It would be a lie to say that you summed it up nicely, but I really agree with the point you made :)
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Am i the only one just finding this very onesided, "nobody" ?
Suppose someone has a lucky week they might win 4-10 games, they might have gotten themselves a bundle or games through other means, maybe even get a few gifts from friends (christmas anyone?) Last christmas itself i got so much that alone could last me 1-2 years, so should all of we stop entering then, because we already got enough? Won't stop the +1 er's or bots.
Aside from people having jobs, school, family. There just is only that much time in a day and somehow certain people expect you to have played all your wins in a certain amount of time.
Yeah sure some will just enter for the cards and +1's, doesn't mean "everybody" will never play their wins eventually.
If you really seem to have a problem with it, why continue gifting?
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I stopped buying games for SG months ago. I just had a pretty damn large stock left, which is now dwindled to 120 standard game keys and 430 HOG keys. (I bought thousands of HOG keys over a year.)
You can disagree with it. Those are my thoughts only. A rant, even. But it still points out a very obvious and tangible problem of the SteamGIfts user base. One of many problems, but a problem nonetheless.
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I agree in theory anyone that enters a giveaway should have the intention of atleast trying it out (not even have to finish it) eventually, even if that's in 20 years.
I disagree only with how you are checking, it will never show how much will have that intention and will try out their won games eventually, and particularly how you say everybody, it isn't everybody.
The new point system will hurt not just the game hoarders but also the enthousiasts. It won't stop people using bots because if someone got 5 or so, what's stopping them from making more?
Autojoin script users are supposedly getting take care of, but it's based on how much and how fast someone would enter giveaways, those users can just tweak their scripts offcourse.
Like the whole captcha thing some people want, thinking it will help out too against bots, no it only annoys people that don't use bots.
Those are the real problems on this site and still won't be taken care of, not a few enthousiasts that spend maybe "a whole day" on here entering things, points didn't go down a bit, it went down alot (in cases when a bundle comes out).
Cg never posted a poll, he just did the changes, yet in a poll someone made, it clearly showed a majority having been against it.
And yeah as others posted below, there is playing appreciated.
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Noone can force you to stop entering, but you can at least decide: if I'm working on my backlog, then on won games. I only started playing won games at the start of the year, but in the meantime I have tried the majority and enjoyed some more than I'd have expected. At the same time I didn't play my favourite multi player game (Rocket League,though I'm not that good at it) and ignored the wishlist games I've got by bundles and high discounts. I mean, I nearly own 6k games now (more than that if you include removed and other DRM games. I'm buying more bundles now as I had bought, before I became active here. I haven't played several famous franchises yet, though I own them mostly (e.g. Resident Evil, Final Fantasy). But I noticed that gifts should be played. And if I'd feel the urge to play my backlog AAAs, I'd stop entering.
Of course I'm giving more than I receive, but that shouldn't be an excuse to just idle wins and dont even think about playing them.
I didn't check your stats, Lugum, so this reply is only based on your posting.
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I get you and indeed a noble thought, but as long as there are botters and people just entering for cards or a +1 then those games just go to those (or another spectrum, people with 300 wins and like no sents).
I think like many also hope they will be blessed that they will have many many years ahead of them and can grow old (and healthy) in that they can play all their games, or atleast try.
Maybe for some people it's also just like a library full of books, a collection knowing it's there and yours whenever you want to read (play) something (think of all the games that got deleted without prior notifications).
My steam account is 9 years old though i only started using it 4 years ago, and i gained over 1000 games a year, that's a few a day, needless to say offcourse that's overwhelming and noone can finish a few games a day.
I even tell a good friend of mine that just gifted me cuphead, that he shouldn't, and let me finish some of my games first, yet he does it anyway and then i feel obliged to start playing his, and then i see a bundle and want to try something out, then i win something here, and so it goes on and on.
My steam collection is only a fraction of what i have, and i believe in preservation, so many games from barely 10 years ago that are already lost, some will say "big deal" but i recently wanted to replay Simon the sorcerer 4 and 5 and Everlight (or as i call it Simon 6) for example, games from 2007 and 2009, nowhere to be bought anymore, can't even pirate it but i still had copies, and i am glad i had, .
Most probably have (plenty of) other hobbies, and care alot less about games, but gaming always been pretty much my only hobby, and will always stay one.
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I totally understand you in regards of the collection and other platforms/hobbies. And I experienced those winners with 0 sent, too (we dont know their financial situation, but level 1 should be reachable for everyone). I really hope that cg's plans to solve the bot issue will work out as well. But "Bots win, so can I" shouldn't be the motto. That's comparing with the worst and you're far away from that.
If you feel obliged to play Cupheads or a wishlisted game from a bought bundle, just do it. But that shouldn't be a reason for 0 % won games with 1 attachment (and I dont think that your stats are that worse).
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I don't really understand your last sentence (and i won't deny my stats could be better though, and i am gonna work on it) and my achievements have all been reset btw.
Anyhow same reply about the "bots win, so can i." thing applies below.
Noone with over 3000 games (let alone 5000+) in their collection will pretty much ever play them all, and will have a backlog, should all those people just stop entering? I think that be drastic.
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There are people with 0 % played and I don't even use that script very often. While I'm not blacklisting for that, I could understand GA creators who do it. If you don't have 0 % played, noone could confront you with this argument. Of course, some users might have higher expectations. So I meant that you shouldn't feel forced to play a won game (and instead play Cupheads or enjoying your other hobbies) and you shouldn't stop entering GAs, only since you're enjoying something else at that time, but if you have time just play a won game and thus show those users who are interested in these stats that you know that games are for playing and that you intend to do so (as LastM called it, 'gratitude').
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But you are saying you shouldn't feel forced to play a won game on the other hand try them when you have time, but that's exactly how it goes when you have the intention to play a game you won, then someone else gifts you something or you get something yourself.
You can say for example i go play cupheads, then a won game, but no then i already have x other games from tremorgames/bundles or friends (if you told them to stop for awhile, even though i still very appreciate it offcourse), what i mean it's an everlasting cycle. And i think that is a story how it goes for many people.
And well my other problem last few months i maybe played TF2 more then i should have, but it's something i am good at and unlike my real life, actually feel like a winner sometimes when i do good.
I am definitely going to work on putting more won games in the front of my backlog.
Actually i am holding back on Cupheads for 2 weeks (i will atleast try it for an hour later on) so i can get the most out of Elder Scrolls Online's subscription days, something that i won here..
And i told that friend about that, and to give me some time, but he still asked me today how Cupheads was..
So there is always a feeling of being forced every time.
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Well, TF2 can surely be a timesink like every other good MP game, but with the backlog (not only won games) I decided to let RL go. You're getting the same good feeling after completing a SP game and making progress on your backlog.
My real life friends arent gamers, so I don't get game gifts from them, but I understand that it's your top priority. Bought/bundle games on the other hand can wait a while.. they're not running away from your library. :D
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I kinda disagree with the same feeling of completing a sp game though. ;)
In TF2 when you push your team mates to push the cart, or when you win because you got those nasty sentries when the rest didn't (i don't see having the most points as being the best player, someone can have over 200 kills but if noone gets the sentries and pushes the cart to win..)
Not how everyone plays it, but it is how i do it. So your motivation, choices, and strategy.
While sp games normally require you to do what the game wants it (depending on genre), or the notion of having finished one, making it a different gratification.
Also have another quirk btw, of watching tv shows while playing games windowed, though not every game allows that, but i learned to do some and just listen to the audio of a show (depending on what i am watching).
Well while i call them friends, I know one person from USA and one from Australia, never met either of them in real life, they are a long way from europe which is a shame because i think we could have been good friends in real life too.
Anyway enough about me :p, but i just can imagine people in similar situations and like always not everything is so black or white, but a bit grey, versus the "nobody plays" the op started with.
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talgaby already explained that he only meant 'nobody' in a certain group of users. Of course, there's grey.
Yes, it's a difference between the feeling after successful PvPing and progress on the backlog. But both is satisfying. And everyone knows that PvPing is a timesink just like MMOs. Yet you are able to set priorities and 'bear the consequences' (e.g. currently enjoying only one game or none at all, then why not take a break for entering, too).
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Not just MMO's, but any single player rpg games would be time consuming too, the time it takes to finish 1 rpg you could play a bunch of hog or indie games.
As to not entering, check my rogue league example below.
Since the new point system there is just a whole lot less to enter anyway.
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so should all of we stop entering then, because we already got enough? Won't stop the +1 er's or bots.
In other words, if others do it, it's ok for me to do it too.
With all due respect, but it's this kind of mob mentality that leads to so many problems in our society... Just because other people are doing it - for the wrong reasons - it doesn't mean the rest of us have to too. Besides, if you say that "you've got enough", that yes, it probably mean that you should stop for a while.
I know it's not easy, I've been there. I used to enter every possible GA without even thinking. It took me sometime to realize how selfish it is to steal someone's else chance to play a game, just because I want 30 cents worth of cards or how ungrateful it is to waste someone else's money. In the end, the way we treat our wins/gifts shows a lot about us.
Don't take this personally, you're definitely not the only one to think like that. I'm merely contesting your argument.
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I genuinely enter for games with the intention to play it someday (and yes that might even be a few years) versus people/botters that never will, there is a difference, so i am not "doing something too".
Same as a game gifting website and society are two completely different things, and with both also have more (completely seperate) problems that are creating the so called mob mentality as you put it
I meant enough in a relative way, like for some 100 games are enough while for others thousands.
Noone is every telling people like Zelghadis to stop, no on the contrary people keep getting amazed and look up to him because on how much he won, someone with even more chances that he will not be able to ever play all of his wins.
Also not a attack against him at all, but just showing a contrast here, yet other people are suggested to stop winning for a bit?
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I beg to differ about your first argument. The lesser evil, is still an evil, for example. If you're not certain that you can play a game anytime soon, then maybe it's time to let someone else take your position. Btw, the time of bots/autojoiners seems to coming to an end tho. Don't worry.
Every community, even an online gifting community, is an addendum of our society.
Quite the opposite. For that, I carry his blacklist. With pride.
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If you say and count every scripter, botter but also leechers and those that win "in your eyes enough" (plus anyone else i might be forgetting) putting everyone on the same evil pile, that's your opinion.
If you want everyone of them to stop entering (but also meaning people that giveaway stuff like me or zelghadis that atleast maintain a positive ratio) then there will be very very few people left.
Society mweh there will always be evil people, good people, everyone with different definitions of it.
I come here to gift some, win some, trying to atleast maintain my ratio, do some jigidi's and sometimes pitch in or help on the discussion board, not think about being part of some society, let alone being considered evil.
Maybe you did, but i seen so many comments that made him look like he was someone to be looked up to.
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You're not evil, mate, it's just an allegory. What I meant is that, just because botters/autojoiners do something, it doesn't mean that it's ok and therefore, joining just to take it from them, isn't a good enough reason to win a game. The only reason to join a giveaway should be that you're interested in the game.
In a perfect world, every game would be won by someone who wants to play it, but things aren't perfect. I don't want everyone to stop entering all GAs, I do wish though, that people who don't wanna play a game would stop taking someone else's chance to enjoy said game for 30 cents worth of cards. I also wish that those who have bitten more than they can chew could realize that maybe, just maybe, it's time to bite more slowly for a while in order to finish chewing.
In regards to the behavior you described, there is nothing to look up to there.
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Fair enough, but i always stated that too, people should only enter if ithey got an interest for trying/playing the game, we absolutely agree on that.
And In a perfect world cards and achievements would both be gone, but won't happen.
As i told Myrsan, personally i am going to put wins more on the front of my backlog and lessen TF2, i don't think i am going to stop entering though, not because botters still do, but because i'd have interest in such games.
Suppose i want for example Rocket League, someone is holding a whitelist giveaway and thus increasing your odds, i would want to play it someday but in your eyes i should focus on my backlog, not enter but when i tackled the game in my backlog, and have time for Rocket League, i am not going to see a giveaway for Rocket League (let alone one with good odds), i understand your whole view though.
Just have to agree to disagree a bit on that, not like with the new system we can enter alot still anyway.
Well what i said everyone have their own definitions of good or evil, look at how some see Che Guevara as a hero (or wear a t-shirt without knowing who he was or what he did) and to others a man who did bad things.
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Am i the only one just finding this very onesided, "nobody" ?
No. I'd agree that the rant is justified on average, but the absolutist talk is off-putting to those who do play their wins. On the other hand, I'd think over a year is a rather long time to get around to playing a win. (He says, while knowing he won't get around to his Shadowrun win in the immediate future.) (A purchase is another matter, that's up to you and your value of money vs. scarcity of an especially good sale, e.g., tier 1 Humble Bundle. But someone else's purchase?)
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SG should swap places with "Playing Appreciated" so there will be a small group of people who won't play their wins and the majority who will.
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Why not do giveaways on Playing Appreciated then? They seem like the go-to solution for most users on SG who care about people playing their games. Or maybe just maintain and do giveaways for a whitelist of people that you know play their wins.
Every time I see topics like this it makes me feel bad for having fallen behind on playing my wins. Must play more damnit!
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Because that group is a very small patch that cannot even hide the actual problem. Its existence also means that those few who actually do play their wins congregate and segregate themselves from the rest, and with that they do not solve the underlying issue, they just wall themselves off from it.
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True, but what else can you do? If there's a good solution I'm sure you could get a decent number of users to rally behind you on it and maybe get CG to try it out.
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Change mindset. Teach people that gratefulness after getting a gift does not equal only saying thanks and throwing it in the corner. Evoke the damn child in them on the Christmas/hannukkah/whatever morning of getting a new toy. Whatever. It is a lot more complex socio-psychological problem rooted way outside SteamGifts just people really want to pretend as if this doesn't exist or just write it off as some by-product of consumerism.
PA is for those who already wish to play their games. But I am talking about people where this thought never crossed their minds. PA will help nothing with that. It cannot magically enlighten the hoarding-only users, they have to come to this realisation on their own.
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Not that I disagree, but looking at it in that way is not too far from saying it's unsolvable. Sometimes if you look at things in such a broad way it does more harm then good because as an individual, without the political/financial/social clout to change society, you'll end up feeling defeated before even doing anything.
Look at something like 'Toy For Tots' for instance. It's a great service, one I believe has been a boon to everyone involved since its inception. That said, if we had statistics about how many of those kids actually played with the toys they were given, and for how long, how would things change? If we found out most of them hardly spend any time on the toys and instead spend their time playing tag or on jungle gyms instead, should people stop gifting toys because of it? Isnt it worth it just so long as you know that some of them, even if very few, really did have a wonderful time thanks to your and others generosity?
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Even if it's unsolvable, why not even trying to get some minds changed?
Had to look up that campaign,because I've never heard of it before. I agree with you that the original motivation for gifting/donating should be free of restrictions, but you would also check what a NGO does with the money and if they're trustworthy before donating, wouldn't you? And while the recipients in your example are kids, most SG users should be at least old enough to know what they're doing when entering a GA.
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I found that mindset always a bit irritating. Personally, I think it is fine that the gifter should be allowed to expect that their gifts are played. You can't really compare it with a normal gifting process to family or friends. There your gift is a symbol of appreciation for the person which you know and like.
But on Steamgifts you don't know the recipient before hand and the reason some people give away is because they appreciate the gift/game. Additionally, recipients don't get anything which may be chosen poorly. They decide themselves what they get gifted by entering said giveaway. As such, I think it is only fair to expect for games to be tested after winning as the game is the core of the whole process. Just wanted to add this as general statement, not specifically to you. I just remembered it as I read that one line.
And additionally to the "we play it later, maybe even in years" fraction. Maybe it is true. But ask yourselves: Is the speed at which you aquire new games higher or lower than games you played? How is the ratio? Because most people will never be able to beat the backlog as it just grows and grows so be realistic about that. And if people ever slow down on aquiring new games it most likely means they have lost interest in gaming anyway.
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Granting that your goal is a worthy one, do you honestly think that posts of this sort will contribute to achieving that goal in any way?
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No. I do not even know where did you get the feeling from. The post's title is my thoughts and it is in the generic section, not the suggestions one. :)
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While I agree to an extent with some of the sentiments in your original post, you can't force someone to be grateful. Nor can you expect the entire community to have the same ideals as you. The problem of people hoarding, not playing their games, etc is not going anywhere.
I disagree that Playing Appreciated is a walled garden / "segregation" from the problem. It is a subset of the community that is open to all, where giveaway creators who want their games to be played can share games, and those who want to play the games they win can participate freely. The "underlying problem" will never be solved.. I think we should come to terms with that.
I still do public / forum giveaways, but I also have increasingly put more giveaways that I want people to enjoy in PA and I've been happy with the results.
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There's one clear and vital flaw in your OP, Talgaby. You go out from the fact that all people should think like you do on SG but that's really not the case. It's called diversity. I have only send 4K giveaways out and the only check I ever do after I send the giveaway(s) is to look if the winner activated his or her key(s) to his or her own Steam account and if so, then it's ok for me and then that also means that they are not my gifts anymore but they are the gifts of the winners now and they can play whatever and whenever they like on their own Steam account. All within the SG rules and guidelines and not bounded by imaginary and undocumented SG rules. Individual SG groups can have their internal group rules but they are not above SG rules, at least to date.
I'm adapting to this new points system, it's as anything else that is new. It's just a state of mind to adapt one’s self to a new situation, as I do have points like anyone else on SG. But I would like to see some adjustments to the new point system like for example getting ones points back from deleted giveaways and maybe a few points more\hour. And what I very much would like to see is a community poll with a clear question and an equally clear yes and no answer to that question so that the back and forth tennis between the different sides in this global SG points conflict can have an indication what SG users think, based on the vote of mostly active SG users.
Now I'm just waiting for the usual resident trolls to pop up and do their thing and of course totally not because of them having ulterior motives and thoughts about me and especially my ethnicity and religion.
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You go out from the fact that all people should think like you do on SG but that's really not the case.
cough:
"My (lengthy) thoughts"
:)
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As I said there's diversity on SG and every SG user can make giveaways and has and can spend his or her points.
I know, otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you, here.
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I'm against community poll this time xD
99% sg users don't even read forums and don't really understand how new points system is changing their win chances. CG should decide. But only AFTER collecting data from idk - one month.
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We know that only a limited amount of the total number of SG users are active on SG, besides the giveaways. I'm going out that those who could vote would be the users who are not only active in the giveaways but also the discussions.
That time frame (one month) sounds right and it also has been put forward by other SG users, so people can get used to\adapt to\try out the new system. And of course very much like: my giveaways my rules, your giveaways your rules sentence, this is CG his site; so they are his rules\decisions.
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Now I'm just waiting for the usual resident trolls to pop up and do their thing and of course totally not because of them having ulterior motives and thoughts about me and especially my ethnicity and religion.
Why is it always a matter of trolling, ulterior motives, and racial or religious hatred to you whenever someone disagrees with you? Perhaps they simply disagree with you.
I'm going to be honest - to most people, saying that sort of thing is a complete cop-out and a cheap way to dismiss the opinions with which you disagree. It's both childish and passive-aggressive. If you expect people to ever take you seriously, stop cheapening everyone's opinion by tossing up your religious or ethnic shield. Not every disagreement is an attack on your person, nor is it racism or even trolling. And yes, most people know by now that it's why you are sure to let everyone know what religion you follow and post about it daily. No one else on these forums does it. No one.
Oh, and in point of fact, the statement I've quoted above from you is trolling. Look it up, or at least stop using the word until you know what it means. I'd also advise some maturity and learning to cope better with those with whom you disagree.
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You play-acting doesn't impress me and as I said against one of your buddies recently:
I do not know who you are but I do know what you are.
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My goal in life, believe it or not, is not to impress you. You also clearly have no idea who or what I am. If you knew who or what I am, you'd realize how ridiculous you sound.
But hey, whatever. Every time you post that crap, you're the only one who looks silly. It's become like some demented signature you attach to your every comment to deflect anyone you dislike or who disagrees with you. Like I said, no one else does that. I was just trying to spare you some continued embarrassment, but apparently you don't mind it, so it's all on you.
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Still looking silly there, bub.
And stop stalking my Steam profile. It's creepy.
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You have a weird OCD with synonyms. Have a nice and pleasant day.
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You really should wipe before your own porch first
I do not know who you are but I do know what you are.
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Clichés aren't your strong suit, either. Stick with synonyms; they're what you're good at. :)
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No worries, I know what your strong suits are. Btw you haven't used your typical insults, foul language and rude manners for five (5) posts now, very atypical of you. Are you by any chance sick or not feeling well? ;-)
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While you revert into your double faced charade, again. :-)
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Two-faced charade? No. I genuinely think you're hilarious. :)
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What I find way more hilarious is how you play people on SG and of course your regular white knight to the rescue routine. :-)
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Now who's being rude and ill-mannered?
What amazes me is that you don't see what's going on - that you're doing all the things you claim to hate in others on SG so much.
Remember me telling you that you look silly several times? It wasn't a "two-faced charade." It's something called honesty. Even someone your age is still capable of learning (I hope). That's precisely why I posted what I did in my initial comment. Now go play a game and stop making a fool of yourself. I'd suggest one of your wins, as others have suggested.
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It's getting very tiresome but however hard you try to play me it won't work but I do have some SG friends you played.
It's something called honesty.
That's very hilarious indeed that someone like you is talking about honesty. You would do great in politics.
Now go play a game
Or maybe I just play whatever and whenever I like on my own computers and game accounts.
and stop making a fool of yourself.
Have you looked in the mirror as of late?
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Again -- you're being ill-mannered, rude, dishonest, hateful, and trolling -- all the things you supposedly dislike.
Two-faced charade huh? Sweep your own porch, huh? Is it sinking in yet? Probably not.
Anyway, keep spewing bullshit about me. Anyone who'd listen to you is no one who matters to me. The people who matter to me on SG know I'm none of the things you say.
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ill-mannered, rude, dishonest, hateful, and trolling
Two-faced charade huh? Sweep your own porch, huh? Is it sinking in yet? Probably not.
Thank you very much for showing of what you really are, again and again.
Anyway, keep spewing bullshit about me. Anyone who'd listen to you is no one who matters to me. The people who matter to me on SG know I'm none of the things you say.
Actually I heard how you played those SG users, from them and I was shocked to hear to what extent you can play someone...
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I don't play people. I play games. You should try it some time. ;)
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I don't play people.
That's not what those SG users said. You could be such a fine politician especially around election time. ;-)
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Not talking about you but out of SG experiences, my own and the ones in general, those who say or write the word cop-out during a discussion are the ones who only have insults and playing people left in their bag.
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That doesn't change the fact that I know what he is because: " I'm one of the most lowest lifeforms on the whole of SG " and you really don't know his ulterior motives behind this.
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Enough. Both of you need to chill out or take it to another place. Bickering here is of no benefit.
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Enough. Both of you need to chill out or take it to another place. Bickering here is of no benefit.
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You're the second person to bring up something that was dropped (at least by me) over a day ago.
But you're right. I should just allow this person to keep falsely screaming "Nazi!" everywhere he goes. It's been going on for a year and a half now, and it's personally insulting, not to mention utterly disgusting and vile. He insists I blacklisted him for being Jewish, which couldn't be further from the truth. There are 136 people on my blacklist - he is but one, and he was blacklisted for what I deemed to be overly rude comments in other threads over the years.
Imagine if your best friend of 18 years were Jewish, or if your grandfather risked his life as a tank operator in WWII to protect and liberate the Jews, and then you you're being called a Nazi. I'm half Irish, half Native American, for fuck's sake. I couldn't be a "Nazi" if I wanted to be, and I'm tired of it being insinuated here or elsewhere.
The worst thing I've said here in this entire chain of comments is that what he does looks "silly", and it does. I've bitten my tongue long enough about this situation. Suspend me if you deem it necessary, but I simply refuse to sit idly by and be bad-mouthed at that level on these forums.
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You're the second person to bring up something that was dropped (at least by me) over a day ago.
You were right to drop it. Knowing when to keep one's mouth shut is a valuable skill. And yet, when I post a "cease and desist" warning, you start right back up, again.
I will try to be as clear as I can about this. If someone is being annoying or picking a fight with you, everyone else reading the forum is well aware of it. You do not need to point it out. You do not need to rebut it. Nobody cares whose mother was insulted first, nor is it anyone's job to "handle it" aside from Support Staff. If you cannot summon up the dignity to ignore such childish displays, reply with a singular "Shine on" or the equivalent and skip to the next author. If you are leaving more than one reply to such nonsense, you are contributing to the problem.
And arguing with the Mod is never going to improve matters. If we have been forced to wade into the middle of an argument, we are already in a bad mood.
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I can't really understand why the stuff allows your year-long passive-aggressive behaviour, badly hidden bullying and incredibly judgemental attitude. And we're again at a point that you make a comment about in a random topic and you can't stop yourself from taking a poke at your imagined or real "enemies" and "haters" while upfront playing the ethnicity and religion card, setting up the victim card for any possible comment that doesn't agree with you. Not every hates jews or people from israel. But preaching, condescending people who play humble and generous while taking a malicious stab at people whenever they can is not a behaviour that should be the accepted norm. But hey, sending out 4000 games excuses your behaviour or that you treat your wins as part of your collection, never ever touching them at all I'm very curious what would be the community's opinion about you without the thousands of giveaways manipulating their opinions.
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The real issue is that you are a bunch of entitled little brats who cannot think about anything else but hoarding.
That's pretty much it. Entitlement is the key word there. So many people complain that they cannot enter all the giveaways from Humble Bundle, well if you want them so badly, buy them, and if you cannot buy them, be glad that some people are willing to offer a chance to get it for free, instead of complaining that you can't seize all the chances.
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Anyone else see the irony that on a giveaway site you're told to buy it instead?
(Which I infact did last humble, since I caught it on a low bta since I was waiting for its launch since the new point system doesnt work well with surprises. Thanks SG?)
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And that's coming from a moderator.. plus his true thoughts thinking we are just entitled little brats, surprised he still wants to mod us.
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Feel free to shit on my Steam profile about it, I know you enjoy that
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And i know you enjoy being abusive, aggresive and hostile on mine. (both then and now your quote just shows your overal thoughts on people).
No you aren't worth my time anymore.
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please don't take that attitude as representative of the SG community. Many of us appreciate the time and effort the mods put in and are grateful you do it
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plus his true thoughts thinking we are just entitled little brats
if the cap fits wear it
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Who cares that he's a mod? Moderators are here to suspend rule breakers. Nothing else.
You don't shed your personality when you become mod, you still can share your opinions, present your arguments. And you're not banned from showing it. Only thing is that moderators should show certain degree of propriety. To not be passive-agressive while writing, trying to win ideological arguments with "I'm a mod, so I am right" shit etc.
And you have to be able to separate your personal opinions and preferences from "work". So when I'm moderating comment section in one of big polish gaming sites I don't delete comments that state Mass Effect Andromeda is shit! just because I have different opinion or I don't like certain user, as they like to spam from time to time here and there.
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You don't know what happened, but i won't go dragging it out here for you to give an answer to that question.
But some people here know, and it just shows how people with such a stance shouldn't be a mod.
Compare it to a person who hates people, but you put him in a store selling stuff, constantly around people, you can say it's his job, but is he/she at a good position (even if she/he volunteered)?
In the beginning here there was a mod who also was abusive to alot of people here on the forum, if you look back enough plenty of that can still be read, i don't think many remember that one, or are too new here, yet he was allowed to remain a mod until he/she quit.
"To not be passive-agressive while writing, trying to win ideological arguments with "I'm a mod, so I am right" shit etc" Let's just say you hit the nail right on the head.
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If you think about Falcon then I remember them, even if only vaguely.
Still it doesn't change my statement.
I'm standard user and I could write exactly the same thing as Temple did, as I agree with them in 100%. Does it means that I attack you, as you clearly showed that Temple is bad mod by writing stuff like this? The point is that mods can't use their power to oppress people who they don't like. If it's the case it should be brought up to CG in some way. Temple comment was as much generic as possible. Only fact that you have some history with them brought your point "mods shouldn't have opinions like this". Just like semi-spammy sarcastic threads made by Mully got her suspended, as certain anonymous users felt attacked. Only few people knew what it was really about, most thought it's another funny (or not) thread made by Mully.
I could work in shop, heck I could work in kids shop. And I don't like kids, I really don't. But it doesn't mean that I would be bad employee just because I don't like to take care of them or make them food. I can find toy for them just fine. I just won't go after them mumbling "oh what sweet little baby *.*". Sure, I wouldn't enjoy my work to the fullest, but at the same time I wouldn't walk around making snarky comments or trying to make them sad or harm them in any way.
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Probably Falcon. I am not here long enough to have experienced that person, i was shown some examples but i forgot the name, been a few months.
Do you really think CG would lift a finger against one of his staff? No. As per the same example with the insulting staff member in the beginning here who took a big load of CG's work, so it was allowed.
Don't you think i didn't sent in a support ticket? Where did you think that went?
I think you want to say tempete, not temple, i never said because of such comments alone he is a bad mod.
I meant the overall of that comment, my interaction with him but also stories i heard from others.
Maybe my reaction could be sarcastic in the same style as Mully f.e but likewise instead of ignoring something or react differently "then post your shit" that didn't happen.
You completely ruin the analogy, i mean the person working in the shop would be the mod, if customers yell at you, even being abusive, would any shopping clerk yell back or hit them?
Well they could but get their ass fired. Same goes for you everyone is different, you stay civil, same as plenty of other mods here, some can lose their temper. I been a mod elsewhere i know how it goes.
Still already wasted enough time on it then i said i would, isn't worth it.
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i mean the person working in the shop would be the mod, if customers yell at you, even being abusive, would any shopping clerk yell back or hit them?
If you're doing that outside of the shop, you shouldn't be too surprised if that happens.
I also don't need you to put words in my mouth and make me look like some sort of misanthrope by extending my thoughts on a subset of SG users to the entire humanity.
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Because you hide yourself already with the words on your profile to not put any sg stuff on your proifle, yet there is no real point in forming any discussion with you either on here.
Are you really open to any civil discussion with any one? No you aren't, it is basically your generic reply "to piss off" and "take your shit elsewhere", back then, and now, that makes you mod unworthy, i never read one comment of you that wasn't mean or sarcastic, but friendly.
Plenty of mods here that are reasonable and open to discussion, like Khalaq and Keo.
Still doesn't justify your aggresive and abusive behavior like you did, while i never said one mistakenly word, i wasn't the one with the name calling, i still have the pictures to prove it.
You have a very short temper, and several people here know that by now.
I don't want to keep rehashing this out on the forum, i was already done with this 5 replies ago if it wasn't to answer mskotor, i am done with you and probably you with me.
It was your comment too that rubbed some people the other way here, not mine.
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Because you hide yourself already with the words on your profile to not put any sg stuff on your proifle
That's pretty much standard policy for all staff, in fact it's even pointed out in the guidelines. You overstepped clear boundaries.
Are you really open to any civil discussion with any one?
What's not civil about this one ?
i still have the pictures to prove it.
I know, the screenshot conveniently missing your initial comment. Keep up the victim act, and keep telling yourself you don't have your share of responsibilities in what happened.
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No because atleast other staff members have the guts to have an open discussion on here, instead of the hiding like you do.
You are only talking with me because someone stepped on your toes, and it be foolish to use the same responses and words you used on my profile, because then it would show everyone your true persona.
You could have also chosen to just ignore the whole thing, avoid this discussion, but you don't.
I thought you would bring that up again about the picture not being complete, and as i said then, i asked you something in a polite way, something i thought wouldn't be relevant to add to the support ticket.
Nothing was cut out because "it would be convenient" for me if you say i even said 1 abusive foul word against you, or even dragged it out of you to make those foul and nasty comments like you did, then you would be openly and flat out lieing or have some very bad memory, be truthful.
Not even after you called me names did i say one to you, i kept cool and you know it.
Right after that i got someone else adding me saying he encountered the same thing with you (and yes you claim it was also just his fault).
I can take a punch but the things you said made me feel so nasty, and that near a period of christmas, where people are supposed to be peaceful to eachother.
I can post the screenshot if you want and think you got nothing to hide, let whoever wants to see it be the judge of it, or we can drop this discussion (again).
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instead of the hiding like you do.
What ? When ? From what ? I'm right here.
But coming from someone who did not reply directly to me, but instead to someone who did so he could talk about me, I can't take that accusation very seriously.
it be foolish to use the same responses and words you used on my profile, because then it would show everyone your true persona.
Of course it would be, the context isn't the same. Guess what, I also act differently when I am at work, when I'm with friends I've known for a long time, when I'm meeting new people...
everyone adapts their behaviour based on the current social context, so I don't see the point you're trying to make.
You could have also chosen to just ignore the whole thing, avoid this discussion, but you don't.
It goes both way, you could have avoided a lot of things too.
Right after that i got someone else adding me saying he encountered the same thing with you (and yes you claim it was also just his fault).
Yes, you mentioned him before, and if you check his profile again you can see that he is banned (not just permanently suspended) because he was so batshit insane that we had to ask cg to do something to stop the flood of tickets copiously insulting anyone who dared explaining to him that his suspension was warranted, and not motivated by some imaginary argument we had on the EU in the past as he claimed (as if I ever talked about politics here).
If you consider that a reliable source, alright then.
(edit : got things mixed up, he is not banned, but he still went from a 5 days suspension to a permanent one for the reasons above)
It's not like it would be complicated anyway to find for any mod here a bunch of people claiming that they are an horrible person abusing their power. People don't like getting suspended and some cannot assume their responsibilities and will shift the blame (like when after letting something slide a couple times I eventually take action, it's unfair, I'm on a power trip and I'm not following standard procedures).
We regularly get tickets complaining about mod abuse, and it happens with every single mod. In fact just recently someone even created a discussion about alleged abuse (which turned out to be unfounded) by one of of the mods you mentioned above as reasonable and open.
I can post the screenshot if you want and think you got nothing to hide
Do as you wish, I have nothing to hide indeed (it wasn't me who deleted the comments, not just mine but also yours, after making a screenshot leaving out the initial comment that triggered everything).
I never even denied I was acting like a dick, my only point has always been that if you start bothering me on Steam, then you don't get to complain here about what happened there.
But at least I'm capable to admit I was, while you will always maintain that you were completely innocent in this.
Not using foul-mouthed language doesn't necessarily mean your attitude is acceptable.
It's ironic that you say I might have bad memory just after claiming your initial comment was "just asking something in a polite way". You were pouring shit down my throat and expecting me to take it with a smile, then got offended when that didn't happen.
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You just can't let it go can you? Because i don't want to talk to you, yet you can make the snarky comment about calling a certain group spoiled little brats, yet if someone says something snarky about you then you feel hurt and feel triggered to drag this whole thing again out of the open, those are double standards.
Nothing to do with avoiding, you made your comment first, don't be suprised if someone makes a snarky comment about you.
And you should know darn well being a mod, being the better man you could just all avoid it to drag something out on a forum but no you don't want to, learn from Khalaq he actually gives some good tips there.
Where did you ever admitted "you were acting like a dick"? Because that's a first i heard of it, let alone ever got an apology for it.
I asked on your profile simply can i talk to you about the reason i was suspended? Because i was not getting a reply here, nothing else. that's the only thing "left out" because i didn't think it was important enough.
Then your very first! reply was "keep your butthurt off my profile".. (goes from bottom to top) If that was me being such a jerk for simply having asked that, then that's just weird or you got some very bad memory (maybe you had a few drinks even).
So I don't know where you keep getting that, that i left out somethng more, there isn't. if there was i wouldn't have had such a fuss with you, it's also just not in my nature to lie, i been lied too enough in my life.
Then and only then i said someone's butt must have been kissed yeah, but that's all i said.
What you said was more "then being a dick", it was unproffesional, rude and foul, in a christmas period..
Also you can say whatever you want about that other guy, but you don't know who else i am speaking with and i heard alot about all staffmembers, someone that wanted to put it all in the open, but decided not to, be lucky.
With your permission (so don't suspend me for some calling out thing).
And i do want to just drop this, ignore me, i ignore you, let it go, truce even, whatever.
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in a christmas period
You keep saying that. It was in February.
And i do want to just drop this, ignore me, i ignore you, let it go.
alright, then I won't address the rest of your comment, but for completion's sake, since someone sent me a screenshot of your first comment, here it is. It doesn't sound like you wanted to discuss your suspension or were politely asking something as you said. And again, just because you are implying things instead of using foul language doesn't mean it's fine.
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I keep distinctively remembering it before the new year, but you can see the time stamps on my ticket, anyway time frame is trivial.
I did asked you somewhere first if i could talk to you (maybe i did and you said something first that triggered such reaction and i either deleted that and replaced it with what you posted, and yes snarky, but not foul), i did delete alot of comments on both sides in the end, not because i had something to hide, i just didn't want those things left on my profile, also another reason, why i didn't had everything anymore to put in the screenshot.
Because that's my nature to just politely ask first and what i would just do to anyone, that comment didn't just happen out of the blue from me, or something else happened before that, you are also posting a comment without any further context.
And regardless of december or february it's been atleast 9 months ago, while i don't even know what i remember what i had for dinner last week, so yeah there are also parts i honestly don't know anymore, who said what first etc, what i do know is what you said in the end. Do you really remember everything?
Still does that imply and make it okay, you can call someone a fucking mongloid in the end over such a comment what you posted? No, it does not, and this goes in the same line as calling people "entitled little brats".
And i think i saw i more of that on the forum for me to even come up with such a comment i made, like the above comment that would be triggers for me to say something.
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anyway time frame is trivial
It is, but you still mentioned it twice.
You really didn't contact me before that (or if you did I missed it), the only thing that happened before this was the expected consequences of a certain repeated behaviour. And there is a context, the context is the screenshot you posted above, it just completes it.
Do you want to drop this or not ?
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"Certain repeated behaviour" you can say "calling out" on fake giveaways and such, no problem with that, when certain ones are obvious fakes, which i stopped doing since it isn't worth it, nor "just send in a support ticket" when so many go left unanswered.
No there is no context because there are a few things more missing, as i said i don't make such a comment out of the blue.
If you want to claim it is complete or even missed something, so be it.
Again still never justified you making a comment like "fucking mongloid" like you did, or the brats one above, and i think those weren't the only two events on this forum already a year back, which makes it a pattern, like Khalaq focuses on emphatize, wether or not you are, you certainly come over across as harsh from time to time, like that.
I never even wanted to start this, you did, and i said to drop this (literally) 2 times already, you somehow want to have the last word.
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still never justified you making a comment like "fucking mongloid" like you did, or the brats one above
Not arguing with the first part, but what's wrong my comment in this thread ? You focus on the brats part, which is from a quote, that I said I was quoting for the entitlement part. He could have said something neutral instead of little brats, I would still have quoted it, it wasn't the part that interested me.
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Okay well maybe Talgaby started that comment in the first place and you did focus on the entitled part and my reaction was still "blinded" by my perception of you when i wrote my comment.
Before the whole thing between us i am almost certain there were more things such as that on the forum by you, but then we do talk about more then a year ago that made me create this notion of you, and this thing just spiraled from both sides (even though you claimed to have said you admitted acting like a jerk, i missed it) and probably stuff we missed and forgot on both sides, i seriously do want to forget these things, it's been too long nor worth holding a grudge.
Still "well if you want them so badly, buy them, and if you cannot buy them" that's not really a friendly reaction to those out that there that can't just afford it, and there are many that simply can't, i have no dime and lucky with Tremorgames (so i can also sent gifts here), but it's not good for everyone, and i won't argue that noone should feel entitled to anything here, anyone should feel blessed with a site like this.
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you claimed to have said you admitted acting like a jerk, i missed it
I never explicitly admitted it before, but I meant I never denied it either, I've never argued that what I had said what justified, only that it was outside the website's scope.
Still "well if you want them so badly, buy them, and if you cannot buy them" that's not really a friendly reaction to those out that there that can't just afford it, and there are many that simply can't
It's not aimed at everyone who cannot afford it, but at the ones complaining that they can't enter for everything, while they're still offered chances to get it free of charge. Some of these people can afford it, some cannot, but I know that not everyone who cannot afford it is part of that group and that plenty of them are truly grateful for the opportunities they get.
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Not admitted nor never denied it, that's kinda the same as saying well i told a white lie, so it wasn't a lie, we had this thing dragged out on the forum before, you could have taken some of that sting out way before (or in the ticket) saying "well maybe that wasn't smart of me".
It was out on your steam profile indeed, but it was hard near impossible to reach you here, that i must have done it.
There will be all sorts of people at all sorts of ages (even kids), leechers, gifters, that will never change.
I wouldn't even argue getting a bit lesser points, but it's like people having been handed out $5 to spend on candy, for years then suddenly get $1 because the point amount really did go down alot (in cases especially during cheap sales).
One can argue anyone should just be grateful with that $1, but what i advocated before, CG asked people about our opinion, but he didn't made a poll, someone else did afterwards and a majority saying they don't like it.
Some of them would be botters, +1 hoarders but also some that genuinely do have interest in games and maybe spend hours on this site, that group is a grateful group but can understandably be a bit angry about the changes.
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If you want a game so very very badly that you feel the need to complain publicly that you can't enter all the giveaways for it, then yes, you should probably buy it.
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There is no irony. When someone is giving away a game which you can only buy for a full price and this could be a bit expensive for you, it is one thing. And completely different when bundle is ongoing, providing heavy discounts for games. Sometimes just superheavy discounts. HB 1$ tiers are often giving great games for less than 1-2% of price and you also can chose to give it to some charity organization of your choice if it makes you feel better. Saying that games are not worth some cents for you but you are eager to get them if someone else pays, does it sound right for you? Oh, why do I even ask =\
Even here there is a nuance. Really SG is not site where people who are rich share games to people who are so poor that they can't buy anything. We all have PCs, internet, we all have same amount of time per day which we can invest in work, studies, playing etc. Economics of countries are really different but mostly everybody here has enough money to buy any single game they really want, especially on sales, play it, and repeat. (and honestly, if person does not have money even for this, they could be grateful for any gift they get without demanding anything, while they are solving more important things in their life).
This makes act of gifting something wished completely a matter of making a receiver happy and playing this particular game more 'personal', so naturally gifts should be put to use accordingly, to make a gifter happy in return, otherwise it is same as throwing things (and intentions) to pile of trash, to ungrateful swines, which can only grunt in return and think that they have already paid you too much respect. This is what people who don't play wins do. By participating they make a choice to express own interest.
Plus all these users who are dissatisfied, also demand more points to enter ALL possible GAs for these games, even if this completely does not improve chances to win; because they can't calculate. And in whole their logic people who pay for gifts are not considered and appreciated; site is not appreciated for providing service either. And there appears a lot of "freed" time which a lot of people were spending browsing all these games and spending points whole the day.
About this last point: old system surely was providing benefit for users who never let their points reach cap compared to others. These users like to call themselves 'regulars' and they believe that they should actually have rightful benefit over 'casual users' who let points sitting capped at least sometimes. But why? They are useless! These 'regulars' are just like bots; if they did this manually - then congratulations, biobots. Person shouldn't destroy their self by making a work out of sitting on gifting site instead of.. being themselves and doing something real. And now cap being equal approximately the number of points per day frees time for these pathetic people who don't want to help themselves on own will. And they are only mumbling.
Which I infact did last humble, since I caught it on a low bta since I was waiting for its launch since the new point system doesn't work well with surprises. Thanks SG?
Wow. Thanks SG. I mean it.
be glad that some people are willing to offer a chance to get it for free
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I see thinking the public transportation company saying "you're all entitled, buy a car!" is not ironic to you and writing that automatically makes me a leech you need to explain Humble Bundle to. If only you used this time to write to check my giveaway games you could have saved so much effort.
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You asked, I commented. Afterwards, most part of my post is not directed personally to you, but continues my thoughts on this topic as a public comment and contribution to thread.
You shouldn't take personally part which does not respond in yourself. Don't worry, anyone reading this does not derive only from my answer that everything I am talking about is in yourself. Most people have intellect, I presume.
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How to drop my points below 500? I can't find any good giveaways at all. ;_;
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Start to enter in Hatoful Boyfriend GAs. You won't regret it.
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I'm curious, which is this "personal favorite non-indie game in the recent years" you mentioned?
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Holy shit are you me? Theres hundreds of games im still to beat but i have beaten this one like 3 times or something.
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I knew it! I loved this game too and have noticed that you've given away tons of copies of it, and thought that's maybe what you were talking about in your post. :D
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Hmm, I was trying to decide if I should keep or give Remember Me. had several neg reviews on steam.
also what script do you use? i have esgst, but i don't think that one can check played stats.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/NyDOv/tool-do-you-even-play-bro-gmtm-userscript
Remember Me has issues, like absolutely unskippable cut-scenes (both video and rendered). Its combat is also directly lifted from Arkham games, albeit IMO it is better. The projectile weapon's aim system is stupidly wonky.
But it has a good story and great atmosphere, even if the final game was about half of what they intended and promised at the E3 it was announced at.
Plus it has a great bum on the cover.
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I have it on my wishlist after I discovered it's from the same devs as Life is Strange. Did you like Life is Strange as well?
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Do you want an honest answer?
When I played it, I considered it an okay story.
My real thought is that it is an okay modern fantasy television miniseries, but a terrible game, because it is even more linear and less interactive than TellTale's television miniseries disguised as video games.
And only okay because the characters are clichéd but relatable, and the dialogue and characterisation moments are awesome, but the plot is full of holes and really lame writing.
Still, I got it for free, so I cannot complain, it provided enough entertainment to even justify an actual purchase. Not in a hurry to buy the prequel though, but I will sometimes.
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In my opinion, honest is the best answer. Sometimes if it's not important you might spare someones feelings, but it's gonna hurt more later when someone finally says something.
I agree that the interaction for these types of games is minimal, but actually disagree with telltale comparison. I really like telltale games (interactive stories), but they are way way linear (not in the sense of the plot, that is linear for both)(oh and some older Telltale games were more open, but TWD and wolf among us and newer games are really linear), but the areas you get to walk around and discover the world. There was a bunch of stuff you could observe or interact in life is strange that had no impact on the plot, but gave a nice setting and references to other stuff.
I didn't see any gaping plot holes (you can enlighten me on this) and I think the lame writing is fitting (high school kids are lame :D )
I got it for free as well (SG win, I consider it as one of the best wins). Maybe coming from remember me the experience of life is strange is not that great.
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The two most gaping plot holes is that the rich kid managed to pay the teacher for an entire high-tech bunker without anyone, even his parents noticing it.
The other is if you give up the gun at the Ep2 railway yard scene, the story does not know what to do with it, since all scenes were written to accomodate you shooting the guy and keeping the gun. If you play along and refuse to get the gun back, the story even flat-out gives up and just randomly gives it to you. This also references back to the linearity: you do not have any choices because the game will force-push you back on the "right" track, even if it means no sense in the current flow of events.
Same goes to saving the suicide girl, the entire third episode talks about her as if she is dead, with some afterword (and often obviously later-recorded) lines added after each monologue stating "thank god she is at the hospital now".
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The first thing didn't bother me that much. I guess the bunker could have been more cheaper to make it more believable.
As for the other one that is one of the design flaws of these interactive stories. The branching really can't be big, same is for Telltale games. A lot of the choices don't matter in the end. Actually, it's the problem with a lot of games. The amount of dialog and branches required to make it good would end up being it really complex and costly.
for other people SPOILERS As for this game, for me the whole game actually was centered around the theme that no matter what you do it still ends up at some similar point. Like there is destiny and no free will. I saw that the right ending was letting Chloe die, it was kind of letting Max experience the adventures together with her childhood friend and to come to terms with the death of her. Almost all timelines led to Max having to witness her death and give her up. I think the whole teacher and other stuff was kind of secondary to the story. Somehow it was all aimed at Max to grow as a person. Or at least that is how i felt about the game
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A little bit of double standards tally. The person who wins 1 cent worth game is the worst entitled little brat in the world cause he entered it for +1 and didn't play it through getting 100% acievements, a person creating loads of 20P GAs that costed them few cents is the greatest person in the world sitting on a high moral throne judging all the peasants below him? On one hand you do not shy away from admiting you don't really care about the quality of the stuff you are giving away, only about cost effectiveness in CV gaining - on the other hand you become outraged by the fact that winners may focus on playing better stuff they won/bought instead of mediocre (or plainly bad) game they won from you or simpoly putting it further in their backlog behind better quality stuff.
You like numbers, I like numbers as well. So out of curiosity I looked through your latest GAs and their respective review scores. I gathered data for 50 unique games (didn't decide to add value for repeats, otherwise your Top Trumps Turbo spam would affect results too much, and not really in a positive way) and average review score ended up being 0,63 aka 6/10, average at most (and considering how games are being scored in general, with almost nothing getting 1-2/10 while loads get 9-10/10) even below average. That being said it's not so unlikelly that people winning average or below average games will have them on low priority in their backlog.
Just two cents of an entitled little brat :3
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I am not outraged of my winners not playing. I am ranting about:
Still, it is not the thing that struck me. What really stuck out for me was that nobody, not a single soul among them ever thought about that maybe they could use this sudden excess time they are not spending on entering giveaways to actually try to play some of those video games they won here.
The data at the start was just the wind-up.
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Ok then, I actually was totally for lowering point distribution drastically (was just strongly opposed the way it got introduced, I still believe flexible system would be much better than fixed one, even if it meant than on a lazy day with not many GAs being created we would be getting even less than these 480P), so I do agree that people should be entering less, not more, but that is just my personal opinion, not something I have any right to enforce onto others. Also I still do not understand the reason for the actual rant, and especially the whole entitlement thing. It's very one-sided point of view you are presenting - it's bad if people feel entitled to have more points so they can enter more GAs, but suddenly it's totally fine if people feel entitled that everyone should play their wins they got from them no matter the quality. Neither entering more nor hoarding wins are against site rules, thus forcing your point of view on other users to change their ways for something that is not against the rules is more or less same kind of entitlement in both cases.
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Cant speak for everyone, but personally, and I know more people think this way; the only reason the new system is bad is due to its fixed points, actually applauding less points.
Of course in discussions we get churned in a heap for seemingly disliking it for wanting to enter all giveaways. Cause thats the only reason to disagree with it some view.
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That's pretty much my original point, but it is not what tally states in OP, referring this OP on community in general.
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The part I don't like is the 50 point cap on giveaways. I would have doubled the point requirement for new games, so farmers don't bother with them.
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but why just on new games? and how do you determine "new game"? a lot of new games are shovelware crap that gets bundled or put on wholesale key resseling pages the moment it gets onto steam, on the other hand 37% of top 100 community wishlisted games are games from 2016 or older so hardly "new games" - why would newly released shovelware one can buy for few cents cost extra while at the same time almost 1/3rd of top wanted games in the community cannot be considered new games and should not?
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Just unbundled $20+ or $60 games within a year of release, that's what I meant by "new games".
It wasn't supposed to be an all-encompassing policy statement... Just 1 sentence, refine it as you wish.
No one cares about shovelware titles.
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still doesn't solve the problem - there's been a lot of unbundled 20$+ shovelware crap as well, used for laundering money for example - like these 70$ DLCs to a 1$ game which only change color of pixel you are playing as. At the other hand quite a few games below 20$ are at the top 100 of SG wishlist:
- Cuphead (19.99$) is 2nd
- Hob (19.99) is 7th
- Hollow Knight (14.99) is 9th
- LiS: Before the Storm(16.99) is 11th
- Pyre (19.99) is 13th
- Bayonetta (19.99) is 14th
- Little Nightmares (19.99) is 16th
- Ruiner (19.99) is 19th
- Dead Cells (16.99) is 24th
- Stardew Valley (14.99) is 25th
- Escapist 2 (19.99) is 26th
- Astroneer (19.99) is 27th
- Ori and the Blind Forest: Definitive Edition (19.99) is 28th
- Rainbow Six Siege (14.99) is 30th
- Wallpaper Engine (3.99) is 38th
- Firewatch (19.99) is 41st
- Slime Rancher (19.99) is 42nd
- Northgard (19.99) is 42nd
- Sonic Mania (19.99) is 44th
- Dead by Daylight (19.99) is 45th
- Kingdoms and Castles (9.99) is 46th
- Vanquish (19.99) is 53rd
- Undertale (9.99) is 56th
- What Remains of Edith Finch (19.99) is 66th
- Sundered (19.99) is 69th
- Blackwake (19.99) is 71st
- Next Day: Survival (9.99) is 74th
So again, while on one hand a lot of titles which are over 20$ are worthless shovelware you wouldn't want to double entry fee for, on the other hand 27% of community top wishlisted 100 games are below even 20$ mark and would not be affected by your changes.
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And people wouldn't enter those overpriced shovelware giveaways.
Again, you keep pretending it was supposed to be a final policy. 20 is 19.99 for game prices, and this change wouldn't need to cover all games, just the most valuable new releases.
You are arguing against yourself, really, it's just the basic concept of the idea.
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Nope, I am arguing against stupid automatic idea you proposed. Not every 60$+ game is desired one, not every <20$ bundle game is shitty one noone wants, thus your idea would hurt a lot of legit GAs while not targetting a lot of others at all, which I proved with multiple examples. And if you want to manually add what should and what should not be affected - good freaking luck, we already have 1-3 weeks delays with adding stuff to bundle list (and there are few dozens games in bundles per week), good luck adding desirable stuff to "double value" list when there are over 100 games added to Steam weekly nowadays.
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Nope. You are arguing against your own stupid misunderstanding of what I said and the implementation you came up with on your head. Until you started making stuff up, I didn't suggest a way to implement it. If someone says "we should water the plants" and you respond "firemen hoses are too powerful, we can't do that", you are going on a pointless tangent and addressing you own idea of how to do it.
Doubling the entry requirements for a handful of giveaways could be done automatically would do nothing to hurt other wishlisted giveaways older ones and/or cheaper ones included.
Feel free to keep arguing against your proposal.
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How did I "started making stuff up"? Each of my responses to you was direct counterargument to stupid ideas you had (cause it was not one idea, when presented with counter you suddenly changed your mind on what you've meant). You say you want double entry points on new games, I counter saying most of new games are shovelware junk, while 37% of communities wishlist are old games. You then say unbundled $20+ or $60 games which has nothing to do with new games (quite a lot of AAA games do not lose value over time, so you can have 60$ 3 years old game, while you can have 15$ new game), so I counter you with actual list of all games from community wishlist that would not meet your idea. Then you go all rage, because being idiot you are (not directed at you, just using the same vocabulary you decided to use against me, as probably you cannot get ovcer the idea that someone could use actual real-life argumentation to bash your brilliant idea that should be the best in the freaking world) you cannot comprehense that the idea you came up with can not really be all that good. When presented with evedence against it, you pretend you meant something totally different, when presented with evidence against this something totally different, you go all rage, you're a sad little prick who cannot into adult's arguments, that's all :>
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... but suddenly it's totally fine if people feel entitled that everyone should play their wins ...
It's called showing gratitude. Real gratitude.
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Oh but ofc - ignore the whole post and context of the sentence you copied out of it :] so to remind this context you chose to ignore - there is a difference in priorities for people to play something good, nice or at least intresting and to play average game or even worse some worthless shovelware made entirely to farm cards. And feeling you are entitled to being shown real grattitude you deserve so much for 1 cent purchase you made in DIG store is the same kind of entitlement as the ones feeling entitled to be able to join all them gibz.
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Every game is a game. If you don't think a game is worth playing, why the hell are you trying to win it? Meanwhile someone else who could've enjoyed the game, is having to compete with someone like you... I don't know how they called it in your language, but in english, it's called selfishness.
Besides, real gratitude is shown through actions, not words. If someone else paid anything for a game, they deserve real gratitude.
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playing devil's advocate
I'll flip that - if you don't think anyone would enjoy a game, why are you unleashing it on the world?
Talgaby admitted not buying games so people could playy them, but buying so he could +CV. If it's ok to give a game just to +CV, why is it not ok to receive a game just to +1?
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There are millions of people out there, it's improbable that every single one of them hate the same games you do. Therefore, I believe that every game has its public. Not AAA public, but a handful of people that might wanna give it a try. I'd prefer my GA to end without a winner, than having 100000 entries from people that didn't want the game I'm giving away.
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It is okay to get a game only for a +1.
What is not okay is treating EVERY of those won games as a +1 and nothing more, regardless of the game.
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Every game is a game, not every game is equally desirable and equally important to you ;) Every food is a food, yet if I have in my kitchen tasty fresh lasagne and some leftover instant noodles I am pretty much sure what I will be having for dinner today :) but again - you decide to ignore context I wrote about - simply cause it doesn't fit wehat you want to say - at this point it becomes pretty obvious discussion with you is pointless, because you will ignore anything that does not fit your sanctified only real and only true point of view (ps. it's pretty entitlement as well to feel taht only your point of view may be right xP). Oh and please, go ahead, show me the hundreds, no thousands of people willing to play all these 1 cent asset flips, I'll wait :3
Also - feeling you gotta force on people the point of view that your 1cent shovelware asset flip gib is and should be as important to them as any other great game they may have won is pretty much entitlement as well. But yeah, I already get it - anything ones you do not agree with do is being entitled little brat. At the other hand anything you do or see as justifyable doing is not entitlement, it's the right thing to do and everyone should be greatful to you. Like I said few posts ago - It's very one-sided point of view, but I wouldn't expect any better of you :3
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If you bought the noodles or the lasagna with your own money, you're entitled to do whatever you want with them. Even throw it in the garbage while people starve elsewhere. Imo, it's morally wrong, but as long as it's your own money, you may do as you please.
However, if it's someone else's money, the least, you can do is show some real gratitude. If you're not prepared to do it, then let someone else have it. Else, you're just an ungrateful/selfish person.
I don't need to show you hundreds nor thousands. As long as there are a handful of people, it's enough. Not every game needs a AAA public. You're talking to someone who has played 1 cent asset flip games. You know why? Because it's the way to show gratitude for whoever bought that game I won. I may not have liked some of them, but I gave it my best. Doing the right thing is not always easy or pleasant, but it's the right thing.
Somehow showing gratitude is 1-sided, but stealing someone else's chance to play or not giving a damn about someone else's money isn't?
Btw, are all 3,129 you've won 1-cent asset flip games or only the 2979 you haven't touched? I'm asking just out of curiosity.
You can't debate so you try to reduce my argument by saying that a debate is logically untenable. Reductio ad absurdum at its best. Nice try. Slowly claps
Now, if you excuse me, I have some wins to play. :)
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yeah, yeah "I don't need to show you a proof" - typical gibberish from anyone being aware he pulled an argument out of his arse, Then further on like I said - whatever someone else does will be entitlement, whatever LAstM does cannot be entitlement by definition ;) Not to mention going into even more outrageous attacks (suddenly everyone opposed to LastM are no longer just entitled little brats, they are now stealing thieves at top of that xD
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My rant is about the kind of users who look at SteamGifts as some free candy dispensing machine, then they don't even eat the free candy, they just put it in a box they only open to put more candy in it. Meanwhile, some kids would really love to eat some of those candy, but they cannot get any of it, because the good candy and the bad candy are wasting away in those unopened boxes.
And now the kids who look at the site as the free candy dispenser machine bitch about how they get less free candy to stash away in their box.
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you keep ignoring the argument here. I am not saying someone winning stuff they not gonna play is not entitlement. I am saying giving away stuff not because of it's quality but because of "best value CV farming" yet expect everyone to prioritise these wins from you (including wins you yourself admit how shitty or worethless are - best example your TTT GAs spam) is as entitled. You yourself are well aware that some of your GAs are for games of average or low quality, but you decide to ignore this point of view. Only thing that matters is your own POV. And inb4 - I am not criticizing you for not making only great quality GAs - you can make any GAs you like for any games you want, I am only criticizing point of view that no matter these circumstances I am talking about (which are pretty important for a lot of people) everyone should behave as you think is fit. The same way you criticize all people who don't put average wins as they top priority someone could criticize you for not thinking about quality of your GAs at all and only posting them for cost-effectiveness reasons (CV farming is as often criticized in the community as is hoarding). You are admitting to something which is criticized in the community, yet you see nothing wrong with it, at the same time it is ok for you to rant about other thing which is criticized in the community yet these people you criticize are not allowed to "see nothing wrong with it".
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I am ignoring that point of view because that is a completely different topic: a topic of what kind of games are being given away on this site, in general. My topic is about the generic mindset of a pretty tangible portion of the user base who wouldn't play them even if I and everyone else only gave away the best 90%+ rated AAA games in the world.
I am not criticising people who don't put average wins as their top priority, I am criticising people who do not have any priority, at all, for any of their wins, because they equally don't give a fuck about them.
I am ignoring that point of view because it is not looking at the same thing from a different angle but looks at a thing not even in the same room.
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How is it completely different? It has a lot to do with your problem which resulted in your rant. You yourself admit openly that in most cases you do not care about game quality but rather care about CV-farming-opportunities. As such majority of your GAs are for average games (against, nothing wrong with that in itself), and as these are average games these will end up lower in users backlogs. So it's very much the same topic, as one thing is affecting other thing. You make average GAs, because of that lower % of them will be played right away or at all. Again - nothing wrong with it but on both sides - both yours and winner's. There are exceptions - like mentioned by you Remember Me, I personally don't think it's all that great - I loved arstyle, story and great boss fights, but I found level design quite weak and combat out of boss fights average at best, but still, poretty good game, so if your rant would be solely about winners of your Remember Me or other quality GAs you made not playing them - it would have much more weight, but if your rant is about overall playing of your GAs, most of which were like I said, avg at most, then the thing you are ignoring you should not - as it is very much affecting the situation here.
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It is different because you are trying to find a cause and effect relation in them and focus on one part of an eight-paragraph text. The entire top half is nothing but a wind-up and a base to put some of the later sentences on to form context; especially this one:
Still, people paid money for these games. Some more than me, some less than me. Some only a fraction of their sizeable wages, some a hefty portion of their pocket money.
That is it. The core issue of the entire post is about the demographic slice of SteamGifts who took their time to bitch about their reduced amount of entries in the point distribution change topic, yet never found this much motivation to play any/most of their wins. Everything you build your argument on is just a preliminary text that is only there to provide some context, not a cause of the entire thing.
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Maybe in your eyes it was only about very specific small demographic, clearly in eyes of a lot of your discutants it is not ;p I never bitched about reduced amount of entries (heck, actually I vouched strongly for a massive point regeneration reduction for a long time), yet others in this topic clearly take your point much further that what you said intention is, in many points in this discussion in whole topic (not just mine), actually in most I would say, it is clearly not about "people who are bitching about point reduction yet do not play most/all of their wins" but rather about "people who are not playing most/all of their wins" (aka entitled little brats, hoarders, fucking stealing thieves and other lovelly names) without any additions like bitching or not about point reduction.
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What people derive from it to discuss further is just an extension of the original topic, but the original topic is about what I just wrote above. :) Heck, Tzaar and LostSoulVL started one of their endless battles on the first page, somehow derived from the same OP. =)
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bleh... You turn your back for just a could of days, ....
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I only can say how I enter for giveaways - bad games exist. Someone is giving them away. I don't want to play them, so I don't enter for them. I don't think that the creator should be pointed out for giving away a bad game so poor little winner why would play it, but the winner why entering (likely for cards or just collecting games, let's face it)
Interestingly enough in groups giveaways can end up with 0 entry because noone wants the game, while people flock over the same shitty game so the fault isn't really in the creator, for giving away a bad game. But people who apparently want it, idk.
And I mean no offense with this, but with your hoarding without selection ofc you're trying to find a blanket-reason that removes the responsibility from the winner, while people who select what they win can't accept it, because that's something along the lines of "someone will have to win it yo" People are greedy and selfish, especially when no strings are attached, that's common, everywhere in the world. But that doesn't change on it how I feel uneasy in the gut about people entering everything then yelling at the creators "why are you giving away shit and then expect me to play it?" when noone is forced to enter
I try to accept that I can not, and should not force people to change their behaviour, but when it comes from despicable feelings like greed and entitlement, I feel trapped, as I don't want it to exist in the world, so just letting it happen is against what I believe in. And Talgaby is right about for example Playing Appreciated is building a lil' kingdom of nice, but that won't make the site better, similarly to how SGTools can lock out rulebreakers but not reduce their numbers or improving on the behaviour. And I don't really like the idea of only giving to selected people, but even niche/okay or good games get sacked and not played, often by users whose profile shows not even a hint that they will play it, it feels like a wasted game, ending up in a black hole, instead of played and enjoyed.
TLDR: people are greedy, me not likey, and torn about even giving with a good chance of the game being "lost" as the general userbase just wants to win anything - and I can't do anything against it besides not doing it at all.
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you're trying to find a blanket-reason that removes the responsibility from the winnerno, I am not, which I stated several times in this thread, ffs, how many times should I repeat that "winners are as entitled" until people finally read I do also call winners entitled, just not only them like OP does. Also to paraphrize your argumentation to show how, again, one-sided it is - "people creating lots of low quality GAs solely for the sake of CV farming, ofc they're trying to find a blanket-reason that removes the responsibility from the giver" - sounds familiar? And actual reason why they make low quality GAs is not because "well there is surely someone that will really enjoy that" - the reason is that it's the cheapest, the most cost-effective way to farm CV. And I'm fine with that, getting cost-effective CV is not against the rules. tally in OP at least openly admits he is doing it himself, not shying away from it like most of others who will put bs like "game is a game, no matter if it's great quality game from winners wishlist of assetflip 1c shovelware". I am not saying "winning and not playing your wins is morally right", I am not justifying it, I am just saying that putting lowest cost GAs, lowest quality, only worrying about how much CV you will be able to farm for as little as possible neither is the highest moral peak imagineable, contrary to what cerain someone (and nope, not tally) in this thread tries to push.
People are greedy and selfish - ofc they are, if you are not, props to you, but majority are, it's in human nature. But these are not only winners who are greedy here - CV farming is greedy as well. You are trying to achieve what normally should cost X monies spending Y% less, you want the same thing everyone else achieved while putting 2,3,5 times less investment into it - it is not greedy in your opinion?
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Why do you feel the need to point out in" Also to paraphrize your argumentation to show how, again, one-sided it is" that arguements are one-sided when I had a separate paragraph about writing about how one-sided the thing is. I know! I said it as well! Not to mention that the "greedy CV farming" only works because there are greedy entrants, and vica versa.
You are trying to achieve what normally should cost X monies spending Y% less, you want the same thing everyone else achieved while putting 2,3,5 times less investment into it - it is not greedy in your opinion?
No, I don't feel it to be greedy at all. if a system exists to do so, why not? Should I buy milk, bread coffee at full price as some others do because buying in a store where / when there's a discount on it, or I'm being greedy? Come on. Giving away shit for CV only works because there are "hungry mouths" to get that shit.
In Bundle Quest we had giveaways with 0 entries because it cost ratio to get it. As soon as someone made it ratio-free we had 1-3 DOZEN entries out of the blue sky. That is greed. CV farming, giving away shit only works because people facilitate the system. Like people entering for clickfusion and doing nothing. Winning shit VR games without a competent machine and/or VR set.
This is like real life. You can't sell/give away shit noone wants, but if there's a demand for it, you can get rich out of it.
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Should you buy a car for 1/5th of it's actual value and then be surprised when you find out there is something wrong with it? not really - you could expect that there's a reason why it was few times cheaper than it normally would be. Similarly should you expect all your winners to join your GA for stuff you bought for 1c on DIG Store to play through said game? In most "games" cases not really - there is also a reason someone is selling the game for 1 cent.
And yes - I do agree, CV farming only works because there are greedy people willing to enter GAs for anything, but the same way these people are able to enter anything because there are greedy CV farmers for whom game quality does not matter, only thing that matters is cost-effectiveness. In a lot of bundles, most of HB, some IG and BS one could easilly get good quality games and farm CV with them - for 1$ you often can easilly earn 4,5, sometimes even 7$ CV, but you can easilly get 10, 15, 20$ CV per 1$ spent if you decide to buy some wholesale shovelware bundle of shite, and if choosing latter instead of former only in pursue of efficient CV farming is not greedy in your eyes, only entering for stuff is, then we really have some seriously different definitions of greed.
EDIT:
Also for it not being greedy because " if a system exists to do so, why not?" - by your logic winning for +1 and not playing would be not greedy as well, system exists, it's not against the rules, so why not? ;p
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I choose the latter just to keep giving inbetween the various bundle releases; as we do not have a lot of disposable income - not for CV farming purposes - if it was for CV farming I would have given away multiple copies of the various softares that gave massive amounts of CV, instead of just a single copies because it came in the bundle and we did not need it - I think the recent Ace RPG thing could have been abused yes? not sure?
not even sure what I would need to do to farm CV, as it all seems far too complicated for me to bother :P
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noone is forcing you to give away whole bundle at it's release ;p instead of dumping whole bundle at once and then buying shovelware you could simply divide quality bundle GAs overtime, heck without additional shovelware purchases you could buy even a little more of these quality GAs overall spenmding the same amount. But at the cost of increasing quality you would be decreasing your CV and numerical number of GAs ;p
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possibly - but do you not agree that it should be up to me what I give away, when I give it away, and for what ever reasons I choose to do it for ? :)
as for the CV bit - I really couldn't give a knats ass about that :P - actually, the more that I think about it, the more I think that this whole thread is a bit poisionous :)
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ofc I do agree ;) That's basically what this whole discussion here is about - the same way I do agree you are free to create whatever GAs you want (as long as they are according to the rules so for example no fake GAs) the same way anyone is free to enter whatever GA they want (again if ok with rules - aka he must activate) - even if it's just Shovelware 1c game he wants for +1 and cards ;p Thing we were arguying here was not that it's bad to make low quality GAs (I have made my own share of low quality GAs I got cheaply from tremor and DIG store) - the thing discussed was that if it's ok to make low quality GAs just for cheap CV why is it not ok to enter them for just +1 (I wouldn't imagine criticizing people who won some shitty shovelware from me for not playing it to 100% completition, I got these games for few cents, yet suddenly I will pretend to be the most generous person ever and expect everyone to kiss my feet cause I gave away some shovelware? sounds kinda riddiculous ;p)
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I agree with all that - as I just stated to someone else in this thread
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/TJC3gjt
I don't give away games with strings, simple as that - when I give it, it is theirs from that point on - what they do with it is their concern; as long as they activate it of course :)
my only point was that I am not giving away shovelware for CV reasons, that was all :) - I am just giving away games (be they shovelware or not :) for the sake of giving them away (I came here from Steam Companion)
still, my BL shows me that some do not agree with giving away a game without strings :( (even though there are groups for giving away games that a person requires you to play immediately)
just made me sad today is all - as I truly thought that gifting meant just that - giving something freely and without conditions (I'd insert a sad panda face here if I could)
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I wouldn't worry too much abpout BLs tbh, that's how things are - petty people will BL you for simply having different opinion from them and in most cases you cannot have an opinion that will fit with everyone ;p Since posting in this thread I lost 5 WLs and gained 3BLs - it happens every time you post any of actual opiniopns someone may disagree with ;)
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Er, actually, large-scale bundle shovelware purchases rarely crack 10 CV/USD. I recall like one single bundle outside Humble Bundle 1-dollar tiers that went over that. The usual GoGoBundle/OtakuMaker/DIG/DIG store CV returns even at optimal circumstances goes around 5-7 CV/USD. Still, considering even IndieGala happy hours before they totally turned to shit were around 4-5 CV/USD, it is a lot easier now to optimally CV farm.
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You think so? Let's see:
Latest Otaku Bundles(considering most valuable purchase - group buying 10 copies, dividing so you give away max 5):
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/AemdY/otakubundle-otaku-bundle-7 - 15,57CV/$
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/FLd6y/otakubundle-otaku-bundle-6 - 16,78CV/$
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/cX3kT/otakubundle-otaku-bundle-dx-5 - 18,87CV/$
DIG Wholesale bundles are 0.5$ for each extra bundle, and usually goes for little over 0.5$ on group buys:
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/eqFMy/dig-super-bundle-117-is-live-with-6-steam-games-for-099 - 17.68CV/$
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/9DT3q/dig-super-bundle-115-artifex-mundi-is-live-with-6-steam-games-for-099 - 17.98 CV/$
IG Happy Hours means BTA*2/5, so:
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/4qNDC/indiegala-the-warhammer-alliance-bundle - 12.36CV/$
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/cjYnS/indiegala-artifex-mundi-bundle-7 - 10.77CV/$
It's all not mentioning things like DIG Store or Steamgrounds. There you can easilly buy games for 0.01-0.05$. even if it's 1$ game it still calculates 3-15CV/$, but considering different prices both in these stores and in steam - there's been cases of 20P games costing 1c - of which you are well aware as you gifted it yourself - 1c per 20P is 300CV/$, but it's extremum case, but still anyway it's not really hard to turn 10-20CV/$ simply using any wholesale store, harder but doable reaching 20-30CV/$ and more with extrreme examples of reaching up to 300CV/$.
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Holy fuck, those OtakuMaker ones… They started as a good CV farm and fell fast. Seems like somehow they scored some decent grabs.
DIG point store is a little finnicky. It is really difficult to find a game in the 1-5 cent department that actually gives CV. There are a few ones that are really good, if one is fast enough though.
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If you use DIG Store Enchancer script it becomes quite easy to spot best CV farmers as you can see both point cost and Steam Retail Price.
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Heh, I really did my share of CV faring at the wrong time. It seems all so easier now. :P
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you did? I joined SGv2 being lvl 9 already (and in SGv1 I was on 5000CV aka max, just lost lots of it because of new entries rules ;p), meaning most of my "CV farming" happened in times, when we weren't even able to farm using bundles (whole bundle CV could go up to just 20% of your non-bundle CV, so for lvl 9 you needed at least 2400$ of non-bundle CV then you could get 600$ of bundle CV extra ;p
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Ehhh, I actually do play video games. Currently playing the SNES Classic & NES Classic.
I just find this site to be an addiction and cannot stay away.
Thankfully I'm not spending my money on alcohol or tobacco but games to give away.
EDIT: As far as not giving, as long as I am subscribed to Humble Monthly there are always bound to be games in it that I don't like and want to give away to someone who does.
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we don't always agree, but you speak the truth when it comes to entitled people that only care about winning...
when you mention they don't play their wins they get instantly offended, like it's a chore to play games and make up all kind of excuses: i have no time; i will play when i buy a new laptop; it's not against the rules; i'm a collector; i can do whatever i want; i already give back to sg, i don't need to play my wins!
all stuff to excuse their poor behavior.
yes, there's nothing in the rules that enforce people to play their wins (congrats, you're not breaking the rules!) but that doesn't mean you (not you, talgaby) are cool. you are, in fact, an ungrateful idiot.
you win a $10, $30, or a $60 game, and it's just idled? wth is wrong in your head?
games aren't collectibles tro be stored in a vault, they are made to be played.
you want to collect? fine! go buy them. i don't even care if someone has 12.000 games in his account, you're free to do whatever you want with your money. but winning to +1 libraries and idle 9 cents worth of cards is just stupid and rude.
on top of that, this new drama about points is so sad i have to laugh at some replies to avoid crying. people complaining they can't enter all giveaways for a $1 bundle (the horror!).
they can't skip their morning coffee or an evening snack and pay $1 instead of leeching 500p per day like madmen?
do they live in medieval times getting paid 1 copper coin per week and eating 1 piece of bread per meal?
you own a pc and internet, stop with the stupid excuses.
still, you can't pay $1? ok.
stop complaining about getting less points.
EVERYONE gets less points, not just you.
EVERYONE has the same chance to win as before, or even better odds.
this place can be a boon at times, filled with awesome people and lots of fun, but the entitlement went through the roof in the past months to the point giveaway creators are expected to give stuff to "active users" (yes, that's how leeches call themselves now).
it's truly discouraging to see this behavior, not only by "active users", but also by high level people collecting games to +1.
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Lmao.. complains about generic & sarcastic insinuations. Responds with personal attack. Reading your own posts bud?
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I mean if you consider he/she named "I have no time to play" as nothing more then an excuse,his/her life probably consists of nothing more then video games and sg. Vitriol comes easy that way.
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Weil, I became active here, because trading is a timesink and a hassle, therefore I thought SG could be a solution by giving some and winning some. Truth is: it is. Also it's a way better socializing area than any trading negotiation. And in the past year I also thought "I'll play them, but I don't know when". But you just can't look into the winner's head and therefore know if he's playing it eventually and that changed my mindset.
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We actually agree on an astounding number of things regarding SteamGifts, but only in principality. Our ways of expressing and trying to address them (or mostly just not address in my case, since I am usually tired to bang my head against an obviously solid granite wall) is where the difference—or, more precisely, the direct opposition—lies.
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i get frustrated so much i have to rant all the time. ^^
and i need a diplomacy course. -.-
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Frustration is difficult to deal with, but do your best. Try to make your posts more constructive than just a rant so that they will (hopefully) have a positive impact instead of a negative one. "I am feeling this way because this happened and here is one way we might make things better" is a lot more conducive to discussion than "This guy is a jerk because he doesn't put the toilet seat down."
I don't know if I'm making much sense, here, but I hope you get the general idea.
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giveaway creators are expected to give stuff to "active users" (yes, that's how leeches call themselves now).
did I miss out something? o.O or this is just a rephrasing of the " new system hurts the people who visig SG often" type of comment?
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the active users part is translated from spanish from the points thread. xD
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Nice rant. ;-) I used to give my spare keys to friends and family, but they hardly ever played these games, so I was happy so find steamgifts and now I'm giving my spare keys to strangers, who also hardly ever play them but at least I get internet points for that! :D
PS. I hardly ever play games I buy, too. And from the games I won, I think I only played the ones I won through Playing Appreciated, because it's required. ;-) It's not that I don't want to, it's just procrastination. Giving away is more fun than winning anyway, because GA = levelling up and winning spoils the ratio. ;-)
PS2. In all honesty I'd love people to actually play "my" games so whenever I have something cool to give away, I usually give it to Playing Appreciated. Also I'd love to have more incentive to play all the games I win, so I wish there were more Playing Appreciated giveaways that I could enter hint hint ;-)
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before I discovered SG, if I had a spare key, I'd go on that game's forum on steam and leave a message.
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I don't think the new system give a "sudden excess time"... since then i spent the same time on SG than before because of fast GA not because of point (but maybe i don't have a good point of view since i have 400-500points almost all the time...).
I don't "complain" against the new system but i don't think it's a good thing and i don't think it serve his primary objective.
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What really stuck out for me was that nobody, not a single soul among them ever thought about that maybe they could use this sudden excess time they are not spending on entering giveaways to actually try to play some of those video games they won here. Games other people paid for.
I had to stop reading at this point to post this gif:
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Only problem is spending less time here is a myth.
The true addicts still login hourly for flashes.
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If someone is addicted to SG, then it's the perfect time to overcome this addiction! xD
But seriously, SG is not far from gambling, if someone is addicted, they should seek help.
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GA creators certsinly arent to give us that help if a recent poll is toblieved. Hell, many of them want lower min times to make it even worse. Rewarding "active users" its called. For many of them (me included) its more fuelling an inner fear of missing out, and inner peace would be more of a "reward".
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Just interesting to see people go "hell, yeah, this gives players more time to play wins" (even if fake), but if theres an actual option to do so they all respond negatively.
It seems people want a lot, but actually willing to make consesions to make it happen?
Nope.
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Exactly what I think. I started to think that I was alone :)
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Time spent on SG is not in a single chunk.
It's hard to play a game for a minute every now and then.
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2500$ for lvl 10! Not very efficient way to game the CV tbh
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It's really true. I played only a little part of games I won, but to be honest I also bought a lot games that I did not play yet. I just don't have enough time and energy.
I try to enter GAs that I at least think I will eventually try, but it doesn't mean soon. As winning is random one can not plan schedule of playing won games. For example I can win two games in the same week I bought some myself - big chance that the ones I bought will be first ones to go.
Overall: big, good text and big, good contribution to site.
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Lower point income is not the real issue on this site. The real issue is that you are a bunch of entitled little brats who cannot think about anything else but hoarding. Some for a +1 in their sizeable library, some for cards, some for the sake of winning something on the internet. But nobody, and I mean nobody to play video games.
You know what did strike me? The use of the word nobody :P
I play my SG wins frequently and I still had a lot of concerns about the current changes. But one of the first arguments in favor of them I thought of, was "I will spend less time on entering giveaways. Now I'll have even more time to do more interesting things. Something like playing my SG wins :D"
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The problem with English is that it is easy to get lost in the pronouns. Maybe if I didn't write that before going to bed, it could have been more clear. Nobody in the group I am addressing. The group where I know most of its members will never read this in the first place, but a few messages in the point change topic finally pushed me over this edge of ranting.
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Maybe if I didn't write that before going to bed, ...
Story of my life. P
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Thanks for sharing these valuable thoughts. Guess we all should show more gratitude to others.
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I totally understand where you are coming from and I agree with you.
However I do see a growing trend that encourages playing wins. BLAEO, Montlhy play your wins thread, Playing appreciated, several users that are actively creating wishlist GAs or private GAs for people who have more than x% played wins, GAs for sequels if you played the previous games, and other instances that I can't recall right now. Not so long ago most of the talk was about ratio and real ratio and this change was quite clear to me.
I make it a point of playing my wins (87% started, 68% beaten, at the moment) and I give them preference over my purchased games. Then again, I'm not complaining about this change in points attribution so you weren't probably talking to me :)
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I'm addicted to winning.
seriously, though, there's a psychological factor, that merely checking SteamGifts releases endorphins and we receive a dopamine hit just by entering giveaways.
Now to address the issue at hand. I only enter giveaways I intend to play. However, that doesn't mean I'll play them right away.
First off, I work a lot, and if I have 2 minutes to spare, I can easily check into SG and enter some GAs, and that doesn't take away from my gaming. After work, I also want to spend time with my kids, so I might not have time to get a good gaming session in, and a lot of games aren't conducive to short bursts of play. don't get me wrong, there are times where I can get a solid block of several hours in, but more often than not, I can't
I'm also spoiled for choice, I have a library of over 400 non-rubbish games that I want to play, but I can't play them all. Take, for example, if I had just bought the borderlands bundle and was getting into one of those games l got 300+ in BL2, and then happened to win a game today that I entered last week. I probably wouldn't start playing that for a while, as I'd be so captivated by another game. That is most likely to happen to me - I get several new games at a time, and one sucks me in to the point of not giving enough attention to the others. And then I might not get to the recently won game for a while.
Couple this with a space limitation - I game on my laptop, which has a relatively small solid-state drive so I can only have a few games installed at a time.
And lastly, I have very varied tastes, but there's a consistency factor. So for example, a while back I was very much into horror games, played Amnesia Dark Descent, finished F.E.A.R. and was in the middle of Outlast when I won Soma. I got horrored out actually, creeped out - outlast scared the shit out of me and haven't played a horror game in a while. With Halloween around the corner, I'll probably start it up again, but I do feel bad having not played it. Likewise, for a while I was playing a lot of grand strategy, then that genre took a breather when I started playing platformers again. I'm now off of platformers, and have been playing a lot of simulation games. My tastes rotate every few weeks/months, and I might not rotate back to that genre for a while.
I intend to play every game I won, but that doesn't mean I'll do so soon. Even with the best of intentions, that's just not possible. and that's not even taking into account the few games I won that I can't play for technical reasons; mainly older games that just don't run well on my machine
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I get the feeling. My first game I won here was a td. One of my favorite genres. But it just didnt grasp me. Did I not like the game or just played too many td's. Still dont quite know.
Or maybe just spoiled by Defenders Quest, which when I bought it in a bundle I thought "meh, I'll give it a try but likely just play till all cards drop then uninstall"... how wrong I was.
Also several wins now are for my daughter (<1 year, so will take a while) and HOGs, which I play with the GF. But unsure when we'll play together again, but still entering them since while it not might be soon, for sure we'll play them all again in the future...
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Yeah, I agree. People who complain about not being able to enter more giveaways, while having a massive stack of unplayed won games, well, that reeks of entitlements. Out of the ones I checked only a single one had reached 25% played, while the vast majority had less than 10% played, and yet they complain about not being able to win more. And this is why I've kinda stopped giving away anything good in public. Because I know that it won't be played.
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For the record, I do enjoy entering giveaways and winning. And I don't always play my won games right away. But I've got a simple system for making sure that my won games gets played. If I feel like playing a game of a given type (say a turnbased strategy game), I'll first look at my wins to see if I've got one there. If yes, I play that, if no I look into my library. And because of that, I've got an 83% played rate (not going to count games I've just started, checked out and then not played much in as played for this, if that would count, it would be closer to 89%). And I've got the rule that if it's a new/expensive game, I need to expect to want to play it soon if I'm going to enter.
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I dont have scripts running atm, would you be so kind and check my %..? :3
Going to play all my left SG wins and using BLAEO tools as help...
Have won good number of gibs last months, i hope it's not too low...:P
Thanks for helping...!
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Games with ≥1 Achievement: 29.8% (37/124)
Achievement Rates ≥25% complete: 17.7% (22/124), completed: 3.23% (4/124)
Games with any Playtime 81.0% (128/158)
Games with Playtime... ≥5 hours: 13.3% (21/158), ≥10 hours: 3.16% (5/158)
Generally I look at the achievement one for games played.
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Thank you...! :3
I think Devil Daggers won't help... :P
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You're talking to yourself?
You started to turn. Long Elegant Wombat Drown
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Blame steam culture more than anything, and I only enter in stuff I intend on playing someday, but with the deal hunting culture, it's not that easy. Not like pre-steam where 30 bucks was a deal on a game.
Mind you I never complained about the points matter; I make due with what i get.
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Steam culture spawned much larger problems than that. Granted, if we look only at the part where my rant is about entitlement, then yes, I can see a direct correlation.
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Oh yeah there's worse problems indeed, but it was just in line of the topic. I mainly meant the ease of getting games for cheap and/or the collection-mania some people have (who'd get games just to pad out their collections), though I might add Achievement hunters as well.
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Over the course of roughly 25 months, I spent an average of 100 USD monthly to buy games to give away on this site. It is not a particularly high amount, but it was a little under the fifth of my monthly income.
My main reason was to try and find the most optimal way to game the CV level system, experimenting on the most optimal ways to reach the highest level with the lowest investment. (Keep in mind, this way before the time such ridiculous CV farms like Humble software bundles were this relatively commonplace, so my average was around 3.5 CV/USD.)
Over the course of roughly 30 months, I sent out 7,000 game keys to 6,500+ people, and the combined point value of these games is now exceeding 62,000. That is sixty-two thousand points only the winners spent during this time to enter giveaways.
Tens of thousands of those points hide bad games.
Tens of thousands of those points hide decent to good games.
A couple thousand of those points hide pretty damn good games.
To this day, I know absolutely surely about 1200-ish points worth of those games which were played by the winners. Some to completion, some to 100%, some only until they realised it was not really their cup of tea. Still, at least they tried.
Even if I interpolate it based on the average behaviour I see among the userbase thanks to that userscript that can check up on won game play stats, my best guestimate is maybe 5-6,000 points of those games were installed and played to some degree by those who won them.
That is at best 10% of the total and it also seems to be more or less the average of the global win ratio I see among active SG users.
Ever since the site's solitary owner, cg, introduced the new point system, we now have close to one thousand replies in its announcement thread complaining about how few giveaways people can enter now. I actually checked most of those users. The average ratio of played games was not even nearly 10%.
Still, it is not the thing that struck me. What really stuck out for me was that nobody, not a single soul among them ever thought about that maybe they could use this sudden excess time they are not spending on entering giveaways to actually try to play some of those video games they won here. Games other people paid for.
Yes, I know, SteamGifts is not a charity site. We had the discussions, the majority cast the vote on this. Still, people paid money for these games. Some more than me, some less than me. Some only a fraction of their sizeable wages, some a hefty portion of their pocket money.
But you guys… the thought to even try the games these people gifted to you… it never even crossed your mind, even for a second.
Lower point income is not the real issue on this site. The real issue is that you are a bunch of entitled little brats who cannot think about anything else but hoarding. Some for a +1 in their sizeable library, some for cards, some for the sake of winning something on the internet. But nobody, and I mean nobody to play video games.
This is the problem right now on SteamGifts. You. You and your approach on the gifts others gave you. Yes, some are genuinely crappy games. Yes, most of them are bundled games. But guess what, one of my personal favourite non-indie games in the recent years is on the bundle list, I even spent a considerable amount on several packs of a Humble bundle to get ten keys for it, of which I now gave away eight. Only one of those people ever played it.
So, your problem may eventually be not the lack of points, but those who pump money into this site realising that people like you just take mindlessly whatever they can without any sort of gratefulness, and they just stop giving. Then you can start whining even more on the lack of giveaways to enter for.
And I bet none of you will think about playing any of your won games even then.
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