Great change ! There are enough places elsewhere on the internet to talk about sensible topics.
If there are libraries for reading and toilets for taking a dump, there's a good reason that they're two different places.
Comment has been collapsed.
The issue here is that taking a dump is not something that needs to be defined. It's a fact.
"Sensible" topics though can mean anything and everything depending on who you ask.
Someone says Xmas celebration on SG should also be canceled then, since it's a religious holiday. Can you argue with that?
Comment has been collapsed.
Your point is really interesting, i'll try to answer it.
I was raised as a catholic (i'm not a good one however) so to answer you, yes i could understand that to be canceled but i'm not sure most people would be happy to received less gifts ! ;)
Here in this country (France) we consider secularism to be important. However most people are atheists and celebrate Xmas, and some muslims too do it for the children. Not going to church, but the tree, the gifts, the family meal, this sort of thing. Like for some muslim celebrations, some atheists and christians here don't go to mosquees but are invited by muslims families to share the sheep or eat these (really amazing) moroccan pastries ! :d
More generally, steam has been calling this period Winter Sales for years to remove the religious aspect and keep only what can be shared without offending. And i think it's a good idea. I understand that all religious proselytizing is forbidden, as religion is something you keep to yourself.
About this specific website (Steamgifts), i'm more than happy than we still meet Ukrainians, Russians, Americans, Chinese, Israeliens and Palestinians in the same place and that we gift without considering who is the receiver. I would consider this place to be sort of like... the olympic games truce ? :D
Even when French fighted the German in a terrible war, some celebrated Xmas in the trench together for a short time, it's a famous story.
Comment has been collapsed.
So, it becomes clear that we owe this result to one single troll. (E.g., see this comment for an explanation).
It also becomes clear that Christmas threads are now under threat of being closed. This is a religious holiday that offends many sensitive people and is at the very least somewhat controversial.
So we literally have a troll who stole Christmas. 🤦
Comment has been collapsed.
Really sad that instead of banning the bunch of nazi trolls our dear administration are closing the threads. You can even count almost every troll here that participated in spamming
Comment has been collapsed.
I have some opinions some would consider radical. But, i am very careful not crossing too many lines as i believe if i am banned again it is final and permanent. So my presence here is on a thin line, i mostly feel like i want to contribute to the games discussions as that is the site's purpose. Secondly non polarizing OT topics such as movies etc.
Comment has been collapsed.
Almost everyone have some radical opinions, I am sure of it, and I agree that most of the time we need to keep them to ourselves. But the discussion is the key point were the truth and understanding can be reached. We can`t just shut off all the "sensitive topics" because some trolls and CRAZY463708 in particular decided to shit on the fan
Comment has been collapsed.
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡠⣄⡀⠀⠀⡠⠞⠛⢦⣠⢤⡀⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⢠⠏⠀⠀⢱⡀⣸⠁⠀⡴⠋⠀⠀⣹⠀
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡴⠋⠉⢿⢀⡤⠶⣴⠇⣯⠀⣼⠁⠀⢀⡴⠷⣄
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠞⠁⠀⣀⡾⠋⠀⠀⢹⣼⠁⢠⡇⠀⡴⠋⠀⠀⡼
⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠊⠑⢦⠀⡴⠋⢀⣠⠞⠉⠀⠀⠀⣠⣿⠧⣄⡾⠁⡼⠁⣀⣤⠾⡁
⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⣨⠟⠁⢠⡞⠁⠀⠀⠀⣠⡾⠛⠁⠀⣿⠃⣰⠃⣴⠋⠀⠀⣷
⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⢠⠞⠁⠀⢠⠏⠀⠀⢀⡴⠋⠁⠀⢀⣠⡴⠿⣶⡇⢰⠇⠀⠀⢠⠇
⠀⠀⠀⢠⢿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠉⠀⠀⣠⠞⠁⠀⡴⠚⠉⠁⠀⢀⡟⠀⣼⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀
⠀⠀⠀⡾⣼⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⣠⠞⠁⠀⠀⢀⡴⠋⠙⢼⠃⠀⠀⠀⣸⠀
⠀⠀⠀⡇⠉⡎⠀⣰⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⠀⠀⡼⠉⠀⠀⠀⠘⠂⠀⠀⣠⠇⠀
⠀⠀⠀⡇⢸⠀⣰⠃⠀⡴⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⠞⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⠖⠁⠀⠀
⠀⠀⢸⠁⡏⢠⠃⢀⠞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣠⠖⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⡞⠀⠃⡎⢀⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡏⠀⣀⡤⠴⠚⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡴⢺⠇⠀⠀⠀⠞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡾⠒⠋⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⡇⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢠⠞⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⢳⡀⠘⢦⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠋⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠳⣄⠀⠙⠲⣤⣀⣠⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
⠀⠀⠈⠓⠦⣄⣀⡠⠎⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Comment has been collapsed.
I think this is overreacting to one particular thread that has been open, from the OP's obvious behavior in the other thread, to troll and provoke.
When the clear intent of a thread is to piss off people, regular moderating dictates it should be closed, whatever the pretend topic is.
I'm going to see how things turn out but I'm going to be honest, if point 2 leads to the kind of "grab game on Steam for free" threads that some obviously want, I may check out entirely, with regret, from SG.
A community dies without the ability and the will to share opinions. If it's done respectfully, it's a good thing, no matter what the topic is.
If it's not, then the disrespectful posters should be removed. Blanket-banning of topics is letting the trolls win.
I'm not staying around to see that happen.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yep, not the the theme of a topic makes it toxic it is the ones who participate in it who can pervert it to be toxic.
Comment has been collapsed.
cg operates in a bubble. I don't see the value in arguing for or against this ruling. Is it completely subjective? Yes. Does it allow for greater arbitrary decisions made by mods? Of course. But...cg operates in a self imposed bubble. I can't think of a time where cg has directly responded to critiques. This is a dude who asks for Patreon support while also collecting ad revenue, but refuses to offer any disclosure of the site's actual financial standing to the people financially supporting the site and presumably also funding some fishing trips.
The point being....while I'm all for having a go at the new guidelines, I would very definitely temper your expectations as far as cg responding to or even acknowledging your concerns.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thanks for this. There are no easy or perfect answers for the messy realities of speech, but I am glad to see that The Powers Here are actively grappling - mindful of keeping this place "a welcoming place to both new and existing users," which it so mostly has been.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thank you! Happy to go back to only seeing gaming threads.
Comment has been collapsed.
Probably a good change concidering all the drama these topics entails.
Comment has been collapsed.
Considering all the drama in that thread, I'm glad it has happened. But I'm sorry this had to be done.
Comment has been collapsed.
Those war threads sucked but censorship is worse. Also it's October, how you gonna ban the support of terrorists during the most terrifying month? Smh everybody like "I'm a victim" but they really only victims of being lame af
Comment has been collapsed.
I understand, but respectfully disagree.
I am also in the team that thinks this is dangerous, since "sensitive subjects" is a bit vague, and trolls might be hostile on purpose to have threads closed. I think it would be better to provide users with tools to "hide" unwanted topics.
Even this very thread already became a bit divisive... should we close it? (Sarcasm off, sorry.)
But again: I do understand; we will see what effect this has on the community, and we can finetune or change things later, I guess.
Cheers!
Comment has been collapsed.
So....would this thread be considered sensitive material based on the new criteria? It seems to be.
Comment has been collapsed.
This should be a case study of how one Hamas troll managed to cripple and manipulate an entire site to suit his needs
Comment has been collapsed.
That's... actually terrifying to consider, but it seems to be the case. This is a sad day for this community.
Comment has been collapsed.
You know it's not true, and there are many other issues that sparkled this change. It's not about one user like you write, but months of people getting more polarized and angry, and use SG as their place to "safely" unload their anger. As we were having open approach to discussion, without any preemptive bans.
People saw that people attack each other before in another war thread, so they felt it's safe and fine to open new thread where they will repeat the same. Even thought it's allowed to open a thread with so much gore, I did not even want to open more than a few top links to close it immediately.
Comment has been collapsed.
You know it's not true.
You don't get to tell anyone here what they "actually think", otherwise it's just textbook gaslighting.
Out of many things that are wrong with this site and could be improved, one is definitely this lazy laissez faire approach from higher up mods and administration. This is a rule that was cobbled up over the night as a response to one particular thread and because that particular thread one wasn't moderated efficiently or on time, now we have to deal with these hastily made changes (not to mention the other two threads that are now closed as a collateral).
That Hamas troll should have been booted off site by the end of the day for that propaganda & gore filled thread, but instead you let him have his way on the damage of the community. Good job, everyone!
Comment has been collapsed.
You should make it clear what you write is your opinion. You can have any opinion, what you can't do is leave such messages that make it look like it's actual support conclusion and an "official" reason for this change. We did not change the rules because of one user. If you want to discard all the hate and negativity that was brewing in Ukraine thread - you can. But Palestine, and then Israel, threads did not pop up out of nowhere here. They were made because people felt they can post whatever they want here, due to open approach of admin. And it did backfire, as no one predicted 5 or 10 years ago that people will get that polarized. And having pretty much open forum (minus couple things like personal attacks or begging) will not work forever.
Out of many things that are wrong with this site and could be improved, one is definitely this lazy laissez faire approach from higher up mods and administration.
We moderate the site in a way administrator wants it, that's how stuff works. If you're told by a boss to do work in a specific way, you don't do it the other way around and complain you were talked to. No one will go after people calling each other moron just because you want it. Unless you persuade the administrator to change their mind. You did not go to Ukraine or Palestine or Israel thread to tell people to chill down, even when exchanges there were way out of the line. Sure, you cannot give suspension extension, but you can remind people to stay civil or suspend for spam or inappropriate behavior. Not sure how you try to take shots at "higher ups" here.
This is a rule that was cobbled up over the night as a response to one particular thread and because that particular thread one wasn't moderated efficiently or on time, now we have to deal with these hastily made changes
This is a rule that had to be made, and cg explained why in the discussion that was created for us to discuss it. It's not something we had time to discuss for a week or month. It can, and most probably will, be refined over time. But there was no reason to wait and allow those negativity focused threads to fester. I did personally not want to see Ukraine thread gone, though what people did there last time did give me more doubts. But allowing one thread where people attack each other, while banning others, would be clearly biased. So I understand why it was done.
That Hamas troll should have been booted off site by the end of the day for that propaganda & gore filled thread, but instead you let him have his way on the damage of the community. Good job, everyone!
And what about the other user that posted a thread full of disgusting photos and videos of people being killed or burned corpses? This one was fine? You are clearly one-sided here. If anything, we should suspend everyone who was posting gore, saying that killing civilians is fine, or that killing children is fine as they will grow up to be terrorists. Instead, we changed rules to not allow this kind of debate in the future, and closed threads.
If you don't agree with how moderation is being done - you could voice it before in threads where cg was asking us for feedback. Instead, you decide not to give feedback, and then go to complain in the forum. I used to be a comment moderator on another website, but when admin decided to promote gray market sites - I opposed it. And when he pushed forward anyway - decided to stop volunteering my time. As I could no longer support their decision, that was IMO a money grab at the expense of users security. You can't live in limbo where you are moderator, but at the same time fundamentally disagree with how moderation should be done. It can lead only to frustration.
I am ending here, as it's off-topic.
Comment has been collapsed.
I am ending here, as it's off-topic.
🤔I appreciated the opportunity to hear interesting stories from two people who are engaged in support activities.
Discord is going to give out warnings instead of permanent bans - The Verge
Discord is moving away from permanent bans for violations that aren't 'extremely harmful' | PC Gamer
Very recently there has been such a move.
I guess similar problems on the Internet are increasing after all.
I feel that we need to devise ways to reduce supporter difficulties for the future.
I think I have seen some people talking about using the money invested in Patreon for the benefit of supporters.
I know this is off subject, but why don't you write down the requests you would like CG to do with the funds or something at this time?
In any case, it is off-topic, so no need to reply at all if you don't have time.
Thank you for doing your regular support work as well in these difficult times.
Comment has been collapsed.
While we're at censoring things, can we please ban vegetable references? I'm more of a tomato person and therefore feel offended by constant "potato" polls
/s
Comment has been collapsed.
Typical tomato lover behaviour, no respect for the potatoes smh....
Comment has been collapsed.
And no more cat threads. Some people prefer dogs, you know. And definitely no Movember, I'm sure that there are people out there who strongly dislike testicles.
Comment has been collapsed.
While the Israel thread was controversial to say the least and I was the first to already say that it would cause a lot of toxic responses (some "attacked" me for having my own personal threads, but whatever). The majority (anonymous) of that poll did vote against this sort of stuff on the site, but many with reason were afraid to speak out. But i am very sure that poll did factor in with CG.
Are there trolls? For sure. But i also very strongly believe we live in a society these days where basically half the world is of a different opinion then the other, just look every time at the american votes how close it is to 50-50 (it's also what i am saying it's missing a center party, just like in our country where it's left or right) but with that no to little respect to the other persons views and opinions and thus feel the need to just bash the other person, and it's especially so easy when ti's all anonymous on a thing called the internet.
I been here long enough, we had outrageous topics years ago, where we could have said basically anything, do anything (to a point) but the SG society always kept it somewhat civil with eachother, heck even fun, and from what i heared (i haven't been there) in the very start apperently there was even a mod/admin that was swearing a lot, but the last 3-4 years when people left (and probably this will make people leave again) this forum also changed and we kept it less civil in certain threads.
I am sure we will "survive" this decision, and if people so desperately want to talk about these wars i am sure there are more appropriate places for it.
And yes CG does need to step out of his bubble, show himself more, be a part of his own site.
Comment has been collapsed.
On the other side i saw a post yesterday about someone leaving about the toxicity here in those threads (especially the last one). I guess he changed his mind because i can't find back the thread. Either side being chosen people will leave.
Comment has been collapsed.
well one thing is that thru those off-topic discussions I have blacklisted people. Without those discussions I would not have known that they have opinions I can not condone.
Comment has been collapsed.
I am not usually very engaged with the forums on this site and I self consciously refrain from political commentary here.
That being said, removing "hard" or unconfortable topics is never the way to bring a community together. In fact, I think that the current trend to avoid discussions and the immense power of our information feedback loops that is ever more prevalent in social networking are burning bridges between people that would otherwise consider themselves friends and would work for the common good. I think this stance will harm steamgifts in the long run and will give too much power to people that only want to create drama.
Comment has been collapsed.
Nice. SG is not about politics. As some Steam forums became.
But I guess it will be hard to manage all topics manually.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think the management itself will be hard, since controversial topics by nature get more discussed, it'd be quite easy to spot them and a single read can be enough to determine if people are discussing with or without hostility.
Comment has been collapsed.
A little disappointing, but, understandable. At the end of the day, it can be just as subjective to decide who is or not using those topics to cause hate. e.g. Just as it is hard to choose a topic to close due to this new policies, it might be even harder to just punish a person for their comments.
In that regard, closing the topic to avoid the discussion in the first place, seems to be the most neutral solution, to not censor an individual for their opinions alone. However, I still believe that people should still be responsible for their own opinions, we do already have the 4th rule for that. Since discussion itself is not the problem, polarization is not the problem, it all comes down to discrimination, harassment and hostility.
Comment has been collapsed.
Any topic can became controversial if you get enough trolls. I've seen this happening too often in the past, in the old forums.
The order is:
1-Lack of moderation.
2- Trolls rampant
3- Positive people that contrtibutes a lot gets frustrated and leaves
4- Site slowly dies
Please. Review this decisions, censorship is never the solution in this case.
Comment has been collapsed.
No discussion regarding Number 1.
But Number 2 is worded so poorly that it opens Pandora's Box. By this wording, SG becomes a fascist forum. Very, VERY bad choice of words, CG!
Comment has been collapsed.
Wonderful. The forums were nice and quiet when the idiots were all confined to arguing in just a couple of threads that I could hide and ignore.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't really get this solution - it seems overly complicated and susceptible to heavy handed decisions. What was wrong with creating a new category for controversial subjects that could be hidden by people who don't want to see it every day on the top of the discussion list? I understand why many who use the site for recreation and relaxation object to being reminded that the world is going to hell - perhaps they are here to escape that. I feel that way too some days, even though I read and participate in both of the now closed topics. It seems like such a simple and elegant solution that might satisfy people on both sides of the issue. Why not try that first instead of moving directly to to censorship?
There is a deep seated flaw in this thinking:
" Are conversations about a certain subject or event frequently regressing into hostility between the participants?... we will be adding it to the list and taking action by closing existing discussions"
We are not in kindergarten. There is no need to punish the whole class for the bad behavior of the few, especially when they have no way to control them. It's the mods who have control and they should be able to use it rather than shifting that responsibility onto the community. If conversations are regressing into hostility, who let that go on? If mods handed out suspensions as soon as hostile behavior broke out and enforced it consistently I'm pretty sure posters would think twice before launching attacks. For instance, ad hominem attacks are frequent on these threads, they are harassment, they often signal the commencement of a shitstorm and I rarely have seen them addressed. If rule #4 doesn't presently give them enough latitude, then make it more explicit.
There is a lot of good information and productive discussion in these threads. I don't see the point in throwing out the baby with the bathwater simply because some of us can't be bothered to be more polite.
Comment has been collapsed.
Hi SG,
We're adding a couple of new guidelines to the site due to recent concerns within the community. This change adds the following to the list of content that is not allowed.
Terrorism. Supporting terrorist groups, terrorist acts, or celebrating attacks by terrorist organizations.
Sensitive subjects or events. Content regarding sensitive subjects (e.g. politics, religion, sexuality) or sensitive events with significant social, cultural, or political impact (e.g. public health emergencies, terrorism and related activities, conflict, or mass acts of violence) that we believe are facilitating a hostile and divisive environment throughout our community. At the moment we will be closing discussions pertaining to...Israel-Hamas warRussia-Ukraine warRegarding the first point, if we interpret your content as supporting a recognized terrorist organization then it will be removed or the discussion will be closed.
As for sensitive subjects or events, we'll look at those on a case-by-case basis to see how they're currently being handled by users in the community. Are conversations about a certain subject or event frequently regressing into hostility between the participants? Is the content the source of an unusual amount of conflict throughout the site? If we identify a sensitive subject or event that is causing such a problem, we will first try to use our existing guidelines to keep the conversation civil. In exceptional cases where this proves to be ineffective or infeasible, we will consider adding the subject to the list above. We will moderate items on the list by closing existing discussions along with new ones that attempt to bring the subject back into the spotlight. We may also need to remove comments if a user is trying to shift the focus of an existing discussion to these subjects.
We want SG to continue being a welcoming place to both new and existing users and I think the new additions above are important in helping us maintain that atmosphere.
Edit: The sensitive subjects or events guideline mentioned above has been revised based on community feedback. Please read more about the changes.
Comment has been collapsed.