And no one seems to care about it. ^^
I have to say, I was expecting a significant performance hit. But not of this magnitude...
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You read abour rumors and maybe guesses about the performance impact on the demos they showed at the press conference. We now have actual facts for the first time. Big difference.
RT is not the only reason for the 2080ti. It's the fastest card you can buy. That alone is a good reason for many buyers. Is it overpriced? Sure. But if you want the fastest card, maybe for 4k gaming, and money plays no role - then it's probably still a good buy, even if RT is disappointing.
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Apart from 4K gaming, there is a limited use case scenario for pros, as some professional software suites have announced support for the new tensor cores in the RTX cards. A RTX 2080 Ti is basically a budget Titan V with some very solid compute performance, heck it's a steal at a third of the price.
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You do realize that without the RTX it's still a great card, right? Other than the bad builds that have caused some cards to brick, the performance itself is great. This is better than the 1080TI because at least this one supports something new and interesting.
It's odd to see that people only react to the RTX part of the card and nothing else. They pretend that having an imperfect extra is a bad thing. But fair enough.
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I agree, but that's enthusiast tech for you. It was never meant for the average consumer. This mindset that everyone should get a 80TI card on launch if possible is a ridiculous precedent to begin with. This tech has always been for the 0.5% of consumers.
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It is great, but still overpriced. A gameplay capture video shows that my R9 380X could run BF5 in the 50 fps range on ultra in 1080p. The RTX 2080 Ti can do 150 or so. Thing is, my card cost one-ninth of that card (before miners bought pretty much every single one, making it unobtainable for years), so it may be great, but it has abysmal performance/dollar value: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_value.html
Hence, the question still remains: why would anyone buy this apart from saying they have the most powerful desktop GPU, damn the horrifying price tag? Because at this point, it is either flaunting riches or just dickwaggling. Even Nvidia fans just tell people to get a GTX 1060, maybe 1070 instead.
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I agree, it's overpriced. But that's the enthusiast tier for you. This isn't a tier for you in any way then. You obviously don't want to spend that much on a card. The enthusiast build is just for those that have the money to burn for it, want to burn that money on it and want the best performance possible.
That's all it is.
If you start making comparisons like this, then you're basically saying that "You can get an apartment for 500€ per month, so why would you spend 2000€ per month when the 500€ one is only twice as small. Like, obviously it is, but so many other things come into play.
The whole "enthusiast tiers should be considered by the average consumer" is just the market going a bit loony over time. We've just gone so far in the spectrum that where these 80TIs were always a pipedream, only affordable for those that were rich or those that needed them for work. These cards aren't meant for us, Nvidia knows that. But the point remains, it's ridiculous to compare your cheaper budget card to the newest enthusiast market card. If we actually started comparing, your deal is actually also pretty bad. Instead get a 9800GT for around 0.50€ and you'll get a solid 1-2fps, which is around 0.25€ per frame, instead of your price which is 4x more expensive with 2€ per frame.
So you tell me, was my comparison all of a sudden fair as well?
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well the guy forgot that the game just launched and this technology is stile brand new so with patches and updates , the game might run better
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I won't say it's completely impossible that Dice somehow manages to improve RT performance by 200-300%, but it seems very unlikely (unless their implementation is somehow completely wrong and this is all just a big mistake ^^).
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emmm we gotta wait for shadow of TR and metro to confirm it
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its like FX5000 series with DirectX9 all over again.
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^ This.
(Do people still remember the FX5000 and Dx9?)
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So either this new ray tracing technology is shit, the card is shit, the game is shit, or the implementation of ray tracing in the game is shit. Regardless, "as usual with nvidia stuff" applies in here as well.
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No doubt about that. But if this really turns out to be completely useless, it's still really, really disappointing. When is first gen tech ever completely unusable? And at least based on BF5 it seems to be that way. I just hope the BF5 implementation is just really bad and not representative of what's possible with the RTX cards we have. Because if RT with current hardware makes no sense at all, that's also not a big incentive for developers to implement it in their games.
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I just hope the BF5 implementation is just really bad and not representative of what's possible with the RTX cards we have.
I recall reading that Metro Exodus is targeting 60fps at 1080p with their ray tracing implementation, although theirs is more ambitious with global illumination and ambient occlusion rather than just reflections. It remains to be seen how well that will turn out of course, but I can't shake the feeling that that is rather underwhelming for any RTX card, especially the high end 2080/Ti. I've got to wonder how many 2080 Ti owners would be content to game at a measly 1080p.
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Expected.
I'll gladly wait until the 2nd or 3rd generation of the tech before jumping on board. My Geforce 1060 6GB is doing just fine for 99% of the games I play.
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It is great to know that we can now play the highly scripted and totally linear 3-hour-long campaign and the same 4 online game modes for brand new lootboxes with slightly prettier shadows. Not that anyone will ever notice during gameplay as online players will drop quality to not get lag up the ass and the campaign will just have a ton of explosions and loud noises that mask anything regardless, but hey, at least someone out there can use that 1400-dollar GPU for something.
As long as they are on a fullHD 60 Hertz monitor.
Granted, this is an FPS, so things like "gameplay more complex than banging two sticks together" would be an utterly alien concept for anyone involved, from creators to intended audience. Might as well put 90% of all development resources on pretty shadows.
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True, but a HOG goes for 10-20 dollars at launch and is classified as a casual game. These things cost somewhere between 100-140 dollars for a full package and the single-player portion is barely longer.
(Also, HOGs have conventional puzzles, and some are actually difficult. :P Then again, when they have easy mode with no click penalty, sometimes I do feel like firing up an autoclick script. =))
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It is great to know that we can now play the highly scripted and totally linear 3-hour-long campaign and the same 4 online game modes for brand new lootboxes with slightly prettier shadows.
Not even that. It's just reflections. xD
Tomb raider will have raytraced shadows, though.
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I never understood why graphics card manufacturers need to keep up with the latest games. It should be the other way around and the game designers make games that work without having to spend money every couple of years to get the newest card or update drivers every time a new game comes out.
My old 750 Ti plays even the newest games just fine. Some of them I have to play on low settings but the games are still playable. I don't care about the detail of grass blowing in the wind or water reflections or shadows if they have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. Seems to me lately game designers are more interested in making their games look pretty but many of these pretty games still are crappy to play or redundant.
How many versions of Battlefield need to be made? It's just the same game every time but with improved graphics. I still play BFBC2 and Battlefield 3. No need for a $1000 card and the kills and deaths feel just the same except I still have money in my wallet.
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So it's just as bad as we feared.
"Ray Tracing is the greatest advancement ever, and for only $1300 you too can experience it on your 1080p monitor!"
"What's that? You wanted to use Ray Tracing on your 4K monitor, which was the whole reason you purchased the ridiculously expensive 2080Ti in the first place? Well, it can't do that. But it can provide you with a fleeting sense of warmth!"
It reminds me of when tessellation first came out, and no one could actually run it at decent frame rates.
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It reminds me of when tessellation first came out, and no one could actually run it at decent frame rates.
And yet we all can now, but it had to start somewhere. Just because something runs poorly at the moment doesn't exclude it from being a great advancement (and in this case, it doesn't even mean it will run poorly in every game).
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That's true, and I have nothing against the Ray Tracing tech - merely against Nvidia's marketing. They were pushing the RTX series on the strengths of Ray Tracing and being 4K capable, and as we see here the two are mutually exclusive (and both Ray Tracing and 4K capable requires some settings compromises for the 2070).
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Except when you have to put specialized RT cores in your GPU, significantly bumping its production cost and price to the point of people not buying it because they don't want to spend that crazy money for getting 50% less performance compared to everybody else.
Which in turn will discourage nvidia from going this route the moment they notice how their wallet starts shrinking from crazy amount of angry customers that didn't get what nvidia has advertised.
From scientifical view I highly cheer for nvidia and pushing RT forward. Logically though, only absolute madman would be happy to spend that huge amount of money for technology that doesn't only kill performance drastically, but doesn't offer significant advantages in the first place. RT looks amazing on trailers and other carefully-designed promos where it can shine, it's a very secondary factor in video games where you do not even notice graphical details after a longer while and instead rely on your imagination filling details, so you can get better focus at the action.
In other words, assuming nvidia won't back out and has enough of funds to recover, see you in another 2-3 years when 1080p RT becomes standard.
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Welcome to the first generation of something new in technology ^^ It'll take at least a year until 1080p ray-tracing becomes a smooth experience and at least another generation of cards for anything above that.
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had the chance to play the upcomming metro and BF-V with RTX on a press event at the gamescom and yeah... I thought back then "what a joke but prob it's just beta..." guess it was not beta...
It would be different, if they would have not named the cards "rtx" and claimed that rtx is the reason to buy this cards (they are not bad but the pricetag...)
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I just finished read one article that says with last Windows 10 update, AMD users can enable RTX with their Vega GPU. And the results are 1440p 60FPS... Not freaking bad results, as it's a non RTX supported GPU, no drivers.
Also, i think the new nvidia GPU series are really bad prices, actually have a 1060 and if i have to upgrade it soon i won't get a new wone, preffer get 1080Ti for 500€ than a new one less powerful for more money, or expend a freakign 1300€ on the best graphic card for consumers.
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Good luck getting a 1080TI for 500 as most of those cards have been sold out and there are no other copies left.
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There's several on eBay in that price range. You have to read the fine print though because many are used.
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Maybe i didnt write it clear enough, The production of the 1080TI is over and those are the last stocks. When they are all bought your only option is either amd or used if you dont want to spend a fortune for those rtx cards. Of course from the moment nvidia announced the new cards the sales of 1080TI have been increased and as time passes and benchmarks are being released the situation is only getting worse.
So if you plan to buy a 1080TI do it fast as you dont know for how long those stocks will last.
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I just finished read one article that says with last Windows 10 update, AMD users can enable RTX with their Vega GPU. And the results are 1440p 60FPS... Not freaking bad results, as it's a non RTX supported GPU, no drivers.
I'm pretty sure you don't get the RT effects in the game then, as the hardware is missing. So this performance is exactly the same as with DXR disabled.
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Was the DirectX RayTracing, you don't get the 100% RTX, but it's quite similar with better performance.
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No, it's not similar. DXR is not enabled, as expected. The necessary hardware is simply not there. Even if it were possible somewhow, you'd probably get 1 fps or less.
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At least the people that are overpaying for the tech instead of waiting until next gen ;)
RTX will be sweet when they figure it out, but spending 1200 bucks for 60FPS if you are lucky is probably one of the worst 'upgrades' I can imagine.
It's not like SSD upgrade tech, this is just all gimmick atm.
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That's a silly comment. And there is more to the new cards than just DXR. Even without DXR it still makes a lot of sense for many people to go for the new cards.
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Not for $800+ for 2080 and $1200+ for 2080ti it doesnt make much sense when talking about performance per dollar.
You can get a 1080 for $400. A 2080 is not twice as powerful but it costs twice as much. I'm not sure how that makes sense, with or without the usage of RTX.
The way these cards are priced you would think the 3080Ti will cost $2000+ lol
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I got a good deal on mine, was $420 after rebate brand new about 1 month ago
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https://hintaseuranta.fi/haku/gtx+1080
Finland ... i just love it
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Ouch, sorry my dude, hope prices come down for you soon
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I agree that the RTX cards are overpriced compared to the last gen, if really DXR is the failure it seems to be based on BF5. But if you want more performance than a 1080ti, the 2080ti still makes sense for you. It might not be cost effective, but high-end hardware never is. You can make the same argument for the 1080ti compared to the 1080. The 1080 gives you more fps per dollar. The 1070 even more. The 1060 is even more cost effective, and so on. If you are going for the perfect cost/performance ratio, no matter how much actual performance you get in the end, you probably need to stay on integrated graphics. ^^ Anyway, the 2080ti is useful, even if expensive, for quite a few people. If you want to game at 4k or other high resolutions, this card is the way to go.
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Yea, I agree on that. Ultimately the cost to performance ratio seems to put the 1060 on top for 1080p gaming, but I'm still not entirely certain the best bang for your buck in 4k.
I guess I'm just kinda bitter at Nvidea's price gouging us all. First the crypto zombies raise prices, whatever supply demand sure we get it- but then we find out that Nvidea has millions of 10 series in stock but isn't dropping price but instead trying to trickle them out slowly to keep prices high.
And then, they come out with the 20 series at 150% MSRP markup on the previous gen.
It just feels anti-consumer so I guess I am holding a grudge. I would gladly go back to AMD if they came up with a viable alternative but until they do I think Nvidea is going to keep doing this.
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Yea, I agree on that. Ultimately the cost to performance ratio seems to put the 1060 on top for 1080p gaming
Or the RX480/580, which have equal performance and are a bit cheaper.
but I'm still not entirely certain the best bang for your buck in 4k.
If you want 4k@60fps on ultra settings, the 1080ti is too weak in many cases. So the 2080ti is really the only option right now. Or you reduce a few settings, which usually doesn't have a big impact on visuals and makes the 1080ti viable. I personally can say that my 1080 (non-ti) already has a hard time with ultra settings at 3440*1440 in some games. 100fps seems impossible in some newer games, unless I reduce settings. I doubt I would be happy with this card on 4k. ;)
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Or the RX480/580, which have equal performance and are a bit cheaper.
You're right, the only thing I don't like about the AMD card is the power usage but they are both fairly even I think.
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Most people, myself included are actually expecting some kind of bump. And it even makes sense, we've had tons of examples previously; DX9 and Crysis' tesselation comes to mind. The main issue with this whole kerfuffle is due to the almost double price increase, and in some regions, 3/4x price increase.
This is what happens when Vega launched with a meh reception, and rumors going around are saying that Navi isn't even planned to compete in the high end tier so we're fucked there. AMD's graphics division really needs to take a page out of their processor's counterpart. Ryzen's got Intel panic releasing like crazy what with the 9900K ect trying to get back their lost market share.
P/s -
And no one seems to care about it. ^^
I posted the link in the original RTX thread so I care for it at least. :P
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I didn't read the 3080 was an AMD card and got really confused
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Let's see how this goes. We had similar rumours before. But so far AMD never had same performance for half price. My guess is that they will position themselves a bit under the 2070, but definitely not half (as much as I would love to see that).
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Still, is good to finally see some competition from the red team to hopefully drive down prices but yea, we'll see.
I really like seeing the low TDP though, that is encouraging.
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Revisiting Battlefield V Ray Tracing Performance: https://www.techspot.com/review/1759-ray-tracing-benchmarks-vol-2
Nvidia and DICE have been working together to improve RT performance, and there is an improvement (mostly at ultra) but Tray Racing is still a massive performance hog.
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I'm not really surprised, it is an awesome feature. I am hoping in another generation though it will be more perfected, no need for me to jump on the bandwagon just yet as I am really happy with my 1080.
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Ouch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpZmH0_1gWQ
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