The rule is "no calling out". You may always make a support ticket, but yelling "lol fake" is still against the rules.
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It's perfectly fine to be against the rules when the rules themselfs are retarded.
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It's not because you fail to see the point of a rule that it is retarded.
And if some people do not want to respect a certain rule, that is fine by me, but then they shouldn't complain when they get suspended. You either comply or you accept to face consequences.
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The SG mods are constantly going over the rules, and we discard/change any that don't have a solid reason for being. The latest example relates to region-restricted gifts. Once we worked out a system to allow them, the prohibition against them was done away with.
TL; DR: There is a valid reason for every one of SG's rules.
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And similarly, it's perfectly fine for you to be suspended for that.
You're free to ignore retarded rules, but you're not free from consequence.
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Long time ago one of the I-think-support guys had links to giveaways that looked fake (and maybe even were called fake) and turned out to be genuine.
So, you never know if that Black Ops 3 giveaway is fake, or somebody just got bored spending money on hookers and decided to make a giveaway instead.
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That was Bobofat who put up that post. It was a good read, actually, but I dunno if I can find it, again.
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Google finds http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/2m4l3/this-is-exactly-why-we-dont-call-out-fake-on-giveaways pretty fast, but that one lists a single GA only. Should there be a better one?
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isn't that calling out the people who were calling out? and isn't what you're doing calling out bobo calling out the people who were calling out? and isn't this calling out you while you were calling out bobo calling out the people who were calling out? callingoutception! :O
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Ah crap, you just called out their calling out of the calling out of the calling outers!
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I am not saying you did anything wrong, but you should not be pointing the finger at him.
Crap, can't really call you out on this without calling you out.
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It was something bigger. I think there was dozen of them, aincluding pre-order Call of Duties.
But this link is nice too, since it have this comment that explains why calling fake is bad.
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I believe there was another one with several examples in it, but the one you cited is probably the clearest and best of the bunch.
Here is a fixed version of that link.
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(Apparently they were in the same discussion, Rebbur posted the comment-link below)
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Well i remember getting banned cause i told some guy that calling out is against the rules.
And then i added alltho i do agree with you , and that was calling out :c
Bam 2 days ban :)
Anyway if its against the rules , not really right to complain.
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Fake GA's are like an IQ test. More people/scripters wating their point in fake GA's means less competition for you in real ones.
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I have fallen victim to a fake giveaway which i won, never got the game :(
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3+ years ago on my first giveaway for a (then) $15 game, one of the users posted there "Hope it's not a fake..." So people have been suspecting fake giveaways for years. It's not for nothing that support doesn't allow posting publicly about this.
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I've had someone arguing with me, on the giveaway page, that my giveaway was fake.
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Everyone knows your giveaways are all fake, but you're not getting flagged for them because you're sleeping with Support.
By the way, it crossed my mind that I should be posting some more (fake) giveaways.
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Edit: I over-thought about this topic. Just ignore my posts. It has nothing to do with the thread.
Edit 2: It seems like the only thing i got out of this discussion is a blacklist for having a different opinion. This is the last time i'll ever join any controversial debate on this forum. It just isn't worth it. You guys should be careful too.
I think that obviously there is a problem if new people are making fake giveaways and other people have to call them out. If new people aren't making fake giveaways, then no one will call them out. So the real problem is that the new people aren't reading the FAQ. We should be focusing on helping the new people understand the FAQ, instead of banning everyone trying to help the new people. If SG step up their game, then they wouldn't have to punish the people doing their job for them. I suggest making every new member take a quiz after making them read the FAQ. Another suggestion would be creating a visual guide explaining how the site works for the people that don't understand English. Other suggestions or improvements are welcomed.
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instead of banning everyone trying to help the new people
Yelling FAKE! in a giveaway is not helping the new people.
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I disagree. I think it actually helps them notice that they made a fake giveaway and that the site doesn't work that way. If that person is innocent, then they can simply reply to the comment and there will no problems. If you think that the new member will get upset over a "mean" comment on the internet, you must be new on the internet. .
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There's been a number of cases when users were offended by comments on their first giveaway and left the site. There is a difference between welcoming a new member to the site and directing his attention to Guidelines and FAQ, and posting "lol fake".
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I never suggested to post "lol fake". Why aren't we directing his attention to Guidelines and FAQ before they make a fake giveaway? Both my suggestions are directing his attention to Guidelines and FAQ. It's almost like you didn't read my first post.
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This whole thread is about the "lol fake" type of comments, because OP was suspended for one of those. You implied he was "trying to help the new people". This prompted my response.
I read your suggestions. Stuff like this has been suggested before - FAQ quiz, giveaway cooldowns, red flashing warning messages, multiple confirmation pop-ups. Since the site admin hasn't implemented any of this yet, he probably does not think they will help get rid of fake giveaways. Until he decides a change is necessary, the current "no calling out" rules remain in place and will be upheld by the site staff.
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Thanks for explaining your thought process. Seems like we're on the same page now. I don't think that OP did the right thing, but i understand why he did it. I never mentioned OP in my post so i don't understand why you thought i made that implication. I was beginning to think that you accidentally replied to my first post.
I know that all my ideas have been suggested before. I just always wondered why admin didn't do anything about it yet. I just think that a change is necessary cuz threads like this one keep popping up. I understand that admin probably is busy with stuff idk about (like SG 3.0 lol.) Your reply gave me the answers i was looking for so i won't push this issue any further. Keep up the good work at SG!
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If new people aren't making fake giveaways, then no one will call them out
Actually yes, some people will still call them out because they will think it's fake. That's why there is this rule.
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Actually no, because if most new people aren't making fake giveaways, then most people won't waste their time writing "fake" due to the rarity of fake giveaways. We only pay special attention to giveaways made by new members, because a good chunk of those giveaways are fake. Idk about you, but I definitely wouldn't care about this thread if there were hardly any fake giveaways.
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And what about people who have friends-only steam profile, just came to site, read FAQ, understand what's it about and decide to giveaway Call of Duty Black Ops 3?
How will you know that giveaway is not fake?
Like it or not, this stuff happens. Once in ten, once in hundred, but it happens. And you telling said person "moron can't read faq" doesn't make said person feel welcome.
Read this comment that happened in one of those "seems fake" giveaways: http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/F1ALs/assassins-creed-2-deluxe-edition#AeWArCV
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What about people that giveaway Call of Duty Black Ops 3? Why can't they just respond a "fake" comment and solve the problem?
As of now, there is no way i know that the giveaway is not fake. However if we implement one of my suggested ideas, then i'll know.
I understand that accidents happen, but maybe if it happens all the time, then it might not be just their fault. Maybe we can do something to help them out. I'll be honest, i don't really care if someone feels welcome or not. They must be new on the internet if they get upset that easily here.
I've also read many of those stories about the innocent new guy, but we both know that they make way more fake giveaways than real ones. I can easily point out several times as much fake giveaways than real giveaways, so posting a few links as proof isn't nearly enough.
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Its very simple. Don't be a dick. Claiming Fake in a users first giveaway doesn't help anyone. Don't try to claim it does.
Like you mother hopefully told you as a child, if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.
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I don't think its that simple. Think about it. Did making this "no calling out" rule do anything to reduce the amount of fake giveaways? We didn't solve the real issue here. I heard that SG is understaffed and needs to do a lot of work. If we solve this problem, we could be spending less time finding and banning people and spend that time on other things (like the -rep complaints on ST.) Also, stating "Don't try to claim it does," doesn't convince me at all. Please explain how i was being a dick in my original post (i never suggested everyone to call out new members.)
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i never suggested everyone to call out new members
Actually, you kind of did:
new people are making fake giveaways and other people have to call them out
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"I think that obviously there is a problem if new people are making fake giveaways and other people have to call them out." Please don't take my words out of text. The text behind the "if" is the proposed situation, not my opinion. "I think that obviously there is a problem" is my opinion and is in fact, the opposite of "suggesting everyone to call out new members." I'm saying that this is a problem, not that i'm supporting it.
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Well, what I'm implying is that nobody has to call anyone out, no matter what the proposed situation is.
If you feel that the giveaway creator won't deliver the game, simply don't enter and move along. Fake giveaways will always be there, no matter what barriers you might erect to try and prevent them from happening.
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That is what i've been doing all this time, but that is just avoiding the problem. I believed that barriers can be erected to try and prevent them from happening. I suppose that is where we differ. I feel hopeless now that i spent my time hoping that this problem will be solved one day. If the SG staff doesn't believe in improvement, nothing will change. New members will continue to make fake giveaways and people will continue to find different ways to imply that the giveaway is fake. You will continue to waste time finding and banning people everyday.
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You make it sound as if fake giveaways are a huge problem. Last time we checked, I believe the not delivered giveaways comprised less than 1% of the total amount of giveaways on the site - and this included not only fake giveaways, but misuse of feedback as well.
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I'm sorry. I really thought that fake giveaways are a huge problem. Ofc, i never looked at any statistics. From my personal experience, i've seen several thread like this one (regarding fake giveaways) and the complaints of other people. I've never encountered this problem before, but i just wanted to give my two cents on this topic. If it isn't a problem i just wasted my time thinking i could do some brainstorming with other people. Sorry for taking up your time also.
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"Don't be a dick" is how I feel about people pulling "FAKE!". They are not helping anyone. Don't claim they are.
I've won a giveaway for a Saints Row IV pre order where people were claiming fake, just because new user and highly wanted item. That guy actually gave me the game (or at least tried to, but he wasn't aware of region locking as the site didn't mention it during the pre order period). He never returned to the site after that giveaway. Why should he when a bunch of people showed that they don't deserve the chance?
The occasional fake might suck. But want to know something? You lose nothing. It doesn't make your life worse if you win one, you come away with as much as you had when you entered. It doesn't effect your chances to win future giveaways. There is no reason for calling out. If some jerks want to break the rules, they deserve the suspension.
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Why are you directing all this towards me? I've never won a fake giveaway and I've also won a giveaway where people were claiming fake. I've never called anyone out either. My reasoning is that everyone have been called mean things on the internet, but we all still use it. There are nice and mean people everywhere, even on SG. The people that get depressed by mean words are gonna have a tough time on the internet if they keep looking at the negative stuff. Just man up.
I know that i lose nothing, but the busy SG staff is losing their precious time on finding and banning people that break the rules when they could be working on other things. My original point was actually beneficial towards the SG staff, but it seems like you all hate it.
Btw i'm still claiming that there might be some pros about "people calling certain giveaways fake." I think that you're overreacting to something that is debatable. I would ban a handful of other mean words before i ban the word "fake." I simply don't think its as bad as you think it is.
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You want to know why I'm directing comments towards you?
We should be focusing on helping the new people understand the FAQ, instead of banning everyone trying to help the new people.
There are no positives. All it does is drive off the good people who are generous.
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I still don't understand why you're directing comments towards me. Call me stupid, but im really not trolling. I see nothing wrong in the statement you quoted from.
I don't think that calling "fake" is all that bad. There are plenty of more insults on the internet. I don't believe that most people get driven off by some "fake" comments when there are also some "thnx" comments on their giveaway. JUST MAN UP. The positive thing about the "fake" comments is that if the giveaway is really fake (which is a good number,) the creator might realize that he made a mistake and learn from it. All you mention is the good, generous people. You're forgetting the real problem; real fake giveaways.
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easy solution, disable all comments by default, have giveaway hosts have the option to enable it. sure it erases the genuine thank you posts, but also blocks out the annoying default copy pasted "thanks" in all variations and languages, and blocks people from being rude and/or calling out.
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i agree that is an option, but i still don't think its a permanent solution to real fake giveaways. your idea is only for the innocent real giveaway creators.
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the positive thing about the "fake" comments is that if the giveaway is really fake (which is a good number,) the creator might realize that he made a mistake and learn from it.
They will realise this after the giveaway ends, when they get a non-received feedback.
If they realise it with the "fake" comments, they will delete it and lose a giveaway slot.
If they don't, they will still lose a slot after the non-received feedback.
The outcome is the same except that some guy will be disappointed because he will think he has won something, but that is not worth driving off generous newcomers.
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Thnx for explaining in detail. I agree with everything, but i have some other thoughts. My main idea is to think of a way to decrease fake giveaways. I understand that "fake" comments isn't near the best solution to this problem, because we still see threads like this one. I think that by solving this problem, we can improve the outcome.
Edit: Problem isn't a big problem so just ignore my posts.
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Well gee, if the reasons already pointed out by me and others, such as those idiots having been wrong in the past and driven off generous users like mentioned in my own post, then there is little point in arguing, since I can't bring a sledge hammer to break down the rock blocking you from accepting why bad manners is bad manners.
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I think i've given all the reasons pointed out by other people a fair chance and gave an appropriate reply to all of them. I understand why bad manners is bad manners, but i think bad manners isn't the real problem (reasons listed in my first post.) I just think we look at the severity of bad manners differently, thats all. I think that more new members will leave if people call them dicks instead of fake, but i don't think if the word dicks is banned. I can also say that i'm here taking part in a fair discussion, but someone came along and tried to argue with me irrationally unlike the other people. I can call this bad manners and just leave and never come back. I think i am overreacting if i was in that situation. I also agree that there is no point in arguing anymore because apparently fake giveaways aren't a big issue and the admin don't plan on making any changes soon. I just wasted all my time for nothing.
P.S. Thnx for spending your time and interacting with the community discussions!
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If a giveaway looks sketchy to me, I don't join it, simple as that. Over 50% of the people who will enter just use an auto enter thing anyways, so what's the point, if you're so worried about yourself being banned, why bother with other people?
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The guy who calls it out gets suspended while the perpetrator probably gets a warning, because logic.
Many of you argue that points are free anyway. It's irrelevant if points are easy to obtain or not. You know what's not easy? Winning a giveaway with +1000 entries, only to find out that it's fake:
"Oh well, no sweat, I'm sure the Universe will screw statistics by correcting things and I'll win another giveaway as a consolation price probably in a couple of days, not months (not!). It's allright... points are free anyway."
Childish rule.
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That win doesn't change your chances in any other giveaway. So boo ****ing hoo.
I've won a 'fake' giveaway for Saints Row IV pre order (was my luckiest win, a giveaway with 4010 entries). Was real. Unfortunately region locked, but the gifter did try.
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Basically, what you're saying is that it doesn't matter if I'll win a giveaway or two or ten that turn out to be fake, because those wins won't influence my chances in any other giveaway.
Assuming that I'm joining only giveaways with 1000 entries, I have a 0.1% chance to win one. Given an enough number of tries, globally I'm expecting to win 1 giveaway per 1000 tries. So if two guys will join 10000 giveaways with 0.1% chances to win, statistically each of them will win 10 giveaways. So... both of them will feel equally satisfied if one actually gets 10 games and the other one gets 8 games, two being fakes?
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Your statistics would make sense if fake giveaways were encountered as often as legit giveaways. But that's not the case. Fake giveaways comprise less than 1% of the total amount of giveaways on the site.
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The whole fake giveaway issue (and consequently the calling out one) would be 99% solved by introducing a rule when the first giveaway from a user has to be for a bundle game.
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i'm not sure if that would be a solution. if they didn't understand how this site works, they would create a fake giveaway for a bundled game instead. which is better but not really a solution. for a better one, maybe cg should ban this url. i'm pretty sure the whole fake giveaways and calling out mess would simply vanish.
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That is how they should have solved the slow down ages ago. It is the primary cause of site problems.
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I am aware it wouldn't be a failproof, scientifically sound solution, but... how many fake giveaways, calling out and general drama do you see involving bundle games? I think it would downsize the issue to irrelevance.
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His point was (I think) that adding restrictions when creating giveaways is not the way to go.
Especially since fake giveaways are not really a big deal. They are not that many of them, they are not causing any real damage, and the issue is self-resolved by the fact that the creator will lose a giveaway slot, so anyone who keeps creating fake ones will not be able to create more than 3 of them.
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I can only agree, it's not such a big deal. It's just an annoyance, made worse - for me at least - by the fact that people are punished for warning about what is often an obvious fact.
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But if it is obvious, it shouldn't be necessary to warn people...it's not like people who do not check the GA creator will check the comments anyway. And a giveaway could look fake and in the end turn out to be legit, so it's better to keep your thoughts to yourself and simply move along if you think it is fake.
Here is an example of why such a rule exists.
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All right. I spoke my opinion, I understand the objections, still think it would help, time to move on. :)
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looks like you guys already settled it but i'd like to throw my two cents anyway. cover your head.
the point i disagree about your suggestion is, it really is not a solution to the problem. it would just turn it into something else, but still something similar. if people think you earn the game when you create a giveaway for it, they'll keep doing it. instead of non-bundled games, they'll go with the best bundled game they can find. we should think for a way to make people read the rules and understand what this site is all about. maybe faq pop-up when you're creating your first giveaway. maybe asking help for more translations of the faq. maybe making faq button a bigass red button that noone resists to click. but not what you're suggesting. it might discourage people to create their first giveaway. nobody likes to be treated like a liar and dishonest. besides that, maybe they're not a bundle junky and don't have any bundle leftovers.
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Well, I can still add that I know my suggestion is not a solution, I also stated it. But I think it's a free (as in zero cost) harm reduction measure. I would also consider the possibility of requiring a bundle game that's already in the user's library. It would discourage people who think a giveaway gives THEM a chance to a free game, but it would also potentially discourage new users who prefer to give away games they don't care about, instead of adding them to their library anyway like I do. ;) In any case, the measure would only apply to the very first giveaway of a new user, so I think it would be acceptable. The kind of person who immediately understands the site and actually wants to give away a game for free is probably the kind of person who also understands why such restrictions exist.
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i don't know if the problem is with me, it was a bit stressful day and i can't really focus on what i read, or if you worded it poorly but i couldn't understand maybe half of the stuff you said in this comment. anyway, if you want it that bad, so be it. it doesn't effect me anyway. but you might upset fake giveaway hunters.
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Ok, TLDR:
- harm reduction
- little to no harm done
- even better if the newbie's first GA has to be for a bundle game he already owns
I don't want it that bad, I just like to share my opinion every now and then and it was a slow day at work. :)
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As a leech who has never made a giveaway, there is a huge pop up with the basic facts and a link to the FAQ. That doesn't stop people who don't know what they are doing though.
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I can;t believe we still have something to debate here about call "fake giveaway" it a clear cut situation where no one is lost , if you see a seem fake ga, and STILL enter, . don't complain, , and the reason why that rule available is nothing to be debate ? Common sense people.... common sense
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To OP: The rule is fair, you can't prove that the giveaway is fake unless it ended. If the GA creator didn't deliver then he loses a GA slot and a negative feedback. Let's compare it to real world example: You saw a person walking down the street and you THINK he's a thief even though you have no solid evidence that he is. Then you shouted "Everyone! This person is a thief! Avoid him like a plague!". By doing so, you might face a lawsuit for slander or oral defamation. BTW, just report the GA so you don't have to resort to calling out..
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Just because a giveaway is "fake" doesn't mean the creator has any malicious intent. In fact I'm willing to bet more than 50% of the time it's probably the creator misunderstanding something. You said this yourself.
On the other hand, calling someone out can destroy someone's reputation on this site simply because they made a mistake.
Consider some "correct" logic before making an argument next time.
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had a guy ask me to reroll after he won due to winning same game earlier do i submit ticket i did send him key earlier so nt sure wtf to do
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Guys just let it go, the rule won't change. No one can be 100% sure a giveaway is fake, and, like we've seen many times, just because someone is new here does not mean they don't read the rules/understand how the site works and make fake giveaways. I'v seen plenty of giveaways that turned out to be "legit" being called fake in the comments by people just because the person who made them had been a member for only a couple of days or didn't own the game he was giving away. How do you think that creator of a giveaway feels after seeing such "reactions" to his generosity?
No one here should try to take it upon themselves to police giveaways and decide what is fake and what is not. People can decide for themselves if they want to "risk" their oh so precious points on a giveaway or not. At most you're just discouraging new people from creating (public) giveaways.
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Some giveaways are obviously fake because the creator didn't read the FAQ or don't understand english.
Calling them out so people can save their points
Gets ban for 2days
admin, good Logic
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