Ill leave the source just in case you win/buy from other sites

TotalBiscuit: PSA: Don't buy keys from discount sites unless you want to run the risk of getting ripped off and ripping off an indie dev in the process

11 years ago*

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Bummer for the people that bought those keys.

11 years ago
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It is more of a bummer for Unknown Worlds, "In fact, we were charged a fee by the card issuer for the charge-back. For these 1,341 keys, these fees totalled around $30,000."

That sucks.

11 years ago
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Sucks for both parties.

11 years ago
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Yeah...

11 years ago
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Kind of serves them right for buying keys that "fell off a truck" somewhere because they're cheap. Something's not right when a site, especially a relatively unknown site, offers new games at ridiculously low prices.

11 years ago
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"too good to be true... etc etc"

11 years ago
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They should just do chargeback.

11 years ago
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On a related note. Bought the game yeseterday off Steam, wanted to play it for awhile but was caught up in other games, and HOLY CRAP it is so much fun. Just got done playing a 3 hour session, must eat and go back for more! Love the interaction with your commander and how everybody is on the mic communicating and coordinating. Very very fun stuff.

11 years ago
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I've been on the fence about purchasing it (in part because of my backlog), but definitely will pick it up next time it is on a Steam sale. I would like to support the developers now in some small way.

11 years ago
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It's a definite win win. Everybody is really understanding of new players and try their best to help them learn because it benefits them as well since teamwork is essential to win the game. It's a great feeling to go with your team and hold your ground taking the enemies base(s) while your commander is at the chair giving you support. Really makes you feel like you're really contributing to the bigger picture.

11 years ago
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That's very cool, and great to hear. Sounds like a really good community (a bit of a rarity these days).

11 years ago
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And then they revoke the "stolen" keys so that the players get hurt, not the sellers committing the crime. This will only be bad word of mouth for them, sadly.

11 years ago
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They revoked the keys because they didn't get paid for them. Why should the players get angry at them and not the third party seller?

11 years ago
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Consumers are dumb that is why.

11 years ago
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have a +1 for that comment, everyone just screws the consumer not giving a crap if they did anything wrong.

11 years ago
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The consumer screwed his or her self by buying from a bad source.

11 years ago
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The consumer is one of the 3 parties of 4 that did not get screwed. Please see my post further down the page.

  • Hugh, UWE (The developers of NS2)
11 years ago
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Ah, sorry to you fellas then.

11 years ago
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But how can they know that it is bad? There is no way unless you try them and get burnt.

11 years ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 4 years ago.

11 years ago
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How often do you buys from a developers site? Almost never. Amazon is a reseller too. Yes, I understand what you are getting at, but when you spend so little on a game, why not try a new reseller and if it works, yay, if it doesnt, oh well. I do this often enough online when shopping for digital goods, sometimes even physical stuff I get shipped.

11 years ago
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As far as I am concerned people that buy from sites that offer these "too good to be true" deals on games are complicit in the crime. This kind of crime would not exist if there was not a market for it, and anyone with half a brain should realize that something at least a little bit shady is going on on these sorts of websites.

This is like buying a plasma tv out of the back of some guy's van in a parking lot for $50 and being surprised when the police come and seize it.

11 years ago
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Where is this van?

11 years ago
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Someone who commented on their post brought up a good point stating that it teaches the consumer to be more careful when buying keys.

It will make them think twice about buying that new game for $10 from that shady website.

11 years ago
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It also acts as a (tiny) deterrent for others who would think of doing this. If people thought it was ONLY the company getting hurt and that players would keep their keys, they would probably be more likely to do something like this.

11 years ago
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Sorry, but consumers are too dumb to do that.

11 years ago
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It's not anyone else's fault but their own that they're dumb and continue to be dumb. In fact, there is no impetus for change if they do not feel any pain or see any promise of reward. Continuing to coddle them will only keep them in their dumb state.

11 years ago
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Welcome to the world, how it is and why it will never change. Dumb people are the majority, so they hold the power so everyone ends up catering to their will to get power over them.

11 years ago
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I have long realized that is how the world is, but I do not believe that is how the world must always be.

At the very least we intelligent few should be able to trick them all into a massive trap for their slaughter. However, the problem is there are those that favour having power because of their ability to make appeals to the dumb, rather than having any genuine merit themselves or in their arguments.

11 years ago
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Hi MattyMatt - My name is Hugh, and I work at Unknown Worlds (The developer of Natural Selection 2). You can verify my identity via my Steam profile, twitter.com/hugh_jeremy, etc. There are four parties to these fraudulent transactions:

  1. Those that stole the keys
  2. Those who had their credit cards uses fraudulently to buy said keys
  3. Those who gave their money to (1) thinking they were getting legitimate keys
  4. Unknown Worlds (The developer)

At the end of this whole thing, (1) has the money (3) gave them, (2) has their money back from their card issuer, (3) has their money back via their card issuer, and (4) has paid a huge fee for charge-backs.

We went public with this information to warn people that if they buy keys on shady sites, they risk their credit card information and having to claw their money back after the fraudulent key is deactivated.

It is very disheartening and sad to see that some consider us (Unknown Worlds) to be the bad guy in this situation. We thought we were doing the right thing, and are the only one of the 4 parties to take a financial hit. We are all gamers, and don't want fellow gamers to have to go through a card-issuer refund process when all they wanted to do was play our game.

Cheers

Hugh

11 years ago
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well one of you developers gave me Natural Selection II for free around Christmas last year so thanx for that

ps: keep making awesome games :) a friend of mine just recently bought the game of steam and plays NS2 everday now :P

11 years ago
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Oh, I do not consider you the bad guy at all, I just think that it wasnt the smartest way to play the game as party number 3 may not necessarily be able to reverse the charge. If it was via paypal, the time window may have expired (on top of that paypal is no much more seller than buyer friendly) and some cc companies will not reverse charges without proof of fraudulent activity or charge a very dumb fee (these two being the reason I switched my CC). In the end, they are bitter, word spreads, etc.

I dont even expect these people to get a free game, but maybe you could have reached out to the affected and maybe offered them a deal to at least try and cover the chargeback? You do not often get a "rebuy" button on steam, so it would be easy enough for them to prove (or via transaction history).

I have dealt with fraud myself and it is never fun, that much I can say. The day they told us that our pin pads could be manipulated to manual entry with a faulty chip card was not a good day.

P.S.: Good games.

11 years ago
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Still, it's the only way to not let the criminal party out of this scot free. Atleast this way there might be some fees for them too...

11 years ago
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This sucks. Sad to see the devs getting shafted here.

Have a degree of sympathy for some of the buyers but if a deal seems too good to be legit (particularly when we're talking about shady key resellers, NOT Amazon, Steam, GMG) then chances are it probably is.

It's a game I've had my eye on for a while, but money's a bit tight, and I'd rather wait for a sale and buy it from a company with some credibility rather than roll the dice with a no-mark website wheeling and dealing in some shadowy recess of the internet.

11 years ago
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Your post is like magic. It keeps getting larger as I refresh.

11 years ago
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I am easily the worst editor of posts on Steamgifts, and probably the most cack-handed typist too...

:D

Prizes may or may not be available for finding one of my posts without an asterisk beside it...

11 years ago
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Nothing wrong with editing messages though, hahaha

11 years ago
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Wonder what was the site and how much were they charging for the keys...

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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Very sad Story. Especially cause only the devs got hurt. I never purchased anything from any of the countless shady key-resellers out there.

11 years ago
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thanks for the heads up guy

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by YaoJensen.