I have no problem with VN's as a concept, or their existence on Steam, in the same way that I have no problem with choose your own adventure digital books, which also exist on Steam and share the same type of game-story style, even if with more stress on words and less on graphics.
I haven't played many VN's, and I think that only one I finished was Go Go Nippon! (thinking about it some more, there might have been another one, but I don't remember it). There are some themes that don't appeal to me much (highschool, dating and such), and some art styles that don't appeal to me, but on the whole it's a genre that I can play.
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I discovered VNs here on Steamgifts and I see them as something quite interesting. Similar to books and movies there are different genres inside Visual Novel genre and some appeal more to me than others. I don't mind some romance (I enjoyed Blue Rose a lot) but I don't want to read about just that. The House in Fata Morgana looks like a game I would truly enjoy but could you tell me how much focus is set on romance here? I couldn't find much about in the reviews and I don't want too much spoilers either :)
Thank you!
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I think there's a key distinction in that while most of the stories weaved throughout The House in Fata Morgana are love stories of a sort, they're not necessarily romance stories, with the overall plot focusing more on uncovering the truth - about the mansion and its history, and about your own past.
I won't deny that there are chapters where romance is something of a focus, but for the most part it serves to strengthen the backgrounds and motivations of characters.
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It's interesting that you defend VN genre !
My first VN on steam was "Go! Go! Nippon!". And it has long disgusted me from VN... Yes i see people like this specific game, because when i posted negative review years ago i received "you don't understand VN, delete your review".
Ok i admit i don't understand VN and deleted my review.
However now i understood that there are multiple sorts of VN and some can be more interactive, more attractive ! :p
Long live the queen sort of reconciled me with the genre. No... i still won't go back to go go nippon....
And recently, Soulslayer caught my interest thanks to it's investigation- historic drama ambiance aspect.
This starry midnight too offering some interaction playing with stars, i find it fun !
1931: Scheherazade at the Library of Pergamum was pleasant too, travelling around the world. i would never spend 20€ in a VN, but this one in a bundle was a good surprise !!!
To answer direcly on your explanations, i never noticed dokidoki but i see it's in the steam daily voting ! Will take a look to try to understand why this game is the "2017 goty".
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I wouldn' really compare VNs to point and click adventures; Some games may fall closer to one of the 'other genre' besides its main but at the core the philosophy and proposal is far diferent.
I have a interest in Visual Novels because i should be able to like then- i love narrative games, game books (choose your own adventure sort of games) and always loved good dialogue trees in rpgs with proper consequences. I even considered making one (currently learning unity, to put my design and gamedesign skills to practice) but was put away for two reasons:
-Couldn't get into any ive tried for a number of reasons (from bad design to plot and personal interest), so i failed to get into the genre to know it better like i did with pretty much every other.
-The kind of story and game i would do wouldn't be nothing like VNs, from not being anime style to barely getting into romance- too risky to invest
It would had been a no brainer for me from the angle of novelty and looking apart 'a visual novel unlike others'- but while i couldn't get into VNs ive readed a lot about then. Reviews. Comments. Criticism, praise... and other games most played by fans...
...and the results weren't encouraging- it seens being anime, around romance, day to day teen life, fantasy or power fantasy (the horror ones not far from those, not really) are main desired traits that make the bulk of the fandom (oh, and fan service as well).
...meaning a different VN would have a really big chance to flop, not even being noticed- heck, the ones who would look at it wouldn't want it, the ones that could like it wouldn't (since it would be a VN).
Wich btw may be the reason why we don't see non-anime VNs (and so many dating)- if theres one that isn't... it made 0 splash.
I see lots of potential there. They are proof narrative focused games around dialogues can go a number of ways (and even involve a number of systems, mechanics) and suceed as a game. Instead of wishing to some day put to test some ideas i have for dialogue and interactions in relationships (in general, not pretend romance) on some rpg (far bigger and more complex projects) i could focus solely on then going even deeper as a visual novel... but not being into anime id fail to cater to the demands and expectations.
Funny thing is i once had a interest in anime. Had fun with YuYu Hakusho and Dbz as a kid, loved Trigun and to this day i hold some titles on bordeline adoration in my heart (Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Monster, Ghibli)...
...so for a time i was all anime, looking for more... and more more being disapointed by the majority.
Until i came to the conclusion it isn't 'being anime' what i enjoyed - and the crux of the topic here: 'being anime' being the main if not sole draw for VNs.
Turns out, my theory, is that japanese creators who work with mangas/anime or simply by being fan of then thenselves naturally turn to the medium to tell stories- not to mention a huge comercial reason to do so. On some titles its even jarring how i can see 'inserts'- characters, scenes and episodes clearly inserted to cater to some genre expectations (like comedy) whitout any real need in the narrative.
From anime fan i became almost 'anti-anime'. Don't get me wrong theres good stories out there in anime and heck, Satoshi Kon is one of my favorite directors of all time(director and storyteller, not 'animator') and i still cry seeing some of his work. But nowadays a see it as great stories, great animated movies or series that happen to be in anime style. The genre itself, its staples? I see it more harmfull then anything, creativity killer even, stopping some great ideas of reaching what they could. Theres some few authors that i know who did actually made great anime/manga because of its nature and staples but really few gems- FLCL comes to mind, also One Punch and One Piece(i don't like one piece on personal taste but i can recognize good original work). But the 3 examples change the formula/expectations in some way and one works so well as anime precisely because(alongside the humor) its a pastiche/satire of animes in itself.
All that about anime is just because i see the same getting in the way of Visual Novels (not to mention some jrpgs). Jrpgs suffer less because the rpg genre can have so much meat that one can enjoy then even disliking the story or characters, so uneeded 'anime effect' on the game is easily overlooked- but VNs theres only 3 things to hook onto: story, interactions and style. 2 of the 3 require you to love anime and feeling yourself inside one for it being anime/manga style.
For example someone showed me some praised horror VN sometime ago.
I didn't reach the horror. Seeing friends and family acting in completely inhuman ways (anime way) imediatly ruined the vibe or beliaviability that would enhance a horror story. Anime fans can enjoy it because they don't mind that(even like it) and because they like it they can care for the characters. 'oh Mika is my waifu! I really hope she doesn't die'- works amazing just because of anime tropes and anime fandom, not the actual game or story. In the end its a disservice to horror, hijacked into a viable experience not because of the horror in itself.
And Doki Doki Dori is a exception also because of that- it bypasses the issue above via self awareness and pseudo-meta,ie, it becomes believable because it is about IAs in a visual novel(anime style). Heck, the more i look into the subject all good examples i find are the ones that set thenselves apart from 'anime' as what make then good...
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Finally, I finished reading it all, and that reminds me how I love Metroidvanias, and how some people are labeling games as "metroidvanias" just for being pixelart platformers, metroidvanias go far more than that, it's like comparing Super Mario Bros. to Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
I really love VNs, having NSFW content or not, principally when you see effort in the making, like Steins;Gate, not some run-of-the-mill Fox Hime, the story is cute and surprisingly at a fair price, but the engrish... oh God...
I had The House in Fata Morgana on my wishlist since release (I guess) but I never took the time to see whether it was fantasy or sci-fi, but with you're saying it's sci-fi I'm twice as interested.
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I love Visual Novels. Since I can't afford most of the more expensive ones though, I mostly only play the ones that are free. Steam really started having more and more VNs being released both paid and free, and I think we have Ren'Py to thanks for that.
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I haven't read the thread tbh but VNs are one of the best experiences I've had in gaming. I wish people would stop being so uncultured and ignorant to things like VNs and JRPGs.
Saying VNs are like porn and about little girls is idiotic. It would be like me saying all shooters have no story yet Wolfenstein, Prey, Quantum Break, Homefront etc are all games that prove that wrong.
Games like Higurashi, Steins;Gate, Clannad, Fate, Danganronpa, Root Double etc cover a wide range of genres such as dark humor, sci-fi, murder mystery, romance etc and cover subjects like history, time travel, politics, rape and murder, love etc. None of these are about girls with cat ears and fluffy tails with maid outfits...
Most of these people complaining about anime games in general and VNs are just stupid and probably don't like reading. Anime games have made me laugh, cry, get angry, excited more than most other games. Sure there are pervy games but like any other media it will.. Like I'm not a big fan of comedy movies because it's trying to be purposely funny and most of the time feels forced but I know that people love it. They're not shit as a genre, I just don't like them personally. Doesn't mean I should go around saying people have no sense of humour and put down anyone that enjoys them.
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I've been an avid reader as far back as I can remember; I was devouring 'chapter novels' by kindergarten and had to get permission to check out books years above my reading level from the elementary library. It was around that same time - twenty years ago this Christmas, in fact - that I was given a Game Boy Pocket as a birthday present, and Santa brought the family a Nintendo 64. Gaming and reading were really the first two hobbies I had, and to me, visual novels seem like a great union of the two.
Naturally, there are plenty who don't share that sentiment. While the number of VNs on Steam has exploded in the last few years, neither gamers or publishers seem to give them much respect. Publishers routinely release subpar ports, often with poor translations or dozens of typos and errors. 'Hardcore' gamers deride them all as porn games or call for them to be removed for not being games at all (which is a bad take, given that Steam also sells hardware, software, and videos). Naturally, there's plenty of low quality products, or clearly censored ero VNs, but to ignore everything available because some unworthy content exists is to throw away an entire banquet over a single bottle of wine spilled.
I think the recent release of Doki Doki Literature Club is a good enough excuse to start examining how the gaming community at large looks at the genre. A guy known for developing Twitch plugins and Smash Bros mods takes some time off to develop his own game, only to surprise everyone with what looks like an anime dating sim. Sure, it's short, free, and much deeper than how it looks on the surface. But it's not what any of his followers would have expected, and the product description doesn't make it seem anything but earnest. People who weren't interested in the genre shouldn't have seen a reason to try it, and anyone downloading it in hopes of boning digital teenagers would've been left hanging pretty quickly. On the surface, it's a recipe for failure.
Despite the odds, though, Doki Doki Literature Club was a smash hit, garnering over 45,000 positive reviews on Steam and taking home four IGN People's Choice awards, up to and including Best PC Game of 2017. People latched on to the game beneath the cutesy exterior; the characters all had their own complexities, the game managed to tell a moving story, and it utilizes the Ren'Py engine in ways I'd never even thought about doing. It's absolutely a worthwhile experience, especially for how short it is; if you haven't already given it a shot, go do it (without spoiling yourself first).
The question becomes whether or not DDLC's wins were entirely deserved. I'm not arguing against it being a great game - it certainly is, although I don't doubt that a good chunk of its popularity is from those latching on for the meme potential. But does it really deserve an award as an Adventure game? Certainly if you go by the classic definition of anything point-and-click being an 'adventure' game, it qualifies; you can probably complete the entire game with just a mouse. But can any visual novel - regardless of how many branches or routes you're free to pick from - really be called an adventure game on par with something like Breath of the Wild or an Elder Scrolls game? You can absolutely have a novel that brings about a sense of journey and exploration - the fantasy genre as a whole relies on it. But there's a clear difference between that and exploring for yourself; it's one of the shortcomings of one genre and the defining feature of another.
I suppose that through the rambling, what I'm trying to say is this: visual novels absolutely have their place on Steam, regardless of which interactive elements they have or lack. At the same time, it's important to understand that every genre has its own strengths and weaknesses, even if those weaknesses aren't actual flaws.
In closing, here's a giveaway for my favorite VN release of last year: The House in Fata Morgana. For those who don't like overly cutesy anime styles, Fata Morgana at least tries something different. If you're convinced that every VN is anime porn, you'll disappoint yourself trying to find any nudity, censored for Steam or otherwise. It's not a perfect game - I think there are a couple chapters that go out of their way to explain what's already reasonably implied, and for as much as I enjoyed the soundtrack as a whole there are a couple tracks that are pretty grating. In a way it's more of a romance novel than anything; as a guy who mostly reads sci-fi, fantasy, or horror, that should tell you how much I enjoyed it, even when it did play up some anime cliches on occasion. If you've had this on your wishlist, or simply if your interest is piqued, you have until noon (EST) on New Year's Eve to enter; the only requirement is being level 1 or higher.
Good Luck, Happy Holidays, and thanks for reading!
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