Should blacklisted users be able to win giveaways if they were blacklisted after entering?
I don't know... seems like it could get used to go against the purpose of some giveaways.
By that, I mean:
- The creator creates a giveaway.
- Users enter the giveaway.
- Creator goes through the entries, filters out whoever they don't want to enter the giveaway, leaving only a few friends.
- Pretty much a whitelist giveaway but it isn't.
However, I admit I really can't see how that could be a bad thing, actually...
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You could use it to shake people down: threaten to blacklist anybody who doesn't do something specific, etc.. In some cases that might actually be great, but some people would abuse it.
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if he was not on blacklist when he aplyed he should have a chance to win
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Why should users who show utter disregard for the giveaway creator requests, be allowed to win after being blacklisted for it?
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now i see :)) i just think you are bored :)) and need to pick a fight, some people just wanna say thx :)), some wanna joke alitle, some... just wanna troll, you just want a clean givaway :)) 0% chances :))
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from the profile and the games he plays i incline to think he is a kid no older then 14 but i would say he is 8-10.. so what could you expect from him... i see that he only has recived games, so i don;t think you should be mad at him for this reason he sayd hy and thx...
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Well, now that you put it this way, you may have a point. I guess instead of me complaining about people writing "ty" (etc) there should be a way to filter out notifications for such comments. After all, it's the notification overload that bothers me.
BTW, whitelisted for the sensible comment.
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Don't worry about the first guy, suspended for 3 weeks xD
Also, while I don't want to treat that giveaway as it was nothing, but it's just a 2P game that was in numerous bundles, it's not like it's such a waste to someone win it while not reading the description. If this annoys you so much, you can make a few "bait" giveaways, blacklist the people that couldn't read it, and then make the main giveaways. Or whatelse. :) While I think you're right with your topic' goal, I'm sure you also see now based on jbondguy007's first comment why this feature couldn't and shouldn't ever implemented. For every baaad people who don't read description there are at least the same amount of folks who would cheat the heck out of that system.
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Because those are the rules. You don't have to like them but it won't change the fact that that's how it is.
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They're just using scripts to comment and enter, so no regard or disregard either way. Looks like one's even an alt account that just enters for cards - I agree it sucks, just try and weed them out with junk before doing a meaningful giveaway I suppose.
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And this is why I no longer post a thank you in a giveaway because the prevailing theory is that EVERYONE that says thanks in a giveaway is just scripting to enter giveaways. Just like anyone that enters a giveaway within 10secs of posting is a bot, and that anyone who has won more than they gave is a the lowest scum of the earth.
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You look at the total comments a user has made, and how long they've been using SG. Not rocket science for the most part.
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Are you in any way familiar with those add-ons to SG that allow people to automatically enter any giveaway from the front page and posts a pre-made message like "thank you"
From the look of their profiles I'm quite sure those people, that didn't post anything meaningful to your giveaway, would ever notice they were blacklisted.
To be honest don't ever expect anything meaningful from a multiple times bundled, public, flash, cheap game, with mostly negative feedback - giveaway. Just throw those games at them and forget. If still something good comes from it put those guys to your whitelist. But don't even bother writing a description for such a giveaway. I guess it was only one person that read it (before the GA ended ;)
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If I recall correctly you can get custom rules approved by mods for non-public GAs and ask for a reroll in case users don't abide by them. And I agree, scripts suck.
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I think that once you have entered, you shouldn't be removed.
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As I wrote above, why should users who show utter disregard for the giveaway creator requests, be allowed to win after being blacklisted for it?
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I like seeing replies on my give aways, what's it take a minute or two to read them?... I seriously doubt anyone on a game site is so busy they don't have a few mins to read.
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I definitely read descriptions and don't comment if the maker doesn't want me to, but blacklisting someone for commenting and saying thanks? That seems a bit rude and unfair to me. What if some people still want to joke around with thank you or sincerely Thank you? They are denied their right to thank someone for the game?
Well best thing to do is not thank those kind of people ever, ever at all. If that's what they want anyway.
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Well yeah, there is the question of bots, But I usually spot those if they make the same comment in all 3 of my giveaways.
I still think it's not ok to blacklist people just because they didn't obey your demands, whe have this rule because of that:
You cannot ask users to perform any special action in order for their entry to be considered valid.But we can just agree to disagree. :)
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Well, maybe it a way to find the bots, but far away from perfect way. For example many people (including me sometimes) non visit steamgifts too often, and has 300 point to spend. So they check the list of giveaways and open 20-30 tabs and just copy the comment. This way you could have 20 giveaways enetered with the same comment in 1-5 minutes. And still not using bot. And yes, I agree that everyone should read description (I try to do it always) but sometimes you don't have enough time. I use steamgifts on tablet and for example I see 3 nice giveaways. I want to enter them, but if I for example have to leave home in one minute I don't have a chance to read description. Of course I could enter without commenting, but I could also write quick thank you. In my opinion blcklisting for this is just exaggeration and stupid.
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I think you misunderstood. I completely agree with you! I'm not the one so eager to blacklist people, but the OP here, (who even wants that rule to apply to entered giveaways, as a way of kicking people out).
This is exactly what I am talking about as well. Innocent people like you will get blacklisted for not having the time to read someones requests/descriptions, but wanting to thank giveaway creators! :(
However I use this method to find bots, because it's literally the same comment "Thx" in a span of 5 seconds on 3 giveaways. Nobody can enter and comment that quickly. And it only happened once btw. Op here, (and some of those supporting him) blacklist anyone who comments Thx or Thanks.
I guess the best way to go is to not comment on any public giveaways, but just the ones you really want (and make a longer comment on them), and private and group giveaways.
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Yes, maybe this solution. But some people are also blacklisting for no commenting, so this solution is not perfect :)
Seriously I always try to read every single description, but if I have for example 5 tabs opened and my wife calling me (or my baby is crying) I could imagine that I messed something (put comment in wrong tab or not put at all) if I want to enter giveaway which ends in several minutes. I'm only human, I made a mistakes and I really think that blacklisting for this has no sense.
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I completely agree friend, however it seems we are in minority.
I understand how you feel (juggling things at the same time is not always easy) so to make you feel better have a spot on my WL. :)
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That's nice. Thank you :) I also added you on my wishlist. I never used it, but I think that day will come soon as my whitelist is growing.
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I disagree. I think you blacklist me for this, I don't use any bots. And I think this is very bad way to find a bot. Please read my post below (and sorry for my english). It's a matter of time (not everybody, but I mean myself as an example). I don't have too much time, but I made a quick look at giveaways. I enter them, but still want to thank you creators. And then If I don't read description I finish on blacklist. For me - big exaggeration. This is no lack of respect, it could be many other reasons.
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that's no excuse.
you are saying you don't have time to read what a user wrote in a giveaway description, where he/she spent money to gift to a random person in this site.
that's 100% rude.
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Ok, it's you right to think this way. But it still has nothing to do with bots.
Additionally, If I create a giveaway I don't really care if someone thanks or not. For me everyone is equal (sorry if I use wrong word), and whoever has the time to write an essay as a thank you and whoever has only 2 minutes a day on steamgifts (because maybe he work 14 hours/day or have 10 children). You know It's a kind of being generous. If you really are, then you do not expect anything in return.I know that not everyone is perfect, there are bots of just assholes but I never blacklist anyone for nothing (not reading description is nothing for me). But it's only my opinion.
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But here it's not about writing an essay compared to writing "thanks", but rather just taking a quick glance at the GA description as you enter the GA versus not doing it.
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I know, it was just an example. And I agree with you, if someone put big "No thanks please" and other ignores that (but as I see usually it works). But sometimes some people writes an essays in description and I really understand those who don't have time enough to read 20 different descriptions in 20 giveaways. You know, people do not read even contracts signed in the bank or at the office, let alone here. I know that maybe this could be rude for others, but for me blacklisting for this doesn't make any sense and this is a big exaggeration. I understand blacklisting cheaters, regifters, scammers or assholes. But "no thankers" or those who always says "thanks" not. But it's only my opinion.
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In the case of OP's GA, the instructions are clearly marked in BOLD, so you would not have to read a 20 line post to get to the important bit, you could just take a quick glance at the description to know that the OP don't want any generic thanks messages. Not being willing to just take a quick glance at the description does seem rather rude to me.
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Yes I know. Writing this, I did not mean OP, but it generally. In OPs giveaways I agree with you, but still thinking that blacklisting for this it is not right. Everyone makes mistakes, or have own reasons and this reason does not seem to me to be sufficient.
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that's ok, i understand what you say.
the thing is some people exploit the system and it really annoys some of us.
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Yup I think you blacklisted me this morning because I entered three or four of your giveaways and posted similar messages all very fast, That doesn't mean I use a bot, lol I'm not even using sg++ or whatever name has the last version, which should start using to add tags again.
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Which demands??? You asked to not post on those giveaways???? Because I read all the giveaway descriptions.
BTW It's OK to copy paste the description on all the giveaways and you pretend the comments are different?, but if the answer seems to you very similar isn't ok??? Great!
Fun fact is I noticed when I wanted to leave one of them because I purchased the game.
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http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/8wvyz/original-war
Don't write Thanks please; do it only if you win :)
description isn't clear enough?
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lol then I assume I entered too fast this morning. Opened too much tabs on a hurry attending my aunt.
At least didn't on Pac Man and Top Hat yesterday more calm :D (I hope so)
Anyway I apology!
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you don't seem to understand why he blacklists people...
if the giveaway description says:
READ THIS --- DON'T POST THANKS - DON'T POST THANKS - DON'T POST THANKS --- READ THIS
and people go ahead and say THANKS FOR THE GA!, there's obviously an issue:
1 - they didn't even open the ga (entering with those scripts that have an "enter" button)
2 - they didn't care to read the description (blind?)
3 - they are using a bot to enter GAs (nice nice!)
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Well apparently anyone who doesn't want to be dictated by someone elses ridicules rules (that are not the sites/SG rules btw), is either blind or a fool and should be blacklisted / banned?
While at the same time the FAQ says this:
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you fail to see the issue here. people using bots and scripts to quickly enter giveaways are cheating the system.
these "don't say thanks" GAs are traps for them, and they fall every single time.
and noone is breaking sg rules here by blacklisting those cheaters. they can enter THAT giveaway, win the game, but they will be blacklisted.
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It's not a rule, it's a request, and I don't think it's unfair or abusive to blacklist anyone that cannot comply with such a simple request from someone who is giving them the opportunity to win a free game (even though I've never done this myself and never will).
If someone choose not to go along with the request, that's fine, but then they shouldn't complain about being blacklisted.
There is no problem with the guideline you pointed out since the entry is still valid if you blacklist an user after they enter. But the suggestion OP made would indeed be in contradiction with this rule.
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If it's such a simple request as "Don't write "Thanks"", and the request is clearly marked as such (in this case, it's even in bold), then I do think it's quite rude of the person not complying with the request. I don't blacklist people for not complying with my request, but I can absolutely see why someone else would want to blacklist someone they consider to be rude. All it would take for the person entering the GA would be a quick glance at the description.
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I feel sorry for those who cannot read English very well
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I think that blacklisting people for saying "thank you" which is just common curtsy, is a dick move. Ask for people to do a specific thing, sure! But banning people for saying thank you? That is low...
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They are blacklisting people for not reading the description. I mean, you're okay with special conditions, that are stated in the description, but not with the "please don't say thank you, thanks or ty in generic way" rule that's stated... in the description?
Also, just to soothe your nerves a little: they blacklist only for the most, most generic answers. Just simply thow in the game's name, the creator's name, or check his Steam profile and make a commentary about his lastly played game. You will spend 10-40 seconds on it, depending which method you choose and it instantly makes clear that you're not a bot. They are fighting against bots /spammer scripters, not general courtesy.
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It's because your requests arent valid limitations on their chance to win. All they have to do is enter.
"you cannot ask users to perform any special action in order for their entry to be considered valid"
You can prevent them from entering your future giveaways and that is your prerogative. But they dont HAVE to follow anything you say when they enter. It's definitely impolite, but that is their prerogative.
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Blacklist em and move on. Some people just love to make a mountain out of a molehill.
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I see your point but unfortunatelly you can't have rules in public giveaways. A way around would be making rules but that means you'd be forced to make private giveaways.
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- With publics, understand some people won't read. Hell, it happens with privates as well. Get used to it. You could do a L10 and you would still get that. There are also users that just use Auto Thanks scripts.
- Your suggestion will never happen, because that would be used to cheat. Make a giveaway, blacklist everyone but your friend, they get a gift and you get CV.
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About cheating, this shouldn't be the case if every blacklisted user gets removed from the entrants list. I think you need at least 7 entrants to get CV. Also, not to mention the amount of work required to blacklist all those users (public giveaways tend to have hundreds of entrants).
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Even suspended members stay in the entry count. Black list won't change that.
Private, link to forum, watch less than 1000 members enter.
Like I said, IT ISN'T HAPPENING.
Deal with it. People who don't read stuff might suck, but that doesn't mean you should get to remove their entry.
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I think this leaves the door open for abuse and misuse of the blacklist,i think once someone enter they should have the same chance as anyone else as they earned the right to be in it before they where blacklisted.
Should blacklisted users be able to win giveaways if they were blacklisted after entering?
You make a thread then make a poll to see what people say but everyone that is not for it you feel the need question there response with this
As I wrote above, why should users who show utter disregard for the giveaway creator requests, be allowed to win after being blacklisted for it?
i have saved you the trouble of pasting it on mine...
I think it is fine the way it is,then again i already think to many use it for the wrong reason but that just how i feel they are right to do it as they are not breaking rules in what they do.
Anyhow as i said earlier if they earned the right to be in it before they where blacklisted i think they should have the same chance as everyone else,i do get why you said what you did though and why you feel that way this is just how i feel,your still free to want it your way
Also if you made any special rules then they should not get blacklisted because they ignore them i guess is fine but they can not be enforced for a re-roll and well imo ..doing that is stupid but i guess the creator still has the right to do so.
I do a GA because i want to give back,not because i care if they say thanks or saying something useful or not useful...i just over all enjoy giving when i can
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No, that would lead to abuse, like people enforcing their own rules on giveaways. It would go in contradiction with this rule :
You cannot ask users to perform any special action in order for their entry to be considered valid, such as liking a Facebook page, or following a Twitter account.
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ty
did i win a prize? :3
anyway, i would say no. it can be abused. blacklist after they won the game.
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If you make a public giveaway, expect the public to enter. That includes people who don't read giveaway descriptions, unfortunately. :) I think trying to retroactively add those people to your blacklist is a bit petty, really. :)
One thing you can do, first make a giveaway for something cheap that few people own. Write some instructions in the description, and blacklist everyone who ignores it. Then, after that giveaway ends, make your giveaways for the good things you really wanted to give away.
For example: http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/guOPL/titanfall-the-final-hours
It works, but it's not fun to blacklist that many people. You might be surprised to discover how many people are using scripts to enter giveaways, and how many different excuses they give to explain it. :)
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The booby-trapped giveaway is a great idea and some of the comments (ones without coconuts) are hilarious. Seems like a lot of work though, so I'll just piggyback on the one you created, even if it's a bit dated and some of the users/bots may have since reformed :-)
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If you like idea of booby-trapped GA's you can try to create 2 GA for the same game. One of them hidden, link posted in description of the first one. Then compare entries xD
Like this one :3
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/iXbtT/blades-of-time-limited-edition
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I do this all the time :) Isn't it disappointing to see how many people don't read descriptions though?
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I've missed that one and now no one will ever know if I do or do not have a lovely bunch of coconuts :(
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Are you really complaining about people saying "Thank You" on giveaways?
I swear, people will cry about anything these days.
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If that's the worst thing that happens to you today, you're doing alright.
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he's complaining about people that doesn't read GA descriptions. you know, those things the creator puts for a reason.
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Yeah, I have bigger things to worry about than people saying thanks for something on a GA site. If the creator requests it, I won't comment, but I also won't condemn those who do. That's just me, though.
Anyway, since I haven't seen this suggested yet -- a better solution would be to separate notifications between giveaways and forum posts, and allow users to turn one/both off or on as they wish. There's no way in hell I could blacklist someone for saying thanks, even if I had asked them not to. ;)
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yeah that would be nice. or have nested notifications, like:
topic #1: 5 replies
topic #2: 12 replies
etc.
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Exactly! That's even better than my suggestion, and I'm pretty sure either/both wouldn't be all that hard to implement. It would solve at least some of the problems between people who create a lot of giveaways getting a ton of notifications, and those compulsive "thankers" out there.
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There's no way in hell I could blacklist someone for saying thanks, even if I had asked them not to. ;)
The difficulty there comes in trying to know which thanks is a someone and which is a somebot. So I can understand to some degree why creators get creative with ways to try and filter the real human entries.
As to the OP suggestion, I can see the point but it would be too open to misuse I think.
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I don't mind the notification overload personally, if it's an interesting comment. If it's just some bot spamming thanks or someone not even bothering to read the description, it makes me feel like the entrant doesn't really care about the game. I suppose it's not a big deal, but hey, blacklisting is an individual prerogative and everyone has the right to maintain their own blacklist/whitelist for the reasons they choose.
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+1 I for one am happy to receive Thank you messages. Of course I sometimes write that they could talk about a certain topic "Like a favourite game", just to change things up. People whose opinions I like will often even get whitelisted.
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There are more people on this site who win games than give them away, so these poll results are always going to be skewed :3.
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I refuse to vote for either party. Dan Quayle it is!
I can sympathize with this, but on the other hand, I don't think it's uber important. I occasionally did whitelist/blacklist comment giveaways, and the only time I would care about this is when someone from the blacklist won and it was awkward. I suppose that could be interpreted as a yes, but awkward isn't necessarily enough to warrant changing anything.
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It would be great to get through a 24 hour period on this site without there being yet another post about blacklists/whitelists. I thought that it was a bad idea to have them to begin with and even said so back when the V2 site was still being tested. I would have loved to have been proven wrong but it's obvious that the addition of the feature is doing exactly as I had thought it would. Unfortunately because of the feature the general attitude of the users on this site has shifted. Now everyone seems more intent on catching rule breakers and making requests (sometimes unreasonable) in their giveaways so they can increase the sizes of their blacklists rather than participate in the spirit of giving and receiving gifts and having fun.
A solution to this problem would be to have an option that turns off reply the notifications in giveaways. This has been suggested several times since the site was upgraded and I also have noticed it addressed in this thread by a few as well. There would be far fewer of these topics if this feature was implemented.
IMO an even better solution would be to get rid of the blacklist/whitelist feature and go back to the way it used to be.
BTW, to the asshole who blacklisted me because I said "thank you" in the giveaway AFTER I won the game from you and redeemed the key, if I had a way to return the game I would. He actually added me on Steam to cuss me out about it! Some nerve, huh?
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Well put! I agree 100% with every point you make.
Blacklisting/whitelisting adds a pick and choose element that, to me at least, destroys the spirit of giving. I will never blacklist for saying thank you - that just seems rude to me, to the point of being condescending. I'm just happy that there are still people in the world that say thank you at all. It makes me smile whenever I get notifications that someone has thanked me for a giveaway. I can't afford to give away nearly as much as I'd like, but I'm certainly glad some people appreciate it.
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I disagree. Whitelist is a great feature. Before that one had to do a private group in Steam and invite people and go through all that hassle. Now I can simply add them on the site and things go smoothly.
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I disagree. Spirit of giving does not mean that we are giving to all people that existed in the world. There are people we don't agree upon, and we don't wish to give anything to them. Should I refrain from giving then? People have different pressure points, thus we can't generalize on what is good and what is not. Some people will rave if their parents is insulted, some will not. For some people it may be races, religions, academic achievements, nationalities, etc. While others think they are not offending me, it is within my right to feel offended, thus not giving to the said person is a good idea.
For some people saying thank you without gratitude is fine, some will see it as rude. There is nothing wrong or right about this. It could be a personal thing, it could be a culture thing, but it could not be enforced.
Whitelist, on the other hand, is good to reward some players who you think has been good to you. We have to admit, for our allies and friends, we would like to give more, thus the whitelist feature is there, so you could pick players who you like, and reward them appropriately.
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If someone is on your blacklist and he wins, then simply don't send the gift. Problem solved.
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And receive suspension for not delivering gift to the winner? Bad idea.
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Reroll requires a valid reason, I think. "I don't like the user" is not a valid reason. This from the experience of having called some rerolls in the past.
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There is actually a choice for "Inappriopriate behaviour". If someone is rude to you and you don't belong to a group that tolerates that, you could ask for them to be rerolled (I belong to a group Heretical Giveaways where you are supposed to say screw you instead of thank you).
Otherwise, if you blacklisted someone because you don't like his avatar or because you are jelly of how much he won, then you shouldn't be making giveaways at all.
Granted, it probably would require some work to prove that the guy is an ass and not always people keep their steam conversation saved.
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Inappriopriate behaviour can be a valid reason but the original discussion was about blacklisted person winning a giveaway that would then be rerolled. Many of the reasons why people add others to the list are not good for rerolling, hence my statement that is is not valid reason simply because you do not like the user. But I think we are on the same page here.
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I don't understand why people hate being thanked. I like it, even if they are using auto-thanks script.
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The auto-script is annoying because it lacks the thing it claims to have - gratitude. It's the obviously fake laugh/smiley of steamgfits.
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Heeeey you're here! I was wondering where you disappeared to for 24 hrs! O.o
Saw you accepted the request and will send you the gift right away :D
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I think it's because they hate to have an overload of notifications
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I'm more of a "whatever the creator wants" type of a person and I'll refrain from thanking if the creator says so (fine, sometimes I say something even then but only if I know the person or have something meaningful to say, other than just a plain thank you).
I hope that others are willing to show the same respect for me. If I kindly ask not to get "spammed" with plain "thx" or "ty" or stuff like that I like to see it being followed.
Why? Well, I know that the person who couldn't take the time to read the description doesn't really mean what he said with that "thx" and it will therefore mean nothing to me other than crowding my inbox and making it tiring to go through it to find the sincere ones...
On the other hand, any sincere comment ( generally more than 10 letters xD) is very much appreciated.
I generally assume that's what others feel like and if there's no instruction on what the creator wants I'll either write nothing if I don't really have something important to say or say what's on my mind if I think the creator might appreciate it.
Saying thank you after winning is a must in my book and plain rude not to do.
As for the blacklist after the GA began=not being able to win.. I'm pretty sure that nothing can be done about it without some serious scripting and that we won't be seeing that, whether or not we want it to happen.
I'm not taking a stand for either of the options as I haven't really thought it through, just to be clear :)
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I really thought this said "Nah, no ham done," I think I need to quit eating pork but seriously BACON!!!
Also kitty bacon
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The options in the poll are not correct. Yes and no do not match with the question and the rest of the answer.
I feel that the entry is valid disregarding what happens after it. The only exception to this is the winner getting banned. I'll try to honor the wishes of the gifter. As I personally like to leave a thank you note for each giveaway, those giveaways that specifically ask to not to are a bit bummer but I'll simply skip them.
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Special snowflake syndrome detected, start a tumblr about it.
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This. How much more stuff do you want to open about you blacklisting people.
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I have to say when someone who has a ratio of 21:0(won:gifted) and they enter every give away i'm very tempted to black list them. I'd rather people like that didn't win and would like to be able to remove them from any give away I run.
I know I could run the giveaways at level 1 and stop that from happening but as I won my gifts at level 0 i feel it's only fair to give others the same chance I got. Some people are here purely to take and give nothing back those are the people who IMHO you should be able to Blacklist or remove from a giveaway and have them not be able to win any current giveaway you have running.
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From another standpoint, we must also think about the person we have "kicked" from the GA. Do they lose their points? What happens if they have maximum points? Do their points get refunded? While points do regenerate fairly quickly, it is unfair to let people spend points on your game, and then kick them out without refunding them. Like in service industry, if you are unwilling to service a certain customer, you refrain them for paying and receiving your services, or on condition that they have paid you could refund their payment, but at no time we should get money from them, and then refuses to produce the aforementioned service.
While the normal guys will not blacklist people out of the blue, there are people who will do it for trolling purposes. Another type of abuse is that the GA creator creates a GA for public, then blacklists people so that in the end only a few of the entrants existed, which may includes his cohorts. I personally though think this will not be a problem, because if I wanted to truly cheat the system, I could just create a whitelist of 6 person, or a group of my friends that are more than 5 to trade merrily.
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I would consider that by entering a group, you agree to follow its rules and if you break the rules, you lose the privileges associated to that group. With blacklists, there is no such an agreement as they are always one sided decisions.
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Entries are not removed when someone is kicked from a group, so they can remove them themselves and retrieve their points.
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Well, what I meant is not kicked by the group, but kicked from the GA like the OP is discussing. It is a mistype on my part, sorry.
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Im not sure if i understood correctly, but you actually wanted to Blacklist users who didnt "Thank You" good enough?
Thats like droppin a coin for a Bum, then telling him if u arent gratefull enough u aint gettin a dime from me!You have a dark sense of humour, my man.Ill give this idea a shot next time my little brother has a cake day, if he aint gratefull enough that will be his last cake day!
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No, OP want's to blacklist people who are rude enough as to not be able to take a moment out of their time to take a quick glance at the GA description.
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And whats said in description is just ..weird?Its stating I don't need your basic "Thank you"
Yes, I am aware that there are scripts and whatnot.
Call me old fashioned but u cant judge how grateful of a person he is based on 3 letters, what i'm saying is, sometimes i don't even write thanks, sometimes i go with thx etc ,but that doesn't mean i'm ungrateful for a chance to win.Therefore defining 10+letters as more grateful than "THX" isn't really that fair, not to mention Blacklisting people for their lack of time and not being able to go through every GA's description.
I dunno, im probably wrong.I don't know how things work around here and all that jazz.
Simply stating my opinion on the matter and prolly gettin blacklisted way more than "XXX"
But hey, if you think about it all those free bumps could have been avoided with some more love towards each other!
Love=Less Bumps
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I think you're missing the point, it's not about writing 3 or 10 or 50 letters in your replies, it's about just taking a quick glance at the GA description and seeing that you should not write anything at all. Not being willing to just take a quick glance at the GA description and seeing that the person who is giving away the game does not want to receive a lot of generic thanks messages, that says a lot more about a person than a 3 or 10 or 50 letter "thanks" message.
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Nah dude, im gettin the poit.But if you dont want people thanking you you shouldnt create a giveaway and there wouldnt be a problem to begin with :D , another solution would be being able to turn off comments for giveaways.
That way we wont get those pesky generic peasant "Thanks"
:)
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So you're basically saying that I should never give anyone here any games? That's a terrible solution
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Im saying if you dont like people thanking you then gifting might get a lot more problematic for you!
I thought you stood for reading WHOLE text before commenting? :D
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I did read the entire message.
Nah dude, im gettin the poit But if you dont want people thanking you you shouldnt create a giveaway and there wouldnt be a problem to begin with
Here you said that I should not create giveaways.
another solution would be being able to turn off comments for giveaways.
You can filter by forum or GA replies, but this does not solve the problem, as people do write relevant things in GAs. Not always, but it happens.
That way we wont get those pesky generic peasant "Thanks"
Well, I don't really have a comment to this one, and it does not really change anything in this context.
So I did read your entire post, but it all boiled down to your solution being me not giving away games.
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You should not give games away IF you dislike generic comments........keyword being IF but i guess it isnt obvious enough.
Why didnt you comment about 3rd?
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You should not give games away IF you dislike generic comments
And BECAUSE I dislike generic "Thanks" flooding my message feed, I should not give away games, right? I thought it was obvious that I was one of those that disliked generic thanks messages.
Why didnt you comment about 3rd?
Because there really was nothing to comment on, I just wanted to show that I had read your entire post.
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The irony :) I dislike generic messages flooding my messages feed.Oh noes 1st world problems.
Meanwhile lets spend some time on forums, hopefully there wont be any pesky TNX generic messages.
Btw, TNX for replying!
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Now you're just being intentionally rude, probably because you don't actually have anything meaningful to say in return. Going back to your wrote earlier:
Call me old fashioned but u cant judge how grateful of a person he is based on 3 letters
This does not say how grateful you are, but I would hazard to guess that it says something about how you are.
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I wasn't trying to be rude, I just pointed out the irony in your statement and if you find irony in your statement rude, im sorry but that's on you!
But ill make an example so you can understand that i'm not trying to argue you i'm just trying to show a bigger picture behind whole argument.
Gifter X
Cake day kid Y
X gives present on Y's special day and tells him "Don't you dare saying simple thanks and moving on to next gifter, treat me better as other gifters and show me some respect with fancy way of saying thanks"
Since it's in most humans logic to thank the gifter,kid might consider this act as sign of disrespect of his appreciation.
So now we have 2 sides showing disrespect based on requirments they made one way or another.Its just the human way.
If someone tells me i dont need your puny thanks, think of better way to thank me.I will immidiately take it as a sign of disrespect toward me.And if some upon receiving gift pay no attention to requirments i made, then i will also feel disrespected.
I hope now you can understand my reasoning behind it, i wasnt trying to be mean and if i offended you i am sorry.
I also understand and agree that it's a good way to handle scripters;)
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I wasn't trying to be rude, I just pointed out the irony in your statement and if you find irony in your statement rude, im sorry but that's on you!
Well, there has not been a flood of generic messages flooding either of our message feeds through the forum, so the two situations don't equate. That's why your reply sounded rude.
X gives present on Y's special day and tells him "Don't you dare saying simple thanks and moving on to next gifter, treat me better as other gifters and show me some respect with fancy way of saying thanks"
But this is a different scenario than that which we were talking about. Neither me, nor the OP, asked for anyone to go out of their way to do something special, what we simply asked for was for people to not write a bunch of generic replies, i.e. it would be less work for the person entering the GA to actually not write thanks. And considering a long list of generic thanks messages can actually be a hassle for the gift giver, in particular if you're hosting a large bunch of giveaways at once.
A closer analogy would be if you're handing out gifts to the poor. There is a long line, yet everyone feels the need to shake your hand and say thanks, thus effectively making your lifer harder than if you could just keep the line going and people did not have to stop and do something that takes extra time.
We seem to be talking about two entirely different things here. I'm talking about people respecting someones wish to not have a long list of "thanks" messages, you're talking about someone wishing to have a lot of fancy messages.
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But the OP asked for fancy messages didnt.he?
like giving gifts to poor people analogy.You want it to be less time consuming therefore ask for not thanking, but at the same time you you are completely fine if the participant throw in some extra sentences, jokes or gifs?
If you dont want thank you's then simply state you dont want participants thanking you in any kind of way.
So asking for some interesting thank you's or something else that is not usual doesn't really make situation OKAY!
Don't you agree?
This whole statement goes for your ''poor people'' analogy, keep that in mind.
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But the OP asked for fancy messages didnt.he?
No, what OP complained about was people who ignored his wish for "no generic thanks messages", and wanted to be able to blacklist those who ignored them so that they would not be able to win the ga. If you check the examples that the OP posted, they say "Please DO NOT add any comments unless you consider what you have to say to be interesting, insightful or helpful."
Followed by a quick explanation of what would get someone blacklisted "Thanks", "ty", "First!" etc -> will most likely get you blacklisted (no issues of course with saying thanks after winning)"
Then a comment about not posting "• No comment -> no action from my side"
And finally instructions on how to get whitelisted, which would require you to do a bit more than just enter "• Interesting, insightful or helpful comment (and an otherwise good profile) -> will get you whitelisted". And it's finally here that you see the OP asking for something special, if you're willing to go beyond the call of duty, you might be whitelisted, but if you just want to join the GA, just don't keep posting the same generic messages.
You want it to be less time consuming therefore ask for not thanking, but at the same time you you are completely fine if the participant throw in some extra sentences, jokes or gifs?
The poor people analogy should not be taken any further than people wasting my time in ways that I ask them not to. But if you want to continue it:
Say that every 50 or so person standing in line were to tell a really good joke that put a smile on my face, I would be fine with that. If everyone told a variant on the joke (changing the nun to a monk or the pope, while still telling the same basic joke about how they slipped on a banana), I would not be fine with that. Long lists of "thx", "Thanks", "tnks" and so on are these repeated jokes about the religious man slipping on a banana, while the odd really funny joke that 1 in 50 persons in line tell are the funny cat gifs that some people post. But if I were to set up a sign that said "don't talk to the person handing out gifts at all, he is in a hurry", then I would not appreciate the odd funny joke.
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Exactly the point i was making...if you put out a sign "Please dont talk to man handing out gifts,he is in a hurry" you shouldnt put another sign next to it stating "unless you can tell something interesting,then he will have all the time in a world".
Which sounds kinda amusing to me :)
Thing is dont tell people not to thank you when you are being the one handing out gifts because thats same level of disrespect as writing "TNX etc. etc." after being told not you.I bet 10 bucks, poeple on giveaway didnt say tnx cuz they had a script, they said tnx because somebody told NOT to :) (not all, but most of em')
That is basic psychology..
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Exactly the point i was making...if you put out a sign "Please dont talk to man handing out gifts,he is in a hurry" you shouldnt put another sign next to it stating "unless you can tell something interesting,then he will have all the time in a world".
But that's not really the case with GAs. The gift giver is asking people to not do something that wastes his/her time because he/she does not want to deal with a certain kind of nigh identical posts. And no-one put a sign next to the "no thanks" sign saying "no cute cat gifs", they just had the "no thanks" sign. So why not respect the "no thanks" sign. If cat gifs becomes a problem, then a "no cat gifs" sign will also be erected.
Thing is dont tell people not to thank you when you are being the one handing out gifts because thats same level of disrespect as writing "TNX etc. etc." after being told not you.I bet 10 bucks, poeple on giveaway didnt say tnx cuz they had a script, they said tnx because somebody told NOT to :)
So you're saying that most people who write "TNX" when asked not to do so are being intentionally rude to the person who asks them not to do so? That would be a prime ground for blacklisting to me. (Your sentence got a bit wonky there, but I think that's what you were saying).
And how is it rude to ask someone to not spam your inbox with nigh identical messages?
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By that logic we will get to point where nobody will thank GA's creator(sooner or later)and we will go back and forth with all this "TNX" stuff.
Are you gona blacklist every single person who was rude to you because your actions created the whole situation? :D:D
So basically OP was in a hurry .He didnt have time, i can understand.Yet he would have time to blacklist each participant who said ''tnx''.Im sure OP had good intentions and reasoning behind that was really practical,which is great.
But try different perspective, im participating in GA, i see "No need for thank you's'' in description, Is my appreciation not good enough for him?Okay i better follow the rules or i will get blacklisted.But that sounds like searching for reason to blacklist someone on purpose......
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By that logic we will get to point where nobody will thank GA's creator(sooner or later)and we will go back and forth with all this "TNX" stuff.
No, with my logic we would get to the point where nobody thanks the GA creators that asks not to be thanked.
Are you gona blacklist every single person who was rude to you because your actions created the whole situation? :D:D
So basically OP was in a hurry .He didnt have time, i can understand.Yet he would have time to blacklist each participant who said ''tnx''.Im sure OP had good intentions and reasoning behind that was really practical,which is great.
Now you're really twisting the situation. Here you have someone doing something nice, but asks for a very small thing in return (something that does not require any extra work).
If we follow your logic here: Let's say that I have a store, and someone decides to shoplift. Had I not had the store, then the person would not have been able to shoplift. Am I then to blame for the person shoplifting and should I then not report it?
See where your line of reasoning falls flat here?
But try different perspective, im participating in GA, i see "No need for thank you's'' in description, Is my appreciation not good enough for him?Okay i better follow the rules or i will get blacklisted.But that sounds like searching for reason to blacklist someone on purpose......
If you're being rude and disrespecting the wishes of the GA creator, then your way of showing "appreciation" is going to be interpreted like the polar opposite, like you're not respecting the GA creator enough to respect his or her small wish to not get spammed with generic "thanks" messages.
And it might well be so that the gift giver wants to be able to give away more games, and want to blacklist the people who are making it a less pleasant experience for him/her.
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By your logic there is only 3 options
1Say thanks(viva la revolucion)
2Do nothing
3Say somethin' special (get whitelisted)
So basic idea is if you don't want to be blacklisted, do not thank or comment at all.
2nd choice is optimal because we need to take into consideration the fact that participant might be in a hurry aswell, not only OP
All comes down to how spoiled each person is or isn't .And best option might be not to participate in GA's like that in general and avoid similar arguments.
Also thanks for this awesome debate, we had quite a discussion over here.I have to apologize for my grammar, since English isn't my native language. :) Best of luck to you!
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By your logic there is only 3 options
There are only the 3 options in the GAs created by the OP. The things I posted above were not "general" rules, they were the "rules" (or rather requests with possible repercussions if you don't follow them) listed in OPs giveaways.
If someone just writes "No generic thanks messages please" you have three options:
1: Don't post
2: Post something that is not a generic "thanks message".
3: Post a generic thanks message in order to annoy the gift giver, and risk being blacklisted.
And if someone writes "Post thanks or be blacklisted" your options are as follows:
1: You don't post something, and thus get blacklisted
2: You do post "thanks" and as a result, don't get blacklisted
Each GA is its own case, and different GAs can have different requests, and not abiding by the requests is just rude. If you can't, or are unwilling to abide by the requests, then you should not join the GA. If the person creating the GA posts nothing, then it's more or less fair game to do whichever you think is appropriate.
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That request sounds like a rule.
If you don't follow rules, you get punished.
You shouldn't get punished for not fulfilling request. IF Blacklisting is considered as punishment..
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Why not? It's up to each and everyone who gives away games to decide who they don't want to give them game to, and if they don't want to give away games to people who are being rude to them, then they are allowed to ban them from future giveaways.
And by the same token, if I invite someone over into my home and requests that they take off their shoes before entering, and they don't follow my request, then I won't invite that person into my home again. It's not a "rule", but it's a request, a request with consequences if you don't follow it.
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If you want to make a request, then do it kindly......''Take your shoes off or else u are gettin on my blacklist'' doesn't sound very polite, in fact it sounds more like misuse of power.
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How else would you make sure that the person would know that he or she should not write thanks and that there are consequences for doing so?
"Please don't write Thanks.
You might get blacklisted if you do"
is about as polite as I can think you can phrase it without writing an essay explaining your reasoning (and if you were, then people would not read it at all, because TLDR). Or should you just write "Please don't write Thanks" and just blacklist the people who do, without telling them that you'll blacklist anyone who does not comply with this request?
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IF Blacklisting is considered as punishment..
That's the problem, some people consider it a punishment, while for some others it is pure filtering.
Also, keep in mind that you don't have a right to enter an user's giveaways. It's a privilege, and the person can choose to deny you this privilege for any reason they see fit.
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I agree with you, whole argument revolves around one big IF :)
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Are you gona blacklist every single person who was rude to you because your actions created the whole situation? :D:D
Well, why not? Why would I allow someone, who is intentionally trying to piss me of, to participate in my little acts of kindness?
And what do you mean by "because your actions created the whole situation"? Do we all have to behave like small children, who can't control themselves and their only line of defense being putting the blame on reverse psychology?
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no, my point was that if you tell someone that their "thanks are not needed' that send out pretty offensive message.
And at that very point situation is being created (ofc depending on how mature/immature participant is).
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Well, we have quite different views on that it seems. Do you consider replying "Not at all" after someone thanks you as offensive too? Because that's basically raising the same point, only without waiting for the actual act of thanking.
Also, back to that poor people analogy. Personally I think that the winner should take his time and write a little, maybe a bit personalized message for the creator. But WHY is there a trend for thanking just for the act of sharing and having nothing else to say? Seriously, have you seen such a situation during a charity event?
As for the "fancy" comments. Why do you view asking to post something something meaningfull that could lead into a nice discussion and maybe even create some internet friendship between the op the participant as something bad, only because it requires some more effort than saying "thx"?
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Charity- wasnt there something like this.Giving and not expecting anything in return or not getting anything out of it?
If were talking about charity, imagine what would happen if we send food to africa and if they dont respond accordingly, they aint getin anything, cuz they are blacklisted.(kindoff).Africa analogy is kinda lame but i had to use it since you brought charity in.
Gifting a game and then askin for interesting story or a fact or something isnt really charity, since you are asking for things while giving things, that would be called trade.Ofc its awesome as hell if the winner thanks you in countless sentences, but it's not a rule, its an option and it should stay that way.
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I've brought in a charity situation, because I've thought that it would be a rather ok-ish analogy for the thanking a GA creator just for the sake of it mentality, not to the "wrong response=blacklist" case.
Ok, don't think, that we will come to an understanding, since our view points are highly different, but nevermind. I would never consider requesting a normal human interaction as a "trade" for something. Mainly because both sides are supposed to gain benefit from it, so the giveaway remains "just" a bonus. You aren't asking for a free psychologist, you are offering to share interesting things with the other person and by it propably brighten up their day also.
but it's not a rule, its an option and it should stay that way
Well, same as not being a jerk, right?
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Being a jerk would affect others, saying thanks does not bring any negative effects.
Unless precious message box is overflowing,i mean if u cant get over 100 messages saying 'thank you' then im sorry.
I might be weird, but those whiners amuses me,"OMG 150 messages,what a bunch of A-holes, ruined my inbox, now i cant see anything important.....1st world problems..'
Dont take this wrong way, im not trying to offend anyone,that quote is from a close friend of mine, i just lack the intelligence to illustrate my point of view more proper :)
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Getting back to the main point... I think, regardless of reasons why, all people want is for others who wish to gain from their generosity, to follow very simple instructions.
Not a lot to ask. Especially when the instruction is "don't" do something - even easier!
But automatic entry scripts cannot understand these requests, of course.
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+1 Completely agree! That's the same thing I was arguing above.
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puzzle
if the ga creator says:
"do not write thanks in your reply or you will get blacklisted"
why ANYONE that takes 5 seconds to read that would reply with a "thank you" post? :|
puzzle solutions:
- they are blind
- they don't know to read
- they are rude and don't care
- they are trolls and love to get blacklisted
- they are rebels (viva la revolution!)
- they use a bot to automatically enter GAs (note: this is against sg rules)
so, the thing isn't about people posting "thanks" in replies, it's about people not even reading the description or using bots.
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I'm not arguing against it.I understand what you mean by this , BUT
GA'a description is meant for describing the gift if i understand it correctly and not for creating a rule set for users who enter giveaways and adjusting the odd of winning in Lottery which I believe isnt even legal!
Description: Describe gift (Create rules to adjust odds of participants)
Comment: Express appreciation towards GA's creator.
There are 2 sides to this argument and while some of us feel strongly about 1st being correct, we should act a bit more neutral and should not exclude 2nd side and state it as false.
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The description is for whatever message the creator wants to deliver to the entrants.
They are not making rules, they are making a request you are not forced to comply with.
They are not modifying odds, if an user is blacklisted after entering a giveaway, their entry is still valid.
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Then there is no problem at all, its all about user preferences :)
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You can always suck up lost giveaway slot and redo giveaway after blacklisting.
No system is perfect. Some work better for some ppl other for others. I have no issue with current.
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Once the GA has ended, don't both the winner and the gift giver need to agree on the GA getting removed?
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Yes, but you're not forced to deliver if you don't mind a not received mark on your profile.
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No, but it can get you intro trouble if you're trying to join certain groups.
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No. There's no suspension for having a giveaway marked not received.
But I think there can be one if it's because you were trying to give away a free game as another one, or a game non redeemable on Steam, a beta key ... and I think you can also get suspended if there's evidence that when you created the giveaway you never intended to deliver in the first place.
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A couple of giveaways experimenting with alternative & simplified text. Let's see how it goes:
"Please DO NOT post 'Thanks' (unless you are the winner)."
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/p0iUQ/the-chaos-engine
"Please DO NOT post any comment unless you are the winner or have something interesting to say."
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/K74dq/mays-mysteries-the-secret-of-dragonville
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It sure did. The ironic thing is that other than using a script or bot to enter giveaways, he/she seems to have a very good profile that ticks all my criteria for a profile worthy of whitelisting. So instead of blacklisting or whitelisting I just reported him/her to support.
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So some people asked their bots to refrain posting? Only 1 bot?
BTW I think you swapped the meaning of the answers, it should be:
Should blacklisted users be able to win giveaways if they were blacklisted after entering?
YES, let them win 224(55%)
NO, remove them from the entrants list 142(35%)
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Good point about the poll answers. Luckily I didn't just do with Yes and No, so the gist of each answer was still clear (I hope).
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The problem here is not the users. The problem is the notification of giveaway replies and the fact that we can't control it. Rather than beat this already dead horse has anyone bothered to use the Bugs/Suggestions section to ask if it's possible to add a feature that allows us to turn off the giveaway replies notification? Or maybe ask one of the script writers if they can come up with something? Wouldn't that be an easier and much more fair solution than blacklisting people? I used to say some form of thanks in every giveaway that I had entered. No one ever complained to me about doing it. Hardly anyone ever requested people to not say thanks (except for the obvious bots) until the site got upgraded and we got this new notifications feature. Now I only say thanks in the giveaway after I won it (and if it is a key that didn't require the person to add me to gift) and I have even been cussed out and blacklisted by someone for doing that! Not everyone posts or makes giveaways here so they may not even know about the feature. Others don't speak English and have seen others say thanks so they think it's the right thing to do and follow suit. This problem needs to be solved from a programming angle because these conversations/borderline arguments are not solving the problem. There are almost 200 comments in this thread alone and it's not the first time this topic has come up. It probably won't be the last time either unless changes are made.
EDIT 1: I will actually make that request myself and get the ball rolling.
EDIT 2: http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/7VMP1/we-need-an-option-to-turn-off-replies-in-giveaways
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From the FAQ:
Unless it's a technical limitation, I think it should work immediately, in effect kicking blacklisted users out of current giveaways.
Your thoughts on this?
Edit: Some of the discussion below is about phrasing of my giveaway descriptions/requests, so let's see how alternative & simplified text works. Here are a couple of giveaways to test things out:
"Please DO NOT post 'Thanks' (unless you are the winner)."
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/p0iUQ/the-chaos-engine
"Please DO NOT post any comment unless you are the winner or have something interesting to say."
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/K74dq/mays-mysteries-the-secret-of-dragonville
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