What are your thoughts on Visual Novels - as games or as fiction? [VN Giveaway inside]

BUMP&Merry Christmas:)
And yes, I really, really like visual novels. Most of them aren't perfect, but it still one of my most beloved genres.
(And Doki Doki Literature Club for me was only "ok" but I can see, why some people really love this one).

View attached image.

I love reading and visual novels are a welcomed change in pace. Not really into horror or meta and I think they should just be classified as VN.

I enjoy reading, visual novels just detract it for me. I think I read fast, so seeing all the visual stuff slows it down significantly for me.
Plus, most of the time imagination + literature > whatever visual stuff is made based off of the literature (like movie adaptations, ugh!)

But man, do some VNs have great music and art! that i can appreciate

I've also loved reading since I was a little kid, and so visual novels were an amazing discovery for me. Admittedly, I started with silly otome VNs, but then I started finding more quality stuff like Narcissu and Steins;Gate. Been hooked ever since.
I know that there are plenty of people for whom that much text makes them want to run the other direction and we all have different genre tastes, but when they then insist visual novels aren't games at all it's hard to not become frustrated. I do believe that they shouldn't be bundled up with other games like you stated. I really enjoyed DDLC, but reading that it won an award as an adventure game seems odd.

TL:DR

but yea VN can be cool some times

Generally, I quite enjoy them. As you said, their ports are mixed. I hope they get the respect they deserve going forward.

I was an avid reader ever since childhood, so quality VNs are a real treat for me. I was hooked to the genre through my absolute favourite, Umineko no Naku Koro Ni. If you like VNs and aren't afraid of length I wholeheartedly recommend it and feel you owe it to yourself to at least try it.
(Warning: between Episodes 1-4 and 5-8 it's more than twice as long as War and Peace by word count. It's also awesome.)

I haven't actually read that many VNs, though. I completed Umineko even before it was ported to Steam and then re-bought it.
I'm also following along with the release of Higurashi by the same author, which I hadn't actually read any of beforehand.
Bought, read and enjoyed Steins;Gate too. And I recently bought and started Root Double - Before Crime After Days Xtend Edition, but I'm not too far into it so I can't yet give my opinion of it.
The House in Fata Morgana was on my radar too but Assassin's Creed Origins ate up my Christmas budget.

I've loved VN since they were an even more niche genre than it is now (with only a few available to buy legaly and with more fantranslator groups than now... and believe it or not with more translation quality than more oficial releases have now). I feel they can be much more than the mainstream VN are (take the japanese developers Nitroplus or Innocent Grey for example), but weirly enough, the western side of things almost only got the boobs part of the genre (as a cash grab, understandable) instead of the opportunity to tell great and deep stories. I will be happy with just localized versions of story-driven japanese releases instead of boobs, moeges, and chuuni titles, but sadly that does not sell.

Even so, I'm happy with the two or so story driven titles we got per year (your GA is one i'm really interested in, check my wishlist, is one of the few I will be happy to have on Steam) and DDLC surprised me a lot, not my favourite VN, but i'm happy with its reading.

I'm addicted to visual novels, collect and plan to read them all when I can. Good, bad, and ugly, they have become my new books for the most part. Thank you so much for this chance.

I love reading books, but I really don't like visual novels, alas ^^

I really enjoy reading, mostly the genres you listed yourself. I haven't played a VN that touched me like a book yet, but I'm open minded and try them as any other game genre.

Thanks and happy holidays!

Naturally, there's plenty of low quality products, or clearly censored ero VNs, but to ignore everything available because some unworthy content exists is to throw away an entire banquet over a single bottle of wine spilled.

Having to dig really deep to find the diamonds in the rough isn't helping, though. I swear, every time something Japanese pops up in the recommendations that isn't tagged "JRPG" it'll be tagged "visual novel" and "nudity". Neeeext. I'm not a big fan of anime esthetics on the best of days, but I'm really not interested in dating simulators or eroge. That eliminates a lot. I also don't like VNs that are completely linear -- I see this as completely pointless; I'd rather read a book. I want at least some choice. Finally, VNs that refuse to give you any satisfying end if you don't scrutinize a guide first or replay them multiple times also get binned in the "not fun" category. Does that leave anything? I have no idea.

I love it when a game (as in, a proper game with resources to manage and things to move around and all that) gives you a good, meaty story along with it, preferably one with choice; that's why story-rich RPGs are among my favorite kind of games. I also don't mind if the gaming aspects are toned down and we get more story than game (Telltale style). If it goes completely over to fiction and there's no interactivity at all (other than "click here to advance") I tune out. VNs are often straight fiction with weird gaming-like elements tacked on that don't do it for me. This is also why I don't like most walking simulators/"interactive exploration games". Perfectly valid stuff to have on Steam, mind you, but not my kind of experience.

Problem for me with VN is, that they are 'same' content just repeated to create 'playtime'. Most VN are short(3h or so).
I mean as 'books' with graphic and interchangeable content they would be perfect, but calling such things games is false I think.

вuмp 🌲

I respect Visual Novels and their place in culture, but everyone who calls them "games" are kidding themselves. Before the walking simulator boom of 2012-2013 led to it being changed in most gamers' minds, the definition of game was "a set of rules/mechanics where player engagement and enjoyment is mainly derived directly from said rules/mechanics," and even today, I believe that everyone, deep down, knows this. I remember there was an Extra Credits episode where they were talking about how to make fun games, and their philosophy was "Remove everything except the mechanics and basic indicators. If you can't make that fun by itself, then don't make it." (I distinctly remember they were taking pot-shots at standard trun-based JRPG combat during that segment, as many games don't realize what makes that style of combat fun). This is why I don't consider VNs, walking sims, clickers, and idlers to be games: without the narrative part, the mechanics can't hold up.

As for Doki Doki Panic Literature Club's success, I think it had more to do with the fact that it's free. That way, it could advertise itself without spoiling itself and still get people to try it out because "why not?" Then, word of mouth takes care of the rest.

I personally love them ^^ I always liked to read, so the genre itself is great for me. Add the nice visuals, the music and choices~ Can't ask for more :3

I treat them as choose your own adventure booklets or (mostly) underdeveloped books, mostly because lacking in length.
I didn't think much of VNs after a failed attempt with Cinders, then - ironically - the silly-looking Hatoful Boyfriend showed me that in some cases stats or paths can be ignored without stressing about results - and then there's still creative content. While VNs are really lacking in gameplay aspect, they can present and deliver stories in a really affective way. I just miss the smoothness of turning a page after reading, instead I have to press a key like 20 times to progress a page's worth :)
Crime, horror, psychological, adventure - writing in these genres can be used pretty nicely. Also, kinetic novels can be fun as well if someone wants a story ; a game with an oversimplified, boring combat gating off the stories is more off-putting for me than a good visual novel. Fault: Milestone One was really cool, Hatoful Boyfriend will be an important one for me because getting me into VNs, and I really enjoyed Hustle Cat as well. Forgotten, Not Lost was an interesting change from the usual light-hearted stories. I'm curious how Doki Doki Literature Club will turn out.
And being game or not: I don't really mind how people call it, though I would prefer keeping them in games category as VNs because interactive fiction and other blanket-names won't really cut it. Maybe kinetic novels could be moved to movies, but as it's like an animated short-story, wouldn't fit too well there either.
And thanks for the game, I really heard superb things about The House in Fata Morgana

I do read a bit but I'm not an avid reader, I really like visual novels though. The art helps, and they are usually short too. I haven't played Doki Doki Literature Club though, I have lots of game to play, I'll definitely try some day though. Thank you for the chance.

I mean its kinda annoying the amount of trash VN that have been released on steam semi recently >.>

other than that for the "true visual novels" yeah I think if they have enough branches they can be considered games >.>

yes, i believe it can be called adventure game, after all, like you said, the classic definition of adventure game is that, the point and click/text-based/narration based game
and yes, it is a game, i think the fact that it's a windows software that needs to be programmed made it qualify as a game, if not application
and people play (or read?) this software for fun..., so yeah, a game
Something like elder scroll or breath of the wild though, are called RPG, not really "adventure game" in the strict sense of meaning

Boring weaboo stuff. Tried it multiple times actually since at some point a "game", which title I cannot remember right now, was hyped around the internet. I found myself getting bored extremely quickly. Since I thought "Hey, maybe it was just a bad one" I tried multiple other Visual Novels. Without any success. Guess what genre is on my "Don't show in my discovery queue"-list.

I'm happy if people enjoy those. To me, it's just another trash genre Steam is being spammed with.

VNs don't get much respect for a couple reasons, but I think it mostly boils down to differences in Western and Eastern interests. Westerners for the most part like the ability to make choices, prefer a blank or customizable character to insert into, dislike overt sexual tones, and are ok with violent tones. This is best characterized by games like Dungeons & Dragons, Mass Effect, or The Elder Scrolls series, which emphasize player choice and roleplaying over pre-defined character development.

Eastern/Japanese interests are not so easily simplified, but their games tend to be the opposite. Choices are less pro-active, usually being simple dialogue or choosing one of several people/factions to follow (Shin Megami Tensei/Way of the Samurai). On top of that some novels are 'kinetic' or completely without choice (Narcissu/Higurashi). Character personalities are usually left blank in dating sims, but most tend to be more like a play with the main character having his own traits and development (Umineko/Stein's Gate). The sexual tones part really shouldn't need explaining, seeing as how eroge and nukige are popular (Fate/Stay Night had porn added in and is now a billion-dollar property). Violent Japanese games exist, but they're not nearly as common as they are in the west.

VN-like games like the Zero Escape and Ace Attorney series have seen decent popularity in the West, so another big part might be that Westerners like game-like aspects more than book-like aspects. Still, I think that for VNs to become popular in the West, there need to be more 'non-weeb' visual novels that explore a Western touch to the genre instead of merely aping Eastern products.

Anyways, rant over. Some of the games I listed are still in my backlog, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about them. Thanks for the chance to win The House in Fata Morgana, it's been on my wishlist for a while.

But can any visual novel [..] really be called an adventure game on par with something like [..] an Elder Scrolls game?

If Elder Scrolls games can count as having plot and story, then Visual Novels can count as having gameplay- after all, they're both about on par, as far as their respective involvements with each go. That said, crossing over genre definitions for no reason rather undermines the entire point of having genres in the first place- VNs are fantastic, and share a lot (and sometimes are near-indistinguishable from) [point and click] adventure games, they're a big enough and distinct enough genre that there's no cause to forcibly fit them in under another genre label. In fact, doing so is effectively just a snub against other VNs, stating that the genre on a whole isn't good enough for recognition- and given how massive, successful, and uniquely rich the genre is on the whole, that's not only a baseless determination, it's an arrogant one.

So, if you're asking if VNs should be comparable to games like Elder Scrolls in general award determinations, then yes, quite so. If you're saying should VNs only achieve recognition by denying what they are then no, that's stupid. On the other hand, if you were going to classify VNs under top-level genre classifications, and you didn't have VNs & Interactive Novels as an established genre, Adventure would be the most accurate label. So perhaps the only basis for such an award lay in recognizing the accomplishments of a game, and fitting it under the most appropriate category currently available to that award-provider.

I think the most important thing to focus on is that story-driven/story-rich games, point and clicks, and visual novels are all surging in popularity in recent years and, for the first time in a while, once again surpassing our expectations on what gaming can offer as far as narrative and immersion. Regardless of how they're perceived by specific considerations, their overall popularity and constant evolution mean that we're bound to see even more cool story-rich gaming in the future.

anyone downloading it in hopes of boning digital teenagers would've been left hanging pretty quickly

You monster.

I like the occasional visual novel, but I kind of hate how they're almost always expected to be an anime dating sim set in a school, with a lot of them ending in porn scenes. Some people turn their noses up when they deviate from that structure, but there's so much you can do with them and it seems like 99% want to do the same thing.