these new rules are very welcome to me as i come here for a mostly friendly place to talk about nice thing such as games or orther media and not about world politics - so thank you CG
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While I also want that content moderated in some sort of form, at this point I would've preferred that you would've instead created a section that's separate from discussions for "WAY WAY Off Topic". So when we press discussions those don't even show up, yet people who like to discuss these things can still engage in that conversation by going specifically to that area. That and with a few rules against any links they post to gore or things like that imo would've maybe also been a decent solution and kept the users who want to discuss these topics somewhat happy.
But this isn't completely wrong and my solution wasn't particularly the best probably either. In a sense having a section here that's hidden away for those discussions kinda points out that instead they could discuss it in more appropriate places like news outlets or social platforms designated for this conversation where said content is posted anyways. I also find myself sometimes joining those threads in the discussion although I myself would rather talk about other things.
Overall it's a win. GJ.
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I appreciate this a lot, there are so many places on the Internet you could go to where these topics are much more relevant so there's no need for it to be here, especially when it's almost always so toxic and contributes nothing to anyone besides getting people angry.
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SG is not a place. It's a community. Or at least it was. People make a community.
It's not about need. If someone posts a thread saying they are depressed, are we, the people who have chatted with them for years about games and life and other things, supposed to tell them "there are other places to discuss this, go away"? just because there are actually other places to discuss depression.
No. We support them. We encourage them to share more. We offer to play together.
That's what a community does.
Sure there are places where the Ukraine war could be discussed. But there are members of this community who live in Ukraine and started seeing bombs fall on their buildings, losing touch with their families because they had been displaced by the conflict, people we know, who have been living in fear for over a year.
Should they go on reddit and get into a shouting match with strangers instead of sharing their fears and their hopes in a thread right here with people they have known for years?
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Shouting match with strangers is exactly what that Ukraine thread became.
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It also was a historical record of events, and I'd argue that since it was updated regularly, it might have been the most complete record, easily accessed on the interwebs.
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But it wasn't the avowed goal of the thread, unlike the other one mentioned in the OP.
That makes all the difference. There will always be toxic a--holes raining on others parades or serious threads. And these should be dealt with, yes.
However banning some threads instead of banning the individuals who are making the thread toxic, is a failure of moderation and sends the wrong signal to the community.
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of course they should/will be allowed as they only are good in spirit and are there to help people enjoy -not everyone will like everything of course but mostly they are good in nature
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In my opinion the Ukraine thread was also in good spirit. I was there to support the Ukrainian users of SG during their hard times. When people came to provoke. it went wrong and wasn't moderated. I won't deny that.
But sex, gender and religion in threads would easily fly out of control too if not moderated as they are VERY sensitive to certain people.
There is still a lot of hate in the world and certain people love to show it.
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place for some people to rejoice
And wasn't Ukraine thread a same place for Ukrainians? I don't have anything for closing the threads as long as its universal. But don't start these double standards. If LGBT or Ramadan was an issue to anyone, they stayed away from the topics. Same as most people did with Ukraine thread. Sensitive topics are sensitive topics whether they touch upon politics, religions, ideologies. And frankly I believe these two topics you mentioned have even more polarity and opinion differences then politics.
It just got quite out of control now with both of these wars. Frankly the only reason we got to a point it needs to be banned.
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People generally don't celebrate Eid here with spamming clown emojis, calling others just based on their nationality orcs, subhumans and do very personal attacks. I stopped checking the Ukranian topic for most of the time but it was more of hating on/mocking the russian army AND russian people, than actual celebration, or news.
Edit: I don't protect the Putin apologists, but the uninvolved people and users who got caught in a storm of generalized hate.
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I agree with you about this. I don't mind propaganda from both sides on the forums, but dehumanizing races is a huge red line to me. That's some nazi kind of thing, and it doesn't belong anywhere.
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I never said closing the Ukraine thread was the right thing to do so you're seeing double standards where there aren't any. And no people who had "issues" with those threads didn't stay away from them as you can clearly see in the old ones, just like Putin fans didn't stay away from the Ulraine thread.
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Ramadan itself can't do harm. Bananas neither.
Unless someone enforces you to get in contact with this topic (e.g. celebrating it in front of your house, bringing it up in general conversations with you over and over again), it shouldn't have any effect on you.
If your attitude towards it was based on a traumatic experience, then it should be treated. Because noone can save you from encountering it at times.
If you look into such a topic, although you can't stand it, then that's a mental disorder and should be treated as well, since you'd do harm to yourself.
And I don't write this to insult you, mental health issues are nothing to make fun of.
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First off, I don't write to you. This is a public thread. If you hadn't want me to reply, you shouldn't have written the first sentence, because you're using sarcasm to accuse me of insulting you although I had stated the contrary before. And I won't leave this unrectified.
I get that you felt attacked by my previous posting, despite it's just me trying to understand why someone would write something like you had done before. The "If"s and the subjunctive should make clear that I wasn't implying.
Instead I listed possible scenarios to provoke you a bit, because you hadn't explained your attitude (neither here nor in other threads). If I missed it, feel free to link it. If you don't want to read opposing views, you might not want to post provoking stuff in the first place or even more avoid reading discussions at all.
Background story which explains why I wouldn't make fun of mental health issues (careful, not for sensitive minds):
When I was 6, my mother strangled my 4 year old brother in his bed almost to death. I was awake and saw it. She was institutionalised, my brother is somewhat mentally retarded and has several tics since then, my father needed help from psychotherapists afterwards and I was sent to a child psychologist once a week (although back then I was told it was some sort of additional linguistic school). Ongoing I was thinking it was just a nightmare, until my step mom and step sister told me the truth about it when I was like 14. My dad just couldn't talk about it.
My mother was cured at some point, but she never actually tried to get back in contact and founded a new family, so I can't judge it. My brother has been in a mental hospital for quite some time now on his own request.
That's discussing and exchanging views.
On the other side this:
Ramadan is an insult to begin with.
might be seen as hatespeech. And I'm not even Muslim.
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It's not really about the threads being about "sensitive subjects", it's about how people in them behaved. I don't get how people don't understand that and completely miss the point of the updated guidelines. How many of the ones complaining about the discussions being closed actually visited the Ukro vs Russia discussion? If any did, they would see that it wasn't about spreading awareness about the war anymore, but spreading hate towards anyone from Russia with their constant "orc this, orc that" comments. It's just pointless hate directed at anyone from Russia, just because of their nationality. People were acting xenophobic, and yet a discussion like that should be allowed to continue? I don't get the logic there.
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The problem wasn't the thread itself, it was that those people were monopolizing it and basically turning it into their echo chamber. A few of the people who posted in the thread (the OP among them) were perfectly able to discuss the conflict without resorting to insults and racism. A wave of bans instead of those jerryrigged new rules would have enabled the thread to stay open, perhaps not always on top of every page but still relevant now and then when someone would want to add something meaningful to it.
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I agree that the users who just spread hate should be banned. Simple as that. But that thread and those new ones were indeed fostering a very hateful atmosphere. Also, seeing just the reaction to this simple rule change and how people freaked out for no reason, I bet that there would also be issues with people getting banned for being xenophobic in those threads because of censorship and all that. Also, do note that the moderators have to review all of the images and videos of people being brutally killed that are shared in those posts, as noted by cg. I wonder how many of the moderators here, on a website for giving away games and about gaming, signed up to look at disgusting stuff like that.
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Meh. While I do feel that outright banning things and topics that are important to certain people purely on the grounds of convenience is bad, I am willing acknowledge that banning such topics on the grounds of practicality is understandable. I believe it'd be better if we could but I'm not stupid enough to discredit the time, effort, and honestly mental fortitude needed to actually mod such topics, especially after the last debacle.
I send my sympathies and well wishes to the poor mod/s that had the unfortunate task of sifting through all the NSFL stuff that needed to be checked that one time.
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Thank you!
I enjoy free speech, but it feels awfully forced and impolite to focus the conversations about these wars into this site, when it is being talked about just about everywhere else.
They were called "awareness" threads, but i just found them to be annoyingly repeating all the same info you can find on most any other site that covers the news.
I've been ringing every time i see the posts get bumped back to the top, and it is nice to see the mods made a choice about the content of this environment.
Again, THANK YOU! and Blessings o/
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Terrorism. Supporting terrorist groups,
This is treated as a "terrorist group from which country"?
You may want to mention this when blocking the perspective of
For example, if you are designated as a "terrorist group" by "North Korea," you will be closed, so it is important to keep this in mind.
Sensitive subjects or events.
Rather, it seems to me that this is the only way to go.
It is an error in the translation device. The implication is that it is inevitable to some extent.
And even then, "for what reason" do we close it? and"please avoid similar topics for at least one month".
Is there any such guidance from the Mods? I think it should be allowed.
###Generally, there are people who add branches and fish tails to "matters immediately after an incident or disturbance that has not been determined to be true", which was also the case in the beginning of the Russian and Ukrainian disturbances. And I feel that we have the same problem in this Israeli-Palestinian affair.
Maybe it's necessary in terms of giving the cool down time and giving the community an environment where they can have a smooth and peaceful conversation.
In any case, I think it is generally the right thing to do in the operation of SteamGifts.
(One hour later.)Correction of mistranslations in strikethrough sections.
It is an error in the translation device. The implication is that it is inevitable to some extent.
Is there any such guidance from the Mods? I think it should be allowed.*
For some reason, I was wrong for two lines.XD
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I'm also curious about the point Kappa brings up - what will and won't be considered a terrorist organization?
I heard that the list maintained by UNOCT is quite different from the many lists maintained by USA departments (DOS, FBI, OJP) and even from NATO.
When in doubt I prefer to use UNOCT definitions because they are broadly accepted by all member countries. But that also means groups widely considered terrorists by the media would be absent.
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To spill a little, the "BBC" does not use the word "terrorist".
BBC defends policy not to call Hamas 'terrorists' after criticism - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67076341
John Simpson on X: "British politicians know perfectly well why the BBC avoids the word ‘terrorist’, and over the years plenty of them have privately agreed with it. Calling someone a terrorist means you’re taking sides and ceasing to treat the situation with due impartiality. The BBC’s job is to…" / X
https://twitter.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/1711857564227412069
I think Earth Humas.. tend to "label" things and make a binary argument that that one is an "enemy" and that one is a "friend".
The lack of options for neutral treatment or ignoring them is also frightening.
However, there is a certain understanding of the desire to operate according to "some guidelines" or "rules.
If the SteamGifts servers are located in the US or Canada, then there is a need to post that list if that country only disallows countries that have been designated as terrorists.
Well, the BBC story is just for reference. It would be better management to know why it exists than not to know.
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Like many others I disagree with point 2. It is too subjective and seems to have the intention of killing any possible discussion where there is the slightest chance people might disagree with each other.
With the examples given you've already shot your credibility IMO:
How is a health crisis a sensitive topic? So a new Covid outbreak, for example, is a no go?
We can't share medical facts on preventative measures, because some people are "sensitive" to scientific facts?
Sexuality: so no more threads for Pride Month celebration?
Will we ban topics in the deals section for Humble Bundles that support these, and other causes, too?
All this, while users insulting others seemingly remain unpunished.
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Yeah, god forbid we hurt, say, anti-vaxxers' or homophobes' feelings.
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We can't share medical facts on preventative measures, because some people are "sensitive" to scientific facts?
Well said. And the posting history of the people celebrating the news in the thread kinda tells you all you need to know about it.
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Question: does a bundle thread that supports a certain event (eg: pride month, disaster relief, "supporting x country in a war" like those palestine bundle) also falls in the second category?
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Don't think they will be affected by this, as I didn't notice any flame wars in those discussions.
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I know but i believe it still falls under "facilitating a hostile and divisive environment throughout our community" clause since you will help people to be aware of the bundle and do the purchase to support them so i'm kinda confused about it...
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I would claim what happens in Ukraine is also a disaster. But of course you mean natural disasters.
But on that note I also claim "sexuality" is a natural event as a person is born that way. So in my view it shouldn't cause any issues. Some people simply decide to make a problem of it.
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"But on that note I also claim "sexuality" is a natural event as a person is born that way."
I can understand your perspective, however there are also situations where it would not be the case.
Explaining would be most likely in violation of point 2 and could trigger a flame war so I will not elaborate.
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Oh yeh, Don't get me wrong. I completely understand what you mean.
I don't judge anybody on sex or religion. It's not my business. Others think very different. (I mean in general, not you)
My point was more like... Where and what is the actual line? (actually the point you just made below here :P)
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Wouldnt disaster relief fall under sensitive issue? I thought news related to death can be sensitive to some people.
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It depends how far you will go with sensitive, If there is a big natural disaster. Its indirectly implied that many people are hurt/ dead.
If we would draw the line so far then many games should be banned as well since they contain said forbidden topics...
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It's not really "sensitivity" of the topic that caused the issue. It's how people in those threads engaged with one another when the topic was discussed. Sometimes even outside of it. So, this was done to put out those stupid fires, as online, a vast majority of people can't take a different view on something and will instead start a flame war and call others all kinds of slurs just because they hold a different view/oppinion to their own. There's only one truth online — my own. If you don't agree with it, then you're automatically some nasty slur.
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I am not against it and understand it. But this timing doesn't look good at all.
The thread was fine for 1 and a half year. A terror sympathist shows up to provoke and then demanding the thread to be closed. Then he creates a hatred thread. Both get closed.
You gave him exactly what he asked for. It kinda feels like the "terrorist attack" on SG worked.
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As easy as that, the shitshow ends! Congratulations everyone!
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Who do you mean by "you people"?
I don't use it.
But you don't have to use it to hear about praising freedom of speech, the personally banning people who question him, make joke of him or such.
Btw as someone who doesn't use 4chan, why are you that invested in it?
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To be real, the problem with gagging a community is pre-emptively removing the option of discussing certain topics in any way, and communicates distrust. Letting the community talk, and silencing the noise and directions that are unfavoured can achieve the same order, while allowing healthy discussions to exist. Totalitarian or zero control both can lead to an unpleasant time in a cesspool.
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I have no problem with the changes but can't we just have a hide post eye button and a hidden category? So if any future post that people don't like to see is posted, people can just hide it easily. That way no further changes in the guidelines is needed in the future.
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So, your response to a Hamas support thread is forbidding Pride month thread and closing Ukraine thread that's been an immense support for many of us. Well done. Castrating the forum is the way to go. I guess, I'll remain here for group GAs, but what's made this community unique is being reduced to cinders.
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Thank you, I hope you'll have a pretty decent weekend yourself :)
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as igel said, time to think about spending time and money for this site. curious that i wasn't thinking about it, till admin announcement.
a tired, hella tired admin. maybe is time to relieve Mods work and give us a new shiny admin. but he's doing the opposite, so no big hopes.
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I doubt CG will step down as admin anytime soon, but maybe someday someone will create a real competitor to Steamgifts (maybe even a site that supported gifting games for more platforms then just Steam).
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Don't think you read it carefully. They aren't forbidding anything. "Content regarding sensitive subjects/events that we believe are facilitating a hostile and divisive environment throughout our community". The second point simply says that discussions where people only argue with one another, spewing hate/slurs towards one another, and all because the other person has a different opinion/view on the posts subject will probably be closed as they don't contribute anything of value to the website. Don't think this is bad.
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But I don't think a couple of trolls will be enough to close a thread. The whole Ukro vs Russ thread would easily leak out to other threads, and any talk about it would immediately get heated. I mean, we had a post that asked for all Russian users on SG to be banned from the platform just because they are Russian. Things like that, which only incentivize hate towards others, will probably be closed. We will see if they automatically close all "sensitive" topic discussions, but I doubt that will be the case.
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Sad sad day. Letting a troll neuter our community.
SG is more than a site to come and grab free games. At least it was.
If they go through with this, I guess I'll just do what most of the people who were making GAs when I got here 6 years ago probably do now and just sell my leftover keys or something.
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Sensitive subjects or events. Content regarding sensitive subjects (e.g. politics, religion, sexuality)
For me that last point makes to me makes SG a less welcoming place. Because this wording puts the Pride thread at risk, which makes this a very unwelcome change to the rules. I'll have to think about spending time (and some money) here any longer.
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I agree. A community that doesn't feel free to communicate about events that surrounds us, things we celebrate and places we enjoy is not a community.
Quite unsurprisingly there is a large number of people in the thread throwing their fist in the air as if they won something that I have put on my ignore list in the past for being disruptive, trolling, intolerant people who were injecting their politics into unrelated topics... hm... I wonder why they are so happy
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Understandable. Ideally this site should be about entertainment and things that everyone can enjoy.
There has been a lot of threads here about opposing political / religious / ideological groups or the wins/losses/conflicts/violence between them. While as these subjects are important, such discussions can easily devolve into conflict between users, which I imagine causes quite a few problems for the volunteer support staff and moderators.
That said, I don't know that there is any good place on the web these days to discuss such contentious topics. Any forum where controversial opinions can get you downvoted or banned without breaking any rules (Reddit, Facebook, etc.), or sites with a vested interest in supporting a cause (most news sites), will inevitably factor one side wide suppressing the other, this is one of the things that makes SG a great place for actual discussion.
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Because there was no one exposing israel last year
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*Because there was nobody glorifying domestic terrorism last year.
Fixed it for you.
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Is this a matter from the early days of that Discussion?
Some people were unable to use major services due to "Internet censorship" by the Russian government, and were forced to gather information in places like this.
That was one aspect of it.
Currently, the Russian government's censorship has been considerably undermined by various failures and we can use VPNs and TOR to get various information from around the world.
I don't think that putting a stop to the Ukraine discussion is such a bad thing in itself, as I think it's time for the people who were gathered around that discussion to explore different things.
However, it is a good source of fact-checking and information gathering information related to Ukraine and Russia, so those who really need it will probably bookmark the site and use it.
I don't think it's a problem because the content is not deleted.Close
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Hi SG,
We're adding a couple of new guidelines to the site due to recent concerns within the community. This change adds the following to the list of content that is not allowed.
Terrorism. Supporting terrorist groups, terrorist acts, or celebrating attacks by terrorist organizations.
Sensitive subjects or events. Content regarding sensitive subjects (e.g. politics, religion, sexuality) or sensitive events with significant social, cultural, or political impact (e.g. public health emergencies, terrorism and related activities, conflict, or mass acts of violence) that we believe are facilitating a hostile and divisive environment throughout our community. At the moment we will be closing discussions pertaining to...Israel-Hamas warRussia-Ukraine warRegarding the first point, if we interpret your content as supporting a recognized terrorist organization then it will be removed or the discussion will be closed.
As for sensitive subjects or events, we'll look at those on a case-by-case basis to see how they're currently being handled by users in the community. Are conversations about a certain subject or event frequently regressing into hostility between the participants? Is the content the source of an unusual amount of conflict throughout the site? If we identify a sensitive subject or event that is causing such a problem, we will first try to use our existing guidelines to keep the conversation civil. In exceptional cases where this proves to be ineffective or infeasible, we will consider adding the subject to the list above. We will moderate items on the list by closing existing discussions along with new ones that attempt to bring the subject back into the spotlight. We may also need to remove comments if a user is trying to shift the focus of an existing discussion to these subjects.
We want SG to continue being a welcoming place to both new and existing users and I think the new additions above are important in helping us maintain that atmosphere.
Edit: The sensitive subjects or events guideline mentioned above has been revised based on community feedback. Please read more about the changes.
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