I had sent you the following:
I would like to say something...
I've noticed you're very strong at puzzles. I usually give a blue heart to such people, who are demonstrably not bots.
But your giveaway history, with so few entries, looks exploitative and is blacklisting material.
Why are you doing this, man?
Perhaps I should have used the word unfair or advantageous, instead of exploitative.
What I'm trying to say is that I feel at a disadvantage because you can participate in my giveaways and I can't in yours. I feel like you have me, as well as most members here, on a one-way blacklist.
Oh OK I get it now: you consider being part of multiple groups (with SG specific rules) as a form of blacklist for the others. Sorry english is not my main language.
I can give you a decent explanation: history. You've been here for 5 years, me it have been for 10. I have witnessed the increase in various negative behaviors that SG.com had to come through: the rise of regifting, the diverse waves of bots and auto-entry scripts, the multi-accounts, the unscrupulous leakers of private giveaways (very often hidden behind ingenious and hard puzzles), the multiple attempts to change the SG.com rules that caused significant damage to our levels and our good mood... In the end, only doing group giveaways was a way for me to discard annoyance with erratic winners and save time. Of course I won't lie, it is also a way to optimize the draws for every dollars spent, which could be associated with greed and I can acquiesce.
I'll be honest with you: it's the first time someone has explained this point in that way (or I may have missed public thread on the subject), your argument is solid and valid, I kind of agree with you... because I was in the same position before, before joining these groups myself and so I know what you feel. But there is one "easy" solution: join us! :)
I don't have the power to convince admins of these private groups to enroll you (although I can try if you have group names in mind :D), some of them may still have a recruitment thread available in the discussion section. Group rules could be annoying sometimes but it can be overcome with regular discipline. There is also the repercussion of not gaining levels anymore: ratio constraints will reduce entries for your giveaways and you may have less than 5 people on the list. Not an issue for me, I've been stuck at the same level since before you joined the website :P
If you're the kind of person who definitely prefers public giveaways, as a way to encourage others and globally increase one inch at a time the generosity within this community, I admire the optimism. However one day you will have to deal with a real as***le, a 2nd one, a third random guy, revealing your key and wasting your time, asking for reroll on the dusk of the 6th day or lying to support, immediately regifting the key you provided, who doesn't even respond to your private messages or emails... You will feel/learn the hard way that some people here are real jerks and love to act that way. I did a lot of public giveaways at the beginning, even for AAA games. I stopped after multiple bad experiences within a short period of time, experiences that I never encountered again with group giveaways. Best decision I made, at least for the sake of my mental health. I hope you will understand, no offense if you're still mad at me.
An addition: there were a time when there were a LOT MORE invite-only giveaways accessible through solving puzzles. At the point of been almost 100% of my wins during some weeks. Over the years I have perfected my skills in solving enigmas and other cryptic messages, I loved these days. Today these are very rare, to the point of having mean complaints of new people who don't understand the concept and the simple fun of being challenged. I still keep the habit of lurking on the forum here, and looking out for puzzles, riddles etc. Your giveaway was definitely one of them, there is an extra enjoyment in winning because of the additional and funny steps to reach the final link, so I thank you twice.
Thank you for your time. You could reply later, don't waste your holiday time.
Let me say something first. A few months ago, I had discovered 6 members where they had multiple private giveaways with exactly 5 entries (1 the creator and the other 5 = 6). They were probably the first ones I blacklisted. Also they are good at puzzles, all of them, I have seen in a giveaway behind a puzzle with 30 entries, all 6 have participated, one could say that behind these 6 accounts is the same person or apart from their own links, they share others that shouldn't...
I've become quite suspicious since then. And the tactics you are using now reminded me of the tactics of the above members...
But yes, you're right, since they're made for groups, they should go along with the respective rules.
Just my suspicion, made me think that this group is among your friends, so that no one but your friends can access them. Thanks for clearing everything up and I hope you'll forgive my suspicion. 🙃
One more thing I wanted to say about puzzles. Are you thinking of making one for us at some point, since you are more experienced with these? Because many of us enjoy solving them. ☺
"the tactics you are using now reminded me of the tactics of the above member"
I'm still not sure to understand what you are refering to...Is it about the few entries on my last group giveaways? Because it is quite common when exchanging gifts in groups with rules. I'm member of groups with at least 50 members, as I said the very low entries is due to the fact that these groups practice heavy ratio rules = a threshold of winning before being kicked for good (which have the consequence to have a small entry list per gift). Some of them are my Steam friends today but it's only circonstantial, like you: they added me to give me a Steam gift (and don't removed me), or it could be because of duplicated keys and we had to enter discussions with Steam chat to test more keys, which is more convenient.
By the way you are perfectly right to be suspicious on private giveaways. As I previously said I already succeeded to solve a long list of very hard puzzles through years here, and for the hardest when I saw more than 10-15 people, I often do investigation myself. Like you, it happens I also found the same kind of people who shared leaked invite-only giveaways, by crossing informations on their shared Steam group, their friend list etc. I already discovered people entering private giveaways almost at the same moment, all Steam friends, sharing 2-3 very small group or participating in the same obscure forum/board outside SG or Steam... It could be a multi-account guy, family members, or just close friends...
What I suggest you to do next time: I HIGHLY recommend you to give every recolted proofs and details to the creator of these puzzles, like I have done. The creator (which will respond positively most of the time) can then have the ability to ask SG support for a more precise investigation (like analysis of entry time, review of regional position + groups + their private giveaways...) and it can end with a definitive ban. Leaking giveaways is a heavy felony recognized by the SG moderation and support, and it may sometimes conduce to repercussions :)
Regarding puzzles I could have organized myself well... sometimes I felt that I missed opportunity to have make that kind of contributions. Today, I definitively don't have enough time to organize these cool events with linked puzzles and invite-only big trains, where I enjoy wasting the rest of my time... Yeah I know it's a complete paradox LOL. Let's say that I'm too lazy then :D
Lately, 2 people have made great events with ingenious enigmas, TomasMacMordain and Dog. Keep an eye on the "Puzzles/Events" sub-forum, and especially on these 2 cool and generous guys.
By your tactic, I meant what I had misinterpreted. How do you only give to your friends, which is not true. Wrong word again... damn it... I totally get what you mean, you can't go against group rules. And I personally would like to take part in some groups, but their rules, such as creating regular giveaways, I won't be able to follow.
Me and another member have informed the 2 puzzle creators you mentioned. But if they don't want to blacklist members, we can't do anything. What if I mentioned that either 4-6 people or none of them will participate in all the giveaways that are behind puzzles? What if I mentioned that at a certain moment another account had taken part in a giveaway, while another account left a message in the corresponding puzzle thread about how they solved it? What if I mentioned that Masafor has them on his suspect list? What if I suggested as an alternative that he blacklists all but one so doesn't have a better chance of winning? I had collected these facts. Am I paranoid? Maybe, but I'm definitely allergic to injustice.
As for the suggestion to make a puzzle, I wanted it more to get more ideas. Don't worry about it.
And to clarify my original point. Absolutely, I'm never going to blacklist you. But it's also not easy for me to whitelist you, at least for now.
So this is not a legend: there is a real Masafor suspect list somewhere! :D
Do you have a link, just to have a quick look and maybe cross-compare with details I gathered about other SG members?
Well, Masafor blacklisted me and kicked me from groups where he was admin a long time ago ; if it wasn't for considering me as too greedy (which I could easily understand) maybe like you did he suspected me to have a suspicious behavior but based on too paranoid arguments (and I hope I'm not on that list :( )
That's what they told me. Not Masafor himself. I don't have the link, nor have I seen the list. I'm afraid I'll see my name there... Anyone who is a member of his group has access to it.
On the one hand my difficulty with English, on the other hand the creation of exclusive giveaways for the group, prevented me from applying. If I'm not mistaken, it used to have regular and exclusive giveaways too, but removed it.
If you would like a tip, I would suggest not making all your giveaways for such small groups. Like Masafor, or like me, there will be other members who react when they see your past giveaways.
I'm not saying this so that I can take part. If you want, you can set a rule that only those who have given at least half of what they have won can take part. :)
Dude, can you accept my friend request?
Edit: See you in about 10 hours.
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Hello, sorry the new Steam UI is now not very explicit about new contacts and I didn't notice your invitation :(
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I had sent you the following:
I would like to say something...
I've noticed you're very strong at puzzles. I usually give a blue heart to such people, who are demonstrably not bots.
But your giveaway history, with so few entries, looks exploitative and is blacklisting material.
Why are you doing this, man?
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I'm not sure to follow... What do you mean by "exploitative" and "blacklisting material"? Give me details because it's not very explicit.
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Perhaps I should have used the word unfair or advantageous, instead of exploitative.
What I'm trying to say is that I feel at a disadvantage because you can participate in my giveaways and I can't in yours. I feel like you have me, as well as most members here, on a one-way blacklist.
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Oh OK I get it now: you consider being part of multiple groups (with SG specific rules) as a form of blacklist for the others. Sorry english is not my main language.
I can give you a decent explanation: history. You've been here for 5 years, me it have been for 10. I have witnessed the increase in various negative behaviors that SG.com had to come through: the rise of regifting, the diverse waves of bots and auto-entry scripts, the multi-accounts, the unscrupulous leakers of private giveaways (very often hidden behind ingenious and hard puzzles), the multiple attempts to change the SG.com rules that caused significant damage to our levels and our good mood... In the end, only doing group giveaways was a way for me to discard annoyance with erratic winners and save time. Of course I won't lie, it is also a way to optimize the draws for every dollars spent, which could be associated with greed and I can acquiesce.
I'll be honest with you: it's the first time someone has explained this point in that way (or I may have missed public thread on the subject), your argument is solid and valid, I kind of agree with you... because I was in the same position before, before joining these groups myself and so I know what you feel. But there is one "easy" solution: join us! :)
I don't have the power to convince admins of these private groups to enroll you (although I can try if you have group names in mind :D), some of them may still have a recruitment thread available in the discussion section. Group rules could be annoying sometimes but it can be overcome with regular discipline. There is also the repercussion of not gaining levels anymore: ratio constraints will reduce entries for your giveaways and you may have less than 5 people on the list. Not an issue for me, I've been stuck at the same level since before you joined the website :P
If you're the kind of person who definitely prefers public giveaways, as a way to encourage others and globally increase one inch at a time the generosity within this community, I admire the optimism. However one day you will have to deal with a real as***le, a 2nd one, a third random guy, revealing your key and wasting your time, asking for reroll on the dusk of the 6th day or lying to support, immediately regifting the key you provided, who doesn't even respond to your private messages or emails... You will feel/learn the hard way that some people here are real jerks and love to act that way. I did a lot of public giveaways at the beginning, even for AAA games. I stopped after multiple bad experiences within a short period of time, experiences that I never encountered again with group giveaways. Best decision I made, at least for the sake of my mental health. I hope you will understand, no offense if you're still mad at me.
An addition: there were a time when there were a LOT MORE invite-only giveaways accessible through solving puzzles. At the point of been almost 100% of my wins during some weeks. Over the years I have perfected my skills in solving enigmas and other cryptic messages, I loved these days. Today these are very rare, to the point of having mean complaints of new people who don't understand the concept and the simple fun of being challenged. I still keep the habit of lurking on the forum here, and looking out for puzzles, riddles etc. Your giveaway was definitely one of them, there is an extra enjoyment in winning because of the additional and funny steps to reach the final link, so I thank you twice.
Have a nice day :)
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Thank you for your time. You could reply later, don't waste your holiday time.
Let me say something first. A few months ago, I had discovered 6 members where they had multiple private giveaways with exactly 5 entries (1 the creator and the other 5 = 6). They were probably the first ones I blacklisted. Also they are good at puzzles, all of them, I have seen in a giveaway behind a puzzle with 30 entries, all 6 have participated, one could say that behind these 6 accounts is the same person or apart from their own links, they share others that shouldn't...
I've become quite suspicious since then. And the tactics you are using now reminded me of the tactics of the above members...
But yes, you're right, since they're made for groups, they should go along with the respective rules.
Just my suspicion, made me think that this group is among your friends, so that no one but your friends can access them. Thanks for clearing everything up and I hope you'll forgive my suspicion. 🙃
One more thing I wanted to say about puzzles. Are you thinking of making one for us at some point, since you are more experienced with these? Because many of us enjoy solving them. ☺
I wish my English was fluent like yours.
Have a great day! :)
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"the tactics you are using now reminded me of the tactics of the above member"
I'm still not sure to understand what you are refering to...Is it about the few entries on my last group giveaways? Because it is quite common when exchanging gifts in groups with rules. I'm member of groups with at least 50 members, as I said the very low entries is due to the fact that these groups practice heavy ratio rules = a threshold of winning before being kicked for good (which have the consequence to have a small entry list per gift). Some of them are my Steam friends today but it's only circonstantial, like you: they added me to give me a Steam gift (and don't removed me), or it could be because of duplicated keys and we had to enter discussions with Steam chat to test more keys, which is more convenient.
By the way you are perfectly right to be suspicious on private giveaways. As I previously said I already succeeded to solve a long list of very hard puzzles through years here, and for the hardest when I saw more than 10-15 people, I often do investigation myself. Like you, it happens I also found the same kind of people who shared leaked invite-only giveaways, by crossing informations on their shared Steam group, their friend list etc. I already discovered people entering private giveaways almost at the same moment, all Steam friends, sharing 2-3 very small group or participating in the same obscure forum/board outside SG or Steam... It could be a multi-account guy, family members, or just close friends...
What I suggest you to do next time: I HIGHLY recommend you to give every recolted proofs and details to the creator of these puzzles, like I have done. The creator (which will respond positively most of the time) can then have the ability to ask SG support for a more precise investigation (like analysis of entry time, review of regional position + groups + their private giveaways...) and it can end with a definitive ban. Leaking giveaways is a heavy felony recognized by the SG moderation and support, and it may sometimes conduce to repercussions :)
Regarding puzzles I could have organized myself well... sometimes I felt that I missed opportunity to have make that kind of contributions. Today, I definitively don't have enough time to organize these cool events with linked puzzles and invite-only big trains, where I enjoy wasting the rest of my time... Yeah I know it's a complete paradox LOL. Let's say that I'm too lazy then :D
Lately, 2 people have made great events with ingenious enigmas, TomasMacMordain and Dog. Keep an eye on the "Puzzles/Events" sub-forum, and especially on these 2 cool and generous guys.
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By your tactic, I meant what I had misinterpreted. How do you only give to your friends, which is not true. Wrong word again... damn it... I totally get what you mean, you can't go against group rules. And I personally would like to take part in some groups, but their rules, such as creating regular giveaways, I won't be able to follow.
Me and another member have informed the 2 puzzle creators you mentioned. But if they don't want to blacklist members, we can't do anything. What if I mentioned that either 4-6 people or none of them will participate in all the giveaways that are behind puzzles? What if I mentioned that at a certain moment another account had taken part in a giveaway, while another account left a message in the corresponding puzzle thread about how they solved it? What if I mentioned that Masafor has them on his suspect list? What if I suggested as an alternative that he blacklists all but one so doesn't have a better chance of winning? I had collected these facts. Am I paranoid? Maybe, but I'm definitely allergic to injustice.
As for the suggestion to make a puzzle, I wanted it more to get more ideas. Don't worry about it.
And to clarify my original point. Absolutely, I'm never going to blacklist you. But it's also not easy for me to whitelist you, at least for now.
Have a great day! :)
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So this is not a legend: there is a real Masafor suspect list somewhere! :D
Do you have a link, just to have a quick look and maybe cross-compare with details I gathered about other SG members?
Well, Masafor blacklisted me and kicked me from groups where he was admin a long time ago ; if it wasn't for considering me as too greedy (which I could easily understand) maybe like you did he suspected me to have a suspicious behavior but based on too paranoid arguments (and I hope I'm not on that list :( )
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That's what they told me. Not Masafor himself. I don't have the link, nor have I seen the list. I'm afraid I'll see my name there... Anyone who is a member of his group has access to it.
On the one hand my difficulty with English, on the other hand the creation of exclusive giveaways for the group, prevented me from applying. If I'm not mistaken, it used to have regular and exclusive giveaways too, but removed it.
If you would like a tip, I would suggest not making all your giveaways for such small groups. Like Masafor, or like me, there will be other members who react when they see your past giveaways.
I'm not saying this so that I can take part. If you want, you can set a rule that only those who have given at least half of what they have won can take part. :)
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