[Steam] Pinball FX3 Bethesda Pinball 70% off (3,29€)

TLDR at the bottom.

I'm saying this should be sold as a package, and although you said to leave the value aside, that's what bothers me the most, because if each dlc was 10 cents, it would've been a different story if the total would've not went over $30 total for instance. So I wouldn't care if they had a million dlc's and they figured out how to price them so it comes to under $60, or in my case around $30 considering this is a 6 year old game. If they want to keep putting out tables for a 6 year old game, that's on them. If they want to keep porting tables from fx2 and fx to it that's that. Imo this should've been handled completely differently. A package would've made more sense, and if they add new things, add them to the package, but keep it's price the same or adjust it for how many years the game has been out. There's a reason why you end up buying doom 1993 for like $1.25 on sale or $5 without a sale and there's thousands of mods that work for it, different maps, complete overhauls, etc. I ain't gonna buy the indiana jones table and turn it into the bugs bunny one with a mod or any other variation.

I did say if there were that many different things about the tables that they should make them individual games, but again, this would make no sense as you also state they are running the same engine. Part of why I say these are easier to make than an AAA since at the core they are using the exact same thing and at the end result they are not that different in functionality. I only said they should sell them as individual titles if they really were that different, but they aren't. Just because they're themed differently doesn't change the core mechanics of pinball they have implemented or the fx engine which is used for every single table, which is the exact same across every single table. So in a sense, it was more like a trap suggestion for them to make them individual games, because that's not a proper solution instead of what they should really do, but they are too greedy to do it.

My full game concept refers to everything they have put on steam under the pinball fx3 appid, unless you want to include fx2, but I consider those separate games, although they have ported maps from fx2 to fx3 so we're basically threading a fine line with this too, since they're basically remakes with additional content. When you look at a game like cyberpunk for instance, a full game concept to me means the game + all it's playable dlc's available. That's the full package for me. I don't look at this and expect witcher 3 to be included in it, because even though they probably use a version of the same engine with some major modifications, it's not listed on the cyberpunk 2077 page as available dlc for cyberpunk 2077. They're listed as separate games and I think the differences between the two and the work involved in either project can be spotted miles apart. The tables in fx3 are listed as dlc's to a complete game and they look very similar and its hard for me to assume that as much work as goes into 12 fx tables could ever go into making something like cyberpunks phantom liberty dlc for instance.

To reinforce that these are part of the same package even to the developers and they don't look at them as individual titles, the achievements they have on steam (although I am no achievement collector) are regarding the different dlc's. Therefore, without what they themselves, the game makers and releasers of dlc tables, consider the full package themselves, you couldn't complete all achievements in this game. So you would have to buy them all to complete this game, the game is fx3, they can call it a platform but it's just a platform, because it isn't gonna play ping pong for me and tennis, it plays pinball, with their specific rules. For them all to cost $91 at 70% off for a 6 year old game not including the dlc that wasn't even on sale, I don't see why it's surprising I find this ridiculous. Like the developers know fully well what they are doing. If if was so much effort to make a table, they could've released a workshop editor for it, and you would have seen hundreds(but there's another reason why that's not a thing), hence why I hinted at an off steam platform for this, called visual pinball with over 3000 tables if I'm correct, some old, ported, licensed and some made by fans.

So yes, to me the complete package, means anything that expands the base game with content. So Pinball fx3, the f2p version comes with one table I think (steam's down so I can't check), so that's the base f2p game, fine, that's cool it's like a demo, that's no platform, otherwise steam wouldn't even allow it on steam if it didn't come with anything, it would be in software not games, so that's how they played that system, which is cool cause they offer a table for free to play. But the other ones are not individual games, they're just tables done from a prefab that's already been done, and they might have added for some minor functionality here and there. As I mentioned before, this kind of functionality is in general given for free, if you consider the no mans sky patches, cyberpunk's 2.0 mod or whatever, etc. Those are just called love updates. I'm just calling them out for being greedy and shady, and pointing out how it's a bad deal imo. I'm actually surprised there are some who like this. Even fateofone underneath said it was kind sketchy that he'd have to pay $40 for the same tables from fx2 to fx3 with the legacy discount.

TLDR: By full game concept I mean the main game and any playable dlc/s listed on the main game page or linked to it that is dependent on the main game. Sorry if I wrote too much.

Comment #1

"It's fine if you're not ok with the price, it's more about trying to make you understand that each table is its own game, so if the only reasoning behind the price complain is that you feel the entire package is like a single game, that's just a bad take.

They're not copy&pasted as you say. I haven't seen a single element from one table into another, each table has different mechanics and scoring systems, each table has its own quest/mission system, display animations, music, VO, minigames. All the logic behind a table needs to be programmed, and these tables are quite complex. Different tables have different physics. This is specially noticeable with the Williams tables, which take some time to get used to if you've only played the others, as their physics feel very different."

Interesting, but I don't know how much of this holds true. These are elements they are unlikely writing code from scratch again. I'm sure they are introducing a whole graphical element for the table that matched the license they bought, still just moving some holes around and the points they give isn't mindblowing. Put a hole down, assign it a point value next, how much time can this take? I would give them the credit they spend most of their time on the visual animations they have to play out, and copy pasting the quest data from chatgpt(this is a joke they probably have an intern write it for free). You also say each table has it's own quest/missions system, but I think what you mean is that all tables have the same one, but the tasks are made for the table at hand. All the logic behind every single table having to be done from scratch every time also makes no sense, as then what's the point of the fx engine? All these tables use the fx engine, they just use different settings for their tables in the engine, not a big deal to change once you have the core done. That's why I questioned their uniqueness because I don't see that much variety in them tbh. So sure, since this is their in house engine, I wouldn't be surprised if every once in a while they add a feature or two that allows functionality for a table, but it's probably going to be used again for another in the future. In general it seems to be if ball hits certain trigger/play animation/trigger event/score increase/roll minigame/continue or whatever. Looking at the table, it's always the same shape. This is all digital, how comes there's no weird shaped pinball tables, I don't really want to give them any ideas, but they're all the exact same shape. So I'm pretty confident when I say they start from a prefab, basically a starting table that has minimally everything needed to just get everything going, and then their engine allows them to easily place elements where they need to. Then they assign textures to said elements, making it looks so different that people think they're all that different, they add a minigame or model or something, and bam new table. How long can this take. Maybe they should put the engine up on the workshop so we can test it out. I mean if it's that hard and that much work, no one will do it.

 "There's nothing missing. You buy some tables, those tables are completely finished and playable from start to end without any missing content. All tables are completely independent, so you're not missing anything when playing one table because you don't own some other."

Yeah but a table is not a game, it's a dlc. So I'd be missing the other tables to complete my game, which is fx3. Otherwise if this was just the engine, it would be in the software section on steam, but it's in the games section. Also, I can't use it to make my own table and sell it on steam, so technically what they're giving as the base is just a launcher with no game, although they were forced to add a table to it for free, or steam would've probably deleted them for playing extra dirty.

"So now you're complaining that they ported the fx2 tables to fx3?" 

I'm just saying they could've added them to the base game, there was no need to release them as new dlc, since they weren't new content.

"I've never said I'm good at it. I only dedicated time to 3 tables, and focused hard on two of them (one of the Star Wars ones, and one of the classic ones, an adventure themed, not licensed, one). Still I wasn't able to get to the end, but it was vey memorable. I still remember some bits. My pinball experience has been in real life pinball more than in videogames. Sadly, there're many games I think are great I haven't had the time to dedicate to them. I have BG3 still there, waiting to be finished. Does that mean BG3 is a bad game? No, I just want to play more games I have time for."

I mean ok, but then this only reinforces my theory that people really play this for some quick fun, which is exactly what I'd do, rather than as hardcore pinball table solvers. So maybe there's an issue with the genre. Once again, looking at youtube playthrough/walkthrough results, no one played a single table for that many hours, or no one found any value in doing so. Like no one wants for showing/teaching/entertainment purposes to finish a table from 0 to 100%. I also don't know what the quests exactly are so I wouldn't know how to look up pinball fx3 star wars table quest defeat lord vader, if that's even a thing. So in the end, like I said, these aren't really 30 hours pinball tables, they just have inflated times for the purpose of dragging the time by, kinda like clicker games, but probably the same reason no one wants to record/watch a clicker game walkthrough for 50 hours.

"If you just want simpler pinball games, then buy those instead? Why being interested in a complex one, with complex mechanics and mission systems that you'll need time to learn, then? Of course, a simple pinball where you just randomly hit the ball and you score points without having to do anything special is going to be cheaper, and better if you just want a quick game. I personally get bored extremely fast of those."

This is not a bad argument, I still don't understand the complexity of it, I mean you can see most people would agree with me. 4600 reviews on steam the base free game with the free table, but way less than 100 reviews average per dlc. So people aren't actually playing the individual tables, but they are playing the f2p game or maybe just sitting in the menu and that's fun enough for some? I'll continue in the comment #2.