Should kids shows bring up death and depression?
Yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxlj4Tk83xQ Sesame Street already did it. Somebody on that video said it best. It prepares them for when a relative dies.
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Yes, but didn't they get in trouble for that episode?
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Kids shouldn't grow in their own perfect world. If kids learn early about death and depression, they'll know how to react to it too.
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And yet you STILL have those parents that want their kids to grow up knowing nothing about it. The over protective ones.
You see that a lot these days.
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It's stupid. If kids grow up without knowing most of the negative things that exist in the world, their world will be crushed when they suddenly find them out. Of course, you'll have to talk to them about death, for example, in a way that won't make them sad, but mostly educate them - but not with lies.
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The thing is, kids don't see these things as "super duper bad", as we, adults, do. I still remember being a kid and you just see the world differently. I disagree they'll "learn" about death and such. They're just kids watching a cartoon.
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I'd argue that... I found a frog once, I tried to claim him as a pet and named him Fred. I was maybe five at the time max. My mom told me I couldn't keep him so I tried doing the dog, "You can't stay here, go!" sort of goodbye. However he never hopped away. So I gave him a little help and picked him up and threw him as hard as I could and told him he could fly and that I loved him and wished him luck.
Only to realize when talking to my mother later that me throwing Fred more than likely killed him. When I realized what I had done I was devastated. I cried for a few days after that.
So I saw death as "super duper bad" because I was attached to the thing that died. Which would be my counter-argument. Just wanted to get the premise out there first.
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Well, this is a good argument. But you literally killed your (almost) pet lol. Yeah, you were attached to him, but killing him is a whole lot different than seeing characters die in a show. I remember I cried once, when I was very little, while watching Zatch Bell. It was a scene where Zatch died or something like that. But it was just a child's tear (probably because of how strongly they depicted the cute character suffering). As I said, I don't even remember the scene exactly, but I remember talking about it the next day with one of my friends in school and we kinda didn't care anymore. I'm sure things would be different if I had killed Zatch with my own hands lol. Real life events will affect kids much more, that's for sure. Poor Fred, man.
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So let's look at that little snippet. "Grandma died because she was old."
Verses, let's say savage car accident leaves kid without a father and mother that now needs to be numbed by pain-killers or something stronger for the rest of her life.
How is that kid protected? What part is natural to them that seems so corrupt to others? I think it is not just a parents job but we as people, as a collective, as a society, as a neighbor, as a friend... We should ease each other into the deep waters of life so we don't have to take the plunge. And if we do, there should be a net that catches those that fall.
I'm all for Sesame Street and other cartoons trying to prepare the youth of the future about this shady thing called life. Because let's be real, life is fucked. But it doesn't have to be fucked alone...
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How sooner they get taught that not everything is fun and games, how better for their mental development.
Otherwise they end up as mature cry-babies who get nothing else done than nagging and complaining along with the need for so-called safe-spaces because they can't handle reality as it is.
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I think that's absolutely appropriate. The only danger I see in such cases is exaggerated expectations, since in shows every problem is gone and dealt with after one episode and that's not how life is. But that applies on almost every TV show and especially those for kids simply can't accomplish a more complex approach on those topics (that's the parents' job), so I think it's good and helpful they cover them at all. Definitely won't do any harm.
Of course some parents don't like it because they want to protect their children from anything dark, but the fact they can't do that is a lesson they (the parents) need to learn eventually.
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Yes, in the end everything gets well. But only in kids shows and not in reality. I don't want that they learn it through their own experiences, but they shouldt taught in the media that things can end worse. In my opinion this would be a good way to show them the meaning of reality.
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I agree that this could be good, depending on the show (death has always been around in Disney movies for example and actually quite a lot of kids shows deal with it). But in the end people often don't even want to see reality in TV, I mean it's not something that happens only kids shows, but also in almost every sitcom for adults for example. Not everything needs to get serious and tough and we're talking about Pokemon here. If this show would cover every important topic in a realistic way there wouldn't be time for the core of this series anymore and sooner or later it would get too depressing for little children. Also, going on with having fun and being nice to people even when bad things happen is also a lesson.
I guess the greater issue here is that kids need to learn distinguishing between fiction and reality and this is something that adults have to help them with. So while this episode of Pokemon alone surely doesn't prepare anyone for death, I think it's quite good as measured by the resources of this show and the fact it's also watched by preschool children.
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There are good and bad things in life. If you want to see really bad things, watch the news.
People who don't want to be confronted with the bad things in entertainment simply close their eyes from reality.
I agree with you that childs should not be confronted with this topic in every show, but it's not bad for them if this happens from time to time, so they are at least a little bit prepaired should they loose a beloved one.
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While I do think that certain topics shouldn't be placed in kid shows (either as it should be the responsibility of the parents or it's simply inappropriate), this topic is one that deserves attention due to how it is going to affect them all at some point in their lives.
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Depends on the age of the kid. I don't think 3 year old should watch shows about death and depression. 10 year olds? Sure. Where to put the line exactly, I don't know.
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kids don't react to some stuff as adults do, and most of the time they don't even realize what they are seeing so it's harmless/pointless.
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When I was in kindergarten our teacher read us a story about a grandma who died and a mother explaining to the granddaughter what happened to her grandma, in simple words.
I agree that kids don't react to things the same way and it prepares them for if and when death happens in their family.
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I answered yes, but I also need to clarify my selection further. It's not that I think they should bring up these topics, as it's not required in all shows, but... At the same time, depending on the show, I don't think they should shy away from the topics. Ofc, parents need to do their part and talk to kids about things too, let them know tv is fiction, but could deal with very real subject matter, and let their children know they are there to talk about anything they see and are curious about.
When I was a young child, cartoons I watched had a fair amount of mature content which made me curious with questions, times were different. But cartoons aside, I had some potentially traumatic events in my youth. My mom always took the time to talk to me honestly about everything, and I'm thankful for it all.
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First off, good that they didnt understand, its only normal that they dont, like we didnt.
Secondly, no, if you want to turn your kids into emos and ruin their childhoods, happy toughts, etc. then why dont you force them to watch war documentaries, animal planet shows where predator animals always kill and very bloodily at that, your every day/night news that mention casualties and murder. Death should stay out of kids shows, it messes them up, personality wise atleast, its unnecesary and stupid, and in my case, i fucking hated whenever cartoon characters died, even the bad guys whom i enjoyed more so than the good guys here and there, i fucking hated that. Now i wont say im a victim of what ive described, but im definetly no proper functioning citizen either. If you want death, theres plenty other sources to visit, cartoons should stay cartoons, entertainment media, not pain and suffering inducers.
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i dont think kids shows should be trying to teach your kids anything,they should be what they are... entertainment,life lessons should be thought by there parents and there personal experience,not producers of a tv show who care nothing for your children and only care about ratings and or politics,im glad my child grew up prior to the rubbish that is pushed on our kids these days on tv.if i was to have a child today the first thing i would do would be to remove every tv in the house and have my wife home school it.
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children's television had an educational component for years. Teaching right from wrong has always been a part of even the most vapid children's shows. That started to change in the 1980s, when toy companies started creating shows, but, even through the nineties, most kids shows had morals and life lessons, even if they were disguised in fluffy entertainment.
I'm not too familiar with shows from the 2000s and 2010s, but some of the ones I've watched still teach life lessons.
But feel free to pretend that it's a new thing
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Its one thing to teach common things that cant really be helped like stealing has consequences,not to hurt other people,dont set fires..etc. thats not what im talking about its another to try to indoctrinate them with politics/religion leaning in ether direction and that's pretty much what they all do these days,same as most tv shows as well as news.
As a parent i feel that other parents have the right to raise there children the way they want and as such should know what there kids are watching by ether watching it with them to explain things and decide if its what they want there kids learning or not letting them watch anything you do not know until they are old enough to make there own decisions and understandings,there are to many special interest groups out there using tv to push there products and ideals on our children and expose them to things that should be reserved for later in life.
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I hope you home-schooled your kid to avoid grammatical errors and run-on sentences.
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Don't forget about punctuation as well, especially for compound words!
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I can and have designed and manufactured multilayered circuit boards for computers/cell phones like the one your are enjoying,can and have programmed Cnc mills to make parts used in our us military's air-force with a +/- .0001 tolerance accuracy, and have been a welder for the state of California keeping people safe from failing bridges and other structures,and have built many homes,all so you can enjoy being a douche about someone using punctuation on compound words on the internet,guess we cant all be good at everything...enjoy
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No actually that would be me wifes job shes the one who cares about what ignorant people think, i could care less what "grammatical errors" i make as long as my point in made.
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I don't think there's any children's cartoon series that is "just entertainment". Anyone taking the time to create a television series is definitely trying to educate someone about something.
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Most I can think of (past pre-school fare) are 'just entertainment'. If you try hard you might find some redeeming values, but it's generally mainly sitcoms of absurdity (for the American stuff).
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I think you must not be paying attention then. Almost every situational comedy is attempting to elucidate its viewers on some type of subject matter that is beyond "just entertainment" through the veil of tomfoolery.
Just like a book: it's not about the cover, it's about the content of each page. As it's not about the concept of the show, but the content of each episode.
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He definitely uses a concept heavy base -- almost every title of his shows are direct tells -- but still each episode or story arc has a point more often than not. I will say I'm not a fan of his work though lol
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I don't see anything in Spongebob or Back at the Barnyard, or The Penguins of Madagascar, or pretty much anything else. As I said, if you try hard you might find some very shallow stuff. I mean, sure, they might have an attack of "oh, I wasn't nice to a friend and that ended up hurting me", but considering most of these shows are about people/creatures behaving illogically and irresponsibly all the time and by some magic things end up okay (or not, as is often the case in Spongebob), I think that anyone thinking they're educational is rather delusional.
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don't worry, I'm pretty sure a couple of posters in this thread are delusional.
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If I think back to the 80's and 90's, the shows made by toy companies was nothing else than promotion. He-Man, She-Ra, Ghostbusters, Ninja Turtles and so on... Only made to sell their products. This marketing strategy is still used today.
I'm not sure but I think before it was the other way around. First the show for educational purposes, then when people demanded it came the merchandise in the stores. The Smurfs are a good example, they was everywhere.
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Better to delicately explain the realities of this existence to them than brainwash them about invisible wizards in the sky, right? ;D
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Having Re-Watched all what is it now .. 12 ? 13 seasons of pokemon ... there are quite a few things that i didnt get when i was watching them the first time when i was younger ...
I dont think having serious topics like that in a kids show is a bad thing ... it is a bad thing if they are presented in a shitty way tho .
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kids can understand complex topics better than most adults think they can. I'm all for letting them deal with topics like death, disease, discrimination, war, famine, etc.
I'd rather my kids watch a pokemon issue dealing with death than, well, anything spongebob
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Spongebob is one show I'll never ever encourage anyone to watch.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/watching-spongebob-makes-preschoolers-slower-thinkers-study-finds/story?id=14482447
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Kids shows nowadays are a lot more tame than they used to be.
Just start watching all the old cartoons from your childhood, or even the ones you skipped out on, and you'll find endless jokes for adults that you missed as a kid.
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Do you remember the Smurfs an the smart Smurf with glasses? At the end he got always kicked out of the village.
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Do I think kids should taught about death and depression? Yes.
Do I think that it should be a TV show explaining it to them? No.
Once upon a time, it was parents who raised their children.
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And that's your argument against this?
Tv shows, cartoons, even games etc can be the impulse that make children ask their parents and start a discussion about things.
Life, death, the dreaded "where do babies come from?" :D
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TV shows are impersonal, one-sided conversations that cannot take timing or feedback into account. As children live, they experience "things." It is up to their teachers to explain the how's and why's of those things, and parents are especially well-placed to deal with delicate or troubling information. Parents know their children and (most often) care deeply for them, using their best judgement in determining what information their children need and when. To think that a TV show---something that cannot even measure the response of a child, much less react to it---is the appropriate instructor for a small child on weighty matters borders on neglect. The TV is a tool, not a teacher.
Since it seems my point was missed, before, I will repeat myself. Parents should be the one raising their child, not the producer of a TV show.
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I agree with the spirit of your answer, but TV shows can be a little more than what you think about them. There are things that show makers know about how kids of a certain age react. Dora/Diego for example deliberately speak in a loud voice and have repetitions in order to engage and teach. It might not work on every kid, but it something that works in general.
Most shows, certainly shows beyond preschool age, don't do that, but TV shows can still be enablers. They can raise subjects for parents to discuss with this kids, which might be harder to broach or explain from scratch. Sure, books can work the same or better, but TV is a very popular medium, so I think it's better to make an attempt at making it educational rather than disregard it completely.
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My point remains; TV is a tool, not a substitute for a real live Educator. I think you understood from my answer that I was not advocating complete disregard for TV. Rather, I was clarifying that the ultimate responsibility for a child's education is the Parent or Guardian. It is for that reason that parents are told to watch TV alongside their children rather than letting their kids watch it alone. As a teacher and a screenwriter, I am aware of what can be done with a TV show, and I watched the shows with my own small ones while they were growing up. I was there to oversee the viewing, so I was able to explain (and sometimes contradict) some of the messages being fed to the kids. Yes, even on shows like Dora the Explorer. And the more serious the subject matter, the greater the need for supervision.
Many adults are passive watchers, absorbing what they see on TV without questioning or thinking about the messages they are given. Those writing the programs have their own agenda which may or may not be in alignment with what the adult believes or thinks. While it is foolish to be a potato in front of the tube, they are adult viewers and the choice is theirs to make. Young children are not qualified to make such a choice.
(Shout-out to potatoes.)
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Sure, I agree with you. And from your answer I feel that you think that TV does teach kids something (even if not always what you want). My point is that if TV teaches something (such as about death and depression) and that's an opening point for a parent that may be better than many other ways to raise the subject, and therefore I disagree with your initial assertion that TV shouldn't be teaching that. Sure, parents shouldn't leave it completely up to the TV, but as a starting point, it's better than nothing.
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Sure, parents shouldn't leave it completely up to the TV, but as a starting point, it's better than nothing.
I think perhaps I should clarify what I originally said in response to a Pokemon show that breached the topics of Depression and Death. In that context, the show presented a topic which should be under the control of the parents. Was there a huge warning at the beginning of the show about the subject matter? Were parents notified that the episode was going to be exploring Depression and Death? Or was it sprung on unsuspecting minors to the ignorance of their families? (I'm side-stepping the issue of exactly what is the appropriate age to be watching Pokemon.)
When the parents choose the time and place, and are there to supervise, a TV show can be a "starting point." When it's piped to a young audience without forewarning or oversight, however, it is inappropriate. I believe you are in agreement with me in that.
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Once upon a time, it was parents who raised their children.
Once upon a time, people were terrified of the sun.
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Some people were. But while ignorance regarding some matters has largely disappeared from the world, ignorance of others has increased and become widespread. Sadly, human beings do not always learn from their mistakes.
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Yeah, I was of course being cheeky. But truly, while parents should certainly be the primary force raising a child, external education also plays a vital part (tv/film, books, art, social, etc.). Particularly, the child learning the distinction and priority of said educational sources.
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Particularly the latter. As people get older and are better educated, they begin to use educational tools on their own, becoming their own instructor. It is young children who need careful oversight.
The 70's saw a dramatic drop in active parenting due to the "Sexual Revolution." Many children were born into families which were not properly trained and/or prepared for parenthood, and many kids grew up without proper parenting skills because their own parents lacked them. The fallout from that mess continues to this day, although many people recognize their need for education and take classes/read books/et cetera to acquire better parenting skills.
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you're overestimating what people were like during the good old days.
Some parents educated their kids properly, others didn't. Plenty of kids were roaming the streets back then, or were otherwise neglected. I don't think there's been particular times where there were (proportionally) more good parents, just that the manifestation of bad parenting (or good parenting, for that matter) took on a different form.
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I was around, back then, and I remember. My grandparents lived through the Great Depression and WWII, so I heard plenty about those times, too. I am not overestimating what people were like, but neither am I underestimating them.
This is all within the context of the U.S., of course. I didn't start traveling outside of the country until I was older. As you said, however, not everyone had "a decent education." Much of what people did learn, they learned from their parents, and that includes how to be a parent. Yes, we had orphans and runaways, but most people had parents and families. Yes, there were some families who were dysfunctional, but many more were not. Even with all of the stability and difficulty, the family unit was a rock in a stormy sea. It is human nature to fall back upon personal experience when you face situations for which you are not prepared. People parent from memory of their own parents when they have not learned otherwise. You cannot do that, however, if you have no memory of your parents' parenting. (To be fair, it is oftentimes better to have no memory of a parent than to have memory of a bad one.)
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Oh please. Dramatic drop because of the sexual revolution? If the 60/70s brought something it was the recognition that the old ways of parenting (i.e slap your kids if they don't follow orders) or society needed a change.
And the times before that where kids would roam the streets or had to work from the age of 10 or 12 because everybody was poor?
Those were the good times with active parenting?
That's even disregarding what kids were taught then.
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If you were there at that time, then you know changes were needed. You also know that a lot of society's "ways" were completely thrown out by young adults, the good with the bad. As I posted elsewhere, people have a tendency to overreact when they are riled up.
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+1. I'm of the view that parents should best judge when to have this sort of conversation. Not all kids are ready at the same time.
Also, every child should be allowed to enjoy the simplistic joy of being happy for as long as possible. They'll get exposed to real life soon enough. Let kids be kids for as long as possible without trying to help them be "woke" to whatever crusade people are on.
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"Children" is a wide age range. I don't think that Pokemon is meant for pre-schoolers, and I think that most kids who watch it will be able to deal with the subject of death, although, as you say, they (younger ones in particular) might not understand it or the depression aspect completely. Personally I'd rather have a show dealing with this kind of thing than the standard meaningless ones.
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Yes i think children in the world that we live in should be informed for anything that adults and parents want to shelter them from for their own good, but i think that they should first being informed from their parents or a legal guardian or someone a parent would aprove and trust them like grandparents or a godfather / uncle , after that they should be able to watch or read something and try develop an opinion for themselves. And again parent should be around to guide and not judge unless some occasions that would need to judge if the opinion takes a really bad turn
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My opinion, as a father of a 18 months old girl, is that yes, it is OK for shows to bring up serious topics but only if the child has had the proper feedback from an adult,
My baby still does not watch tv (apart from songs from youtube) but I try to be there for her in all her activities in order to properly frame what happens in her daily life.
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Yes, children even little ones should be taught about negative aspects of living like death and depression. I think its important to know about those before they have to experience it first hand.
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I think this is like asking if a child should be taught sex education. The answer is a resounding yes, but the better question is how and when (and by whom) should a child learn sex education.
young child - understand what's inappropriate, and what to do if someone tries to do something inappropriate
puberty - this is what your body is going through
young adult - this is how not to get pregnant / not to get diseases
note: I'm purposefully not giving age ranges, and purposefully not discussing morals
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Kids were too protected before and now we have all these super easily offended millennials. Lets not do that again ok?
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I admit, I have a thing for some kids shows. Admittedly, I STILL watch Pokemon when I see it on TV. Yesterday, I was watching the latest US episode of Sun/Moon which brought up a serious topic that I'm not sure that some kids that watch the show would have been able to understand.
The topic was depression and death.
You can watch the episode here subtitled.
So what I'm trying to ask is- do you think that kids shows such as this episode should broach the topic of death to children?
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