Reduce dark UI patterns on site

The intent or reducing the CV is not to discourage giving, but rather to discourage CV abuse.

GENERALLY, one pays for the games they give away.

When a user gives a new AAA game, that's usually at a larger cost than an older, bundled item. For that offering, they get the nominal CV for the game.

However, if the same game later goes on a steep discount, someone may be able to acquire 10 copies for the same cost (hypothetically - deals/bundles vary), and they could easy skyrocket their level by giving them away here.

In the past, free games were not allowed at all, but people had keys laying around they wanted to give away, so the site changed to allow this to be done, but providing 0 CV in return.

Nothing in life is really ever fair, but we try to at least make the cost to level return more level so that the second user doesn't get ahead while spending less.

The system isn't perfect, but I personally feel it has always made sense (even from before I was made a support member) to do it this way, and I've never felt I was being encouraged to do something I didn't indent to do.

If this site wants to encourage people to give away games, and some games are from bundles, maybe try grouping all the bundle games together in easily collapsible groups, so they don't spam the list? That would avoid some of the problems of spamming the site without resorting to dark patterns.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean here? Do you mean a separate page or section, depending on if the game was bundled/reduced?

If you think you had to dig deep to find the information about different classes of CV, we have a very different understanding of "digging deep".
The CV system needs a little time to be understood but you can not expect to understand every bit of new information at once.
I would not call that a "dark pattern" but a very valid try to keep the "create giveaways page" clean and not overflowing with information.
Imho one can expect from every user of an app or website to read FAQs/guideliens/... before investing anything and come to an informed decission about using the app/website then.

Edit: After looking at your giveaways, this thread reads for me like "I did not get CV for my no CV giveaways. I did not read the FAQ before and did not care about the asterixes".

The whole idea of this site is that you can raffle games and the more you raffle, the higher level you get.

the idea is to give away games because you want to share. leveling up is a side-effect.
if you treat it as an investment because "the higher level you have, the more you win", you're in for a disappointment.

If you want to devalue games listed in bundles and discourage people from giving away these games (for what reason I'm not entirely sure)

the purpose of the bundled system isn't to discourage people from making giveaways with those games, it's there to prevent users from exploiting them.
bundled games or heavily discounted ones return 15% in cv. games given away for free (like all your giveaways) are worth 0.

it might seem unfair, but it could be worse: people grabbing multiple free keys from promotions to farm cv (some already do it and they don't get cv, imagine if it worked...).

DARK PATTERNS

new dramatic term added to the database 👮‍♀️

I don't see this as an investment, it's a fun game way to get rid of the extra keys I had. The idea that I'm bringing up here is that there is a dark pattern on this site. Making it a fun game is the idea, but making it a game with hidden rules isn't a fun game, it's a game designed for some people to win at the expense of other people, not through playing the game well, but through somewhat underhanded tactics. Anyways... it's all in service of fun and trying to make the site more enjoyable. Yes, I'm a new user, does this site discourage new users?

It's a signature of a dark pattern when the UI encourages a non-experienced user to do something that they did not intend. That is not a good thing, it's a bad thing, at least from what I've always understood.

The problem seems to be that the site encourages people to giveaway items that give them no credit towards the mysterious "contributor level". This is a DARK PATTERN user interface design. ( https://darkpatterns.org/ )

Don't think I agree with this statement. While I admit I had not heard the term before, the link you provided seems to be showing examples of intentional deception to acquire additional resources through shady tactics (e.g. hidden fees, prolonged service, gathering/sharing/selling of personal info, etc). I question if that can even really apply in a scenario where you are literally giving something away. Yes, you do receive CV and that can allow you to enter more restrictive giveaways. Yes, perhaps the FAQ could include more information or the UI could be improved but I think that's a far cry from intentionally misleading people and doesn't seem fair to accuse the site of those kind of shady tactics. If you have proposals for specific things to be added to the FAQ or specific UI changes that could improve the site, then by all means, suggest away and I'll be happy to lend a +1 for support. But just being frustrated, doesn't make it right to slam work done by others.

I think you misunderstand what dark patterns are, they are deliberate decisions to de-emphasize certain things in favor of others in the hopes that the user will do some action that is not what they actually intended to do. In this case, the site throws a lot of information at the user and hopes that they won't notice the little asterisks when they are having fun giving away stuff. On the "review page" of a giveaway, does it indicate that you've chosen a game that does not actual have any value for the contributor level game on this site? Not at all, it has a "very small" message on the initial create giveaway page that pops up momentarily while you are selecting a game that you must be very carefully watching for, the asterisks. This is a dark pattern.

Instead of telling the user very clearly on the review page before they post that the game is valued at nothing, it has an intrinsic value (10P, 20P, etc) that appears to be this sites indication of value of that game, when in reality, that number is only one number, and there is another "secret" number that determines its real value. Why this isn't made more evident in the UI seems like a fairly deliberate choice, and which is why I identified this as a dark pattern.

There is a number associated with every game on this site the (10P, 20P, etc), this number indicates a value associated with that game, when you select it via the giveaways creation menu. On the review page, it shows very clearly that number at the top next to that game. Why is this number emphasized and the fact that this game might be worth 0 towards the fun contributor level game thing on this site not indicated anywhere except in a brief popup on the first page (which if you aren't careful, you will never in fact even see those little asterisks?

Was this decision made to make sure new users have a good time, or make sure new users will give away stuff without knowing that they are playing the game wrong?

Would you play a game where someone was deliberately concealing the rules to you? Seems kind of shady to me. Yes, I am aware this is a fun game, but the things changing hands have been very carefully looked at and deemed to either have value or not by someone, and that same someone has determined that it's more important to get more giveaways than to make the game fair to new people coming to play, which seems like a dark pattern to me.

So, you support deceiving new players, as it's only fair because you yourself were deceived? That doesn't seem like a nice way to treat new users.

I actually did read the FAQ when I came here, and the problem with the FAQ is that it presumes they already know the mechanics of the site before reading the FAQ, which is a dark pattern. Let me ask you this, if you were brand new on this site, and you saw this FAQ question:

--- What are "No Value", "Reduced Value", and "Full Value" giveaways? How do they affect my overall contributor value? ---

Would you immediately know why were telling you about "No Value, Reduced Value, Full Value", if you hadn't seen it in the UI yet? I hadn't seen it in the UI because it's only in one very small place in the UI that only shows up and is valid to look over after you've made a giveaway. So, even after reading the FAQ I didn't know how it applied to what I was doing. And the little asterisk that shows up only works if you have the game show up for longer than a second or two. And the review page doesn't show this information at all. So, you can see, the decision to make the FAQ the way it is, and to design the new giveaways the way they are is explicitly designed using a DARK PATTERN such that the user thinks they are participating in the fun contributor level game on this site, when in reality they are not.

DaRk PaTtErNS

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It's a signature of a dark pattern when the UI encourages a non-experienced user to do something that they did not intend

the UI: https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaways/new

* Reduced value towards your contributor level.
** No value towards your contributor level.

proper user reasoning:

"i wonder what a red asterisk means?"
"reduced contributor level?"
"no value?"
"better check the FAQ/rules/guidelines!"

others:

OMG I GOT 0CV
WTH
STUPID SITE
DARK PATTERNS!
CALL THE FBI!

the site won't help you if you don't put at least 1% effort into learning how it works. you keep repeating dramatic terms and they don't apply in this case, at all. 🤦‍♀️

https://www.steamgifts.com/about/faq

When creating a giveaway and selecting a game, you'll notice "No Value" games are marked with a double asterisk (*), and "Reduced Value" games with a single asterisk (). If you hover over those icons, you'll see the effective date for the value adjustments. For example, if a game is marked with a single asterisk (*), and hovering the icon shows "Reduced value since January 4, 2018", this would mean giveaways created for that game on January 4, 2018 or later will receive reduced contributor value. Games typically receive no value or reduced value when they're featured in bundles, heavily discounted, or available for free in online promotions. Their values are adjusted this way to better represent their true value. Keep in mind, the asterisk icons are just for reference, and the value of a game can be backdated if we need to make retroactive changes.
Games fall into one of the below three categories.

• No Value:
  No contributor value when given away after the effective date.
• Reduced Value
  15% contributor value when given away after the effective date.
• Full Value
  100% contributor value when given away.

https://www.steamgifts.com/about/guidelines

View attached image.

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I read the FAQ. The item in question is buried at the bottom, and it doesn't tell you how it applies to every single giveaway, it doesn't say that you need to watch out for asterisks in the create page, because it won't show up in the review page. It's designed to be deceptive, which is a dark pattern. You can waggle around your experience with the site all you like, I'm claiming this is a legitimate problem only for new users.

If you don't care to make the site pleasant for new users, and support deceiving new users, just say that you support dark patterns, and that'll be it. :)

Dark pattern? Deceiving?
There's usually a way of people learning how something works. Read the rules, if any questions are left then ask people.
But coming at it as if there's some kind of evil intent behind hiding stuff or it's a deception - smh
This isn't a gambling site where you pay money to play. You can enter Level 0 GAs.
Or are you angry that your GAs were not worth a rise in Contributor level?

If you want to discount my experience as a new user as it pertains to improving a non-intuitive user interface, and one that I think is a dark pattern, then congratulations, you win. I'm not here to try and tell you that the information doesn't exist to avoid pitfalls, I'm telling you that it's subtle and designed explicitly to confuse the new user.

Here is what the create giveaway form shows for me after selecting a No Value towards contributor level game.
https://i.imgur.com/GXdnxMZ.png

Where in that picture does it tell you that the game is worth no value? (By the way, I don't know how to include pictures in posts, so I just made an imgur link, hope that is okay :) )

I don't think this is a gambling site, and I'm not under some impression that I'm entitled to something just because I give away a game. I tried to learn how this works, and I read the available information to me, and then, due to the dark patterns in the UI, I did something that I didn't intend. I'm not angry by the way, I'm simply trying to help improve the experience for other new users because it was somewhat of a roundabout way to learn what was wrong. The UI doesn't help you with this, and the FAQ isn't terribly useful if you don't know what you are looking for.

I'm a new user, I'm relaying my experience to you in hopes that I can improve the experience for other new users. That's all I'm doing.

You are conflating two different mechanics together which is why you think it is a Dark Pattern. The value of the giveaway to the people entering has nothing to do with the value that is contributed to your CV(Contributor Value).

The point value of the giveaway (10P, 20P) is only applicable to the people entering the giveaway. It is the amount of points of their ration that they are given that it takes to enter the give away. True that it is loosely based on the normal retail value of the game (not including sales), but that is only a loose connection point.

CV(Contributor Value) is a complex value that is very confusing at times. It is confusing because the system was put into place to handle people buying up bundles to game the CV system to get access to higher level giveaways without the same cash that others had already put in. It is based on the value of a game at the current moment, this is why you can actually go down in CV over time as games lower their prices overtime.

I can agree that the asterisks are small and you really need to know to look for them, but I would hardly call it a Dark Pattern. To me, it lacks the major component of "Intentionality" (look I made up a word according to my spellchecker). I doubt the use of the asterisks are designed to mislead or misrepresent things. The designers were looking for a clean and effective way to adorn the games cleanly.

With all that, I agree that it could be made more clear on the game creation page and the review page that this game will get 0 or Reduced CV.

You're the one misunderstanding what dark patterns are by referring to this as a dark pattern. Nothing in the UI causes someone to do something they don't intend, and neither the site nor the other users get any advantage out of a user creating a No or reduced CV giveaway instead of a full value one. So even if there is a UI problem it's not a dark pattern because no one is hoping for any particular action from the confused user.

Second, it's not a momentary pop up, it's right there before you even select a game, and stays there after you select a game:
https://i.imgur.com/fOHdfl3.png
It would be nicer if it said what the reduction (15%) for reduced value games is, but otherwise it's clear even to someone who hasn't read the FAQ that a) those games are different, and b) that no value giveaways give no value.

I read some of your answers and this one for example stuck out to me "If you don't care to make the site pleasant for new users, and support deceiving new users, just say that you support dark patterns, and that'll be it. :)"
So, yeah, you did across as being angry and if someone having a different opinion than you means they are some kind of "dark pattern supporter" or worse then I find it hard to take you seriously.

I don't know if it's intentional or just a strange adaptation to the site over time, but all I can say is that it should be made more clear so that if someone is giving away a game that will earn them 0 or reduced CV, it should be made very clear in the review page, it is not, so that is where I feel some improvement should be made. The fact that it isn't there already seems kind of intentional and why I called this a dark pattern because someone made the decision to include the asterisks on the page, but the asterisks disappear as soon as you select the game, and if you didn't see them before typing the game, you will clearly miss the value of the game. This just makes it a bad experience for someone that wants to take part in the Contributor level game on this site and is inexperienced with the site mechanics.

It might be bad design, but I highly doubt this design is intentionally deceptive, which is a key component to Dark Patterns.

Can you seriously answer this question: What do the site creators have to gain from this?

You yourself questioned why I would dare suggest that something be improved, suggesting that I didn't read the rules. I did read the rules and I tried to use the site. I used the term "dark pattern" as it's the term for that kind of design: "Dark Patterns are tricks used in websites and apps that make you do things that you didn't mean to, like buying or signing up for something." (or giving away something to play the game not knowing that certain things have more value than others)

But the asterix disappears when selecting the game and I did it five times and I had even read the FAQ and missed this. The site is faulty. Dark pattern I tell you!

• I uh... thought this had to do with SG having a dark mode, or even "too many dark modes" when I read the title, haha. Go figure. -

Now while I am rather studious regarding rules and FAQ (and always paranoid about getting it wrong regardless), the CV system seemed pretty clear to me. Even if I didn't read or remember much, the * and ** remarks when creating a GA and looking for a game make it pretty clear, no? Then again maybe it depends where your priorities lie.

I mostly buy bundles with a few games I love and give the rest away here because I own them already or don't want them, and hope they make other people happy. I'd be lying if I didn't sometimes think "awww man, this game was free at one point?" but I still do even the 0 CV GAs because there's bound to be people out there needing it.

And it's just as valid to want to partake in SG for the contributor level as it is for just making people happy.

But what I don't see is how SG is deceiving. I looked at that Dark Pattern link but I just don't see the connection. It's not like the site is actively sabotaging anyone's progress, and the reduced and 0 CV games are, in the end, par for the course of "this is why we can't have nice things". Because if there was no need to worry about the users (not the site!) trying to exploit the system, there wouldn't even be a need for that. But sadly it is needed to curb on people running their bots on freebies or mass-buying bundes solely for e-points. But again, there is no deception. What you need to know about reduced CV value isn't written in white font on a white background or something. The information as to how and why things work as they work here is there, you just need to look for it. And, and this goes for pretty much any site you're new on, if you can't find it or are unsure about it, ask around for help. Tends to come across much better than accusations and conspiracy theories if you ask me.

I have not been indoctrinated to write this comment. XD

Wanting to improve this site, or any site, is a great thing. Wanting to make things more accessible is commandable. But, as with all things in life, it's the tone that makes the music (as we say here). Saying you ran into a problem trying to figure something out is one thing. Accusing the site of outright manipulation is another.

Cha-ching! My 0,02€ delivered.

YMMV, I wanted to play the contributor level game here on this site, and it looked fun. I looked at all the patterns in the UI that led me to make the mistakes I made, and I made the judgement that it seemed like a dark pattern. For instance:

Why doesn't the No Value, Reduced Value, Full Value show up on the "Review Giveaway" page?

Why is the only place I can see the items that contribute to the Contributor Level a tiny number hover-over on my profile, it took me a little bit to find it. That seems intentional, don't you think?

I don't know what the intent of the designers of the site are, I'm just saying this is my experience as a new user and hopefully something positive can come from it.

and I'm not under some impression that I'm entitled to something just because I give away a game. I tried to learn how this works, and I read the available information to me, and then, due to the dark patterns in the UI, I did something that I didn't intend.

You say you're not under the impression of being entitled to something but then you refer to doing something you didn't intend to do because why? Because you gave away games but didn't get any CV for them? So doesn't that mean the reason for giving away those games was because you believed that you would get something in return? Because that's exactly what it sounds like to me. You gave away games because you thought you'd raise your level with them but then found out that they were 0 CV games because they've previously been free and now you're blaming the lack of information even though it was available but you've clearly didn't bother to look at it.

Hey Verifex, welcome to Steamgifts! (I hope you don't introduce yourself to every new online community in quite this way!)

I think if we can get past the "dark pattern" conspiracy theory, there's actually a pretty solid suggestion embedded in this thread, that should be easy enough to implement.

Simply put:

SUGGESTION: Keep the asterisk(s) in place after a game has been selected on the giveaway screen.

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