Do we really need multiple complaint threads about Diablo 3?
Please don't say "But the other one was about its online-play limitation.".
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All I'm saying is that we can do with one Blizzard-bashing-thread, and not make one for each of the three unsavory decisions they made.
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Who said stopping anyone from saying anything? Wish you had read carefully before replying :)
This thread will have people saying exactly the same stuff with the other one, we might just have one thread about this.
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I read what you wrote perfectly fine. It isn't the "exact" same topic, and by saying basically he should not make a thread, you are saying that he shouldn't be saying what he is, and therefore, trying to stop him from saying it.
If you don't care about the topic, or are pissed about hearing so much about it, skip the thread, you don't need to tell other people they shouldn't make their own discussions and have others partake in them if they feel inclined to do so.
:D
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"Does anything more really need saying?"
Yes: Activision.
Otherwise, no. This website is dedicated to Steam-related "gifts." While I'm sure we all enjoy PC games and the like, the Diablo 3, Battlefield 3, and other bonanzas can stay relegated to other forums.
Edit: For information regarding freebies, trials, betas, and trades, I would like to point everyone over to the forums on this site.
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It's not Activison doing this mate, it's Blizzard. If you believe what Blizzard says, that they are seperate from activision and do their own thing, then that means this is all their idea, just like the Real-ID fiasco of (planning) to put the real life names of users on their forums. If that is not true and Activision actually has a hand in it, then Blizzard is just flat out dead and it's Activision-Blizzard which makes them the same entity.
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I believe, albeit loosely, that Blizzard retains most of their individuality, but I can't help but think that Activision/Kotick has their hands in the mix. Either way, Real-ID was an interesting idea (like a Blizzard Facebook or some such gibberish), but we know where that went.
I can't make a real judgement on their D3 auction house plans until I can see it action, so I'll reserve most negative commentary until that point.
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It's really convenient to always blame Activison for every bad move, done by Blizzard. That way you can still buy their games, because you can say to yourself, that "Blizzard are still the good guys, they didn't want to do this, but they had to, because of evil, evil Activision".
Yeah, sure, don't you think it's time to wake up? Blizzard made a bunch of insanely good games and besides WoW, I've played all of them and liked every single one, but this doesn't change the fact, that they are turning into the same evil corporation like EA, Activison or Ubisoft.
I really hope that those 3 decisions they made aren't final, because if they are, I might actually skip this one.
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That guy really doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. He is just ranting and raging over nothing just to get people fired up. Honestly why wouldn't they try to make money off it. Way better than letting it go to some third party hacker.
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Legitimizing gold selling is no different than our Government legitimizing pot. Why? They're taking something that was viewed as "illegal" and "bad" for the game as a whole, and making it legal because people are going to "do it anyway".
It's the same exact situation. He does know what he's talking about, and this is only going to make the gaming industry worse for consumers as time goes on. As it is companies are trying to drain their consumers dry as is, which is made worse by the fact that wages can't keep up with the cost of living + entertainment budgets when our society focuses so heavily on entertainment.
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It's similar but still apples and oranges. Violating the TOS in terms of goldselling virtual items for monetary currency will not get you sent to prison. It will just void your contract with the company so they can ban/close your account.
Either way, I'm all for allowing it.
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Most of the people who I know who loved Diablo 1 and 2 found the idea of there being a Cash based Auction House rather cool. Why wouldn't it be cool?
Because then people that pay the most money become the best players? Well, sure, if this were WoW where there's One set of gear that is the best gear to get and everyone just bought that set of gear, except this is Diablo where any shit could turn out to be epic loots.
Because this just shows that Blizzard are greedy? Well, aside from the fact that they are greedy and so long as people keep paying them they have every right to be greedy... This doesn't show that all. Blizzard takes a Minor cut of all auction house purchases, presumably to help pay for the regulation of the auction house, its upkeep, and general maintenance of it. If Blizzard takes more than average of 5-10% of all auction costs, then I could see some claims of greediness, but I doubt they'll take more than 5% even.
Because this is a game and I shouldn't have to pay for good gear? Well, there's no requirement that you have to pay, and I can tell you right now that Diablo 3 will be balanced to the point where everyone can play it and get perfectly fine gear and beat everything (but other players) without ever purchasing good gear. Now, those with skill would be able to beat all the players too even against those who have purchased the best gear they could find.
But I want to use the auction house and I don't want to/can't spend real cash! Well, so? There's a gold based auction house, use that, and guess what, even if for some reason the item you want does take real cash, you can always sell gold and other items on the cash based AH and make cash.
I don't want to lose all my awesome stuff that I paid money for though! Well, ya can't really. Because you can't use the Cash based AH on Hardcore characters to keep idiots from doing this.
What about when they delete my char for inactivity? They won't be doing that, and you shouldn't have to worry about the servers going down for a LONG time.
"Insert Other Question Here"? Go ahead, make my day.
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My original message on the Escapist upon reading the article;
I think this is a great idea. It's been going on in MMO's for years, way back in Ultima Online you were spoiled for choice if you wanted to browse websites selling in game items for real money. All this is doing is legalising the process and therefore benefiting a wider audience. Plus it isn't mandatory like other micro-transaction operating games, the items you can find in the game world will appear in the cash auction house and nothing more - yet, even when Blizzard decide to make their millions from it, as long as they stick to the 'vanity items' and not 'power items' it's all good. Of course I can see it being horribly buggy and going tits up in the first few months but that should smooth out.
At the same time, I found this;
If you don't lol...
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According to what I read users can list what they like, Blizzard will not initially be using the cash auction house to sell to users. And if they do decide to use the cash auction house it will be vanity items, not power items.
Obviously things can change depending on it's popularity and I wouldn't rule it out that Blizzard may add power items to the cash auction house. But that they are saying no to that idea now means it will be a long way off if they change their mind. They'll be making a killing off the listing fee for cash auctions anyway.
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Okay, I might as well throw my few cents in.
No Mods: This for me effectively dispels any illusion that any purchase of Diablo 3 would be to, well, buy it. Players will have absolutely no legal control over what they payed for. Also, isn't it just common sense that mod capability is what determines long-run popularity for most games? I mean, where would the likes of the Tower Defense or DOTA genres be if it weren't for people modding Blizzard's titles?
Online Only: What about LAN parties? Oh right, if the game was LAN capable every player wouldn't have to buy their own copy, derp. Also, yes, my machine is always online, but that's not the point. The point is that Blizzard is showing a stunning disdain for consumer rights or service. Yes, it makes sense to protect the online environment from cheaters, but for fuck's sake, why not allow a SP/MP separation? Oh that's right, because then Blizzard wouldn't have complete and total control over the game and its customer base.
Auction House: I agree with TotalBiscuit completely. The system basically allows players to buy and sell power. The system is a ripoff with it's thrice-over charging scheme. It's a system akin to legalizing drugs: Just because people do it anyway doesn't mean it should be supported, or that Blizzard should try to get in on that action. I'm sorry, but folks, this is just a capstone in what is obviously a campaign to rip off users as much as possible, with very little in return. Certainly not enough to justify the outrages committed or planned by Blizzard or Activision.
I'm now imploring people: Don't buy Diablo 3. Why do I care? Simple, because if this game sells well, it'll set precedents. I'm already sick that we players are being burdened with incomplete, overpriced games, terrible DRM, and a general shrinking of freedom and choice when it comes to how we can enjoy our hobby.
Now I'll just state that I'm basing my opinion primarily on the no mods/online only arguments. I think the Auction House is a bad idea, but it's by far the least of my gripes.
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You argue a good case for your POV and I actually agree with some of the points you raise, but I object to "I'm now imploring people: Don't buy Diablo 3" - I don't like it when people tell me not to buy a game because they disagree with something. Over the years we've had MMO-ophobes, DLC-ophobes, Day 1 DLC-ophobes, Micro-transaction-ophobes and if this becomes the next "thing"... well, it could be worse. In Diablo 2 - and as I mentioned with other games such as World of Warcraft, Ultima Online etc - there were item sellers and gold sellers everywhere you turned, all this is doing is giving them a legal place to do it.
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Oddly enough, I've already encountered that kind of comment and I'll say my response again: I'm not ordering you to do or not do something. I am, well, imploring. And I thought I made my case clear that I was doing said imploring because your purchase may (read: most likely will) affect me in the future. I think I'm in my rights then to try to dissuade people from buying it.
"It could be worse."
It's been -getting worse- for some time now, and what I'm saying is that it -will- get worse if consumers allow it to. My concern I must reiterate isn't so much with the Auction House. DLCs, MMOs, microtransaction, and virtual economy bollocks can all be done well, if it's well, done well. My point isn't about that though, it's about the restrictions placed upon and maltreatment of consumers is what irks me, and I must bring it up because, to be frank, most people aren't aware that they deserve more than they're being offered.
Consumers should not be burdened with intrusive DRM and control schemes. Consumers should not be forced to be online to enjoy a single player experience. Consumers should have the right to own the data stored on the disk they legally purchased, with the rights to analysis and modification that implies. And most of all, consumers should not be treated like stupid and/or malevolent parasites, and the company should not take their consumer base for granted.
Blizzard (and it's parent company Activision) is violating -all- of these tenants. Brazenly. Perhaps I should have filed this under the other thread, but now I guess since I've started here, I might as well continue here. I've had issues with Blizzard's recent treatment of consumers in the past but I had decided that the system there was still within my comfort zone. This bullshit with Diablo 3, however, is not. And you must consider if it isn't in yours as well. I'm not going to skirt around and try to be polite this time and say I wasn't ordering people to do something. I'm saying you must consider whether the faults of a product you're considering are acceptable.
Believe me, in this case they aren't.
PS. You don't explain how legalizing a previously prohibited activity is a positive. You've basically just repeated your sentiment even after I've argued against it. As a guy who was a member of his high school debate club, that's just bad debating. :P
But now I want to issue a challenge. To anyone who cares to take it up: Explain and justify why virtual black markets and gold farming was bad, and why it wouldn't be if it was developer sanctioned. As a bonus, state whether this move (as an institutionalizing of a previously prohibited activity) is fundamentally different from legalizing, say, drugs or prostitution, and explain why.
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We share different views and that is perfectly fine, but my view is that if there are a section of gamers who are willing to pay cash for digital goods they can go right ahead and who am I to complain about that?
Legalising something that was previously illegal SHOULD remove some of the questionable methods, tactics and associated actions relating to current selling of that which is to become legalised - or to put it another way, if prostitution is illegal - which it is here in the UK - I get people shagging in cars in the carpark round the back of my house, if it is legal then a lot of these prostitutes could take their trade somewhere more respectable. If a drug was legalised by the government and, hell, even distributed by the government it would reduce the amount of extra shit they put in the drugs to keep costs low. Personally I wouldn't use a prostitute or use drugs - legal or not - but both of these legalisations could (and probably would) have a positive affect on me - no people shagging in my carpark makes me happy directly, no baking powder or whatever they put in drugs would make me happy because I'd not be so damn worried about friends of mine that do take drugs.
As I guy who was not a member of his high school debate club... fuck, I don't even think we had one, I understand that my... 'debate' is probably full of holes, but it wasn't a debate for me, you used that word :p It was just me saying how I view the situation. If I stopped using or having any interaction with anything that pissed me off you can bet your ass I'd not have a mailbox, not use public transport, there would be very limited food produce that I could consume, half the brands of toilet roll would not be welcome in my house, the local council would be whistling for my council tax, I'd not be able to have the internet, I don't believe a single game dev would be able to sell me a game, I'd be single and have no friends, I'd have disowned my family for that matter, I'd last a day in every single job I could apply for, I'd not have much to watch on television, a good few film directors would be out of the picture as well... I'll stop there but I could have gone on like that for days I think :)
Entitled to your opinion of course but implore, literally translated is "to beg someone to do something". That is all I objected to.
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He isn't asking TELLING you not to buy a game, he's requesting it. Imploring isn't demanding, but asking.
Also, the 'drugs' argument works here once again. There are STILL people who hang out in dark alleys and sell "items" and "gold" to people illegally. We haven't given them a legal place to do so because we view it as wrong. This is akin to the Government legalizing it because they don't care what their citizens think, knowing that they'll abide by it regardless because they're able to ignore the downsides and just pay attention to the few benefits.
Granted, as it was brought up earlier, you wont go to jail for buying or selling items or gold, but you WILL pay for it in the long run if you're caught, and even WORSE if you're scammed and/or hacked because of it.
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A Mailbox by TotalBiscuit dedicated entirely to D3's new auction house system sums up the problems with it rather well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrESZJlNvQ
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