Men of SG: have you ever mistreated women?
Oh god damnit va3victis. Why. Ugh. Blugh. >:|
They're not going to get this (and not everyone will have caught the exchanges in the two other threads), so are gonna swallow this down with a pure pokerface and just end up using it as ammo. This is part of the stuff I was referring to about putting catharsis over anything constructive. I feel you but come onnnn. Hnnnngh.
For reference to those who missed it. Here's the original thread.
And here's the thread that triggered this one
It's a personal history issue. No bogeyfeminists are coming to eat your rights, you can go back to amber alert now until the real bogeyists come out on halloween to steal your children and lobby for :insert opposing political party here:. :P
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So basically OP is fighting a troll thread with a troll thread? That's gonna end well.
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I feel too lazy to rephrase my point, so my response is the same:
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So, did the latest discussions somehow make you feel threatened?
Edit: And what was your point anyway, you didn't make one.
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I treat everyone the same. Which I guess isn't good enough for some people.
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that's because you're an egalitarist, therefor against feminism
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I'm playing a competitive Warhammer 40k game at the Games Workshop tomorrow night. I'll be sure to print this out and pass it on to the boys. They are always using their power to get sex from women, and Dave with the 3000 points of World Eaters Chaos Space Marines is especially well known for using feminism as a way to get women to trust him before sending them pictures of his penis.
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Chaos Space Marines are bad because they do not respect women.
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You're right, and thank you, thank you, thank you.
There's a direct correlation to men who don't listen to shit like this and men who have close to zero healthy female friendships and relationships. That's probably why!
It's crazy disheartening that people hear this and don't want to listen. That the resounding male response to your question is 'no!'
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Isn't it a bit like saying that most men have BORING personalities because they only care about which football team wins some stupid championships? If you cared even a bit about the art of makeup or the importance of different cultures in your everyday life or about the most amazing animals species that exist on this planet we'd have something to talk about.
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I thought that you'd draw conclusions by yourself, but you completely ignored the main point of my message instead focusing on the mere examples that were there just to emapthise how far from the truth your reasoning is.
In your first comment you decided that most girls are interested in certain things. When I did the same but in relation to men you went on trying to prove that whatI listed as a typical male interest (in this case football but it's irrelevant) doesn't relate to you in particular. I'm not sure if I should congratulate you or what but don't you see that the exact same argument would work the other way around? The same thing goes to the second part of your comment. I can also ask you what is so productive about copyright laws and to tell me something insightful about graphics programming, but what would be the point?
What you described in your first comment is a front you'll often see on a person regardless of their gender. I find it really hard to believe that what you listed are the main and only interests of most girls (or boys for the record). Maybe you just regard people a bit too easily, just as you regarded for example makeup as something not really worth your attention? Or maybe I'm wrong and you're swarmed by boring and stupid girls and truly interesting and smart boys without flaws, but I find it much more likely that you just have a very weird world view :P
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"The importance of different cultures in your everyday life", as she said, is not a product of natural phenomena, culture is like the polar opposite of nature. I could tell you about burial practices all over the world or how western / eastern cultures interact and that would explain quite a few "things we can see and use everyday".
Makeup is interesting because it can tell a lot about the people who wear it. Social engineering might not be "real" engineering but it's a good way to understand our environment.
(Also "hard" work is overrated. The value of work is extremely subjective and varies depending the context it's done in.)
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It depends on what they wear and how, but things like social rank, personality, culture, family status... Same as clothes, jewelry or other social signals.
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I don't think you understand what Social Engineering means ... It's not the study of social behavior, so it doesn't help you to understand our environment, it helps in modifying people's behaviors. The word you're looking for is Anthropology.
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I know what it means. To use other people's behavioral patterns to your advantage, you still have to learn about who they are. I mostly used the term as a pun since ambidot mentioned terms related to computer science in his first post.
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Your ability to ignore the most important parts of someone else's statement continues to amaze me. Do you even remember what was your point in the first post? You stated that you don't have healthy relationship with women and you aren't interested in one because you think that women have boring personalities. How is this comment connected to your original point? I feel like you're not sure yourself what you want to prove...
You're saying "easily entertained" like it's a bad thing. So basically you think that we should fight tooth and nail for a bit of happiness in our lives? Isn't it an opposite of what entertainment is? Let's take movies. Is it really harder to like a good movie with amazing storyline and characters than it is to like a dumb action movie? Not really. So do those movies have equal entertainment value? Yes. But it doesn't mean that one can't be of greater artistic or technical value. You can't say that some thing is worse than the other based on it's entertainment value alone. You have to take into consideration other aspects.
Here let me just use quotas, because I really don't know what you are talking about.
importance of different cultures in your everyday life
.
it doesnt do anything but at least it's topics that explain things we can see and use everyday and not products of natural phenomena in remote corners od nowhere you probably read on some shitty lifestyle blog.
.
importance ... in everyday life
.
explain things that we can see and use everyday
Really?
Also I'm not sure why do you want me to answer your question about makeup if you did it yourself in the following sentence :D
And can I ask for something? Could you please start talking to me and not some imaginary Hawkeyebrow that fits your world view?
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Ok I can understand being frustrated at the general state of some things, whether it's an entertainment or trends (it doesn't mean that I agree with you in this matter, but it's my personal view and I don't really want to get into it right now). But what I meant by "original point etc." is that you very freely jump from talking about personal experiences, general rules and different groups of people like it's all the same thing. It looks a bit like your creating rules that supposedly apply to a general thing (eg. huge group that can be described as "women") based on very limited personal experiences and nothing more. What's more you tightly stick to those opinions and refuse to acknowledge that it may not apply to the majority. I'm sorry but how can one believe that browsing Facebook can be someone else's main hobby?
I do realize that such opinions can seem highly accurate but it's a bit like going to a rock festival and on the third day deciding that vast majority of people listen to rock music. Sure, most people who surround you in this particular moment like rock music but refusing to recognize that outside of this certain time and place exists a whole huge world full of pop or blues-loving people is just ignorant. And it seems like the same thing is happening here. You decide that most women like certain things. I'm pretty sure that every single woman that read it at least chuckled because it's just so inadequate. How many people that match your description can you name? The catch is that you have to be at least a little bit close to them - let's say minimum 3 lengthy conversations about yourselves, not the weather or workplace/university/school?
I'll agree that "importance of different cultures" might have been a little unclear but that's because it was merely a quick example listed to show you how strange your way of thinking seems if you try to reverse it, nothing more.
you probably read on some shitty lifestyle blog
describe one way makeup is productive
some people who work hard make produ
^ those are all assumptions. What's more they are wrong assumptions. I've actually read two blogs in my entire life as far as I can recall. One was about breeding dragons when I was 8 or 9, and the other was about living in Japan when I was maybe 15? I don't think I've ever seen a lifestyle blog up close to be honest :D You keep pushing me to talk about makeup like I'm interested in it. I'm not - it was again just an example. But on the side note - you measure if something is a good hobby or not based on it's usefulness in everyday life. Wouldn't makeup be the ultimate hobby? I mean if you do it right you can even transform yourself into another person and if you do it wrong you'll end up looking like Godzilla had a baby with Frankenstein. You can (and many people do) use it every day, so I'd say it's even more useful than knowledge about copyright laws... In the last one you for some reason that's bordering on mystical assume that I don't work hard or don't make some kind of product? (I guess that's what you meant). I have literally no idea what was your reasoning here, but it just adds to the impression that you're talking to some imaginary person that you made up based on two short comments.
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And I can't argue that :D
Thank you for a nice discussion and I'm sorry if my wording wasn't always readable - english is not my primary language so it might have been strange sometimes, as much as I try to make it understandable.
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Buddy, even if I gave a shit more about those things, I promise you I wouldn't want to talk to you anyway. You watch the Social Network? Remember that line at the beginning where she said (paraphrasing, of course) - 'You might think that girls don't like you because you're a nerd, but that's not true. They don't like you becase you're an asshole.'
That's you, pal!
Sit in ur sweaty cave and discuss graphics programming w/ y/own damn self! You bring nothing notihng to nobody else!
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- what the fuck do this mean
- no! I'm not auditioning for you to give me a chance to treat me like I'm a person worth treating well. That's not how good conversations start, and you walked into this one wrongheaded and flatfooted.
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i dont have any Friendly healthy Relationships to females...
or any Relationships to any Females at all...
or boys...
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Hey men, what are you planning to do better?
In case this is a serious question... If not, disregard this post.
I have no plans to be 'better' at treating women because I treat them as my equal. It means that I am treating both men and women equally with no distinct preference one or another. As my peers, of course.
For example, I don't greet with 'good morning' to my workmates, whether they're male or female, so I won't suddenly greet female workmate with a good morning.
I might have used bad wording in my statements, though, so if you want clarifications just ask.
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Preeeety sure OP is just trolling. Because some of the points he made are plain ridiculous. Like
- If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot!
- If I get a spot on something, you bet your ass I am going to take it and not give a fuck about who else is on it as well
- Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general.
- You can tell this is pure ridiculous, because there are plenty of good reasons to have to touch somebody. It's not sexual harassment to touch a person on a non-private part
I pretty much stopped reading after that because I realized this is all just a joke.
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I think those points are fair.
-I would be highly uncomfortable being in all one sex panel when the purpose of it affect both male and female workers.
- Man do like to touch women a LOT, at least here in Portugal.
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If it's a panel, then I did something right in my life and I am not gonna miss a one in a lifetime opportunity because I should feel bad due to my gender. Also, let's not act like women don't like to touch men as well. All coins have 2 sides, blaming one side as if it is the only source of a problem is bollocks. Women are just as guilty as men for doing some creepy or awful shit, yet they are never pointed out for the exact reason that you are girls. Plus, it's Portugal. Hispanic countries have a tendency to treat women like objects. I have no reason to feel bad and try to change myself because of someone from another country.
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I have no plans to be 'better' at treating women because I treat them as my equal.
If I'd write this post, I would reply with something like "awesome, then this thread doesn't talk about you, keep being wholesome".
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Most of it boils down to respecting people. not just women
This was my thought as I read the headline and first couple sentences.
In general, I try to be decent with people (all sexes, races, religions, sexual preferences, ethnicities, whatever). I am opinionated on some topics and make no apologies for that but I don't hate any group... don't really hate any individuals either but there are definitely people who piss me off more than others.
That said, I have noticed a trend, especially among the "P.C. Crowd" (and on a side note, I really hate that P.C. now refers to Politically Correct more than it does to Personal Computer...when the fuck did we let that happen?), to call someone racist/sexist/etc because they disagree with someone of a particular race/sex/etc. And while I don't disagree that it can and does happen, I think there are also a lot of idiots out there who imagine slights where there are none and/or blame differences in personality/social viewpoints/etc on these things. In those cases, it actually serves to create racial/gender issues where there were none/they were trivial before. Basically Merton's Self-fulfilling prophecy at work.
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Pretty sure it's a return-fire from the 'parody' thread that was generated in response to the catcalling thread.
I mean, look at the reserved first post-
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That's entirely respectable.
I'd do it myself given passive sexism is a pet peeve of mine, but I'm sitting this one out, given the context it was dropped. Plus everyone else seems to have this one stacked already.
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Exactly.. Almost every "women" word could be switch with "someone" and make its more fair.
Also : "Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses."
followed by " Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible."
Seriously ? lol its not fine to do assumptions on women, alright, but on men its ok ? i don't know what i even should think of this
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That's a typical feminazi for you. One gender should prevail!
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well congratulations for one hell of a sexist post and point of view, assuming that every man is disrespectful to women... i guess well done on being part of the problem and not the solution.
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well judging from all those blacklists i got, apparently its ok to point out when men are being sexist, but still unacceptable in modern society to point out prejudicial hate-filled women. Yay for equality.
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Exactly, nowadays hating men is fine, but never, never dare say something like "men have rights too", or telling something "defending women" as sexist
It won't be much to counter the blacklist, but welcome on my whitelist, people should hear the truth wether they dont' like it or not
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I appreciate it, thank you.. and the blacklists don't bother me in this case. I don't want anything, including giveaways, from people that are so eager to hate :)
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+1 . This 'victim/minority' mind set of some people is going to kill me. Bunch of pussies with nothing better to complain about.
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....you mean like when people were angry that black people tried to use the same water fountains for drinking out of? Or are we talking more about when women wanted to join the military? How about when gay people wanted the right to the same government benefits via marriage?
Give us a little scale of exactly when people weren't 'overly sensitive pussies', because to this fucking day the people that chant this garbage are getting just as intestinally knotted over fucking nothing, while expecting a complete simmer-chill from dissenters. Can we stop pretending this is an exclusive thing already? :P
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....you mean like when people were angry that black people tried to use the same water fountains for drinking out of? Or are we talking more about when women wanted to join the military? How about when gay people wanted the right to the same government benefits via marriage?...
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It's... getting harder for me to tell. Sooo many people would have posted that unironically.
Am I just getting old? I can't cash out of the forums just yet, my pension payments aren't complete-
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How about when gay people wanted the right to the same government benefits via marriage?
I think the main problem is that married people in general are given benefits over single people, for no good reason. While leaving together already naturally gives advantages (lower rent per person, shared subscriptions to electricity, internet, etc). It made sense to incentivize people to make children a century ago. It makes no sense today as the Earth is crumbling over the burden of mankind
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The issue for me was the idea that it persisted for so long without rational reason, and was constantly stonewalled and loopholed to suspend it indefinitely and without any rational reason that held up under scrutiny. It already gets spoken of like ancient history and like it was always there when it barely just happened. I dunno, I'm just spinning my wheels here. There's so much unsavory stuff in plain sight and from all angles. It can get depressing :u
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SG forum might have changed, depending on when you first 'arrived'.
SG alone probably refers to the GA site, so IMHO it's still the same as it was.
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That's true. The forums are my favorite part so that's the reason for the wording.
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Sorry to hear that. Hopefully, you can still enjoy staying around.
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No worries. I'll be sticking around for better or for worse :P
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The threads are clearly marked and not spilling over into unrelated subjects, so it's pretty easy to dodge.
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I meant my comment as more of a joke but I realize now that it is probably in bad taste. I'm not trying to target this post specifically. I just hate how the SG discussions are slowly spiraling into nothing but arguments, feuds, and drama. I know it's never been perfect but lately it's been a little more gloomy then usual.
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Oh I totally hear you there. I didn't mean to be standoffish. I meant more as an "at least it's contained".
The current batch is driven by a bunch of personal histories mixing with anti-SJW paranoia and gender wars stuff like an unstable Mission Impossible explosive compound, and then dropping in slow motion onto an original thread that by all means should have stayed pretty simple and chill. But it's never that simple is it?
It'll calm down, but... maybe not QUITE yet.
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Wouldnt it be just easier to say "treat others the way you want them to treat you"?
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The thing I quoted was something that my late grandmother used to tell me. Here I thought I was polite and neutral but my answer must have offended someone to the point he or she had to blacklist me? Go figure. It still amazes me what can people get offended by on the internet.
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People would blacklist you for saying "good day!" to them because they thought it wasn't actually a good day and were annoyed you would assume so. It's that kind of world. =P
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You said a very fair thing, and one that would help us achieve world peace if we all followed it.
So I figured the only one who could've blacklisted you for saying must be Satan himself.
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You wouldn't want to give this advice to a masochist unless you are one :P
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id rather prefer the " don't treat others the way you wouldn't like to be treated"
i believe almost everyone wouldn't mind other to be nices, while many fetichist who like doing painful stuff could just do them to you with "treat others the way you want them to treat you " xD
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A good piece of advice, I doubt most people even realize that it is from the Bible. People really should start reading and studying the Bible again. There are so many disasters happening today, man made and signs in the stars and nature. We are close to the end just as it was foretold within the Bible. God is out there and he is watching, mock at your own risk. I would rather see people repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior, we are all sinners.
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So this victimization culture finally reached SG. Can't wait for the online courses!
If you take notice the thread assumed that as a man you already oppress women
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Where's the "Never" option? Not all of us are assholes you know
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Noooo... surely that cant be true. Its in man's nature
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I think the post was meant as some kind of sarcasm, which would explain the biased poll (although it could also be a legit poll ran by Emma Watson 👀)
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Still everyone makes mistakes, doesn't matter if intentionally or accidently. Including women towards men. The good thing is that most learn something from it.
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As a woman myself (who went in here despite the title because I don't know why), my reaction to that list is, "Uh, no."
Here's the thing: if you spend all your efforts on trying to "balance the scale" by prioritizing women over men, guess what? The problem isn't gone. It's just shifted to have men being degraded. That's a huge issue with how feminism is looked at. Lots of people think it's for women trying to one-up men, when it should really be for people to be treated equally regardless of gender.
Anyhow, was glad to see several people advocating for the equality stance rather than just taking this post and going, "Boy, that sounds like a swell idea!" Yes, sexism exists. No, it's not so simple that it can be made into a bullet-point list and solved by having people follow it.
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I wanted to say this, but probably not that well worded. :)
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Real feminism, which has always been about gender equality, has trouble being taken seriously nowadays because of those who are trying to tip the scale the other way.
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Wow, that other discussion really seems to have triggered a certain OP.
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I'm a very, very strong believer of equal rights for all people, regardless of their identity. However, I have to be honest, I really dislike the attitude and general intend behind this thread.
Because you need to do better
Let's just start with this part of the sentences, which immediately assumes that all men are "bad". This is, in my opinion, just as bad as all of the points that have been stated in this thread. So you're saying that you are immediately labeling me, the reader, as a person who disrespects or acts wrongly towards women. That is actually quite a bit insulting to me, and I would be angry if it wasn't for the fact that I know and understand that not everyone will share my opinions on certain topics, and that some people do sometimes say dumb things on the internet.
Instead, I'm just a bit disappointed about how people tend to tackle these issues I take seriously - with disrespect for the topic at hand. If you want to make strong arguments, you have to be impartial in your thoughts process. Otherwise, your efforts will never bear fruits, and will instead backfire at you.
Here's hoping you were sharing this post just for a laugh - in any case, I'm not judging you so don't get me wrong. Just my two cents on the article itself.
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It's part of an ongoing thing between some people with history. The op dropped a reserved comment way up there, and I added links for the people who missed the other threads. Vae used a deliberately provocative copypasta and seems to have dropped it as a return-fire for the airquotes "parody" thread.
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I can understand first "parody" as responce to original's "this is my thread, go make yours" (but maybe I'm just reading too much into it and this was just some "I don't like OP, so let's troll her"), but now it's starting to get crazy and I really hope nobody will reverse gebders and repost this furthering the SG Draaaaamaaaaa.
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There was already an honest alternate thread made by MeeMesmo over here, that despite a bumpy opening with a bit of a language issue (I badly mistook one of the things they said as prejudicial when it turns out to be a language issue), it was a genuine counterpart to Mully's thread despite some trolls mocking even in his thread.
I was divided on the intent of the 'parody' thread until I read that there's some history between posters, and the OP was deliberately being evasive when chances to clarify whether it was to (very clumsily) disarm tensions, which pretty much sold me on it being a mockery, but I suppose your mileage may vary.
Regardless, it's a drama that sprang out of an innocent thread and escalated. This is why we can't have nice thiiiiings~
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Recently it's like a pattern how someone makes and okay (often questionable) discussion about topic, people who don't like it twist it around and mock it and make their own, and the meaning is lost, as well as any useful message. Like women get harassed? Happens. Everywhere? No (maaybe). Problem with everyone and everywhere? No. Could be improved? Yes. reaction: 3? mocking threads that just marginalize the fact that it IS a problem for people. Or this topic that can't decide if women are unique and should be respected or treated based on 15 universal points. Also, generalizing a group is baad, told the original writer of the list while generalizing the audience. And people don't like the attitude, so they attack the idea which had some good points to it. And mock it, that turns exactly the opposite of how it was intended to be. This forum is just getting miserable :\
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I treat everybody the same way...OP this whole thread is just silly and just make you look bad. stop being such a special snowflake.
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