You're allowed to advertise in giveaways. And you're allowed to "showcase" or advertise things on here within reason.
Without specifics, I couldn't answer whether what you're talking about is actually breaking any guidelines.
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Have you seen the deals section lately? It has something new [ ]
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got a horribly racist comment report that i made over 1 year ago. still up
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Like many others :) I guess not many reported it at the same time :) Although.. That's not even what happens
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Are you talking about people advertising games they created or other things they are involved in? I don't remember when that changed, but I think it was at least a few years ago when the categories "User Projects" and "Game Showcase" was added. I think it needs to stay in those specific sections though and advertising has always been allowed in giveaway descriptions.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussions/subscribed/search?q=NAG5
Advertising streamers for a 5% off that drops like rain on Fanatical anyway.
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Unlike OMEN10 with omen being partners/sponsors with Fanatical AND having a better deal, this is indeed just advertising and promotion
(fun fact? it's not even a company, it's . I wonder if we'll get a list of ALL the affiliates on SG and then some in every Fanatical post soon enough)
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Sale is sale, isn't paying less for games what we are after?
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Don't you have one of the 234234235 coupons they give out?
Or pretty much any other affiliate? It seems fine to you to promote exclusively 1?.. What for? The same 5% that we can get in 100 different ways?
Regardless.. Rules are rules
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I don't care where is my 5% from and I bet same for most of sg users. If you got a personal problem with that affiliante, it doesn't mean we can't abuse him to get our 5% sale. If it is about you having own code that you wanted to be promoted instead, you could offer it over dark times of OMEN10 end.
That atleast gives us sale unlike using sg reference code.
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I don't mind the affiliate at all. He is actually a very nice guy and a very decent streamer.
What I mind is seeing every rule bend to the likeness of whoever.. OMEN was a partner/sponsor. An affiliate clearly isn't. And they take a CUT from the sales.. Now please tell me how would you prioritaze the affiliates? Maybe link them all together below every deal post? Or just randomly pick one every day raffle style?
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And we are back at NOBODY CARE, WE HAVE 5% OFF.
If you have 7557808578E85 never ending coupon codes laying around, than pick one you consider steamgiftly correct and ask Lilly to replace it. And we won't care eather as long as we save few cents.
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Thank you :)
And yes, I know you don't care. But you see.. You aren't the center of the universe. If you have something other to add that's meaningful instead of "I don't care how I can save 50 cents" I'm all ears
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You forgot to list these sale codes we can use...
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Go ask Lilly. I don't make those posts, not my "obligation" to teach you/show you
But tell me.. Those sale codes violate the rules or no? Oh I forgot.. You don't care for that.. For good or bad, the site is a community. You can chose to ignore it for 50 cents
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So these were just empty words about billions codes laying around... Big words and no real solution, is the thread just about getting Lilly suspended?
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"I could give many examples but by default I would be actively calling them out :) Nice trick.."
My issue is the rules of the site and how/when they are enforced. What I see is something others see as well. The thing is lately it is becoming more and more apparent. Which made me wonder what changed and how. But no. If I wanted such a thread, I would create one. I want to see and discuss much more than this and see other opinions as well.
I told you before, the coupon doesn't even matter on its own. The rules about advertising do.. And the mods sleep. Which is also a common issue even after the changes on them.. Though sometimes they are extra fast on other things. Tell me how huge violations pass so easily and nobody does a thing? )I'm not speaking for the coupon only)
Same with many comments that should had been canned ages ago and user reports dating back months and years.. But we can't call them out.. Yet those that do the calling out don't even get suspended.. See it's a weird circle about luck and who stays. That's more interesting than the coupon itself
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So still no codes, just covered personal attack on another user.
That argue will lead nowhere.
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Good luck with that. Unless the user is called "RULES".. If you want to add something over it feel free, I'll read it in the morning, I finished entering my ga's for tonight and it's sleep time. gn! <3
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not everyone has a 5% code sitting around they can use, and it wasn't even known to be a streamer code initially.
then it came down to have a code with a notice in the posts of what it is(which is the choice taken), or have no code(so no available discount for some users... and I am sure many would rather save 5% over nothing/begging for a 5% code from those that have them)
CG should just get an affiliate code with fanatical at this point to be shared in these posts.
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It's very easy to find one even if you haven't bought anything from there in a month. But that's not the issue at all
Yes, he can do whatever he wants, but that's still advertisment and promo.. "for the support of the site"
The thing is, we twist everything in the rules and guidelines whenever it suits us :) That's not how rules/faq/guidelines work or should work.. And with the mod "force" being as it is, it's catastrophic.
The ads were just 1 of many similar fashion examples of this
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I would prefer a 5% off code to paying full price. I'd prefer a 10% off code even more. Unless it's going to something I morally object to, I really don't care why the sale code is there, and I won't and can't be bothered to check each one.
Further, I, for one, don't seem to get these discount codes when i want to actually spend money. LOL or GRRR.
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Don't worry. There is no logic or sense, it's a personal vendetta. I don't know the history of it but it's been pretty ugly all over for weeks now.
Anything sensualshakti does gets called out, dragged around in the mud and inflated.
Guess you have to have a hobby?
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You missed the point entirely. First of all, I didn't spoke of a user. I want an answer on which and how the rules are followed. If we are allowed or no to call out and offend. How about misogynistic comments? Lies? And so on. Reporting does nothing, the mods do nothing and just selectively pick only certain few to either back up or throw to the wolves. If you think this is about me not liking Lilly then you need a reality check (I would had commented on her posts if that was about her)
Wake up and read better. Also, all that's "bad" the last weeks is the same thing I'm mentioning here. Yet nobody cares.. And it has nothing to do with a single person
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OMEN10 didn't work, that's why the 5% coupon code got even mentioned, this makes the higher percentage moot.
And you only get yourself a 5% coupon, if you buy something - not everyone has it ready and around.
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Wait, that's the whole thing? It's just a discount code.
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No, it isn't. This is what people wrote about first
But yes, as silly as it might look to you it has a greater impact than you think. And then, we have and the guidelines and rules that are in violation
I guess nothing is an issue for the same cents you can save by using any other of the 23235345 coupons they give out with 5% or any other affiliate :)
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But at most it would be an issue of it being featured in the thread's title, it could be easily solved by dropping it from there and only retaining that info in the body of the discussion. So it's not that big of an issue.
Your original wording made it sound like some sort of deep and hard to fix thing, but from the looks of it it's just about doing minor changes here and there so the forum goes back to following the rules as intended.
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I didn't open this thread for the coupon thingy alone. But it never stops to amaze me how all jumped for the cents instead of the actual issue
In any way, I don't have something to add at this point I haven't already done above.
Let's see if anyone else gets it
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Can you really blame me for only addressing the one concrete thing that has been brought up so far? You're being unnecessarily vague when it comes to what exactly you're complaining about.
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I didn't blame you
But like I said on my first post: "I could give many examples but by default I would be actively calling them out :) Nice trick.."
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"can you blame me?" and its variations are just a pre-baked expression, it doesn't have to be related to something specific, kinda like an idiom. I tend to rely on these to structure my sentences because it makes them sound more natural and English isn't my first language so I can't count on improvisation to carry me.
And I'm not asking for you to give names or links, but to maybe describe the situations in a little more detail so the rest of us can have a better idea of what exactly you're talking about, it's really hard to address an issue when one isn't sure of what's the issue and trying to slowly dig an answer out of you is only gonna lead to unnecessary conflict as some people are gonna get fed up with it and get aggressive.
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I should had added an :P to make it more playful. I knew how you meant it :P It was supposed to be a "silly" response. Oh well.. written speech failed me here :P
But imy initial message isn't cryptic or a "complaint". I formed lit ike this to HEAR different opinions, not make a huge text over it about mine, That's why I refrain from many details. I wanted to raise a discussion, not "lead" it, if it makes any sense
Edit: Ok, I won't be editing all night my cat typing.. I'm too sleepy for it xD See you later!
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Ok, that makes sense I guess. But it really felt like we were supposed to be pocking in the dark until we found what you were referring to, which does come off as very indirect and prone to conflict.
And about why the community at large has ignored these issues, I suspect it's just a case of no one noticing since the way I see it most people focus exclusively on the info they're interested in when it comes to deals and bundle posts. And I'm also willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the one responsible for those threads cos I can see how it could easily be a case of adding more info in an attempt to be helpful and failing to realize that some of that might be breaking a rule, it's not that evident of an infraction unless you're specifically looking for it.
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Well no, I'll give you that. But in this case I suspect that what's going on is that many of us are pretty clueless as to what exactly is going on that's currently breaking the rules, not everyone is hyper-vigilant and some things can be less obvious unless one's paying attention, which is evidently my case because I had no clue that those codes were tied to some streamer.
And there's also the fact that multiple times in the past things that started as perfectly fine according to the rules slowly slid into the not so fine territory without most noticing.
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Oh, I never knew those were affiliate codes, I just thought they were discount codes directly from the bundle site.
I guess that should be against the rules if it is giving money to a specific person while other users are not allowed to post affiliate codes, but I do appreciate it being there because I didn't know these codes exist and it's nice to save money.
So while I think it is against the rules, I also don't want it to go away. In the long run, it's probably better for the site to not allow it even though I like it.
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That's the thing. It seems we have classes of members here. Some are allowed to do as they please while others aren't.
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I don't have enough information to know if that is true in this situation, it might have just been overlooked. I think the previous Omen code was just a regular site discount code and was allowed and I figured this was the same kind of thing. I had no idea it was an affiliate code where someone specific got money. Maybe the support members didn't even notice the code changed or maybe they just didn't know what kind of code it is like me. I don't know if reports were filed or if people posted about it in the threads and if support read those comments, so I don't want to throw around any accusations.
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Maybe the support members didn't even notice the code changed or maybe they just didn't know what kind of code it is like me. I don't know if reports were filed or if people posted about it in the threads and if support read those comments, so I don't want to throw around any accusations.
The code worked for less than a day, and while it was clearly communicated in the post that it's an affiliate code, that time was even less than the time window it worked. As I guess most of us experienced, support is not ever-present nor really fast, especially in situation that pop up suddenly and need to get a sufficiently high ranked support.
I very much agree with you, in terms of we really don't know if it's allowed, and it's super early to start another day by throwing accusations around (against somebody OP has an ongoing feud with, and already sit out 3 weeks? of suspension for not being able to maintain proper communication and behaviour, and the snarky-snappy style is still present)
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You fit my title to the dot!
And no. It wasn't 3 weeks or for what you are saying. I'm not fond of witch hunts
The problem is that NO ref links are allowed. Actually no, that's not even it. The fact that we have a rule about it is the problem. And how everyone change which rule is good or bad based on what suits them. Rules being applied on a whim is an issue, don't you think? And this was only an example that got mentioned. The site is full of similar things in ads, calling out and rule enforcement/fairness BUT if I start listing it's considered calling out.. See the problematic circle? If they get reported nothing happens even if it is 100% against any rule.. So to who do you go then?..
Let me know how would you proceed
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You got 1 + 2 week suspension if I remember well, it adds up to three. May be a few days off, it's not important to anyone really.
I don't really care about how much I fit your title or not. You're deliberately vague, you say nothing, just act smug because if you say nothing, you can't be wrong, right? So anybody replying is wrong, you win by default, such a masterplan.
Yet you go nowhere, you don't have a message other than nondescript complaints .You're constantly covering yourself with the rule of no calling out, after having offensive rant after hurt tantrums. You clearly don't care about suspensions or acting like somebody who tries to behave, so I call your worrying about rules as fake as they can be.
Let me know how would you proceed
End the charade and say openly what you want, stop the "smirk smirk" underhanded comments to random users just replying your call for attention topic, or stop playing the moral kindergarten teacher of the community. By the nature of support tickets you can't know if there were any repercussions of the use of the affiliate code. If we're even talking about that, as you avoid owning up any of your complaints even with a direction.
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I already did.
And yes, you are calling out. I don't care about what you remember. You are wrong over my suspension again BUT, here is the funny bit, I don't have to answer to this.Like me or no, you are on the wrong side of things in this one.
And what I'm asking is pretty clear and has been explained and here and elsewhere in this thread. If you can't grasp it, perhaps drop it or ask a friend to explain it to you instead of rambling to me about off topic stuff. It's a not a PM conversation
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It's not calling out to talk about past things that was visible for everyone, but whatever lets you sleep at night. If it's vague nonsense, more power to you. If it's multiple lines of actively trying to insult me, be it.
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The example you're talking about wasn't a referral link, though. Nor does it come anywhere close to the site's definition of advertising.
The only thing the case in question is guilty of is posting a discount code without knowing that it was associated with a specific streamer (the code itself having no obvious connection to the streamer, and to whom the poster has no personal connection), and then updating to specify the source of the code when it was learned.
So what's your suggestion for the new rule? No posting discount codes until you've researched where they come from? Because it's such a serious problem, that we should discourage and make it more difficult for people to share deals which might interest others?
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It was stated within the thread itself. You can go see it even now.
No, I don't mind a coupon. I mind advertising when it isn't allowed. You want a discount but there are 9ther affiliates with discount coupons. You want them blastered everywhere?
I personally don't care if yes or no. But each reply leads to another result. Meanwhile both must be according to the rules. It's unfair to any ither affiliate and unaware people. Heck even people like you that simply don't read (ypu would had seen it)
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You think I don't read, but you keep referring to this as advertising - it very, very clearly does not meet the definition of advertising as stated in the site's rules. As my comment said. But sure, I'm the one who doesn't read.
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I disagree with everything you wrote for the same reasons as you. But this is only a fraction of what I'm discussing here and it's not the only example. BUT I can't give any example with a link.
We do have groups, games, reviewers and then some advertising outside of the rules (not where they are supposed to) for ages.. This affiliate link is just 1 of many. You should read the rules better or ask a mod. Here they don't reply so i don't know what they would say.
But if it doesn't meet the requirements then why many got suspended over it? And if it does, why we get selective enforcing? I'd love to see someone that can actually answer that
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I disagree with everything you wrote for the same reasons as you.
I cannot begin to fathom what that is supposed to mean.
Everything you've posted in this thread comes across as so confrontational, cryptic, and vague.
You are a challenging person to have a coherent conversation with. I don't think I'm up to the task. I concede.
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Let me put it more simple: I disagree with you based on the rules and guidelines
We view them differently it seems. But affiliate and referral links aren't allowed, so I don't see how you see them being allowed.
And I'm not cryptic :/ What I can't do is specifically call out.. Maybe due to that some might not be able to follow 100%. But the issues I'm referring too exist on their own. You don't need names for them
I'm easy to discuss, I love hearing well constructed arguments and opinions and I don't dismiss someone without stating my reasons. I'm actually open minded and really like to see how others view a topic.
I'm adamant on if something is or isn't an argument or it's an opinion and I like if there are rules, to be followed equally (or differently not at all). And if something isn't fair, it should be pointed out. But, yes, I will respond as I'm spoken to and usually on the same level.
Now that we are past "me".. Care to actually comment? Because it does break the rules and similar stuff to it have been suspended or asked to be deleted and so on (and to the rest of my points across the thread)
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The only difference between you and the average Karens is that these ladies usually have some entertainment value.
But nice ironic touch to complain about "calling out" in the title, just to then continue your very one-sided vendetta.
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nice ironic touch to complain about "calling out" in the title
I don't think she knows the meaning of irony. And speaking of irony, the name calling posts in the other thread that have been, I'm sure, reported by many, still haven't led to any kind of disciplinary actions obviously so I guess everyone is getting a pass these days, not just "certain people".
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I haven't called out anything except the rules.. Unfortunately, those aren't a user.
But I'm loving the mass attacks and offensive/lying/misogynistic comments that nobody does anything about. It's very interesting
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No one forced you to participate in the discussion, but you hauled in unprovoked with a misogynistic insult anyway.
For a so so wrong person with a personal vendetta, you all really feel intense desires to insult and drag through the mud, instead of just voicing your so so rightful and correct opinions in an inoffensive manner like well-adjusted members of society. Or not participating at all.
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I didn't even know that OP is female. What I do know though is that OP has been spamming us with accusations, nitpicking and insisting on regulations by OP's definition. And did so in a most attention seeking form. Repeatedly.
All of this is 1:1 from the Karen playbook. So yeah, I used the fitting popular term.
Nothing about my usage insults women in general. But yeah, I get why the usage didn't excite you.
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Congratulations! Nothing you have just written invalidates any point in what you've replied to.
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Maybe because invalidating anything wasn't my intention?
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Of course, that's fair! Now if your intention wasn't to stay on topic, then I don't understand why you'd randomly tell your story to me. I did not ask for it and will ignore it just like you ignored my points.
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I might be seemed directly jumped into the middle after reading the whole thread quickly but,
Lilly just continues what Rachel did in the past. It's a public service and those deal threads are quite useful. Personally I wouldn't mind even those codes affiliated directly with Lilly, which isn't the case here, she just shares them.
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Not in the middle. Hmmm.. This is just commenting on 1 specific thing which isn't even my main "issue"
If we can advertise it should be allowed for all. Not for a few and then selective "deals". Any affiliate would do
Btw, I even like that streamer and quite a lot. But it doesn't make it fair for others.
You can quickly read and about selective rule enforcement, random moderative action, unbalanced treatment and allowing whatever to be posted (mostly based on who is who)
Usually ticket reports for behavior take months and many people wine about it. Yet some jump in front and equally bad or insignificant and to those they get insta closed.
Basically, I don't like 2 different measures for the same thing and enforcing only when it suits some. Same goes for the calling out rule.. It has become a "circus" situation
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Maybe I missed something but I actually didn't understand what you meant with calling out (considering the recent threads). I guess the main issue is general, how the site works?
As for fairness, what would make it fair? I mean, it's beneficial for the person who use the code, maybe what you mean here is morality instead of fairness?
Modwork is based on volunteering and like others mentioned they have a huge ticket backlog. Also, not every mod can take care of everything. And when someone jump into the front and yells "shoot me" obviously they won't back down because it's more apparent than others. So I think that's quite normal (Though not exactly sure what you meant.)
So what you mean with 2 different measures is the difference caused by priority levels maybe?
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Modwork is based on volunteering and like others mentioned they have a huge ticket backlog.
That means some of the reports contain unpunished infractions for years, some of them blatantly xenophobic for instance. Look, it's simple... do the tickets in order.
You volunteer or you don't. If the latter, step away from the mod role.
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Don't know about the details but I agree that ticket priority should go chronologically, or at least there should a be time limit for unsolved tickets so they end up to higher rank mods to be handled as last resort. Maybe mod team needs a fixer rank for this job. But in this case if tickets still pile up in backlog, that still means extra work for those fixers. So maybe SG needs more mods or more higher rank mods.
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Those are good suggestions, maybe worthy of a new discussion. ;)
Well I'll add to this the fact that a lot of tickets, specifically autojoiner reports (infraction on rule right in the middle of Entering category), are a bad joke to begin with as they shouldn't even be a thing. Logs don't lie... We don't need all this reporting masquerade, where mods don't even want to do them (understandably). Simple things like that which would massively ease the burden on mods.
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Heh, I wouldn't create a new thread soon I think since I'm a slow writer but anyone can use the arguments. :)
Well, I also agree that SG should have a periodical autojoiner bans. We had this in the past and it would be nice if this becomes a regularity. It would definitely lighten the ticket count as well.
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Sad truth, but again, very simple: rules are absolutely not enforced.
Autojoiners are here to stay because site owner wants them to stay. The day the site owner wants them gone, it will be a non-issue. It is very obvious who is autojoining and who isn't if you have the tools to look at it. One wouldn't even have to look at it.
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This is closer to where I 'm getting this at. I consider it a larger issue but yes, how mods handle things and when, matters. In this thread I keep reading random stuff about coupons and lilly.. I clearly didn't write that, it was one of many examples I based my thread on and others mentioned.
We have many ads, many don't follow the rules, calling out has become a goodmorning. Some tickets get unfairly xlosed at light speed and nothing is done and others await for years.. But what do you do when you have NOWHERE to turn?
"You can leave". That's a reply I get a lot. But it can be used in reverse. I see some "familiar faces" all around doing the same thing years now. Of course they'll come biting when the mods don't do anything at all
I didn't start the convo for that alone either. What I want is a discussion covering the different aspects of how things have (or haven't) change.. Let's not forget we still have mods that still try to chase members out or talk about their family members. We get suspensions for stuff that happened 5 years ago.. What's the point? In this very thread it has certain misogynistic comments that their reports got closed insta like Flash and no suspension yet somehow antther random person got suspended over one god knows what. And that's my bottom line. It's senseless. And it's also killing the mood for anyone that sees it or starts seeing it. For community purposes ofc.. If someone just comes to enter ga's and leave, nothing matters anyway
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I see. Then I suggest to fix the satirical air of your post since this way it's too indirect and kinda hard to understand. Probably it's also the reason why you're getting more negative replies.
For ads on SG, they're not targeted ads like Facebook or Google does, they're from Fanatical which many users here use their keys to create giveaways. Also everyone has the freedom to use an adblocker.
Users not following the rules is a bit of a deep issue. We don't know the mods' internal affairs. I also understand that banning a user because of long past ticket may seem absurd but it's just a delayed justice. Could've been more useful with an immediate action but better late than never. Since those suspensions also have levels and once you reach a certain level, it's permanent.
Let's not forget we still have mods that still try to chase members out or talk about their family members.
I... don't know anything about that. First time hearing about this even.
More control comes with more responsibility, hence the requirement of more mods. However I believe the mods are also being controlled so there shouldn't be random suspensions. I don't think that would be the case. If some user specifically targets you, you can report them and get them suspended for their actions. Probably there is already a priority levels with the tickets, but no idea how they work with these kind of cases.
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I can reply to this, juuust not here. I will get blamed for calling out. You see gow tricky this is?
But when they do the same nothing happens (and I'm not speaking out of air here but again, I'm facing the same problem)
For the mods, that's another extra problem which again I can't show you here. But since the majority of calling out goes unsuspended, why I'm the one that's get called out on it?
I wouldn't call it satirical air but semantics. I understand exactly what you mean. Due to various circumstances and obstacles, I couldn't find a better way without breaking a rule.
Anyway, I don't have much to contribute to this (not without knowing from a mod what's happening after all.. Nobody talks)
But I can guarantee you that the report system doesn't do much if anything to help with this issue. It concerns them too after all
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I think the significance of the action likely factors in, as does the vast backlog of reports and help requests.
And if the violation is something the userbase directly benefits from, there would likely be less of a desire to strictly enforce that rule.
Although in the latter case(s), an amendment to the rules probably should be posted.
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The majority of the rules need to be written better and be less vague. Especially with the current mod situation
It's starting to be the wild west the sister site is.. With some directive differences. It's a private site but it abides to the same laws all sites abide.
Internally we have a set of guidelines. When they aren't equally followed then it's a problem that usually leads to more problems, abuse of power, bitterness. It needs to be addressed
True, the "simple" user that only enters to win or tries to gain CV in any way doesn't care (it shows and here and from the statistics). Nothing changes for them. Not YET. But if this keeps going on it will start affecting big gifters and "simple members" and the resr as well. Especially now that we have and official site ads
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The 5% fanatical promo code was probably found out with a coupon site like Honey. That's where I found it. It wasn't known and then disclosed later it was a streamer.
I will agree that mods don't enforce the rules consistently nor do they have the automated tools to deal with it properly. Advertising is allowed in giveaways and in discussions WITH a corresponding giveaway but is done all the time without a giveaway. Not activating a gift is cause for suspension but there is no automated process (even though it would be really easy). While following the rules, there are a couple of people that are gaming the system to get way more free advertising. There's a bot-ing issue. I'm not going to attribute this to anything nefarious as you are suggesting but they're all issues.
Also my god steamtrades definitely puts off wild west vibes.
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What really bothers me is that reddit tells me there was an OMEN17.
And that missed 7% opportunity makes me FOMO sad.
NAG5 is maybe not ideal, but as it's already circulating everywhere, the nightmares have already left their nightbarn. So brush your teeth in the morning, because the genie can't be put back in the nighttube. Or something. Don't take it personally.
Use it once and then use the 5%'s Fanatical gives you with every order thereafter, and feel very good about yourself for giving 100% of your money to Fanatical without a very thin slice enriching anyone else.
Now I'm just as boring as the rest of this thread. Sorry folks.
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OMEN17 still works but never worked for bundles. OMEN17's restrictions make it only applicable AFAIK to MSRP games.
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The NAG5 coupon ceased to be working in a day or even less, so even that is not an option anymore :P
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Another day, another useless and pointless thread you give us. You sure you know the meaning of "moderator"? Because for someone who claims to be of higher intelligence (https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/ndpZIXX) you sure don't show any proof as the weeks go by btw.
So do yourself a favor, and stop calling people out, directly or not, that's against the guidelines [https://www.steamgifts.com/about/guidelines] the same ones you are constantly talking about "moderator".
It's really sad what you are always doing and before you go with the "everyone hates me here because I'm a minority or I'm not special like others" or some political bs, we don't want you here because you are CONSTANTLY bringing people down with your sad and empty life, where you only feel acomplished by being toxic with others and when someone talks like you do, you get all defensive and use insults on other people who clearly didn't do anything to you. Stop.
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with your sad and empty life, where you only feel acomplished by being toxic with others and when someone talks like you do, you get all defensive and use insults on other people
You threw an insult in this very quote.
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weird, you didn't seem to say that with the link I provided with the multiple times I got insulted.
saying someone has a sad life and saying someone is sad are two different things you know.
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Shh... All I'm saying is you're throwing insults.
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Defending someone who's been toxic multiple times doesn't look good you know
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Wow, what a sleazy condescending comment.
I just took my pop-corn out. That someone is being dragged down by a numerous pack of people and got suspended for the same thing they've been doing, whether it is just or not in your opinion. Of course it will look like the person is fighting everyone, well no shit. (:
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calling out someone for absolutely zero reason besides a personal vendetta (multiple times btw) and insulting everyone who disagrees with their opinion, has nothing to do with "what we are doing here". it's not the same, and it will never be, ever. OP is getting a bit of a reality check for once, since the suspension wasn't enough to understand
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Believe what you want. But you didn't have to throw insults. ^^
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oh and btw, i think you forgot to call out OP again, since once again I got insulted, but you just decided to silent BL me for disagreeing with you, and once again, side with someone who doesnt bring anything good here. Thanks!
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Dear, you joined the discussion with an insult. That's all... I did not bring up anything about BL's.
Why do you care about my BL and, in a way, call me out for it (with what is essentially a guess) ?
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don't call me "dear", you know 0 about me and my life. I'm a stranger to you.
And i'm not calling you out, I'm telling you straight to the point you clearly have preferences and it's okay, you don't have to agree with me, but doing it silently and unfairly and not even admiting to it is even worse, I hope you know that.
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Dear, this is indeed calling out. Silently? Unfairly? Not admitting to it? Dear lord, what are you even rambling about. XD
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You are a lost cause. 1 correction though. By mod in that comment I'm speaking about Bartee (a barter moderator). Unless somehow you have proof it's some user here (because I don't) then it's NOT calling out. You have to BE here to get called out. That's an example in a discussion in the link. Since they aren't a member what are we discussing?
And decide what's calling out and what it's not.. Because regardless of your wannabe insults, your sentences are blank.
PS: stop trying to make me sound like a victim. I'm not. But I'm allowed to disagree and state what I see wrong
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If you feel someone is breaking the rules, you should be filing a ticket, NOT creating threads about it.
You can continue to play this off as "some people are getting away with blah blah blah", But those of us who were witness to your suspension know what this is really about. I'd suggest you move on, before you dig a permanent hole for yourself.
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It's ok :) Don't worry about me :) And if I'm gone, all the more chances for you to win! You don't have something to lose so please keep your advice to yourself :)
I'm not discussing any suspension or ticket. Where do you get that from? And like I asked another user. When something 100% breaks the rules and nothing is being done, what do you do? Since reporting IS our only option as we aren't allowed to call them out? Although.. Some are as I see here and elsewhere.. Hence my thread. Now if you have something to contribute, let me know. If you want to keep the chat up, contact me elsewhere, this isn't a pm
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You're right. Why behave like a rational adult when you can simply double down on stupid in front of the entire community?
I mean, you can always say your boyfriend sat down and wrote all the comments later.
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Nice, another rational adult just threw an insult.
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Because you don't understand something doesn't make it an insult.
https://tractionrealestatementors.com/doubling-down-on-stupidity/
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Same can be said for you. Although, you are refering to 1 comment that was a transfer of words. I never went around trying to correct anything. I didn't care for it and I never will. Who said anything about denial?
Feel free to stop going off topic, spamming, trying to insult/offend/play smart and reply to the topic instead of trying to derail it and make it a manifesto/pm.
It really is what it is :) And it has nothing to do with 1-2-3 specific users.
How many suspensions have you gotten, if any? :)
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Tells me to stay on topic, goes off topic ... but okay.
I've been suspended four times.
Two I definitely deserved.
One was overturned after discussing with a moderator.
The last (technically the first) was for this comment. 24 hours.
I keep my issues with support -- and I've had many, feel free to ask them -- off the forums.
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Yes, sec, let me go drop them a PM from my messages in SG!.......
I didn't ask you for fun about your suspensions. It has to do with what I asked you from the start. What if you couldn't reach anybody? What if the ticket system wasn't working at all as intended? What would you do?
Basically, it's about this that I wrote above and you totally skipped and went right into wannabe "advices" and "insults" :
"When something 100% breaks the rules and nothing is being done, what do you do? Since reporting IS our only option as we aren't allowed to call them out? Although.. Some are as I see here and elsewhere.. " from https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/wwXmP2E
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What if the ticket system wasn't working at all as intended? What would you do?
Report and chill. The world will continue to exist. The mods are volunteers. Is this the only forum/Discord server you are in which is slowly/barely moderated? If yes, believe me, there are way more. Of course you can ask cg to add more mods to improve the situation, but if he doesn't want to or doesn't find proper candidates, then it won't work. And I don't even see that question/suggestion in this thread..
Instead it sounds more like claiming "intentional double standards", because you or are others were punished for other things and it perhaps happened faster back then? Tough luck!
Regarding the only example you brought up, the affiliate coupon: It was removed from the user after they had figured it out, thus you can't even prove an intention.
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You happen to send user reports sometimes? I'm not saying all of them, but the mod team is full of individuals with double standards. No I haven't been suspended yet, so that isn't why I say this. This post is pretty much an accumulated reaction.
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Rarely, because I don't encounter wrong things that often anymore, since I had stopped entering GAs and barely doing giveaways. My and the general forum activity went down within the last years, too. But when I did, mostly pretty bad stuff like racism, it was taken care of.
There are 1.2M users on this website, of course only a small percentage of that is currently active and an even smaller regarding discussions, but do you really think that the mods are known with so many people that they base a majority of their decisions on personal feelings towards the user? Because that would be the base for double standards, right?
There might be some cases, moderators are humans, too. And if they encounter a report about a user who broke rules before or with whom they had a bad argument recently, they might be a bit biased. In the second case it would be better to let another mod deal with it.
The thing missing here is transparency and I brought that up before. Because then people would have insights why the mod decided like this in a certain case and like that in another. Details can make a difference.
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The world will continue to exist no matter what. So.. What about it? I know the mods are volunteers. Nobody forced them to become mods though, paid or no, they have something to do and like in everything, it has to be done right.
It's not only that it's slow. It's preferential at the very least. IF they even read the report and not just close it and move on (and if you think this isn't happening, it is). And I won't even start with what happens if it's vs any mod. Now, add it's near next to impossible to get to a higher mods attention and voila!
Yeah, add me the to rest of the site as a +1 on we need more and better mods. See how well that works :) CG won't do anything with "signatures".
You are describing a mentality that I really dislike as, in the end, all are in vain so we should be apathetic to everything as we can do nothing. Honestly, if that's what you think (because this is a site, but view on life goes along all aspects in life), why/how do you wake up every day and pass each day?
Tough luck for sure! But I'm gonna go ahead of you or someone else that might comment the "suck it up and if you don't like it go", that the same can be said in reverse. You chose to open this topic. I didn't force you. Let alone comment. And no, I have no intention of ever stopping to try for things and accept everything as they come without a hint of critical thinking. That's no way to live.. Internet or outside of it.. Meh
As for the coupon: it doesn't matter it's down. It was stated inside, it was in the title, yet nobody cares for X rule BUT whenever they want or feel bad "cry" for Y rule. With the site being as it is double standards shouldn't be allowed. Same goes for all those group/game/curator ads, store/site ads and so on. Not because I care for ads (I don't mind them) but because you either have or don't have rules. Personally, I don't even want rules or "enforcers". I prefer guidelines and "society" adjusting itself. But for this to work, too much work in society is needed and it's another convo. So, back on topic, since we DO have rules it should be equal for all. And we shouldn't throw the towel and try for nothing better. Then again.. With your viewpoint, I shouldn't even get out of bed as eventually I will die of old age..
PS: Intention doesn't matter 100% (same goes for accidents with victims, unintentional is just less "time/money/etc")
Edit: And I can't bring more examples due to the calling out rule. And there is a good reason most use it to "hide" behind or to not allow for others to show
Edit 2: I'm slowly editing typos (damn phone)
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they have something to do and like in everything, it has to be done right.
Yes, although I would word it like "as good as possible". Nobody's perfect and if you would dismiss every moderator after one mistake, you might end up with 0 mods at all. Woudn't improve the situation, right?
It's preferential at the very least. IF they even read the report and not just close it and move on (and if you think this isn't happening, it is).
Oh, I can imagine that. If 20 people report a racist posting, does the mod really need to answer them all? If you would enforce that, it would become a copy/paste answer. Who needs that? You can only judge whether the mods "only read it if at all" for your own reports and those of your closest friends. Thus it's an impression of your subjective bubble, not a statistic analysis.
Transparency not only for reporting users, but also for everyone else would be there if the posting would become collapsed and a moderation remark would be added instead. The community would notice that something happened, in best case it would be reasoned and it would serve as deterrence.
You are describing a mentality that I really dislike as, in the end, all are in vain so we should be apathetic to everything as we can do nothing. Honestly, if that's what you think (because this is a site, but view on life goes along all aspects in life), why/how do you wake up every day and pass each day?
Oh, looks like you don't know much about me (not blaming), because otherwise you wouldn't have misinterpreted my previous posting like this. Look at my profile picture, look at my postings in former threads regarding politics, petitions or moderation and you will find a lot of activity and criticism. That we don't know much about each other despite contact here in the forum and by trading also proves a point of my argumentation towards duville: the moderators don't know that many users either and thus can't really base most of their decisions on personal sympathy.
I wrote it that way, because you were dramatizing before ("What if you couldn't reach anybody? What if the ticket system wasn't working at all as intended? What would you do?") and the mods are actually working on tickets, which you can observe by looking at the support stats.
Your only given example was very recent, 1-2 days before you created this thread. Considering the amount of tickets the mods have to work on here (way more than in other forums due to giveaways) that's not really patient in my eyes. And you directly used it to imply double standards. The reference to other forums was also to show that SG is still a niche website. Despite cg earning money with it and me also being sceptical regarding the relation between earnings and efforts, this is not a professional Reddit where you can expect fast and proper moderation. Try to sue him over that. :D
Despite the amount of your postings in this thread I only saw one constructive suggestion: improving rules/guidelines, although no details were given. You didn't ask for more mods, you didn't ask for more transparency, automated giveaway moderation, a change regarding sanctions or anything else. That and the only given example make it appear as a rant about subjectively felt injustice ("I was punished, so others have to be punished as well"), unproven double standards and an included attack on your "arch enemy".
And before you repeat yourself: yes, you could bring up other examples by describing them (like you did with the coupon). No links or names needed, just describe what happened, what mods did, how they replied to your report if at all, and another situation where they acted differently. If you're lucky and one of the affected mods reads it, they might even reply and elaborate (happened in the past in such topics).
Intention doesn't matter 100% (same goes for accidents with victims, unintentional is just less "time/money/etc")
Difficult comparison. Ignorance of law is no defense, but it was no ignorance regarding the rule, it was missing knowledge about the voucher. The rules and guidelines don't list sanctions, the mods have assessment about it. Thus I wouldn't be surprised if a mod who had seen that report in time would have just removed the coupon from the thread title and posting, but not sanctioning the user for it. And if the user hadn't had any similar records before (advertisement), I view that as very reasonable.
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1-2-5-10 and so on mistakes can happen. If they are corrected, matters more. Here we aren't talking for 1 mistake or even 10 or 100.. And only a tiny fraction gets corrected.
I suck at formatting + I'm from mobile so I hope you will understand to what I'm answering each time.
"20 racist reports for the same guy / reply to all"
The user reports don't even get comments. They are turned off by default. You have to manually go see if something was done.
So no.. I wouldn't expect them to reply, not to all, but, to anyone at all.
When racistic, misogynistic, illegal, threatening, bullying and so on messages get reported and mods close them because they are bored of the drama it's not the same thing. When mods go out on a witch hunt of members and bully them on posts, it's not the same thing. When mods cover each other, also isn't the same thing. Especially when we have no way to escalate the issue or contact them. Not all of the above are personal experiences but they can be proven more easily than the sun. Same for bias and preferential treatment.
They might not know the majority of the users, they do know some..
+1 to the mods/rules/site design needs changing.. Good luck making CG deal with it. So I'm trying to see my other options with what we already have. And I have called on various posts in the thread and given as less "calling out" as possible examples for them to view. And it becomes an even bigger problem when the majority of the mods don't care and shouldn't even be at that position or are biased already.
So.. Yeah.. Let me go create a couple more tickets that get insta closed and I get the reply "I don't want drama, I didn't read, bye" or when to try and escalate a ticket/report a mod aaand of course it will never reach the ears of those who could do something about it.
"Your only example"
It wasn't even my example. Others used it first. I was talking generally about it including ads in posts/games/groups/sites/self promo and so on which in turn has to do about how mods do their "job" which in turns is about all the rest. It's a vicious circle and it's only 1 aspect. I won't even touch the chat quality and other giveaway practices including groups/member types and so on. Making a list from here to the moon will help noone. On the contrary, if we at least had clean mods, it would work a bit better.
"mods working tickets" you can't see which or how they handle them. Simply closing them isn't handling.. Double standards and wishing to not land on a vendictive mod shouldn't even be a thought. You see why even the fact that we have to speak about this is problematic?
"difficlut comparison. Ignorance of law is no defense"
True, it's debatable. But how can they see from aaaall those members if something similar has been done before? It's not like a database exists other than the suspension list so.. You see yet another loophole? And how in the end it can be disastrous?
The thing is we all know that many stuff need changing. But nothing changes (taking 5-10 years is senseless). So.. Yeah, I'm asking alternative solutions and trying to raise enough voice for someone to notice. But you are wrong in thinking that this is exclusively because of 1 incident or for an "enemy". While I don't like said person (obviously), you are making my post too cheap by keep mentioning that. It happened to fit an example others gave. It could had been anyone else.. I don't care WHO did it but why the mods aren't doing anything (about anything) let alone in time.. Except reroll tickets.. And the occasional 0 cv/add to list/demand feedback/delete giveaways etc
But "tough luck" go and say it to people waiting for years.. And then wonder why the site stats are going down..
PS: I didn't say it was your mentality. I said that you are describing a mentality and IF you believe it how you go on about each day. I have seen very few of your posts and only remember 1 about curators. And no, I can't really search.. The site doesn't offer any good option for it.
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I suck at formatting + I'm from mobile so I hope you will understand to what I'm answering each time.
No worries. You could have also taken your time, it's not like the topic is going away. :)
You have to manually go see if something was done.
So no.. I wouldn't expect them to reply, not to all, but, to anyone at all.
Yes, but in the end it means the same: send 20 replies or state a comment in 20 reports. And if you pick one, which? The first, the last or the one from a user you like? If the report is based on a comment, easiest would be to check the comment (was it removed?) and the user (suspension?). If it's based on some kind of behaviour and more complicated, I would expect a reply, yes. But e.g., I got replies to all my reroll tickets. Some took a day, but most were done quicker. And I don't think that I'm mods' darling.
When mods go out on a witch hunt of members and bully them on posts, it's not the same thing. When mods cover each other, also isn't the same thing. Especially when we have no way to escalate the issue or contact them. Not all of the above are personal experiences but they can be proven more easily than the sun. Same for bias and preferential treatment.
Have you ever been a mod/admin of discussion board or alike with let's say 500 recently active users at least? I'm not asking to say you aren't allowed to criticise if not, but to figure out if you know the other side of the story.
From my experience there's a lot that is likely to be mixed up by users. E.g. users often don't differ between a mod in its mod role and its user role. Mods are users as well and thus will participate in discussions like a "normal" user. One can improve that by using a unique format when doing moderation remarks, but unfortunately that's not done here.
If it's actual bullying, I agree with you. If it's just a contrary opinion or criticism, I don't. Even if it's repetitive: mods are supposed to read as much as they can and thus might also react more often then regular users. In my 9 years I only observed 3 out of the current 22 mods reacting rudely/harshly or behaving questionably at a few times (in public discussions, of course, I can't judge what I don't see). That's a minority.
If a mod was actually witch hunting, I would expect more users to rant about it. Now if it's just you, it actually sounds like a personal drama between you and another person. And mods aren't responsible for personal drama.
Covering up: I don't know how the mods are organised here, but usually the staff is a team. They work together, they share tasks. Due to their work they know each other better than they know regular users. That doesn't mean automatically that they react biased and they surely discuss such topics internally. And if one mod feels not at ease, they probably ask others or superior mods to take over. That they happen to agree on cases doesn't mean necessarily covering up, but that it's the correct interpretation of a rule and the user's behaviour.
Escalation: If the ticket escalation doesn't work, you could contact superior mods by messages in their giveaways if it's actually required. There even is an email address, although it's meant for privacy related issues. But as usual, it's more important how you say something, not what. Do you really expect any mod to reply here if you continue with claims like "majority [...] shouldn't even be at that position" or "if we at least had clean mods"? Would you be motivated to react on something like that in your free time?
Simply closing them isn't handling..
That's again based only on your reports or an insinuation, unless you stand behind the mods and watch what they are doing.
But how can they see from aaaall those members if something similar has been done before? It's not like a database exists other than the suspension list so
How do you know? I would expect them to have an internal forum in which especially difficult decisions or changes in moderation are being discussed. And even a new mod can look through this or ask a more experienced mod about it.
It happened to fit an example others gave.
You gave it in your very first reply to Mayanaise, just two minutes after duville, so it appears like that. If there is so much going wrong in moderation according to you, why exactly that case? Weird coincidence.
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I jump quickly in with a few details because you know Masafor knows/sees all ;o).
The "witch hunt mod" bash a few users that he don't like. Not liking is ok, using his power to make support ticket infos and other infos public, insult, harass/bully, provoke, calling out etc. isn't. All happened mutiple times, always with/against the same users and nothing happened after multiple reports of multiple users and other mods. At least not in a way that the users would see something. Besides that he don't got promoted to a higher mod rank for a very long time.
I never seen that this special mod done some mod work (handling tickets, calm people down, explain rules etc.) and it is unclear for many why such a user is, still, a mod. He is was quiet since a longer timeframe, so maybe he got his fingers slapped but in the end none need such a user as mod when he do no work and clearly shown, multiple times, that a power position is the wrongest place he should be.
But he is in the end not a big problem (and not one with Luck. -Ok it changed a few hours ago as it looks-) but it is such a obvious case that it is a perfect example that nothing/not enough happen and rules don't get enforced equal(ly).
Simply closing them isn't handling..
That's again based only on your reports or an insinuation, unless you stand behind the mods and watch what they are doing.
It happened, more as one time, and mods told it (of course not public). I seen it by myself but i will, of course, not say names.
And it is extreme frustrating when a mod close tickets without to do something AND without that you know in the end if it was because the mods seen it as not breaking the rules/not necessary to do something or if he had no motivation, don't like drama, had a bad day or whatever and closed the ticket only to lower the ticket number (or whatever reason).
This way you never know IF a ticket got really read and handled or not.
For the user report tickets the mods don't have the possibility to write something, which doesn't help because of the reasons above.
Don't get me wrong, the majority of the mods try to do a good mod job and i am thankful for it but it can't be the solution that you need to pray that not mod XYZ handle (or maybe only close) your ticket(s).
How do you know? I would expect them to have an internal forum in which especially difficult decisions or changes in moderation are being discussed. And even a new mod can look through this or ask a more experienced mod about it.
Yes, they have a discussion area as we here and they can discuss stuff + add notes to user profiles.
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Thanks, Masafor!
"witch hunt mod"
I guess it's one of the three I mentioned before and I agree that this shouldn't happen. When it comes to public situations, the community should be able to organise themselves to make staff aware of this mischief, especially because other moderators doing a good job suffer from this situation.
Added you for further exchange.
It happened, more as one time, and mods told it (of course not public).
I'm pretty sure that this happened, but I don't think it's a general behaviour. And yes, as I mentioned before, imho transparency is very important for successful moderation. Would I handle it differently? Yes. But no reply doesn't mean automatically that it wasn't read or that the mod working on it wasn't up for doing it properly.
For the user report tickets the mods don't have the possibility to write something, which doesn't help because of the reasons above.
That's unfortunate, because it would make it easier, but we all know how to contact someone.. so that's not really an excuse, is it?
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There is a reason I keep "screaming" that not being able to freely post examples is an issue for this discussion (yet now you ask me to "prove" to you which you know it can't be done without a pic). And your reply shows just that. On top of it, others call out just fine.. But do trust me that if I do the same or a small slip up, there will be problems 🙂
One thing you are confusing is the type of reports I'm talking about; I speak only for user reports. Not reroll tickets or whatnot. Same goes for reporting a mod that the same rank IS allowed to close the ticket. Where else have you seen that?
Also, https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/Qru4QUX , what do you think will happen if I report it? He is going to get suspended?.. Consider and 2 fast examples and on this thread https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/FDpCmPE and https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/fbTPdaD which also got closed because somebody didn't wanna deal with drama..
Many users rant about stuff but.. When you are suspended or banned or same rank mods help each other you expect to hear much? Especially with a mob mentality that many hear have?
Masa covered a lot of the issues. As for how and what I know.. That's tricky. ButI would be so bold if I couldn't back my words up to a person that counts.
As for my mod experience, yes, I have been a mod in a high activity forum. I'm moderating on and off for the past 17 years various forums (and discord lately) so yeah, I'm very familiar with all types of problems.
Regardless of the example, it happened to be the most recent and the first mention by others. But it isn't the only one and it's clear that I'm concerned about how things are handled and not who did what.
Somewhere you mention if I would be motivated. Yes. My likes never went above what I should do. But what I would do doesn't matter.
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There is a reason I keep "screaming" that not being able to freely post examples is an issue
I get that. There is no subforum for criticism regarding website/staff, just suggestions. There is the rule about not calling out (although it's actually not directly listed in the rules anymore, instead privacy of other users is, see this thread for a recent example of an outsider being called out and my question, but also the replies I got: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/MgZY9/fraud).
However, one can describe incidents without direct links or names (as mentioned before and others did). Personally, I would even go further and say the rule about calling out doesn't really affect mods when it comes to the mod role, because that makes them a person of interest on this website.
One thing you are confusing is the type of reports I'm talking about
Nah, I didn't confuse it, but I can only share experience I had and there were also sentences about bad moderation behaviours without connection to user reports all the time.
Somewhere you mention if I would be motivated. Yes. My likes never went above what I should do. But what I would do doesn't matter.
Oh, come on! It's not about doing or not doing at all. In an earlier posting you wrote: "It's preferential at the very least". Of course that happens. If you have 1000 reports in front of you and you decided to spend one hour working on moderation today, you'll have to filter. Now the most objective way would be to just start with the oldest reports. But we aren't bots, we are humans. And if there is someone known as a pedant or being overdramatic or however you want to call it, you might skip it for now, because it annoys you or you know that it will require a lot of time in which you could work on several others. You know "The boy who cried wolf"?
Imagine a rule breaker now being on a revenge trip and do 20 reports a day just for fun. How much time would you spend on these? How much would you continue spending on these after having processed the first three and noticed that they are nonsense?
Similarly, that you get a backlash here in this thread, doesn't come from nowhere. Have you reflected and asked yourself why that could be? Or why everone got it wrong that it's not about the coupon? You can say "they are all too stupid to understand me" and go on, but you could also ask yourself what you could have done better. Wording, examples and so on.
Regarding the links you brought up: I agree on the first one and reported it. I disagree regarding the other two.
Golwar is definitely not known as misogynistic, besides of personal friends noone can really know whether you are female or not and it shouldn't be of interest anyway, and "Karens" is a meme that is used en masse, although not always accurate and also only describing a small group of persons, thus it's nothing against all women.
The third posting is bad, but just the typical talk of people not liking each other and then getting personal. Claiming you had an empty or sad life or being toxic is not a direct insult and you can see it all over the web. If that really offends you, you gotta work on being more resilient or on your ignoring capability (or use the ignore funtionality ESGST is supposed to offer). If I was a mod and you would argue endlessly, I'd probably close the thread and tell both of you to continue that shit in private, because noone else cares. But that doesn't justify a suspension because of insult.
That you reported all three, leads to the impression that you probably write a lot of reports and only a few of them are actually valid. There we are at how this might look from staff view again and why your reports might be taken with a grain of salt.
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I don't have much time atm so I'll try to be brief and to the point.
What you are describing brings us back to my title. Aka has the calling out rule being changed? If yes, to what extent? This is where a mod would be useful. Same for "toxicity" levels. Because this is becoming toooo subjective and each mod/user reacts too random and some getting suspended while others no for much worse goes to double standards (and abuse of power + bias etc)
Prioritising tickets is different than not handling or ignoring. Critical thinking plays a big factor too.
Karen meme: being a popular stereotype doesn't make it ok. Also, it was very specific and not even used satirical. Double standards: calling a store gypsy yielded an uproar. Somehow Karen is better?
Crap comment: double standards. What I mind doesn't matter. But I can't reply at the same level and I have already been suspended for much MUCH less. Meanwhile racistic, misogynistic, vile comments still no suspension. So yeah, bias is a thing when the mod himself admits it and shows it crystal clear from his words.
Drama closing reports without reading: It has happened. But without clear rules and proper channels, posting a pic wouldn't it be.. Against the rules? Mods aren't public figures and not everything is an SG post.
To sum it up from the beginning:
You have mods that are beyond crap and others visibly biased abusing their powers to suspend. Meanwhile, far worse things remain hanging on the air.
You have mods closing tickets to cover fellow mods of the same rank non the less and to avoid drama because they are bored and don't like it.
You have mods offending and doing nothing.
Then you have and some ok mods but swamped due to the volume of work.
Then you have rules that get followed partially and are heavily abused but both members and mods.
Somehow, you want me to be a saint (as a user / I'm not a mod here to have to do that) but at the same time you set me apart while you "let all mods off the hook" for the same reason "come on! They are human"
Don't mistake my post for "revenge" or "seeking justice" or whatever. I'm simply asking literally asking what has been change, when and what stands now.
Same with the ads. Because that example happens to be perfect for what I'm saying. Everybody bend whatever and "cry wolf" as you said for far less. You see how something like this can't work?
Then you have mods and members "witch hunting" and/or having a mob mentality.
You told me to suck it up in a way before but I could say the same thing to you for not "wanting to hear me"
Things would had been very different if we could ALL reply and act the same.
I'm not negative btw. Merely slightly annoyed. It troubles me tbh how we keep going in circles about stuff I have already said OR are in my title and first post.
PS: I know it feels strange to you for mods to not care about their likings but.. It happens :)
(I might be forgetting about something. If I did, let me know)
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Aka has the calling out rule being changed? If yes, to what extent? This is where a mod would be useful. Same for "toxicity" levels. Because this is becoming toooo subjective and each mod/user reacts too random and some getting suspended while others no for much worse goes to double standards (and abuse of power + bias etc)
Last change of guidelines: 7 months ago (and only regarding militrary conflicts). So it's been like this for even longer. Since I haven't been very active since 2019, I only noticed recently. But more active users should have noticed and questioned it before.
Insults, harasssment, hatespeech have always been ambiguous and subjective. You would have to compile a list of all forbidden words to make it objective, nobody does that.
Karen meme: being a popular stereotype doesn't make it ok. Also, it was very specific and not even used satirical. Double standards: calling a store gypsy yielded an uproar. Somehow Karen is better?
It's not about the popularity and I didn't reason it by that, I only mentioned it. The reason is that it doesn't refer to all women. The meme describes a negative behaviour (being pedantic, excessively demanding), whereas "gypsy" is insulting an ethnicity.
What I mind doesn't matter. But I can't reply at the same level and I have already been suspended for much MUCH less.
If you mind too much, it's a you problem. I don't know your suspensions, so I can't judge. But I wouldn't want to reply on that level, because it's not my level. If they are that cheap, let them be. You shouldn't want to be like that.
Somehow, you want me to be a saint (as a user / I'm not a mod here to have to do that) but at the same time you set me apart while you "let all mods off the hook" for the same reason "come on! They are human"
Saint? Nobody has to be a saint. Not even mods. They should be good examples for community members, but that's it. Regarding you: I didn't ask you to not behave like you do, not my place. I tried to explain why it adds to the problem. If you understand and adjust a bit or not, that's totally up to you.
It troubles me tbh how we keep going in circles
You don't have to answer, you're not obliged. But looking at this thread you apparently like to reply to everyone/-thing. :D
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The meme shows a type of woman. That meme has end up being used for every woman (and men when they want to extra insult them as "little bitches" -> extra yikes factor here) that might say anything that an extra caps Y-EEEEEE-SSSSS MASTERRRRRRRRR. You might be unaware of it.
This in turn concerns more than half the planet instead a few million (at the very very best.. Might be less) and it's exactly the same thing. A stereotype.
I'd argue Karen actually being worse due to vast use over every little thing. But in its base, it's nothing but vengeful.
I don't like to reply to all. But I'm trying to discuss something and since I opened the ropic, it makes sense I have extra interest.
But no, I stand by "we are going in circles". Imo, this is due to the "I don't care since it doesn't do something to me + I gain from it + Since all are doing it, why even bother, nothing is gonna change". Which is something I'm always against 100%. But semantics.. You don't want to see the difference.
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Well, if someone lives on Twitter, ehm X, I can imagine that they encounter it very often. I'm old school, I don't give two cents on the new social media. I also like language and would always prefer a proper description over a meme or a new Internet slang abbreviation. In my personal social environment Karen is used less than 5 times a year and usually under somewhat fitting circumstances, but admittedly we have other and more precise words for that behaviour in German. Just because people use it differently, it doesn't change the definition. And if you want to know how someone using it means it, you will have to ask that someone to be sure.
But we are on Steamgifts, so we should focus on that. And if what you said was true, many OPs of threads in the suggestions category should have been called a "Karen". I just don't see that. Instead I only see "don't get your hopes up", which is based considering the history of SG.
"I gain from it"
Now you're making me curious. What do I personally gain from a supposedly bad moderation?
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I'm old school, I don't give two cents on the new social media.
What interests you isn't the issue. If it's problematic generally is the issue. Believe it or not, it is. You can google the "academic" details.
And if you want to know how someone using it means it, you will have to ask that someone to be sure.
This isn't necessarily true. Not every sentence is ambiguous.
And if what you said was true, many OPs of threads in the suggestions category should have been called a "Karen". I just don't see that.
And if someone else had told them that, you'd be seeing pitchforks depending on who likes who. Which is and what we are going back and forth for absolutely no reason. There are double standars depending on who speaks, who reports, who gets the report. Unless you somehow believe that it's fine for the moderation to act in whatever way and only "enforce" the rules when it suits them or when some aren't bored or by plain luck of were your ticket landed (and if they were on a good mood).
Now you're making me curious. What do I personally gain from a supposedly bad moderation?
I nowhere said you gain from bad moderation. I said "you gain from it". My point, to explain it simply, was that you are indifferent to this since it doesn't affect you. You "gain" from SG (be it ga's, bundle info, region locks for trading, whatever else) so have no motivation or personal reason to care about moderation. So I don't even understand why fuss about this thread or my comments. Is this easier to understand maybe? With different wording?
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What interests you isn't the issue. If it's problematic generally is the issue. Believe it or not, it is. You can google the "academic" details.
I brought up my personal experience, because you had described your personal impression first. Now if you had linked several academic studies about the usage of the meme Karen to support your claim ("used for every woman"), I would have reacted differently.
This isn't necessarily true. Not every sentence is ambiguous.
Generally speaking? No, of course not. But this isn't about a factual statement, yet a personal impression. Even funnier, because he didn't even call you a Karen, but did a comparison..the rest is personal interpretation.
There are double standars depending on who speaks, who reports, who gets the report.
Or maybe "how they speak, report"? But that's what you ignore. You only see "other person" and then derive that it has to be because of popularity or friendship. Not saying that it doesn't play any role at all, but there can be many factors.
My point, to explain it simply, was that you are indifferent to this since it doesn't affect you. You "gain" from SG (be it ga's, bundle info, region locks for trading, whatever else) so have no motivation or personal reason to care about moderation.
I got it the first time, but was wondering about your reasoning. I'm not indifferent. Moderation affects me. I read discussions here. Discussions are moderated, users I like or dislike might be suspended due to it. Some discusssions have been closed in the past, although I would have liked to participate in there. And although it hasn't happened yet, my comments could be moderated as well.
If I was indifferent, I also wouldn't have reported the one comment you had linked.
There is no fuss about your comments. I just felt you were exaggerating and disagreed with you. That happens in discussions.
But yeah, it looks like nothing comes across, so this was my last attempt here.
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if you had linked several academic studies
I don't have enough free time for that. But you can easily google this one.
But this isn't about a factual statement, yet a personal impression.
That's the thing though. It isn't about what I personally think about the meme. Which goes back to google
You only see "other person" and then derive that it has to be because of popularity or friendship. Not saying that it doesn't play any role at all, but there can be many factors.
Of course there can be other factors. But usually, it's those 3. And no, I can't link you user reports to "show" you that. Feel free to believe all in done with the purest intentions despite countless examples over the years (that I won't go dig up for you; I simply have no time or interest to waste that much time for nothing). Even if you check the forums briefly, it shows on many occasions.
I got it the first time, but was wondering about your reasoning. I'm not indifferent.
If you had gotten it, you wouldn't had asked me "What do I personally gain from a supposedly bad moderation?" https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/mIri58Y
But I clarified and you are still asking me when I already replied that. Unless something in my wording isn't clear enough.
I just felt you were exaggerating and disagreed with you. That happens in discussions.
But yeah, it looks like nothing comes across, so this was my last attempt here.
It happens. People disagree. What I'm wondering though is if you agree with the majority of the points that were brought up either by me or someone else here and in similar discussions. Obviously we can't all agree on everything 100%. We'd be robots at best :P
I do understand were you are getting at. But nitpicking on the tree and missing the forest isn't worth it.
See you around!
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What would you do?
I already answered this question. Keep it to support tickets or MOVE ON. Did I feel the need to make a thread when I felt my ticket wasn't enough? Hell no. And thank fuck not everyone feels their grievances require a thread to try and rally the community behind them. Seriously, how's that working out for you?
I gave you good advice. But fuck, don't take it, Crucify yourself as the first SG martyr. I won't even notice when you're gone, and neither will anyone else.
I'm not wasting any more time reading ridiculous self-aggrandizing word salad because an angry child got their hand slapped and can't handle it, then continues to double-down on their bullshit premise. It's not even clever. It's pathetic.
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So you would keep creating tickets upon tickets for the same thing hoping it will magically work? There is a definition for that. Trying the same thing under the same circumstances and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
Trying to rally?.. That's rich xD For what?
No, I'm trying to discuss and raise awareness and maybe see if something can be done/if someone will hear (from the staff). I'm addressing a problem. If that's rallying to you then something is seriously off..
But it's not MY grievance. Every 2 threads someone complaints for a side of this problem. I created 1 topic about it BUT I won't give examples due to the calling out issue.. Unless something change. Which is the damn title question :)
You didn't give me anything, nor I would ever need you. I'm not a martyr, I'm not a victim and I also don't care who cares or who doesn't. But.. Why are you so hell bent into turning this thread about me when it's anything BUT that?.. It's baffling
(you see if this was about me I COULD give examples :D)
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Are we really complaining over someone, who spends a lot of their time to assist the community here, for saving everyone 5%? Pathetic.
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It's not about a discount coupon. Feel free to read above if things aren't clear
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"this shift won't end very well imo..."
You're right, most likely it will not, cause more and more of us are getting sick and tired of your constant attacks on sensualshakti.
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I didn't mentioned her. It's not about her. Feel free to read above if you didn't understand
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That you didn't mention her, doesn't mean, that you are not again talking about her. Your obsession is not only stupid, but also boring, like listening to complains by a rejected lover :(.
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I'm actually actively trying to stop people from mentioning her as it doesn't matter (for the purposes of this thread) how did what but only that X situation happened. You can read above what the thread is about. You should stop detailing for no reason or mentioning users instead of what I'm saying.
And do so without wannabe insults :) What happens here is exactly what I'm talking about. And it certainly isn't about me and any other user that somebody tries to paint as a feud. I couldn't care less for this atm.
Feel free to read again and comment on the issue and NOT on something I said nowhere nor interests me in the least. Differently reply to some other user
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Yup, sure... and obviously you are a flying pink elephant as well ;)
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I'm tired of seeing conspiracy theories everywhere. I already see enough of it in my everyday life, I don't need to see it on Steamgifts. Can we please stop feeding the trolls?
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There's no way someone can get this riled up because of some affiliate code being shared. But then I don't understand what else is going on here?
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Yeah, because it's not about a coupon.. We all got so fixated on the coupon is actually beyond me.. I mentioned ads, calling out and unfairness later on. My thread is about the rules and what's gets enforced. I don't really see why I should keep posting the same thing when it's already written way too many times WITHIN the thread..
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cg really should get something like SG5 code... Would solve a lot.
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I feel like if a person is constantly putting in the work to create useful threads for us they deserve to profit off their own affiliate link/code.
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Understandable but this thread isn't about a coupon or a specific person. I'm bringing up a different issue and this was brought up as an example
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I'm confused. Where are you seeing soo much advertising, that it has you triggered?
Only ads i see, are the ones at the bottom for fanatical, and rarely those, as i use ESGST with "infinite scroll" selected.
Are there any other ads on SG? I'm here every day, and if they're here, they suck, as i completely tune them out.
Now if you want to complain about the annoying ads on reddit made to look like normal posts, then i'm totally right there with you on being triggered!!!
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It's funny how some people use their free time and make the most of it
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How many Blacklist you got already since your thread posted @LuckyStrike1305? :D lmao..
People here are tend to use some of the discount code, no need to debatin'...
If ads happen, just comment under it, maybe staffs gonna help u and handle it. Btw, you ain't specific enough, the debate will keeps on going. The case is clear that you complaint against discount code that actually someone's code... Throw some then... People will love it.. Happy debating :D
Oh anyway, if a small developer made an announcement and posted a thread here in discussion thread about their new released game, is it Advertisement for you, mate? Think about it...
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I'm guessing many but who cares? Because I won't be able to enter some giveaways? IF those even make one? Why would I remotely care about it?
Before you start typing more random stuff, learn to read.. But by seeing how you talk, I'm not expecting much. "Right y'all"??!
Funny that you care that much about a discount considering how much you are trying to flex. Then again.. It makes sense for you to care that much considering your stats and games..
Just like many others here, "it's all about saving 50 cents! I'm gonna sell all my morals for 50 cents!"
And the thread isn't even about ads. It's about rules not being followed and mods doing whatever THUS RESULTING in ads, calling outs and many many more. It's not so difficult to understand really :)
Yeah, sure here take a coupon! I'm a charity after all.. I must depend on random forums instead of actually looking up what I need within the place I need it and then beg strangers for coupons.
And yes. It is advertisement. Whether I mind it or not, is irrelevant. Better go knock on CG door and hope he answers to change the rules finally and fit your liking.
Because many are using the "it's more beneficial for the community" argument and you are hinting at it as well:
So make the rules reflect that. But double standards, apathy, logic going out the window and so on, won't cut it. To leave stuff up to interpretation when you aren't ready to moderate it OR you don't leave it make it's own circle, it is a recipe for disaster. Like you
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A "mod" joining in unprovoked to throw a vulgar slur at someone, how beautiful. Please abstain from posting again.
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I guess we're normalizing the use of sexual slurs by mods against users now... 🤷🏽♂️ Yippy! How low can we sink?
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Bet. Nothing will happen. This person should've lost their mod role and should've been suspended a long time ago.
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I weren't in the condition, because of extreme pain and nearly no sleep since weeks, to react earlier.
I understand why you can't give direct examples but you should describe the one or other thing more detailed.
This would have limited the wild assumings from some users about the fanatical coupon/ref/aff thing and assuming it is something that you direct against one user.
You gave the discussion a bit less infos for a real discussion of each user because only a small fraction have enough knowledge and experience
As you seen above, when you came into real discussions, with a bit of context, that users like Myrsan, Mitsukuni, Axelflox etc. discussed on a good, friendly, level.
That would have helped with a few of the above users that commented in a negative way.
On the other hand i see a lot of the same users as in other threads before that, again, attack you as a group with insults, calling out, provoking and in general with a witch hunt.
I know that a bunch of them do this since years and it is ugly to see that they aren't stopped at some point.
My advice is to add more context, describe it a bit, to the different things you can't give complete examples and try to ignore the ones that only want to make trouble.
The most of them are attention seeking ones and their life end (= they get crazy and tilt out like they would be in the kindergarden) when you ignore them completely :o)
I assume this would lower your invested time + energy, raise your mood and raise the quality and results of the discussions.
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I could give many examples but by default I would be actively calling them out :) Nice trick..
But I'm curious.. When did this change? (and no, I'm not talking about the new Fanatical ads that's from the site, I mean ads from users in the forum itself)
Only selective few being able to say whatever and get different treatment :) Being response times to actions or by not doing anything.
While usually all seem to run smoothly (most topics being ga's), this shift won't end very well imo..
It's interesting to see what causes action and reaction and also what opinions are being tried to get silenced over the past months.
PS: This has nothing to do with me as a person, it's a general observation and I'd like to see your point of view (not that this changes anything for the average user trying to win, but it's interesting to see other opinions - it's more.. a "community issue")
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