What giveaways should I make in the future?
I generally like the SGTools ones, but there are off cases that suck, like someone having a flag from 2 years ago, but has otherwise been a stand up member. I don't think it is fair to all the good level 0's out there to do level+ GAs, but the hassle is so much hassle that I rarely do level 0s myself anymore. :(
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I wouldn't do the 'no multiple wins of the same game' one because they can be impossible to shift, especially for a big developer giveaway. But my reckoning is that someone can (almost) always find an unactivated win from somewhere and activate it to clear their record.
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This is my take as well. I don't care much about your multiwins, but go ahead and fix your non-activations, please.
I voted for SGTools protected train with lax rules. Doesn't hurt to throw in some others as well, as a cunning fox has pointed out elsewhere.
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Good points about how difficult it is to undo multiple wins when developer giveaways are involved. I usually limit SGTools filters to check for multiple wins within the last 2 years, but I think I'm going to do away with this check completely and stick to case-by-case manual validation. If something is really off, I'll just request a reroll.
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Blacklisting is at least as controversial as SGTools, but if I felt somebody was actually taking the piss over that kind of thing it's something I would deal with manually on a case-by-case basis rather than through automated filters. There are clearly different opinions about what is fair but that would be mine.
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I think I have an idea for a rule that would allow the vast majority of the 940,000 users on this site to enter the GA, including Level 0 newbies, but would block the few you'd feel uneasy to give games to.
((level==0 && num_won<=10) || (level>=1 && (real_sent_group+real_sent_region_restricted)/real_sent_cv <=0.9 && ratio_real >= 0.1)) && pass_activated_rule && !VAC_economy_banIt means that users who can enter the GA include:
Level 0 with up to 10 wins
or
Level 1 or higher who won up to 10 times more than they gave, and whose value of exclusive GAs (group or region restricted) is not higher than 90% of the total value of their GAs.
In addition, all users must have activated all games won and must never have been trade banned by Steam.
Unless someone can point to a fault in this rule or show that it's unfair, I think it's going to be my default moving forward.
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I currently have no comprehension of those kinds of rules. I can make boot disks for DOS games or sequence MIDI on an Atari ST, but scripts and bots and so forth are now beyond me. It's why I'll never get into Touhou giveaways amongst other things.
I'll try and understand though - I didn't want to rule out level 0 users in this train - I simply didn't think it would be compatible with ratio rules.
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The ratio is calculated by real cv given / real cv won. This way, a user who gave value of $100 and won $200 has ratio of 0.5, while a user who gave $200 and won $100 has ratio of 2. A Level 0 user would have $0 / $some-value, which ends up with a ratio of 0, and below your 0.2 threshold.
In my suggested rule Level 0 can enter if they have up to 10 wins, which I think is very fair.
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For concept checking, in one of GAs I've used "((real_won_cv-real_sent_cv)<666)" as a part of ruleset. Worked out pretty well with "clean profile" rules and is simple enough to be understood by the majority.
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Use this custom rule, set to whatever period you like:
last_multiple_win <= date_modify(date('now'), '-1 years')
This one means no multiple wins within the last year, but you can adjust depending on how big or small of a window you want.
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That's what I've been using so far, with a period of 2 years. However, I just realized that the issue of undoing multiple wins doesn't only apply to cases where the GA creator is not active on this site anymore, but also to cases (like developer GAs) where the sheer number of winners makes the GA creator unwilling to invest the effort to help the winner undo multiple wins. I'd rather leave this check out of my rule and do it manually, where I can better decide if I want to ask for a reroll or just let it be.
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I genuinely appreciate the input, but for me the issue isn't the time scale but the problem of big developer giveaways where it can be impossible to get a reroll. It could have been two weeks or two years ago - somebody could still be stuck with a black mark they can't remove whatever they do.
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Do as you wish not as others do. Your giveaways are yours. If they complain about free games, are they worth giving to? I used to care about blacklists and stuff like that but now I don't. If they don't like what I do, what I give or how I give it... I don't want them in my giveaways and I don't want to be in theirs!
I do a bit of everything. However, giving off steam to personal friends is the best feeling in the world so I do more of that :)
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you know for a sadistic chicken, you are not very sadistic.
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Well, I got nothing to add here... Totally my thoughts.
Except that I was looking for a "Why the hell would you care what others think?" option in the poll...
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Well. I don't have any opinion on how you should do it. But you should just ignore everyone complaining for whatever reason. As long as they don't do better they have no right to complain. Also, everyone COMPLAINING about a game they WON which they entered voluntarily should be punched in the face. Several times. And then again. Just tell me they didn't complain to you about the game they won from you.
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Don't get me wrong, most people have been really happy with the games they won! But I have had a few problems, including somebody who didn't want to activate his win because it was a crap game. That was when I realised a lot of people use bots and scripts to enter public giveaways.
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Once I was complaining about a game that I had on my wishlist, even got all of the achievements, but it was still a buggy mess and it failed to keep up it's promise ( Ronin). But I would have felt the same if I buy the game, because it turned out only later that it's just not as good as I thought - I'm still happy that I won it, because I was really happy at that point, and still I got provided a chance to play it "for free". I just thought that I'll make this a standpoint, compared to the kind ofo a person HH6 described in his reply to your post - complaining to win "shit" games is rude, and as he stated proves that user uses an autojoiner. But in other cases, it just turns out that the game is not what it looked like. And at that point there is nothing else left than standing out proud, that yes, this is not a really good game, but yes, I wanted to get it, and I'm happy that I had the opportunity to try it out :D
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Yea, it is fine if you tried it out and found the experience disappointing. Seems fair to me. But I got the impression the winner complained because he didn't like what he won which is (as you said) just pure rudeness ...... I'll just believe that those user are the really special minority
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Public giveaways for level 0 users without rules and things like that. ^_^
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It's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Except when you suddenly get a non-activation flag weeks after a giveaway. Getting those through support (unless you are DeltaBladeX) can be a small nightmare.
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unless you are DeltaBladeX
And that's why we might need public blacklists...
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They used to be back in SGv1, I wonder if that wouldn't be seen as calling out nowadays.
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Hm, not sure if we're talking bout the same thing. I remember people posting long lists of names with people they had blacklisted. They didn't state the reason, but if you were new (or heck, some people don't bother having an opinion of their own) you might just copy them from all the celebs round here because you could be assuming they might have had legit reasons to blacklist them -> kind of calling out, isn't it?
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Train protected by SGTools rules. I'd suggest using a custom rule for multi-wins, like "no multi-wins in the last 6 months".
No gifts for those who don't appreciate what they win, and if someone rants about it... let's face reality, they don't actually care about the games they win, all they want is a +1 and free cards.
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It gets the best results if I feel like promoting my art
Not necessarily. It is a proven fact (many people did the test) that public giveaways get very few attention. Most entrants don't bother reading the description. Fucking leechers.
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Most entrants don't bother reading the description. Fucking leechers.
Actually: most entrants don't bother opening giveaway pages. Fucking autojoiners.
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I promoted my channel both ways and I confirm this. Forum train gave me much better results, plus it gave me an awesome opportunity to know some peeps a bit better around here by making convo in the comments section.
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I'll say first of all that promoting my art isn't my main reason for making giveaways, it's just something I've experimented with and that I figure I might as well take advantage of as a bonus. And yeah, posting in discussions generated a lot more interest and useful feedback. But public giveaways got me a lot more hits on my art sites, and even if it was just bots crawling through links looking for more giveaways that boosted my search rankings.
I think if I ever was going to aggressively promote my stuff the way to do it would be through public giveaways. And also I'd make an alt account and use it to promote the 'other' stuff.
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And also I'd make an alt account
Not on SG I hope. :P
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I was joking about that, I think there are rules against NSFW links. But now that you mention it my neighbour does have unsecured wi-fi...
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Plot twist - CG is your neighbour and your joke will get the site's owner permabanned \o/
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Many people appear to be of the opinion that SGTools is the elitist, exclusionary cancer that is killing Steam Gifts
well, it appears there are causes of death, but this is one of the most leading and promising one.
not on it's own mind you, never on it's own
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Yeah, sure. No offense in my question. I was (and still am, as you don't explain your point of view) curious as of why you think so.
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Those who follow the rules and those who don't?
Seriously, if we had a better support here I might agree with you.
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You mean the ratio thing? To be honest I had similar thoughts when more and more people were showing up with a totally elitist approach to gifting (I consider asking for anything above a 1:1 ratio elitist and I've seen people ask for 3:1 ratios). I see that less and less tho lately, with some exceptions.
Plus I'm thankful for this option as well, as everything under a 1:5 ratio is something I do not like to see as winners of my giveaways. Even if you don't have a lot of money - and it doesn't take much to give, I gained most of my levels while being dependant on social welfare - you can still be considerate with your winnings and not go full greedy.
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I've seen some people using VAC / Trade ban (indefinitely or in last year) as well - I think I can agree on the trade ban, not sure about if I want to make a connection between VAC and SG.
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I don't think many people would mind so much if it was just about following the rules, but I think SGTools giveaways and the growing list of options may be enabling a growing obsession with punishing 'leeches' and finding ways to stop people 'exploiting' the system.
Nobody wants to see somebody with stats of 226 games won, 1 piece of cheap DLC given, and 4,000 games on their Steam account. But it should be a place where people who can't afford games can have a go at winning something even if they can't afford to give much back, and some of the SGTools giveaways I've seen are taking this place to exactly the kind of elitist circle jerk some people always moaned about.
I've even seen people using 'minimum real CV given in public giveaways' as a requirement. That's mental. There are people who won't make a public giveaway for fear of a leech getting their game who also won't give games to other people who don't make public giveaways because they are afraid they might be using groups to exploit the system.
To me it's just a tool but I can certainly understand the concerns that some people have.
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If you continue reading to the next reply I wrote to SillyScream you'll see that I pretty much share your point of view.
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You wrote that while I was making my tea. My cat tried to outsmart me but I got the better of her.
I'd agree, but I'd also add that for the people with the worst ratios didn't get there just by not giving back - but also by entering a lot of giveaways for games they were never going to play.
If you can't give back then at least be more selective about what you take. Don't be like my cat.
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Even if you don't have a lot of money - and it doesn't take much to give, I gained most of my levels while being dependant on social welfare - you can still be considerate with your winnings and not go full greedy.
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Clearly still slightly distracted by the battle for the prawn salad...
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...or use a combination of all of the above!
Make a public Level 2 giveaway with a link to a closed discussion which contains a poorly hidden train the first car of which is Bad Rats and links to SGTools to protect the rest of the train.
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I've thought of doing something like that, but the problem with this approach is if someone already owns the game or is not interested in it, they would miss on everything else, even if they might be interested in some of the other games.
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I'd go for fully public, but that's me. Since you said in the description of the second option that you'd enjoy that the most, go for that. This whole SG thing really means diddly dick unless you get some fun out of it from time to time. After all,it was your money put into those games.
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What's your philosophy behind that again? Have I asked you before? I'd do anything but level 0 public gibs and those are the only ones you're doing (to be fair, you only seem to gift bundle leftovers, I might think different if I'd did that - but then ... this is still a community, and I don't see myself being supportive of people who only take and not give themselves).
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You mean why I do two-thirds public lv0 giveaways? People tend to not believe it, but the sole reason is "why the fuck not?". Nothing more.
But since I am getting to the point where I enjoy that less and less, I started to not care about bundles for their CV/dollar ratio and care more about trying to get a few bundles which may be popular for group giveaways. So, I guess, my public ratio will eventually drop, but I am not sure if I would want it under 50%. But not before level 10. I'll hold out at least until then.
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Oh really? Only because "why not"? I thought there was a deeper feeling connected to it. If you enjoy it less and less (and may I ask, why is that so?), why not raise the level and gather some new experiences ;)
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It's getting tiresome to chase around winners. On average, I'd say 10-15% of my winners had to be harassed in some form or another to finally activate the damn thing, or be rerolled because they never took the keys, as they apparently entered for something they absolutely didn't want.
(On a side note, about 10-15% of the winners had to be rerolled for breaking some rule or another before the autojoin scripts were rewritten to enter a lot less giveaways in order to avoid 24-hour suspensions. Now I had a few weeks where I managed to survive without making a support ticket.)
But what really made me tired and starts to make me feel really burnt out were the sudden retroactive inactivation marks. I still have one running right now, currently at a new rerolled winner who is unresponsive for days despite being active both on SG and Steam several times one day. I am honestly thinking that after the week passes, I just provide proof of sending the key and ask for a forced activation again.
I have started raising the level on occasion, but then I just look at the charts of how many people sit on each level, and ask why would I do that. At level 4, we are at about 1% of the user base, I think? Meaning a level 4 giveaway shuts out 99% of the SG users. What would be the point for it then? So I just do it in case I put up several keys of the same game and make 1-2 of them level-restricted.
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A lot of those level 0s (or level 1s) are inactive and/or only traders. I'd like to see those stats of people who have created or entered a GA in the past two months.
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This is what I tell myself. But I'm edging a lot closer to say that after I hit level 10, I've done my service to the generic community and drastically reduce the level 0 open giveaways and the mass bundle key purchases.
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My account was hacked 2 years ago, guy who did this got me 2 VACs. Steam Support don't care. And cuz sgtools giveaways i wanna kill myself.
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I wouldn't use the VAC ban restriction on SGTools myself because it generally isn't something that people can fix - people can correct a bad ratio or get a copy of a game they won to activate, but punishing people for old VAC bans seems harsh.
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The main issue I see with VAC bans is that there are false positives (e.g. if people use a benign mod or texture pack). This is why I don't check for VAC bans in my SGTools filters. Trade bans on the other hand should get zero tolerance. CG seems to agree with me, because "Scamming Users" is grounds for a Permanent ban on first infraction:
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I have mixed feelings about VAC bans. Mostly I'm reluctant to use an automated filter against something that people can't 'fix' - due to my own issues with the legal system I believe that there should at least be the possibility of people redeeming themselves and getting a second chance.
But on the other hand I know people in real life who have gotten VAC bans overturned because of false positives without extraordinary effort, which leads me to suspect that almost all people with VAC bans are either doing it to prove a point for a youtube video or actual cheaters.
And also, regardless of the rights or wrongs of VAC bans, one of the earliest games I gave away that got regifted was apparently because "It would have been wasted on my account because of my VAC ban". And I've seen a lot of traders that went rogue and ripped a lot of people off and then abandoned their account after getting VAC bans.
All things considered I wouldn't use VAC bans to exclude people myself but I can understand people who do.
I used to do a lot of trading and scamming people is something I have a bunch of people blacklisted for and it pisses me off when people are all "why am I blacklisted?" and there is a no-calling out rule and it makes me look like a dick and I know I've been blacklisted before because of that and had people in discussions telling people to blacklist me for blacklisting other people for no reason - but that's another story...
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Just give all the games to MuIIins, she will win anyways.
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Gleam stopped allowing Steam giveaways when they heard I might be using them to promote my game.
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gleam? that's old...
we have a new site to spam trash keys, gimme.one!
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My chicken would wreck that thing. It even chases the cats about and steals their food. Just saying.
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I have no control over her. She won't go in her enclosure at night. I assumed a fox would eat her but they won't. She comes in the house and craps on the furniture. There are three cats including my own and I've tried to suggest the chicken would be really tasty but they just hide under the sofa. My neighbour has complained about the chicken attacking her dog and I told her to take it up with the chicken directly but she is afraid. We thought she was just grumpy because she was broody and set her up with a cockerel - she hatched all the eggs and then ate the baby chickens in some kind of cannibal infanticide carnage. That is the absolute truth. That chicken is probably running Digital Homicide when I'm not looking.
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In the end it's really up to the individual giveaway creator to use something or not and make his or her giveaways like he or her wants to.
I hear and read SG drama that SGTools is cancer and that's it dividing the community but then again SGTools (requirements) are one more tool to make giveaways like having the other tools like high CV requirements, group giveaways, private giveaways, puzzle giveaways, encrypted giveaways, forum nominations, whitelist and blacklist, ...
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Sgtools can be used with time past for vac bans and multiples. I personally mostly do public GAs, I've done at least one for every level. I've had rule breakers on almost every level as well. For least amount of headaches, it's usually 5+. I always check their profiles, sgtools, and sometimes if they have blacklisted me (which I find a bit scummy) . I also have some for groups/whitelist. I also do puzzles, but my puzzles take me time to craft, so there have only been two so far. I'm curious what the community will vote.
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Even at level 5 I have had to ask for multiple rerolls for pieces of DLC that the winners owned, which surprised me at first. But in the defence of those users they were polite enough to ask for a reroll!
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If you want least amount of 'problems' (in very wide sense) use SGTools train with "clean profile" rules. (well, there is also very high level option, but that's not what you want).
Forget ratio rules. They work badly for low levels. If you have to, use difference of sent and won $ values (real or raw) to cut off worst cases of ppl entering to add +1 to account stats
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make a jigsaw puzzle with a single color and 400+ pieces, i heard it's the most fun experience on sg!
SGTools protected train with lax rules
Cons
contains hidden referrals in the deals
there, the tool that enforces rules to 110%, but breaks a very basic one.
funny how the fanboys defend it to death.
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You can't tell me that people wouldn't have more fun with a 400 piece jigsaw of Gaben oiled and naked. And nobody told me about the referrals before, why am I always the last to hear these things? It's like that time there was a gap in the wall between the boys and girls changing rooms when I was at school and I only found out about it ten years later...
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It's like that scene in the Matrix with the red pill and the blue pill, except without Laurence Fishburne.
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a 400 piece jigsaw of Gaben oiled and naked
That sounds like a plan to me >:D
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I'd paint that. People who think I'm bluffing about that kind of thing often end up full of regret.
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Can't we make it a oiled and naked Scarlett Johansson, Morgot Robbie, Nicki Minaj, Reese Witherspoon or a young Morgan Fairchild?
C'mon Man, have some mercy....
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I didn't know about those either, so are the hidden referral links in the ads you see?
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All solutions are good for the share :)
For you to see if you prefer make a puzzle, a train or a party view of the public / private.
I see sgtools rather as an additional tool , not the solution .
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Voted for tools... that way you can blame tools for any error :p
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In hindsight, the poll should have had an option for 'democracy is the enemy of Steam Gifts!'
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I personally prefer trains since it gives me the very weak reason to introduce steamgifts the crazy stuff I find :D.
Honestly, do whatever you feel is best and don't give a fuck about those who bitch. You should give because you enjoy doing it, and anyone who wastes their time trying to bring others down is not worth worrying about.
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I used to feel guilty about bothering SG with random crazy things, but then stats got brought in that let me see how many people had blacklisted me and I felt guilty no more.
It's not so much about giving a fuck about people who bitch - more that I worried about making the people who didn't bitch unhappy. I thought I'd ask anyway.
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I give away any bundle leftovers but I also try and give away some nice games as well. I prefer if people play games but I try not to judge people on that - I avoided the site for some months because I got in trouble for not playing games I won, but I was just stuck in the middle of a flood and I'd been playing games in offline mode because I had no choice. I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt on that one. I got put off doing whitelist giveaways because a few people won games that it turned out had me blacklisted and I don't have the patience to sort that mess out.
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Edit - A common saying round here is 'ask a silly question and get a silly answer'. Clearly Brexit wasn't enough for me to learn that also applies to public votes, but here you go.
OK, obviously I know how to do that. But I'm going to have a bunch of games to giveaway soon and I find it stressful to decide the best way to do it (or at least the way that will get me into the least trouble). And I thought; "You know what, I'll just leave it up to other people. I'll have a poll and go along with what other people think is best for at least the next several months and then if anybody moans it'll be the fault of democracy." I'll add the train here in a few days if that is what is people voted for. The options are;
Public giveaways for level 2+ users
I started off doing public giveaways. I started trying other things because of the winners who didn't mark their games as received, the winners who complained they had won crap games, the winners who already owned the game, etc. But level 2+ isn't so bad, I guess because people at that level have had to run a bunch of giveaways of their own and understand what is involved, and I'd still be prepared to do that.
Pros
Cons
Poorly hidden trains in discussions for users of all levels
This felt like an upgrade to me in terms of winners - it seems people who are paying enough attention to notice a train in discussions also generally pay enough attention to mark their games as received. And also meant I could have some fun with simple puzzles, choose-your-own adventure trains and themed trains. But did also come with a few drawbacks.
Pros
Cons
SGTools protected train with lax rules
After a few bad experiences I recently experimented with an SGTools giveaway with rules of no unactivated wins and a minimum games given ratio of 0.2 - which I didn't think was unreasonable and overall seemed to work quite well.
Pros
Cons
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