Some people have really strict rules for their giveaway winners. I've come to learn you really can't trust giveaway winners to know that they won, so it really should be your responsibility to contact the winner if you're running a group. But, not everyone wants to do that. Sorry that happened to you!
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It's okay man. It's like I said, it didn't cost me anything to enter. I just know that I don't have time to check every giveaway I enter on every group I'm in. My god, imagine if you had to do that on this site! People would have 100 tabs open at once, the server would probably catch on fire, it would be mass chaos (cats and dogs living together). I'm sure the owner takes pride in his group but I really don't have time to read every post on their page. Just seems a little silly to ask someone to do that.
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Yeah, I understand both sides. I just know, from personal experience, that many people have lives and if they win a giveaway, they might not be at their computer to see the announcement and might forget to check the group resulting in them not ever receiving the gift. I understand the group owner wanting to get people more active, but sometimes even the active members miss the announcements. So it's hard on both sides, it just sucks.
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I personally think that responsibility of contacting the winner relies in the creator of the giveaway. So in my opinion, you didn't do anything wrong. Maybe it would be different if there where written and applicable rules, then I don't know how that would work...
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tl;dr version here
You're potentially in the wrong, inherently [in regards to your statements about his group, and the declaration of reporting for fraud, etc].
It's extremely disrespectful to join groups solely to win things [unless that's the entire point of the group].
Moreover, you agree, at the point at which you agree to join the group, to abide by their rules, no matter how nonsensical they may seem to you. If you didn't agree with that, you shouldn't have accepted the join in the first place.
At best [assuming Bacon's perspective is the more accurate accounting of events], you were too disinterested to pay attention to the group before you joined it, at worst you willingly joined intending to spite the format of the group.
Sure, he made a mistake in contacting you, and that was an unfortunate event that reflects badly on him, but we ALL make mistakes [and have pressures that may delay us in responding].
There's a difference between him making a mistake, and you knowingly conflicting with matters that he wishes you to respect.
If you'd truly been interested, you'd have searched out details on your own once he'd contacted you, rather than having some random person sitting in your friends list for a few weeks.
You seem to be very disinterested in things in general- except when it comes to complaining.
[Again, assuming his perspective is legitimate.]
THAT ALL SAID.
You, as well, have the right to make mistakes, and it's a good thing to learn from and reconsider how you approach things.
Moreover, if the giveaway was through Steamgifts, he's under just as much obligation to follow their rules as you are his groups, and SG doesn't allow him to do what you're describing.
Finally, on the opposite end of things:
Since he never actually informed you you'd won a giveaway, but you WERE contactable, I'm not sure how the deadline could have started.
That seems his own disinterest at work.
So, in summation:
Yes, you should have paid more attention to the group and done better research on your own.
No, he shouldn't disqualify you from a giveaway you didn't have any way of knowing you'd won, that's nonsense.
That's like your bank calling you, telling you they're your bank, asking if it's you there, and then hanging up.
Yes, you probably should have followed up on your own, but if they didn't tell you why they were calling you, they're responsible for the outcome of that.
Also, a whole lot of what he says is weird.
"You know" and "you've won" but also "already redistributed".
So yeah, feels really sketchy.
Note I used a lot of assumptions [eg, non SG giveaway, a non-giveaway-based group, them making the giveaway clearly presented, etc].
If this was a SG giveaway, as I noted above, the fault is fully on them, as they blatantly broke site rules.
Then again, you'd have been informed by the site that you'd won, and you've just as much obligation.
So..
Perhaps if you gave more details, we could answer your actual situation, rather than having to make assumptions about what occurred :)
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I understand where you are coming from, but have you ever noticed the way groups promote each other across other groups? Join such-and-such and enter to win game bla-bla-bla. So you click on the link and you join that group, for no other reason than to enter said giveaway. And now that you've just joined all those new groups do you really think it's fair that people expect you to take the time to go back and look over everything that's written in every group that you've been asked to join?
Also, if he he added me and I accepted, why didn't he just send me the gifts via Steam? He added me because I won, I accepted. So he easily could have sent me what I won, but he chose instead to wait to weeks and say 'hey you won but you didn't quit your job and stay glued to every post that appears on my all important group so sorry your SOL.'
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Yeah, it IS fair to expect you to go and read the rules/giveaway terms of all the groups you WILLINGLY joined. If you can't be bothered to do that, don't join them.
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Understandable, but what's the point of creating all this cross-group stuff where I have to enter COUNTLESS groups to win something. Maybe I should just avoid that kind of thing altogether.
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If you can't be bothered to read all the rules of the different groups you join, that might be for the best.
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You can ignore all my other posts and just quote that last sentence in your post above, to get what I'm trying to say :)
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That's like saying you shouldn't be blamed for downloading malware, after clicking blatantly dubious links.
Just fyi, a fair number of us intentionally AVOID sketchy groups (including any with invite-a-friend/chain-letter/etc mechanics).
You're under no obligation to join those in the first place, and since they never TOOK anything from you, they're under no obligation to you.
[In fact, a credit card company isn't obligated to you even if you later find out their interest rate is much higher than you'd expected, and that's WAY more disagreeable a situation.]
And now that you've just joined all those new groups do you really think it's fair that people expect you to take the time to go back and look over everything that's written in every group that you've been asked to join?
Seriously, going to emphasize this again.
Noone owes you anything. You're the one who started down the path of dubious invite-based/raffle/etc groups, if those turn out poorly, you learn- like most of us already know- those are crap and not worth your time.
Otherwise, you put in the accept putting in the dedication the more legitimate ones ask of you.
These are communities, with their own rules and obligation. As it is seperate from Steamgifts, they can enforce their own rules. Just like any job you may have will have its own expectations of your performance and deny you further benefits if you fail to meet them.
You agreed from the start, noone forced you into it, or took anything from you. So long as that's true, noone has any obligation to you.
Again, as I stated in the first comment, it's all predicated on this being a non-SG giveaway.
If it's a SG giveaway, you were severely neglectful in following up on site notifications, and they blatantly broke site rules. So they should get suspended, and you shouldn't get the game regardless.
So really, no ideal outcome here, unless there's a detail you've missed sharing.
Also, if he he added me and I accepted, why didn't he just send me the gifts via Steam? He added me because I won, I accepted. So he easily could have sent me what I won, but he chose instead to wait to weeks and say 'hey you won but you didn't quit your job and stay glued to every post that appears on my all important group so sorry your SOL.'
Right, and back to the point I made: These kind of groups are all pretty sketchy, just like any raffle site is.
No doubting he was a jerk about it [though, in fairness, Steam OFTEN doesn't notify me of new messages, so.. if that happened here, and he actually did reply previously..]
And, it's his group, so long as he doesn't ask anything from you [ie, scamming you], he can be as much of a tool as he wants to be.
And, again, his phrasing does seem really sketchy.
But, no matter how awful he is, and how not-awful you are, if you're asking not about quality of persons involved, but about 'who is to blame', then that's mostly on you.
It's the fine-line between victim blaming and assailant acknowledgement.
For example, if you get drunk and go into the bad part of town wearing nothing, yeah, you might get a very bad experience. Your JUDGEMENT was wrong. The person assailing you, their MORALITY was wrong.
So, I'm interpreting your initial post as asking more about the former.
If you're asking, instead, 'is this guy an ass and why do groups like this exist', then:
Yes, probably; and because people suck.
My point is only that, as you've described it so far, it's not a simple matter of 'fault'.
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edit : Holy wall of text, batman. Sorry about the post. This is why you should never type while sleep procrastinating at 6am, after bickering elsewhere on the internet. Forward apologies if I come across as overly accusatory, I just see a lot of people around the interbutts assigning hostility and frowny faces to everything where they're actually more neutral. Take the following with a pinch of salt, or take my TL;DR as : "Looks like they're both cranky for unrelated reasons, and took things a little too personally. Seems like a bad match of user and group, and a hiccup occurred. Nothing ill-meaning"
The original TL;DR :
You seem to be assigning a certain element of unpleasantness or even disrespect to the motives of the OP, and yet are quick to offer the giveaway creator the benefit of the doubt when stacking this strange game of Jenga where blame isn't necessary either way.
Not everyone runs a tightly managed friends list. It seems pretty common for people who bump into each other briefly to add each other to friends lists with barely a mention of why. Unless someone makes a point of memorising the usernames of the creators of all giveaways they have entered (and then also tracks the changes in nicknames), there would be no other indicator as to who the person is or why they were adding you. In this case, when the moderator of a group adds you, usually you would want to ask them why directly. The delay in contact could have easily given the false signal that there was no reason behind it, just that a moderator wanted to have contact. Again, some people are like that, adding acquaintances just because.
In my case, I have joined a number of groups over time, but because I'm not an active poster in them, I have forgotten why I joined them and also any rules that stand out away from the norm. That doesn't mean I joined to spite them nor to disrespect them by participating in any giveaways they may launch in the future. Sure it's unfortunate that the OP didn't notice the instructions in the giveaway description, but really I find that such things vanish from my mind within 24 hours, and not everyone thinks to immediately check back on a won giveaway in case there are any such instructions. It seems the OP didn't even get an alert as to having won the giveaway, so there is that too.
The OP does not seem to be 'knowingly conflicting' with matters that the mod wishes him to respect at all. Prot wasn't the most polite, and for that I can appreciate that Bacon didn't feel compelled to stay perfectly polite either, but this looks like a mismatch of interests and individuals. The mod seems to be running a different kind of ship than Prot should have been sailing, and yet for reasons unknown, their paths were still tied. It sucks, but it certainly doesn't seem nearly as spiked and ill-meaning as you have portrayed it. I'm actually reading their conversation like two day-exhausted folks casually butting heads over what is ultimately an innocent hiccup that came off as rude to each person. I uh... probably like I'm doing to you right now. Sorry if I sound like a butt, I don't mean to grouch at you so directly.
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You seem to be assigning a certain element of unpleasantness or even disrespect to the motives of the OP, and yet are quick to offer the giveaway creator the benefit of the doubt
You've an odd interpretation, given that I ended the post rather firmly in the OP's corner.
Not everyone runs a tightly managed friends list.
The OP specifically asked for attribution of responsibility, and if something happens because your friend's list isn't managed, then that's the responsibility of the person whose friend's list it is.
That's just.. intuitive, no?
Unless someone makes a point of memorising the usernames of the creators of all giveaways they have entered (and then also tracks the changes in nicknames
You can manually add permanent (till you change them) nicknames to people on Steam. Perhaps my perceptions are skewed by a subconscious expectation that that knowledge is readily available, and used.
But my point was more that they'd JUST had an odd encounter, and the OP didn't give any inclination that they'd pursued it at all. As I noted, lack of research and follow-up is on them.
I'm not sure how the friends list thing was negatively attributable to them, especially since it's valid for both parties involved.
Perhaps my phrasing was overemphatic or confusing, I apologize if that was the case.
In my case, I have joined a number of groups over time, but because I'm not an active poster in them, I have forgotten why I joined them and also any rules that stand out away from the norm. That doesn't mean I joined to spite them nor to disrespect them by participating in any giveaways they may launch in the future.
As I tried to clarify, I was referring solely to groups that had listed rules on their front page, for joining.
If you forgot, then that's very human, and you shouldn't be punished for it.
But then, you also shouldn't expect others to bend to cater to your mishaps, either.
If the giveaway (group) had rules, and you failed to meet them, then that sucks.
But, no matter how strict they are, that's on you, who decided to join that group.
If the rules are too strict, then the group just isn't good for you, leave it and find different ones.
There is no reason the group should have to break their own rules- no matter how stupid or strict they may be- to cater to your inability to follow those rules.
That's like a boy's club having giveaways, then you parading around you're a girl.
Yes, you're awesome, yes, they're stupid misogynistic jerkfaces who need crotch-kicking, but no, you're the one who decided to join a shit group. They're not responsible for making an exception for you.
They are, however, responsible for if you decide to kick them in the sensitive bits, they're asking for that.
but really I find that such things vanish from my mind within 24 hours, and not everyone thinks to immediately check back on a won giveaway in case there are any such instructions. It seems the OP didn't even get an alert as to having won the giveaway, so there is that too.
With my memory problems, I don't remember things for more than a few seconds.
And so, I don't join groups like that, because it'd be rude of me to expect people to cater to my circumstances, over their listed preferred approach to matters.
The alert thing is what's weird, it's kinda a key part of the story that doesn't make sense, and kinda really determines a lot of what the OP is asking.
I was under the assumption- and worked my first post around that, as I noted within it- that it was a non-SG giveaway.
The OP does not seem to be 'knowingly conflicting' with matters that the mod wishes him to respect at all. [..] It sucks, but it certainly doesn't seem nearly as spiked and ill-meaning as you have portrayed it.
You mean, how I portrayed it in a hypothetical, based on a declared assumption?
I'm sorry, I assumed the OP would be able to assess how much of my interpretations were valid and applicable to them, and derive what gain they could from the Bacon-centric part of my assessment. [That last comment isn't intended to sound snarky, sorry if it does.]
I have difficulty in phrasing things, and I legitimately apologize for any confusion or misinterpretations I may have caused.
I never at any point intended to make an ACTUAL declaration toward either party, but only present abstract perspectives for contemplation and reference, since the OP hadn't given a very clear accounting of the matter to directly reference.
Edit: I can't make sense of your edit :( Not sure if that's on me, or one or the other of us being too tired :P
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Oh, didn't notice the last line you edited in.
Yeah, ha.
Again, I' just have a lot of difficulty getting what I want to say across, it's why I ramble on so much.
I almost never really back a point, I'm more of a 'run the numbers' kind of person :)
Really sorry if I caused you any stress, you seem nice :D
Also, for reference.
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I wanted to whitelist you, but you're already on there. Good job :D <3
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I think they should definitely contact the winner, and not the other way around. Plus, giving a strict 24 hour timer is ridiculous.
EDIT:
Though I have to agree that you DO seem rather disinterested in the groups. Most of them have their own system, and they usually expect members to at least be somewhat involved. When you're in a whole ton of them it doesn't usually end well.
That's just my opinion, anyway.
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Well no, I didn't really. They promoted themselves in another group and said to enter their group for a potential giveaway. But then it's not like they really care about me. They just want more members so they do these cross group promotions to increase their numbers and get people to join. There really is no involvement or interest on either side.
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If you are talking about a giveaway here on steamgifts I think both of you should've attempted contact earlier than that. If you mean those, 'pick a number win a game' things then you failed to follow the rules and it's all on you.
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That's.. a beautifully concise version of my very NOT concise post. :X
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No, nothing here on the site. Just some, comment here and win kinda deal. I only joined the group to win a giveaway that was promoted via another giveaway group on Steam. Maybe I should just stick to SG for my giveaway needs. At least here I know I'll be able to get the key to someone when they win and vice versa.
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It's an RNG drawing:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BaconLounge/discussions/1/530646080861629474/
That post is dated Jul 6, so those details on how it works have been there for months. It clearly says the winner has to add the person running the giveaway to receive their winnings.
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RIght and he added me. I assumed at the time it was because I may have won something, but he didn't answer when I asked why he added me. Then he waited until the time had passed and THEN answered me. Just seems a little sketchy.
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but he did contact him and the guy didn't respond...
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Eh... While I agree that contacting within 24hrs is a bit strenuous a rule since people have lives, from what he said, it was a rule that was stated before you entered. If you entered a giveaway then I would think you would enter with enough desire for whatever is being given away to follow the stated rules to ensure you receive it. Yes, we're all busy with things but to forget about it perhaps told Bacon that you are just not interested enough in what was being given away. He's not wrong to want his things to go to someone who really wants it.
You are right that you DID contact him but you are in the wrong that you didn't even know who he was or why he's adding you. Don't get me wrong... I probably would have done exactly the same thing as you. It's just from Bacon's perspective, it seems ungrateful.
HOWEVER, if this GA was done on SteamGifts and not just a Steam Group forums (which is what I'm assuming was going on?) then he should have given it to you. (EDIT: Ah, I see while I was typing you stated above it wasn't here on SG.)
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Sorry dude. If those were the rules then really that's what it boils down to.
It does suck, but them's the breaks.
I get that it's easy to lose track of groups, specific people and specific giveaways (I have a mind like a sieve for names, heh), but try to consider how you may have sounded to that mod. They're giving away free things and while you may not have meant anything bad by what you said, I'm sure you can see how it would sound like "I don't care about you or your group, I'm just here to take", yknow? I know it's nothing as pointed or nasty as that, but some groups operate far more like acquaintance families with a more social atmosphere. You have to remember that one persons common vocabulary can come across as pretty abrasive to someone you're not familiar with (just as it seems you felt his words were needlessly passive-aggressive).
Ah well. Live and learn, dude.
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Well put.
I did in fact misunderstand your earlier perspective :)
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Looks like he gave you a shout out on their main page lol...
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Right, but how often do you personally read all the updates in every group you are in? I know you are only in 26 of em, but that's still at the very least a half an hour out of your day every day. If you do all that you're a real trooper because I do not have time for that.
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And what a douche. Again, he added me. I said hey, you added me? And then he intentionally waited the 2 weeks so he didn't have to give me anything. Shady as hell, and he sounds pretty infantile to boot.
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Or maybe he was busy and forgot, since he expected you to follow up, as the rules stated you needed to :X
His messaging you later on was really weird, and his phrasing was weird, and you may entirely be right about his intentions.
But he couldn't have (legitimately) 'cheated' you out of the game if you'd followed the rules, and ultimately, that's where the responsibility lies.
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Bedtime soon. Thanks for all your replies. I think what I'm going to do from now on is stick to SG giveaways and stay away from giveaways that are run on Steam Groups. We all like running free stuff, but joining one group after another just gets me on a bunch of groups that I could care less about, and I would never have time to manually click on every group I joined over the course of all that clicking. Thanks for all the feedback whether you told me I was wrong or right. Either way I have a ton of groups to drop out of (not like they're gonna miss me, they'll get more people with their click-bait contests) and I gotta get some sleep. Good luck to all in the SYABH giveaway and have a nice night.
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I think we all learn that lesson, sooner or later :X
Sorry if my posts were a pain to read, or came off overly negative [not intended!] :)
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No man, it's okay. I just gotta stay away from these promo groups that constantly interrupt my games (which is annoying as hell) and stick to giving away stuff and entering giveaways on SG where it's more structured, and not get suckered in to joining more groups than I could ever possibly keep track of.
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i still don't know why people keep joining those groups with "raffles", when you have a solid GA system here.
it just encourages more people to create their groups. i see no point other than "personal glory, i'm the group owner". -.-
btw, this is a bit like calling out imo. it's not like you are trying to give a positive impression on that group.
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I add them because I'm addicted to giveaways. I just gotta take the time to drop out of all the ones that I don't know people in. I have about 130 or so to leave so it's gonna take some time. And yeah, he was a bit rude to me both in chat and on his group page, so yeah it is calling out.
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lots of people disagreeing, but i am with you. if someone is running a giveaway then they should take on the responsibility of actually trying to get it to the winner. It would be one thing if you could tag people in those posts so they get a more prominent notification about it. I think the ones putting all the responsibility on the winner, because its so incredibly easy to just miss something, are just looking for ways to not give out the gifts but keep the appearance that they give out lots of things. also the guy sounds incredibly pissy.
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Totally the way I felt. You are so whitelisted. Okay now I'm really going to bed.
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I joined a steam group that has giveaways and the Mod of the group added me last month. I asked right after he added me why he added me and he waited about 2 weeks to tell me that he added me so that he could give me the prize I won but that I had waited too long and that it was MY responsibility to go to his groups page and look and see if I won the giveaway that I entered. This was our conversation on Steam. Am I in the wrong here or am I right? I just quit the group and blocked him. It's a giveaway so it's not like I entered a raffle and gave anything up. If I had done that then I would probably attempt to contact Steam Support and say he was running a fraudulent raffle. Anyhow.... did I do anything wrong?
Chat log.....
Tuesday, September 29, 2015
ProtagorasEmber: hi, you added me?
ProtagorasEmber: sorry was sleeping
This is what came in today while I was at work...
Bacon Overlord®: You know the reason I added you was that you won a giveaway on my group. Please let me know when you're online. Thanks.
Bacon Overlord®: Actually the deadline was over a week ago. I imagine if you were interested you would have contacted me. Sorry to bother you.
ProtagorasEmber: I did contact you.
ProtagorasEmber: I asked why you added me
ProtagorasEmber: I asked you that the day you added me. I'm in a ton of groups. How else was I supposed to know that I won?
Bacon Overlord®: By checking... saying you're in a ton of groups isn't exactly flattering to either of us
ProtagorasEmber: And sorry i didnt answer right away. I leave my PC on all the time and i was at work
Bacon Overlord®: But, I do put it right in the comments of each giveaway that you have 24 hours to contact me for your keys
ProtagorasEmber: I enter a ton of giveaways. I would never have the time to check every single giveaway i enter to see if i won or not. It's really not a big deal. Did you give it to someone else?
ProtagorasEmber: Or do I still get whatever it was that I won
Bacon Overlord®: I get that you're in a bunch of groups that you're not really that interested in beyond trying to win something... to the point that you don't have any idea even what's being given away or who runs what groups.... but, that's not winning me over, sorry. When I contacted you I didn't realize it' had been so long since you won. Yes, the games were already redistributed.
ProtagorasEmber: I contacted you on 9/29. Do you really think that people are going to be glued to your group checking who won every single giveaway that you make? No. THey have lives. It's your responsibility to contact people. You added me on 9/29 and I IMMEDIATELY asked you why you added me. If that's how you run your group then I dont really have any desire to remain a part of it, or keep you on my friends list. Thanks and have fun running your sketchy group.
The name of the group is Bacon something lounge. Just let me know if you think I'm in the wrong or if it is the group mod's responsibility to get in touch with me. He added me, but then like I said, waited 2 weeks to respond when I asked him why.
Here's a GA for Sir, You are Being Hunted (LVL 1+) for reading through all that....
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/fFUFs/sir-you-are-being-hunted
Thanks!
EDIT: 1:40 AM.... Only other thing I'll say on the matter before I really do go to bed. Do all the group mods who run cross-group promotions really expect people who've joined their group SOLELY to enter the giveaway that they used to promote their group to go back through and check all the groups they've entered to see if they won something? Or are they doing this to increase their group numbers and they don't really care about getting prizes to people once they've joined the group. If Bacon hadn't added me in the first place I never would have known that I won and then lost the giveaway and he'd still have all the members that he enticed via his cross-group promotion with no complaints. I'm in over 150 groups (I'm in the process of leaving them now) because of these cross group promotions. How would I ever have the time to check them all, or even remember all of what I entered when I was enticed to join these groups.
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