Are you going to go vote today?
Voting is important. Even if you just leave it empty...
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I've seen a few folk on my travels recently who are super proud of having never voted.....I wont try to change your mind, because I assume you're fairly unshakable, but do you mind my asking if there's a reason you haven't voted and have no intention to?
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Or if everyone who didn't vote, voted for one of the outlying parties, like Green or Independent or Monster Raving Loony Party...it would show the large 2 parties that they are not the parties that people are interested in.
It might not be enough to get any Greens seats, but it'll be a clear NOT-TORY or NOT-LABOUR vote.
Personally, today I voted not for the party that I wanted to win, but I voted to try and block a party from gaining seats. I'm paving the way so that in the years to come, perhaps my daughter can vote for the policies she wants, rather than trying to block policies that would be damaging.
I don't identify fully with who I voted for today, and I know that puts a lot of people off voting altogether, but by blocking some seats, I'm laying the groundwork to, in the future, have representation that I agree with.
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I have been very torn about wither I should vote tactically, versus voting for who I believe in, and it really came down to the fact that, if I voted for my preferred party, they wouldn't get in and my vote would dissapear.
By voting tactically, my vote has a chance to make an impact, to stop what I see as; an injustice, the trampling of rights of others and a path to the Darkest Timeline.
I'm playing the long game, because thinking in a short sided view, I feel, would be detrimental, and possibly unrecoverable. Lay the ground work, toil, and much later on, reap the benefits.
Nothing worth having comes easy.
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In Germany it is usually possible two make two votes - one for a party and one for a specific candidate. This is often used to give votes to two different parties. Simplified you can make a vote for a main party and a smaller party to create a "flavour" of desired politics, e.g. social-democratic-green or conservative-liberal.
We even have a federal state with a green prime minister (Baden-Wurttemberg).
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I agree, (though not being from UK) if nothing else, a vote for ANYONE else shows dissatisfaction with the current choices.
In the end, if not enough do this, it may not indeed matter or go overlooked, but if you can get enough for at least the losing party to go "damn, if we had got some of those votes we may have won" you gained something.
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The problem is, you might not give a fuck about politics, but they sure do give a fuck about you. As a young person that doesn;t vote, you are perfect for them. Older people tend to be more politically gullible, and tha's what they need to screw the country more and more.
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If you don't vote you won't have the riight to complain about the politics afterwards
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You should, especially in these times. A lot of serious issues are on the ballot.
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How do you think public services work? Did they just appear as if by magic? Or did perhaps someone suggest them in a manifesto and... drumroll ... they happened?
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Because books make you a more complete and more informed person. Subsidising these things creates a better society where people are more informed, have more empathy and can make better decisions on election day for example.
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Do you use the internet? Electricity? Buses? NHS? Go to music festivals? Watch football? Use childcare?
All subsidised by the government to a greater or lesser extent. Your vote helps decide what gets paid for. Whether or not you care is your choice. Pretending politics is meaningless bollocks that doesn't effect you however is nonsense.
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Shifting of the burden of proof. You said they were liars. Say what you think they lie about.
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Well, strangely enough, that thread was the first time I heard about the election... so jeah I was just surprised.
If you are that unhappy with everything and want to let them know, you could at least invalidate your ballot card on purpose. At least that's a thing in germany.
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i think it will be a really good thing if she gets a stronger government in Britain and the polls are now showing that she could take 100 point lead over the Labour and would be able to negotiate a better deal to the Brexit talks - if as predicted Theresa May can win this forth coming election clean and with a major majority on her side.
Wow, that thread is so funny :D
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Well, hold up, if they are a Tory fan, maybe it's ok that they don't go out and vote.....
I'm totally on board with one less Tory vote.
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As much as I love Carlin, this is such a ridiculous notion. It could only work in a world without extremist views.
If we assume that the people who live and breath politics...the people who only ever talk about politics, who have stopped being invited to parties because they either bore everyone or aggressively argue with anyone because they dared like a different candidate or policy...if we assume that they exist....then we can assume that they will go an vote regardless.
Let's assume that they are exactly the people who wouldn't want to make a decision on your behalf.
And if no one opposes them they are the only voice, and only their choice will count. They will be the deciding factor.
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Seriously? If someone's views aren't represented, you think they don't have the right to complain about the outcome? Ok, then..
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You dont have the right if you dont even take your chance to change something.
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even if both parties would do one think you like and two you wouldn't for example?
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There's usually a lesser evil. And politics are about compromises (at least in a democracy, that is).. for everyone (the parties, the politicians, the voters).
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If every candidate on the ballot is someone you disagree with, then you don't have a chance to change things, at least not in a positive way.
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It's amazing they think like that. And then they'll complain when tories won, and then they'll blame you and will "respect democracy" by chanting "he is not my president", etc.
I'ts fucking dangerous, but it's "your" fault. My god, just look how they talk, look how they think. It's fucking dangerous.
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Do you have right to complain if you vote and win or lose? As at that point you subjected yourself to democracy and it's outocome.
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Yes, because you have the right to free speech. You can tell the government that you don't like what they are doing and why.
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You do, because nobody can see wether or not you voted. It's anonymous. You're just a hypocrite to complain after not voting, but it's certainly not illegal or anything.
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Aren't you more hypocrite for complaining after voting? As you took part in process and got the results.
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Student A registered for uni. They went to all the classes, they took notes, they studied well, but they failed on the test.
Student B registered for uni. They skipped classes, didn't even borrow anyone's notes, didn't study alone at home. Student B failed the test.
Students A & B are complaining about their uni experiences. Who do you sympathize more with?
There is far less shame in trying and failing than there is in never trying.
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No, because the person who voted is participating in the system that gives him/her a voice. The other person doesn't even bother.
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But if other person considers that there isn't any good options. And the other person accepts the options and the winner by participating. What ever they do.
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The voter accepts that sometimes neither choice is good, but at least one is better. The other just gives up if there are no favorable options. That's how you end up with Trump and Brexit.
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You have always the right to criticize the government. Voting is the most effective way. Therefore criticizing, but not voting (including invalid) is somewhat contradictionary.
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No, that's not true. Don't vote for someone who doesn't represent you it's part of the democracy.
Abstention TALKS and SAYS a lot, and the people who diminish the abstention and vote for someone who is a thief or a bad politician and it's making a mess can't, or maybe musn't, tell me I can't complain.
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Who was our last PM with a facial hair? (Thatcher doesn't count)
Momentous day.
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Next weekend here in Italy there will be municipal elections in more than one thousand towns, but newspapers and tvs don't say anything.
Go and vote! Every vote counts. If you don't vote, then you can't complain.
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Collossal dicks have to be represented by a democratically voted government, too.
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Since I'm not that into UK politics, you probaby have to ask your fellow countrymen. On the other hand there are probably a few collossal dicks in every party. The question is if they're doing sth. for other dicks or just for themselves.
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Fun fact, on facebook, i've been in a relation with nick griffin (the leader of the BNP) since 2006
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Back in school everyone thought i was extremely conservative, so they put me in a relationship with nick griffin, it's been there since 2006.
i suppose it didn't help that i owned the 'BNP Music album' but it was all for school work i swear.
i also had to wear a KKK outfit in a drama performance on extremism (but they don't need to know that)
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Oh yea, I'm by no means a saint in literally every other aspect of my life. But if you vote, you get a pass today. This counts as your good deed for the month.
You can go push an old lady in front of a bus, and then the police arrive, you tell them that you voted today, and they'll let you slide. #fact
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This counts as your good deed for the month.
Or as your bad deed of the day, depending on which side of the political map you are compared to me. :)
Puppy killer!
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if i do a good deed, can i vote for an evil party?
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I'll always vote. EVen if my party doesn't win, it still counts against those I dislike.
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People who don't vote make me angry. If not for yourself, why not think about other people? Perhaps you don't think anything will effect YOU very much one way or another, but this is not true for everyone. I have a chronic illness, which I was diagnosed with about eight years ago. I carried on working for about four, then could no longer manage it. I've paid taxes and NI all my life (excluding the times I've lived overseas, in which case I've paid into local systems since you can't not, in the same way that young people come here and pay in and then go back home to start a family or whatever). Up until fairly recently, the DWP would take a doctor/specialists word for it if they said you could not work, and I'm not sure how you would go about faking that. I have seen about 20 specialists now and they all agree on my illness. It's frustrating because I actually really WANT them to find something else wrong with me, something with a cure, or at least some kind of treatment.
But that's not enough any more to claim disability, I have to go through constant 'work capability assessments' where a 'health professional' whose opinion apparently carries more weight than my own doctors or any of the specialists, gets to decide whether I am 'disabled enough' and deserve some payment from my 'national insurance' that I paid into to provide a safety net for exactly this kind of thing. Have you seen 'I, Daniel Blake'? I'm afraid it's exactly like that. If you swim, you're not disabled enough. If you sink, ah well, you probably were, sorry about that, looks like you're dead now anyway. I'm not being dramatic when I say that people are dying and no one seems to care. Perhaps Thatcher was right and 'there is no society'. It certainly feels like that to me right now.
So YOU don't use libraries? Great, that's up to you. Other people really love them and appreciate having them and I think an educated population is a good thing for all of us. I personally don't have or want children, but I would like there to be decent schools, as again, I think educated people make a better country for all of us. I think education should be free and people shouldn't have to pay tuition fees to go to Uni. I didn't, why should future generations? YOU don't see any benefits in voting for either party? Okay, although I suspect you're simply not seeing them. I get that, people have busy lives, I wasn't much into politics either, until it came and stamped me in the face with a boot. But even if you're right and there wouldn't be much difference for YOU, what about other people? How about voting to help THEM? Do you want a country that gives tax breaks to the rich and big companies, and where nurses and other working people have to go to food banks, the NHS is privatized in a system similar to the US and if you're sick you get bullied and harassed and made to feel like a 'scrounger' and a 'useless eater' over something you couldn't control or help or want to happen to you, or do you want a country that's a little bit fairer to those people? And also remember, it could well be you sitting here one day.
The more I am on the Internet today the more it is making me sad. If the tories win again, I know a lot of people (myself included) who don't think they will survive another five years of this. I have friends who own small businesses who think the same thing - austerity has destroyed the economy and their businesses and five more years of it probably can't be weathered. But people really, really don't seem to care, or else they believe what they read in the Sun and the Mail unquestionably. I hope to be proved wrong tomorrow morning but I'm not really very hopeful.
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So sorry you're going through this. Too many of my friends have had appalling experiences with the WCA.
I've been to vote today, and encouraged people close to me to use their vote.
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Don't voting for someone who doesn't represent you it's part of the democracy.
Abstention TALKS and SAYS a lot, and the people who diminish the abstention and vote for someone who is a thief or a bad politician and it's making a mess can't, or maybe musn't, tell me I can't complain.
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Not a UK citizen (nor do I live in the UK), so not allowed to vote. I wish everyone who's allowed to vote does tho.
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Last time UK voted on something, it gave most of the europe a near heart attack. Please be mindful ;p
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Vote, Vote, Vote!
I would, but then.... yeah, right Germany. Will do that in autumn then :)
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Would like poll answer, "I am a smart arse, and have a postal vote therefore I voted weeks ago and do not have to go out in the torrential rain and high winds..." - please!!
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I actually tried to edit the post to add this hyper-valid and awesome answer, but it seems you can't add, subtract or edit the poll options :(
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Perhaps we need a referendum to add the possibility....POWER TO THE PEOPLE...or something like that?
Come the revolution........
But thanks for trying!!!
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Oh no, politics on SG! There was no option for "I voted for myself", so I went with the last one.
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Don't agree that not voting means you can't complain. IF there was a "none of the above, they're all wankers and voting for them only encourages them to be even bigger wankers over the next 5 years", then everyone should vote.
However, in a democracy it should also be your right to NOT vote without fear of fine, criminalisation, or ridicule; people fought for your right to vote AND to NOT vote.
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IF there was a "none of the above, they're all wankers and voting for them only encourages them to be even bigger wankers over the next 5 years"
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To still make your vote count you can spoil the ballot paper.
I think that girl is a little confused. Sure, an invalid vote is a sign but it does not count.
Isn't that pretty much the whole point of voting invalid ?
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Well I guess she meant it "counts" in the metaphorical sense that it will have an effect. So it "counts" as a protest vote.
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Funny coincidence: I've just been thinking about this and the more I think about it the less sense it makes to me.
Let me take my country Austria as an example:
Let's assume out of 6 million people permitted to vote, 4 million actually do it and maybe 50k decide to vote white.
I don't know about other countries but as far as I know the percentage of invalid votes does not get released over here, so it obviously does not work as a barometer of political discontent.
And do people who vote white actually think that politicians go over those numbers (if they are even available to them) and say:
"Well, 50k decided to vote invalid (without knowing for what particular reason) so I vow to do better in the future." ?
They don't even know the reasoning behind it so how would that work?
From my perspective it just seems like an extremely snowflakey thing to do (basically complaining about something without providing better alternatives). But maybe I'm missing something so if somebody has a different vantage point on the matter please enlighten me.
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At least in the UK it does get released. And again, the last time 34% of people did not vote. If 34% of the votes had been spoilt ballots instead, you'd bet the reasoning behind it would be pretty clear: People are not satisfied with the system, and something needs to be done about it. When only 1% of the ballots are spoilt however, everyone claims the remaining 34% aren't unsatisfied, they're just lazy and oh by the way they would've voted for us anyway if they could.
High % of spoilt votes makes it impossible to pretend the system works. That's the first step in moving past FPTP which is the biggest obstacle to true democracy that I can think of.
basically complaining about something without providing better alternatives).
Are you saying the average uni student that doesn't like any candidate should, what, start their own political party? That wouldn't even lead anywhere under FPTP anyway.
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Are you saying the average uni student that doesn't like any candidate should, what, start their own political party? That wouldn't even lead anywhere under FPTP anyway.
I'm saying if you don't feel represented by the current political parties in your country you should probably do something about it. Yes.
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Bernie Sanders did. Where'd it lead him exactly? And he had far greater capacity to start it than most people. FPTP is built to prevent change from happening.
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Please let's not take a voting system that hasn't been changed for over 200 years as a positive example.
The American Electoral system is basically a "How not to do it."
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But that's basically how the British system works too. I'm looking now, and apparently Austria uses a different system so that might explain the confusion I guess. But we're talking about the British elections here, where the last time getting 12% of the vote awarded UKIP an amazing 0.2% of the seats.
(Disclaimer: I don't like UKIP. Like, at all. But that doesn't erase the fact that the way they were left without representation is an affront to democracy)
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I'm probably not knowledgable enough on the UK's electoral system to really provide some valueable imput on that matter.
I was expressing my opinion on Voting White the way it works over here. Apparently the situation in the UK is rather different which would obviously also change some of my conclusions.
And yes: As far as I know, above a certain threshold of votes (~ 5%) seats get distributed proportionally over here.
Makes it harder to get anything done but ensures everybody is represented equally.
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Well, you can do this and I would encourage those who really don't feel they have a candidate they can put their name to this time to do so, BUT I would like a genuine count of NOTA at each election as it would show the number of truly disaffected and disenfranchised people who are NOT lazy or feckless, but who TRULY cannot give their vote in good conscience.
tl:dr - you're right but.....
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Well it's sort of a circular situation... People who don't believe in the system won't vote until they add a None of the Above option, and they won't add a None of the Above option until enough people show up and give protests/none of the above votes. I mean I think in the last GE like 1% of ballots were spoilt? That's nothing. Not worth adding an option for. But like 34% of people didn't vote so if those had voted then that would've raised questions.
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Agreed...and there's OBVIOUSLY no political will for this to happen, so you're shouting at the tide to turn on your demand.
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Only an idiot would think abstention it's a bad thing and you "cant complain" for not voting. Only an idiot or an absolutist
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Abstention means you don't care. And if you don't care what choice others will be making for you, then don't complain about it later on.
Spoiling the ballot is the only way to vote "none of the above" and express that you don't believe in any of these people to represent you.
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If you can't be bothered to express your discontent with all the parties by spoiling the ballot, don't try to make me believe that you care about the outcome. You're actively saying "whatever the others decide is fine by me".
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To be honest I don't know where this romanticized version of not voting started, or what country it's popular in. Here every voting and statistics just take it as "you got your time go there but couldn't even bothered to vote on anything you bloody slacker", and is just openly frowned. You have a choice of chooting A, B, C or D, or not to even take part in it - and it's a mockery of democratic rights to pick "fuck you all" by spoiling a ballot. Not to mention the corrupt voting system where the government changed the areas who's votes count as one so they can have better chances in the next voting... iin that case playing their game is accepting their cheating the system.
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Not to mention the corrupt voting system where the government changed the areas who's votes count as one so they can have better chances in the next voting
I think that practice is known as Gerrymandering.
John Oliver did an interesting piece about it recently on Last Week Tonight
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Didn't know the word, but yes, that's what happened
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Here's a short train of tips for peeps voting today. Read carefully ;)
- you don't need to Bring your polling card to vote. If you're in England, Scotland, or Wales, you can just give your name and address (I voted this way this morning, as I was passing the polling station without my card.) Voters in Northern Ireland need their photo ID.
- if you haven't sent in your postal vote, you can seal it and hand it in to the presiding officer at any polling station in your constituency by 10pm
- if you are unable to vote due to a medical Emergency, or are suddenly called away to work, you can apply for an emergency proxy vote up to 5pm. You will need support for your application from a qualified person, eg doctor.
- voting officially ends at 10pm, but if You are already in the queue by 10pm you are still allowed to vote. Don't leave it too late, though!
- polling stations are meant to be accessible, but if you Can't vote for access reasons (eg, the lift broke and you're a wheelchair user, or you are not able to mark your ballot using the equipment provided) ask someone to call for the Presiding Officer. The PO can bring you your ballot if the voting area is inacessible, or mark your ballot for you if you are unable to do so. Polling stations are also required to have large print ballot papers, and tactile voting devices you can place over your ballot.
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very nice train (Although I didn't join it) and happy caky
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What about the option for "No, I won't vote because the government deems that people who are 16 are not old enough to decide on what political nonsense will dictate their future but are considered mature enough for leaving school, or on the flipside, deciding exactly what you want to do in life so you can choose the right subjects"
...in retrospect, that might have been a mouthful.
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You should vote for one of the parties that favours lowering the voti... oh, I see.
Don't worry, did it for you.
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Ty mate.
Maybe the changes will be implemented by the time I'm 18...
Yeah, I'm bad at jokes.
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I will vote when "None of the Above" is a valid option or when there is a party i can fully believe in.
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Spoiling the ballot is the "none of the above" option.
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But it isn't an official vote, it is a wasted ballot.
If 90% of the voters spoil their ballot then the remaining 10% who didn't spoil them have the say.
If 90% of the voters officially voted "None of the Above" then that would send a message that we don't want these people in power and we won't accept the lesser of 2 evils.
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And if 90% of people do not vote, the remaining 10% still have the say.
Is it better to leave the choice to others and say nothing, or to at least express your discontent with the choices offered to you?
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As it stands, spoiling your ballot is the equivalent of not voting at all, except you wasted your time to go to a voting station just to not have a say.
We need the ability to officially express our discontent with the choices, spoiling the ballot isn't recognized as a vote for "None of the Above".
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Yes, they do physically tally them with the rest but they DO NOT officially count as a vote for "None of the Above".
Maybe if all of the ballots were spoiled it would count but for now they do not.
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My entire point through all of this has been that there is no "None of the Above" option.
If you are spoiling your ballot by scribbling on it or writing someone else in or whatever, you are not officially saying "None of the Above", you aren't officially saying anything.
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I actually don't think I have heard anything like that at all.
If we had the option to vote that "I don't feel any of these candidates are qualified to run my country", it says to the politicians that a percentage of voters want someone else and maybe that percentage will always be a small but it gives them the official statement that some people don't want them to lead.
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"the X % who spoiled their ballots WOULD have voted for us"
Why do you even care about demagogic statements that speaks about possibilities you wouldn't take part in anyways?
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Then you will almost certainly never vote. Feels like an odd stance, for once the two main parties are quite a ways apart, it's hard to believe that even if you can't 100% back a side you don't still have a preference.
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TBF Labour avoid the issue for the exact same reason. It won't happen before we find ourselves with a reasonably balanced coalition government. Cross your fingers for tonight :)
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Am in the same boat, if you have a minor party you like and can help retain their deposit your vote can still count. Just not as much as it should.
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This. I think most people do not know how difficult the system makes it for small parties to get a foothold. If you don't get 5% of the vote, you lose £500 deposit. And unless you are a party with a rich benefactor, you need all the money you can get.
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Vote! Vote! Vote!
Please don't vote for the party you think is going to win, just because you've resigned yourself to the fact that they are likely going to win....vote for the party you think will do best for you and yours.
Every vote counts, even if it feels like it doesn't.
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