I stopped listening to a certain musician after learning about some shady personal behaviour - it's sort of cleared up now, but I still don't feel like listening to them again (partly because it's not my kind of music anymore, but also because everything they made still seems dishonest)
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nope (didn't even know who you meant, had to google it XD)
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A musician... Everything they made... I need clearer hints :C
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don't you ever sleep? XD Ready to read about people you've never heard of?
Okay, so about 10 years ago, I was a pretty big fan of Jason Mraz and his music. He used to go out with Tristan Prettyman, who I also became a fan of, and she seemed super nice and I felt like I could relate to her music. Around valentine's day, after being with Jason for a good long while and getting a lot of (positive) attention from his fans, she broke up with him via e-mail (they were on two different continents, but still, she could've called). And AFAIK in that e-mail, she also sort of explained & apologized that she never really liked him in that way, just as a friend, and that she pretty much just went along with it because it got her more exposure (not just to fans, also mentions in articles about Jason, shout outs from him during interviews etc.). ANYWAYS, after all that, I felt betrayed as well, not just because she did that, but because that really wasn't the kind of person I'd like to support. But they got back together later and are engaged/married now, so I guess they've sorted it all out. But I haven't listened to either of them for at least 5 years, so I'm not really interested anymore --- I just checked Wikipedia, they broke up again ages ago, my information is really outdated.
I usually don't follow "celebrity gossip", but that was pretty personal, back then Tristan still sent out her CDs herself via her website (I know, because I didn't get mine, sent an e-mail and she replied and hand-delivered a copy at a concert I went to later). I don't have any illusions about knowing them personally, but I've met them both multiple times/had some e-mail contact, so the whole thing was weird
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Interesting story. You have to keep in mind that most of these people are completely f*cked up. They do sh--ty things, then they produce some incredible music. It goes with the territory. I'd say just go with what feels right. If it feels bad to boycott their music, then don't do it! If it feels bad to buy an album from an a-hole, then don't do it! Your gut will tell you what to do...you just have to listen to it.
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But, but I wanted to guess first! :C
Jason Mraz is well known tho, never heard of his ex-girlfriend/wife, but isn't this how it goes in the industry? I mean I've heard stories where agents contact other celebrities to get a fake relationship going to boost each others careers and so on. And often in real life people seem to be maintaining contacts for their personal use. If I would have been Jason I would feel betrayed too tho. Don't know how honest his intentions were, but yeah I get sorta get it.
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If their actions/opinions are truly against my scruples, then I will no longer engage in their content.
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:D That is about the reason why i don' check up on the people behind the entertainment media i consume (music/movie/game) -
but if it surfaces on its own, its usually never as clear or spectacular fucked up as we wish it to be. Even though we don't live in a
dream world, its still nice having a "santa or satan" to believe in ... depending what you're into.
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to be honest, i dont care, ill enjoy your creation, dosent necessarily means i support your actions, unless off course they are directly related, life its not black and white, just because someone has "different" ideas to me dosent mean they cant create something that can be appreciated by me, do whatever you want with the life you got.
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I stopped listening to lostprophets after hearing about their main singer :)
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I remember when this came about, extremely messed up
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JFC. I hope he rots in prison.
If I had listened to them before, I would smash/delete everything of theirs I owned and never listen to it again. I couldn't. Because it would forever be associated with that terrible behavior.
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Jesus... well I know what band I never want to listen to again.
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I forgot all about this. I was just listening to their stuff the other day when it came up in my random shuffle of my music. I really liked their stuff too
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Jesus fucking christ. Well, that's a band I'm never listening to. That's legit fucked up.
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I was literally thinking about this yesterday and thinking of other examples.
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Would really depend on his/her behaviour and if it's smth from the past or recent. If I don't like the things he/she does/says I'd probably stop watching/listening to hm/her's music/whatever. Wasn't in the position yet though.
(I would have to be smth really bad or else I wouldn't catch it probably)
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Nobody is perfect and that is what make us what we are... Humans :)
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Of course. Isn't it beautiful?
Look in the bottom left corner.
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Yeah, everyone repeats how he was not accepted to art university because he was a bad painter, but more closer to the truth is that he's style was not popular at the time with experts who liked something else more. Something fresh.
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In most cases it would be 3
Although it also depends on the severity. Some people did some shitty thing once but 99% of the time they're good people.
Also, music for example, you associate personal things, moments, with them and not necessarily the creator.
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If they made it, they deserve to get paid for it if you want to consume it, regardless of how shitty of a person they might be. At least if it's something regarding their personal life, if it's related to the product (like stealing content as you mentioned), I guess the best would be to just stay away from it, pirating it would be a bit hypocritical.
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You have matured. Support team is brainwashing you.
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Yes because I believe art is divorced from it's original creator the moment it leaves their hands and enters the public realm. My experience with a book will differ great than someone else and the author as a person has very lil' input on how I interrupt his work in the end.
If I allowed myself to be bothered by such things, then I wouldn't been able to enjoy the works of Edgar Rice Burroughs, Charles Dickens, and countless others who have made the world a greater place through their works even though they are ugly human beings. The world is ugly, but that doesn't mean we should spoil what good we have within it because of its original source.
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More or less my own opinion. One particular example (of a sort) would be Walt Disney. I'm not saying I like everything his company has produced, and to be perfectly honest there are only a few associated works I can actually say I've enjoyed, but were I to base my viewing decisions on the actions/opinions of one person associated with the production of that work, I'd basically have to boycott the entirety of the Disney catalogue, which would ultimately be a shame.
Yes, I'm aware that he is associated with a lot of the company's works in name only, but still...
Another example would be Orson Scott Card. I really enjoyed Ender's Game before I found out about his particular opinions. I may not support him/them (read: definitely do not), but I'll be damned before I'll deprive myself of what I consider to be some bloody good storytelling. (No, I've not seen the film of Ender's Game yet; never been much of a fan of book-to-film conversions since Dune...)
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Considering I'm the type of people he hates, fuck Orson Scott Card :D.
The film was alright, but haven't read the book. It would probably best for you to skip the film since you've read the book and have some expectations for it where I went in completely blind.
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The movie was not that bad, it actually made me want to read the books after (of course, is does not compare to them). And plus, plus, plus for the Dune reference (and damn the movies, why didn't we get the Jodorowski one?).
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Thats actually a pretty good way to think of things. I like that /highfive
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To be honest: I would still enjoy the music/game/movie/etc as just what it is. A piece of entertainment or beauty or whatnot.
If I were to claim any different it would be a hypocrit thing to say.
However I do feel I distance the work from the artist/person in my mind anyway.
As for the person, depending on what he/she did I believe punishment should be due in whatever form is appropriate.
Most of the times laws and society see to this, and if not then in some cases I feel that piracy could be a course of action. But that in itself opens a can of worms since it would feel like lowering myself to a form of thievery, so I would still not do that. Even if just to retain some sense of moral highground for a change.
Generally I have not been in a situation where I had to put any action behind these words so far.
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Like Joachim said above.
If I'm listening to music X, then I find out that it's ripped off music Y, then I'll most likely stop supporting guy behind X and (perhaps) start supporting guy behind Y.
If I hear that the guy creating my music is a bad person, such as racist or disrespectful, then unless it will consider my person or his product I'm using, I don't really care, why should I? Are you using Steam because of how GabeN looks like or because of his life decisons, or because you're enjoying it as a service? Why I should care, even if GabeN was found out to be cheating on his wife?
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Depends how badly they messed up.
There is one game called "Titan Souls", Totalbiscuit didn't wanted to review the game because it's just wasn't for him, he posted a tweet about it and then the artist of that game became a dick and posted his tweet by showing TB's tweet printed out and placed on a fridge and guess what, certain indie devs "congratulated" the dick, even the composer of Binding of Isaac which left me in shock.... I don't know if they're just kidding around, but it was a bad joke in my perspective.
So I decided to not support the game and certainly not the devs who supported the dick artist's decision (except the composer, but I'm keeping an eye on him). It was so insulting that the reviewers purposely gave bad reviews to the game on steam and I won't blame them, but it's still unethical to do that.
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Wait, let me get this straight.
A guy printed a tweet and pinned it on his fridge.
And there was drama because of that ? Wow.
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It was a childish move to a critic. How would you react when someone in your team publicly calls a critic in names or does something stupid to either offend or discourage him or her to review your game, you basically lose a voice - a critic can't review a game properly because of that. Sure, some critics ignore these drama's, but if you're an indie dev, it's very easy to f*ck things up and if you lose a critic's voice, you lose a quarter of your audience.
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But he already said he wasn't going to review it anyway, so they didn't really lose a voice.
Also you didn't mention in your first comment that he called him names. You just mentioned the fridge thing, so I failed to see the issue because that really seems like an innocent act to me, I wouldn't have been bothered by this whether I was the critic or one of the guy's coworker. But the insults could have been avoided, yes.
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about the fridge thing: why is this dickish behaviour? what is this joke supposed to mean? I'm curious and confused.
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Usually, I try not to mix personal and professional practices, but there are some things that make me less likely to buy a game. The main game I've boycotted consciously is Fez because the maker seems like he's consistently been a jerk.
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I, on the other hand, did not care about Phil Phish controversy and played FEZ and really enjoyed it and recommend it to anyone who likes challenging puzzle games.
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In that particular case it was possible to both enjoy the game and not support Fish. Fez was in at least one Humble Bundle and as such you could buy the game without allotting any of the money to Fish.
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Hard to say. I can only think of two examples right now, and it doesn't hinder my enjoyment of their past titles. On the other hand, what they did is directly related to the production process and that may be at least part of why I don't want to support them, so I don't know how I would react if someone who made something I like was, for example, a hardcore racist.
I did avoid some titles because their authors are dicks, so there's that.
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Depends on the situation and the artist in question. About some artists I care more than about others you know. But I tend to distance myself from someone's production if there's some political, unethical or morale issue. I don't even need to force myself I simply start to dislike the production unconsciously.
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If I enjoy an artwork, what the creator gets up to outside his role as artist is of little concern to me. If anything, I assume that a significant percentage are up to no good anyway.
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Yeah, find that if I make a thing out of it by deliberately removing xyz that I'm less likely to forget whatever happened and buy their stuff in the future. It's the same as boycotting Nestle/Amazon/Murdoch/whatever, you have to keep it in your mind until it becomes automatic but if you have the choice and don't like what they do, why give them money?
99.9% of media won't change your life, whatever it is chances are you can live without it.
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It depends. In general, I don't see it as my duty to approve the lives of the people whose art I appreciate. My letting them have their livelihood isn't my sanctioning their beliefs or actions. So, often, if they do good art I'll continue to appreciate it and pay for it.
But there are all sorts of special cases. If I think I'm directly doing moral harm by continuing to support them or their brand I'd probably stop. And sometimes finding out about a person really destroys your ability to appreciate aspects of their work so that you just have no incentive to interact with their output. There are also cases where things are personal: I once caught a published author plagiarizing and confronted him. He was an ass. I'm not likely to go back to reading his books. (On the bright side, his books were pretty meritless to begin with, so I wasn't likely to either way.)
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It depends on things. For example I think Varg Vikernes is an idiot but I still love his Moti Ragnarokum and Illa Tidandi. David Thomas is dumb but Pere Ubu has some ok songs. Also, let's just say that I probably wouldn't like almost anyone whose music I listen to :D For me it's always about how I feel, and some stuff can affect that. Like if I listen to music, it would automatically affect how I feel if I knew the creator tortures kittens. It's not a conscious decision. I don't care about plagiarism, I think tons of good melodies are wasted on crappy songs. I would rather buy good music by a plagiarist than crappy music by the original author. After all, it's a choice whether you even care about your melodies getting "stolen" or not, and not some sort of objective fact that it's wrong.
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especially since I'm not a good person myself
99% of time when people say that, they're lying. Knowingly or not.
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General opinion about such things is often far from truth. You probably just overthink it anyway, being that perfectionist-dude that you are. There's no person who can be "good" to everyone, and if someone seems like that, you must realize there's lots of fake expressions involved. And hypocrisy.... The "good people" who are social justice warriors, are the most hateful people I've ever seen, hiding behind some kind of "I just want world peace" mask, while actively shitting on everyone whose opinions (often fact based) they dislike. In the end, everyone just has their own agendas, but I judge the goodness of someone by their ability to judge every situation separately and stay fair despite personal biases.
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If a person follows the higher powers blindly, I won't believe she's good. Sometimes you just have to stand up and tell that you won't play like that. Sheeple can't do that. Also, some of the most "evil" people play by society's rules, and are mighty successful at that stuff in many ways. So yeah, totally not getting why you equate being obedient to society with being good. And that reminds me of those questions we have probably all seen floating around the internet, stuff like "would you rather kill one person to save 5, or ignore the situation and let the 5 die". In these scenarios, psychopaths are actually the good people. They would save more lives, while your good law-abiding-unquestioning filler-girlfriend would let them die. I mean... it's not enough that you don't do anything bad in your routine life. To be considered good, you'd have to have balls to do something when things go bad, even if it means going against authority.
I think society is full of shit, while on its morality scale I'm a horrible person
What are the "horrible" things you're doing, then?
I used to wonder if I'm a "bad person", sometimes still do... because people tell me I am when I joke about sensitive matters and don't shed a tear over snuff videos. But the thing is, I'm probably one of the least judgmental people and I'm almost unable to actually hate in its purest form. I have no problem helping or even befriending a person who hated me because of some stuff that has passed, while most people I know are not able to forgive, every misunderstanding leads to serious drama etc. The same people who are "nice" in their daily life on autopilot, but when things go wrong, they have no better thing to say than "he can't talk to me like that, he will burn in hell for it" instead of understanding the human nature and the reasons why people do what they do, and not getting panties in a twist over everything.
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Isn't that typically for people who say the opposite.. ("especially since I'm a good person myself")
At least I thought it was often something like that..
since this person just admitted they're not a good person. they're a BAD PERSON. BAD.. what a bad person. Time to down my sarcasm about being bad now...
edit: I didn't mean to bold it!! That makes me look horrible.. I just wanted to separate my sarcasm.
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No option to "EXECUTE THEM FOR HERESY?"
You disappoint me!
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Comen don't be naive. Everyone has done something "bad" one way or another in their life. Specially those that are enjoying fame or are at the top when it comes to earning. Sadly there are no good guys in western society as it is all about competition in end.
In end it is only about choosing lesser evil. Finding that is nearly impossible though as not everything is public. And even if it would be public, it is still usually hard to find the full truth. Many times even those that are seen "bad" are actually the lesser evil if you knew the full truth of the case.
So i guess depends is my choice as an answer.
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We were all born as sinners but your comment sounds like everyone has consciously done some shady stuff at least once and that is a very bad accusation. It has nothing to do with being naive, I do know some truly good and warm-hearted people that would never do (and have never done) something that would put them in bad light. (And I'm not talking about myself)
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Nobody borns as a sinner, however it is the environment around us that grows us. Most have done something "shady" in their life by the age of 18. Although most of the time it is something small or negligible. Also many times it can be put on unconscious choice to some degree.
However I don't get how you think there is some accusations, it is just reality of our world/society. It is just way more likely that the person has done something "bad" in their life than none at all. Just cause one does good overall doesn't mean they haven't done something bad too in their life.
But the point is that the graveness of one's offense depends on many things. News usually isn't the best tool to find it and never tell the full truth. How grave the offense or fault is in the eye of the viewer in end though. So graveness can vary a lot from person to person too. What you see around the good person might not be the same for everyone else. You might not even know everything, and it would be kind of ignorant to claim so. However without proof, there is no accusation. But it is still likely.
Shouldn't take it too seriously though. Or life will be miserable.
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I'm not going to start arguing about religion, but we were born as sinners..
It's easy to think everyone did something bad if you've done something bad on your own.. And then, most importantly, what is the definition of "bad"? No point in discussing further really, since that would be a whole new topic on its own :D
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Well shouldn't bring religion into this if you don't want to argue about it. Also rather disrespectful.
Everything has a factor in everything, not that I remember personally doing anything bad. I'm sure i've hurt someone's feelings in past though without noticing it.
Indeed bad is a huge range of meaning in it. Also who the viewer is changes it too in many ways. So yeah a big topic indeed. Just like the question OP made is. Nothing is so simple sadly.
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