Do you like it?
I'm a huge Tolkien nerd, I watched the first episode but never felt like continuing it, so I didn't. I heard a lot of people are liking S2 more than S1. Glad you're having a good time.
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Black elves and dwarves doesn't matter to me at all. And I like both some of the actors and some of the characters. What I haven't enjoyed so far is the actual writing, which is a shame because a lot of the action sequences and individual moments have been really cool in the series.
Interesting side note: There has been a lot of debate as to whether Tolkien was racist or not. He denounced Nazi Germany's racialist views, but that doesn't necessarily imply that he didn't think less of certain people. And a lot of people believe he wrote Orcs to represent Africans. I have no idea what is or isn't true in that regard.
As to canon or not canon, Christopher Tolkien filled in a lot of the unfinished parts of the Silmarillion and the legendarium himself and edited some translations of Chaucer's works, and so I think the implication there is that the Tolkien family isn't really opposed to a bit of creative license or individual interpretations with JRR's work or in general.
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Everything is based on something. There is no "true" creation when it comes to writing so yes I would say the orcs are indeed based on some peoples, if not Africans then possibly Islam. A lot of writers base stuff on religion like Dune. So it could be seen as Orcs being those that broke away from the belief of the true god. I mean to me it does smack heavily of religion. Or possibly they just represent pagans. I mean he's dead and gone and anyone who might possibly know is also dead and gone.
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True. We can only speculate. I believe Christopher Tolkien did share his thoughts on some of this, but I haven't searched around to remind myself of what he had said.
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Uruk was a town in, if i remember correct right now, old mesopotamia. If i remember incorrect then somewhere around.
I don't have energy right now to search for the correct book where i read it a few months ago.
He stole borrowed a lot of names, languages etc. from cultures that existed, mostly from the arabic directions of nowadays syria, iraq, iran, turkey etc. and i assume because the british archeology was very active there and brought a lot of news in tolkiens younger years when he wrote the books. So that stuff was "in" at that time.
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Gilgamesh was allegedly the king of Uruk, so I'd say your memory is good. :)
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If you look at celtic mythology, Sauran is basically Balor of the Formorians and Formorians were basically orcs. Balor had a fiery eye.
The Tuath de Dannan/ Tuath Dé were immortal beings who lived on Earth before the arrival of men. They supposedly lived on the island of Ireland before the celtic peoples and left this realm as the age of men began. The elves did that in LoTR.
I'm a fan of Celtic mythology and I see a lot of parallels with Lord of the Rings, even if Tolkien claimed to hate Celtic mythology. LMAO
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Jah. I can see that.
IRL, I often wonder what ancient peoples were seeing and dealing with that we don't have in the more modern eras. Just basing my thoughts on what is shown via hieroglyphs, petroglyphs, engravings and some still existing statues and obelisks, I assume their world was a crazy and often scary place to live, be it the Middle East, Asia, Europe, North/South America, wherever.
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It is interesting indeed.
And when you break it down, you see the same ideas from different civilizations, sometimes on opposite sides of the world. The names and settings are different, but some of the stories are very, very similar.
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Agreed. I'm someone who definitely finds the idea of prehistory interesting and consider things like Younger Dryas to be a compelling reason why civilizations had to start over. The various civilizations that sprung up to share a lot of common tales even if they named it something different.
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Well they all migrated from one place to everywhere else. Just because written language didn't exist till after they all got settled doesn't mean there was no language or stories/mythology. I can only assume there was some oral traditions these peoples took with them as they migrated all around the globe.
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It's pretty good. I've recently rewatched the 6 live action movies, the cartoon hobbit movies, and both seasons of rings of power. I like them all for different reasons. There has been a growing trend of hate dogpiling and generally not giving new things in a given series a chance. I say watch the whole thing (of anything in general) before you even look at what people are saying about it. Form your own opinion and don't give into whole hive mindset "this thing is for sure good/bad" as per the internet.
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I like Lord of The Rings and thus this show for me is a 2/10 but I think it is a solid 5/10 when you just want to relax and turn your brain off and watch something in the background while you just enjoy your meal after a day of hard work.
My favorite part was in season 1 when Adar was shown as the good guy looking for home for poor orcs that want to live in peace and Galadriel was shown as a female hitler. It was good to support orcs and their poor families and the search of home while being harassed by nasty racist evil elves.
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I think you may be oversimplifying or misinterpreting things. I think the point was to show that things are almost never black and white. People usually have good reasons to do bad things or at least they think they do. There is also a lot of doing "good" for the wrong reasons. I mean a classic example would be all these politicians who volunteer for things like habitat for humanity or something similar to make themselves look good and garner public support but they don't actually give a damn about anything beyond their career. Adar doesn't even exist in the books so it's something purely conjured up for the show.
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"things are almost never black"
Yes. And I find that stupid in Lord of the Rings universe if we look at how orcs were created from elves and humans and how they were breed for more then a milenium to be focused entirely on hatred. Orcs are not people. They are monsters. And they were created in that world to be monsters that will kill everything else and serve the most powerful evil they can find like Morgoth that created them and later Sauron.
I know Adar does not exists in the books. Still he is the best part of the show and was rational when Galadriel was acting like Hitler towards him. I just love the peace loving orcs and their peace loving families that will fight and kill only because Adar says so. I also loved how orcs murdered Sauron without any problems.
I find the writing of this show to be extremly shity and stupid.
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Thankfully people can have different tastes - thus I can enjoy things you don't like and you can enjoy things that I don't like.
What you think is me being sour is just me using my eyes and brain when watching that show.
Honestly it just gets better the more drunk I get and the less I think about what I see on the screen.
Thank you for your wishes, Thankfully there are plenty of things that make me happy :)
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Actually it was you cussing in every sentence and being overly dramatic with your assertions. Honestly it read more like baiting than anything else. Nowhere did I say you can't dislike something I like or anything else. Maybe you should reflect on that and go back and read everything else you wrote. Seems more like you saying I shouldn't like the show than me saying you should. I'm not invested in the show at all. Beyond being a fantasy show I can't say much good about it but it's certainly not as bad as you are making it out to be. I mean I think everyone knows you hate the show, not sure what else there is to say.
A few positives I can think of. It was cool to see Tom Bombadil make an appearance. Interesting to see some of the places and things going on like the rings being made. Just little things like that. It all could have and should have been done a lot better but maybe that massive writers strike had something to do with all that? I'm just going to keep my blinders on and not worry about it. It's a decent waste of time in my book. Certainly not a whole lot else to watch right now. A lot of the time I just watch old episodes of Star Trek.
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"Seems more like you saying I shouldn't like the show than me saying you should."
For me it seems that you asked "Do you like it?" - and while votes shows majority of people don't (49% don't like it and 39% see it as a mid 5/10 potato) - I was the only one that responded by explaining that I in fact don't like it.
I think you took my response to your question a little too personal. This is not an attack on you as a person or me telling you that you should not like something. It is just me explaining why I don't like it and your response is that I should write my own show if I don't like this one. I just shared my opinion that you don't agree with and that is fine. This is not Twitter so we don't have to act like people do on Twitter.
There are many logical holes in that show. I'm sorry but I'm not able to just turn my brain off and watch colorful pictures and be happy with that - I like shows and games to have some internal logic that fits the world presented there - Galadriel jumping from a ship pretending she can swim the whole sea and then in the next scene thanking Sauron for rescuing her with the raft is silly. Just like all those characters traveling many hundreds of kilometers on foot in day or two without any provisions. There is no episode without something just plainly stupid in it.
"Beyond being a fantasy show I can't say much good about it but it's certainly not as bad as you are making it out to be."
Well even if it was with a different name the lack of logic in script and the stupid decisions the characters make in that show all the time just makes it a bad fantasy show for me. Thus without any knowledge of Lord of The Rings I would rate it as 5/10 as I said but after reading the books and watching the movies I can see it as 2/10 - for me this show is as bad as The Lord of the Rings: Gollum game.
"Tom Bombadil make an appearance"
Tom Bombadil making an appearance is nice. But the problem is he was always above everything so he was never really interfering with world events much. But now they made Gandalf be the meteorite men that come many hundreds years too soon to Middle Earth and Tom Bombadil will suddenly be his teacher and master - going with the Luke and Yoda trope.
"Interesting to see some of the places and things going on like the rings being made."
Well the only problem is that now they are made in a different order and they are not sticking to Sauron (Annatar) involvement in some of them and not in others and they don't stick to how he corrupted the rings. They also don't stick how slowly the rings were corrupting the Dwarves and now they make it look like days instead of hundred of years.
"Just little things like that. It all could have and should have been done a lot better but maybe that massive writers strike had something to do with all that?"
I don't think that those strikes made bad writers even worse to a point of them not being able to create any logic in the world they are trying to create there.
The more you know about Lord of the Rings the worse this show looks. Thus my 2/10.
But even without any knowledge about Lord of the Rings it is just a mid 5/10 show to be watched as colorful pictures while you eat a dinner or drink beer or vodka and have nothing better to do.
I don't know what shows you watched so far so I will just post here a list of some of the best shows in my opinion in no particular order. Maybe you will find some interesting ones for you that way:
Those About to Die
Fallout
Reacher
Peacemaker
Game of Thrones
House of the Dragon
La Brea
What If...?
The Legend of Vox Machina
Hanna
Su-ri-nam (Narco-Saints)
Sweet Home
Hellbound
The Silent Sea
All of Us Are Dead
DOTA: Dragon's Blood
Arcane
The Boys
Gen V
Invincible
Disenchantment
Ash vs. Evil Dead
Barbaren
King-deom
The Walking Dead
Black Summer
Snowpiercer
Defiance
Love, Death & Robots
The Man in the High Castle
The Expanse
3%
Happy!
The 100
The Punisher
Knightfall
Pushing Daisies
12 Monkeys
Westworld
Lucifer
Z Nation
Stranger Things
Colony
Vikings
Black Mirror
The Last Ship
Supernatural
Breaking Bad
Falling Skies
Dexter
Spartacus: Blood and Sand
Spartacus: Gods of the Arena
Spartacus: Vengeance
Yakitori
Shadow and Bone
Final Space
Cyberpunk: Edgerunners
Inside Job
Daredevil
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Amazing:
Cyberpunk: Edgerunners
Sweet Home
Really nice at the beginning, but then went to shit:
Daredevil
Dexter
Game of Thrones
Supernatural
Doctor who
Garbage:
The Punisher
I don't watch too many shows honestly. But what i watched doesn't really make me optimistic. Quality of writing went down the drain a lot earlier than writers strike. I mean - if you can be replaced by AI - than maybe you are not so good at your job.
I bet that last season of Game of thrones would be much better if written by AI xD
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Sadly I have to agree with last season of Game of Thrones. And probably last season of Dexter - making him die but not really etc... Supernatural was probably grasping at straws there as they didn't know what mythology to use now but also how to make any new powerful bad guy after the you know who.
Many shows have bad writing and as someone that worked with AI I think it is AI writing and not those people creating their own.
From my experience:
Something looks shity = AI
Something looks shity but has some good moments = AI fixed by people
Something is good = created by people without AI
AI gets more things wrong than it gets right. But putting AI everywhere is how we now sell anything to techbros. You can no longer sell everything just by screaming crypto or NFT so now we scream AI when we sell them toilets and toothbrushes etc.
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Something looks shity = AI
Yeah - that was a joke xD I'm just saying that quality of writing is worse and worse every year. To the point where you can't really tell of it was written by a human or machine that slaps some words together using algorythm.
Something looks shity but has some good moments = AI fixed by people
First thng that comes to my mind is "rings of power" for whatever reason xD That would explain some plot elements that not really fit Tolkien universe but are simply popular nowadays xD
Edit: Same with The Punisher, now I think about it.
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To tell the truth I can see AI not knowing the map of Middle Earth as much as the script writers. Or Ai not knowing the orcs history and how they were created thus making them into a poor people looking for a new home etc.
If you want to see shity AI at work you should check Assassin's Creed Shadows trailer - floating doors, stairs leading to a wall when the entrance to the building is to the side, katana sticking out of scabbard basically cutting the scabbard in half, AI mistaking the family crests and putting 2 different families crests on the same person etc.
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Wait, what? Are you actually reading what I am writing? Are you even reading what you are writing? I haven't attacked your position at all, I haven't even said you are wrong in any way. I'm confused as to where you think I am taking this personal. Sorry. I even said the show is average at best but average works for me. I'm not really sure what other people think has to do with your opinion or mine but I can see the pill, I mean I did create it. Also that's not gandalf.
I'm honestly done talking about it. As I said you made it obvious that you don't like it so I'm not sure what else needs to be said.
As for those shows, I have at least checked out most of them and honestly some are worse than rop. You take the stance of judging it by it's source material, which is fine. I'm just judging it as if the source material didn't exist, which is also fine. Instead of trying to convince me I am crazy or misguided why not just accept I have a different view and move on? I mean didn't you even say something to that effect? Cheers.
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Well - I think he could. I read Twilight fanfics written by thirsty teenage fangirls of taylor lautner and they were able to create better story.
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I'm enjoying it :) Especially if I don't think of it as prequel to LOTR because then I don't worry about plot holes or what's canon. If I think of it as just a fantasy tv show, it's fun! The pacing is a little strange but I like the actors and the scenery and I'm interested in seeing where they take the story. Also people upset about POC in a fantasy series are weird. Like they don't have a problem with elves, dwarfs, trolls, orcs, wizards but they draw the line at POC??
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This is me. I enjoy it for what it is.
The people online claiming to be Tolkien scholars (lol) and claiming to be the experts on Tolkien's mind and intentions need to get a friggen life. As a Tolkien fan myself, I find these people insufferable.
And the TV shows and movies take nothing away from the original writing. They are still there to be enjoyed. And a new generation of fans might be introduced to Tolkien's original works this way.
Sometimes, I watch a movie or TV show that is adapted from a book. I will go and read the book afterwards just to see how much was changed. That's a source of fun for me, nothing more.
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Agreed, especially with your second point! It's fine to enjoy it as separate things, because they are. More often than not, movies or tv show adaptations never live up to the books but that doesn't mean it's bad. In this case, I think a lot of people just seem to have Tolkien up on a pedestal and nothing can live up to their standards. But what can you do? At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own opinions :P
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Oh, it's definitely a pedestal. As far as fantasy goes, Tolkien introduced new ideas, much of which were taken from ancient Irish mythology. I love Celtic mythology, so I see the parallels in Tolkien's work. I mentioned similar in another comment:
Sauron = Balor of the fiery eye (Balor of the Formorians)
Orcs = The Formorians
Elves = Tuath Dé / Tuath Dé Dannan
The Tuath Dé were an immortal race who eventually left the mortal realms as they figured it was now the age of men. Haha! There are conflicting stories there too, most likely because some of the stories that tie it all together have been lost. That's why someone like Tolkien coming along adding their ideas and threading it all together in a new way is so fun.
But, I feel like there are so many more Epic fantasy stories that have been written since that are better in a lot of ways. It's just that Tolkien was the first to introduce some ideas, like the elves.
Having said all that, I love Tolkien. I just feel that some fans take the whole thing way too seriously, like it's a real world.
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Im a HUGE Tolkien fan. Even before the movies came out (getting old, but i read tolkien as a kid)- and i dont get the amount of hate.
For starter NOTHING ever will adapt Tolkien 100%. Even the Lotr trilogy wich did so freaking well was likely a lucky fluke, so much so i doubted the Hobbit films would be as good and i was correct. Even less so something that isnt adapting any particular book
Without any fanboyism glasses the series is just very average. Without pre-loaded hate because 'not like Tolkien'(come on, it never wouldve been) it can be entertaining... but very mildly so (and questionable in the logistics, so expensive to end up so average).
To me it feels like fanfic... and im alright with fanfic.
Nowadays the only hurt some adaptation could cause me would be disapointment- but i had 0 expectations for amazons RoP so no disapointments. I already fill some boring days with average shows- one reminding me of Tolkien even if in no special fashion is more then i wouldve hoped
I cant understand anymore the hate people get over bad adaptations- wich is bizarre because i was a hater like that, a specially annoying one btw. During my teens NOTHING ever, no matter what satisfied me. Even the Peter Jacksons movies wich warmed my heart managed to get my blood boiling- because they cut Tom Bombadill, because they made Legolas freaking surf on a shield... jesus how much my blood boiled on the cinema lol
But nowadays i cant understand myself back then. Nothing ever measures to the originals anyway- and adaptations dont 'ruin' the originals either.
I like the film Hook for what it is- not as an adaptation of Peter Pan. It reimagines and recontextualize things as a sort of sequel with am amnesic adult Peter... sure its easier when some transformative adaptation ends up being good in some sense and RoP isnt getting any awards but still, the gap is too big between what it gets vs what it would realistically get if it werent an adaptation.
Btw i feel about the same with many adaptations. Ive read all witcher books, played all witcher games and enjoyed the series (heck i even watched a bootleg of the polish 90s Witcher series, with terrible vfx lol). NONE of the adaptations follow the books proper. I enjoyed each on their merits, but again the games feel more like a better adaptation and the series more like fanfic with reimaginings. I do nitpick the scrottum looking armor tough lol
But thats it, nitpicks. Things i dislike or hate dont equal hating everything. Thats the difference younger me couldnt make- i still hate Legolas surfing on a shield, thats not Lotr, Tolkien would never write anything like that, legolas wouldnt surf on a shield if he could- i mean, book Legolas wouldnt... but thats it, i hate that 1 scene (i can at least laught at it nowadays) and at least film Legolas definetly would surf on a shield like he did. Gandalf and Saruman wouldnt fight like force wielding jedi but hey, force wielding wizard duel was kinda cool in its way. List goes on
Writing could be better, some of the costumes... but i like seeing black elves (and theres room to interpret elves could be darker, according to Tolkien) for a change. Harfoots pre-hobbit may be at a fault on the timeline but i never expected to see pre-shire hobbit precursors and that is kinda fun even if the age isnt the best.
Fanfics can be fun in their way too- and they DONT ruin the originals, ever.
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Tom made it into the Rings of Power. I quite like him.
Speaking of Hook, I liked Pan. Nothing like a bunch of pirates singing Smells like Teen Spirit.
I certainly don't think Rings of Power is going to break any records or anything but it's something nice to watch. Halo has been quite nice as well. The Witcher was great but with the recasting I'm a bit worried.
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Tried it. I ended up wanting to kill all characters because they felt stupid
I felt the writing was bad. Like, terribly bad. I saw a fight between the elf and an orc, and I felt it was the most stupid fight I had ever seen, specially compared between the fight of Aragorn and the uruk-hai
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Right now I'm watching 3 Body Problem and I'm way more disappointed
Have you read the books before and thus missing stuff? I was kinda excited for the show, but after first season I'd say the novel is too complex for a show. A buddy of mine enjoyed the show without reading the books, so it might be that. Also it will be interesting to see how they manage cast considering the huge time span the story covers or if they extend the kryo workaround.
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No, I didn't read the books. My disappointment is solely based on all the decisions and events rarely making sense.
I could forgive that in a soap-opera. But in a sci-fi series? That is supposed to be about the very smartest human scientists and even smarter aliens?
No, I'm quite underwhelmed.. :p
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I haven't heard of that one but it looks worth checking out even if it's mediocre. Most things seem mediocre these days. I thought Foundation has been slightly above average. I didn't read the books but even if I had I still don't compare shows to source material. I have been loving Halo and I played all the games up to 4, I might play the rest now that I can.
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I really liked Foundation S1. S2 was a mixed bag, the infighting between stubborn characters became tiresome.
Sci-fi shows in recent years that I'd consider great are just a handful: The Expanse, Severance, Andor, Star Trek Strange New Worlds and For All Mankind.
3 Body Problem is similar to Dark Matter. At least so far.
Some fascinating initial idea, messed up by lazy writing in the pursue of maximum excitement.
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My biggest thing against Foundation stems from my biggest pet peeve. I don't care at all for gender or race swapping, especially for a main role. Another classic example for this is Battlestar Galactica. I really enjoyed the series but they changed Starbuck into a woman and added a lot of weird sexual tension between them and their best friend Apollo and even the main antagonist Baltar. I grew up with the original and I thought the remake was even better but didn't see the reason to change Starbuck into a woman.
Strange New Worlds has been fantastic, true Star Trek that washed the bad taste of Discovery away. Discovery could have been good but it just seems like they made it a PSA for every equality movement out there. I'm all for it but I don't want to watch a show about it. I don't need to see how things play out between a male>female and their female>male love interest. Or the quibbling's between the doctor and his husband. I also did not care for the reinvention of the Klingons. I thought they did good with their explanation of why they look different in TOS and TNG, they didn't need to add more to that and make them look completely different from either of those incarnations.
For all Mankind was great too up till it got weird with the stuff going on between Gordo's son and Ed's wife. I didn't care much for what happened to Gordo and Tracy either. Duct tape, really? Still looking forward to season 5 to see what happens.
Also you know Henry Cavil is doing Warhammer 40,000 right? Wonder how that will play out. I think he did great with the Witcher.
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I enjoyed it like a fan service, more visualisation of a beloved world and its history. The "controversies" don't have influence on me, because that doesn't bother me, but there are some logical issues and there aren't that many plot highlights, so it doesn't make its way to my favourite shows of all time.
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The Hobbit movies had some good moments like the barrel riding but the finale was so underwhelming. I mean the showdown with Azog was good but there wasn't some epic battle like Helm's Deep or Pelennor Fields. I mean other than what's going on with Azog and Bolg the rest is pretty much ignored and over before you know it. Seeing Dain show up on his boar was another nice touch though.
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The Hobbit for me felt more tailored for children. The original trilogy felt more mature, serious and darker. That doesn't mean the book might be better or worst than the LoTR ones, I personally don't know. It just didn't hit for me and I was dying to dive into the world.
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To be fair I'd say the book was the same way, remember it was written as a journal from a halfling. Lots of singing and lollygagging. I would say Lord of the Rings was overly dark because being centered on the one ring. I mean it was the most corrupting force in Middle Earth right? Just my thoughts. But yes, I think Lord of the Rings is better than Hobbit and Rings of Power.
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I do like the TV series for its lore. A TV series is well suited to tell a story about a world than a movie does in a few hours. I don't think it's in the same level of quality, but I'm fairly surprised that I enjoy it. I only watched 3 episodes, so I am not yet that invested. I barely got a bit of action in it, which I was dying to see. My expectations were tempered. In fact, according to others, the TV series is a disaster and fans hate it. I didn't find it as bad as people online talk about it. I am worried that they might cancel the series in a few seasons or so if it doesn't simply explode in popularity.
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It's only meant to show the creation of the rings to my knowledge and they have already done that with season 2. I really doubt they would try to show everything up to where the Hobbit picks up but maybe they will show a few more things like the destruction of Numenor. In fact I'd almost bet they would end it with that, it seems fitting. How many seasons it takes to get to that point I don't know still catching up on season 2.
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the costumes could use some work
https://youtu.be/vquKyNdgH3s
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show is oke.. and i enjoyed watching it, but the first thing i did was drop the tolkien en LOTR expectations.. and watched it like it was just another fantasy..
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yeah although i found that TWD had a decent first 2 season after that point it all became less.
But sadly you see it more and more, GoT had a great start but got destroyed in the end. (house of dragons is decent but not AA and i like the references it now makes to the original story)
Vikings was a great show that is among the better ones that managed to keep the vibe for all seasons..
Viking Valhalla is way way worse... (and holds to many stupid mistakes in the script..)
and if you really want to cry watch 'Those About to Die' that one was horrible if you ask me :)
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I've been enjoying season 2. Even if it isn't word for word what Tolkien wrote I still think it's good high fantasy. I guess there has been some controversy over black dwarves and elves but I think both those characters have played their roles quite well. Would be interesting to see a series on the first age.
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