Thanks for bringing this to people's attention. I read a bunch of reviews, and luckily, people are refunding :D
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Yeah, I wish Steam would allow to mark/shadow ban publishers. As a reminder of their sins before I might end up buying something from them.
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You can ban publishers. You need to enter their Steam site and click options button (cog icon) and click ignore this creator.
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Sometimes it didn't want to work for me and I had to try a few times before Steam understood that I don't want to be bombarded with shity games released every week or month by some publishers :)
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not sure if you are able to confirm but have you ignored 100 publishers and still able to ignore? hmm~
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I read from the comments here i believe that its only 100 publishers/curators. Seems like the case to me as after i un-ignored some publishers, i can add more. :/
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Same for me but I think that's because Steam hasn't imagined the possibility to ignore more than a couple so after a certain number, instead of saying you're limited, they just give you a nonsensical error message.
Imagine if you could ignore all the trash publishers/devs on Steam. They wouldn't want that :P
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That only prevents recommendations. You don't see that "ban" when you simply check a game or add it to your cart.
Edit: Oh, it actually shows a warning in the cart! Niiiiice.
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Ah ok. For me it made some developers/publishers disappear from my recommendations and that was great to not see all that shity games they spew out every month.
But I'm also sure it was saying something on the game page or game list when I did check last time.
Edit: Yeah that is the one :)
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you can only ignore 100 creators.
i have yet to fill mine. but thats really low
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Nacon claims that they have all the rights and for this reason, in January, the version of the game from developers (Frogwares) was removed from Steam
https://corporate.nacongaming.com/en/press/the-sinking-city-stores/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1151760/discussions/0/3005556719744518592/
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The court proceedings are not over yet. Nakon loses because she violated the many terms of the contract. Feeling the loss, they try to collect the last jackpot, again breaking all the rules. Now they sell the very first version of the game from EGS without Steam integration, without achievements, without bug fixes and dlc. The Steam reaction on this scam action will be very interesting,. On my memory this is first scam situation with big publisher, affected parties - developers, buyers and Steam store by itself. Btw they erase all negative topics in steam discusion and messages from deceived buyers. FK NACON!
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Yeah but the Sinking City was removed 2 times so far and what you can buy now on Steam is only the 1.0 version that was available on Epic Game Store at the release before all the patches, updates and DLC and it also has no achievements.
So basically you can buy this game in the state when it was beta tested by players on Epic and if I understood everything correctly only Necon gets the money from this sale and developer does get nothing.
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I think both sides would be able to work something out if they would want but from the info I saw both sides wined different cases in different courts. So right now it is 1:1 I guess?
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I read about this a few days ago. Basically according to Frogwares their publisher (Nacon / BigBen) wasn't paying it royalties on the game, so Frogwares removed the game from sale. Then the courts forced Frogwares to let the game go back on sale because they saw it as something that shouldn't be allowed until the court case was over.
However, keep in mind that Frogwares also accused Focus Home of screwing them over too like a year or two ago. A lot of people seem to feel that it's a bit suspicious Frogwares would get screwed by two different publishers in such a short period of time.
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Yeah that is why I'm not taking anyone side here but the game that you can buy now is not the complete game with no patches and updates and DLC and achievements. It is basically a bare 1.0 version that players on Epic purchased a year ago so they could be beta-testers before the final release of the game.
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And conflict with 1C publisher... and with Microids...
Looks like problem not in ALL publishers 🤔
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Either Frogwares have some REALLY dumb people working for them that don't know how to write up or review legal documents properly, or they're pulling a fast one.
I find it very strange that this is happening to them again in a short period of time. Not taking a side here, just watching to see how this plays out. =)
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That was a different situation. The license agreement between Focus Home and Frogwares expired and Focus Home wouldn't transfer the IPs back to them.
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Frogwares being scummy with this accusation and trying to release their own version quickly before Nacon, right after court declared Nacon having rights until final decision.
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They made the game and were not paid for it. How is it scummy to try and release a complete version to attract attention to the fact the studio screwed them?
Courts are courts. I bet Nacon has more expensive lawyers. tbh, if it was done right, nobody could sell the game or "own the right" until the dispute is settled with no appeal left. Giving Nacon the rights "until final decision" is BS.
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Whatever you think of nacon the courts say they have the right to continue selling the game and Frogwares are trying to imply that isn't the case.
Additionally Frogwares have made a video publicly calling out certain individuals for reverse engineering there game with no proof those individuals were actually involved and that's just poor form, especially whilst there's an ongoing legal case.
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Whatever you think of nacon the courts say they have the right to continue selling the game and Frogwares are trying to imply that isn't the case.
Come on. Whatever happened between them, are you telling me that it's "just fair game" to buy a version, hack into it, add their logo, recompile it and upload it on Steam as if it was theirs?
If you or I were doing that, we'd go to jail. The fact Frogwares are in breach for whatever reason doesn't give Nacon the right to do what they did hoping to make a quick buck on Steam by throwing it on discount before Valve wises up and removes the pirated version of the game.
Say you are in the middle of a messy divorce and the court says you have a visitation right for your kids. If your wife says "well no you can't come this weekend", does it make it ok to break into her house, kidnap the kids and stash them away under a new name? lol
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does it make it ok to break into her house, kidnap the kids and stash them away under a new name? lol
Seems like an elaborate way to avoid child support payments but, okay. :P
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Heh my lady is a lawyer and she has some great stories about the length deadbeat dads (and some moms) would go to.
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Whatever happened between them, are you telling me that it's "just fair game" to buy a version, hack into it, add their logo, recompile it and upload it on Steam as if it was theirs?
No, and I never said that. There are multiple overlapping issues here.
Firstly there's the fact that Nacon do currently have the rights to sell the game, secondly there's Frogwares claims that Nacon don't have the rights to sell this version of the game (despite them having previously sold this version through Epic), then finally there's the hacking/reverse engineering. The first point is indisputable at present regardless of what future rulings may state, the second is something we only have Frogwares claim to support and the third is absolutely unacceptable.
The third point is why Valve (probably Valve as opposed to Nacon, though it wasn't a DMCA claim) have removed the game from sale. This may well come around and bite Frogwares on the arse though as they've now publicly accused a number of individuals with no proof they were actually involved so may ultimately may have slander/libel cases brought against them.
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Nacon is the third publisher to be accused of the same thing.The first one was Wanadoo (which belonged to Orange and was sold later, when Orange exited the publishing business). The second is Focus and now we have Nacon, the third one. All the companies are french.
Frogwares is based in Ukraine and was founded by... wait for it... drum rolls... french expats. The CEO and the president is one Waël Amr. Estiated number of employees: 80.
It is indeed a french affair. I doubt that any sane publisher will dare to do business with them after this. I mean once or twice it may happen. But three times is already suspicious.
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My idea is to wait when the full true version will be available with all DLC and patches.
I think there is a big chance this game will end in Humble Choice in 2022.
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I think there's a big chance Humble Choice will not last through 2021 but I like your enthusiasm :P
Thanks for the warning on the game. It was on my wishlist. Shame it's another blemish on the French reputation though
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I think Humble Choice has good sales so it will exist for many years :P
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Heh I don't know if it is working that well.
They were hoping to get a lot of devs back with Choice and the promise that it would kill the grey market and they wish they could get rid of the pausing system (just judging by all the bribing and increasing number of confirmations until your sub actually gets paused; as well as the recent discounts but no pause promo).
All in all I think Choice is not doing what they hoped and it won't last as is but in some form or other, yes some kind of sub will exist.
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What a huge mess this is.
EDIT: New information has come out https://frogwares.com/how-nacon-cracked-and-pirated-the-sinking-city/
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I think what made Frogwares bail out and run was the fact Nacon asked for the game sources after they bought a studio who was working on a similar game. That and all the delays in payment, Frogwares probably figured (most likely they were right) that Nacon was trying to steal the game outright.
Unfortunately instead of stalling and using legal avenues available to them, they broke their contract, and so ofc now they're up the creek without the proverbial paddle.
It's pretty silly when you're getting screwed but bolting is the last thing to do.
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They paid 10 millions of $ already, why should they pay more
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My comment was edited a few times so I just to clarify back in 2019 Frogware was owed around €1m in unpaid royalties from Nacon, this is what I was referring to.
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Another side of story:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/750130/view/3058478454630446188
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They're making money off the game right now. They can hardly say "well yeah so we screwed the devs, so what?"
Note that they talk about the "thousands of hours and millions" invested in the marketing (a bit on the dramatization side) but fail to acknowledge any responsibility at all in delays in payment that can be easily documented.
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Fun fact: this game just appeared in my Steam Queue "because it's popular" - probably also because of this mess.
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Yeah I'm sure a lot of people are checking it out because of the noise but most likely also because it's a recent game with a deep discount.
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And a new side of the story...
https://frogwares.com/how-nacon-cracked-and-pirated-the-sinking-city/
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Wow. I thought the game on Steam was at least a previous version that they had pimped up a little but nope they just bought it on Gamesplanet, cracked it and released it on Steam? And now they're trying to play the victim card.
What I don't get is how they are allowed to make a cent off a game which ownership is still in contention in court after several appeals.
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I think such stuff can answer only a lawyer or the court that have all infos.
As Publisher they have theoretical the right to make a cent or more with the game at the platforms/distribution ways that are listed in the contract with Frogwares (as example steam).
Frogwares ended the contract and it is unclear, at the court but without a final decission, if that was correct or not. Till that is decided the contract is still active as far as i understood it.
Nacon tried to get a "useable copy" from Frogwares to get their "right" to monetarize the game they paid $10 Mil. for the development and all other. And Frogwares tried to prevent that because of the ended contract, different problems before and so on.
I don't think that Frogware can block all because they recieved a big bunch of money at the development. Maybe late and always with running behind Nacos that they pay the next part but they clearly recieved ammount X, so of course have the other side a right to get something back and Frogwares tries to prevent that fully.
The court will decide what exactly the "get something back" part mean in this case.
We haven't all infos and see only a part but i assume that Frogwares would not speak so openly about stuff and name specific persons if they would not able to proof it with undisputable evidences or they would risk high fines.
So i assume that all the hacking stuff are true and that all after "the end of the contract" is really bad stuff and the sad thing is that it will hit the game selling in the end.
If they solve it in one year at the court are the game not so great with the graphics as it would be now, the advertising will be gone/much lower as now and so on.
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Yeah I think they probably shouldn't have named names publicly but I get their outrage and like you said, they wouldn't go all out like that if they couldn't back it up
Regardless of what actually happened with the breach of contract, what Nacon did is going way over the line of propriety and that shows that they were not the innocents they are trying to pass themselves off as to start with.
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its carma for Frogwares for crazy steam prices, crazy regional prices and exclusivity for epic store.
i bought Nacon version of game on steam and very happy
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You actually bought the Frogwares version of the game, except it's pirated by Nacon and uploaded on Steam. Frogwares version had Steam achievements and all DLC, so getting this for myself would feel like a downgrade. I'll just wait for this whole legal mumbo jumbo to unravel itself if it ever happens.
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Hmm that's even worse now. Considering that they didn't pay Frogwares for their work on DLC and it was developed after the release, Nacon is effectively stealing content that isn't covered in their original contract with Frogwares.
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why is it a scam tho if they are fighting in court? where is the scam (for now)?
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Right now it is hard to tell because maybe if you buy the game now you will be stuck with this version of the game and will never get steam cloud saves and steam achievements and DLC or maybe your version will get upgraded to the real full game version for free or maybe you will have to pay for the upgrade or maybe you will have to buy the game a second time to get the real full version with everything.
Buying it right now looks like a really really risky move.
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People on discussions say the story DLCs are there, just not cosmetic suit and gun. So besides cloud save, it's almost as good as it can be.
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Paris Court of Appeal = By removing the game Frogwares "had terminated [its] contract in a 'manifestly unlawful' manner."
The court has said the contract must be continued until a decision has been made on whether Nacon breached its agreement, as Frogwares alleges. The developer has been ordered to refrain from any further action that would affect this contract.
It's this part, that I'm more interested in. " The developer has been ordered to refrain from any further action that would affect this contract." Yet they haven't refrained.
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Well, they just told their version of the story on social media. That's not a legal action. They technically didn't interfere with Steam or anything like that.
On the other hand, I'm curious to find out what the court of appeal is going to think of Nacon pirating the game to sell it. Talk about manifestly unlawful.
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https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/750130/view/3058478454633609923
The other news was from Frogwares, but that mysteriously disappeared. https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/750130/view/3058478454630446188
Where they told people not to buy it. Notice the app ID. 750130
In my opinion. That was interference.
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Well I guess that's for the court to decide. Everything is a matter of interpretation with the law but standing near a vending machine saying "that soda is bad for you" is not technically the same as breaking the machine or putting gum in the slot, you know what I mean?
In any case, and I agree they shouldn't have named names, it doesn't justify what Nacon did, pirating the game and selling an illegally obtained version, whether the court said they could sell it or not so they are now both in trouble with the law I guess.
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But you're using the Frogwares video as proof of piracy. Correct?
Did you look at the files yourself?
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I am confused about this. So, the game form developers Frogwares was created, then Nacon stole it from them and released it as their own. Did Frogwares ever release their version of the game? Is/was it possible to buy their version? PC version I mean, because I know that the Frogwares version is available to purchase on Xbox
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Developers Frogwares side:
https://frogwares.com/the-sinking-city-is-being-delisted-heres-why/
https://twitter.com/Frogwares/status/1365385278140133378?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3AFrogwares%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ffrogwares.com%2F
https://frogwares.com/how-nacon-cracked-and-pirated-the-sinking-city/
Publishers Nacon side:
https://corporate.nacongaming.com/en/press/the-sinking-city-stores/
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/750130/view/3058478454630446188
https://corporate.nacongaming.com/en/press/the-sinking-city-steam/
Right now the game has 2 steam app IDs:
Frogwares: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1151760/
Nacon: https://steamcommunity.com/app/750130/
I think that If you have it on your wishlist it is best to remove it and add it to ignore list and wait for the situation to be resolved. The current version you can buy has no Steam cloud saves no Steam achievements no DLC and no updates and patches. It is basically a 1.0 version of the game that was sold on Epic a year ago so for me it is something like a beta version that people on Epic did paid to test out and find all the bugs.
EDIT:
Both the developer and the publisher are fighting in court over it. I don't know who to trust in that case so we will just have to wait and see I guess?
EDIT2:
Added new links to story from both sides as this game lunch starts to look like a train wreck.
EDIT3 (03.03.2021):
The game is now removed from Steam. This looks more and more like a big train wreck.
EDIT4 (03.03.2021):
Added more links. This is getting more and more ridiculous...
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