Here:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/developing-epic-games-launcher-appears-to-collect-your-steam-friends-play-history-up2-valve-responds-see-threadmarks.105385/
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/epic-promises-to-fix-game-launcher-after-privacy-concerns/
Do a little research before claiming that EGS is not spyware.
Comment has been collapsed.
Have you even read the post?
This is exactly what I was saying. It did copy the localconfig.vdf file but there's no reason to believe any additional information was being sent.
Comment has been collapsed.
"The Steam Client locally saves data such as the list of games you own, your friends list and saved login tokens (similar to information stored in web browser cookies). This is private user data, stored on the user's home machine and is not intended to be used by other programs or uploaded to any 3rd party service. "
I don't care whatever if that info is sent or not. The fact that they are scooping my files is the definition of spyware.
Comment has been collapsed.
The definition of spyware:
"software that enables a user to obtain covert information about another's computer activities by transmitting data covertly from their hard drive."
It doesn't transmit that data, unless you want to add your friends from Steam. It used to copy that file. And as I said, personally I do chalk it up to the pressure on developers to have a working solution. You don't have to believe it, but still there's no reason to believe that the launcher is spyware. There's no evidence of any data being sent, except the one that you agreed to.
Comment has been collapsed.
Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization, sometimes without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware
Extracting information from other programs running on the same machine, without being explicitly allowed by those applications (e.g. through API), is the definition of spyware. Nothing needs to be transmitted, but even if you insisted that it has to, then you're wrong once again because the list of your friends has to be sent to Epic servers in order to discover Epic users according to Steam IDs. Whether they do something else with those Steam IDs or just return you Epic users that matched them is irrelevant.
Valve did not authorize any third-party program to fiddle with internal Steam files, regardless whether user authorized Epic app to do so or not.
Comment has been collapsed.
Again, it does not gather the information. It stays on your disk.
The list of your friends is sent by your permission.
Comment has been collapsed.
Nothing needs to be transmitted, but even if you insisted that it has to, then you're wrong once again because the list of your friends has to be sent to Epic servers in order to discover Epic users according to Steam IDs. Whether they do something else with those Steam IDs or just return you Epic users that matched them is irrelevant.
Reading comprehension.
Comment has been collapsed.
Same to you, mate
Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization, sometimes without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge, or it may send such information to another entity with the consumer's consent, through cookies.
The sending part is pretty crucial here. None of the two scenarios happen here.
Comment has been collapsed.
I've just linked you the definition that states otherwise, just because your source defines it as something else does not mean that it's generally-accepted definition. As a software architect with heavy programming experience, I'd label it as spyware as well.
And I also proved to you that the data has to be sent, regardless of the definition.
Comment has been collapsed.
This is the same definition. Just with the part you conveniently omitted.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's nowhere stated that the Epic launcher will access internal Steam files that Valve did not permit Epic launcher to access in order to extract from that data Steam IDs of your friends and send them to the Epic servers in order to discover Epic users that match them.
And no amount of times you repeat yourself will change that. Both accessing files without authorization as well as data transmission happens. The user is not informed about any of that, and you have no proof that Epic uses that data "just" for friends discovery, since you have no insight in their backend code. Accessing files of other programs without authorization from them is already a definition of malware.
Comment has been collapsed.
The copying of the file BEFORE being allowed to do so is a big no-no and they've admitted it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0rxdq/epic_game_store_spyware_tracking_and_you/eikbeya/
The accessing of the file itself is up to you, the user, though. It's just an unencrypted file on your disk. Unfortunately, I'm no lawyer, so I can't really tell if that breaks any actual laws. Personally, if the file was protected in any way and the launcher would then attempt to breach that protection to get your data, that would be wrong. As is now, Valve stores that data completely unencrypted, pretty much open to public. Accessing it is probably(?) just fine from the legal point of view.
As for the data transmission it only happens with the user's permission.
Comment has been collapsed.
You may not use the Content and Services for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions, and to make personal, non-commercial use of your Subscriptions, except as otherwise permitted by this Agreement or applicable Subscription Terms. Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Content and Services or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
The fact that Epic broke Steam ToS is non-disputable (not only that point). Whether they gonna have some legal problems because of that is whole another story. Storing files unencrypted does not magically allow you to do data mining on them, cross-app access is defined and controlled through publicly-exposed APIs. Valve themselves stated that this file was not supposed to be used by any third-party software. User agreeing to that is irrelevant.
Comment has been collapsed.
Depends on card farming program, but ASF for instance does not access any Steam files on your PC (it works without Steam client being installed at all), and the communication with the Steam network is done through officially defined and exposed protocols (API) that Steam client also uses. ASF also doesn't use Steam or Steam services for anything else than personal non-commercial access to the service and games, which is permitted by above point. If you're interested in more details, visit the ASF's FAQ where I analyze the ToS compliance.
I can't speak for other programs since I didn't analyze their source code to this level.
Comment has been collapsed.
Out of curiosity, is card farming considered non-commercial because its responsibility falls to the user rather than the program?
It's non-commercial because the legal owners of the program/service (in this case, me) does not profit from ASF accessing Steam services in your name. This is different than Epic, which bases one of the platform features (Steam friends discovery) on non-regulated access to the Steam platform, and as a company (moreso, competition) does profit from their platform, and therefore offering this feature to the users of it.
Truth is that if Valve wanted then they could pretty much find ToS point for every single Steam-based integration tool, since even data mining through official and public APIs is deemed as illegal, and this is exactly what SteamGifts itself is doing (games mining, profiles mining, groups mining, more). In practice, ASF is one of the safer programs since I do my best to comply with Steam ToS and work with Valve on good terms, as opposed to doing sneaky backstabbing like Epic or other programs which couldn't care less what happens to the user. It's in my best interest, since I'm the primary user of the ASF myself, and I wouldn't want to get myself banned over my own neglect either. More than 730k of Steam users trusted me on this by now.
There is also a difference in legal matters, since ASF is just a tool and ASF license explicitly states that you're using it at your own risk and you couldn't sue code contributors (including me) for any potential harm, malfunction or infringement, even intentional. It's different with Epic which is a company and can be sued as per the law of the countries it's doing business in.
Comment has been collapsed.
Then again:
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms)
I do think if Epic broke the Steam ToS so clearly, Valve would be really jumping their bones with proper legal actions.
Anyway, I would forgo the legal dispute here as we're both developers and not lawyers. The Steam API is obviously the right choice here, as even if this whole thing is actually legal, you can't guarantee that the .vdf file remains unchanged, basically nuking your solution at a random point in time.
But as I mentioned in the original post. From my experience in some companies, shortcuts like that happen in teams with heavily goal-oriented management that doesn't care about quality.
All the above doesn't really qualify the launcher to be spyware. There's no reason to believe they actually sent any of the data additionally, to the friends list that the user agrees to.
Which basically leads us to my actual post. Everything else that was a topic of the reddit post and the image I posted is a blatant lie/misinformation. EXCEPT for the localconfig.vdf part, which definitely is not how the friends import should be implemented.
Comment has been collapsed.
Lol, imagine being such a shit company that you leave in code that inadvertently accesses your competitor's files... also, admit all you want, it did that crap and they admitted it. Doesn't matter if it wasn't intentional. In all honesty, it makes it even worse to an extent. What other holes have they got in their system? The accounts getting hacked daily with users never getting it back or them saving your payment data on their service with people losing thousands (probably collectively tens of thousands) of dollars just because Epic can't handle anything they should be doing.
Epic's been spyware, even if it didn't mean to do it. You can close your eyes and yell "LALALALA" all you want, but they did what they did.
There's a reason I'm not saying they should be sued or whatever else. It's because I know it's a massive, insanely huge oversight. It's incompetence at its best.
Comment has been collapsed.
Of course, it's an oversight and a mistake, but then again, it's not the first and not the last mistake of any major company. And I guess you're also not using Steam then, which had many reported vulnerabilities and opportunities to leak out personal data. Or you de-installed your CPU as it had a massive vulnerability (yet somehow Intel and AMD received almost no repercussions).
So yeah, basically that's what I think about that. I've made mistakes when programming as well, shit happens. The only reason why people are making a huge deal out of it is that it fits their narrative on the big, bad epic. I mean, just last year Valve admitted that due to a security hole 125 millions of accounts were vulnerable and no one really cared...
Comment has been collapsed.
Of course, that's for sure. Companies will screw up. I'll also mock the shit out of them for it.
The issue is that with EGS, this isn't the only issue, so it makes an already massive target even bigger.
It's good to have counter-points to things. Personally I don't have a grudge against those that use/support EGS because it's a free market and the people using it are obviously fine with all the downsides and upsides that the product has.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ok, I'm fine with this then. All I'm saying is people are giving Epic a lot of undeserved shit, but yeah, they do a lot of other annoying stuff that they do deserve shit for. I'm just horribly fed up with people spreading the misinformation that some guy on reddit posted (and then got completely ridiculed for it on r/programming).
Comment has been collapsed.
As a programmer myself yeah I've seen people doing shortcut like that too, even though they are fully aware that it's not a good solution. Both are different means for the exact same purpose: to make it easier for users to find Steam friends. Honestly I wouldn't mind if Epic is accessing my Steam friends list, more handy than manually searching for IDs =/
Epic should patch it up and make a press release ASAP.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yep, it's just how it works most of the time, unfortunately... But still, Sweeney seems to be supporting the decision to go for the Steam file instead of using their API and that's the bit I can't understand. Like, why would you ever do that? They took the blame for doing it without user's consent, but it seems they're gonna keep using Steam's file, it's a wrong decision imo.
Comment has been collapsed.
this comment made me laugh so hard, OFC, data stay on disk but data mined and still sent.
Additionally, it was confirmed the DRM also sent data from those who not confirmed, this way they see even private profiles. And epic already proved they collecting data from computers else how the hell could they give such advertisement bait to developers "we have 85 million registered users, 40% of them don't have steam account installed", yeah, no spyware, how else they know that the rest 60% have steam on their computer (while most of those went there only for the free games).
It is also funny you arguing with programmers in this topic:-)
Comment has been collapsed.
That's the thing, there's no proof whatsoever that the data was sent, ever. So saying that it was 'data mined and still sent' is just plain wrong.
Also funny that all it takes you to believe someone is for them to say they're programmers. If you want to know, I'm a programmer myself with almost 10 years of experience...
Comment has been collapsed.
No offense, but "there's no proof whatsoever that the data was sent" also means "there's no proof whatsoever that the data was NOT sent"
So, "Epic Games Store might suck, but it's definitely NOT a spyware" is wrong. The title at best would be "Epic Games Store might suck, but there is no proof it is spyware"
And sorry, but if they didn't send any data, WHY WERE THEY COPYING THE STEAM FILE IN THE FIRST PLACE? Every single time Facebook, google or amazon found a way to get even more information for the user, they did it. Information about users have a huge importance. Are you telling me that they found where steam had the user's information (I didn't even know about those files) made a programming effort to copy the file, to obfuscate the fact they were copying the file, made a point of breaking european law that forbids it taking private data without express authorization... just for fun? What's the point of just storing all that precious information and not sending it? It's not like they did a big effort of asking users of adding their steam friends.
Or maybe they just sent the data.
Occam's razor
Comment has been collapsed.
If you wanna go by Occam's razor, then tell me what sounds more plausible. A company that operates with billions of dollars makes the lousiest, most transparent attempt at 'stealing' your, pretty unimportant Steam data or a developer goes by the easiest way possible to make a deadline and copies the file instead of actually implementing a proper way of communicating with the Steamworks API.
So yeah, no one can really prove that it didn't send your data, but there's no proof the other way either, so it's hard to talk about a spyware. Plus, I believe if there was any actual proof that anything nefarious happened, EU would be all over Epic for that and rightly so. So yeah, they should get shit where shit is due for a sloppy implementation of a feature but calling it spyware is definitely pushing it.
Comment has been collapsed.
"the lousiest, most transparent attempt" To be fair, it took months for the most popular game in the world before people found out it happened. And that because people were concerned about chinese spying and the way Epic was operating. It wasn't so transparent
" at 'stealing' your" Taking without consent? Yeah, that's usually called stealing.
"pretty unimportant Steam data" Considering that the owner of Epic has gone of record demanding of steam to not encrypt that data, and let Epic keep getting it (through the proper channels) we can all agree is something important.
"or a developer goes by the easiest way possible to make a deadline and copies the file instead of actually implementing a proper way of communicating with the Steamworks API." No, they confessed they didn't want to go through Steamworks API on purpose. They didn't like going through any third-party programs.
"calling it spyware is definitely pushing it." Wikipedia: Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization, sometimes without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge, or it may send such information to another entity with the consumer's consent, through cookies
Right now, at this moment, Epic is officially and on purpose taking information of your steam friends, if you give your consent. That's, according to the wikipedia, spyware.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just because it took a long time to notice, doesn't mean it was lousy. Like seriously, you'd imagine they'd at least delete the copy of the file after the 'stole' your data.
Considering that the owner of Epic has gone of record demanding of steam to not encrypt that data, and let Epic keep getting it (through the proper channels) we can all agree is something important.
Yes, for the friends import feature to continue to work. If Steam wanted they could just change the structure of the localconfig.vdf file and suddenly Epic's feature stops working :P So, yeah it is important for them to have Steam keep the file as-is until they actually fix the implementation.
"or a developer goes by the easiest way possible to make a deadline and copies the file instead of actually implementing a proper way of communicating with the Steamworks API." No, they confessed they didn't want to go through Steamworks API on purpose. They didn't like going through any third-party programs.
Yes, they did, which to be honest, feels like a horrible decision. The funky bit is the copying of the file before the user gave permission for the Steam friends import. The rest is business between Epic and Steam.
"calling it spyware is definitely pushing it." Wikipedia: Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization, sometimes without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge, or it may send such information to another entity with the consumer's consent, through cookies
Right now, at this moment, Epic is officially and on purpose taking information of your steam friends, if you give your consent. That's, according to the wikipedia, spyware.
Read the definition again please, spyware sends the data without your consent. The launcher only send the friends list after it gets your consent and that's why it's not spyware...
Comment has been collapsed.
"If Steam wanted they could just change the structure of the localconfig.vdf file and suddenly Epic's feature stops working" So they move the localconfig.vdf somewhere else, so Epic can copy it again? Or change the structure, so Epic can copy everything again?
"Read the definition again please, spyware sends the data without your consent"
Directly from the definition: "it may send such information to another entity with the consumer's consent"
"The launcher only send the friends list after it gets your consent and that's why it's not spyware..."
And that the launcher only sent the friends list after it gets your consent, is not proven. Fact is, most people suspect they sent the data to Epic even before that. I just explained to you why that doesn't make any sense that it did it only after getting the consent.
If they care so much about the data (they always copied the data) , and so little about connecting to your steam friends (not once a prompt appears, even as a suggestion) , it makes more sense they just sent the data even without your consent.
Comment has been collapsed.
Directly from the definition: "it may send such information to another entity with the consumer's consent"
Yes, but it doesn't send it to other party :P I think you misunderstand the definition. If they sent it to, for example, another company, a third party, while you agreed to only share the data with them, then it's illegal. What's happening now is, you give the consent to send the data to Epic's servers and that's what happens. It's a pretty regular thing.
I mean people can 'suspect' and 'guess' but there's no proof that anything like that happened and I've read their (Epic's devs') explanations and they make sense, the logic is sound.
Anyway, we can continue tomorrow, as it's 3am here and I'm literally falling asleep. Cheers and good night.
Comment has been collapsed.
Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization, sometimes without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge, or it may send such information to another entity with the consumer's consent
It is gathering steam information and sending to another entity, epic servers, even with your consent. Sounds like spyware. It's literally, again, with your consent, gathering information.
Comment has been collapsed.
Nothing needs to be transmitted, but even if you insisted that it has to, then you're wrong
Well apparently I'm wrong :p But I don't know if anyone would classify a program (probably the wrong word) that gathers information and never sends it to anyone, as spyware. I don't see the point of a program just collecting information and not doing anything with it? Maybe I'm missing something here. Unless it's some sort of shaming software that relays the information back to the user.
Comment has been collapsed.
Made me chuckle actually. Imagine a pop-up every now and then saying: 'Dude, you've played like 10 hours of that hentai game on Steam... Shame on you...'
Comment has been collapsed.
The more I think about shaming spyware, the more I wish it was an actual thing :D
Comment has been collapsed.
Epic may not be, but I certainly feel like the Chrome browser is. I opened Chrome a day or two ago and noticed it was running a new version even though I specifically disabled both of the google update services, disabled and deleted google update from the task scheduler, and completely deleted the Update folder with all of the files needed from the program folder. Google just decided to reinstall all the files, services, and tasks and update anyway.
Then I just launched Chrome today and noticed something was causing non stop disk activity. I checked and there was something running called software_reporter_tool.exe. Looked it up and of course it's Google scanning my computer.
I just completely deleted the update services from the registry, deleted the update files, deleted the tasks, locked software_reporter_tool.exe so it cannot be run, and changed a registry setting to stop Chrome from updating. Maybe it will work this time, but I have my doubts.
I only use Chrome for this site and Steam, but I'm seriously considering getting rid of it.
Edit: I just installed the group policy template for google updates and followed the instructions here and here. It created a new registry entry, so hopefully that will stop it for good.
Comment has been collapsed.
Join the Firefox master race and with a few extensions you'll never need to worry anymore.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have always preferred Firefox and still do. A few years ago, I was using an old version of Firefox that had some issues with this site, but worked fine everywhere else and I didn't want to update it. I installed Chrome just to use this site and kept using Firefox for everything else.
I have come to like doing things this way because I like to clear my browser history, cookies, and everything else everytime I close the browser, but I use this site very often throughout the day, at least once per hour, usually more. Using a second browser, I can just leave Chrome signed into SG forever and only use it for this site and Steam games while doing everything else on Firefox and not having to worry about signing in and out.
I personally hate Chrome. It doesn't have the flexibility of Firefox. It's like an Apple product where they decide what is best for their users and lock everything down. With every new update they change and break things and remove features that use to exist. Microsoft has been doing the same thing with every version of Windows after XP and even Firefox has been starting to do it, but neither are anywhere near as bad as Chrome.
Comment has been collapsed.
Could that be an Epic employee or paid sponsor I smell here?
Comment has been collapsed.
Yep, people with a different opinion are always paid by someone, probably a marvel super villain that wants to destroy the world
Comment has been collapsed.
Different opinions scare me, so I prefer the Avengers route of things where there's just "the bad".
Comment has been collapsed.
Did you read carefuly privacy policy of epic client?Just be honest and answer pls with yes or no.
Comment has been collapsed.
yes and i suggest you to take a careful read to understand why there are so many concerns about that client. I love epic and unreal engine but their privacy policy is really shady.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ok, I've read this one: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/privacypolicy. I don't really see anything weird. Looks like a pretty standard privacy policy.
Which parts are shady according to you?
Comment has been collapsed.
Probably the parts that are part of all, but they didn't read those.
Remind me of all the Origin oitcry of basic parts of the EULA.
Comment has been collapsed.
Privacy Policy must be clean on things. They say they collect automatically data from "other software" and they don't clarify they mean software provided by epic. That sentence "To better understand our users, their interests, and their preferences;" in "How We Use and Share Information" makes sense to you?That literally says they can do with the data they collect whatever they want..
Comment has been collapsed.
I guess what you mean is they receive user data from other parties? I think it's pretty well explained in the
(3) Information We Receive from Others
As for the
'To better understand our users, their interests, and their preferences;'
To me that seems like a regular personalization practices. So basically what all the big companies are doing, trying to figure out what might be of interest to you and then showing it to you to boost their sales. I think it's an equivalent of the following part of Steam's privacy policy, as Valve also collects and uses your data to further their sales:
Valve collects and processes Personal Data for the following reasons:
c) where it is necessary for the purposes of the legitimate and legal interests of Valve or a third party (e.g. the interests of our other customers), except where such interests are overridden by your prevailing legitimate interests and rights;
Then again, that's just my (mis)interpretation. It would probably take a lawyer, and a good one at that, to fully understand to what we're agreeing when we accept the privacy policies of all those companies.
Comment has been collapsed.
The section 3 is a diferent sectio and it doesn't mean it cancels anything in the second.But even that doesn't clarify things,it says "generally" they collect data in 4 ways. And btw if you believe they collect data only with these 4 ways then with the copy of Steam localconfig.vdf file they violated their privacy terms.
That "legitimate interests" on steam privacy is a GDPR term and contains some very specific things they can do with the data.Epic sentence is so generic that contains i guess everything.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah cool, didn't know that 'legitimate interest' is a GDPR related term, TIL I guess.
Comment has been collapsed.
The only programmaticaly bad thing that the launcher did was copying and reading your local Steam localconfig.vdf file for the friends list. This shouldn't happen as that information should be (most probably is) retrievable through Steam API. The official explanation is that was done because it was a quick workaround.
A workaround for something which isn't needed (and probably not that profitable due to mostly different user names), because Epic suddenly wanted to compete with Steam as fast as they could? Even if it wasn't intended to gather additional Steam user data, it's a mistake and a PR desaster.
Comment has been collapsed.
Spyware or not, I will not accept reading through third-party files on my computer. Even if it asks me and I say 'No', the software itself and many business aspects standing behind it are so shady I wouldn't trust the app to not perform any kind of spying in the background.
I mean, the main, undeniable and only way of Epic's Store to establish it's position in the market is to steal users from Steam or force them out by bribing publishers and developers. Making everything easy and attractive for publishers, not necessarily for gamers ... cause
'they have to come to us anyway, right? We've paid a crapload of money to force them to'.
And it's harming us, gamers before everything else. I will never support this 'store' or their way of doing things.
Comment has been collapsed.
And you're free to do so. It is true, Epic's way is to directly challenge Steam and get its users, not sure if we can talk about stealing here, as it's not like you can be a user of only one of them.
As for harming the gamers, etc. I still remember, years ago, when people would hate on Steam for how the digitalization of games was making them lose the ownership of the games they buy. It all (sort of?) worked out in th end though. I'm actually interested how the situation with Epic develops. It could actually be a good thing in the long run. More money that goes to the devs could equal better quality of games. Doesn't have to, but could.
Personally, what I see as the biggest threat to gaming is always the predatory monetization practices. Lootboxes are an invention of the devil and I can't wait till more countries adapt the same rules as Belgium already have.
Comment has been collapsed.
I understand the reason behind your note on stealing but as much as you can be user on both platforms, you cannot play same games on both if they are exclusives. From Epic's actions so far I'm leaning towards stating that they're mostly focused on pleasing publishers and not really gamers. The only things they've actually done for gamers are:
- free games every few weeks (mostly small or old)
- lower prices for some titles (perhaps due to lower cut but you never know about all the deals behind the scenes)
That's it. Some can say it's a lot but I'm being sceptical about whether those 'features' are staying with us in the longer run. Fortnite money will dry out eventually and they(Epic) will struggle more and more to give away as much money as they do now. Then it will become apparent that those delicious super-low cuts are not enough to keep the store going and things will have to change. Free games shall end and cuts will start to grow as will prices for customers.
Personally, I think Epic is aiming to become monopolistic replacement for Steam when it comes down to blockbuster titles. And as far as you can hate Steam for many things Valve still does a lot great things for community and the industry. Things that aren't actually bringing them much profit, if any (like Linux play or recent release of open source net framework). I don't think Epic's vision of monopoly is the community-friendly one. I'm afraid it might become publisher driven playground for milkin' more and more money.
Comment has been collapsed.
You can play them on both platforms, it's just Steam will be late with it. Not a big deal for me as I never really purchase not discounted AAA games and I'll probably get those games on Steam anyway.
Fortnite money is probably not going to dry out anytime soon though. Don't quote me on that, but I've read somewhere that Epic has 5 billion dollars to spend on the store development from investors and Fortnite combined.
Personally, I'm sticking to Steam, because I just can't enjoy the games anymore without the Steam achievements and I do enjoy reading and writing game reviews. So until those feature make it to the Epic Games Store, it might as well not exist for me. I might get a freebie here or there, but that's pretty much it. And I'm definitely not denying Valve's input on the Indie market development, Linux gaming as well as other gaming fronts.
Personally, I don't think it's possible to become a monopolistic replacement for Steam anymore. My library itself is worth 24k$ if I were to buy it all anew today and I can't see ever abandoning it. I don't know what the future will bring, I do agree with Sweeney on that you can't challenge Steam without some radical moves though. We'll probably see in a few years how it all works out.
Comment has been collapsed.
No one really gives two shits what someone else's definition of spyware is.
They did some shady ass shit on my machine, and I don't like it. .
When a client is going through my games and friend's list and copying files from that client to even possibly be used by their own client prior to having my permission to do so, it's spyware to me.
Comment has been collapsed.
it only did it after you clicked import steam friends...
So you gave the permission
Comment has been collapsed.
Incorrect. That file was created and I've never given them permission (still haven't) to import anything.
Comment has been collapsed.
Tzaar is actually in the right here. The workaround the devs admitted to was copying the file immediately during installation of the launcher (due to having admin rights at that moment) as opposed to when actually trying to import the users.
Comment has been collapsed.
I wonder why nobody is raging about valve storing all the private data in an unsecured file...
Comment has been collapsed.
Because it's not really private and any game/app running on your machine can already ask for that info through Steamworks bridge. Your Steam games and friends do not really interest anybody, except a few very minor use cases like epic.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yet everyone acts this is the vital data the Chinese need to rule the world.
Comment has been collapsed.
just gonna leave this here , and anyone with that crap installed on their pc can check it for themselves https://i.imgur.com/Lnhr2p5.jpg
i already deeted my epic games account and that's what i said in the mail
" Hi , i would like to close my epic account . i was too excited for this store and was willing to support it when i first heared of it during the last game award but i was held back not too far from that thanks to the bs exclusivity bombs you kept pulling off . i made a promise that i won't be spending a dime here until the exclusivity bs is dropped down but it seems it's not going to end anytime soon and thus i decided to drop down my hopes and wish your service will improve and you will finally be able to realise the true good will you showed when you first announced the egs cause now you staryed to far from that line . i'll stick to my 1000+ games steam account and my 252 gog games accounts in case you thought people are bashing your store cause they will buy their games on steam regardless of what other stores have to offer and that's when you're hugely mistaken . oh and btw your store have Nothing attractive anyway other than the fact that we gamers (at least for me) were only going to buy games here to support developpers and help get other platformes to offer them bigger cut but you seem to have ruined it all honestly :) "
Comment has been collapsed.
You know I've linked this image in my original post, right? And then briefly explained why most of it is bullshit. Just because someone made a picture on the Internet doesn't automatically make it true.
As for the exclusivity, sure, you're free to boycott the store because of it. I don't really care about it, but I can see it being a minor thorn in side of some people.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sad that everyone forgets so soon that SGtools is also spyware they voluntarily download onto their motherboard
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/CTo98/sgtools-is-a-spyware-tool
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't know about that, all I know and care is that I'm having tons of fun with Satisfactory.
Their software piece is heavy and bloated, but any other game launcher on the market probably is.
And thanks for the GAs!
Comment has been collapsed.
Sometimes I think there are too many Epic Games Store posts here and then I go and take a look at my Facebook...
Comment has been collapsed.
I seriously wish my Facebook feed looked like that...
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh, I do intend to :) I hope the result of that battle will actually be good for us all.
Comment has been collapsed.
Tencent owns 48% of Epic Games. Tencent is notorious for creating spyware, adware and crapware that comes pre-installed on new PCs, as well as working with the Chinese government to spy on it's citizens. Whether the Epic Games client is spyware now or not, I want nothing to do with a company that funds a scumbag company like Tencent.
Comment has been collapsed.
I remember when people still said 30%
Then it went 40%. Now it's 48% just in a couple weeks. How long till 200%
And with the USA blaming Huawai with "just trust us" while security experts find nothing and Trump goes full RED DANGER! all this seems even more suspicious.
The real danger always has been the USA, not China. Don't recall China going "if you don't boycot x, we'll just not tell you about terrorists anymore" like the US is doing now. Such great allies.
Comment has been collapsed.
40% of Epic owns Tencent, still it's a very big cut of a company. And still I'd trust a company from democratic country rather than from China.
Comment has been collapsed.
Read up.some stuff, yeah, 48.4 in 2012. Guess all other ppsts I read did similar zero research into this as me :)
And democracy means little... Facebook was a thing. They just got caught. Definitely not under the illussion not more do just that but get away with it so far. Captalism means your data is worth a fortune, every company jumps on that.
Comment has been collapsed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games
Owners
Tim Sweeney (>50%)
Tencent (48.4%)
It doesn't matter if it's 40% or 48%, I want nothing to do with Tencent or anything they own.
The Chinese government has been passing more and more strict intelligence laws that requires its citizens and companies to help the government participate in espionage.
China passes tough new intelligence law
What you need to know about China’s intelligence law that takes effect today
Beijing’s New National Intelligence Law: From Defense to Offense
Article Seven stipulates that “any organization or citizen shall support, assist, and cooperate with state intelligence work according to law.”
Comment has been collapsed.
Won't change my mind about that chinese spyware crap and douchebag tim swine-ey
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not about changing your mind, it's about getting facts straight. Plus, no offense, but taking a 'you can't change my mind no matter what' stance is not really something to be proud of.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not a spyware it's a bitcoin mining tool. Everything's ok. :D
TBH I will not be surprised if some EG employee remembers ESEA and actually makes some money.
Just in case you want to hate me now. It's just a joke. :D But their shop is quite bad regardless =( I miss good old times when games and shops were released some 90% complete, not 35%
Comment has been collapsed.
It's cool, I have better ways to spend my time than hating people over Internet :P
Yeah, Epic's launcher misses too many features to be usable to me, as well. Those times are long gone though as we all agreed to being the alpha/beta testers of games and features and companies saw we actually enjoy that.
Comment has been collapsed.
let me rephrase the title
"Epic Games Store might suck, and it still SUCK"
regardless it's a spyware or not
Comment has been collapsed.
Not here to argue that, I also think it sucks. I just like it when people have their facts straight.
Comment has been collapsed.
i "don't really know" if it's spyware or not. with so many news out there
but being cautious is better than nothing
although in this case i still have it installed regardless (duhh, free game also i need it's launcher to play it), so what if they spy on me
i'm on 3rd world country lol, do they even want my stuff??
i hate their business strategy, but i still love free games lol
Comment has been collapsed.
Cool, I can accept that view. All in all, it's probably hard to tell without actual programming knowledge what is true and what is not through the multitude of posts and threads about epic launcher. Cheers.
Comment has been collapsed.
Actually, I believe you only need the launcher to download the games, and can then just find the .exe files and launch them that way and bypass the launcher entirely once they're installed.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not DRM free like GOG, but yes, sort of.
You need to use the launcher to download and install the game, but Epic does not require or mandate DRM, nor require use of the launcher like Uplay, Origin, or most Steam games. Once you get the game installed, there's no DRM, and you don't need to use the launcher after installation. But you do have to manually find the .exe file and create your own shortcut (as with the rare DRM-free Steam game), since the launcher doesn't do that for you.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not hating on them, I just saw that, and people posting that, so I assumed it was true
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm so tired of seeing this information brainlessly posted everywhere and responding to each post separately. It's annoying. People hate on anti-vaxxers because 'they see a few articles on the Internet and blindly follow them while ignoring facts lol' and then do EXACTLY the same.
So you've probably seen this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0rxdq/epic_game_store_spyware_tracking_and_you/ or that image that originates from 4chan: https://i.imgur.com/BqVfzBd.jpg. They are quite possibly created by one person or one was created based on another because they mostly repeat the claims.
Now, if you know like anything about programming, like not even much, you don't even have to be a programmer, you might notice that the creator tries to read a .js file and complains about it being 'unreadable'. This is called minifaction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minification_(programming)) and is done pretty much everywhere to limit the size of the used javascript files, so they don't weigh in on your data usage.
This is basic knowledge for anyone who dabbles with web development. And that person lacks that basic knowledge. He's also weirded out that the application is talking to itself, this is basically how most web apps work nowadays, seriously... He doesn't understand how fiddler and ProcMon work and basically blames everything he sees on the Epic launcher. The language he/she uses is also alarmist and childish. Do you really think it's a trustworthy 'article'?
The only programmaticaly bad thing that the launcher did was copying and reading your local Steam localconfig.vdf file for the friends list. This shouldn't happen as that information should be (most probably is) retrievable through Steam API. The official explanation is that was done because it was a quick workaround. Working as a programmer, I do believe that, as I know how it is when you're behind on a project and the deadline is very near. You don't have to. So yes, that's one thing that is worrisome and even though if you check on what's being sent with fiddler it looks like it's only your steam id and the friends list, POTENTIALLY, something more could be sent in the early stages of the 'workaround'.
If you want to read a bit more, you can check out this link: https://forum.facepunch.com/general/bvnqr/Epic-Games-Store-Is-Shit-But-It-s-Not-Spyware/1/ (even though, the author is a bit of a dick) or google for like 15 minutes on the topic of Epic Games Store being a spyware. It's been clearly debunked and there's completely no reason to believe so. Or you can do what I did, just use ProcMon and Fiddler and see for yourself. Then compare those results to what steamwebhelper, or in fact any other launcher, does.
So yeah, feel free to hate on Epic Games Store, they lack shitload of features (reviews and achievements when?) and they get on people's nerves by signing the exclusive deals (personally I don't care, but I see it's a big issue for some people). There's a lot of valid critique to be said. But please, if you start going on and on about their launcher being a spyware just know that you're embarassing yourself to most people with some technical knowledge and no one will take your other arguments seriously after that.
That is all, here, have some GAs for (not) reading my semi-rant.
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/C16z2/crashlands
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/7i0ce/steamworld-heist
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/o3sbB/ultimate-chicken-horse
Comment has been collapsed.