What gun should I get? (Based on info provided in previous thread)
Get desert eagle if you can,and just ignore politically correct answers ;)
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A musket.
Good luck trying to hide that thing. Or getting a shot.
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I'm a native U.S. Citizen born and raised in Texas and I openly criticize US gun laws. I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume that I am supporting your flawed ideology simply because I live in the same state or country as you. Not all of us approve of laws which lost their relevancy two centuries ago.
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Since when does ownership imply knowledge? A person can own a product and not know what it does. You clearly underestimate the audacity of the willfully ignorant. Exposure to firearms does not imply knowledge of it, either.
Unless you have evidence that Americans are more knowledgeable than citizens from other countries about firearms, your retort above is founded on empty rhetoric.
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Don't come here for serious discussions as most of the people here are "peaceful" and guns are evil.
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Maybe try some Hogue Rubber grips or Pachmeyr grips,they seem suited to bigger hands.If you want some cool looking grips though I recommend these grips for looks alone: http://www.hogueinc.com/store/products/sig-sauer-p228-p229-checkered-g10-g-mascus-green/6446
I have those on my P220 and they look and feel great.
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Are you former or current Navy then?
Or did the range/gunstore have a M11?
I'm a stainless man myself,I like stainless because I don't have to worry about rust,I also think most guns look better in stainless: like 1911's,my P220,S&W 686,and S&W 639.
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Guns are only good for hunting imo. All this self defense talk is just nonsense to me unless you lived in no man's land (I.e. cops are too far away to help ya). Before you say anything, I'm Canadian and should look up how many guns we own up here.
P.S. More often than not, every time there is a gun related crime here, the gun is found to have originated from the USA, so I do have a valid grievance with American gun culture.
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Crime rates go up in European countries with high influx of third world immigrants (mostly islamic). Noticing this is considered racism here. That's why we in Europe are more happy to talk about problems in the US and completely ignore our own rather serious problems
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No love for the Colt M1911? That would be my choice.
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that and i just love the look and feel. it was the gun i first fired and learned on.
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That is surely the better route to go,an accurate and reliably 1911 are very fun.
I hunt deer with my Colt Delta Elite(10mm 1911),if ever hunt handgun hunting is pretty fun,I like handgun hunting because it is more challenging for me and it gives my buddies a chance to shoot a deer.(I use the Colt,they use their rifles)
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Glocks are so ugly though,plus with 10mm you aren't going to need hi-capacity,unless you buy the weak 10mm loads that are loaded to .40 specs,if you go with powerful 10mm like from Underwood Ammunition or you make some hot handloads even bears won't be a problem unless you are in Alaska then you should go with .50AE(Lar Grizzly 1911 or Desert Eagle) or .500 S&W Magnum.(I have shot a few bears with my 10mm,most of them took 1-2 shots,1 of them took 3)
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"You don't need to carry a gun." It's crazy in USA how easy is to get a gun, still remember to see a European guy taping a market and after the fruit section there were guns... selling like they were selling cakes. I'm from Portugal and lived in countries like Poland and Germany and always felt safe to run at night, like 3 or 4 am, but let's think if i was living in USA where everyone have a gun would i feel so comfortable like over here? No, for sure. Like him i would see the need to get a gun to at least be more conformable but yeah it's not a thing that get my biggest support since we don't see guns anywhere around here so our mentality is a little different (talking about general audience ofc, not the problematic places).
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i live in orange county, and have gone on 3-4am runs all the time. it all depends on the city, area and size of population.
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The stars are great guns,I used to own their PD model in .45 acp,it weighed 25 oz and was very reliable and decently accurate for a pistol with a 3 inch barrel.They aren't exactly a 1911,they are much cheaper though usually,you can find them between $275-$350(sometimes higher).They are one of the best pistols under $400,I only got rid of mine because I wanted a Cold Defender in Stainless.(the Star PD was blued)
Also something most people don't is that the Colt Mustang(new one and old one)were made by star then re-branded Colt.
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The Star 1911 esque pistols were often used in WWII,they have as much history as the Hi-Power.
With powerful rounds such as .357 Sig,.357 magnum,10mm,.45 acp,.44 magnum,.45 Winchester Magnum and above double stack is unnecessary as those rounds will likely kill your target in 1-2 rounds if proper placed.Now in 9mm and .40 I would definitely want a double stack as there are lots of stories about needing quite a few shots with 9mm and .40,I haven't heard of anyone taking more than 2 shots of 10mm and above and living though.
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Seriously though, if you want a "Dependable" Firearm, get a Revolver.
You can actually load them faster then an automatic, by using the right speedloader, and they NEVER jam!
I love my snub nose S&W magnum .50 cal
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Not many Hand guns on the Market fire .50 cal Bullets, most top out at .45 ACP
You like big Bullets, choose your poison
http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stmonster_1103a.jpg
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Ah! Well then, your choices make more sense to me now.
I voted for the H&K USP compact - .45 ACP, mostly because I love the Versatility of H&K Firearms in general.
If you were going to be wearing it under a suit, I would actually recommend the MP5 with all Collapsible parts in a shoulder holster.
If your just gonna wear it on your hip for everyone to see, you might as well go with my 1st suggestion of a Colt Python. :-P
Despite the extra weight, the big advantage of the MP5 is Money.
Oh! I know what you're gonna say. It's a SMG, and therefore way more expensive then a Hand gun!
but actually, the High prevalence of MP5 usage means there are far more of them on the Re-sale market then many other Firearms, so They can be found at cheaper prices.
Not as cheap as a Hand gun, be still, better priced then a "Desert Eagle" yuck
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1st. no offence intended but "a gun that I can comfortably conceal, especially under the hot Texas sun in a t-shirt" does'nt exist unless your T-shirt is 3 sizes too large, and even then, anyone who actually knows about guns, also knows all the places that you could hide one on your body, and won't let you grab your gun if it's a stand off.
2nd You're right, I've never recieved any Formal training. Everything I know comes from my father, who I feel is a gun nut. The only gun I own is my S&W 500
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/8267161841/10702255/dscn2148.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg
and it looks like that, and it's difficult to fire repeated and accurately from more then few yards away due to the tremendous Kick. I have however fired a number of different guns, thanks to good old dad, and out of all of those, I liked the MP5 for it's versatility. It's basicly a platform that you can build your own gun off of. Every piece other then the Firing Mechanism can be swapped out for something else. With the right parts, it can fufill any role except Sniper Rifle.
But that's just the opinion of an "Untrained" individual, who's spent way too much time shooting guns at paper targets with his Father.
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that's why I erased it, i did'nt realize it was a stupid replica till after I posted
1st hand experience with people pointing guns at me? No.
1st hand experience spotting concealed weapons? Yes.
Working as a bouncer, you don't want to let anyone with a gun through the door.
I have no idea what kind of Licenses he has, I do know that he has a Howitzer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_howitzer
And I've seen him fire it. I'm guessing that that's not a concealable weapon either :-P
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Well, you really know your Laws!. Can you tell me the Round limit to a conceal carry in washington state?
again. I spotted that It was a Clone PoS right after I posted it
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12 rounds. Everything has to have less then 12 rounds, or it's considered Illegal.
The state Police got a law passed that basicly stated that anything with a magazine greater the 12 rounds is obviously intended to be used in manner that would "Put normal police men, just doing their jobs, at far greater Risk".
Meanwhile, it's ok for them to carry an actual M2/M16 in the Vehicle with them.
And for once, I know it was a Military model, because the AR 15 looks like a cheap plastic PoS, and the M16 A2 does'nt.
Yes. I've been arrested before, please don't act so surprised :-P
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so, it looked something like this
http://cache.desktopnexus.com/thumbseg/300/300810-bigthumbnail.jpg
no I did'nt get close enough to see the Serial number, but then, the campaign ribbons on his uniform like in this picture
https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/doris1.png?w=640&h=420
looked Real.
Might've been fake, but he took me to a Real jail. ;-P
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Why do you think I like my Dad's MP5 so much. :-)
The parts are all made in germany, imported to Mexico, and Redistributed throughout the U.S. thanks to NAFTA.
You can build your own MP5 from scratch, and appearently that's what he did.
He also has every conceivable part and or accessory for it.
He's set it up with the Dual Grips where I could fire it in a weaver stance without benefit of a stock
He's put a canister supressor on it (Appearently highly Illegal) that took the noise down to the ratchet of the mechanism and a sound like some one blowing through flapping lips
He's set it up so many different ways, and used so many different parts, that I'm not even sure it's 1 gun.
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So. I believe that the police officer who arrested me, "Lost" his rifle, and it was noted. After a search, He was disciplined and fined for the cost.
When he was safely "Discharged", he just happened to find it.
As it looks a great deal like an AR 15, he may have simply switched out the AR 15, which all police in Washington may choose to carry instead of the usual shotgun, with his M16.
I remember asking him why he had an "Assault Rifle" since the Brady bill had been passed, and he said "I earned that one with my Blood".
He was wearing a Purple heart Ribbon next to a Desert Storm Ribbon.
Every other one I've seen, and yes, I've seen the inside of more then 1 patrol car, has had a Matte Black toy that looks like this
http://cdn5.freedomoutpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AR-15.jpg
or the traditional Shotgun, which was meant for Lock Removal, and Door busting, not filling people full of holes. T.T
For some one who likes guns, I would've expected more Shooters on your steam account, or at least
http://store.steampowered.com/app/262410
since it's a Free to Play.
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He had it sitting in a special holder between the front seats.
I'm certain it was the same holder that was meant to hold the butt of the shotgun stock.
From where the Butt of the stock landed, just below the level of the seat, the Rifle stuck up to within an inch of the patrol cars ceiling.
There was a plastic cap, like and old film roll canister over the tip, I would assume to keep anything from getting in the Barrel.
The guy left me in his patrol car for an hour, otherwise I might not even remember this.
The Rifle had a Scope, which was really strange, because as far as I know, only SWAT are allowed to use "Sniper" type weapons.
The Dun color of the gun was wrong as well. We were'nt in a Desert, so it did'nt blend in very well.
The Rifle itself was unloaded, but when the prick finally got in the car, he opened a Locked case next to the Rifle, and I saw these.
http://www.evike.com/images/large/dmag-m4-1300-sc-t.jpg
Although I did'nt see a U.S. on them, they were Dun colored as well.
Now, if you can tell me why a Cop would have a Dun colored Rifle, with Dun Colored Clips, if it was'nt his old Service Rifle, what was it?
Some Psycho Cop who thinks he's the "Universal Soldier"?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle#/media/File:M16a4lh6.jpg
This is a perfect copy of what he had except for the Color.
You see that Stock? that Stock is what made me think it was a Military Rifle.
Now it's true that you can mount your Machine on Any stock, but I don't know of many people that keep such a Loooong Rifle in their Car, most look like
http://cdn5.freedomoutpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/AR-15.jpg
and are really short by comparison.
I guess he could've Added all that stuff to the AR15 to make it that long for some Reason, but it certainly was'nt so it could fit in his Vehicle better. :-P
oh! also, this is a picture of a Dun Mare
http://www.springvalleyfarms.com/PilgrimMay18-2010_1.jpg
This is Flat Dark Earth
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Entertainment/gty_stock_dirt_in_hands_thg_130122_wblog.jpg
Dun and FDE are totally different Colors, but appearently the Military is more Stupid then I imagined. Notice the Spelling of both is 3 letters and they still can't get it right.
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Yeah, that's been my point all along. It may very well be a AR15, but this guy had it set up just like the M16 in the picture above.
So he was either using his actual service rifle, or he created a replica that looked just like it.
Remember here, he also claimed he had "Paid for it with Blood".
That would mean he either used it to kill, or used it to defend himself prior to speaking to me.
I don't see why you think it's impossible for him to be using His actual Service Rifle.
I've known a Number of people that kept their Sidearm, especially the old MP sidearm, the one that fires .50 calibre rounds.
Actually, looks like all the M model AP's are .50
BTW. I've gone through and looked at all the Guns on your poll, and change my vote to Sig Sauer P229 - .40 S&W, although, If your going for something that'll knock some one on their @$$, you might wanna consider Wadcutters over Hollowpoints. They cause less Damage, but transfer more Kinetic force.
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http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/919/919778.jpg
This is the Slug for a Wadcutter. The rounds your talking about are Practice rounds, and I would'nt even recommend them for that, as the Inverted shape of the Slug inside the Shell can cause a FTF that blows your hand off.
http://cdn.theboxotruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/e161-03.jpg
The bullet on the left is what a "Wadcutter" is supposed to look like.
Truth is, you can make your own Wadcutters out of Lead Wire.
You have to Cut it in perfectly flat Cylinders, but if you have all the Machinery for taking care of your Firearm, that should'nt be a problem.
You do have a Machine shop right?
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My main reason for suggesting Wadcutters is because Hollowpoints tend to Fragment, whereas the solid slug of a wadcutter does'nt.
Being aware of the law, I'm sure you know that by the Standards of the Geneva convention, only Ball ammo is considered a "Humane" ammunition.
Wadcutters are a comprimise between stopping power, and the kind of Damage that a Fragentile Round can Cause, and Hollowpoints are fragentile.
Yeah, i've seen the pretty pictures of perfect Hollowpoint Blooms too. It's BS, when you shoot some one with Hollowpoints, your shooting to Kill, and the only time you should be doing that is if ALL other options have failed.
Well, you should get a Ammo Stamper. Even if you think Wadcutters are the stupidest thing ever, you should get your own Reloading Bench, and a Work bench with a Vice, if you're working on an Automatic, or Rifle.
Make sure you have these. You may think you can get away with Cleaning your gun just anywhere, but you'll find that a clean, well organized, work bench, with enough room for you to fully Disassemble your Machine, while placing each piece at least 3 inches apart makes things way easier.
That Game
http://store.steampowered.com/app/262410
Gives you a pretty accurate idea of the amount of space you'll need for Disassembling most Firearms.
As absurd as it may sound to you the Boyscout Motto is "Be Prepared", and unless you wanna spend thousands of dollars on Ammo and Replacement parts, your're gonna want to do your own Ammo stamping, and learn where you can buy Parts for your Firearm.
You may not expect it, but not every Barrel is perfect, and all Barrels wear out after a certain number of rounds Fired.
You need to learn to Re-Rifle your Barrels, and when to Replace them altogether due to Wear or Flaws that have caused Stress cracks.
I hope your ready for all of the Fun. :-)
Oh! and the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guncrafter_Industries_Model_No._1#Model_No._3
is standard Issue as far as I know, and yes, it can chamber a .50 but the MP's prefered the Socom
http://herohog.com/images/guns/ammo/44_mag_vs_458_Socom.jpg
That's a little smaller then the Wadcutters I use in my Snubby, but that shell is too long to fit my Snubby. T.T
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The Geneva convention has no Bearing on you?
Then you won't mind if I Spray you with Nerve gas.
I can fire a canister of Nerve gas frome the same gun you fire CS rounds from. The difference, is that cs will make you uncomfortable, Nerve gas will kill you, but at least you'll stop moving.
Police Departments and the FBI are required to use Ball ammo, look it up.
That particular Calibre Bullet was for a Rifle and not a Pistol, and it's not the Shell I was showing you it's the slug.
Here's another one for a Shotgun.
http://www.larryssg.com/images/products/950x450/12-ga-3in-300-gr-winchester-xp3-sabot-slug.jpg
Same grain, although this one is shaped like a Hollopoint, you'll like that.
I hope since your planning on getting into gun fights that no one shoots you
with a Hollowpoint.
You'd suffer a great deal more then was necessary, and be more likely to die, but they always say "Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword".
So, you'll probably take a Hollowpoint to the Chest, and it'll fragment into a dozen pieces and shred your guts so you become Septic.
Course your not afriad to become Septic because you have no idea what that feels like.
Good luck trying not to scream.
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I Always picture this moment at 2.04 mins of this video when a hunter '' needs '' an automatic rifle to shoot deer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C7TA86ZH5Q
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what's with the gun culture in US, seriously, it's just beyond me, I live in Poland, population about 40 mln, I live in a town of about 50 thousand, for last 30 years, do you know how many guns have I seen up close, THREE, one during a school trip to a military base, one during a school trip to police station and one at my friend's house (his dad is a hunter). Do you know how many people that own guns I know or knew in the past (civilians, excluding hunters) ZERO. I kind of know ONE guy whose family member has been shot. 40 mln people, guess how many crimes with firearms where committed here in 2014 - 325! Out of which 22 ended up in death. 22. Not 20 hundreds or 20 thousands. Twenty two. Why would anybody need a gun? Guess it's just deep in some people culture.
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And that gun culture is rather unjustified and founded on specious reasoning. Appealing to a constitutional amendment is meaningless if you fail to understand the context and history of said amendment, and you fail to understand the implications of its language. It may be your "right" because we haven't updated Amendment II of the U.S. Constitution since its ratification, but exercising your right is not always right.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I feel I should point out that your appeals to the 2nd Amendment are terribly weak and easily refutable.
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Like I already pointed out before, your condescending invitation for me to petition is distasteful and absurd. There are far too many gun-toting ultraconservatives who prefer their stupor of appeals to constitutional rights to actually form a cogent argument regarding gun rights. Any and all petitions, campaigns, or attempts at changing this paradigm would be shot down quicker than a burglar in rural South Carolina, and any politician who attempts to facilitate this change alienates most of their constituents. This is why even liberal Democrats are hesitant to actually do something about the egregious gun culture that blights the United States: doing so would be political suicide. You seriously think a nobody like me would gain traction? If that was meant to be a joke, then you sure shot the target.
I don't care if the Supreme Court has already ruled on this. Landmark cases can be overturned, rulings can be struck down, and amendments can be appealed. The ruling only affects current law, but it is neither infallible nor flawless. It's best to not treat them as such.
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...Carry your gun into school campuses? What in the fuck are you on? Don't you even know about all of those campus-shootings through history? Ignore the fact that they obviously had mental issues but it's the fact that they illegally had guns on them in the area. Imagine if it was legal. Give one shot, and the place would be a fucking battlefield(this is a joke in case you're too up-tight to get it). American kids love their firearms and it's horrifying. Thank fucking god for Canada.
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So honest citizens having a chance to defend themselves is fucked up?
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Yes, because carrying guns on a school campus is having a chance to defend yourself. Those campuses, man. They're like the ghetto. Except they're not. Even worse!
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I wonder how much of a success those school shooters would have had (if they even considered following through with their plan after considering people who be armed) if their would be victims had had a chance to retaliate.
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And then they STILL would get in trouble for, y'know, murder(although from what I've learned it depends on the state but common sense would be that murder would be, y'know, still illegal in self defence since it's not equal levels of violence.). What kind of benefit is that? Even then, there's the psychological trauma. Not everyone is made to be a fucking killing machine. Yes, this is reality. No, this isn't a video game.
I bet 90% of the gun owners in the US would hesitate to commit cold, bloody murder regardless the condition.
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I think I should be more clear, I meant to say that potential would be killers would err on the side of caution because going into a venue where people are likely to be concealed carrying means retaliation.
Would be mass shooters would not be able to cause as much damage and this has shown to be true in the past. (I can't seem to recall it completely but there was a guy who holed up in a tower and shot people from above and a few brave civilians returned fire to keep him suppressed until a police response could be had. I'll look up the details and post the source later.)
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@kybaig Fair enough but it's still over-the-line. It could happen anywhere so, what, allow people to carry guns anywhere they want? It might as well be a military-state. EVERYBODY would be carrying their guns expecting violence around every corner because, yes, every has guns. Nobody would be 'chill' in a situation like that.
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EVERYBODY would be carrying their guns expecting violence around every corner because, yes, every has guns. Nobody would be 'chill' in a situation like that.
That's a bold claim but I'm sure you will give an argument to support your claim.
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Yes, because when the military takes over and runs things their way it never has and never will go wrong. Nope. Never.
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People being able to carry guns around means a the military will take over? I am sure you will have good evidence to support your claim.
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if anything, I'm overestimating human capacity for violence. Not everyone is a brain-washed gun-toting 'Merican.
Now you're just being an arrogant douchebag. Enough to be said there because you've be treating anyone who disagrees with you like a pile of dog shit. So, yeah, you're being a fucking asshole and there's no civilized conversations to be had with you. Besides, I already stated that I live in Canada and I was speaking on the logical side of laws. Yes, States in the US have their individual laws. No, I wasn't even talking about your state in specific.
Overall, there's no reason to try and be 'better' and put me on a lower pedestal than you. Again, that makes you an asshole. Not surprising coming from the culture that is so commonly 'advertised' as the US "'Merican" way. If you want to have a CIVILIZED conversation on the logic and reasoning behind human violence and gun laws themselves then go ahead but I doubt you can even stomach it, considering your rude and arrogant attitude. You've also already shown multiple times in this thread that you're 100% pro-gun which is ridiculous and I'd expect a lot of bias.
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Yeah, that shot in the head last week and then I murdered that whole guy's family and got away with it! Glad people don't care about self control and sensible ideals. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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There's no point in trying to fight a battle of attrition and mutual bigotry. I prefer to wage my fight on the intellectual battleground. That's why I've been challenging you. Petitioning some sanctimonious, insincere politician to support their political suicide isn't going to get anywhere. I'd rather challenge my ideological opponents. In doing so, I either proselytize them (and thereby turn the tides) or I expose their bigotry and unexamined thinking. I also run the risk of being defeated myself, in which case I will gladly convert myself so long as I discover it to be the stronger argument.
Calling spineless representatives and uncaring politicians whose number of shits about your interests approach absolute zero is pointless, as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather fight through reason than through rhetoric and change the minds of the constituents than harass those who pretend to represent them.
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Of course I do, but that's pointless to point out.
They're probably not in Texas because it is the most ultraconservative, backward shithole in the country. Sorry you have an antipathy toward an organization, but it doesn't make you any better than them to support a morally bankrupt state.
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So you say they aren't, and then say they are. Are you typically this much of an ideological snake? Claims, especially those assumed to be factually verifiable, are not something to throw around carelessly. That just makes you look like a charlatan whose rhetoric is more empty than the logic which fails to support it.
Sorry, but I can't respect you anymore after these absurd, derisively farcical claims. You're literally advocating for people to go and walk out with loaded guns they just purchased without being tracked or held accountable, without be checked for mental stability, and without receiving the training needed to properly handle the firearm. So what if you're mentally ill, interested in filling your wife and children with lead before sucking the barrel? Buy a gun, it's not like we'll stop you!
With all due respect, are you trolling? Because I refuse to believe you are really this deranged. I know you're from Texas, but this sort of wild west anarchism would literally cost millions of lives.
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I'm from the US my city has over 4 million in it and I've seen drive-bys, muggings, even had knives and guns pulled on me. If you think the whole world is the same and everywhere is safe you are naive. I don't carry a gun, but I sure as hell understand why someone would and I support it.
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My point is: when there's almost zero guns, there are no drive-bys, daily muggings with firearms, it's not a matter of owning a gun because you can defend yourself, if there's almost no guns there's almost nothing to defend yourself from. People always raise the argument that if they had a gun they would have been able to kill the guy that started shooting in a shopping mall, what they can't see is a fact that, if guns where harder to get, there would probably be no shooting at all in a first place. I can understand that you want to feel safe but for someone from Europe, the whole gun craziness is an extremely abstract idea. Sorry bout my grammar;) I think it's all over the place:] Cheers
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Guns will never be hard to get so what's the point of entertaining the idea of no guns at all. Even if guns were banned the amount of guns that already exist is very much apparent. Just to go along with your scenario of no one having guns, there would still be life threatening situations that don't involve guns but you will still need to defend yourself and more then likely unsuccessfully.
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Dear oh dear.
This thread is a blacklist goldmine.
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So defensive! I love this thread, I'll stay thanks.
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Apparently, people are more interested in using this thread as a platform for one's opinions about gun laws and control rather than answer his question. Oh well, I guess that's what you get for asking the forum of a giveaway site for online video games.
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I edited my comment because I posted it before deciding to enter into this discussion. Then, when I did and I began criticizing you and others, I decided to remove my previous post and replace it, since it would otherwise seem sanctimonious of me. I changed my mind and joined into the discussion, so I edited my post as a result. Seeing as you responded to that original post, however, I'll paste it below for context, so others don't get confused and think you're just presuming me:
I don't really get why everyone is being so aggressive toward the OP. I think some of his justifications for gun ownership (such as constitutional right, which completely neglects whether that right is appropriate) and I strongly oppose US laws regarding gun ownership, but I'm not going to attack him for it. I'd love to challenge his views on it, but that is not what he's asking. He's asking for opinions on which gun to purchase. If you don't approve of concealed carry or of his views and justifications, then simply vote the final option in the poll.
Then again, the forums of a giveaway site for online video games is probably not the best place to ask this sort of question. You're better off asking a gun forum or some other place which caters to "gun culture", or just do the research yourself and ask a local expert (such as a dealer or firearms trainer). Asking here (or anywhere which isn't related to guns and isn't full of hyperpatriots) will only catch you flak.
My vote is "You don't need to carry a gun", but I'm a dirty, filthy liberal, so what do I know?
Now, onto responding to your post directly.
I find your opinion about the NRA being "too weak" and your zealous support for the 2nd Amendment to be both disgusting and irreconcilable to my own views. I would consider it to be a travesty for citizens to carry guns on campus or any establishment which is not publicly accessible for a variety of reasons, most notably because it would confuse law enforcement when they attempt to determine the shooter or criminal on a campus. I am born and raised in Texas, mind you, and I currently live in College Station, so it's not like these laws wouldn't affect me. As far as I'm concerned, carrying a weapon on campus should be strictly illegal. Campuses are places of learning and open discourse; intimidating weapons will only stifle free speech and cloud judgment because when a fight breaks out, nobody is going to trust you'll keep your gun tucked away like a responsible adult.
I would gladly challenge your views, but I suspect you are not interested in becoming a proselyte. You probably wouldn't approach the issue open-mindedly, seeing as you appear to have already made up your mind, so it would be pointless for me to argue with you. If you are willing to be intellectually honest and open to discussion, however, then I'll do my best to do the same and we can discuss this. Otherwise, I'll simply not comment.
I would question if those people are actually liberals. Being a liberal is not being a centrist or moderate, and even far left liberalism in the United States is center-left in Europe. I would be mightily surprised to find an actual liberal who supports extremist organizations like Oath Keepers.
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If the NRA is so spineless, then I'm glad they're so popular. Hopefully, if they continue to make compromises, they'll be eventually driven out. Your lamentations are good news to me.
Why, exactly, should one not be stopped and checked if they're openly carrying around a firearm? You are carrying around a weapon, a tool whose sole function is to harm another. I don't see why one shouldn't be checked if one's activities or mannerisms are suspicious.
Of course you have a right to protect yourself. Those are why self-defense laws exist. The right to protect one's self does not imply the right to use excessive force, however, and rarely would you ever be required to use a firearm for protection one's self. There are a multitude of nonlethal options you could choose, from pepper spray to a baton to your own fists and martial arts. Unless your life is in immediate danger, such as a hostile party who currently possesses a gun or knife or other weapon, what justification do you have for using a gun? Nobody is questioning your right to protect yourself, but this right does not have to include the use of excessive or lethal force.
Again, unless you agree that you are willing to change your views, and you agree to approach this discussion in an intellectually honest and open-minded way (something I already do), I have no interest in rehashing and refuting the same weak arguments I've heard before.
Liberalism is a broad term, yes, but mischaracterizing classic liberal libertarians as "liberals" is misleading and deceptive. In common US parlance, a liberal is usually a a modern liberal or social liberal. To call a libertarian a liberal is a misclassification of related, but distinct, terms.
I'm firm in my beliefs because I have examined and developed them into cogent arguments; and they are founded on logic, evidence, and reason. This does not preclude, nor does it imply, that I am unwilling to change these views. All you have to do is convince me with logic, evidence, and reason. If you do not found your beliefs on the same principles, or you are unwilling to change them even when proven wrong, then I won't waste my time. If you do, then let's begin.
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Since when has observations and personal anecdotes alone qualify as valid substantiation for a belief? They're considered logical fallacies and cognitive biases for a reason. Yes, you may have your own personal observations, but that doesn't mean they are accurate or even relevant to your beliefs. I'm glad you have apparently changed your opinions before, but it's a pity you refuse to now. Ideological complacency is the foundation of bigotry. What is the point of holding a belief that can't withstand scrutiny?
If you ever want to actually hone your views, send me a message. Until then, enjoy your Facebook activism.
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As they shouldn't. There is no reason for you to own a semi-automatic rifle. Unless you're interested in shooting up a fucking school, maybe you should keep your metal penis in a case like any reasonable human being.
The day you're shot, probably on-campus, will be a cruel irony. Don't bother responding. I'm done with entertaining your delusions. You're either a troll, or legitimately insane.
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Your condescending attitude isn't appreciated. I know you want to try and look like the upstanding citizen here, but anyone with a brain will see through your thinly-veiled sanctimony.
This is my final response.
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im sure you could hide at least 4 guns n all that fat
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MY personal favorite is the P226 as I like the grip, handle and reliability and the P228 is probably the one I would choose if I were to use one. You mention you were interested in the P228 and P229 and both are great, but you would have to try it out to know which you prefer. Personally I have not used a gun in years, but in the past the P226 was the way to go.
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Hmm, don't have much issue with people owning a gun. Those hollow points however, that's a different story. With those one is saying one wants to go beyond mere self defense and that's not something I'm cool with. Hopefully you won't ever have to use the darn thing so why have bullets designed to create bigger holes?
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Really? I didn't know that point of view, or that New Jersey paradox... ban one and make that the legal one have the same effect you just banned, go figure.
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Hmm, never thought of it like that. But wouldn't it make sense to use a lower caliber FMJ then? Or would that then have too little stopping power and be just about akin to a BBgun?
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Yeah, but there's always a chance that it won't be a threat that gets shot. I'm all for guns but at the same times there's so much that can go wrong with them. Just seems like leaving a smaller wound would be preferable, I mean most people dislike pain so anything, even a graze, should give most people second thoughts. So it just seems to me like getting an FMJ weak enough to remain stuck in someone would be the way to go.
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Yeah but the cops face hardened criminals and it comes with the job. Civilians are just normal people and the threats they may be presented with that require a gun won't all be happy to carry on firing till the last breath. As I said, most people dislike getting shot so I just imagine there are a lot of situations in civilian life where a mere wound will deter a threat, or at least make them flinch giving you a chance for a hit more likely to incapacitate. Not every situation where you will need to whip this gun out will be a firefight to the death.
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Well yeah I do because I can't imagine most civilians having to worry about each bullet they fire being a permanently stopping blow. Most civilians that have a gun would hope they never need to use it and thus there's no point in making sure it could stop an elephant.
And if you're not in the average civilian category then I can't imagine why you're asking for gun advice on a gaming forum.
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Nah, not naive. It's just the one case where this eternal pessimist is turned into an optimist. That and I'm pretty scared of guns, both getting shot and the other side, largely thanks to the laws here. Heck I could see jail time for braining a home invader with a cricket bat...so I certainly wouldn't want to obliterate anyone's guts. The chance of justice not being on my side is incredibly great which makes having a gun pointless to me.
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I know. Sorry man, hadn't meant to rile you up. As I said I'm fine with people carrying guns. I just didn't like the idea of definite lethal force thanks to the bullet type. It just seemed to be quite literally overkill.
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Less collateral damage because bullet will not go through target and hit someone else?
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Didn't think of that. I was thinking of the damage to the person being shot since one wouldn't want an accidental shot/misfire causing explosive damage. And most people dislike getting shot enough that any bullet through a shoulder would give them second thoughts, no need to wipe the shoulder out completely.
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That PTSD thing is something I'll never understand. How killing someone that hates me and wants to kill me would give me grief is utterly beyond me. But hey, I've never been in such a situation and hopefully never will despite it being a daily threat in my country (and thus something I constantly think about, what I'd do in the case of a home invasion style robbery, not that I own a gun so that's no option).
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Doesn't the PSTD come from the collateral damage rather than every kill? I mean there's a difference between killing a grown man intent on killing you and killing someone who you thought was a grown man who turns out was just a kid that may even have been coerced into that situation.
Well that and the training itself, being far more paranoid with regards to what is and isn't a threat and stressing about using lethal force in uncalled for situations because of those reflexes you mentioned.
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Yeah, but why would killing the scum of the earth be traumatic? It's only when you realize that what you obliterated wasn't the scum of the earth or if you fall victim to the scum of the earth that trauma would arise.
In other words if you make the wrong split decision, but if you made the right one you should give yourself a pat on the back and be on your merry way, not traumatized.
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Well using your guns at the shooting range should be a nice hobby! But carrying one... is there too much criminality on your city/town? If the answer is yes, carry the one you can carry the most comfortably and with low recoil in case you ever need to use it, but I hope you don't.
Don't draw a gun unless you intend to use it, and don't carry one unless you intend to draw. Be safe air1.
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i have no knowledge of guns but reading this made me laugh allot
just wondering why not use something common like a police standard gun (i think its glock)
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well good luck with your choice if it was me i would just go with what feels the nicest in my hand and in holster. no need to carry something uncomfortable to show you how manly you are or something.
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90% of what you said passed over my head,sorry. what i meant is just get what feels nice to you
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