I look forward to Mass Effect 3. Playing through the first and 2nd right now again.
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Game promises twice the dialog of the 2nd game, going by that it will be long enough without the DLC, most games have DLC now, its a sad truth but I doubt that will mess up my enjoyment of the game. Wanna see worse DLC? Check out Saints Row 3, this game is not the worst offender.
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"Game promises twice the dialog of the 2nd game," So its even more of an interactive movie/QTE-fest than the last one?
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You can get good RPGs which require the player to do more than advance the conversation.
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Both of you seem to have not played the Mass Effect series or you would know its based on a a lot of choice dialog. Its something people like about the games btw...
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I'm an ME hardcore fan. Been playing the game since the release of the first, so no..I wouldn't boycott. Actually, I preordered the Collector's edition, and I'm happy for EA/BioWare. Honestly, those people help publish great games. Yes, they sometimes take it 'too' far and pull more money than necessary out of our pockets, BUT, it's all because of the demand. Anyone who has a product that has such high demand, and costs so much money would do the exact same thing. Don't like it? Stop buying their games, but don't 'threaten' just do it, if you think you're doing the right thing.
Plus, a game like ME3 skyrocketing, means we'll see games with the same quality and better, and that's something that I REALLY want.
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I'm sorry if you really think it's just because of demand that they are pulling money out of peoples pocket. With only a few exceptions, most large corporations aren't run by people who actually care about gamers. The people at the top care about money, that's how they got to the top.
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Yeah, I understand that. What I meant by that is that because of the high demand, they can do whatever they want price wise, since people want their shit. If people didn't care about their stuff, they wouldn't charge this much. Supply and demand, sorta..
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We're already there...
"with higher prices"
Dead Island: AAA price for B development
"more DRM"
So many games lately are crippled by DRM.
"studios leaving PC development altogether (barring console ports)."
So many games now-a-days are half-assed console ports or no better than console ports with the software mouse, shitty acceleration settings, poor keyboard control schemes or flat out 'all but requires controller to play'.
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You forgot the wonderful ''developed for PC'' games where they haven't even removed the xbox controller buttons from the tutorials.
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Eh.... not so much.
Braid for example has full 360 controller support and if I have an XInput emulator (or 360 controller) installed Braid replaces the keys with XBox buttons.
But things like Skyrim, where the default UI is essentially INTENDED to be used with a controller and fails so miserably with a mouse (i.e. not being able to click things in the menu), yes.
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He sure as hell wont hurt himself.
"higher prices"
No issue for pirates.
"more DRM"
Zero DRM for pirates.
"studios leaving PC development"
Nah, the indie market is blooming and the PC gaming industry is growing year after year. The people leaving are the people who contributed the least and asked for most.
Face it. Publishers like EA, Activision, etc. are what's killing the industry. They need to die, as fast as possible. It will be better for everyone. With services like Steam, Desura, IndieCity, etc., the Developer-Publisher system became obsolete and is only getting in the way. With steam, a developer gets 70% out of each sale. With a publisher handling that for him, he gets 5, maybe 10% in retail, 20-30% tops from a digital sale.
As for pirates, with a pirate, he gets zero. If that pirate chooses not to pirate his game, 95% of the cases he still gets zero.
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I'm not denying that AAA publishers have all 10 fingers in our pockets, however they use it as a reason to pass the buck onto honest comsumers ("If just downloading a game for free was not an option, you honestly cannot say 100% of the people would not have purchased the game to begin with." blah, blah)
It's just rather sad that piracy is becoming the more attractive option for PC gamers because of it.
I do wholeheartedly agree that the Developer-Publisher system is horrid and needs to GTFO. Rushed product and slashing and burning development studios is getting old fast, not to mention the nickle and dime pricing model.
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"If just downloading a game for free was not an option, you honestly cannot say 100% of the people would not have purchased the game to begin with."
No, I honestly can't. I can, however, honestly say that the vast majority wouldn't. 2 Reasons for this:
The majority of pirates do not come from wealthy countries. Balkans, China, Brazil, other places where piracy is the norm. They pirate because buying is not an option, at least not yet (out of personal experience, Croatia is slowly getting there). The only two options for them is "pirate or don't touch at all". The second one isn't really an option, since the first one, for them, has no negative consequences whatsoever.
People who do pirate (I used to, so again, personal experience), don't just download 1 or 2 games a month - the equivalent of what a paying customer would probably buy. They download everything. If the game is remotely known, they will download it to have it ready if nothing else. Sometimes they will play it for an hour or two, sometimes they wont at all, sometimes they will complete it. Most people would not touch it past finishing the story, since there's no incentive (achievements, bragging rights, etc.) RPGs and similar stuff might be an exception, but your average action game is not. Because of this, you get massively inflated piracy "statistics" which have very, very little to do with reality.
So yeah, I can't say that not a single person would pay if they couldn't pirate, but I can say that the vast majority, would not. Sure, most might buy a couple of games a year, but that wouldn't be even 5% of the amount they download.
Look at me, for instance. I used to play pirated games, but I don't anymore, at all. Not due to some moral reasons, but simply because of the oversaturation with games that used to ruin my fun with them. Now that I'm on a budget, I tend to enjoy the games I play much more. However, I still download a torrent on occasion. Not for me - for my brother in law. He isn't tech savy and he knows I can do it. I have no hopes in explaining to him why I don't want to pirate. He wouldn't understand, he'd consider me weird, or he'd think I just don't want to help him and I'm using lies as excuses (not as negatively as this sounds, of course). The mentality is simply such. You can't explain it to most people here, they need to understand themselves.
Luckily, platforms like Steam, which insanely lower game prices (as they should) are helping with this mentality.
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100% agree! The services and the regular sales on Steam also convinced me to stop pirating games. I've been a gamer since my childhood and due to the lack of money i enjoyed downloading tons of games very much.
I started with Steam buying Counterstrike: Source retail for the multiplayer. Now after 2 years of buying games on steam, I have a huge library. And I won't miss the community features, auto-updates and other benefits you have there.
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im just like you, ex pirate who fell in love with steam, but I can honstly say that Demos are what hurt most game sales imo, ever played a demo then tried the actual game? most cases they are completely different, Demos so often make me not enjoy a game because of lost feature, like changing graphics, I cant say how many times ive got a demo and tried to turn down settings to work better on my computer, and had locked settings, or the not had the option at all, I end up not trying the demo, or see no options for graphics at all and decide against the game period.
but thats me lol.
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I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. I can imagine someone in the shoes of the larger developers using that as justification to pass the burden onto the actual consumers.
Trust me, as soon as digital distribution has taken off, I have not looked back. However, in an ideal world, digital distribution should mean lower prices due to no physical media. I don't know what type of cut a digital distributor such as steam will take rather than that for the brick and mortar retail stores, so I won't speak about that. If anything, they should be giving crazy incentives for people to get things digitally (no resale market, the other battle with this whole DLC/online pass bullshit).
Although I do like your points about the massively inflated piracy numbers. Unfortunately I doubt those publishers look past anything than the hard numbers that they can gather.
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Not gonna lie, I was looking forward to ME3. However, I was one of the ones who cancelled my preorder. I have enough to play as it is, so I can definitely wait for it to take a couple price cuts.
Nothing angers me more than the current DLC situation, and I have no problem speaking with my wallet, even if others do not. I still feel like things will eventually get pushed too far, and consumers will finally wake up and follow suit. I mean honestly, with the current economic state, you really shouldn't be nickle and dimeing consumers.
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When the previous Cerberus network worked pretty well I thought, something like this does irritate me.
People that support the devs and buy new get early DLC free. Now I guess that's being replaced by the multiplayer online pass so any additional content right out of the gate we get charged for?
Like I said, if people continue to buy the shit, it's just going to continue to get worse.
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Yes, it was blown out of proportion (if rumors are true the //SPOILER: character mentioned is still in the game but you just aren't able to play him without the DLC //, if it's true...it's blown out of proportion.) but that DOESN'T mean it's right, just makes it less wrong then it was portrayed originally by TotalWhatshisface. His basic argument still stands, if you spent development time making a DLC valued at $10 when the game was still being developed then it's kind of a scam to just make it something separate just to make more money.
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Yeah, 2 days ago I was very close to click my "cancel preorder" button too, when I chated with such an EA-support bot (?!) that kicked me withou reason.
But the DLC situation is caused by the CE. They would be angry, if they would have to pay 30€ more, without getting extra-content. But the ME2 DLC are overpriced, 14€ for 1600 Points, thats too expensive, the game costs only 5€ when it was on sale.
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Not going to bother with EA's bullshit. Glad to see I am not alone
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Piracy isn't the cause of those laws. Piracy is just a convenient excuse to push them. It's an excuse because some people (not gonna point fingers) allow it to be an excuse. The true reasons for laws like SOPA aren't as simply as "piracy is killing us, booohooo".
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Seriously? You made this whole thread as some kind of pathetic stab at people who are choosing not to buy the game? Just to imply that they are retarded for choosing to not support something that they personally don't feel deserves their money?
Sigh >.>
Your ignorance is the only thing that's 'mentally retarded' here.
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This. I'm still buying my CE personally, but I feel that those who choose to boycott it properly have their own opinions that are valid. I'm on the fence about the whole thing, to be honest. Both sides have equally good and equally bad points. I'm not too concerned about this DLC fracas, but more about what other, less-customer friendly companies will do after it if it becomes a success.
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A pathetic stab at people who choose not to buy the game? No, i made this thread because when reading that article i remembered about the many posts about how people won't be buying it... yet here we are, record preorder number.
Also, i'm not implying they are mentally retarded for choosing not to support EA. They're trying to boycott EA... i'm not implying anything: that in itself is factual stupidity, no need for me to imply it.
Also, you need to look up the word ignorance asap.
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"A pathetic stab at people who choose not to buy the game? No, i made this thread because when reading that article i remembered about the many posts about how people won't be buying it... yet here we are, record preorder number."
The fact that you think about 100 posts on a forum would influence a series that sells in the millions to somehow no longer sell in the millions is ignorant, imo.
So this thread isn't a stab at people that chose not to buy the game, but you made this thread because you remembered their posts and wonder what they think now that it is selling in record numbers? I don't buy it.
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"The fact that you think about 100 posts on a forum would influence a series that sells in the millions to somehow no longer sell in the millions is ignorant, imo." - no, they think that their influence (on EA indirectly, by not buying mass effect) will somehow make the game not selling millions. I'm just laughing at THEIR ignorance.
Also i don't give a **** if you buy it or not. No offense.
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You can't or you don't want to understand that it's not JUST ABOUT A BUYING DECISION?
They want to hurt a company. That's what a boycott is. It's not just a buying decision; it's a buying decision made with the sole purpose of hurting a company, a decision that comes at the expense of their own enjoyment.
I guess, you're one of the boycotters or something? Otherwise i don't see why it's so hard to understand how a boycott is stupid and how it's not just a simple buying decision.
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"i don't see why it's so hard to understand how a boycott is stupid"
I don't see why it's so hard for someone to have even a modicum of empathy. Yet here we are...
If someone doesn't want to support something with their money, they are not stupid. Just because you think EA is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean everyone does, people are allowed to disagree with you... ESPECIALLY if they can justify their position.
The sole purpose of a boycott isn't to hurt, it's to affect change.
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^this
I think EA sucks, and I hate origin. But I love Mass Effect, so I'm supporting them on this one. I won't boycott, but I will understand and support others if they choose to boycott.
But, hey, I guess that makes me a retard and want to hurt their business...
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You do realise that the Activision boycott for MW2 was a failure, not because they were ignored (though I'm sure they were), but because the retards bought the game on launch day anyway, right?
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This, if you are gonna join something like that, stand by your decision.
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That's exactly what I mean. Making a statement isn't by being loud, but by actually doing something to stop what's happening. If you're wholly against it, boycott, by all means. If your actions are strong enough, it will be enough to stop EA and other gaming companies from doing so.
Honestly, I don't really see the DLC thing as a problem, mainly because all the DLC are "EXTRA" stuff. The quality of the main games aren't worse cause of it. Some people would argue things like SR3, honestly, SR3 was criticized for it, and I'm sure the devs got the message. If they didn't...well, SR4 will be a total fail.
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Yes i realise that. I also mentioned it in the OP actually :D
But i doubt that's the sole reason for the boycott's failure. What these people fail to realize is that these games from EA, Activision will sell well regardless of whether a bunch of butthurt kids on a forum decide to boycott (and not buy it) or not.
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Yes. It's OK. We understand. You are superior. All hail!
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I have a totaly oposite point of view, boycotts work and are an efficient way for the consumers to express themselves, ovbiously if the angry consumers are the minority it wont matter at all, if in top of that we add people that wont do nothing becouse they think nothing will change, and yea nothing changes.
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+1
Companies must love that people think boycotts and protests never work. Not only that but apparently they can get people who have no stake in the company at all to go out of their way to practically insult people who choose to vote with their dollar. The whole thing reeks of the company exerting influence/control over people, which in itself is quite frightening.
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But they actually never work, unless somehow you managed to take it to a very large scale. Look at the Activision MW2 boycott: they tried to make it large scale, there was a petition and it was so widespread that profile sites took the news and spread it.
Yet, in the end, MW2 sold millions. Epic failure right there. Keep telling yourselff that if you don't buy <insert EA game name here> you will hurt EA; you'll only miss on a great game. That's why my impression of these boycott people is that they are completely imbeciles.
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Since it's the biggest boycott campaign ever made against a big gaming company and since there are no successfull boycott campaigns, yes it works.
Well, maybe if you'd be one of the boycotters it probably won't work in proving against boycott (because you'd probably think the activision boycott was a success)
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Oh man, I'm so sorry. I thought we were talking about reality, the thing that most of us live in.
You must be talking about your own little world in your head, where you get to decide what I think, and where you can make statements like 'there are no successfull boycott campaigns' and even for a moment think they are true.
I mean either that or you are completely ignorant and committing the strawman fallacy, but honestly I'd rather give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're playing imaginary in your head.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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That's the example you provide after that "i'm talking about reality here" speech? A google search with no relevant results for the topic at hand: game companies? lol
Wow, you must have the iq of a fish. My discussion with you is over. Oh how ironic the real world is, eh?
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Your arguments? :)))))
I said there are no succesfull boycott campaigns and you made an ironic post about how in the real world there actually are. And when i asked for an example, your response was a google search. With no actual relevant results. Looool :))))
The sad thing is you don't even see why you're an imbecile. I feel sorry for your parents.
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I was looking forward to pre-ordering it, but with origin and zero-day DLC I decided I'll just get something that actually deserves some support (Alan Wake). I'm not happy about this situation, but still I can't boycott one of my favourite series, might as well pick a retail version on sale, but that's it. Which reminds me, when Portal 2 came out, I bought a retail for a fairly low price (450 rub in Russia), got a game, bonus content such as trailers, ringtones, stickers and other stuff. It FELT as a bonus. And now ME3, I have to pay about three times more (1500 rub) for a DIGITAL copy of game + zero-day DLC + customization stuff... Really?
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lol, and if you compare my regional price it's just 3000 Rubel
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Boycotts are mentally retarded? GoDaddy.com, wut?
e: Even in the gaming industry boycotts will and have worked, it's just harder for big titles like these because the mindless masses don't know squat about what's going on, and probably don't care to. The general/casual crowd hurts the video game industry :(
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He mentioned it in that post: "GoDaddy.com".
There also has been at least one major company that's backed down over community backlash. Trying to think what it is right now.
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I think you don't understand that all boycotts aren't necessarily to make the company go bankrupt, but to basically wave a sign that says, hey you're missing out on a chunk of money here only because you are doing this, this, and this. They aren't always successful, but just because the company didn't go out of business or just because they weren't able to stop the game from turning a profit, doesn't mean it wasn't unsuccessful.
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As mentioned by Jade, the GoDaddy.com boycott worked, they supported SOPA (doubt that you know what that is..all things considered..) and the internet community in opposition of SOPA boycotted there services and moved to their servers to other companies.
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Also, another one popped into my head. Apple, a very successful company (despite my hate for Macs, can't deny facts) just decided to review and make changes to worker conditions in China (who make the iPhones/iPads) after protests and boycotts. Just another one that has worked very recently.
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FYI, IIRC, They didn't just support it, they helped draft it.
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Boycotting implies that I would buy ME3 under the condition of change.
Hence, what I'm doing isn't boycotting, it's just being smart with my money.
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Lol so much for a boycott, it was bound to happen eventually....
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I am announcing that I am boycotting this thread on the grounds that playing the original Mass Effect is more entertaining.
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Boycotting EA by way of Mass Effect is beyond idiotic as far as I'm concerned. I want EA to continue making games of ME's caliber and that means people need to buy it.
I don't want another CoD every year -- it doesn't innovate or impress. Mass Effect is one of those series that rivals the quality of cinema and reinvents what it means to be a game.
This news honestly makes me really happy since EA is now wondering what their next AAA premium title will be. It's pretty similar to how Human Revolution did amazingly well and Square Enix now has a reason to continue putting out cinematic, story-driven, quality games.
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They fund the games and they completely own Bioware and all the developers for several games.
And that's beside the point...
If good games don't make money, publishers and developers will simply stop making them. Profits are what matter and the better the game, the more it costs to produce.
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Just because a franchise or style of game is wonderful/perfect/w.e doesnt mean we should support a policy we disagree with. While you see none sale of a franchise as only a killer of that franchise, others see none sales as a way to show that they dont support the policy enforced through said game. I bought the first Mass Effect from the EA store as a second though just to lower the price of another game I wanted (2142). I got around to playing ME and loved it. I quickly bought ME2 (at full price, a first time and only time so far). Now with ME3's position with Origin exclusive and DLC bs I have decided AGAINST buying ME3 to show EA my LACK of support for their position. Buying games doesnt just support devs/publishers, it also supports any policy tied to those games.
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I've not bought Crysis 2, BF3, nor will I buy ME3 (I have Crysis1/1.5, BF:BC2, ME1&2 though). I'm just not buying it because I want it on Steam, not Origin. It's not that I have something against EA, it's just my preference to have the games on Steam, as I've had poor experiences with the EA Store in the past, and Steam had never given me a problem other than the crashing on my laptop (mac issues, lol).
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I find it funny how hard they're begging people to pirate ME3. I have a lot of fairly hardcore RPG and Bioware fan friends who have already said that between the shit in SWTOR, DA2, Origin in general, Day 1 DLC again, etc. that they were not going to buy the game, but would figure out ways to play it eventually or if it became available via Steam. Is their or my $60 going to matter? No. Not individually. But it can help contribute to a metric which EA hopefully won't ignore, which is that prior to Origin, Steam represented upwards of 66% of their digital sales. Forcing the spyware/malware like third party anti-piracy Origin on their paying consumers is stupid. Unlike Steam, they have no issue sharing your personal information, and on a very basic level having to run both Steam and Origin defeats half the purpose of Steam (Having 1 game media library, rather than several.)
I'd also encourage anybody who isn't convinced about the anti-origin sentiment and thinks it is a bunch of crybabies to look through some of the information available about Origin. I personally don't care about my privacy, but most people I know do - and it is a huge part of why they take issue with Origin. Mass Effect has been a great series, as has Battlefield, but there are plenty of non-Ogirin only games with which I can more than fill up my leisure time. I wish the pirates the best of luck, and can't wait to hear the piracy statistics for ME3, which, despite the afterthought multiplayer attempt, is a single player game.
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I would ABSOLUTELY encourage people to actually read the ToS/EULA etc. that comes along with Origin. It is like Warden all over again, but unlike Blizzard, they talk somewhat openly about sharing your information with third parties.
I have no intention of purchasing any game on Origin, and I don't foresee supporting a gaming company/publisher that feels like it is at war with its consumer base, rather than providing content and services to it. This is a huge part of why I love Gabe - he actually gets that piracy isn't a content issue, it is a service issue, but rather than going to war with pirates, he is trying to solve the service side issue. If piracy was a content issue, pirates wouldn't bother.
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Origin mostly, Day one DLC(Not that important to actual game)
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Apparently, there will be a 10$ DLC on day one that includes a playable character of a race critical to the Mass Effect universe. I don't want to spoil anything more.
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Online boycotts don't work because the people boycotting are not the target audience.
Big companies can pretty much just shit out anything for the modern videogame junkies and the bored ignorant, and they'll gladly take it, buy it, get the DLC, merchandise, bumper stickers and branded shades. It's a dark age for the industry.
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I agree with everything apart from the last sentence. It is not a dark age for the industry. The industry is better than ever. You are just focusing on the soon-to-be-extinct dinosaurs (huge publisher and developer companies) instead of the tiny little mammals flourishing among them (indie developers and the bigger companies that are able to adapt).
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I will be honest,i preordered the digital deluxe edition 1 month ago but really it's doesn't bother me about the day 1 DLC(since i get it for free :D) .It's an awesome game noone can deny that.
BUT I understand why people are upset about that, What happens if every new game has a 10$ day 1 DLC? and please don't say "you don't have to buy it" They throw it in your face and they make you to want to buy it.
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http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/mass-effect-3-pre-orders-smash-targets/091840
This news reminded me of a topic (not remember the forum) in which people 'threatened' that they would not buy any EA Origin title (including Mass Effect) boycotting EA's Origin implementation. I wonder what those think now.
To be fair and i hope nobody takes offense, i find the boycotts mentally retarded because in the grand scheme of things you won't be able to change anything (i remember that activison boycott that didn't mean anything as cod still sold millions). These people that 'threaten to boycott' a big company will only be deprived of a good game (in some cases they end up buying the game they were trying to boycott combining retardness with hypocrisy).
So, what do you think?
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