I'm hoping this will at least stop the claims of people voting up the same people, even if people want to continue claiming they are popularity contests.
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i have honestly seen both sides entirely from the beginning. i think far less drama would of come of it, if it were done (and i mean no offense to either you or delta) more like revils anonymous route. though i understand that's not an easy task really so much, nor does it accomplish the same goal that you two would needed entirely. it would have to be something tailored just for events such as yours. tbh that's why i didn't initially do nominee's and stayed on the sidelines till i got nominated and kinda felt obligated at that point to toss a few more names in the hat. would have straight away really if it were anonymous to begin with. that privacy is an important thing to keep petty human nature at bay. i haven't yet on revils but certainly will be tossing some names there as well if they aren't alrdy on there by the time i do. =)
btw my comment was there to entice fresh nominees, not negativity. sorry i feel like almost all that's happened since is partly my fault now though. =(
also i keep feeling like i'm that person you wanna keep referring too xD lol
edits: typos
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FYI I whitelisted you because I was sure you caught some blacklists ... But hey, that's a REALLY small consolation if you did, I mean like REALLY small.
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I would have done it anonymously if I thought there was an issue! These events have happened for years with little to no problem. Added to that, as I said in the OP, I'd rather people SAW their nomination and the nice things that were said about them.
No matter who you are, reading something nice about yourself will make you happy.
Also, its totally not your fault, please don't blame yourself! Additionally theres no problem, just a healthy discussion :3. Have a great day!
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No matter who you are, reading something nice about yourself will make you happy.
Or you'll find that you're not nominated and you'll feel pretty shitty.
This is totally not a plea for someone to nominate me. I don't really care.
Or do I? lol
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Hmmm, I don't see why? No one is saying you are a terrible person, or that others are better than you?
I dunno, I can't get my head around the entire "i didn't get nominated" thing other than saying "ego", which would be totally unfair to the people saying it. I'd hope that the people who didn't get nominated had as much fun with it as everyone else! :3
I don't often get nominated for things, I still enjoy them though :3, and when I do it makes me feel nice to read appreciative comments!
All that being said, I'd hate it if someone genuinely felt bad about the entire event as its meant to be fun for everyone, not a way to make people feel down.
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No one is saying it, but it's the implication.
You're right, though. It's very nice to hear something nice that others are saying about yourself. It helps with self-esteem. I don't see how not one person having anything nice to say about someone could be damaging to their self-esteem.
Or just ignore me and my morose ramblings
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Yep.
And seeing other people get complimented time and time again probably gets to those who don't.
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Haha, that video though! I enjoyed that thanks!
Not being nominated for one event with 15 spaces in a community of thousands isn't something to feel bad about, there's been around 300 nominations give or take. That would make the majority of the community "not worthy" of nomination. That's not the case at all, it just means out of thousands, around 100 people have decided to nominate 3 people. If people really really really wanted to change things, I'd suggest voting for an "unusual" user and posting a reply as to why they voted them.
Your ramblings are more than welcome any time! :)
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that's precisely what i meant by "petty human nature at bay" =)
i'm horrible with the 7 deadly sins, but to name a few.. "envy" "jealousy" "lust" =)
it's not that i feel that way at all, but it's what almost made me not put down nominees. friends of mine i didn't nominate might feel like i don't like them as much as they thought, when that's not the case.
yes, it is very nice to see someone else say something nice about you publicly. that's where i feel the appreciation threads and the love threads are a beautiful thing.
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it's not really an issue still, it brought a small conflict of opinion, but its not an actual issue. like i said in reply to spankypie too, its not that i feel ill-will towards the event at all either, it's just the nomination itself is a little bit disconcerting when you fear you will make someone your not nominating feel jealous or envious of your choice. in fact i kinda like the concept entirely of the events, because it will cause some people to become more active. its also not that i think it should remain anonymous to you or even the public, just the who nominated who part. just as a quick example: possibly email in a list of 3 nominee's along with your steamgifts profile name, then you post them in the OP and leave who nominated out of it. still brings the same smile to faces when they see they had been nominated, and you'd probably get far more nominee's because people didn't want to make others jealous.
again though, i hold no ill feelings towards the event though at all, just wish they could be executed in a manor that can't cause those 7 deadly sins to arrive due to what someone said. there still would be jealousy and envy that people aren't on the list, but at least they won't have any place to point the finger. =)
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If anonymity was the aim for people then I'd select 15 random people, call them Bob, Dave, Jane, Sarah etc and then hold the event. However I don't want it to be anonymous, whilst I want to get 15 random people, I also want people to be able to see nice things said about themselves and other users.
You've been really measured and calm about your points, which I really appreciate. A lot of disagreeing people would have taken a different route, consider yourself whitelisted.
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not bob no! nobody ever beats bob in those events! =)
yeah, i understand though. it is rather nice to see someone say nice things about you. i just fear others that didn't have nice things said about them will take it to heart too much. not that i would have personally, i understand the nature of these events, but not everyone is as calm and understanding as that.
thanks for the whitelist, i would return but don't do white/black-lists personally =)
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Don't worry about it, I don't do WL 4 WL etc, nor do I BL 4 BL. Everyone is entitled to like or dislike me as they see fit, its my job to try and find out why and change that. Its also every users choice to use their WL and BL as they see fit too! :)
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I might nominate you for all of them, just to be a prick.
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You always make more sense than most on these forums.
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That's where I'd argue that the same nominees are deserving of their place. I didn't want to name names but seeing as he's mentioned himself...
Take Archi, he was one that was nominated in both threads. He created ASF, he is active, he leads a group who do public events, he is approachable and an all round top guy. Is it any surprise people vote him up? Is it a bad thing they do?
I must say again, the "famous" names that got nominated on both threads where very few.
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I appreciate your side of things but due to the nature of the event I only needed 15 people. There seemed no fairer way than the community choosing those 15 people.
I could just do whitelist gibs and I have done in the past but these events are for the community as a whole not just the few whitelisters i want to personally thank.
If an additional bonus to this is a few people get to say nice things about people, I struggle to see an issue.
However I respect your opposing view, even if I disagree with it.
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I wish there was an easier way, but I unfortunately don't see one.
In addition, I still don't believe the same elite core are the ones who only take part in this. Look at for example The Hunger Games events and the people involved in those, there are some names in there who haven't even been nominated here. I would like to see some proof regarding the same guys get nominated all the time rather than opinion.
I don't know what else I can do to try and influence peoples opinion other than trying to explain what I'm trying to achieve and trying to do some math behind the events. I dunno, at the end of the day, people need to keep in mind that no matter WHAT the criteria is, the main aim is to give something to someone to make them happy. Does it really matter how that is done in the grand scheme of things? I'd argue not, but I'm sure some people would argue yes.
As I've said a few times, my annoyance isn't so much with the point being made, its the militant way its being made. Coming into threads using derogatory terms and poking fun at people is not a constructive way of making a point.
Fwiw, I have no issue with you or the points you are making, I'm just tired of every little thing being over-analysed by a select "elite" group of negative users. Be it SGT, bundle threads, level based giveaways or this. There's always an issue, there's always horrible remarks made and nothing ever changes. If people really truly don't like it for the reasons they are stating, then by all means complain with votes, vote up lesser known users, don't take part in the event, host your own rival events at the same time with differing views.
The main thing is though, respect the other persons views and event whilst doing so. Don't agree with SGT, but respect those that do. Don't like level based giveaways, but respect those that do. There's an awful lot of people who have a lot of negative things to say without contributing anything positive. That's what prompted my entire thread. I'm fighting to change these perspectives and try and turn these negative views into positive ones.
By all means disagree with someone, but do it in a polite and constructive manner.
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I'm just tired of every little thing being over-analysed by a select "elite" group of negative users. Be it SGT, bundle threads, level based giveaways or this. There's always an issue, there's always horrible remarks made and nothing ever changes.There's an awful lot of people who have a lot of negative things to say without contributing anything positive. That's what prompted my entire thread. I'm fighting to change these perspectives and try and turn these negative views into positive ones.
I've seen this too and I'm really not alone as I have spoken about this with several users and vice versa. The SGTools thing, that never was a thing, is now clearly decided by cg and the very negative users that thrive on drama now search for other things to troll and to dramatize. Also what's noticeable is that most of those "elite negative users" hardly make any SG discussions threads of their own as they most probably prefer to troll and artificially inject their drama in other users their threads. It's so very obvious that a blind person would even see this.
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But you are also missing something, you are naming 'bad', 'average' and 'famous', were are the 'good' ones?
Because famous not equal good, especially here. There are many famous 'bad' guys...And some of the 'famous' are good ones, for a reason. And that reason (usually different for different users) also makes them 'famous'. Recognition for being somehow pro community is bad? I do not think so. And there were events for unknown/new/rising or smt heroes of SG, so for new ones only as well.
Does negativity brought any good? Criticism, yeah, if constructive and especially if served with solution.
There is no obligation to read every single thread here. Don't like it? Skip it.
Many people here just like to lecture others (and I do not mean you here).
There are lot of shitposts here as well (from me as well) but I do not mind that, usually I can recognize them and skip if I'm not in the mood. People just need to relax and distance themselves, it's just internet lmao
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I started looking at threads from the past that were the same and I began a list of all the people. After taking note of 100+ nominations (and honorable mentions) I got bored. It's easy to see that even though there is a large variety of people being nominated. (Think about it everyone nominates someone,... and it has to be a different person so you are going to get a lot of different people in the end) You can see by the sheer amount of re-nominations that it is mostly the same people being listed over and over again. If people want to have others tell them who they think is worthy of their giveaway, then by all means make a nomination thread. It serves its purpose. It isn't entirely unfair to call them popularity contests, though considering that's exactly what they are. If you aren't popular you aren't going to get nominated because less people know about you. That's just logic. Regardless of what you are intending with the competition/event or whatever you want to call it, that is exactly what you are creating. It may be uncomfortable for some people, I can surely understand why it would be. On the other hand I could see how being nominated would be awkward as well. Every time I've seen one of these threads created I've always seen at least one or two people mention that they don't like it. You'll always have people that don't like events, so be it. As for you wanting to try to claim that people aren't voting up the same people... The thread I stopped counting in I had gotten to roughly 70 unique nominees and at least 10 of them had 3 re-nominations. Considering they are only supposed to be nominated once, most people would check to see if their candidate was nominated first before replying. That just goes to show how often certain people are nominated in these threads.
I had a point... and I was going to make this much easier to read, but I'm tired and can't be bothered. Fuck it. This entire thing is as ridiculous as charts and sgtools.
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Hell, I'd say I don't favor them, at least any that are based in quantity of vote. That doesn't mean I'm going to get pissy about something I can even more easily (and more appropriately) ignore. Of course, my real issue is that the voting premise is typically exceptionally vague, and so it ends up becoming a popularity contest by default, because everyone picks the most notable people they can think of at that moment. More importantly, it means that if you've not got anyone specific in mind at that moment, it becomes a roulette game of picking among a lot of valid candidates. That's just far too awkward a design for me to wrap my head around, so I typically skip out on threads like that altogether [which I suppose means I may miss out on any nominations I might receive, especially since I never check my Steam invites unless someone tells me to. Oh well. :P]
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Hoping I'm not one coming across as pissy :P I don't care one way or another. Just don't understand all the drama not that i don't enjoy it...
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Whaaaaa? Why would you even think I'd direct that at you. No, I meant, I don't get what the drama is about, that would make people (act pissy) on the topic. For the most part, it seems to be based in the usual entitled whining that drives most of the negative topics on the site. :P
Not that I'm saying we can't discuss it, or that there's not merit in doing so. Just that the foundations that brought forth this discussion seem based less in concerns over equality, balance, or reach, and more about people being miffed over being excluded.
(Basically just agreeing with the OP's comments on the matter, as it were.)
In essence, I was agreeing with your comments toward such events being awkward, while saying that that still didn't excuse some of the reactions given on the topic.
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Interesting additional research, again i'd argue 70% unique nominees is a good thing and totally counters the "the same people" claim, the majority where unique users. Can you be surprised that 30% popular people may get nominated? As I've stated above, I don't think so, the 30% probably deserves their nominations due to overwhelming good community deeds.
Its been passed off as some kind of friend circle voting each other up, when that's not the case, that's what I take exception to.
I still don't see it as a popularity contest though, but we're allowed to have differing opinions! Thanks for your input!
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I'd argue that it is a popularity contest still. It's as simple as people only get voted for for being known on SG. I could be wrong on this, but they often won't be picked during the nomination by the thread creators if the thread creators don't know who the nominees are/even the person posting the nominees.
The 'popularity events' aren't necessary a bad thing though. It should maybe encourage people to post more, be friendly, post gives, make events, and etc.
SG Hunger Games events were the same case. I woulda love to have done lesser known people, but they often would never get voted for.
It's also made it hard to do future events as well. Simply because I'm running low on users I think. :/ Also been lurking mostly the last couple months.
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But thats the point my friend, you wouldn't know but I watched the Hunger Games event and loved it. I was a lurker, I wasn't up for commenting, but that event whilst being a "popularity" contest was the most open to all event going! Everyone could watch and enjoy it! Everyone could comment. People could take sides. It was honestly brilliant and any future event should keep that in mind, its not always about the people involved, its about the spectacle.
Think about sports, some lucky few play, a lot of people still enjoy watching. Film, TV, plays...most art is about the audience...
I see big community events as the same, like yours was. On a personal level I'd like to thank you for giving me a sense of community during a time I wasn't willing to participate.
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Hmmmmmm ..... two of your problems for the Hunger Games could be solved depending on how much additional effort you want to spend on such an event. Instead of letting people chose who plays in the next Hunger Games you could stick closer to the original:
- You create a poll/survey (on a third party site) where people give their SG username and which district they want to belong to (either the original ones or custom ones like FPS, RPG, Strategy, Platformer, .....). From this pool you then choose two of each district by lottery. People also have the possibility to step up but then they should carry a risk if they die (like making a 30 P non-bundled giveaway after their death).
- This way you would have community involvement because people are caring for their district (instead of caring for a person they know or like as it was before)
- As far as I can tell the software you use to simulate the Hunger Games is totally random so this part can probably be omitted unread. Before the games began you can give people the chance to sponsor their district/favourite by making giveaways for the event. In exchange the sponsored tributes gain some benefit (I would say like a stat point but there are no stats to begin with).
This way you could keep community involvement and have a large pool of tributes and at the same time give unknown users a higher chance. All of course purely speculative. It is your event.
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It is popularity contest most of the time, but it's not because it's community's fault, but how humans work in general.
Everybody on SG has fixed list of people, usually from 2 to 10 positions that he recognizes immediately. The actual choice of people is various, but most of the time those are people that you see often on forums, and in addition to that people give extra points for community events they like. Those are rare, though.
It's not really a bad thing, you can't blame people for lack of knowledge about major part of SG community. Hell, look at me - these days I'm not that active in discussions, but people still recognize me, mostly from ASF. Is it a bad thing? Definitely no, it's good to be appreciated, and I'd probably drop my interest in it pretty fast if people weren't interested or grateful. Exactly the same thing is happening with events and basically every single aspect of building a community - appreciation is a really good thing, but more about that can be found here.
It depends on the event whether it's "popularity contest" or something else. For example, your thread is indeed popularity contest, but revilheart's one not at all - neither of those are bad! I mean - look at me, if there was a category for most generous person, most public giveaways done, or likewise - I'd seriously doubt in our community if people voted for somebody like me, because I know pretty well that my bundle trash should never be even considered for nomination, and there are like shitload of people better than me in that category, so that has a point.
That's also why I very often promote less-known candidates for my Touhou Giveaways group, because I'm forming a nice community of friendly people, and not another circlejerk made from SG elite.
However, different events have different priorities. Making a closed event for 15 totally unknown people, made by another unknown guy will definitely have less interest than "SG elite" - people want konrads6 in SG hunger games, not some random stranger. The event is specifically meant to bring fun, not a "let's play together!".
I say, choices matter, but it depends on the event. Focus on making it successful, and choose people you consider best for given task, regardless how people look at it. When I'm making an event, I always ask my friendly 2hus for help, because I know pretty damn well that I can trust and count on those people, instead of having a good idea done that became totally diminished by awful performance. If there is a chance that particular person can ruin your event, either because you don't know that person, or you have a feeling that it might not end well, reconsider your choice. I'd definitely stick with my intuition and prefer to choose well-known people that you can trust to some degree, instead of total randoms that can ruin entire fun. However, that is only my opinion, everybody is entitled to his own.
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I remember when I managed that one event by 50% shouting at people to do stuff and 50% asking nice for last minute gibs
good times
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Hit the nail on the head Archi...
People are sort of missing the point that these events are for fun, not for rewarding an elite secret circle of friends. I mean take my event, if you got in or say Zelgh, you could win Bad Rats...do either of you need or want Bad Rats? No. Would it be interesting to watch that happen? In my eyes yes.
Sense prevails hopefully and eventually the negativity will subside, but its a constant flow towards anyone who tries to do anything nice.
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But... but what if we love Bad Rats? T_T
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i stiill think its a loop
deltas event is dreadfully boring to me since its no fun for an outsider like myself
the awards could be slightly more entertaining if i choose to follow it but
only your event Ally is the one i want to see because i remember watching that gameshow and loved the spoof of it that was made on 30rock with the deal or no deal Gold edition! hah that was golden comedy right there (puns!)
so im curious to see how ur version plays out if at all
its still gonna be popular/big steamgift household names that will be chosen but thats the nature of these things
although i never liked celebrity episodes on game shows, they are not as fun as the other folks to watch
unless were talking celebrity squares or the match game. that is an exception! that killed me so often growing up
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Well as dull as other events may be, they are there to give back to the community! Go forth and vote for an unsung hero! :3
I'd hope that my event will be enjoyable for everyone, I see it as a community event EVERYONE can take part in by commenting on taking the deal or not. In my previous events I've asked for feedback regarding events, in the case of revils there was a thread some months ago about the event which got favoured replies.
I dunno, I feel people go out of their way to say negative things about events instead of ignoring ones they don't like.
Fwiw, thanks for your honesty and input and celeb squares was amazing.
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Try not to let it get to you OP. As stupid as I feel saying it..."haters gonna hate." You owe nothing to anyone who is upset. Everything is free.
I don't think people should make as much of a big deal as they apparently are. This is all about free giveaways. No biggie if you cannot enter some. Be more chatty, more friendly, have a better ratio, do what you can to maybe get in. I definitely don't get into any of these but I am not complaining one bit as no one is obligated to give me entry to these nomination events. I am not owed anything, and I do not think I have some "right" to enter. No one on here is owed anything either. There are plenty of other thing I and the others can do. People just need to chill.
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Thanks, I believe more can be achieved from discussion rather than slinging stones.
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Currently there are 3 "nomination" events ongoing.
Harsh. :'P
Though if you're excluding it out of the difference in sentiment, I'll agree that the nomination bit is just an afterthought. ^.^
It's also not based in voting quantity, either, so there's that actual element of issue gone.
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Oh lord! Sorry about that, I hadn't seen your thread and was simply going off what others had said! I'll mention it, but adding it to the thread will require getting new data which is difficult.
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I'll mention it, but adding it to the thread will require getting new data which is difficult.
Nono, I was just teasing. :P
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I started this thread after reading a few comments saying circlejerk mentioning Delta, Revil
And My threads. Think yourself lucky that you've avoided the backlash! :3
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Currently out of the 269 nominations including multiple nominations on the same thread for the same person 46 users have been nominated on both threads.
Easy solution: Make a nomination event that excludes those 46 users. People have to nominate anyone they see fit who is not on this list.
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Difficult to achieve as 4 events are ongoing simultaneously, one is anonymous and by the nature of the event requires some people to be re-nominated. Also who gets priority on the 46? How do we co-ordinate our events?
Its difficult as it is to co-ordinate events, a lot of effort goes into things, so for people to come in and start bashing them without a second thought it really does hurt. Adding additional work when you don't even want to continue is tough.
Good solution in theory, difficult to do over multiple events with different users! Thanks for the input!
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Not everything has to be perfect. I think starting with those 46 would be a good start and can be a considered as "best effort" to give an opportunity to people beyond the most popular.
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I was thinking of doing something like this after seeing this thread. I wasn't sure how to do it though. lol.
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All you need to do is convince Ally to share his list :-)
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I'd have to re-count it but I'd be totally fine with sharing the list.
The other problem I have with this method is the exclusion of people for...being nice? Are we really going to start punishing people who have contributed significantly to the community?
I only need 15 of the 46, do the other 31 not get a chance at someone elses event? I may have misunderstood.
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I don't see much of an issue with this. The goal of such an event would be to get new nominations. If it requires people to just get an honorable mention (by being on the list), it's not the end of the world.
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But that's not really the goal, that's the complaint, I'm looking to reward significant contributors to the community as well as host an event everyone can take part in. Revil is looking to host an awards night which by the nature, needs to have the familiar faces nominated, Delta is having a birthday party so of course he is going to invite friends.
I don't think we SHOULD be as wide spread as you are saying, the people nominated deserve to be nominated repeatedly, however that is personal opinion. If people really feel excluded, then try and become included, post more, host more things, share positivity. I really don't want to reward or pander to the people who are consistently negative about everything, be it SGTools, Whitelist/Blacklist, Events, Bundle Threads....you name it.
However, that being said, IF the community at large wanted to have an event which was held exactly as you mentioned, it would work I agree. I think it is a more personal thing to do, for example, I would have no issue having this list personally to ensure different people got nominated. I think I may actually do that during the Deal or No Deal event, start a list so future events they will be "excluded" for a short amount of time, say 2-3 events(as i've stated previously, I don't want to "punish" good members of the community).
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The title was promising, but having level 2-5 as the benchmark for less popularity was not sufficient, because some of the names are indeed popular and have been mentioned in other nomination threads.
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true, but what is enough? :) I knew like 1/5 of the people mentioned there,
still it was some time ago, always space for a new, improved one :D [especially it is trendy now lol]
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I think that finding names that repeat in multiple nomination threads and listing them as "widely appreciated, but not applicable nominees for this thread" is a simple and more effective approach. I just don't have the time now to repeat Wallister's exercise to find those 46 names.
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you can ask him, I bet hiw ill provide :D as said, alwyas place to improved events, if no one tries, no chance for getting better :D
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I don't want to make this to create some kind of drama
Yesterday, there was a drama about these topics, you figured in the drama too and today you posted this FW topic and wrote that you don't want to make a drama. I don't understand it at all. I don't think it will help anything, you just add oil to the fire. These flame war topics are not good.
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As I've said above, due to the nature of the internet and having opposing viewpoints, its VERY difficult to have these kinds of debates without seeming angry or argumentative. I'd rather open debate than start a slanging match.
From your linked comment.
I'm trying to change what is in my eyes a flawed viewpoint. If you put time and effort into creating something only to be accused of circle jerking, you may wish to counterclaim that yourself.
There's a difference between discussion and argument. This isn't some kind of flame war? I don't know where you are coming from with that.
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Thank you, not taken the key but thanks for your contribution.
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Don't wanna sound disrespectful in any way, but to get on point quickly: Who the fuck cares, really?
Any sort of event like this has on the one side a total circlejerk of people promoting themselves and within their group (pathetic ego), and on the other side people hating for being/feeling excluded or simple contempt towards the persons involved. I know, that's highly exaggerated and there's always the middle ground, but your honorable motives aside, I doubt you can change these perspectives and therefore there is no need for you to justify yourself imo. All these complaints about exclusion or whatever, let it be levels/such events/clickteam/yadda yadda, aren't mostly born out of real concern about equality within the SG community, but simply envy and malevolence or vice versa the satisfaction of superiority issues. Group dynamics and human self perception ftw. You don't have any obligations, nor can you please everyone because of lack of omnipotence :P.
There's a way to talk things to death and resurrecting them back to life to haunt mankind forever and one could make a big discussion out of it regarding the common lack of confidence/aims people suffer from in this world or the flaws our socio-political systems possess ;x, but to make things short once again: I personally don't care about such events or condemn them, it's just another addition to the diversity SG holds. Don't get me wrong please: I tried to exaggerate matters deliberately to evoke emotions and expose the flaws/pointlessness of such discussions - wasn't meant in an insulting way or to attack anyone in particular and as I stated - you just won't please everyone, unfortunately and thank god or whomever ;>.
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Very measured and interesting response.
I agree with you tbh, however it is hard to not care when this constantly happens. I also agree that on the main most the complaints are not about real concern, more about the other things you mentioned. Which is why I want to try and open a discussion about things rather than throw stones, some people don't seem to want to discuss though like rational human beings. I dunno, its just hard to keep doing nice things when you are met with constant streams of negativity. Even though you know personally you should ignore it and move on, its difficult.
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I know what you mean and it happens to me too (no need to go all nihilistic ;D) but if I may give you adivce: There's nothing wrong with getting upset about things, but don't get yourself too much up in arms and thereby run the risk of loosing focus on the things that really matter in life/for you :). Don't zero in on that one guy crying from the top of his lungs what a horrible person you are but listen to the ones appreciating you and what you do. Rational and sound critic aside, most discussions tend to get all personal and insulting once the participants run out of arguments - if they ever try to put some up in the first place.
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Pretty difficult to tbh, theres a crux of people who like to make themselves feel bigger and better than others by bashing on things. Then they go around high fiving each other and slapping each others back because they've been the funniest guise eva!
I used to ignore people, but yeah, its getting slightly more personal.
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Tell me about it and i know, easier said than done. Some people feel inclined to hate on others out of envy of the perceived happiness the latter supposedly have, just because it reminds them so much of their own inadequacies/shortcomings and their felt inability to change this. I know, sounds mighty presumptuous ;D, but when you can't pull yourself up, simply put them down - it's not like they don't deserve it, they played the game first ;>. You don't have to be tolerant and understanding towards intolerance. I dunno, just wanted to cheer you up somehow because you sound mighty battered ;X...
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I agree with Archi's first paragraph. In every case where there's no random selection, and number of votes count, it will turn into a celebrity contest. Not because bad organization or the participans, but because people would love to see the well-known to produce something, to fight, or just to stand in line to worship them (no offense meant - just look at the followers of various celebrities on the internet, same is happening here in smaller scale). And the reason why this (or that) kind of events bother me is that it just strengthens the effect - like how pop (popular) songs are popular because they are made in a way to be popular, and they are popular because they define the whole genre. And even more it annoys me because I can't really do against it unless - as you said Ally - make my own events, and disable the popularity-snowball effect there. The fact that I try to nominate new people each and every time, picking friendly people from my recent memory instead of just the first three that pops to my mind doesn't help, and doesn't change anything in the big picture.
And on a more personal = salty note: I can't buy proper, bigger games as rewards, so kinda leftovers, in better cases HB monthly leftovers is what I try to give away in puzzles. Also, I prefer more outside of the box puzzles, not just a jigidi, or a simple "copypaste into xslate" . I have a puzzle still running for like 10 minutes when I write this. every other giveaway in the same topic got 200+ entries, three people asked about the puzzle, that was all. Added two hints during the week the thing was running, not a single response, not a single try or anything since it, and it's still at 0 entries (at least I'll can reuse the game, lol...). and this seriously makes me sad. I like puzzles that rewards players with "a-haaa" moments, not just busywork. That makes them think a little, but apparently there is close to no demand for that.
I know that communities are not homogenous, and not everything is wanted, or popular. Probably because of this while in my head I know there is no problem with nomination events you mentioned (and I especially like your achievement events, regardless of I have any and/or can access the GA) but in the same time it feels terrible that the community's majority is swarming around people who just smile nice, throw a few gifts away, and got praised for it. While others do the same in a different fashion, but because of the lack of visibility™ it just gets ignored. Anyone can call this whatever way they want - envy, being butthurt, salty, etc, I don't mind - but while I actively try to feel happy for those people, it's just lurks in the back of my head that I spent multiple hours, if not days figuring out a puzzle just to get ignored because the community wants the solutions presented. I know, the community is like that, that's all. I don't know if I changed, or the community, but I feel less and less like I belong here, and comparing this to the joy I had here a year or two ago is making me feel extremely bad
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I understand your point of view and thanks for delivering it in a measured way.
Look, my issue isn't with people being annoyed at "popular" users getting praise for being big gifters etc. It's the method and this constant uphill struggle people are having at the moment to do anything. Create a userscript to find rulebreakers? Get shit for it. Create a whitelist event? Get shit for it. Create a GA for a thing which will probably get retroactively get bundled/free? Get shit for it. Create an event? Get shit for it.
It's relentless and its usually by the same people, just enough is enough with the negativity. People are so quick to jump on the whole "this is a popularity contest" bandwagon that they miss the point of the entire thing. Fun and community.
I understand your pain, I made an event where all people had to do was bump the thread with a musical choice, it got like next to no entries. I've made hidden puzzle giveaways that get 1-2 entries. I even got to the point where I had to literally say "hey guys, these achievement event giveaways are hiding the following stuff" because people just weren't entering.
However, how can comments like "this is a circle jerk" be perceived as anything other than a slight on the puzzle/event creator. Think about all that time you spent on making a puzzle, all the money you spent on stuff, now have a large portion of the community turn around to you and say "this is a popularity contest/circle jerk". Just look at Pilda's comment above? Look at BrianFarnets reply? How are these contributing? I haven't attacked anyone, in fact I've gone out of my way to try and make clear I'm simply putting forward an opposing viewpoint. These responses weren't given to Ludum who posted a thread before this one.
Some certain members not naming names, seem to think there's some kind of SG Illuminati of "popular" people, yet they are being the leader of the so called "unpopular" group. Yet the bandwagon of hate is always the "popular" option. I find it ironic that the leaders of the "anti-establishment" are actually becoming, if not are, the leaders of it.
At the end of the day, its hard to do nice things when constantly being met with opposition. I've gained blacklists through doing events, easy to ignore. The odd nutcase is also easy to ignore. However, prominent users who should really know better going after almost everything that happens is something that upsets me and doesn't make me want to continue.
fwiw adam, I like you, you are one of the good guys, we don't have to agree on everything to remain friends/acquaintances/people who don't hate each other. It's the small minority who seem to think there is a black and white dividing line drawn between things they believe and everything they don't believe in. If you are on the opposing side, you won't engage in discussion, you will dislike them. THOSE are the people that are ruining the community, as has been said before, if you have nothing nice to say or you have nothing nice to add, why get involved? Is it not easier to ignore it? It takes more effort to post things like "circle jerk" etc.
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I understand your pain, I made an event where all people had to do was bump the thread with a musical choice, it got like next to no entries. I've made hidden puzzle giveaways that get 1-2 entries. I even got to the point where I had to literally say "hey guys, these achievement event giveaways are hiding the following stuff" because people just weren't entering.
Because people don't have time for that. Making all these fun and games is a nice idea, but people visit a forum to talk about stuff, not to do mental exercises. Especially if they have an average day job.
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Agreed! In fact that is literally my entire point.
If you don't want to take part, don't take part. If you see a puzzle you may ignore it out of habit of not having enough time etc. You wouldn't go on the puzzle thread and then say "I hate puzzle threads, puzzle creators are popularity chasers" etc etc etc.
I'm saying, why can't people who don't like nomination events do the exact same thing instead of actively going on the threads posting aggressively intended replies?
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Oh, the complaining aspect? It's because it is this forum. I like spending time here, but I am a painfully realist and pragmatic person: this forum is incredibly elitist (this was my first impression too back when I started reading it) and loves artificially created and inflated drama more than 4chan. People complain about anything.
You are right though. I don't care about the puzzles at all except for the occasional Jigidi, so I just don't look at that part of the forum. Don't care about these nomination threads either, so I don't comment in them.
What I agree with Lugum is that these threads won't make a really good impression in general (and they are popularity contests… but then again, it is coded in the very nature of any larger group). What I agree with you is that it is probably worse complaining about them then just let them be. It's not like high school, where these things actually make any difference in any sense. The average age of the forum is way past the point where "coolness" was the most important aspect of an individual.
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Agreed, which is what I'm trying to get across to people.
I'm indeed much to old for "coolness", I believe our average age here should mean that we should be able to discuss things like this out in the open without resorting to snide side comments or high fiving each other every time they post a defamatory remark to one another.
Trying to open up a dialogue instead of posting erroneous facts, but a lot of people aren't interesting in engaging in the dialogue, they would much rather hate on people and the things that are happening.
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I get the notion, but there is an error in your approach though. I see the same fundamental dialectic error in politics mostly, where you try to counter something you think is wrong by starting your own circle. In politics, this is used solely to boost one's own standings in their own crowd, and it is not meant to actually try to persuade the others that their views can be wrong. Your heart may have been in the right place, but now it looks like this: there are those who agree with Lugum and think the nomination threads are popularity contests and are a bad thing; and those who agree with you and say they are harmless. Instead of the two crowd trying to dispute it on a common forumplace, now there are two obvious gathering spots where members of either crowd can say the other is patting each other on the back for the good job.
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I tried to post in his thread as well but yeah, I felt the need to post my own thread, which I'd argue I have as much right to do as he did and vice versa. Common ground can not be shared in each others threads, as obviously detractors to one side will naturally gather on their "home" territory. It is almost a pointless debate trying to open discussion on the matter as you are instantly on an uneven footing.
I have said on a few occasions that I would rather talk to people on steam rather than on the forums when things have gotten what I believe to be a little too heated, but hey ho.
It's also the aggressive stance that is taken on the matter which made me feel the need to post my own thread, a lot of people seem to be under the impression that disagreeing with people gives them the right to use aggressive or poor language. For example, calling things a circle jerk can be perceived as nothing other than an attack when the alternative language to use is much more civil and would be easier to debate. It starts the entire discussion off on the wrong foot when people say things like...
Wallister's opinion is so special it deserves its own thread
I find it incredibly difficult to battle against things like this whilst remaining calm and discussing the matters at hand..
What I will say is I've constantly tried to be polite and honest about my opinions on the matter, I haven't devolved this into any form of argument. I still don't see it as a "flame war" or some kind of "drama", I think discussion and debate is all too easily passed off as "drama" nowadays. I have however received what I personally perceive as negative or "baity" comments, which is all too difficult to ignore. I'd once again argue that if you are looking for a place where drama lives, look towards them rather than myself.
I love this community, I'd much much MUCH rather we talked out our differences rather than the constant bickering and poking holes in everyones beliefs or ideas. Nothing seems possible on here any more without someone getting angry about it.
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Maybe because the existence of such threads and events already is perceived as the foundation for a dichotomy of the community?
And you can't argue with perception. It's just what people feel. They could argue the same way why you can't just ignore that they mind nomination events. ;)
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I'm not trying to argue with perception, I'm trying to say "hey, look, here's some actual facts to challenge your assumptions" and people rather than saying "oh yeah" are going "NO IM RIGHT!".
I dunno, I'm getting really tired of fighting these battles constantly.
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Well I can only tell you about my own feelings. I participated in 2 of those threads, but only because I wanted to see names mentioned that I wouldn't expect to see there otherwise. So it felt more like an obligation to make that event a bit more just and less like "fun".
I wouldn't criticize anyone for doing such events, though I always consider that approach to be ... lazy? Like " Create your own whitelist event, just like everyone else too!" lazy. :)
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Haha! I can tell you now, any event is anything BUT lazy, they take a lot of co-ordination and dedication to ensure everyone is happy and things run smoothly. Even simply "I'll whitelist you if you ask" can be a ballache just keeping up with the volume of replies. :)
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It amazes me that out of 300 unique votes only 46 were the same. Personally if a person gets mentioned more than once they have probably touched more than one heart. More than one good deed has been made. Someone mentioned how "bad" people get mentioned and they've only done one thing and aren't active yet still get chosen.
I'm going to use your thread as an example since that's the thread people seem to have the most issues in:
Rachel is a well known user. Very popular. She spoke to many people and of course did the bundle threads. How many times was she mentioned in your thread? Well I typed in "Rachel" and 0 results came up.
Archi is very well known. Owner of 2hu, creator of ArchiBot and personally I use ASF which is also used by many. How many times did he get mentioned may you ask? Typed in "Archi"... he nominated himself and got 3 "+1s" and 1 unique nomination with 0 "+1s" so 4 in total.
Now this brings me on to my point. I named 2 very big and popular users. Combined have a total of 4 votes. Yes I could research more but well I'm on mobile so give me a break and I just woke up.
In a separate thread this comment was made about a user who isn't "popular" he got 1 mention and a total of 5 people including myself +1d the user/wanted him to be mentioned. That is a total of 6.
So, if you look at that mini stat analysis you can see that if people take the time to actually nominate the people that are "more deserving" or in better words"equally deserving" of a nomination than complain? Not saying that that person complained btw. What I'm saying is if people took the time to nominate people like this unknown user and explained why then people would +1 them.
Personally, if a person gets mentioned more than once yet they maybe haven't done anything in the community, what's the problem? People want them for a reason. If they have a "fan club" then a lot of people appreciate them as a person. Maybe they didn't gift games with low income, maybe they just gift games like anyone else on the site and maybe they are just average compared to every other user. Yet there must be a reason they got chosen and +1d... maybe people appreciate the human being. Maybe that person plays games with a lot of people, maybe they replied to all the comments in their giveaways or little threads they make and maybe that made people feel wanted and maybe they are just a nice person. Maybe Archi and Rachel didn't get chosen for what they have created or give. But what if they were chosen for being human - for experienced shared, games played together or a conversation held. Does that mean because they have touched many hearts they can't have fun?
Should we punish people who are strong names in the community? Sure people may get put off competing with the "popular" people but why not use your voice? Be that person that tells the story of a lesser known user and get that person know. Don't complain because you don't have a voice. You are here on a place with people, they have feelings and are social creatures. So be human. Talk. That's why people are praised. Because they talk. Aside from gifting and winning, isn't this the whole point in the discussion board? Are you too shy? Yeah so am I, this is the perfect place to come out your shell. Get involved.
People said they don't want to come on here for mental excersizes and events that take time. Don't be apart of it then. Go play games or talk else where. Because I know for a fact that people took the time to comment on my Sadistic Puzzle and on average people were taking 6/7 hours to do the puzzle. It was their choice. So don't be negative about an event because there are people who want to be apart of it.
I had a point to this comment but now I'm waffling...
People need to appreciate people. That's the whole point in this discussion board. Why not participate with lesser known people or just leave people to enjoy a blood great event. I appreciate every event maker big or small. You take the timeout to make these for the community. I just wish people would accept and appreciate the time, effort and money put into events instead of critiquing every aspect of it because their not involved and neither is their best friend Bob.
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I'm so tired, this is such a better way of articulating things and I need to link it on the main OP.
Thanks <3
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It's okay baby! Just leave people to worry about their problems. It's clearly a bigger issue amongst users, you are doing great. I don't think a lot of people care about other people's feelings but their own. Stay selfless and keep your chin up. Without events what is this website? Just random strangers giving games. You give personality like many others!
So thank you <3
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zelg's unpopular opinion - most of the people crying how are all nominations events just unfair popularity contests, how they hurt community and so on and on are in realitty not worried a little bit about impact on community but rather jelly that they don't get to participate. There are few reasons I believe it to be like this, but most important I believe is argumentation I saw in Lugum's thread yesterday. Arguments like "this person only made a user script 2 years ago", "this person just makes puzzles", "this person just talkes a lot on forums but doesn't have 1:1 ratio like I do!" and so on and on. First things first - while making GAs is crucial part of SG community, it's also the most common and widespread activity. It does require the least effort. You may not use userscript, you may not like puzzles - but many users in the community do like these thingies. Making a GA takes a few seconds, making a puzzle takes at least few minutes, usually many hours, making a complex userscript requires even more time, being active and helpful on community. In my eyes a person who dedicated hours upon hours to help community - making script that tens or hundreds od users will use, making puzzles that will entertain numerous users, making thousands of helpful comments, explaining stuff to newbies in forums etc etc - all these actions make this person worth more to the community than 10 or even 100 GAs difference between you and this person. Also - if someone has crazy ampounts of GAs made he's already rewarded in different way - he has higher level, has access to high level GAs already, yet posters in said topics won't complain about that. Why? because they are these people, they won't complain about something that profits themselves, they will complain about something that does not. Like I said - they're just jelly that they don't get to participate. You wanna be nominated in these events? It's not like you compared it to highschool popularity contests, unlike in highschool here it's not a case of things you have no power over - like how athletic you are or how good-looking you are - here it's just a case of how much you do for the community. You do a lot for community and people will notice it and remember it. And anyone can do stuff for community. but it requires a lot of time and effort put into it. But if you want you can do it. but obviously most of these people don't want to. It's nice to complain how it's all just popularity contest, how unfair it is because you cannot join, but when being told that if you wish and invest yourself into community you can - they don't have time for such stupid things. It's the same as with all the people complaining about groups (hey, it's unfair you get to win so many games in groups while I cannot - well you can join groups but you have to do something for this groups - but I want into these groups without doing anything!, complaining about CV levels (it's unfair, you are lvl 10 you can buy any game you want, you shouldn't enter any GAs and let lvl 0 win - well you can level up like I did - I don't want to, I don't want to invest money or time, I want to profit only hurr durr!) complaining about puzzles (I don't have time for solving your shitty puzzle, you should let me join GA right away) and so on. All these things are so unfair - unfair only because others who invested their time, money, skills got rewarded while this someone who is not willing to oinvest none of these would like to get the same reward.
End of zelg's unpopular opinion.
Now let the BlackLists flood! :D:
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I love you man, thanks for putting into words something which I cannot! <3
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replace "crying" with "upset" and +1 =)
same as archi's comment.. it is a popularity contest of a sort, but that's not a bad thing. that's where i actually do favor it. nothing wrong with the same ol' popular nominee's, mixed with fresh new nominee's at all. these things will make people want to become more of an active member of the community so they might be selected the next time around. that imo is a great thing.
i think execution in a more private manor would ease a lot of tension and most of that jealousy though that naturally does come along with these types of events.
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I actually like public part of it, because private/anonymous way of doing it like revilheart does it right now while at one hand means less jelous comments (at least in nomination phase, when nominees get announced same people will get jelous anyway) it also means less exposure for people who deserve it. One of the reasons I like nomination events is because I may see a new faces, this fresh blood you mentioned, which I may have missed - maybe I was less active when they came around, maybe we're online in totally different hours, mnaybe I missed their ultra useful thread/script/guide. Thanks to nomination events I may scroll through nomination and say "hey, I don't recognize this person, let's check who he/she is" then I may be like "oh god, this guy/gal is doing fantastic job! He surely deserves a spot on my whitelist!" or "let's invite him to my group/event/friendlist" etc. Public nomination means exposure to these which otherwise may have been less known, and mqay also mean that they get rewarded not only by event maker but also by other users, who get to know them thanks to these public nominations.
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like everything done on this website, that's the upside. there is the downside too. but i agree, that's the parts of it i do like too, for those same reasons u mentioned.
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lol it is not so unpopular :D +1
but you are wrong on one thing, most of those people (not all of them) invest a lot of time, toxin and raised blood pressure
into forming those theories..
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We'll see how unpopular it is after seeing how many BLs it will get me ;) I guess most of these jelly people, especially ones who'd go far enough to BL someone for an opinion, will not comment, to stay hidden ;) Another common theme - people feeling strong enough about their opinion to BL someone just for having other one, but when it comes to publicly stating this opinion or info they are blacklisting suddenly "no no, because it will make other people unfairly blacklist me!" ;p
I don't say they don't, but I said about investing themselves into helping community, and no matter how much time they invest into these toxic behaviour it won't help a little bit ;)
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I just randomly picked some "reasons" i seen through both current events, i fully agree certain puzzles take effort and time (and yeah Jigidi puzzles aren't so much) like Revil did many times, there are many others with lesser grounds "like i know that person in real life so i nominate him" or "that person gifted me a game so i will nominate him".
Scripts might take also alot of time and many that appreciate them (and yes i don't use scripts) and i am not talking about Archi that continues his work on ASF, but it's about something did once years ago. It's like an actor getting nominated for a movie he did 4 years ago.
Also it's not really about 1 thing, should be more about a total package, while 1 person with 500 sents and 0 wons, but being a jackass on the forum (there is noone that i know of, just an example) shouldn't be nominated or someone who did 1 nice thing but has a crap ratio.
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Since you brough this actor argument I've seen last night in your thread (but was scrolling on mobile phone in bed, insomniac here ;p, so was not really able to write a proper long and detailed answer) - you forget that in the media you bring yourself as an argument what you described happens as well all the time. how often will you see various contests or just lists like "10 Best Action Movies of All Time", "Best 50 jRPGs of all time!", "10 Most beautiful acresses of this century!", "25 Fantasy Books every fan must read!" and so on and on.
And again - you cannot decide what is and what isn't enough for someone to make a decision who is and who is not worthy of an appreciation. If let's say Archi today decided to stop doing anything on forums, left 2hu to someone else, left development of ASF and ArchiBot to 3rd party, stopped making GAs etc - in 1 year he'd still bbe valid entry in my eyes. Why? Because the amount his work helped community overall is massive, doesn't matter if he's continuing this work - he helped a community a lot, much more than someone did by making 100 oublic bundle GAs for example. But the fact of the matter is that people like to set these rules you mention so they would fit them, benefit them. Someone who never done something significantly helpful to the community will gladly agree that doing something helpful year ago is not enough! Look at whole package! Pay more attention to my ratio! At the same time someone else Who mainly does group GAs will say that we should look at ratio only, or #Sent only, someone else who only visits forums and makes no GAs will have totally different opinion - don't look at GAs at all! People are already rewarded for GAs by High Level Gas, this event should value number of forum comments only! And so on and on. I'm not directing it on you exactly - you actually are visible on forums and important part of the community, My comments (both original and this one) are targeted on many of other people who commented in your thread (or even better - all the people who massively voted "aniti-popularity comntest!" option in your poll without even leaving a single comment at all - in my eyes even further proving that only reason they are voting this option is because it's the only one profitable for them).
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That's why i quoted it, but i am not a gamemaker, nor an actor etc, so i have no need to feel an association with such lists, and those lists are just a favoritism lists by just some random person, your top 10 movies is different then mine.
I am a member of this forum, as many others and the discussion is about something happening on this forum, and yes it's the whole question on how if it's favortism here also or not.
What i barely seen in the discussion, is for someone saying i want to do this event but sorry some will be excluded this time or just the mention of how +1 will not count as a vote and give us a clearer picture how the end results will really be (along with how previous events have been in the past).
Don't think anyone from that same name list, would object to it, and yeah usually those people have a good ratio too.
Like i won't have anything at all against your ratio or many that have been nominated, i mean while i sent more gifts, your real cv is probably alot better, and you done stuff like the puzzle guide.
That was also just an example of someone i actually seen nominated with 600 wins and 100 gifts, that is just taking the piss of things no matter how nice that person might be (a person i never even heared of or seen on the forum (while i am here alot) to even judge how kind that person is).
That's the same name list part, but i barely seen any good counter arguements for people that get nominated just because they know someone in real life, or they received a gift from someone.
Leaving the whole voting aside, i think there have been many in my topic that made a comment on how they don't like nomination events and why, just as some didn't agree with it.
Maybe it doesn't come across like it but i really don't care about being nominated or not, but i opened a discussion that atleast shows there is some gap between people surrounding the issue, regardless of the poll.
Even if someone doesn't like nomination events at all, one can skip them, but the way it's done and handled is a majority of the problems surrounding it.
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yes, but more often than not these lists wil not be generated out of favourism of a single person like you imply, but due to research or actualy by voting by users themselves (like all IMDB lists for examples, and there are dozens of these)
Your next paragraph - you are clearly just nitpicking here. Suddenlty the issue changed from unfair favourism, making other members feel bad, worrying about community to the fact that "rules of picking are not clearly detailed in OP" - in your original topic it was not a problem, surely not main pone, now you suddenly focus on something else to pick on. And something stupid at top of that - how someone picks nominees in the end, whether he counts +1 or not - it's up to event creator. You don't have problem with someone making forum event/puzzle picking whatever rules he wants to include/exclude users who can join, but when it comes to nomination events which you clearly have problem with - suddenly same case of Contributor picking whatever rules he feels like becomes important. You also say you don't see these rules explained in these topics - maybe look through these topics again. In curent Delta topic he explained he will first add nominees that he already had WLed then will randomly select the rest from names nominated. In hideo's Hunger Games events hideo clearly stated that he will select users who were not in previous eventa snd highest amount of +1 as he wanted most popular users to drag most attention to event. Just to name 2 examples from top of my head without any research of this what you claim you don't see on forums.
Also - you base your whole argument on fact of seeing one anonymous user with very bad ratio nominated by another anonyomus user? C'mon, get real - the mere fact that events are nomination based means that any anon may try to skeak in his friend in exchange for other friend trying to sneak him in. Judging whole community on the fact that you got pissed off that some anon nominated someone "not worthy" and noone nominated you or someone you see worthy is just plain silly and kinda childish.
You want a good counterargument ofor people nominated simply because they are IRL friends or they made GA someone else won? There is an easy counterargument - like you have problems in the first place with in the end event creators picking final list - it's the counter to this, no sane event creator will invite such a person over other valuable nominee. And even if they do - because they do purely random event - then there's no case of your first problem - popularity contest. So either there will be no such very bad picks like you try to argument with, because picking will be moderated, or there will be random event, which means that it's no longer popularity contest like you claimed, because anyone no matter how popular/unpopular he is have same chance to get in if someone nominated them.
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How does that become nitpicking or change the issue? if some people from that list, were excluded for a one time, then the people who would be below that would actually have a chance, or even a third "tier", exactly eliminating potential favortism.
Like there is a majority that will know beforehand they won't ever be picked, because for example they aren't really active, we all accepted that, and it's not about that, it's about the people in between.
Yeah some hosts make the end result random, but some don't just as well, and you know that.
I skipped the whole Hideo's hunger games, it never been discussed, so that one is irrelevant.
I'd even tend to not even include Revil's because that one is slightly different, that is really about the people on the forum, the ones that should get recognized, but importantly there aren't strings attached, its just nominations for what people do and what they are and not about wanting someone else play a game, potentially win a Fallout 4 or Doom.
Not sure how you imply contributor picking, yeah i also don't like people who just set giveaways to level 5 or whatever and above or just make group giveaways, why i tend to do lower levels, higher levels, whitelists, puzzles, why? Because everyone will have a chance.
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It's changing the issue, because now you started talking about something you were never talking in the first place. I talk about what you were originally posting about, you change an issue to suddenly it being about not explaining picking details properly.
And again and again - someone is buying GAME / GAMES for HIS OWN EVENT. It is HIS CHOICE to set whatever rules he like for this event, no matter if you find it being favourism or not. Like I said before - you qave no problem yourself setting non-public or level restricted GAs. You are thus favouring users of certain level, or who opened certain thread or meet whatever other criteria. And it's fine, it's your money you paid for GAs with, you have every right to do whatever you want with them. but at the same time while it's ok when you do it GAs wise it's no longer ok when someone presents same form of favourism in his nomination event? If you do it in GAs it's healthy part of the community, if someone else does it in the event it's toxic and hurtful. Kinda double standards if you ask me.
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Pfff... really guys?
Hopping from one drama into another.
Reading these forums is becoming more of an annoyance than its fun.
Not directed at OP. Just my opinion on whats happening in the forums lately.
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We just laid it a bit to rest in my topic, but one thing that came to mind is a big thing what you are forgetting (and several others) is the +1 thing.
You might not count it as a vote perse, but many that did might see it as a vote or their nomination, thus your numbers are kinda mute in that perspective, and would have been completely different.
In short it's going to be hard to get an actual number to prove either side.
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As i said before, the stats aren't perfect they can be investigated by anyone who wants to investigate them but yeah. There are lots of factors that havent been take into account. Agreed with it being put to rest, further discussion probably won't get us anywhere.
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As you pointed out SadisticChicken's arguement, it be fair enough to post that factor in your op then also, not just the ones that fit you (like you only +1 everything in my topic that just agreed with you).
Old nomination events have never been taken into account either, and that might prove alot different results and probably yield into the feeling many have of the same names list. That should be taken into account.
In my own thread too, i still state for now there is absolutely no solid proof of either side.
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Again, I'd argue the onus is on you to prove me wrong. I have provided immediate proof available with statistics, no amount of "but I think this" is going to change cold hard stats. I haven't responded to your +1 comment because I don't quite understand what you mean by that? They are voted and people agree with their vote, it doesn't dilute the numbers at all? There's still only 46 people who have been nominated in multiple events out of 270. Even if one member gets 1,000 +1's, its still only one event that they have been nominated for.
Of course I +1'd everything that I agreed with...because I agreed with it....I also tried to engage you in open debate about my opinion. Again, I'm failing to see your point there.
As for previous nomination events, off the top of my head....
Rachel
DK
Llama
Yunie
Winthrop
Wallister
All these names got nominated in old threads but not this one, or vice versa. That's just off the top of my head, there's clearly going to be a lot more unless the sample 3 events I checked are complete anomalies and 30% is not your usual average repeat nominations.
My problem is, a lot of what you are saying, and others, is completely unfounded opinion. There is absolutely no facts to back it up, when presented with some facts, the facts aren't good enough for you for want of another word.
There is absolutely no way this is going to go anywhere, the more we talk, the more we are going to disagree and I don't know about you, but personally I've had enough of it. I can't change your opinion, so lets leave it be.
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Because of as how sadistichicken put it in my topic, Delta wouldn't count those +1's and throw every name just in 1 large bag.
There is a big difference in saying i nominate wallister, or +1 to every name i come across i like (and say that's a vote), not only should such events be limited to a number of voting one could give, but also a clear do +1's count or not and make your own seperate nomination.
+1's are so easy to do and it's never even clear if it's an actualy vote, if someone just agrees or whatever.
Because there are simply no facts for you to back things up either then just "counting" (whatever you counting with +1s and not) from 2 events, in alot of people's minds, most that have been here awhile, the same name list idea orginates from there, the past.
Go to 5 randomly (you choose) old similar events and throw those names in the bag, then you can throw it in my face and everyone else and show you actually got proof.
Well i think its better forum wise, if we both closed it. Points been made (or not) not ever from other people or you to stop making events like that, but atleast to show a view things you and those people that do, could do a view things differently in that it be more acceptable for others too.
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The only conclusion I can derive from this entire thing is that I will be making no events in the future.
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EDIT: SadisticChicken did her own investigation to lend further weight to the stats which can be found here.
I don't want to make this to create some kind of drama, I just want to hopefully show that these events are primarily for the community, not for people to pat each other on the back. If you want to do your own investigation feel free to do so, but as an event creator, I can't stress enough how upsetting things like "this is a popularity contest" is. It is completely not my intention to do this for "popularity" or to promote "popular" people. I've stated this before, I have depression, I don't like waving a flag about it, it harms me socially quite a lot. SG has been here for me in my darker days, events and just lurking on the forums brought me a little joy and I really truly do just want to give back to those that gave to me. In addition to this, I want to try and help those who have been in or are in a similar situation to me by promoting some form of community. Getting people to talk and give people a little boost by letting people nominate each other seemed like the easiest way to do so.
Let me be the first to say, this information is probably not 100% accurate, the threads are currently ongoing so people have probably posted whilst I was counting. Also, due to the nature of me being a human being, human error is definitely a factor in the counting. However I can confidently say at the time of posting I should be within 10 people, if you look at the data, you'll see +/- 10 people doesn't make a great difference to the overall conclusion.
Threads ongoing
Currently there are 3 "nomination" events ongoing.
Delta's birthday event - current nominations including multiple nominations for the same person 185
Wallisters Deal or No Deal event - current nominations including multiple nominations for the same person 84
Revilhearts SG Yearly Awards Night - current nominations including multiple nominations for the same person 0anonymous voting
Total number of users nominated on multiple events
Currently out of the 269 nominations including multiple nominations on the same thread for the same person 46 users have been nominated on both threads.
Conclusion
The majority of users nominated for the events are "unique", so the idea that "the same people get voted up" or "its a popularity contest" is at least in some ways incorrect.
Some names that have been voted for on both threads have contributed quite significantly to the forums, be it through being a Mod, creating a widely used userscript, being a frequent puzzle creator or being a frequent event creator.
Please do not take this as conclusive, do your own investigation if you feel like I'm talking bollocks, I do love everyone here, even those that I've potentially argued with in the past over things like this.
Peace out,
Ally
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