Brienne beat Loras in melee, she is among the top fighters in the land along with The Hound. I say it's a good match up, and the scene was great.
Cold Hands and Strong Belwas I can understand their removal. With only 10 episodes a season, there's only so much you can fit in.
The bomb throwing, I don't even... I mean. They're magical. So, I guess that's part of their magic?
Jojen may be dead in the books, see "Jojen Paste" theory.
What's so different about Sansa and Littlefinger?
I don't think the Tyrion/Tywin scene was done right, though. The whole Tysha part was left out, when it was even setup in the show early on.
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That's the one thing that really bothered me. The whole conversation between Jaime and Tyrion sets the scene for Tyrion's subsequent actions and haunts them both for a long time after. At the moment Tyrion still doesn't know the truth about Tysha, Jaime doesn't know about Cersei sleeping around, and Tyrion hasn't told Jaime he killed Joffrey which was one of the most amazing and awful lines in the books.
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Loras is only supposed to be a good jouster I thought, not necessarily a great swordsman (in the steel sense, at any rate.)
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Erm - Loras, at least in books, was quite a great swordsman. Maybe not top Westeros one, but pretty damn close and before his "accident" it was often mentioned that he's still young and has a great future ahead of him. Jaimie or Brienne were better, because they had a lot more of experience, which Loras still lacked, but definetelly he wasn't a wimp ;)
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I've read the books and I picked up that he was a good swordsman (i.e. better than your average run of the mill foot soldier) and a very good jouster... But nothing super special with a sword. I guess that's just down to interpretation of the writing, he's as good as your imagination lets you think having read a description of him / him fighting.
For example, I was under the impression from the books that he'd kick the backside of most of the men in an army in 1v1 sword combat... But there was several people who'd beat him - I think Bronn would for example, Jaime would (before he lost his hand), Oberyn would (have done), Darkstar (probably) would, Brienne definitely could, the Hound probably, the Mountain (but he's basically unstoppable), Syrio Forel would be a good match (but probably not beat him). And Selmy would beat Loras I think.
In jousting though, he was basically the top man or so I thought.
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I'm not saying he's top swordsman, like the ones you mentioned, but I'm saying he's quite great. In books Jaimie himself told that he has a great potential, but is lacking actual battlefield / fight-to-the-death experience all top swordsmen already had. You said that he's onnly supposed to be " a good jouster" with which I disagreed ;P I never told he's top-notch one - but saying he wasn't a great swordsman is imho going too far.
Look at it this way: the fact you're capable to qualify to Olympics but cannot outrun Usain Bolt doesn't mean he's a great runner and you're not. You still are. Just not the best ;)
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Brienne beat Loras in melee, she is among the top fighters in the land along with The Hound.
I was semi-agreeing with that line... I was saying that Loras was a superb jouster and a good swordsman, but not the best swordsman in the land. I agree that Brienne is up there with some of the greats but beating Loras didn't necessarily assert that status. She didn't fight fairly if I recall correctly? Cheating and winning is still cheating. I think she would have beaten Loras even she hadn't cheated.
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I was talking about in the books she doesn't fight Loras cleanly - she jumps onto him or something doesn't she? She doesn't bite him though.
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keep in mind that they didn't have too much time to fill the whole Tysha theory into an episode - and Tyrion may as well find out early in next season. It doesn't really matter if he finds out from Tywin, Jamie or anyone else. In books it only increased his hate towards Tywin, but for story itself it's not important. Keep in mind that in TV series Varys seems to travel together with Tyrion, so I think he may as well explain him some left thingies in the beggining of next season.
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So sounds like you are saying that the books are better than the show. Yet you don't want people to enjoy the superior version? :P
*disclaimer: I have only read the books, never watched the show
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Keep in mind that David Benioff and D. B. Weiss know how the books will end. They have no reason to change the eventual endings of the characters. If they leave out characters, it's because they've written a way to achieve the same ending without them. I haven't read A Dance with Dragons yet, so I don't know how important Coldhands turns out to be, but if they killed Jojen last night, it's because he's going to die at the start of The Winds of Winter, or be otherwise out of action for the rest of the series.
Just trust them. They know what they're doing.
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Still 2 books coming. I bet even Martin doesn't know how it will all end. So characters killed now might be needed later on. They are working closely with Martin though. So he probably does advise them on who is kind of safe to remove or rewrite.
I fully enjoyed the Brienne and Hound fight scene though. Especially since The Hound was already tired - from his wounds, traveling and the life he had lived. While Brienne was fresh and had the resolve The Hound had long lost.
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I don't think they've done a terrible job, just with their limited episodes they try to keep the large number of people limited.
I was pretty pissed off about Hounds death too, in the book it's more brutal and Arya is more cold-blooded when she leaves him, thereby showing us just what path she has decided to take. In the TV series it just kind of fell in place in she was like "OK well, whatevs, I'ma leave you to die. YOLO" and rode away.
One thing I'm totally not OK with is the Jojen story, he's awesome in the books, and I kinda feel sad for him.
Also not cool that they didn't bring her back, I mean wtf...what better ending to a season than to show her face - everyone would be talking about it for months.
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I guess you'll see "her" in the next season...
I don't know why they don't show her during the last seconds, it could lead to a good discussion for people who didn't already read the books.
PS: Asking "her?" is a good way to eat a spoiler, so in case of doubt, don't ask :P
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I have a small problem with her not turning up this season - it's going to have gone out of people's minds... It'll have lost the shock-and-awe factor it had in the books if you ask me. Think of the time span between the seasons.
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If they're filming her for s5 then it'll be a short section anyway. I doubt s5 will go beyond the content of the current books and she doesn't exactly have that much stuff in those books of I recall correctly?
It could have fitted quite nicely into this season if they'd taken out some of the stuff where Jon goes back to Crasters for example.
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well - a lot of "secondary" characters are getting just a scene or two anyways - and afaik she will have at least one longish scene according to the books. filming a scene rthat takes even few minutes may easily take a day so it may be worth it then (not to mention post-processing, as we don't know if she will wear makeup or will they use some CGI). Wasting all this effort just for 3sec closeup may not be worth it ;)
It's not like I'm defending them, I'd LOVE to see her and read all the rant on forums and in social media xD And laugh in the face to all ppl crying wtf is going on who never read the books, not to mention that such a cliffhanger could easily make few people read the books instead of waiting 1 year to find out what's going on - but I'm just trying to understand reasons for which she was not included.
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Oh yeah, I totally forgot about HER. That would be awesome cliffhanger. But on the other hand I may imagine that people who never read books start ranting over the internetz and someone joins discussion and spoils it. It would be too big spoiler bait ;p
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(SPOILERS)
inb4 Lady Stoneheart rant
(SPOILERS)
I haven't actually read the books (too many books in my backlog) I'm just well informed hehe
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The way I see it is the show is based on the books rather than being an exact replica or enactment of the books. The show producers are allowed to alter the story in ways that won't seriously damage the plot under artistic licence such that they get the millions of viewers they need in order to afford making it.
Small alterations such as the removal of certain characters and the addition of other scenes (Hound/Brienne, Jon returning to Craster's, Bran & co at Craster's etc.) don't harm the plotline whilst keeping the viewers interested - non of the those scenes were particularly boring, people will have been rooting for both sides of the Brienne/Hound fight to win and worried about their side loosing, people will have been worried for Bran at Craster's then happy that Jon might re-meet them and save them then scared when Karl the fookin legend was about to kill Jon... It all serves to increase the interest in the show.
In my opinion, if you want to enjoy the world to it's best, read the books. There is a lot more background and all the images of what people and places look like are given but your mind conjures up what you actually see.
If you want a good TV series with some fantastic acting, gratuitous tits and sex scenes, gore and plot twists, then watch the TV series.
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Its silly to ever think books will be the same as any series or movie. They're based on the books. You have to pick and choose what to put in a TV show/movie while still maintaining the narrative threads. Gibberish fantasy names can be hard enough to keep straight, without them including dozens more characters.
I figure I'll probably read the books a few years down the line after the show is done. I love the show (so happy Peter Dinklage found such a great role).
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Well, they really should follow the books more closely...We all know what happened with Ender's game...
GoT starts adding too much pointless stuff while leaving other things behind. By example prince oberyn. I don't remember reading how he wanted to have sex with that dude. So GoT adds pointless sex scene while they could have filled that time with something else, like a discussion between tyrion and jamie about tysha.
Sure, sex sells, but one season of GoT has more sex scenes than an entire book.
About Sansa&Littlefinger. Well, in the books Littlefinger knows exactly what he's doing. He knows how to explain Lysa's death, he doesn't have to be saved by that whiny ****. He knows how to win the vale, he's one of the major players in the game of thrones. The TV version of him is...worse.
And what about Dolorous edd? He has quite a lot more lines in asoiaf... and he's such a nice dude
Oh, and Tormund's story with the bear... Really, i don't remember seeing that in GoT...
“I was in me Ruddy Hall, with only a cask o’ mead to keep me company and nothing to do but drink it. The more I drank, the more I got thinking about this woman lived close by, a fine strong woman with the biggest pair of teats you ever saw. She had a temper on her that one, but oh, she could we warm too, and in the deep of winter a man needs his warmth.
“The more I drank, the more I thought about her, and the more I thought the harder me member got, till I couldn’t suffer it no more. Fool that I was I bundled meself up in furs from head to heels, wrapped a winding wool aroud me face, and set off to find her. The snow was coming down so hard I got turned around once or twice, and the wind blew right through me and froze me bones, but finally I come on her, all bundled up like I was.
“The woman had a terrible temper, and she put up quite the fight when I laid hands on her. It was all I could do to carry her home and get her out o’ them furs, but when I did, oh, she was hotter than even I remembered, and we had a fine old time, and then I went to sleep. Next morning when I woke the snow had stopped and the sun was shining, but I was in no fit state to enjoy it. All ripped and torn I was, and had me member bit right off, and there on me floor was a she-bear’s pelt. And soon enough the free folk were telling tales of this bald bear seen in the woods, with the queerest pair o’ cubs behind her. Har!” He slapped his meaty thigh. “Would that I could find her again. She was fine to lay with, that bear. Never was a woman give me such a fight, nor such strong sons neither.”
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Really, 1 year ago i got really interested in GoT, so i read the books...
And now i'm pissed off because HBO changed too much stuff...Really? Brienne vs The Hound?
She got her ass kicked by Rorge, now HBO wants me to think she could kill Sandor?
And where's Cold Hands? Wasn't enough that they removed Strong Belwas? They remove that cool dude too?
And that annoying children...he's throwing bombs?
Also why the f* they killed Jojen? He's still alive in the book...Same with Robb's wife.
Oh, and what about sansa&little finger? Their story in the books is much more interesting, littlefinger IS a genius in the books...now he's saved by that whiny little bih?
Also, Tyrion&Twin scene... at least that one was done right...and the episode was released so close to father's day.
Anyway, if you want to enjoy GoT please don't read the books...at least don't read them past the point where the tv series got to.
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