You would think that, but ironically, more then a few "safe space" or "inclusive" groups look down on straight/heterosexual/white/w.e individuals from joining.
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I guess, it's probably because lgbt+ people have so little safe spaces. And cis-gendered, heterosexual invdividuals usually just kind of get the freedom to go wherever they want. Lgbt+ people don't have that freedom. So it's like, them almost just exercising their freedom to just go wherever they want, even if it's a safe space for certain people.
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Then all you do in the end is make people less inclusive and focus on their perspective groups. Maybe I just dont "get it" since I feel and see everyone as a person.
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Of course, I myself consider myself pretty straight, it's more about the attitude - we allow no form of hate speech or anything of that sort. But anyone is welcome to join :)!
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wait does this site allow racism & hatespeech ? O.o
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You are on fire, sir/madam!
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I don't get it... whats this whole "i caught you!" thing ? I've been seeing it for days
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Catch Me If You Can Event, and not for days, only a bit more than 24 hours so far. ;)
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Oh...Ha :D I guess it hasn't been for days LOL. Guess it's hunting season huh?
Given that I already own Valkyrie Chronicles I will not participate, the event sounds like fun though!
Thanks for enlightening me about all this !! I was so... so very confused...!
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You can still enter for Payday 2 though. ^^
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I'd like to leave more room for people who don't own both games, thank you though!
Maybe if there's still some room in the last few days I'll try to make my way in the top 20!
Also, you don't have to reply to this, people are gonna go crazy from going to your posts to read the "can't be claimed" thing :P Thanks man :D
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You fail to realize that making people go crazy is one of my favorite pastimes.
Muhahahahah.
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I hate how they handle bought packages when you already own one or more titles in the package.
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Good luck with the group. I won't join because I doubt I would be very active (so it would end up being just another group in the list), but I hope your group does well.
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Thank you, it means a lot to have support like this :)
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Nice to see the explicit mention of inclusion beyond the LGBTQ acronym, being asexual myself :) Joined!
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As someone on the asexual spectrum, it's hard to feel like I "fit in" sometimes, even in groups that are LGBTQ friendly. So seeing more asexuals join this group feels great :)!
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I'm tempted to join, but then again I wouldn't be very active, 'cause there is nothing I'd like to talk about in this regard. Whatever I do in the end, good luck with your group :)
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OMG! That is funny!. Actually laughing out loud here. Thank you Sir/Madam/Frying Pan
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Actually, yes. You don't have to be an active knight of social justice to be a decent human being :D.
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Rofl... this is a joke, right? O.o
Edit: Ok, I guess it's not a joke. Now I have to figure out what sexuality and safe spaces have to do with playing games.
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Nothing, but it's nice to have people around you who you know will understand you and won't judge you. Isn't that kind of the point of all groups?
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I very much doubt that. Are you talking about Steam groups or just groups in general?
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Actually I would disagree with your reply "nothing":
Among other considerations, gaming is a space leaning way too heavily towards sexism, this is especially true in some areas, so taking a position towards inclusivity already matters, and providing minorities with a safe space where they do not have to put up with immature comments like that you're replying to, is a noble intent. Also gaming do seem to play a special role for those same minorities to favor expression and overcoming the problems they face in their everyday life.
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In addition to what D0minus said, some people like to play games that include characters they can identify with when it comes to their sexuality or gender identity, and groups like these are a good way to discover those games.
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Yeah ok, I guess if you're really discriminatory about stuff like gender, race or sexuality this group could be useful. I still don't get what safe space is all about though.
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Maybe because people that are not like the norm get strange looks or even beat ups? I am straight myself but I can see where it is coming from.
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Are you suggesting people are getting beat up on the internet?
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No. But safe space isnt internet exclusive. But on the internet is a lot of hate too. In a safe space you can talk with the people about stuff without getting insulted by some people mainly because most of them share the same problems/experiences etc.
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I really doubt there's a lot of hate on the internet. A lot of stupid and rude people, sure. But really hateful people, doubt it.
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Did you just join the internet yesterday or something? FFS.
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You really never heard anything about people commiting suicide because of internet bullies etc?
Either you don't read much news in the last decade or you are already in a safe space yet don't realize it.
And no, that's not meant to be some kind of insult etc.
Ah, nvm. Just read some of your later comments.
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In this case, a safe space is a place where you know you don't have to fear you're going to be insulted or otherwise hurt because of who you are. Where you can be openly yourself without "putting on a mask" and trust others to accept you for who you are. "Minorities" have to create these spaces for themselves, and not everyone has a group of friends to play games with, so these online groups are a great way to find like-minded people.
Example, as someone else already said, hearing hateful exclamations against certain minority groups is pretty much guaranteed when you play online multiplayer games. Maybe you can laugh it off for a while or just silently take it and try to keep enjoying the game, but if it keeps happening and you're part of that minority group, it's a miserable feeling, honestly.
(Especially if you encounter discrimination in real life every day as well - gaming can be a form of escapism, after all. No one wants to be made to feel miserable while trying to enjoy something.)
Safe spaces aren't about "running and hiding" from that, but it's comforting to have a place to escape to where you just know you won't encounter assholes like that. Where you can feel safe for a while. Sometimes, I just don't feel like being insulted, or even just taking the chance that it could happen. So I try to surround myself with people I know won't be hurtful or insulting towards me, like this group.
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Even going out of your comfort zone is comforting for the people who like to do that.
You are also seeking comfort because everyone wants to feel good.
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Most likely people are getting insulted because they don't live up to the expectations of others regarding their performance in the game, not because who they are. If someone are calling me gay, a dick or pussy it's not because I am those thing, it's to insult me. Honestly, how many do you think even know the gender, sexuality etc of random people they play with?
Wouldn't just not telling random people on the internet about your gender, sexuality, or other things unrelated to gaming solve these problems, or is it rude people in general we're trying to create a safe space from? If so, what does it have to do with gender and all the other stuff mentioned?
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I think you're missing the point.
Why is "gay" an insult? Usually, when you are trying to insult someone, you use something negative...
I think these folks are just looking for some place where they can meet people to play online games with that aren't so emotionally and educationally stunted that they think sexual orientation or race are negative things to be insulted about.
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Not really, when you try to insult someone you use whatever you think will make that person upset. Generally it probably works pretty well although it would fail miserably on me. I think we may just have differing opinions on what constitutes hate.
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Firstly, I don't understand why I should let anyone insult me over anything at all, much less my performance in a video game.
Secondly, it is my opinion that the term gay shouldn't be used as an insult. As I see that we have different opinions and you wouldn't understand my reasoning, I won't take the time to explain why at this point.
(Not to mention that using "gay" as an insult is one of the more harmless examples, and I was thinking of more extreme homophobic and racist slurs.)
Wouldn't just not telling random people on the internet about your gender [...]
So by that standpoint, no one should be open about who they are. Whether male, female, straight, gay, Christian, black, white, Muslim, disabled, or "other things unrelated to gaming"... Everyone would be faceless and unapproachable on the internet. You're saying that the cause of the problem are the people who are being discriminated against, simply by not lying about who they are - and they're the ones who could solve these problems if they just stopped being honest, and started hiding.
What that statement really means is "everyone can be open about who they are on the internet, UNLESS they're part of a minority group because then it's really their own fault if they get attacked".
Another example: even just by participating in public voice chats during online gaming when you're a woman, you risk getting rape threats. This has happened countless times to me and pretty much all of my female friends who play online - but it's really our fault for having female sounding voices and speaking in a public space, I guess.
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I never said that that you should let anyone insult you. I just explained what I think the reason behind the insults are. It probably wont matter if you explained, I'm probably too dense. But just out of curiosity what terms would be acceptable as insults in your opinion?
I've not actually taken a stance on what you should or should not do regarding informing random people about things unrelated to gaming. It just seems like an easier solution if you think that there would be a chance of negative feedback on that information. You seem to be of the opinion that by not stating these facts about themselves people are lying and hiding, and the solution is safe spaces? To me that seems more restricted.
Also, f*** off with that "what that statement really means..." I'm not about to defend some strawman. I really don't mind if you prefer safe spaces over not telling random people of your gender or sexual orientation I just don't understand why.
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Yep, it's interesting to see what is out there, given that it's not a common theme in games. (As for 'safe space', I think it just means a place you can discuss a theme and play some games without someone asking 'but why do people want to talk about that???')
On which note, time to play some games.
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Ok, the way I'm reading this is that a safe space, in this case, is a place where people with hangups regarding gender, sexuality and all of the above mentioned stuff can discuss their hangups all they want without getting weird looks. Sounds good.
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The opposite, actually. It's people with the hangups that are the problem.
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So if you are a minority and want to discuss specific things that most people don't care to discuss, the ones that don't care for the discussion are a problem?
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I wonder if you're remotely aware of how smug you sound with your wording. It looks like you're just here to milk frustration with myopic twisting of words, but I'll give you a little more benefit of the doubt.
Yes, yes they are a problem if they're a constant source of hostility and belittlement when they so much as overhear a vague mention of the subject. The internet (or game servers) are like public transport. All the passengers are there for a common reason, but that doesn't mean all people on a bus are automatically in the same conversation. Imagine you're trying to have a conversation with a buddy you're sat next to about a TV show, and some random asshat on the bus butts into the conversation and starts doing their best to insult and offend you because they dislike the TV show you're discussing. That's pretty much what this situation is on game servers, only it's not just some rare crazy individual that is doing the childish chimpout routine but a sizeable portion of any active community. I suggest you spend some time in the more twitch-oriented PvP games to get some sense of scope for how things work.
Just like public transport, there is no expectation of real privacy and chatter can be overheard, but that doesn't mean random passengers should be excused by default when they're the ones picking fights with strangers over nothing. In this situation, it sounds like you're trying to imply that the faulty party are the passengers who were minding their own business, and almost as if you're suggesting it's ridiculous to hold the aggressive party in a negative light.
Safe spaces aren't about people with hangups 'avoiding weird looks' from 'people who just dont want to talk about it', it's an opposite. Safe spaces are about giving people a place where they can dare to talk about things without strangers butting in and chimping out over it. It's not even the mention of specific subjects that trigger the idiots, but the mere mention of a disfavored group. Merely mentioning that someone is transgender can be like chumming the waters, instantly bringing sharks who only want to tear shit to pieces.
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Yes because whenever someone doesn't view the world as you it's myopic? It rather sounds like you're describing something other than what I am describing. I don't really have any objections about the situations you are giving as examples but I don't really se how they are an analogy to what's happening on a game server. I think that if you describe a real situation we'll mostly be in agreement. My guess is that the only thing we would disagree on is exactly how prevalent this abuse or hate are.
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No, it's myopic when you deliberately word things to twist them back on someone giving you the benefit of the doubt , and expect it not to be taken badly. What, are you going to try suggesting the previous remarks weren't deliberately facetious? This aught to be good.
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That's rather an matter of opinion and I doubt I'll be able to change yours at this point. From my point of view you should be able to follow the discussion from the first comment I responded to and not come to your conclusion. But, since you've been trying to educate me on the state of things our entire conversation I guess not.
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I've rarely played an online multiplayer game where the players didn't exhibit some degree of hateful language or abusive treatment towards a minority group, whether that be based on religion, race, sexuality, nationality, or something else.
It's not the targeted minorities who are creating these hostile environments, but they and their allies can try to create safe spaces through groups like this.
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I've never played an online multiplayer game where someone didn't act like an ass regardless gender, sexuality, race etc. If some are acting like an ass should we run and hide in a safe space? How is that making anything better?
Edit: How exactly is this safe space supposed to work? I can't imagine how it will make anything outside the group different for anyone. Unless we're supposed to limit our interactions to this specific group but that kind of falls on its own absurdity.
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Do you have any suggestions that don't include "toughening up" or "playing with friends" (which is what groups like this is for I'd expect)? Any suggestions that don't revolve around everyone bending over backwards to accommodate the the jackass because jackass mentality is that everyone else needs to change?
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Uhm, say what? Can you try to specify the exact problem you're asking me to solve. I've not made any suggestions and don't know what you're talking about.
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I'm going to move ahead with the assumption that English isn't your first language (based on the country displayed on your Steam profile) and explain what I meant without my passive aggressiveness.
The general response by ignorant people to a woman or someone from a minority group complaining about abusive behavior online (either in a game or a forum) is to "grow thicker skin because that's just how gamers / the internet is" or "find a group to play with / play with friends". Therefore the quote below made me question what you think we should do since it directly conflicted with the usual "find friends to play with" argument, which is what the OP is indirectly addressing by creating a friendly group.
If some are acting like an ass should we run and hide in a safe space? How is that making anything better?
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I think I understand your English perfectly well, you're just not very good at expressing yourself unambiguously with your passive aggressiveness and all. That coupled with the fact that you're putting words in my mouth made me question the reason behind your whole post. Why are you aggressive at all?
I wonder what the general response, to someone that's not a woman or from a minority group, regarding online abusive behavior are. My guess that it is the same and that you don't really care. Regarding the merits of those advice I'd say they are sound. If you, for some reason can't handle the behavior of others and are not able to change everyone according to your expectations, which is rarely the case, you surround yourself with people with acceptable behavior.
Since you questioned what I think "we" should do. I believe it's generally more productive to point out fallacies and pose counter arguments than to run away to a safe space but obviously that's not an option in every case. There is nothing conflicting, just different people and different situations.
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with the fact that you're putting words in my mouth
Why is this claim so often used. Perhaps if we all say exactly what we mean to say the first time nothing would be left to "misinterpretation". I also apologize if I came to the wrong conclusion after reading through some of your other responses.
Regarding the merits of those advice I'd say they are sound.
Then what was the point of your OP?
I wonder what the general response, to someone that's not a woman or from a minority group, regarding online abusive behavior are. My guess that it is the same and that you don't really care.
Ah, now we get to it.
change everyone according to your expectations
That argument can be applied to both sides, can't it. Apologists expect everyone to adapt and critics expect individuals to have self control.
I believe it's generally more productive to point out fallacies and pose counter arguments than to run away to a safe space but obviously that's not an option in every case.
Now clearly you read my reply to Sisal so you must have read the part where I said "while voicing our displeasure to ignorant ears". In general it is more productive, yes, however a lot of times people are just too ignorant to see any argument from a different angle.
I'm going to move ahead with the assumption that English isn't your first language
In case you took that the wrong way, it wasn't meant as an elitist insult. I have a Swedish friend and sometimes when we talk there are words which are misunderstood or have no clear equivalent. I only went to your profile after reading through some of your other replies and noticed what seemed to be a lack of understanding of the comments made in response to yours, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're just naive to the problem and not a troll. Which is why I tried to explain my OP in a calmer fashion.
Furthermore, I was asking what you think "we" should do at the start of my OP.
Do you have any suggestions [...]
However, this discussion is now moot following Uroboros' detailed response which should coherently explain the issue.
and have your mood and patience whittled* down
I have little patience for individuals who seemingly remain ignorant to other aspects of an argument even after they're been presented. This is why I'm passive aggressive at times, and while I do my best not to resort to petty personal insults, my impatience does become more and more apparent.
I should avoid discussions like these. I often get myself into situations where both parties seemingly lose patience with each other.
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I wonder what the general response, to someone that's not a woman or from a minority group, regarding online abusive behavior are. My guess that it is the same and that you don't really care.
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Certain groups get targeted far more aggressively than others. I'm sure you've noticed the dumb shit that people fling around when a young-sounding player or a woman gets on the mic in a PvP game. If someone accidentally lets slip about their sexuality or gender identity or whatever, it's like painting a massive target on themselves and being immediately marked for an airstrike.
That might just sound like "It's just more of the same", but there is a difference between comically over-reaching impersonal generic taunts, and personal barbs repeated ad-nauseum even by teammates as a default. If normal trolling were like TV commercials, then specific group-targetted trolling is like pop-up advert spam with music. At least in the case of generic trolling, you have the assurance that you're "normal" and "accepted" in society, but western culture at large still has some pretty shitty pockets of prejudice, and it can echo some real shitty things you'd rather not deal with all the time.
Think of it this way : If you were an 11 years old girl and wanted to play CS:GO, the 'normal' trolling would be part of the usual, but getting a constant stream of shit from even your own teammates the very second you use a basic feature of the game (voice comms) then it would get old fast.
It's not "just trolling" it's "just endless, personal trolling". It doesn't sound like much, but like the commercial comparison, any unimportant and small frustration can eventually feel like pulling teeth if it repeats consistently enough.
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It's not the targeted minorities who are creating these hostile environments, but they and their allies can try to create safe spaces through groups like this.
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Finding people of a like mind as you is a huge thing even in playing games.
For example, I hate playing with people who think it's okay to rage and trash talk in multiplayer games; therefore, I have a group of friends who are like minded as me and I play full 5-man team with them exclusively. Same principle here with this group. They are simply finding people who think alike. For example. they will probably find people in this group who won't resort to homophobic slurs while playing games together (as is too often the case in multiplayer games).
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Well, given that a online communities are rife with trolls (and a majority of which seem to be the classless edgy tryhard kind), having a group of gamers that have walked a mile in certain shoes can be reassuring. Especially if you're into PvP oriented games where every other person is comically desperate for any excuse to try be offensive as possible. Being part of a group that takes certain lowest-form trolling seriously would be a godsend in some cases.
See, what most people overlook is that while trolling in general is expected in online communities (smacktalk is part of the scene, right?), it probably gets crazy tedious when basic identity stuff paints a huge target on you. It's not like they want to go around randomly bringing up their junk / sexuality in the servers, but I suppose it's nice not to worry about accidentally letting something slip and causing a shit-eating tirade from half the server populace, y'know? I mean jesus, you've seen what happens if a younger player or a woman uses voice comms, right? Now imagine it's a constant slow-burning barrage, every game, nearly every server, and then half the places on the internet. Shit would go from mildly annoying to 'jesus christ stop talking already' grade pretty quick.
Sure you can't control everything in every game, but at least if you can guarantee the group you're pre-teaming with isn't totally made up of tools, you're off to a good start. :P
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But are they really, rife with trolls that is? I also struggle with how someone accidentally would let something slip as you put it. And no, I've not seen what happens with young people or women on voice com. At least not as you are making it out. I've seen people drooling over women and being borderline creepy trying to help them and giving them stuff etc, but probably not the stuff you're referring to. But then again it may have sorted it self out with the way I choose to interact with people, or not :)
I agree, pre-teaming with a, hopefully decent bunch are probably a great thing. I was, and still am, a bit surprised about the focus on things seemingly unrelated to gaming.
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In PVP gaming they certainly are. Some games actually fail to retain players for long due to the communities being particularly vile (All Points Bulletin is a fine example, which is sad because the game itself was/is pretty solid). I can't off the top of my head remember the last PvP match on anything that didn't involve at least one person going off on an undignified tirade of sorts. At least, not one that had the ability to type/talk. As for women and children, I find that they get the book thrown at them. Especially kids. I mean, consider if you got the whole SJW "neckbeard fedora" routine thrown at you most times you talked on voicechat? It would be laughable at first, but eventually the repetition and shit-eating attitudes would grate on you. Extended exposure can wear at people, especially when there are elements of actual genuine hatred or judgement mixed in around the non-genuine trolls.
Yeah, I suppose it's a bit far fetched to accidentally let slip something about your orientation, but I guess after you've been burned a few times it can feel like a timebomb waiting to go off. Being able to talk about certain things, or not having to lie if some random PUG asks your gender? It's just one less thing to be paranoid about. Again I think it's a matter of cumulative frustration. Hell even if the online communities weren't that bad, after you get burned a few times IRL by prejudice I think that might be enough to make you a bit paranoid. People often say "they're just words, they can't hurt you" but at the end of the day even words can have a profound effect if they finally break through to you. People play games to have a good time, and even if trolling is part of it, beyond a certain point it can majorly ruin your mood. Consistent enough, and it's less about one troll being an ass, but more a sense of being unwelcome in a whole community.
Safe spaces are rarely an absolute necessity, but they can be a great help for people's peace of mind. That space to chat openly without worry means they always have somewhere to vent if they run into a particularly sour batch of trolls, without worry of more coming out of the woodwork to pile on the bullshit, y'know? No matter how thick your skin, all people have limits.
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I guess I just don't mix with the "right" crowds or I'm just experiencing things differently, or handling stuff differently before they get out of hand. This thing with women and children though. I still have a feeling that it's not as much that they are women or children but rather they don't live up to the expectations. I've had plenty of books thrown at me but it's kind of understandable since I generally suck at games, at least the twitchy kind. I'm going ot google that neckbeard fedora thing sometime, just not now, getting up to work in 3h. This thread is fascinating to me...
I understand that it's probably a accumulating effect at work but the solution. Well, to me, it almost seems counter productive to stop interacting outside the safe space. I feel that generally if you tell people that you care about and care about you that something, not unreasonable, is making you uncomfortable they will actually change their behavior. There are of course people that don't care one bit about you but then why should you care about what they say or do?
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This thing with women and children though. I still have a feeling that it's not as much that they are women or children but rather they don't live up to the expectations.
Broaden your perspective if you care to.
http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/11/3/9660094/smite-sexism-and-the-soul-of-esports
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I just took the liberty of checking your steam account, and yeah I would say this is a matter of not having ventured much into PvP centric (or competitive / twitch PvP) games. The attitude shift is pretty severe.
It's really a matter of immediate voice comms mocking the moment a young voice is heard. Nothing to do with actual game performance, though if someone with such a target painted on them doesn't perform great and act humbly at the same time, it only escalates. I've actually had teams in various games stop focusing on the match itself to instead make the trolling a priority. I find that women don't get the same degree of hostility even if they get the similar degree of unwarranted attention. The only time I ever get something remotely similar is when someone obsesses over me being a brit and liking my accent, and that's not too often but enough to grate while trying to focus on playing.
There is a difference between a 'classy' troll that is looking to get a rise out of you for fun, but without actually hurting or offending stuff badly, and 'classless' trolls that will literally scrape the bottom of every barrel in an effort to get any response at all. It's a whole spectrum ranging from just being sarcastic/mischievous nice people all the way down to genuinely prejudiced immature morons. Saying "I care about that and it's making me uncomfortable" will almost never net you a positive response from a troll, and if anything only serves to highlight an opportune subject to attack harder. The average gaming community troll isn't there for good-natured ribbing, they're there to break people down as much as they can in an effort to feel elevated. It's pretty sad really, but it's gone on for so long that it's actually become a norm in the digital side of 'gaming culture'. I say 'gaming culture' like I would say 'prison culture' or 'gun culture', heh. :P
As for interacting solely within a safe space? I don't think the group is there as a means to prevent all other contact, but rather as a sort of buffer to at least make sure they've got a decent place to vent in. As for not caring? It's not that simple. Consistent exposure to negative feedback will almost always break through whatever defense you put up, unless you take measures to mitigate them. In competitive or twitch PvP, communication with teammates is often a necessary part of the play. The only reliable way to remove that negative is to amputate a major element of what is also enjoyable. It's akin to saying "If you don't like the music, turn off the speakers" while overlooking the disadvantage of having no game audio. This is before you even consider that even people with thick skins all have buttons that can be pressed, and if you have repeating issues or shitty experiences IRL.then they provide some pretty big buttons. An easier example to run with here is if you're stuck in a job with a horrible sexist boss, and your home-life has a few recurring sexist jabs floating around. Nothing you can't handle, but they're still things that piss you off and grit your teeth occasionally. Now let's say you've got a few games that you adore, but there are far louder and more obnoxious mirrors of your RL issues constantly being thrown in your face there too. The options are to either 'amputate' the element of the game that is pissing you off, leaving you at a disadvantage and a stunted game experience... or you do your best to deal with it, and have your mood and patience wittled down.
Groups like these are a compromise. You can't totally control a server population nor can you moderate the worst elements of a server unless you're an admin, so the next best thing is to join it with good people, and maybe you'll dilute the poison if there happens to be any. You can't even rely on votekicks because apathy is a major element too. Unless something is directly annoying someone, they'll usually vote randomly or ignore such a vote call. Hell even when there have been blatant cheaters ruining the whole server with a 100-headshot snapshooting chain, the players aren't always intelligent enough to even press the button on the votekick prompt. :P
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Just wanted to say that I appreciate the coherent way you formulate your opinions and viewpoints which is something I can't say for myself in the feverish state I am at the moment. Getting back to you with an appropriate response after I've had some nourishment maybe slept a while.
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Ok, it turns out that I don't really have anything to add. I just once again want to say that I enjoy reading more than a one liner or sarcastic gif once in a while :)
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I really don't understand what you are getting at with your posts in this thread. I mean besides the obvious reason: picking a fight.
I looked at your groups and noticed that you are a member of Let's Be Gaymers Together and they do seem rather similar, especially the safe space part. After joining them, did you call their group a joke or question their reason for having the group? If not, why does a similar new group deserve it then?
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It's strange that when I don't categorically agree with what everyone is saying you think I'm trying to pick a fight. If I was trying to pick a fight it would indeed be obvious.
I'm also getting tired of all the strawman arguments. I've not called any group a joke or questioned their reason in the sense that is shouldn't be allowed. I'm simply baffled at the concept of safe spaces and honestly thought it was a joke like in that South Park episode. Safe spaces feels like such a counter productive concept to me.
I've yet to see anyone pointing out anything I've done wrong. It's just the way I'm saying thing that doesn't sound right and then I must be say this and that. I've been told about the shark like behavior of people on the internet and how it's partially the reason why people need safe spaces, but the only shark like behavior I've seen in this thread are from the people turning up seemingly overjoyed to have some bigots to add to their blacklist.
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Your posts here do give a certain impression. But after I noticed you being a member of a very similar group, it somewhat reinforced that impression. I have absolutely no idea why you joined that group, but given that you did, groups like this shouldn't have been anything new then. Yet right off the bat you come in to the discussion with "Rofl... this is a joke, right?".
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I'm sorry if I sound cranky but this doesn't really put any new information on the table. Do you have a concrete question for me?
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I have never heard of 'asexual' people. Pretty interesting, I didn't know they exist. I joined of course as someone fundamentally opposed to any kind of social discrimination...
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Cheers for setting this up. Good to see a curation list growing.
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Tumblr was mistake. You should have listened.
(edit) To add, back in the days I believed that whole point of LGBT+rest of alphabet movement was that general response to "Hey, my name is Bob and I suck dick" will be "So what?". What I see now is expectation of respectful nods, applause and patting on shoulders.
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Matter of perception. You notice people who act like that, and then you apply it to the rest. And once you've got the mindset that "this is how it is", you start noticing even minor things that really don't relate to it but can be interpreted this way and use that to reinforce your belief, while the people who don't do anything that could fit in with this view, well, you don't notice them at all.
It's really the same mechanism that causes racism, or that causes people to think that everyone who listens to punk-rock are hooligans and so on.
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that everyone who listens to punk-rock are hooligans and so on. Hey I resent that! I was totally a hooligan when I identified heavily with punk rock. But in the best tradition of the Antifa
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That was rather rhetorical question, I haven't intended to state it as some sort of fact.
I mean, what is point of fighting for equal rights when in the end you willingly exclude yourself out of general public. The state of "indifference" seems like better end goal, in sense where LGBT+ safe space would be seen pointless, as any other form of segregated space based on gender/race/sexual preferences etc.
Oh well, guess I'm not inclusive correctly, I just wish I could see my blacklist spree.
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You seem to have the belief that equal rights has been achieved and individuals aren't still harassed for being different. If equal rights were achieved and individuals weren't being harassed for being different we wouldn't need "safe spaces".
At this point I believe you're either trolling or ignorant to the issue. Neither of which I have much patience for tonight.
That was rather rhetorical question, I haven't intended to state it as some sort of fact.
Eh?
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You seem to have the belief that equal rights has been achieved and individuals aren't still harassed for being different. If equal rights were achieved and individuals weren't being harassed for being different we wouldn't need "safe spaces".
I've never stated that, of course there are people who are harassed. The idea of backing down to some safe space, isn't something I'm sympathetic to. The very idea that you need safe space on Steam seems exaggerated, I haven't seen any game community where harassment was accepted or endorsed behaviour. Lets all play together and exclude harassers along the way.
At this point I believe you're either trolling or ignorant to the issue. Neither of which I have much patience for tonight.
Is that respectful "fuck you, sir"? It's hard to decipher with all that smugness surrounding it :^)
Eh?
It's magic.
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Is that respectful "fuck you, sir"? It's hard to decipher with all that smugness surrounding it :^)
Nah, I can articulate better than that. And I say "oh fuck off", not "fuck you, sir". I'm not that polished. =3
What I see now is expectation of respectful nods, applause and patting on shoulders.
[...] what is point of fighting for equal rights when in the end you willingly exclude yourself out of general public.
Clearly I have misinterpreted what you meant by these two statements.
The idea of backing down to some safe space, isn't something I'm sympathetic to.
Neither am I.
[...] I haven't seen any game community where harassment was accepted or endorsed behaviour.
I wouldn't go so far as to say endorsed but I've been a visitor to some which accepted and excused the behavior with the usual "it's the internet" and "if we block everyone who acts like that then no one would be playing the game" or "tell her to find a group to play with".
What recourse do we have when moderators pretend they don't exist, gamers pretend the shit doesn't smell, and everyone excuses the pathetic behavior? Shouldn't we then, while voicing our displeasure to ignorant ears, try to find other like-minded / accepting / normal individuals to play with so we can enjoy the games we play?
I've been called a lot of words synonymous with smug but never smug outright. This is uncharted waters for me. I'm excited!
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Maybe you should try venturing out of your safe spaces more often, if you want excitement that is
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Oh look, a backhand remark. Aren't you just precious?
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It's a remark regarding never have being called smug and being excited about it. I find it odd and I'm probably being dense, or uneducated, but I don't know what you're trying to say.
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This is called "confirmation bias", though I suppose people don't always google terms they're not familiar with, so your description works just as well. |3
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There's another layer to it than just confirmation bias, as that's generalization & a "we & them" mentality.
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For what it's worth, I don't care that you're gay.
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Let's say that's actually a real expectation beyond extremes in solely digital territory, that comradery that you're remarking on is a result of people taking a ton of shit over a long stretch of time. Spend long enough taking flak for even being overheard uttering something about the subject, and people will get sick of it and push back. With enough pointless adversity from childish people, people eventually find solidarity in something a simple as standing near someone of the same group, a token amount of respect from the liklihood they have dealt with similar bullshit. I wonder why you find that strange enough to bring up like an anecdote of silly behaviour.
I mean, there are even some fine examples from the smug low-key remarks people are dropping in here, all because someone dared to drop a "hey, special interest gaming group over here!" thread.
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I would love to join because I am part of the LGBTQ community but like a lot of people that already stated why, I wouldn't be active enough.
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good luck :3
seems this is another good thread to fill my blacklist with replies from idiots
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Hahahahah, right?! The best is going to add someone to your BL, only to see they're already there. xD
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Now I'm genuinely curious. Are you saying that there's usually many idiots among the LBGTQ+ or that you already have identified an unusual amount of idiots? Also, how inclusive of you ;)
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no, i'm saying these threads seem to attract idiots that only share their hatred towards the gay community.
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Oh, ok. I wasn't aware of any other threads like this. They are common then?
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Ok, I didn't know they were common either, or I don't get you particular sense of humor :P
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no, really, just look at the reply below this one. that's the example i was talking about.
edit: and another one.
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Yeah ok, but before that obvious rude reply I've not noticed any... uhm... hate in this thread. Maybe I'm just not involved enough to see what you do.
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Your tag has fallen off. Thanks for helping me reapply it.
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I de-blacklisted and then re-blacklisted you just for that comment.
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Many individuals in this group are actually straight, but they simply don't want to deal with people who use words the way you do. This is an inclusive group, which means we accept everyone and protect their right to be who they are. Gay, straight, transgendered, asexual.. it doesn't matter, because it's not about the sexuality as you assumed, it's about the attitude and joining of like-minded people :). We don't sit down for a tea and discuss out sex lives, we simply go about our business, play games, and do what everyone else does, except we know we won't be judged or verbally abused.
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People can be LGBT whatsoever it's their business, I don't mind. I am not going to butt in and call names.
But the second they want legitimacy of their 'existence' e.g legalization of same sex marriage (in my country) moreso legalization in Church, I will come forth and strongly oppose.
But for Steam group, please feel free and good luck (I'm saying this sincerely).
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I take it you're religious then if you're against same sex marriage? Not important so feel free to ignore me I'm just curious.
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Super religious? No. Religious? Probably, to some extent. I am not going to say I'll surely go to Heaven when I die, but I can definitely say I have a religion.
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And what if a church from your religion is totally fine with marrying same-sex couples? Should the law prevent that?
No religion is ever a singular, uniform doctrine in absolute agreement. All the major religions are quite fractured, with all kinds of different 'flavours' and various takes on their deity's wills. Imposing the unsubstantiated opinions of a stranger upon the functional rights another has, is no less than creating a caste of second-class citizens who must obide the whims of others for no reason.
What you describe is kinda like saying "I fully support your right to have red hair and be out in public, but if you want the law to recognize redheads as equals I will totally be against that... but I hope you have a really nice day, lesser citizen!" :P
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Way to twist my words. There's no 'if' from the church. Since when did Roman Catholic Church allow same sex marriage?
The answer is never has and never will.
And the fact that my country - the majority of residents will oppose LGBT super strongly (Muslim majority), my stance is pretty lenient. There's even death threat to LGBT people (not by me definitely).
If people want to support LGBT rights (e.g education, safety etc), please do so, they're also human beings, they're not aliens. It's just they're asking for legalization (in this case, marriage) that ticks me off.
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Actually, there are a TON of 'ifs' in all churches. Religion is not solely owned by the historical heads, but by anyone who holds the belief. When I said 'church' I did not mean 'the establishment', I meant a literal bishop who is willing to marry a same-sex couple. Because they do exist. They may not be a majority, but they do exist. If the only reason a person can dream up for a same-sex couple to not be married is "but the religion disallows it", then given the amorphous nature of belief, so long as there is an ordained minister or authority figure willing to perform the ceremony, then the marriage should be legit. Religion is not enforced to mandatory standards. Violent felons are happily accepted. People feel that random parts are metaphorical, and others literal. Who you ask will determine what they feel is literal or expected to be followed to the letter. The Westboro Baptist Church exists for crying out loud, as do religious 'charities' that will only help the destitute (or disaster victims) if they convert or partake in small rituals as tokens of gratitude. Even the most unified religion has it's fractures, and any individual believer can have their own spin on even the most sacred of core tenets. If an individual church and it's authority doesn't adhere 100% to the literal meaning of it's host religion, is that church then deemed "not one of us" and unable to perform marriage rites? Consider how far the modern version of your religion differs from it's actual roots for a moment.
So yes, there are plenty of 'ifs' and gray areas.
And no, I didn't really twist your words, I simply expanded upon the the fact you cheerfully mention you oppose gay marriage while in the same breath wishing them well. Let me offer you an alternate example of this so you might understand why I said anything : "Hi, I think your kind are a pest and need to get evicted out of our country and will elect a candidate who will most likely do this, but I hope you have a nice day!" or "You belong in the kitchen making men sandwiches and squirting out babies, and if a motion passed to remove your right to vote I'd join it, but I genuinely hope your job interview goes well!". Do you see what I'm saying now? Opposing something of a vital area of equality doesn't really get prettied up much by even a genuine wish of happiness. :p
Given that marriage is not singularly a religious thing as it confers legal benefits and certain entitlements, what exactly about allowing a whole denomination of legal citizens those rights equally ticks you off? You do realise that by withholding rights from a specific group with no rational basis is straight up prejudice, right?
(and when I say rational basis, I mean rational basis that actually holds water when scrutinised)
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If you don't want to challenge yourself with critical thinking, there is no way I can force you to I suppose.
Just realise that when your opinions reach out and would severely effect the rights of others, it's no longer just an opinion or just a belief.
Hopefully you will never have to experience a day where a stranger's whimsical opinion overrides your equal rights.
"Sorry, we know that your life-partner is terminally ill and will die soon, but you cannot visit because the law does not recognise you as related"
Your choice now is to either properly contemplate on the pain your values would help to cement... or to bury your head and ignore it. After all, the consequences of this particular value don't effect you at all. If you're not the one being hurt, why bother wasting time thinking about it, right?
...
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The roman catholic church doesn't have any problem with their ministers molesting kids too as long as their authority is not undermined.
You do realize there are also muslim majorities who will eradicate catholics too? So that doesn't make you especially nice just because there are worse people around.
Edit: Better choice of words.
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There's no need to bring religion conflict into this.
I'm pretty damn sure there are bunch of people, not just Catholics, that want to eradicate Muslims because they're heavily associated with terrorism. But it's not a topic to discuss around here.
I'm done talking with you.
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Actually, you were the one that brought up the wrongdoings of middle-eastern religion. LittleBibo1 may not have been polite about it, but they were right that just because other religions engage in higher profile injustice, it doesn't make the subject at hand less of an injustice. It's like saying "Disregard this rapist, because somewhere out there serial killers are still killing!".
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There are no groups just for straight people for the same reason we don't have White History Month.
However, if you're feeling left out, you should start a group for Braindead Assholes with Small Dicks.
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However, if you're feeling left out, you should start a group for Braindead Assholes with Small Dicks.
Ratio requirement: < 4 inches.
No activated brain cells.
No sexual activity on profile.
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However, if you're feeling left out, you should start a group for Braindead Assholes with Small Dicks.
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Totally unrelated, but I liked your pic with your pug. Just sayin'.
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I had used it as a memorial picture for her; Penelope passed away in August. It started making me sad every time I saw it so it had to go, unfortunately.
I do find it strange that this is like the third comment I've received in 48 hours about my profile picture, though.
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Shit, I'm sorry, I just thought it was a cute picture. Having lost a beloved pet myself I empathize.
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No worries. It is a cute picture, mostly because she was the prettiest pug who ever pugged. :)
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Aww...well at least you will have many fond memories of Penelope. That's an awesome name for a dog, but especially one whose breed starts with P. I dig the alliteration.
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Says people who deviate from societal norms shouldn't promote their sexuality
Deviates from sexual norms himself and is in groups promoting it
Calls people who point out his hypocrisy ignorant and a conformist
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He's so far called me a bitch, the "epitome of bitchiness" (lolol) and said he's glad my dog died but he hasn't used any true slurs like he did when he was originally suspended. It'll be kind of interesting to see where the mods consider the line crossed.
Tbh, he also called me a "young kid" so, as a woman who turned 31 a month ago, he's starting to warm up on me. xD
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That sounds like a hateful, stereotyping comment to me...and look at everyone below who not only condones it but praises it. Sad..
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How many loli/hentai groups are you in, hypocrite?
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LOLLL! I thought you were making a joke or something until I clicked his profile. Good lord
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he's now in the exclusive suspended group.
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LMAO!
BTW, he can't answer you. He's been suspended, apparently.
Thank you, lurking mod.
EDIT: damn, you're faster than I, Mullins. :D
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I probably shouldn't ask but. Is it something wrong with being in anime groups or am I misinterpreting your comment? I've never understood the anime thing myself but I can't see anything inherently wrong with liking weirdly drawn comics.
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You don't find the irony or hypocrisy in the fact that he tells people to fuck off with their "LGBT shit" because there aren't any groups for straight people and no one cares about vocalizing their sexuality, yet he's in Steam groups dedicated to the sexualization of cartoon children?
Because seriously, I'll probably chalk you up to being Forrest Gump slow if that's the case.
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I guess it's rather ironic but that was not really my question :)
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Your question was asking if there was something wrong with being in anime groups. I spelled out the hypocrisy of his comment for you, which is what my initial comment was about (calling him a hypocrite for being in sex-related groups).
How can I answer your question when I never said they were wrong to begin with? I just pointed out he was in them. I'm sorry you're reading comprehension is so poor and that you're being ridiculously obtuse for the sake of the argument.
I wholly wish there was a block/mute button in addition to the black list. -_-
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Oh wow, Sorry for taking up your time. I won't be replying to your comments in the future.
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Just in case you haven't seen it already
http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/3PVwH/antishitposting-script021-past-issues-fixed/search?page=31337
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But I like searching for and posting appropriate memes. :(
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Those groups are... um.
GEEZUS!
Should someone do some deeper investigations, for, you know, science, or something?
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Say hello to more blacklists
"Jesus Christ nobody needs to know about your fucking sexuality"
Funny that, considering your steam profile
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Is it okay to threaten people in this GBTQ-group? May I doxx you, as long as I respect your sexuality? Can I call you ugly words as long as they're not associated with race? May I wish cancer on you if I respect someones desire to ride penis?
If not, what is the bloody point?
Feels to me like the maxim should be something like "b nice to everyone plz", instead of some pointless political statement.
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I still don't get it. Why do you feel offended by the existence of a group like this?
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Quote me on where I said I was offended. I just think it's unnecessary, pointless and desperate. I can taste your salt, however. Yummy.
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Just read your own posts. If you weren't so negative about it you wouldn't have bothered writing such a comment in the thread. And then you get so defensive when asked.
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Well, you don't know me. I respond pretty negative to must stuff. You should see me salt. Still, you offended me by claiming I was offended. You put me in a funny no-win scenario. Either I say "Yes I am offended" or I say "No I am not offended", and I 'lose' either way. Pretty unfair.
My reaction was negative alright, I just wasn't offended by the topic/group/anything.
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I mean, the argument could be made that you are the salty one since you came into a group recruitment thread that very obviously you arent interested in, and started posting negative shit in it.
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This is a public forum. Are only positive reactions allowed? Do you always react positive? I keep it civil and I responded constructive. And here you are randomly throwing profanities at me. How mature.
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I didnt call you shit, I said you were posting negative shit. Speaking of maturity though, going into a harmless recruitment thread going "Oh, look at me! I'm this, I'm that! OoO0oo~" is hardly mature or constructive.
As far as how I react, I was taught if I disagree, to do it nicely (like a few others have in this same thread), or dont respond at all.
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You mean like in the Disney films "if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all"? My first post wasn't constructive, but it wasn't hateful or in spite. It was just the vibe I get from these kinds of groups, sue me for that if you like. This seems oddly personal to you. Did I offend you?
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Its no more personal to me, than it is to you, considering both of us are still replying to each other (though Im about to go make breakfast so...)
Also I said exactly what I meant, no Disney needed. If these type of groups give you bad vibes, it would have made more sense to say that, than to post some generic "look at me" nonsense and then start telling people theyre salty/offended when they reply to you.
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And there you are being offensive to other people. You look like you like going around looking for arguments.
You came into this discussion making a snide remark about the OP and then you try to be the poor victim.
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It wasn't my intention of hurting you. I'm sorry for the pain I caused you. I hope you can accept my sincerest apologize and go by your day. Instead, listen to some music you've never heard before or of: https://youtu.be/Rt-YszoU87s
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Ooh, you really think you're funny don't you? :D
Do everybody a favour, when you're in a bad mood again don't go posting in discussion threads and leave people alone.
Edit: Anyway, EOD for me. Must get back to gaming
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I'm in too many groups as it is ,but good luck.Just be advised; I made a thread celebrating the SCOTUS decision to allow same-sex marriage and it ended up an absolute trollfest. Some good,decent people posted too, of course.And hey, it is a good way to collect names for your black and whitelists.
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thanks again for your gay-marriage thread. it filled my blacklist from 3 users to over 40.
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I was tempted to post the link in case people wanted to add more hatemongers to their blacklists, but since a mod closed it, I'll err on the side of not getting banned caution.
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Same here. I think that's how you ended up on my whitelist, Khaz. <3
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"I needed a new heel for my shoe, so, I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Give me five bees for a quarter," you'd say."
Lolwut?
White people are so weird, holy shit.
I wasn't active 7 months ago. I feel left out.
Who the hell are you?
o.o
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I realized after reading further. I was never really into The Simpsons. Over here I think it was always shown after bedtime, or never at all on local television.
My second quote was myself commenting on the fact that I've just popped up out of nowhere and have proceeded to include myself in discussions.
Like a boss (and because I'm socially awkward...)!
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Sorry but all I can think of when I see 'safe space' is:
Good luck with your group though!
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I actually though it was a joke, but people seem dead serious about it... and I still cant wrap my head around it. South Park is comedy gold though.
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Me too, I guess it's a generational / geographic thing.
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Urg, I dun like "Introduce Yourself" threads. Dun make me! whines
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Queer, usually. Or sometimes Questioning. Depends who you ask. But to me, it's always been more about the general attitude of tolerance and acceptance rather than a specific acronym :)
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yeah i don't get it, Queer is already covered by lesbian or gay, isn't it? And questioning? That's not a sexuality...
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Honestly, I never got the "Q" part. Isn't "queer" actually an offensive word (or at least started as that) similar to "fag"? The fact, that it also means odd/weird certainly doesn't help.
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It depends on who you ask. Some people are terribly offended by it, some people embrace it as they feel it most accurately describes them(selves).
As if it couldn't get any more confusing for people trying to understand and be allies or at least accepting. :/
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I didn't know that people are terribly offended by it. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Isn't it odd to include it in the name for a group who's main purpose seem to be to not offend/trigger/upset people?
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Well, even I am of the opinion that some people are just way too thin skinned, tbh.
It's also my opinion that some people love drama and they go out of their way to be offended by things just so they can feel indignant. Of course, on the other side of that coin, you have people that purposefully try to offend so... shrug
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Look, in a perfect world, what other consenting adult a person chooses to sleep with should be inconsequential and only of import to the two people involved. Sadly, it's not that way right now. So, until it does become like that, people need a place where they're not feeling exhausted because of constantly having to be on guard. That's it.
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I'm honestly amazed at your conclusions. Because this world is not perfect people need safe places? I'm aware that this may sound condescending, it's not my intention, but I feel it's pertinent to ask at this time. You do realize that the world never will be perfect right?
I have a hard time understanding how one could feel that they need to constantly be on guard about their sexuality, or non-sexuality, to the extent that it's exhausting, or at all, on a gaming server.
Like someone else in this tread said. The very concept of safe spaces seem counter productive to me, at least as it has been explained to me this far. Just look at this tread. People are so entrenched in their own opinions and beliefs that instead of talking to someone not in complete agreement they are more comfortable with holding on to that snap judgement.
I find the amount of hostility in this tread quite saddening. But also a bit hilarious because for the most part it's not coming from bigotry regarding sexuality.
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The very concept of safe spaces seem counter productive to me, at least as it has been explained to me this far. Just look at this tread.
lgbtq safe space = isolated from unwanted individuals.
why?
most people will feel at ease knowing they won't be discriminated or insulted because of their choices.
and just to give you an example on-site of safe space: group/whitelist giveaways. :3
the same principle applied to steamgifts.
People are so entrenched in their own opinions and beliefs that instead of talking to someone not in complete agreement they are more comfortable with holding on to that snap judgement.
you know the problem in this thread?
i didn't see a single reply from people disagreeing with this group that had logical, polite and constructive content. and why is that?
because... how can you come up with something nice if you are just expressing your bigoted opinion?
all they posted was hate and intolerance so they got the same thrown back at them.
btw, i'm not referring to you in anything i said above so don't take it personal, just explaining how i see things.
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As I understand the concept of safe spaces, whitelists and giveaway groups are not really comparable. But even if they were exactly the same I'm not really in favor of those either for about the same reasons.
I've actually only seen one reply that I would consider to be in disagreement with the group. It would seem to me that it comes down to how much we and them mentality you apply when reading stuff.
Not to worry, in most crowds I'd be considered super slow to pick up on any hostility. If someone want's to offend me they'd have to be pretty blunt about it :P
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Everything Mullins said. Eloquent and to the point as always.
What I find saddening and, quite frankly, astonishing, is the argument against just letting people do what they want as long as it's not hurting anyone else.
It's really borderline "blaming the victim" mentality. And, apologies if this is abrasive toward anyone's sensibilities, but...
... that's really fucked up.
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Who is arguing against letting people do what they want? From my point of view it looks like you're just building a strawman to have something to argue against here.
Really, eloquent? It doesn't take more than that from someone you perceive being on your side? :)
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Well, you're the one who's arguing the whole time that safe spaces don't make sense, even though it's been explained to you over and over again :)
People have right to be selective about who they want to interact with when those interactions are optional - you're not going to tell me that you have to befriend every person you meet, right? Usually lbtq+ people don't want to be friends with homophobes and bigots and groups like that aim to weed out such individuals, so they can interact with people for whom their gender/sexuality won't be a problem now or later. You'd probably argue that it's just hiding away and they need to toughen up and ignore assholes (which doesn't improve situation in any way). But trust me, they will meet unavoidable fair share of assholes in real life, so don't worry about them becoming too thin skinned. Just let the people enjoy their hobby the way they want and with whomever they want ;P
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I'm saying that the concept of safe spaces seem counter productive to me. I don't understand why you feel the need to tell me that I should let people enjoy their hobby the way they want? For some reason people in this thread keep telling me I should stop holding positions that I don't really hold and that I should educate myself and trust them on their judgment of things.
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and what exactly is counter-productive to you in that? It serves its purpose (which is: "I don't wanna deal with any homophobic assholes at this very moment, I want to interact only with people who are not like that right now") for many people just fine, so it's the exact opposite of counter productive. If you have any better, easier idea to achieve the aim I mentioned, please share...
"I don't understand why you feel the need to tell me that I should let people enjoy their hobby the way they want?" Oh, it was just a friendly reminder if you'd ever forget it in this discussion :) but frankly I didn't mean that in personal way (I meant it more like "live and let live" expression not really directed at you, just showing how I see the issue)
"For some reason people in this thread keep telling me I should stop holding positions that I don't really hold and that I should educate myself and trust them on their judgment of things." I've never said any of this, but the way these conversations go so far, I just doubt you'll understand stance of others in this matter, so arguing further seems kinda... counter productive? ;) But it's your choice what you're doing with your time. Said by the person who likes to talk with trolls sometimes
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Like I've said before, just not mentioning ones sexual orientation seems far easier to me. It was both a friendly reminder to me and not directed at me at all? If you say so. I guess I was mislead by the fact that it was reply to my post.
The next part doesn't really make much sense to me, other than if you're accusing me of trolling, so I don't really have anything to say about that.
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In that case one'd still be dealing with the type of people or behavior they want to avoid, so it does not fulfill the purpose I mentioned in any way and it's "counter-productive" thing to do with that goal in mind.
And just because something seems far easier to you, it doesn't mean it is easier for everyone else. People are different, have different needs, sensitivities, priorities and so on. Some value being open about who they are very high. Some don't like hearing certain insults over and over again (and they will hear them regardless of mentioning their orientation or not). Some don't care about that at all. In the end it all boils down to what an individual prefers to do.
Ah, and you didn't answer my question: what exactly is counter-productive in safe space idea as a mean to achieving the purpose I wrote before.
I wasn't serious about it being friendly reminder (that's why I used "but frankly" after that remark) - I just found it funny that you focused so much on that part and disregarded everything else before ;) Sorry if you somehow got offended by that.
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I guess that depends on how you define have to deal with. If I don't tell anyone that I prefer AMD over Nvidia on a gaming server I don't have to deal with graphics card bigotry. Yes people are different, I'm aware but thank you for yet another friendly reminder, I guess. As for idea idea of safe spaces to isolate people from, whatever they are set up to isolate them from, I think it's spot on. That's however not what I'm referring to when I say I think it's counter productive. To me it seems counter productive to, what I imagine is, the overall goal of reducing bigotry and segregation.
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Depends on the context (as is the case with english language in general). Here it's "unusually different" aka "other" category. LGBT are just easy to categorize and label sub-groups.
But yes, it doesn't help that most of meanings of the word carry a negative emotion shade
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Transgender isn't sexuality, either. It's gender identity. Again, it's about a general attitude of being ok with people being themselves.
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Speaking of, that tends to throw people off, because L, G, and B are sexual orientations, while T is not. Some would argue it doesn't even fit with the first 3. So, more confusion for folks.
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Sounds like it would be easier to just say people :P
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So much drama here, why people can't just ignore it and move along? I'm laughing my ass off at some comments xD
Anyway have a bump, nothing more.
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No such thing as a civil discussion with some topics.
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No, we simply need to raise the level of discourse above the petty vulgarity of the meanest, most vituperative, most close-minded among us.
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I don't disagree, I just do not see it. People don't want to discuss, learn or grow. They want to be right.
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Some people actually feel threatened by groups like this etc.
As if they think their breed is dying out.
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Sensitive Cis-gendered heterosexual individuals are scared! They must be protected! #Cis-GenderedPeopleMatter
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Did you improve your CSGO killing abilites at the end?!
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At the end? Sorry, do you know me from another thread? Also i'm better at cs:go now, yes. I've been getting 25+ kill comp matches with less than 6 deaths lately.
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Oh, maybe I'm making a mistake. I remember one person who was looking for people to play csgo and get better. I thought it was you.
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Hi everyone!
Just thought I would let you know about our group. Apart from offering a safe space for everyone, we also do monthly and milestone giveaways. Please do not join just for the giveaways though, this group is supposed to be for people of various gender expressions and sexual or romantic orientations and their allies. You can find the group here - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/lgbtqgaming
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