early access for $35-ish dollars and then that amount slowly went up with each update till they released the full game for $60.
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that way seems to make more sense. it'd keep the rioters quiet too. minecraft did the same sort of thing(although minecraft ended a bit high for the indie it was, I don't think many bought it at the full price, never going on sale or dropping with age may have scared away some curious/late buyers, the demo helps alot though. more games should still do demos)
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Unfortunately, I did :P didn't have a good computer (had a computer from way back in 2000 for the longest time) so I had to wait and I just got it about a year ago. been happy with my purchase though even though I don't play it much. No death threats have been sent demanding for my money back :)
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The CoD hype is dwindling now it would seem. I still haven't played CoD Ghosts yet and I got CoD Black Ops 2 about 6 months after it came out for half off. The series just isn't going anywhere now. They used to have amazing single player campaigns and then the multiplayer was there to keep people playing, but now the series is so heavily dependent on the multiplayer that the singleplayer suffers :(
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Mate not all cod games was like cod ghost or other black ops...I was playing online and offline events through games like quake I , UT99 , Quake III Arena and i was also cod player through cod1,cod2 and cod4 then cod series goes down and now they shity and casual so i stop play cod series but as i said not all cod games are casual try your skill in cod1,cod2 and cod4.I post some old pov fm from old cod games check it if you got time maybe you change your mind about cod series.
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Much more people got inter-network in this days (mainly kids who don't respect nobody and nothing just check old pov from games (quake,ut99,quake 3 arena,cod1, clan vs clan from old days and present time (new shity cod games,cs:go) and look how behave old gamers and today's gamers during the match's)...I days i remember inter-network was available for the few who could afford it.
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Just remembered something funny. The PAYDAY 2 Developers made fun of their community in the semi-new CS:GO Heist that was released. In the trailer the news bar at the bottom says "game company release free content, internet users furious" just thought I'd add this in here.
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I was just on the Starbound Discussions and people have been saying that Starbound needs to update now!! calling it abandon ware and stuff. Yet Starbound has constantly been updating their pending update log, working during the holiday . . and so on.
Anita Sarkessian was a woman posting a thesis online about the subjugation of woman in video games and saying how some of the depictions of women can be harmful to the mentality of women and men, about female roles. Something that has been around for a while, with Books and movies. Then to prove that she is wrong. . . some people started saying some, and I'm being kind here, really stupid things to her and towards her; somewhat proving her points I may add.
In the Case of CubeWorld Wollay went into silence due to newbs coming in spamming for an update and threatening them. It took them three months to just to start to talk about the new update(sometime soon).
For Dayz people screaming and yelling over the dev process to hurry up and get done. yet people can only work so fast. Then finally when they do launch they post " We strongly advise you not to buy and play the game at this stage unless you clearly understand what Early Access means and are interested in participating in the ongoing development cycle." yet people still buy it and demand refunds with threats of lawsuits.
My question is when did gamers begin to become so over confident with their righteousness that they are openly opinionated to the point of regressing any proof of evolution in the species. Or is this something new, a mentality born out of the internet? Or is is just everyone(edit: as in like always been this way)?
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