What's your opinion on the pose being removed.
I personally wouldn't mind every character having a playful pose (Nothing too sexual, it's in the end a shooter, not Leisure Suit Larry)
Being the game PEGI 12 they all wouldn't be really out of place.
It is true, tho, that I kinda dislike this particular pose being removed, just because the battle.net OP seems to imply that a woman can't be sexy if her defining qualities are other. That is, she's either defined for her sex appeal or for any other particular characteristics. I like to think, tho, without wanting to offend anybody, that a person can be attractive and/or playful without that being the lone and only focus of their personality.
Comment has been collapsed.
Impossible to tell but my first reaction when looking at the image was "is that it ? ..really ?" but then I looked again and thought that the character could easily be interpreted as being quite young .Maybe that's the problem ? ,I didn't read the article btw .
Comment has been collapsed.
That was my 1st justification too, I don't really know what her age is supposed to be, but she does indeed look young so maybe that's why it made people unconfortable.
On the other hand I think they are supposed to be some kind of Special OPs or whatever, so it's difficult to imagine a person without some life experience in those situations.
The article is mostly filler, tbh.
Comment has been collapsed.
So basically, the idea of young woman in sexy pose offends people, while the idea of young woman carrying guns and killing others is just OK these days?
Comment has been collapsed.
I guess I can kind see their point with it being sexual, but it's not dead or alive level, "overtly sexual" is a bit much. I don't really see the problem with it, but whatever. I don't think they should have removed the pose, but I don't really give a shit. I am dreading the response and backlash "respectful and mature" Internet community.
Edit: Typing with a phone is SUPER FUN!!!
Comment has been collapsed.
I freaking love her accent to be honest. I don't play Overwatch or intend to but she's my desktop wallpaper. <3
Comment has been collapsed.
I've seen much worse. People will rant about whatever topic they can find to rant about.
Comment has been collapsed.
You may want to include the actual reason it was removed, before you make a big fuss over it:
Posted by Jeff Kaplan
Well, that escalated quickly…
While I stand by my previous comment, I realize I should have been more clear. As the game director, I have final creative say over what does or does not go into the game. With this particular decision, it was an easy one to make—not just for me, but for the art team as well. We actually already have an alternate pose that we love and we feel speaks more to the character of Tracer. We weren’t entirely happy with the original pose, it was always one that we wrestled with creatively. That the pose had been called into question from an appropriateness standpoint by players in our community did help influence our decision—getting that kind of feedback is part of the reason we’re holding a closed beta test—but it wasn’t the only factor. We made the decision to go with a different pose in part because we shared some of the same concerns, but also because we wanted to create something better.
We wouldn’t do anything to sacrifice our creative vision for Overwatch, and we’re not going to remove something solely because someone may take issue with it. Our goal isn’t to water down or homogenize the world, or the diverse cast of heroes we’ve built within it. We have poured so much of our heart and souls into this game that it would be a travesty for us to do so.
It was a simple creative decision, where player feedback in beta helped convince them to follow through on a decision they were already highly considering.
This happens all the time in game development.
As far as the rest- if individuals [and there were several] feel the pose didn't match the character, well, they have a right to their subjective opinion on that matter. Seeing as the developers themselves seemed to agree with that assessment, and they're the ones who determine the character, it would seem the opinion is "correct".
Nevertheless, those opinions don't invalidate someone else's view that the pose was okay- though, interestingly, noone I read actually agreed it fit the character, they just made a big deal that women should be allowed a sexy pose. ..which.. is awkward, and actually supports the point being made.
That being said, the 'back-breaking over-the-shoulder' pose is directly associated with treating women as objects, regardless of whether it expresses sexuality or not.
From what I gather, it was that perceived demeaning element that the individual in question had issue with- which seems understandable.
Had they chosen to change the pose to a more natural, bent-at-the-hip over-the-shoulder pose, I imagine it'd have been okay as well.
Comment has been collapsed.
I read the article, I quoted all the sources and I tried to present the OP and the poll as neutral as I possibly could. I just wanted have a nice discussion on the forum, all the information is there available for whoever wants to check it. The headline is directly copied from the article.
Where and/or how am I exactly making a big fuss? You tell me.
Comment has been collapsed.
Where and/or how am I exactly making a big fuss?
You mean aside from right here, over my non-hostile, grammatically-correct phrasing?
noun: fuss: 1. a display of unnecessary or excessive excitement, activity, or interest.
Also, you omit key information and present a specific viewpoint of the matter.
How is that neutral?
Also, while we're picking at things: you're using Nor wrong in the poll :P
Comment has been collapsed.
ESL. Cut me some slack. ;_; (It's neither...nor, right?)
If I tell you the actual truth, I just skimmed the article, was bored and was like, hey, this can be a discussion. I hadn't actually read the post you posted, and I comented before your edit, which made your post seem way more hostile.
But fuss implies negative connotations, I didn't try to blow the matter out of proportion or anything, you don't see me rallying at Blizz officesss to ask for the skin back, right? :-p To be honest, I don't even play Overwatch, and I couldn't care less which skins they add or remove, it was only a pretex to covertly open a thread about sexualization of videogame characters.
Comment has been collapsed.
But fuss implies negative connotations
Mild ones, as far as I'm aware. Fuss is as often used positively (ie, 'The parent fussed over her child leaving for her first day at school' or as a synonym for 'hype').
It inherently just has the 'interest' meaning, but it's most often used in association with excitability, which can be interpreted negatively or positively depending on context. (And in fairness, most idioms related to it are in fact negative in meaning).
A lot of how it's interpreted is tone, which is a lot harder to convey through written text :P
Well, I apologize if it came out hostile, I just meant emphasizing the sexual elements wasn't appropriately based within the actual matter at hand.
Misrepresentation for the purpose of creating drama is always an ugly business, and can lead to the expression of some nasty mindsets, so you can understand if I felt clarity was important.
As far as the overall/intended topic, have at it, but I feel you might want to present a more straightforward presentation of the topic, then.
At least on that topic, my response is far more concise: "Censorship bad, inequality in expression bad, dehumanization bad, bad art bad, exploiting sex for sales bad [and usually majorly disruptive to narrative], not pretending things like sex don't exist good, more available style options good, strong character consistency good."
It's all exceptionally straightforward, unless you feel some need to hardline a binary viewpoint in the matter. Neither of "Sexualization of women always good" or "not including something is automatically censorship" makes much sense in most cases :P
P.S. Nor is a negative form of or. like neither is of either.
"I'm fine with either explicit sexuality or lack of sexuality in games."
"I'm neither fine with expliict sexuality nor lack of sexuality in games."
(Presumably, this second outlook means you want inexplicit sexuality in games :P)
>>
Comment has been collapsed.
No need for apologies, man. I must've put a tone to your message that wasn't there when reading it. It was a simple misunderstanding.
anyhow, I'll try to edit the discussion when I arrive back home, because now I really should go run some errands.
Comment has been collapsed.
There is always someone out there that complains, and they usually seem to listen to the one or two complaints rather than the majority of consumers/customers.
This was nothing to get in an uproar about, so I chose 'Strongly Disagree'. I am not a fan of censorship.
Comment has been collapsed.
Guess I was too tired to notice. Personally, her having that particular pose didn't feel out of character to me.:)
Comment has been collapsed.
The pose doesn't rustle my jimmies at all. It's quite ridiculous how some feminists are trying to make female video game characters less sexy, more fat, more covered... I mean, as someone who uses "slut-mog" on her WoW hunter, I don't wanna think about times when all new games will have fat girls dressed like Eskimos.
Comment has been collapsed.
Honestly, unless you have connections to the north for some reason.. I feel like you'd rarely come across the names other then Eskimo. It's like how aboriginal peoples of NA get called Indians where (in Canada anyway) they consider themselves First Nations.
I wasn't trying to be pissy about it though, just to clarify.. just throwing in a random 'hey did you know..' kind of thing! :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, better safe than sorry to be honest. I didn't know before, but now that I do I will properly refer to them from now on, it doesn't amount to much (if any) effort, so well.
I mean, I wouldn't like too much being called, I dunno, a guido.
Comment has been collapsed.
Off topic to this main post.. but just want to throw in that Eskimos is slang and considered highly disrespectful. There are several different indigenous peoples in the north.. in Canada they are called Inuit (and I believe in Alaska they are called Inupiat and Yuit). I can't remember what they are called in Greenland and Siberia atm.. it's been a number of years since I lived in the north and I'm forgetful in my old age. (I'm forgetting a few of the smaller groups too actually..)
The word Eskimo merely means 'people who eat meat' (in their language) and general consensus there is that it's derogatory.
Just an fyi.
Comment has been collapsed.
"While since the late 20th century numerous indigenous people viewed the use of the term "Eskimo" as offensive, because it was used by people who discriminated against them,[4][5] in its linguistic origins[1] the word did not have an offensive meaning.[6] Alternative terms, such as Inuit-Yupik, have been proposed,[7] but none has gained widespread acceptance." Wikipedia
Comment has been collapsed.
Not everyone gets offended by everything when they are throwing out facts.. and sometimes fyi, is actually just an fyi. Just as the other person said "TIL".
1 - Sure would be nice if sometimes on the internet people took things in the spirit it's written and realize not everything is an attack.
Comment has been collapsed.
As a fyi, and i'm really not trying to start any argument on the subject so please don't take it as such. A ton of languages(my language is among them) other than English have no other word for said peoples so don't be surprised if a large part of the people online continue to use the word and it never dies out. No one uses it as a derogatory/disrespectful term(at least that's what i hope), it's just the word we're used to and to us it simply refers to those peoples as a whole.
Comment has been collapsed.
As I mentioned (a couple of times now), I was only using it as an fyi. Throwing it out there so people would know. Does anyone remember those commercials? The more you know!
I'm neither pissy nor offended by the usage here, (I don't care, I know they prefer Inuit (or whatever) and I use it because it takes nothing from me to do so) I just wanted to let people know that to them, it was a derogatory/disrespectful term. If you continue to do use it, it's your own choice.
I imagine many people come from cultures that have tags added to them that they would rather never hear used to describe their culture again. Languages evolve... or as someone else pointed out, simply say 'native peoples of...' (which is typically what I do when I don't know what they call themselves).
... honestly meant it to be 'Hey, btw did you know..?" - "Nope, now I know!" That's all really..
Comment has been collapsed.
My post was a "fyi post" as well, i specifically pointed out i was not accusing you of anything. I was simply trying to explain that it's difficult to expect someone who is not a native English speaker to stop using a word just because someone decided it's not PC anymore when to him, in his own language, said word has never had any negative connotations. Yes languages evolve, but depending on where you are in the world in the world and how important said "evolution" is, it may take a long time to happen. Also, i would rather not call any modern group of people "natives" or an individual "a native" because in my language it's synonymous with the word "savage" and, even if it's not the case(because English is my second language and my brain still thinks in my own language first), i would feel like i'm actually insulting them.
I apologize if anything i said in my previous post came off as an attack, it was not meant as one.
Comment has been collapsed.
Gynophobia and envy are typically the roots of these types of complaints.
The game is full of killing but that passes without notice.
Buggs Bunny is full of attempted murder but what people demanded be censored was Buggs putting on a dress and kissing Elmer.
The only real problem is that the model has unrealistc articulation.
Comment has been collapsed.
But that's a problem with the american media in general. It might have some historical roots or something, but sexuality, specially when concerning women, is legit feared by many, but that is in movies, TV, etc etc.
I would recommend the documentary This film is not yet rated which is somewhat about the double standars with violence versus cursing and sexuality.
Comment has been collapsed.
Huh, it seems like some people really, REALLY, like to complain.
To me that pose looks more like she's trying to see the glowing thing on her back, not everyone is immediately looking at her ass, that speaks more about the one making the complaint that about the public in general. That said, she does have a nice ass now that I look at it. What's the problem with that?
Comment has been collapsed.
Have people not seen the main heroine in Bayonetta or anime series drowned in fan service? Tracer's pose is practically tame. Nothing indicates Tracer has a big ass except some dark shading on the left cheek. Also, her body is covered in clothing; that is a rarity these days.
However as the Internet goes, anything and everything will eventually be victim to Rule 34. Change Tracer to a fat slob with one eye, balding head, and the body of a 100 year old woman and someone will find a way to sexualize her.
Comment has been collapsed.
TB is making fun of that complaint, talking about Winston
Comment has been collapsed.
I think they should stick to the lore and build the character talk's, poses, skills, everything around it.
But changing the pose can be something they wanted to do, but i dont think this one is better than the other.
Fan service is fine but changing the character lore or just ignoring it to make a new pose or skin or something like that i cant agree with that.
Comment has been collapsed.
Like someone else already posted, it wasnt entirely the reason it was removed. Was removed mostly because it didnt fit her character.
If the OP had asked to remove the post purely because the pose didnt fit her character, then Id have probably agreed because it did seem a bit...off compared to her other poses. I mean, with the pose they replaced, all they honestly had to do to make it fit her character was not stick her booty out so far, and bring her feet together so she stood taller and looked lighter on her feet/more agile. But then near the bottom he starts bringing up his kid and his idea of a "strong female character", and thats when I disagree because it seems to assume that a silly, spunky character like Tracer cant possibly have a sexual side too.
Comment has been collapsed.
The sexual side is liked, but not needed in Overwatch's plot.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm offended there is not enough spiderman posts. Spiderman is my bai<3.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm offended that you're offended of the lack of pizza.
Comment has been collapsed.
Hm, that can easily be corrected.
PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA PIZZA
Comment has been collapsed.
Trying to play morality police never ends well... and for all the talk of wanting that character not to be sexual, the fact they removed it because it was "too sexual" shows that they were doing that themselves.
Comment has been collapsed.
I still don't see what's sexy about that pic, but I guess some peeps are turned on by literally anything. :D
Comment has been collapsed.
BANANA! :) Yep, you capture the problem here well. Nothing is bad with the pose, it just does not really fit the character. When first seeing this on the net, I thought that she is twerking, or something like that. But I seriously can't see anything overly sexy in that pose. She is looking back behind her shoulder. And so what? Is that a bad thing?
Comment has been collapsed.
1,252 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by Abletoburn
12 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by bill9228tw
16,518 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by tariko
7 Comments - Last post 3 hours ago by eldar4k
26 Comments - Last post 6 hours ago by Uroboros
179 Comments - Last post 7 hours ago by Hawkingmeister
97 Comments - Last post 7 hours ago by Gamy7
61 Comments - Last post 1 minute ago by Vincer
53 Comments - Last post 19 minutes ago by canis39
29 Comments - Last post 44 minutes ago by Zelrune
117 Comments - Last post 56 minutes ago by VinroyIsViral
95 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by ObsidianSpire
17,271 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by Carenard
13 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by Yamaraus
So an user wrote a complaint on the battle.net forums regarding this particular Victory Pose, shown by the Blizzard Overwatch character Tracer (attached image at the bottom, might be considered NSFW for some (?), I dunno better safe than sorry)
From what I infer from his post he is uncomfortable with the idea of sexualizing a character whose lore does not present her as a particularly sexy (?) (can't find the right word here, pardon me) but has other defining qualities, as opposed to other Heroes (?) whose sexuality is a more prominent part of their kit, such as the sniper Widowmaker or the K-Pop singer, D-Va
What's your opinion in the matter? Do you think that the distint characteristics of Tracer do not mix with her being overtly sexual? What's your opinion in general on sexualization of both female and male characters in video games? Is it an issue? If so, why?
Feel free to elaborate on the matter, and I would like to beg y'all to keep the discussion civil.
I found the topic on the following pcgamer article
If you were looking for a giveaway prepare to be disappointed, not gonna bribe you guys so that you express yourselves, I'd rather we all discussed for the sake of it. <3
NSFW-ish?
EDIT: Be sure to check out Sooth 's comment for some more context
Comment has been collapsed.