It seems like many here don't try to win games because they like playing games, they do it because they like having large Steam libraries... also €0.20 in cards multiplied by 300 starts meaning some real money, even though it maybe costed the giveaway creators €3 per game on average, so that's one way of turning €900 to €60 and inflating someone's library of unplayed games that will never get touched... For me, I would much rather pay the person winning a giveaway for the cards those €0.20, or even the double, and let someone who wanted to play the game win it instead.
I only join giveaways for games I want to play, and I make sure to play them. I finished around 2/3 of my won games so far, and always making good progress in a few more games. Aiming for 100% of course :)
When it comes to your game, maybe you could do a SGTools giveaway that required the entrants to have the game wishlisted before the date the giveaway was made? Probably still means a lot of people who would only farm it for cards (some people add all games with cards to their wishlist...), but maybe a few more would try it for real?
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I've given away 50 keys of my game several times and usually my game* gets drained of cards through idling bots, with only few people of those 50 trying to actually play it.
sorry. =(
most everyone will farm them just about instantly, but some may have intent to go back and actually play it eventually. and then there ofc are some who have no intent on playing it, and were merely after the cards and plus one to the library.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Maybe I should some sort of restrictions on my giveaways, so my keys wouldn't go to card farmers?
i can't really answer that first part, however there are groups such as playing appreciated that require their wins to be played or else they will be kicked from group.
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Sometimes I play then way too late (I still have 2, maybe even 3 year old unplayed ones) but I want to play as much of them as I can. I'm sorry that you had such an experience with your game, it really shows that you care about it. Try Playing Appreciated or some similar group for your giveaway if you want them really to be played, if you give enough copies that SG will consider it as a promoted dev giveaway all the bots and everyone and their dogs will flock on it :\
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Given the nature of the internet and the "free" nature of this site (no membership requirements, anyone can join at some level), there's going to be a percentage that simply try to get their hands on anything that isn't nailed down. You can't avoid it. All you can do is (as others have suggested ) is establish some prerequisites through SGTools.
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I don't idle any of my games, unless you count them running in the background when I talk to you guys. But if I don't like it it gets closed doesn't stay open long. I try to play everything I won at least a little, sadly a few haven't been able to really catch my attention though so . . . they only get up to around 15mins before I get frustrated with them.
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Well, the problem is not people who don't like my game. It's my fault for not making game better =P
My problem is people don't even try, so you're with the good guys =]
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I'll try to peak in and see what some of your games are. <3 I promise. If I like and play a game I tend to give it a good review. Sometimes I do bad reviews but not as often because I try to keep in mind if it was a poorly design game OR just my opinion. If it's just something I don't like but others may like I just don't review.
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That's sad to hear. I guess a future solution could be to not include trading cards with your game and then at least it removes the people who wants the game for the cards although the whole collector +1 library aspect remains... perhaps SteamGifts isn't great for promotional purposes.
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Nah, don't remove trading cards. Whenever cards get sold, a percentage (5% I believe) goes to the developer. People can get thousands of dollars when cards are sold, resold, etc.
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On a 3 cent card, 1 cent goes to the seller, 1 cent to Valve, 1 cent to developer, so 33.3% split. In fact 3-21 cents is the same, 1 cent for developer and Valve each, so for a huge majority of cards (over 86% of steam market transactions are for cards valued less than or equal to 21 cents) the devs are not getting very much (a penny). For larger transactions, Valve aims for 9% while the dev gets 4.5%, i.e. on an $8.10 sale, Valve gets 70 cents, dev gets 35 cents, and seller gets $7.05. HOWEVER every developer negotiates different rates, so a lot of MMOs and games that rely on microtransactions have contracts with much more favorable rates (instead of Valve getting 2:1, sometimes the ratios are as high as 1:3 in the devs' favor). Example: this means a 42 cent tranaction breaks into 1 cent for Valve, 3 cents for the devs, and 38 cents for the seller.
As for "thousands of dollars", you'd need 100,000s of transactions to pull that off. Super Meat Boy is a very popular indie platformer with well over 2.6 million owners, yet their devs earn fees off 377 normal cards, 9 card packs, 7 foil, and 165 emotes/backgrounds average transactions PER DAY. Since the average value of all of these transactions is very low (even the foil cards and packs are worth 24-27 cents) Team Meat makes about $5.65 from transactions, sometimes up to $7 on the weekends. One of the most popular indie games on Steam...makes less than $200/month from market - while I'm sure the duo behind Super Meat Boy Edmund McMillen and Tommy Refenes are thankful for the extra $200/month, you're talking about a drop in the bucket for them - not to mention any other developer or game that is less popular!
Go ahead and run your own numbers, I promise you the only ones laughing are Valve because even though it's only a few dollars/developer/day, there are almost 7000 (6842 as of right now) games that have trading cards and they make money off of all of them. Daily. #BIGbusiness #OneSliceVsWholeCake
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Developers get 10% of card sales, not 5%. Valve gets 5%. Therefore, if a card sells for 11 cents, the developer gets 2 cents.
That said, you may be laughing, but after the developer has already made the game anyway, why not give out extra copies to people that wouldn't buy the game anyway? If your game has 8 cards, each free game will drop 4 (assuming they play or idle enough to get them all) so each "free" copy will likely net you a few cents on the first sale of the cards anyway. That's better than nothing, especially since the game is already made.
Over time, some of the cards are sold and resold multiple times. The developer gets 10% each time, and it's in perpetuity, so it's an additional income stream (whether it's huge or not is irrelevant).
In the long run, giving away copies of the game to people that definitely won't buy it anyway is still a profitable enterprise, builds your player base up, spreads the word, and is free advertising for future sales of that title and others by your company.
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Just to note, even if I won a game that I really wanted to play, it would probably still be idled first, since the process is automatic (it does its work precisely when I don't have the time yet to play the game). Of course, I would eventually get round to playing the game, but there is a very real possibility that I have to finish quite a few other games first.
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Nope.
I'm one of those persons that just collect games for the sake of having a collection.
I guess you could always give away more copies until it reaches someone who actually plays it?
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I think if you made a post in the discussion board specifically asking individuals who were willing to play your game to volunteer. Then, make a whitelist-only GA for your game. Whitelist the volunteers. Check back on the discussion post from time to time for feedback and such. Don't allow people who have 10,000 games into your GA. I think you're right though: most people just want to accumulate thousands of games without ever playing 99% of them. I only enter GAs of games that I intend to play, but even so, it is often hard to find time.
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+1 for the whitelist / invite-only suggestion; it lets you filter entrants and also ensures people know you're hoping they would review the game, otherwise they might just keep it in their backlog.
Also, happy cake day Torgo :)
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It's sad, but it is not just this site, it's a large percent of Steam users. A lot of people call themselves gamers, but the main game they play is the the Steam social media game of collecting so they can impress their online "friends" with big numbers. They collect cards, badges, games, friends, and even achievements of games they don't care about just for the numbers.
I believe this has to do with human nature. Most humans are competitive and a large number are hoarders and like to collect. Steam has turned itself into a competitive social media game instead of just being a distribution platform. They created a huge market that would not be there if they just distributed games.
I personally game because I enjoy playing games and I only enter for games here that I want to play. I enjoy a broad spectrum of games and because of that, I have already collected more than I can probably play. I would love to play them all, but the list of games I am interested in continues to grow. Also, I like to complete games I start, unless they are really bad, but that is very rare. I play thoroughly and somewhat slow, exploring and enjoying everything the game has to offer. This usually causes me to take longer than the average person which doesn't help the issue with my long backlog of games.
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Yeah, I realized the word "majority" is wrong and edited it as you were typing this reply :)
Edit: Also, how many Steam accounts have been created just to install one game to get around a VAC ban? I'm sure all those one game accounts really drive the average down. And then there are all the accounts that people create because they had one game or wanted to play a free game and then never log back in after playing it. I wonder what the numbers would look like if they only counted accounts where the user logged in in the past year.
Edit 2: That is actually how I got this account. It was originally my brothers, but he likes console games and only created this account a long time ago when Half Life 2 was released. After playing that one game, he went back to consoles and never touched Steam again, so I took this account to play Counter Strike Source and it became my main account. I have another account that just has the original HL and CS on it, but I never use it anymore.
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I think I edited that into my reply as you were replying. I seem to have bad timing today :)
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there is group playing appreciated
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/T80Im/playing-appreciated-giveaways-with-the-intention-for-the-games-to-be-played-within-a-month
You can try make giveaway for those people
I won 9 games.
Played 4. (1 - 100% achievs. 1-can't kill last boss for now, 2 still playing)
Other 5 (1 waiting for dlc sale, 1-waiting for update, 2-didn't have time, because playing other games, 1 - stopped gamedev for now)
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I wasn't aware that there are so many people who don't play games =P
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After giveaway ends it's dead quiet, I get nothing out of it.
To be honest this is how it's like for most of us. It's more the act of giving but you should probably restrict your to groups specifically dedicated to people playing their wins. I see you've had some excellent suggestions already
DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT FOR THIS GAME
Sector Six - OST Free
Kudos
Edit: Looks pretty interesting and has RPG as a tag, putting this on my whishlist :)
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I plan to at least try each of the games in my library at some point. Usually time works against me and I don't have enough left for playing whenever I get near my gaming PC. But I like having as many games as possible in order to have a broader library to choose from. And the reason is simple. I don't believe in playing according to a schedule. I am against the idea of playing something within X timeframe because of some random rule either coming from outside or self imposed.
Games are meant to be enjoyed and if I start thinking about them as chores then the whole point of gaming and all the enjoyment disappear and I'd rather stop playing than transform the whole process into a chore or an obligation.
I always follow my mood whenever I play something and I play it because I want it and not because I have to. With that in mind, on many occasions I even played shovelware instead of AAA titles even though I had plenty to choose from. The most important aspect about it is that I did it because I wanted to give that specific game a try because that's how I felt at that moment. Many times I had more fun playing simple low level games than renowned AAA titles.
I understand your point and it's a valid concern. However, some of those that appeared to idle the game might come back later and give it a real try. If not, they do not deserve to be bothered with. The logical thing is to move on and focus on those that matter. Obviously, everyone is different and acts according to different beliefs and principles so it's quite far fetched to expect everyone to act according to a certain direction. But as long as some players come back to your game and play it and enjoy it (assuming it's an enjoyable game - I don't have it so I have no idea) then word will spread out and a natural player base will form beyond the regular idlers. In my opinion your job is done once the game is activated by the "players". Whatever happens next is beyond your control. The rest depends on the quality of the game and the quality of the people the game ends to, the latter being harder to quantify and control.
Keep up the good work and try to focus on more important things like for instance new ways to keep the players involved and interested without having to invest a lot of time into the game. Keep in mind that many players do not have a lot of time at hand and if their attention is not converted within a certain timeframe you will lose them (for example if they have to invest many hours of gameplay before being able to enjoy the story or even understand what the game is about - this is a generic assumption and it might not have anything to do with your game but I think it's a very important aspect in my opinion).
Anyway, that's my two cents on this subject.
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I can't just give hundreds of keys and hope that some of people will play the game some time - for most of the keys I gave it's never going to happen. I didn't spent almost 3 years of my life for my game to gather dust in ungrateful card farmer's library.
I want to give my game to people who can't afford games and would really appreciate getting a game for free.
I no longer think that SteamGifts is a good site for that.
I do appreciate slow players and I completely agree that games should not become a chore. I don't have much time to play games either, that's why I stopped entering giveaways after winning two games and realizing that I'll never have time to finish them.
You are completely right about making game more accessible - I am constantly improving it to make it easier for new players to get in.
For example, the latest update added an easy mode.
Thanks for taking your time to write such a detailed reply!
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I don't have all the time in the world, but I am slowly going through my backlog and trying to play all my wins + my purchased stuff.
But this site is addicting and it's really difficult to stop entering giveaways for wishlisted games.
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One of my friends got this game i would ask him to play it
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I actually played Sector Six during the last two days quite a bit (and yes I won it here and didn't play it until now). The game is quite interesting and I'm going to play it even more next week. It's an interesting coincidence that you started this topic a few days after I started 'working' on my Steamgifts backlog (you can thank LastM for that: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/UZiI0/do-you-play-your-sg-wins-dead-cells-ga/search?page=8#yIMHlYK). I will most likely first ask a question or two on the community forum and then write a review for your game.
P.S.: Is it just me or does the game auto level with you? I found it quite hard to keep up with the damage sponge that the enemies turn into, but I might have missed something.
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Cool coincidence =]
You must be out of those golden 5 from 50.
P.S.: Yes, they do auto-level. If you find it too hard, turn on easy mode and/or disable XP gain until catch with the the enemies if they managed to get ahead of you.
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Hehe, I was wondering why there was an option to turn off XP gain, but I think I get it now ;) Pretty neat idea :) I'll actually play it for a bit right now. I have to say that I really like the idea of your game and even if some of the enemy types are either too easy or too hard, the overall game play is really good. I'll put a few more hours into the game and then I'll write a review for it. Keep it up and it's sad that you don't get more feedback from here as your game is one of the not so many that is actually worth playing :)
Oh and thank you for the quick reply.
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Hmm, I just played one mission without XP gain. I guess I have to play until I get better parts then? Because with auto level it turns into a grind fest then and I can't stand games that rely on RNG to take care of actual content. Again I might miss something essential (I very often feel that way when playing games...), but I just deal way too less damge to a Veteran at level 6 with my level 5 spaceship and if the only way to increase the odds (deal more damage) is by waiting for better parts to drop I guess I would not pursue playing.
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Sector Six does not relies on RNG. Well, not too much... But it does rely on understanding the game and it might be hard to understand.
If you carefully read tooltips and descriptions, you should get enough information to play and enjoy the game. If not, there's a ship building guide and discussions. I'm always ready to answer your questions about the game.
Damage relies on weapons - currently relays and nodes. If you have a secured Deep Path region, there's a weapon shop. You can sell junk and outdated equipment to buy your level weapons, it should be fairly easy. With easy mode enabled and your level weapons, you should be able to destroy big enemies in 2-3 hits, it will be so easy, that you will WANT to increase difficulty. And there's a lot of options for that =]
EDIT: Also, different weapons boost different abilities, that should be understandable from ability and weapon tooltips, but just in case. Relays boost orange abilities, nodes boost green abilities.
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I know the game is in early access, but it really could use some tutorial. I have more 'node' than 'relay' damage, but since I didn't notice the left and right arrows on the abilities page, I only use 'relay' damage... Thank you once again and I will read everything carefully tomorrow before asking anything else.
Edit: I went into the game, tried to exchange an ability and couldn't figure out how to assign a green ability. If there's any 'Sector Six for dummies' around, please let me know. The game really has potential, but it's quite hidden for now.
Edit 2: I played another 10 minutes and I have some feedback. The game punishes you for levelling up. That's how it feels. Adding one part per level to your ship doesn't nearly make up for the massive amount of hit points that the enemies gain. Yeah, I can play on easy mode, but I shouldn't have to. There might be a way to balance that massive increase in hit points out, but it's by far too hard to figure out unless you want your players to go through trial and error. I really appreciate that you took the time to answer me and I really enjoyed the start of the game, but I can't really enjoy it anymore. If you want your players to play the game a certain way, please give them a fair amount of hints. That's my honest opinion about the game for now.
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Ah, you must have to upgrade ability level 1 to be able to equip it.
I'll look into improving tutorials for spaceship building and ability equipping.
There's a spaceship building guide: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=838548916
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I've not even played yet(Though the game looks fuckin sweet) but I see the issue as well, its FF8 all over again, it doesn't scale in a way that keeps things competitive like Oblivion(This assumes you didn't just ignore all combat skills and went full social) but rather just encourages you to never level up and instead power up hard through a secondary source
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Well, I bet it is less of a problem in Sector Six - you can equip more items if your level is higher, I think that good enough incentive to level up. I could change it, if it will turn out to be a real problem.
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From what I'm hearing, maybe just tone down the scaling effect
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I do my best to play all of the games that I've won, but I've had to balance that out with an academically intensive major (and my not being smart enough for it xP) and the fact that my comp doesn't run all the games I wish it would :,) Sometimes even games that have low specs, my comp just won't run. I do card farm them, yes, but every game I enter is for one that I do hold an interest in playing, it just may take a bit to get to.
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I can completely understand that. I myself don't have time to play games.
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If only life could be spent doing nothing but xP
Took a look at your game and wishlisted it, by the way. It looks really cool!
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/465020/Sector_Six/
This one?I haven't played it,but since most of people who have played it left positive reviews on steam,I think it's a good game.
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Look into this group: Playing Appreciated... read their rules, I believe they will fit your case perfectly, and post there / talk to the curator to explain your intention. The purpose of the group is exactly to make sure that the GA winners actually give won games a fair try (the definition of which depends on the length and type of game).
You can then complement the rules by requesting feedback on the GA description (although winners will not be obligated to actually provide it, some will actually read and be willing to help).
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Hey all!
EDIT: I am now going to run giveaways with help of Playing Appreciated, Actually Playing games and BLAEO groups. I will also make whitelist giveaways and specifically state that my giveaways are not just for getting some free cards. Thank you all for hundred of replies, now I have a clear understanding of what is going on SteamGifts.
I am slightly disappointed in running game giveaways on this site.
I've given away 50 keys of my game several times and usually my game* gets drained of cards through idling bots, with only a few people of those 50 trying to actually play it.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Maybe I should some sort of restrictions on my giveaways, so my keys wouldn't go to card farmers?
Or is this website just full of people who just want to sell my game's cards to buy some stupid Rainbow Pony Deluxe CS: GO Butter Knife skins and it's impossible to avoid them?
I don't want to give my game to people who don't plan to play it.
I get it, sometimes you just want to idle cards, because you know you'll never have time to play that game.
O the game is just not interesting to you.
But just idle the game without even trying it for 15 mins? C'mon.
I worked really hard on the game. Then I gave it away for free. Then I want to see people achieve achievements, take screenshots, maybe leave a review or comment, enter leaderboards, anything.
But nope!
After giveaway ends it's dead quiet, I get nothing out of it.
I mean, maybe my game is not good?
But then it doesn't seem like anyone would even try to see if it's bad or good.
So, what the hell?!
End of the vent.
*I am one and only developer of Sector Six. You've probably never heard of it.
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