Here's a more detailed article:
https://www.essentiallysports.com/esports-news-csgo-star-player-elias-jamppi-olkkonen-takes-legal-action-against-valve/
The matter is about as senseless and not worth anyone's time as you'd expect just from the thread title alone.
Comment has been collapsed.
It seems to be very much worth the lawyers' time since they are of course going to court of appeal with it.
Comment has been collapsed.
All this because a cheater kid never figured out to just get another Steam account and rebuy CS:GO for 5 bucks like regular people or a pro team couldn't check out Steam profile before signing a contract.
Some no-name cheaters would be able to do it. But no one would allow "pro" games to make 2nd account to play in a tournament.
In any case it's just waste of court time, and kid's money.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's assuming you're silly enough to use your real information instead of anonymous wallet codes for the cheating account(s). I guess that's the norm for 14yo kids tho.
Comment has been collapsed.
On the tournaments you need to go there in person. You may fake your information, but you can't really fake your face.
Comment has been collapsed.
but you can't really fake your face.
Clearly you have never heard of Photoshop. ~.^
As for going there in person.. well, Corona has got you covered:
Comment has been collapsed.
Fake info -> cheat. Real info -> don't cheat -> go pro -> win majors.
Nobody sees your face when you cheat on the fake accounts do they?
Comment has been collapsed.
Technically, any kind of account creation for a minor would fall under the purview of their parents, at least in the US. [Strictly speaking, minors can freely void any ongoing contracts at any time by ceasing use of a service, so long as they're still a minor at the time of voiding. Since the individual is now 18, this allowance may actually no longer apply for this particular case.]
As such there may be some difficulties for Valve making a legal case on that point [ie, the existance of a previous account] though, even if that is the case, they could presumably still rather easily make it off of "right to refuse service" [ie, based on dissatisfaction with that particular individual or their past behaviors, regardless of which account those behaviors occurred on].
In any case, I just love the impression the court claim is providing, that CS:GO is a obligatory public service and thus obligated to not only provide service, but to provide damages when service isn't provided, even when reasonable circumstances exist to have cut that service. Like.. anyone thinking like that probably deserves to remain indefinitely/permanently banned, let's be honest. (Nevermind the oddity of mindset that would see someone filing that in a nation where damages require a criminal association to the damages, which is clearly not present.)
It's entirely different to something like the Blizzchung matter, where Blizzard had obligations with both parties beforehand and was acting out of political [ie, prejudicial] sentiment. There, someone could have pushed legal concerns (again, in the US; Part of the issue of course was that the event and individuals weren't based in the US). Here there wasn't any obligation, the circumstances were well known beforehand and automated in application, no innocent bystanders were involved, and there wasn't any outside influence.
Put another way, it's the difference between insisting that your parents give the cookies they promised you and telling them to stop beating you just because your wealthy neighbor indicates they should do so, and with demanding to be let into a neighbor's house for cookies they never promised you to begin with- after you egged their house in the past, no less- and insisting it's all their fault and they should be the one paying you to eat their cookies. Clearly, the approach here seems pretty absurd, unless there's some underlying element the articles aren't mentioning.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's a normal VAC ban before he went pro in CSGO, so probably just in a normal competitive match.
Comment has been collapsed.
Things get even weirder. Another source states that "according to the district courts decision, both sides agree that Olkkonen has bought, sold and handed off the VAC banned account in question to a 3rd party on the same evening it was created. Based on the decision, Olkkonen has not cheated with the account."
So Valve admits the pro did not cheat, so that can't be the reason to exclude him from majors. But by selling his account he broke the ToS, which perhaps could be the actual reason to exclude him?
Comment has been collapsed.
But if the laws for minors are the same as over in the States, then (as a minor) he was no longer bound by the ToS at the point where he ceased contractual arrangement with Valve, which would be at the point where he sold the account. :taps chin:
So while Valve should still have right to exclude based on right of refusal of service, that'd likely be about the only justification (though, with the EU often being more consumer-oriented on laws, there may be additional ones I'm unware of in play here, that just haven't been mentioned yet).
But even if they can come up with a justification for making the case, nothing really explains why they feel they have justification for trying to get damages off of Steam for it.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's how my statement was phrased, with the indication that I was skeptical the player had any accountable damages received, nevermind any that Valve/Steam would be liable for.
Comment has been collapsed.
But being a minor, he can't legally enter into a binding contract, that includes the one necessary to participate in pro play.
I'm sure there are ones that allow them with the parents or legal guardian signing, but I'm not a lawyer and am not going to get into any arguments over it.
Kid done screwed up one way or a half dozen others and has had his digital ass handed to him for something he did.
When you're going for money, you don't screw with the golden goose.
Comment has been collapsed.
time for le lawyer to clarify:
as a minor he can legally enter into binding contracts, however, such contracts are usually voidable, which is why most people think he can't enter into a binding contract. the nuances are beyond the scope of a quick post, but, an easy example is that if a minor enters into a year-long subscription that bills monthly, the minor can cancel the subscription early
Thing is, Valve can ban him for any reason.
Comment has been collapsed.
Voiding the contract for your Steam account and getting banned do sound surprisingly similar tho. "You can't fire me because I quit!"
Comment has been collapsed.
He continued using Steam after he was 18, could mean he's bound by contract.
If he had ceased using steam and requested all accounts deleted before he was 18? definitely could've avoided contract that way (and never having steam account again).
But as you said, Valve probably has still right to choose who can play in their tournaments. (If Valve had pressured third party tournaments to ban him too, that could've been big case). But like court said, Consumer law doesn't apply since he's professional player, so I wouldn't expect relief from there.
Comment has been collapsed.
Funny how they say "bought". But that's like the first excuse kids caught cheating use, it wasn't me it was a friend.
Cheating -> VAC ban
Breaking ToS -> Account ban, which is worse.
Comment has been collapsed.
But that's like the first excuse kids caught cheating use, it wasn't me it was a friend.
Hey, now- adults are also pretty adept at claiming it wasn't them. :P
Comment has been collapsed.
"Bought" here seems to be mistranslated from "created". At least if you follow Jamppi's explanation. What he claims that happened was: He was at a LAN, wanted to play with a friend who couldn't buy CS himself (incompatible payment options perhaps?), created an account for him, bought CS on it and then sold it to his friend, who then later got VAC banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
He had the LAN at his home, the friend was another 14yo with no payment options at all so he used his parents credit card with permission to buy the game for the account he then sold to the friend. But selling accounts is a bigger issue than cheating, it will get all your Steam accounts banned or do I remember wrong?
Comment has been collapsed.
But selling accounts is a bigger issue than cheating, it will get all your Steam accounts banned or do I remember wrong?
I don't know for sure how Valve handles account sellers to be honest. I don't know of anyone who sold their account, let alone got caught. I assume you lose access to the account you tried to sell, but I doubt they would straight-out suspend that person altogether because Valve loves to make money? 🤷♂️ (Just like if you get banned in CS:GO, they won't stop you from buying CS:GO again on a new profile.)
But if you meant banning that person for life for playing in the major, I guess they could do that because it's their money, their event 😝
Comment has been collapsed.
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5406-WFZC-5519
There is a Zero-Tolerance policy for any violations of the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Online Code of Conduct. All accounts in a user's possession for any of the following activities will be suspended:
Hijacking or Sharing Accounts
Do not use Steam accounts which you did not create.
Buying, Selling, or Trading Accounts
Accounts which have been bought, sold or traded will be suspended.
Violating Steam's Subscriber Agreement or Rules of Online Conduct
Please see the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Online Code of Conduct if you have any questions about the policies which govern Steam account use and account termination.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just asking to myself:
Are those "Zero-Tolerance policies" even legit ?
I mean, when a car driver goes a little too fast, they don't occur a lifetime ban from driving, do they?
Comment has been collapsed.
Those are even not the worst parts
Piracy or Hacking
This includes using an unauthorized ("hacked") Steam client to access Steam, attempting to register fake CD Keys or attempting to >register a CD Key which has been published on the internet.
So if you try out a key from some dump thread here for example, you have already tried to hack/pirate the game and can get banned for it. :D
Comment has been collapsed.
"published on the internet".... since I can't access my keys bought on online stores without internet this probably means they plan to ban all people that ever registered one single key from any concurrent store :/
Comment has been collapsed.
Those aren't published as in made public tho, they are private between you and the store at least hopefully.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, but it's not written "publicly published", you're adding an adjective :]
Comment has been collapsed.
Well it's kind of included in the word. The real threat we should be worrying about is that if the store doesn't have a redeem link and you manually copy the key missing 1 character it becomes hacking with a fake key.
Comment has been collapsed.
hacking requires intent. accidentally missing a character is an innocent mistake.
Hence why Valve doesn't automatically ban you if you make too many mistakes entering keys
Comment has been collapsed.
I got suspended from steam for mentionning on someone's profile that "they won a gift", just a few minutes after doing it. They don't joke at all. Hopefully I got unbanned, but still, I've heard some on this site didn't so I guess I just got lucky here ?
I don't know to what extent they consider "hacking". Like, technically I don't think they can guess if you bought some key from a shop on the internet or from a dump somewhere. Probably with the number of attempted tries to redeem a game that was already redeemed ?
Comment has been collapsed.
I would think about that matter the other way:
They don't want to hire enough people to do the right things (which needs to investigate on each situation), so they state a "Zero-Tolerance policy" to lower the amount of work needed from their moderators & technical support technicians.
Then, they let people like you (and many others) try to think and understand the reasoning behind their policies... but you're puzzled, that's not a reasoning in the meaning you have in mind!
In the end, there's something right when you talk about being lucky, because it relies on meeting the right person and successfully explaining your situation...
Comment has been collapsed.
All in the name of making an extra buck, Im sure...
Comment has been collapsed.
That's literally the only purpose corporations have, making extra bucks for shareholders.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, that's still exactly how corporations work until people vote with their wallets and stop funding them. Or if they do something illegal and get caught. I hear a lot of crying about Steam but for every disappointed idealist leaving they get 1000 new people coming in so it's kind of pointless for other reasons than personal.
Comment has been collapsed.
What happens to the decade-old excuse, "it wasn't me. It was my brother?"
Comment has been collapsed.
Not really court decision, but considered irrelevant by Valve, as in "even if he did sell account, we still are right to ban him".
(Valve's defense being that Valve Germany established in 2016 isn't responsible for Valve US in 2015)
Comment has been collapsed.
The district court already agreed with that defense. Isn't selling accounts a much bigger offense than just cheating and would result in all your Steam accounts getting banned?
Comment has been collapsed.
As long as the reason they ban him from participating isn't discriminatory there isn't much he can do... They have freedom of association and that means they can exclude people for reasons like breaking TOS, game-fixing or cheating noticed outside VAC.
Comment has been collapsed.
Already a follower of his. Sad news for a CSGO talent.
Wonder how Valve got a hand into this since the ban was even before he went pro in CSGO
Comment has been collapsed.
Or how he lied about being able to play so that he could cheat a pro contract to begin with. After losing the OG contract he obviously knew fully well but tried desperately to fool some pro team to pay for lawyer fees to lift the ban. That's what I'm wondering about.
Comment has been collapsed.
He doesn't seem to lie from my end. He hasn't got a ban since he went pro.
Comment has been collapsed.
OG found out about the VAC ban and that he isn't allowed to play in the majors which is why they never signed him. Obviously he had to omit that little detail when approaching other pro teams later. And if the pro contract implies that you will represent the team in tournaments you already fully well know that you aren't allowed to play in, what is it if not lying?
Aren't VACs for life anyways so when they happened is irrelevant?
Comment has been collapsed.
It's a VAC to an account not to him. And Valve should not have found out about the account in the first place.
Also, I believe he fully disclosed the ban to the team as well.
Comment has been collapsed.
The ban spreads to all your accounts. You do realize that Valve really knows every account ever created on Steam for a very clear reason?
I read more about it and they signed him a month after first filing the lawsuite and his history was indeed well known even in newspapers. They just went 6 men to be able to play in majors too. The team he played for 1.5 years before benched him for undisclosed reasons.
Comment has been collapsed.
Same name, same address, same phone number, same parents credit card used should be clues.
Comment has been collapsed.
I wonder why he doesn't just create another account with alternate info. Aside from the name, everything is changeable. And even the name, he could just ask a friend to create an account for him in their name... Even if he pays his friend for it, this has to be cheaper than 70k€...
Comment has been collapsed.
Because that would most likely further damage his chances of ever competing in the majors? This should have been done back when he created his friend's account with the friend's info instead.
Comment has been collapsed.
Why would it? I mean, OK, now that the world knows he's banned of course it's not feasible anymore. But instead of suing, had he just borrowed a friend's account, who would have checked?
Comment has been collapsed.
Because Valve knows and when completely different person appears to play in the majors they obviously notice the difference. Valve is the one putting the VAC ban on him and rest of the world can just ignore it if they want. So he's won national championships etc here, but since Valve runs all the majors they can ban you for anything they want including stuff nobody else would know about. Majors have a prize pool of $1 million so they might be bit more strict about giving money to fake named players.
You need to use the fake information for the accounts you are going to cheat with right at the start and keep them separate from your real account which stays clean so you can become a real pro.
Comment has been collapsed.
Valve runs all the majors
Oh I wasn't aware of that, I thought those were organized by independent entities 👀
Comment has been collapsed.
Well me neither before I read about all of this :)
Comment has been collapsed.
In fact, majors were all organized by independent entities in the past. Valve was just a major sponsor of the events.
Comment has been collapsed.
Right you are, but being both the main sponsor and in full control of the game they get to dictate how it's run.
Comment has been collapsed.
Interesting to know that he gave up his real info when he was just a teenager. There was no reason for him to do that basically.
Comment has been collapsed.
Except being a teenager with no clue is enough reason to do stuff. I have absolutely no knowledge of what information he used but it's quite obvious that it was enough to clearly identify him. Maybe he didn't want to risk parent's cc with fake information, maybe he just wanted so much to play with friends in LAN already that he skipped any thought process, maybe he just was a honest young man who didn't want to cheat anything unlike his friend.
Comment has been collapsed.
Fair enough. Well, I guess time will help us to find out :P
Comment has been collapsed.
Obviously he had to omit that little detail when approaching other pro teams later.
Just to clarify, ENCE knew very well about the banned account so there was no need for Jamppi to hide it. I remember when rumours were Jamppi was set to join them, and everyone thinking "ENCE must hate playing in the major." Jamppi also admitted it to other, pre-OG, teams in the past, which is why they were reluctant to sign him. Though to my knowledge he did always claim it wasn't his account [anymore]; which seems to be true given the court's statement in my other comment.
I think it's likely ENCE thought Jamppi had a case here, or at the very least that they weren't bothered about playing the major. They had been in a slump, so regular events might have been enough for them. For now.
Aren't VACs for life anyways so when they happened is irrelevant?
It does a little bit, in that sense that Valve allows VAC banned players to participate at majors for other VAC-enabled games. So for example, a VAC ban from 2010 obviously won't hinder a CS:GO pro. Several CS:GO champions have had banned 1.6/Source accounts in the past. I remember rumours that Jamppi's ban was from Source as well, but I highly doubt that considering Valve's stance.
Comment has been collapsed.
How did his lawyers mess this up so bad?
33854€ for his own lawyers.
Seems like his lawyers should be paying him for completely ruining his case by suing the wrong company.
Comment has been collapsed.
They sued the wrong company from the wrong country in the wrong country under the wrong law in a case that makes absolutely no sense to anyone. That's what he wanted himself and lawyers do everything you ask them to as long as you keep paying. Now they are filing an appeal to keep piling the bills up.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, now he can sue his lawyers. Hopefully for him, using better lawyers 🙃
Comment has been collapsed.
In an US court no doubt, because that's where they failed to take his first case.
Comment has been collapsed.
That was pretty sweet, getting rid of aleksib and buying a VAC banned player in his place.
Karma is a bitch.
Comment has been collapsed.
Poor kid /S
I'm highly against cheating in online games and when you're a pro player you should be held to an even higher standard. I always get a kick out of the excuses such as "lent to a friend" as most of time it's just clear bullshit. And as for the times it's legit that's just tough shit as they shouldn't have let their friend use their account.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yea, totally not as graceful as your private giveaways XD
And welcome to my Blacklist ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
Aww, did you imagine someone cares about the fucks that random leechers give? We already know that the only thing you care about is how dudes look so how about looking at gay porn instead of pro gaming for good looking ones?
Comment has been collapsed.
Isn't that your job when you try to beg for fucks without giving one back? Yeah I would laugh too if my life was that sad since it would be the only positive thing in it.
Comment has been collapsed.
No need to argue with his frivolous attitude. Why would we care about what he says when he doesn't even seem to care about others. Plus, I have taken my action against him already ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
Well I seem to have made it go away so job done. There was never any need or caring involved, just making fun of. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
He plays for ENCE (currently top 25 in the world) for like 7 months now. He's only banned from Valve organized tournaments. He's free to participate in all the others. And there are like 20 times more non-Valve tournaments than the Valve ones. When ENCE wants to play a Valve organized tournament they just replace him for that one event.
He sued Valve only because OG didn't sign him because logic.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's sad. Maybe if Valve losed they would re-think their policy of zero-tolerance to legit users...
Comment has been collapsed.
There should be at least some kind of leeway for kids doing stupid stuff. Like if you cheated when <15yo and it has been 5 years since with a clean record you get pardoned. If you keep cheating as an adult then you really are a lost cause.
Comment has been collapsed.
Valve used to have a policy where cheats would be banned for a specific time length of time, then had the VAC removed from the account, back when Steam was first released. It didn't last too long before they realised this was a waste of time so the zero tolerance policy was brought in.
Comment has been collapsed.
More like they figured out that permanent bans mean more accounts created with more CS:GOs bought for them in the long run.
Comment has been collapsed.
When they went zero tolerance was about 8 years or so before CSGO was even released.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well then you just replace GO with 1.6, source or whatever billions of versions it's had :)
Comment has been collapsed.
You also have to take in the fact that Steam back then wasn't like it is now with millions of accounts and 10's of thousands of games, no items for sale on the market. In fact you couldn't buy games on Steam, you brought them on discs from retail shops who offered little discount if you got any 16 or 17 years ago.
I've heard the Valve bans so they can sell more games for years but back in the first few years of Steam/Valve/VAC this wasn't the case.
Valve didn't start going into overdrive cash grabbing mode really until around 2010/2012 when it started to become more like the platform it is today.
I do miss those early days of Steam at times. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
That's how I ended up on Steam. Before that I was all "But I want to own my own games and get a nice box etc" so I waited until Civilization V was sold as Complete edition with a nice discount of 20€ on DVD vs 50€ on Steam. But of course it just had the Steam installer files on the DVD so I was still forced to join. But then it turned out to be so easy and simple that I just forgot all my grievances especially when you can get a ton for free.
That's the illusion many people seem(ed) to have, that early Steam was somehow a humanitarian organization that deeply cared about people for anything other than their wallets. More like they grew big enough without any competition to be able to show their true colors.
I remember laughing at how stupid an online launcher for just Half-Life&co sounded back then but I also remember the days when piracy was done by copying a cassette tape so I'm much more fond of the current days :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Maybe people should learn that their actions have consequences? There are quite a lot of people happily cheating. They are well aware of what might happen.
Why should be violators be pardoned in expense of legit players?
Comment has been collapsed.
Because that learning is what made them not cheat any more for years? Kids are foolish and do foolish things. Do you really think people should be punished for life for something they did when 10yo?
Comment has been collapsed.
If someone is a professional player and acutally gets money by this yes.
If it's just regular steam players, I'm fine with the current VAC system that removes the ban after 5 years or so. All in all I am so tired of cheaters in multiplayer videogames, I barely have mood to play them. Like Rainbow6 for example, every map you see at least 30-50 player being banned for cheating. And every match at least there's one player who is so obviously cheating. At the end of the round they can even spam the "how to raise bot difficulty", "too easy terrorist hunt" and so on. They can spam, they can piss others off on purpose and cheat. I don't care if it's a kid or an adult. They are ruining the game of legit players, those players also paid for the game, and did not violate anything.
Yes kids are foolish and do foolish things, but the fact of the matter is cheating is out of hand now. I don't remember struggling against this large amount of cheaters 5 years ago. in online multplayers.
And maybe by the fact of there are actions and consequences are good for kids? They learn that there are certain things they cannot do, because they won't get pardoned, there are actual consequences.
Comment has been collapsed.
Why not just an instant death sentence for cheating then? That would solve your problems quite easily.
Comment has been collapsed.
It solves the problems of cheating once and for all and other kids would learn to not cheat. Since that is your most important concern why would you have any issues with it? It's good for the cheaters since it's an actual consequence. That it's way over the line in proportion to the crime committed was also irrelevant.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you are unable to come up with reasons always exaggerate and be demagogic :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Nice that you figured out that exaggerating a silly problem to have lifetime consequences is silly.
Comment has been collapsed.
Are you able to follow sentences? A lifetime ban from a game is not the same as life sentence. Don't exaggerate and don't be demagogic. The two things you are trying to connect does not have to do anything with each other.
At that stage when they started playing, they were aware of that if they cheat, they get banned.
Why are you defending them so hard and so much? Do you have something under your sleeve?
People who cheat not once, but for months even sometimes for a year in a game, happily ruin other people's round and matches. They get banned from that game forever if they get caught. That's how it should work, if you clearly violate rules on purpose you should get banned. There's no accident or anything here that can be forgotten. It's action and consequence. Why should someone be pardoned? Because they are sorry? Every single one of them is sorry after they get banned, but they are not sorry towards other players who lost opportunities or games towards them, they are sorry because they wan't unban, so it's a total selfishness again.
Comment has been collapsed.
You are the one who started exaggerating, I was merely pointing it out by taking it even further.
Who am I defending exactly? 10-15yo kids? Yeah I'm sure they are the most evil group of people not worth of any defense. What on Earth do you imagine my sleeves contain when I don't even play those stupid games?
Does your legal system really punish 10yo kids as adults as you seem to deem fit? What part of learning their lesson and not cheating for several years was beyond your comprehension?
Just take a deep breath and calm down.
Comment has been collapsed.
'Merely' by death sentece, yeah sure.
I think you are the one needs to be calmed down, because you really did jump on the topic to defend them, despite voicing it how you don't care, sure :)
What is exaggerating in that, if you violate a rules in a game for an extensive amount of time, you should be banned and removed from that game? From 1 game. Not from all games, not from everywhere, just on game that you are no longer allowed to play in multiplayer, because you did cheat.
Tell me, why should they be allowed to play again that game? Just because they are sorry? They aren't. They are sorry they got caught, but thats a major difference. Let's say they cheat for around 1000-2000 hours, because that's how inefficent VAC is, they get caught, get unbanned, what makes them not cheat again, if there's no consequence to their actions? What is the consequence if they get pardoned?
Kids are stupid yes, kids do dumb shit yes, but here's the deal. A videogame is not real life, comparing real life punishments towards virtual punishments are very stupid and demagogic.
What's the big deal of being banned from one videogame? Is that the end of the life for them? Nope. There are thousands of games they can play, if they intend to play them legitly. However not that one where they did violate the rules.
It's just really sad to see nowadays that cheaters get hardly defended, in the expensse of players who play legit.
Comment has been collapsed.
Here's the real deal: there are cheaters IRL, so should virtual games mirror that reality or lie to obfuscate it?
There's no point in looking for a reason why a cheater should be allowed to play again a game he cheated: games are meant to be played, that's enough. If a cheater cheats again, just increase the duration of the ban each time... (ex: 30 days at first, then x2 each time make the 5th cheat worth a 480-days ban)
Comment has been collapsed.
Because all crimes and punishments have expiration dates in real legal systems. If videogames aren't that important why are you the one raging here about them? You're the one jumping on my topic attacking kids everywhere just because you seem to hate them.
Nobody is defending cheaters, why is that so hard to get? I only mentioned cheaters who have seen the light and stopped cheating for several years. So they have served their sentence and should be considered free again. It's more sad to see adults raging that kids should be punished for life for something foolish they did. Read this slowly and carefully again: they haven't cheated for years. Not just said sorry or made another account to cheat on like everyone else but actually stopped cheating because they learned their lesson. So your argument is that they should be taught that learning the lesson is meaningless since the punishment is for life, so they should just continue cheating with new accounts instead. Was that really your intention or do you just not think things through?
Also WTF has demagogy have to do with this? Do you even know what the word means? You're the one who's trying to override logical arguments with your feelings of rage.
Comment has been collapsed.
Crimes and punishments do not have expiration dates. Sentences can be served, but it won't expire. It's always in your criminal record.
"Read this slowly and carefully again: they haven't cheated for years. Not just said sorry or made another account to cheat on like everyone else but actually stopped cheating because they learned their lesson"
Where was this written in this topic?
You are just now making up shit. Talking about cheaters who are now the good guys, calling me kid hater, rager and so on. I don't think you are aware of what raging means.
I think you are just pure stupid or refuse to understand what someone might say and instead of bringing up arguments you become personal and attack the person instead and coming up delisional aspects.
I'm done, don't have time and energy to reason with people who are so stubborn that they make up shit to justify their views.
Comment has been collapsed.
Actual justice systems do have expiration dates. If you live in a 3rd world country without one then I feel sorry for you. Here murder is the only crime that never goes old.
Where was it written? How about right where you jumped in to rage rage rage!
There should be at least some kind of leeway for kids doing stupid stuff. Like if you cheated when <15yo and it has been 5 years since with a clean record you get pardoned. If you keep cheating as an adult then you really are a lost cause.
I'm not making any shit up, you're the one trying to feed it to me and then whining that it tastes bad when I just return it to you.
You're the one going all personal and stupid about this, not me. I don't have a single interest invested in any of this unlike your very personal rage.
So yeah, go take those deep breaths and calm down like I already suggested.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh boy you are quite a person.
It's amazing how you are on that high horse looking down at people. Shaming people calling them out for being 3rd world countries and so on; so you can look down at them. This is really a pathetic behavior :(
Someone disagrees with you, then your mindset is he must be raging. In reality it is not the case, but I understand why you are keep rotating around this idea. Because then you can pretend yourself to be that high horse person who is smarter and reprimands the other due to behavior. Every single neckbeard weeb who lives in a nest does this. Is there a training course for this 'argument' type or is it natural.
However the fact that you seem to go very personal and all out towards someone, makes me realise that you do rage. I do suggest for you to try to calm down. Clean your room, do something that diverts your attention from your major rage that you are having.
Comment has been collapsed.
So thinking that kids should get a pardon instead of a life sentence if they have shown that they have learned their lesson is being on a high horse. How high are you?
Yes your attitude most closely resembles raging. "My enjoyment of these stupid games was destroyed by evil cheating kids so I must destroy the kids!", what do you call that then? Logical thinking? Is there a training course for this 'raging' type or is it natural?
I'm always calm and happy to show people how they are wrong. Why would that make me rage in any way? Are you now so bitter after I busted you for not even reading my comment that you answered? "Where is it written??!!"! "Riight there?" "Boohoo you're on a high horse rage rage rage!". You're the one with personal attacks being left as your only arguments. Just look in a mirror or something.
Comment has been collapsed.
Man it's okay. Calm down. Have some rest, no need to be upset at people. Clean your room, change your attitude (hopefully a girl will talk with you so dating games won't be needed).
Comment has been collapsed.
And what do we have left when you run out of arguments and get proven wrong? Silly suggestions that have nothing to do with reality. I already slept a full night, I'm not upset at anyone, why would I be? I never expected anything from you and you lived to those expectations. My apartment doesn't need more cleaning right now, my attitude of logical thinking will never change (and I talk to girls daily unlike you because you imagine it's something special and mysterious).
So at least you seem to have calmed down, I guess no more nightmares about 10yo kids cheating your life from you?
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm giving you the same back to show you how foolish it is. But instead of learning the lesson to not do it, you only see it as wrong when I do it and right when you do it. And then you cry because I can do it far better than you. Still only more of your fantasies based on your own pitiful life that you're trying to project on me, is that the only argument you have left? Your mom doesn't count as a girl and I have no desire to talk to her so there is nothing at all you could give me. Why would I even get upset about winning an argument?
You really are cute when you pretend that someone believes you. ^_^
Let's not forget this classic moment where you barged in to rage at me for defending cheaters :D
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/Bms14YU
Where was this written in this topic?
You are just now making up shit.
Did you really break that badly from a single mistake that you could have just admitted to instead of making more of a fool of yourself?
Comment has been collapsed.
Sure you do.
You are so hogh on your oen horse and you think you literally shit the world, you ate incapable of thinking with a straight head.
The only fool here is you, how hardly you are on stand by to respond to anything and how hard you fight while looking down at people and thinking how smart you are. That's so sad.
Just go back and play your cringy anime dating games ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
Where did the evil furry anime game playing kid touch you to break you so badly? If you want sad just look at your own Steam profile. You probably imagine it's witty and fun or something. I don't need any high horses or fighting, I'm merely pointing out to you how silly and sad you act.
Just go back to losing to kids in silly shooter games and then blaming cheating for it. At least then you have an excuse for losing.
Comment has been collapsed.
Honestly speaking you are just as toxic as cheaters, so I really understand why you are sword fighting for them.
Comment has been collapsed.
Wow, a answer after 1 year.... :-D
He is perma suspended, so he will not see your answer.
Comment has been collapsed.
bet your loving the football score right now and don't waste your time cheaters are only angry when they get found out
Comment has been collapsed.
Crimes and punishments do not have expiration dates. Sentences can be served, but it won't expire. It's always in your criminal record.
Well, actually... 😋
Where I live they do 'expire' at some point. But some take longer than others for obvious reasons.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well you live in one of the few other countries that can be counted as civilized as the Nordic countries with some extra benefits. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm fine with the current VAC system that removes the ban after 5 years or so
VAC bans are permanent though, even after 16 years.
Comment has been collapsed.
More interesting question is - why legit players should be banned without right to appeal?
Comment has been collapsed.
Certainly
Steam's behaviour so stiff they don't even change the VAC ban status even it is obvious your account is hacked.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ha, when it was hacked they at least have some reason for VAC.
Comment has been collapsed.
:)
I never thought like that
But if my car is stolen and then used in a crime should I be punished for that?
Comment has been collapsed.
But then again, if you own a gun, and it's stolen and used in a crime - you will be punished.
But same as with the gun example, that punishment for the hacked person should be the same as for the cheater itself.
Comment has been collapsed.
Could you share a referrence for that?
I check online but websites mostly claim the opposite.
Websites didn't seem too professional though
Comment has been collapsed.
I googled it, and it seems to be indeed different in different countries. In my country we have article 264 of the criminal code:
Стаття 264. Недбале зберігання вогнепальної зброї або бойових припасів
Недбале зберігання вогнепальної зброї або бойових припасів, якщо це спричинило загибель людей або інші тяжкі наслідки, -
карається обмеженням волі на строк до трьох років або позбавленням волі на той самий строк.
Google translate:
Article 264. Careless storage of firearms or ammunition
Careless storage of firearms or ammunition if this has resulted in death or other serious consequences, -
shall be punishable by restriction of liberty for a term up to three years or imprisonment for the same term.
It seems in US you are not liable if someone stole your gun and killed someone. What a great country to live...
Comment has been collapsed.
So that is why I couldn't find suitable answers.
Whenever I search something it acts as if I am either from India or US :D
Comment has been collapsed.
Here you get punished if you carelessly stored it in an unlocked cabinet and together with ammo since law has requirements for safe storage. But at worst that will lead to you losing the permits or getting a fine and it's not related at all to what is done with the guns later. In USA it's perfectly fine to store your assault rifles in your baby's crib and then act all surprised when something happens.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have a VAC ban even I didn't cheat.
I red some people got VAC ban just because they had some video capture pograms.
I also wish Valve didn't have no shit given approach but really checked the cases.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have a VAC ban even I didn't cheat.
Comment has been collapsed.
best vac ban i know of personally is a friend who uses a key re-mapper because of a hand disability for some games that wont let you remap keys. got a vac ban from one of those free to play shooter games, forgot what its was called. what was the name of the shooter everybody was playing before apex?
Comment has been collapsed.
Before Apex there were Fortnite and BUPG but I don't think these are what you are looking for.
Comment has been collapsed.
Did it happen recently?
I red about some people who gave solid proff and their ban has removed.
A hand disability seems pretty legit
Comment has been collapsed.
it was some time ago.
rage quit the game hard, i dont think she will ever go back
Comment has been collapsed.
Sad to hear that.
Also, did that thing in the pic really happen? O_O
Comment has been collapsed.
well im unsure this is real, ive seen much worse.
the way he falls makes me assume it fake tho, wouldn't share if i thought it was
Comment has been collapsed.
If I remember correct a VAC ban effects all the other games with VAN protection so if she has a chance to clear her name she should try to, in case she might want to play another game in the future.
Comment has been collapsed.
So looking at your profile, your cousin cheated using your account? Or did he install cheats on your PC?
Comment has been collapsed.
It was his computer.
He told me he didn't cheat.
He is carzy but I don't think he is that crazy.
Comment has been collapsed.
TL;DR Don't cheat, it's cheaper, plus over time you can get real skilled.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think cheating should be vac-bannable, but vac should only block you from multiplayer. Not from using/selling items/buying games/anything they block etc.
Comment has been collapsed.
https://twitter.com/Jamppicsgo/status/1354067097446477824
Hope he gets a fresh start there
Comment has been collapsed.
For that he paid 44650€ for Valve's and 33854€ for his own lawyers
....what?
That's an insane sum. I wish I had that much money to burn
Comment has been collapsed.
Honestly, Valve should just make VAC bans expire after several years, as opposed to being permanent. I think most cheaters are kids and stop cheating as adults, or idiots that made a stupid mistake once. I know they hide VAC bans after 7 years, but unfortunately the bans still show up everywhere else (due to the web API). Creating a new account is not a solution for everyone. Imagine having thousands of games on that account.
Comment has been collapsed.
https://www.essentiallysports.com/esports-news-csgo-star-player-elias-jamppi-olkkonen-takes-legal-action-against-valve/
https://win.gg/news/4765/jamppi-sued-the-wrong-valve-company-after-being-banned
Today the district court reached a verdict that they don't have any jurisdiction over Valve in either Germany or USA so won't do anything at all. For that he paid 44650€ for Valve's and 33854€ for his own lawyers. He sued German Valve GmbH, which was founded a year later than his VAC ban, for damages of 260k€ because he missed a deal with OG. Meanwhile he managed to sneak a 2 year contract with Finnish ENCE who are now complaining that they have to play with alternative roster since Jamppi still can't play. All this because a cheater kid never figured out to just get another Steam account and rebuy CS:GO for 5 bucks like regular people or a pro team couldn't check out Steam profile before signing a contract.
Comment has been collapsed.