9 years ago*

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What gun should I get? (Based on info provided in previous thread)

View Results
Sig Sauer P228 (m11-a1) - 9mm
Sig Sauer P229 - .40 S&W
Five-SeveN - 5.7
CZ 75 SP-01 - 9mm
Beretta 92 FS compact - 9mm
Kimber Pro Carry II - .45 ACP
H&K USP compact - .45 ACP
H&K P2000 - .357 sig or .40 S&W
Springfield XD(M) compact - .40 S&W or .45 ACP
You don't need to carry a gun

Sig Sauer gets my vote. Super solid and reliable firearm. Calibre is more of a personal choice, I prefer 9mm but we are not allowed to conceal carry where I live. the 229 looks like it would be what I would go with if I had the option of concealed. Good luck on your decision.

9 years ago
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I don't know much about guns, but please be responsible with yours and use it only as a last resort to a life threatening situation.
IMO if someone gets in a fist fight with you, there's no need to pull out a gun.
Too many people getting too comfortable around guns. You're literally holding death in your hands.

But besides that, I'd say just get a gun you're comfortable with. Minimal recoil is the most important, and realistically caliber shouldn't make a difference. A "weak" gun can still easily drop an attacker. Try out a few at a gun range!

9 years ago*
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You can thank gun culture for that.

9 years ago
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No question. It's a tough mindset to get out of, though. There's a million valid arguments for both sides.
But the law is the rule and people will always do things they're allowed to.

9 years ago*
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Maybe two, and that's being generous, in favor of gun ownership. Even then, it's qualified ownership with restrictions, regulations, and countermeasures to prevent abuse.

An argument isn't valid just because someone holds a strong conviction in it. The validity of an argument is related to its cogency, potency, and relevancy of application. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who actually does research and thinks critically about this issue should conclude that guns should be something people can own, but ownership comes with many responsibilities and conditions that must be respected; and that only those who qualify for gun ownership (background checks, psychiatric evaluations, mandatory training, etc.) should be allowed to own it. Owning a gun is a right, but that doesn't mean it cannot be revoked if you are unfit for responsible ownership or you abuse your rights.

9 years ago
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Hm, mabye there aren't that many vaaalid arguments, but they're certainly arguments people feel strongly about. And as long as a lot of people feel that way, it'll have an impact on the law. At least in America, I think. Ideally, it's how democracy should work.
But I agree 100% that gun ownership shouldn't be taken lightly. You said it better than I could.
Also I thought about gun culture and its prevalence at least in America. We're taught that freedom is the most important right that we need to protect, so Americans are very resistant to change and especially restrictions. That and the fact that the 2nd amendment is literally about guns means gun culture isn't going anywhere. Even legislation probably wouldn't do much looking at prohibition.

9 years ago*
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You brought up many good points and it got me thinking about this. Do you mind if I rant a bit? I have a rather long post written up, but I decided it's quite rude to use you as my soapbox. You touched on some extremely important points, though, and I'd love to explore them further.

9 years ago
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Oh sure go ahead. I think it's great you have such a strong opinion on this.
I'll be back in about 12 hours, so I won't be able to read it right now. :<

9 years ago
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I apologize for the rant, but I feel I should expound here, if only to give people food for thought.

[rant]

In the United States, we are brought up to be ideologically patriotic libertarians. Maximum freedom and maximum zeal. People don't seem to understand, however, that true freedom doesn't exist. Unqualified freedom is, quite literally, anarchism. It's made all the worse when our libertarian ideals are tied together with a sense of compulsory nationalism, a unmitigated pride in one's country for no other reason than that one lives in it. As a result, many lead lives believing that we are a free country and we should be proud of this. Alas, these people probably never considered what "free" means, and many aren't aware that even by our own standards, we are not the freest country in the world. Far from it.

Social contract theory is the foundation of modern society. Social contract is what binds a society together: we sacrifice certain liberties in favor of greater social cooperation. We are not allowed to murder each other, but we will work together to punish those who do. We cannot rape, but we will work together to prevent others from doing so to us or those we love. We cannot steal, but we will work together to support each other as a community so that nobody has to. We sacrifice certain liberties to ensure safety and security as a society. We lay down our arms and work together to building a society wherein all can live comfortably. When someone violates this social contract, we band together to punish them. Over time, this contract grows more complex as we grow more advanced. We no longer lynch the criminals, but give their fair trial and due process like everyone else. We give to the poor and develop welfare systems which support society from its base. We legislate sophisticated laws and regulations, and formulate bold policies and initiatives, all to help foster a healthier, safer, and better society.

One of the liberties we sacrifice for overall safety is the right to privately own deadly weapons and use them however we please. People can still own these weapons and purchase them, but they must satisfy certain criteria before doing so. This is to prevent abuse by those who wish to exploit the system or break the social contract. Guns are one such deadly weapon, but unlike blades and bludgeons, they possess a far greater lethality amplified by its range and ease of use.

Some argue that the right to own guns should remain an unqualified freedom, and that no restrictions should be placed upon it or those who exercise it. This is a flawed argument, however, because it attempts to elevate gun ownership above the social contract as something incontrovertible and unalienable no matter the circumstances. In doing so, they justify all manner of criminals and wrongdoers to exploit this exemption in the contract, thereby leading to social disorder. Since this right would no longer be governed by the social contract, it results in a society which is subject to the whims of those who exploit it. Without any restrictions or fetters, there is nothing to prevent gun violence from occurring. Vigilantes will use their guns to fight those they think are threats to society and criminals will have far easier access to a limitless weapons restrained only by the amount of money they steal.

Others argue that the right to own guns should be revoked wholesale alongside rape and murder, since it is such a danger to society and its constituents. This argument is also flawed because guns—like any weapon—are tools and it is up to the possessor to decide when and how to use it. It is true that guns are a weapon, a type of tool whose sole function is to harm another; however, weapons can be used both for criminal misconduct and lawful protection. The key is preventing the former from acquiring these weapons while respecting the latter's right to protect themselves and others. The problem with obtaining this balance is that it is often approached legally rather than culturally. These others would prefer legal prohibition of firearms as the solution. In reality, this only ends in depriving the lawful from legally protecting themselves while permitting the lawless to hold a monopoly on civil firepower. When this policy is extended to law enforcement, we effectively defang the only body of people adequately trained enough to combat criminals through their monopoly on violence.

The solution, I believe, is both legal and cultural reform, with an emphasis on the latter. Gun control is certainly something that is rather necessary in a civil society: background checks to ensure violent criminals with recent blemishes on their record aren't loading up with guns; psychiatric evaluations to ensure those who purchase the firearm(s) are healthy-minded and responsible citizens rather than someone planning their suicide or prone to uncontrollable fits of rage; appropriate licensing and registration to ensure they are held accountable for their ownership and don't abuse their right; and mandatory training and testing to ensure the gun owner has adequate knowledge and discipline to properly handle a firearm and situations which call for its application.

9 years ago
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(Had to break it up because I actually hit the character limit for SG. I didn't think there was one!)

But this isn't the only, or even the main, reform that is necessary. The United States is a very trigger-happy nation who loves their metal toys. Unlike gun culture in Sweden or Switzerland, however, gun culture in the US is a perverted, ill-mannered variant of firearm appreciation. We have an obsession with guns. It's in our mass media, our movies, our music, and our games. There are conventions and magazines and organizations dedicated solely to gun collecting and appreciation. These in and of themselves are not bad, and they can be found in many societies with healthy gun cultures, but we express this culture so openly and fanatically that is borders on idolatry. Unlike other nations, whose appreciation of guns remain moderate and reserved, we openly profess our love for our tools of death.

Another issue with our gun culture is that we treat guns as status symbols and expressions of one's masculinity. Many purchase guns to reinforce some ideal of masculinity and power, as if their ownership of a deadly weapons allots them more authority in the world or more weight to their words. Guns are not simply tools of protection or weapons of self-defense, but marks of pride and prestige, as if there is anything to be proud or prestigious about owning a gun. Even among female gun owners, there are those who treat it as if their guns grant them more strength and power. They feel safer, and perhaps rightfully so, but this illusion of safety can give them a false sense of security—something any gun owner can experience regardless of their sex.

Many gun owners, male and female, treat guns as wards against all threats and evils, real or perceived, when that is not a purpose of a gun. A gun is a source of protection under extreme circumstances, not a magic bubble which will guard you no matter where you walk. Many people grow overconfident to the point of arrogance when they own a gun, assuming an air of invincibility or invulnerability from any and all dangers so long as they are the quicker draw. This sort of attitude is a dangerous one to adopt since it threatens the lives of one's self and others. People become quicker to brandish or mention their ownership during heated disputes, as if it is a threat. They lose sight of what it means to own a gun: to carry a deadly weapon responsibly and treat it as a countermeasure to only the most dire of threats. It is not a negotiation tool, nor is it leverage in a dispute. This may not be most gun owners, or even the majority, but it's nonetheless widespread.

I believe this is because the gun culture in the United States facilitates these sorts of views. We obsess and we worship about our guns when we're better off treating them less like idols and more like tools. It's true that not all gun owners are like this, but the fact that even a significant portion of them are is indicative that something is wrong. It doesn't help, either, when our culture regards guns as playthings, when we describe them as "sexy", and when we treat them as if they were our babies.

I'm not sure how to change this cultural paradigm. Education can help, but I doubt it would be enough. In the end, the decision has to come from the gun owners themselves to lead responsible lives and treat their guns as tools rather than toys. Those who oppose or criticize these owners should always respect their right to own them, as well. Both sides must be willing to accept that guns too are subject to the social contract, however, and that the right to own one is a qualified freedom like most all others. Banning them outright disenfranchises the lawful of their guns and monopolizes the lawless as the sole possessors. Unrestricted purchase and ownership is hardly any better, however, when the law has no fangs to fight those who abuse their rights or take advantage of our nation's legal impotence to harm themselves or others.

What is needed is a paradigm shift in US gun culture and accompanying laws which hold owners accountable, while respecting their rights, so as to prevent the abuse of them. The problem with gun violence is not gun ownership per se, but rather the attitude about guns that a society fosters coupled with an ineffectual legal system which fails to adequately prevent the illicit circulation of firearms. When these guns are not accounted for, they can fall off the public record. When that occurs, there's no guarantee that the possessor of that firearm is the actual owner, or if they intend to be lawful with it. It's even worse when we as a society condones (and endorses) a conception of firearms as tools of influence to be used when all else fails and moreover let these firearms fall into the hands of the mentally ill.

Unfortunately, none of this can really occur when there are still gun nuts who would rather openly defy federal law than give up their guns, thereby breaking the very social contract which guarantees their safety and rights in the first place. Until this side cooperates with the gun control advocates, we will remain a trigger-happy nation in love with their metal toys. And people will die every day because of this.

(As for the 2nd Amendment itself... That's a bit more complex. I've already ranted long enough, so It's probably time to end it here.)

[/rant]

View attached image.
9 years ago
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9 years ago
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It's great that you're well informed to make good choices.
You definitely know more about guns than I do, so I'll take your word for it. ^^

9 years ago
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I must Insist on getting Mad Moxxi's gun from borderlands ,.

9 years ago
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I live in Brazil, which is pretty dangerous if you ask me (or anybody else for that matter) and I'll never understand this fetish for guns you americans have.

Are you really sure it's just about personal defense?

9 years ago
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Of course not. We should really take some advice from Sweden (and maybe Switzerland) when it comes to gun ownership. Guns are weapons, not status symbols. They are there to protect and should be used only under the most extreme circumstances when there is immediate threat to one's life or another's by a malicious party. Unfortunately, some people prefer to treat them as toys. Guns can be fun to shoot, but people here apparently fail to draw the distinction between when to play and when to protect.

9 years ago
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People always get into this discussion, the bad people in the U.S. can have any gun they want so why shouldn't good people be allowed to legally get guns to protect themselves. Do you all prefer that criminals just kill everyone? The criminals themselves say if they knew people had guns they wouldn't attack or mug them. The places in the U.S. that ban guns are the most violent and have the most deaths to guns (illegal ones). Also Mexico has very strict gun laws.......need I say more on that?

9 years ago
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the bad people in the U.S. can have any gun they want so why shouldn't good people be allowed to legally get guns to protect themselves. Do you all prefer that criminals just kill everyone?

No, but (un)fortunately it isn't such a simple issue. The "bad people" are only able to acquire firearms illicitly because the firearms which are sold or enter the country are not properly tracked. It's true that some will continue to enter illicitly anyway, but tracking the purchases and holding owners accountable for their weapons is a first major step at preventing illicit firearm trade. Also, few people actually advocate for a total ban on all guns, so that's kind of a mischaracterization of an entire ideology with multiple degrees of intensity.

The instances wherein lethal force is required for self-protection are so low that this argument is less of a logical justification and more of an emotional appeal. Nonlethal force is more than capable of handling most violent or hostile encounters, and oftentimes law enforcement intervenes. They are more trained and more able to adequately assess and handle the situation than a citizen, hence their position and monopoly on violence. Attempting to usurp their authority through vigilantism only makes you a self-righteous criminal who's not allowing due process in favor of lethal and excessive force.

The criminals themselves say if they knew people had guns they wouldn't attack or mug them. The places in the U.S. that ban guns are the most violent and have the most deaths to guns (illegal ones). Also Mexico has very strict gun laws.

Citation needed on all three sentences.

need I say more on that?

Yes.

9 years ago
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Citation in Vice interviews and other news interviews, sorry but I am a busy person and don't have the time to cite them for you but I have cited them tons of times in previous months on other websites so maybe you can find it somehow on google.

9 years ago
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If you cannot provide the citations, then I have no reason to believe you. The onus is on you. Vice and news interviews moreover wouldn't substantiate your claims, anyway, since yours are general ones which are meant to apply to all criminals, not just the select few they interviewed. Even if you provided that evidence, I seriously doubt it would be enough to support your statements.

Bold claims demand bold proof, and it seems you have none.

9 years ago
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Well it comes down to our constitution, you want to ban guns maybe they should ban freedom of speech as well then?

Here is a video of a criminal with an illegal gun which ends nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsCWK4XYHV8&ab_channel=DashcamMayhem

Here is some video that seems like a comedy turn on it to show what is wrong with breaking our Constitution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo&ab_channel=antiprise

Here is a video showing citizens saving lives with guns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9ZEbyDee8A&ab_channel=TheInjusticeReport

Here is Detroit's police cheif saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vbmp5xfzBg&ab_channel=WesternJournalism

I will edit this to show more later, sorry I didn't spend my time to do some googling for you before (just being a bit cheeky not actually mad at you).

9 years ago
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You're intentionally misrepresenting my argument now? You're being hyperbolic and trying to build a strawman, something people only enjoy in comedy. If you aren't, then it's awfully strange that you would claim that I hold a position I have not endorsed and even contradicted. I have not once argued for the prohibition of firearms, and have even argued the exact opposite.

Your YouTube videos are cherrypicked anecdotal events which do not meaningfully contribute to this discussion.

9 years ago
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You were arguing against me, I was just stating facts. I don't enjoy arguing as you can see, I don't care if someone wants to own a gun or if they don't want to own a gun. However it is a constitutional right as an American and it always has been, please just don't make the founding fathers roll in their graves for what they fought for and just enjoy your day. : )

9 years ago
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You weren't stating facts. You were stating anecdotes and unverified opinions (which may be false or blatant lies). Those are not "facts" in the slightest. Of course one has a constitutional right as a U.S. Citizen to own a gun; pointing out something so obvious as to be assumed as true does nothing to strengthen your position.

I don't care in the slightest about the opinions of men three centuries removed from our own society regarding the political issues of today. Their opinions are valuable in historical contexts, and many of them used cogent arguments to defend their positions. The documents they authored, however, are considered "living" in that they are open to reinterpretation based on the times in which it is reviewed. Their opinions and personal interpretations do not, nor should they, hold any bearing on contemporary debate surrounding political issues. Oh and by the way, George Washington vehemently opposed political parties. He's been "rolling in his grave" for nearly three centuries now.

The "Founding Fathers" fought for the end of subjugation and oppressive rule against the British Empire. They did not fight for your right to own guns in specific.

When you have a valid argument, feel free to present it and we can continue this discussion. Until then, I recommend finding better sources for your claims. Have a good day.

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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I don't care about your petty legal wins to throw us further back in time. I know you're trying to be provocative, and I'd rather you not. Unless it's news of disappointment on your behalf, please keep it to you and your fellow extremists.

9 years ago*
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9 years ago
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Keep trolling. It just gives people more reason to believe you're just having a laff and rather not legitimately insane. Poe's law definitely applies here. You're already on my blacklist, and you'll probably find your way on others' if you keep it up.

Wait, didn't I say I'm not going to respond to you anymore? Well damn, I guess your provocation did get the best of me. Good job. When you become an adult, maybe you make a living as an Internet marketing shill.

9 years ago
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8 years ago
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8 years ago
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Great job necrobumping, degenerate. I don't go to any colleges, so the existence of insecure manchildren stalking campuses with their metal penises are of no concern to me. Kindly do everyone a favor and shoot yourself in the head repeatedly. It's the only possible way a useless idiot like you can meaningfully improve this world now.

Now get lost. Final response.

8 years ago
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get yourself something pretty ;

9 years ago
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2nd amendment.. fuck yeah

anyway, ill go with h&k usp

9 years ago
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First, i check for P229, then i read all pages and as result; you dont need a gun.

9 years ago
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think about rpg...

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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good, you can always make a big entrance with great boom XD

btw I heard only good stuff about beretta

9 years ago*
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You shouldn't. The world would be a better place if people didn't feel the need to carry guns.

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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Yea, cause if criminals do it, everyone should be allowed too....I see the logic there.

9 years ago
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I would go for the FN Five-Seven, it's pretty compact for a gun that holds 20 rounds in a standard mag and it uses the same round that the FN P-90 uses and has armor piercing capabilities who could come in handy when someone is shooting at you from behind cover. On the down side I do not know how easy or hard it is to get 5.7×28 mm ammunition in the States. Btw I wish my country would have a 2nd amendment....

9 years ago
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View attached image.
9 years ago
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Works best!

9 years ago
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What should I get?

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9 years ago
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I've had an XD 45 for a long time, since before I got out of the Marines. Best pistol I've ever owned, It will stop any bedroom intruder dead in their tracks.

View attached image.
9 years ago
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9 years ago
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Yes the service model.

9 years ago
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This thread is so laughable..

9 years ago
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Go for an old good 911

9 years ago
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I'd probably get a gun too if I had the chance..considering how dangerous the world has become

8 years ago
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I own a Beretta 92FS, solid choice, voted for it in the poll.

Don't let the brainwashed sway you Swaggins, you have a right to defend yourself and your family, especially considering how fragmented and dangerous the US is becoming.

8 years ago
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Closed 7 years ago by Swaggins.